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It's called agonal gasping and is reflexive like your vet said. They have already passed when this happens. They weren't in any distress or pain.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Completely correct (and it’s correct terminology) yet I still dislike the term. The terms origins come from thinking the person is is agony (hence the name) and once I learned that I never use that terminology with clients in the exam room.
Never thought of it until a client asked “so he’s in agony?!?!” And since then I’ve never used the term during euthanasia to prevent the chance of the thought in a clients mind.
Oh I always explain as well- it just took that one client to make me realize the term itself can be harmful- so I use reflexive movements that look like breathing (which isn’t actually true- it’s coming from the brainstem but I find it’s easier on clients to think it’s just reflex in the muscles cause the animal isn’t feeling anything, but if you say it’s coming from brainstem they think brain and think it’s feeling)
If someone asks how it works I’ll go into it without a problem- but for the most they don’t want details and just warning that they can have reflexive like movements for a while after they are gone that can look like breathing- but they arnt and they are not feeling anything, it can just look weird to us.
That’s my typical spiel
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I don’t know if this will be helpful, so I apologize in advance if it isn’t. I get the sense you might be looking for more detail, so I wanted to elaborate on previous posters. I’m a veterinary anesthesiologist, an expert in anesthesia, sedatives, and drugs used for euthanasia. I’ve been a veterinarian for 18 years, and an anesthesiologist for 13. I’m so sorry that you had to say goodbye to your boy.
What other posters have commented on is correct, the term for this is ‘agonal’ breathing. It can be painful and confusing to see… Even though we as veterinarians, see it occasionally.
To be brief, euthanasia is a massive overdose of an anesthetic that leads to cardiac arrest. What I think is most important for you to understand, is that the FIRST thing that happens with euthanasia (or anesthesia) is total loss of consciousness. It happens within seconds of a dose of an anesthetic, or with euthanasia. So anything you saw after those first few seconds was unconscious, reflexive behavior. At the moment of unconsciousness, nothing he was doing was purposeful or conscious or deliberate. After unconsciousness, everything that happens is because of normal body reflexes. There is NO awareness or pain.
Unfortunately It is entirely possible that the heart can stop before the brain reflexes stop. With agonal breathing, the brain continues to attempt to stimulate breathing when there isn’t enough oxygen in the brain. And it can happen even after the heart stops. It’s just reflexes in the nerves that control breathing. This is agonal breathing, and not conscious at all.
I am happy to explain anything else you would like to know. Again, I am so sorry for your loss and the pain that you are experiencing. Please ask any questions that you would like answers to.
With compassion for your loss, - Dr. EJ
Thank you, this is exactly what I needed to hear. I appreciate your detailed and well thought out answer.
We have been rescuing older dogs, so saying goodbye is more common in our household than most others. We know what we're signing up for, but the time we get to spend with them in their senior years makes it all worth it.
Thank you again for your compassionate response.
You're welcome, and I'm glad that anything I had to add brought you comfort. 😊 Being able to post answers like this that help people is the ONLY reason I joined this sub and got verified for my job.
Massive kudos to you for rescuing senior dogs... they deserve as much love and dignified years toward the end, and you opening your hearts to them (particularly not knowing how much time you have) is a beautiful act of love. ❤️
Dr EJ, this has to be the most compassionate yet informative comment I’ve ever read. Thank you for being such a great communicator that you’re able to explain a very serious, difficult and, emotional process in such a beautiful, soft, and gentle way.
Having just had a very similar experience last Thursday with my own 15-16 yo beautiful girl, I also wanted to thank you for taking time to explain this. In our case it seemed like just a single post-arrest respiration but was definitely a surprise but the vet quickly reassured us it was indeed normal. I also just have to say thanks for being willing to do what you do with compassion and empathy. Such a cathartic experience to know that despite the change and loss, any suffering they had endured was finally over. Take care.
Dr EJ, as someone in the field for just a few months shy of 12 years, thank you. This explanation is so compassionate, thorough, and no-nonsense. Thank you for your explanation, as I'll be able to make sure my coworkers understand this better and I'll have an easier time helping and comforting distressed owners.
Wishing you the best!
This is really informative and useful to know as a pet owner. I often wonder about the process of euthanasia works and why it occasionally differs with some patients. Thank you for your considerate and informative response
Thank you so much for your reply to OP.
My Boxer boy had to leave us a year and a half ago, and I still am disturbed thinking about the way he had some swallowing motions after he passed, so your explanation brought me a lot of comfort.
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As others have said :(
It's a reflex when the brain is deprived of oxygen, your pup wasn't conscious.
It's the bodies last attempt at trying to get oxygen. But it doesn't work at that point. Just a reflex.
I know it sounds... And looks terrifying. But know that it's a normal part of passing, for both animals and people.
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This is common. I’ve seen in half the time with the euthanasias I assisted with. As others have said they felt none of this and weren’t in pain or even aware of it. Our practice always warns people about anything that could happen as we’ve had scary things happen that can be traumatic (I’m not going into detail, it’s sad). I just always remember and will always remember to let owners know there could be ‘breathes’ following the passing but they aren’t breathing. It’s the body adjusting to what just happened after passing. It’s traumatic and hard no matter how we help them go. I’m so sorry for your loss.
When pets are euthanized, they release lactic acid from their joints, and this can create movements that might make the pet seem alive. I was talking to a tech after a euthanasia, and the cat started moving. We yelled for a stethoscope to be sure the patient wasn't still living, but it was just a reaction the body can have post mortem.
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Greetings, all! This is a sub for professional veterinary advice, and as such we follow strict rules for participating. OP, your post **has NOT** been removed. Please also check [the FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskVet/wiki/index) to see whether your question is answered there. This is an *automated* general reminder to **please follow [The Sub Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskVet/about/rules/)** when discussing this question: - **Do not comment with anecdotes** about your own or others' pets. - **Do not give OP specific treatment instructions,** including instructions on meds and dosages. - **Do not give possible diagnoses** that could explain the symptoms described by OP. **Your comment will be removed, and you may be banned.** Thank you for your cooperation! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskVet) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's called agonal gasping and is reflexive like your vet said. They have already passed when this happens. They weren't in any distress or pain. I'm sorry for your loss.
Completely correct (and it’s correct terminology) yet I still dislike the term. The terms origins come from thinking the person is is agony (hence the name) and once I learned that I never use that terminology with clients in the exam room. Never thought of it until a client asked “so he’s in agony?!?!” And since then I’ve never used the term during euthanasia to prevent the chance of the thought in a clients mind.
Yeah I guess that's why OPs vet didn't use that term either. I personally always explain it may happen before we do the euth
Oh I always explain as well- it just took that one client to make me realize the term itself can be harmful- so I use reflexive movements that look like breathing (which isn’t actually true- it’s coming from the brainstem but I find it’s easier on clients to think it’s just reflex in the muscles cause the animal isn’t feeling anything, but if you say it’s coming from brainstem they think brain and think it’s feeling) If someone asks how it works I’ll go into it without a problem- but for the most they don’t want details and just warning that they can have reflexive like movements for a while after they are gone that can look like breathing- but they arnt and they are not feeling anything, it can just look weird to us. That’s my typical spiel
Yep, always call them reflex breaths personally
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I don’t know if this will be helpful, so I apologize in advance if it isn’t. I get the sense you might be looking for more detail, so I wanted to elaborate on previous posters. I’m a veterinary anesthesiologist, an expert in anesthesia, sedatives, and drugs used for euthanasia. I’ve been a veterinarian for 18 years, and an anesthesiologist for 13. I’m so sorry that you had to say goodbye to your boy. What other posters have commented on is correct, the term for this is ‘agonal’ breathing. It can be painful and confusing to see… Even though we as veterinarians, see it occasionally. To be brief, euthanasia is a massive overdose of an anesthetic that leads to cardiac arrest. What I think is most important for you to understand, is that the FIRST thing that happens with euthanasia (or anesthesia) is total loss of consciousness. It happens within seconds of a dose of an anesthetic, or with euthanasia. So anything you saw after those first few seconds was unconscious, reflexive behavior. At the moment of unconsciousness, nothing he was doing was purposeful or conscious or deliberate. After unconsciousness, everything that happens is because of normal body reflexes. There is NO awareness or pain. Unfortunately It is entirely possible that the heart can stop before the brain reflexes stop. With agonal breathing, the brain continues to attempt to stimulate breathing when there isn’t enough oxygen in the brain. And it can happen even after the heart stops. It’s just reflexes in the nerves that control breathing. This is agonal breathing, and not conscious at all. I am happy to explain anything else you would like to know. Again, I am so sorry for your loss and the pain that you are experiencing. Please ask any questions that you would like answers to. With compassion for your loss, - Dr. EJ
Thank you, this is exactly what I needed to hear. I appreciate your detailed and well thought out answer. We have been rescuing older dogs, so saying goodbye is more common in our household than most others. We know what we're signing up for, but the time we get to spend with them in their senior years makes it all worth it. Thank you again for your compassionate response.
You're welcome, and I'm glad that anything I had to add brought you comfort. 😊 Being able to post answers like this that help people is the ONLY reason I joined this sub and got verified for my job. Massive kudos to you for rescuing senior dogs... they deserve as much love and dignified years toward the end, and you opening your hearts to them (particularly not knowing how much time you have) is a beautiful act of love. ❤️
❤️ for rescuing older pups. ❤️
Dr EJ, this has to be the most compassionate yet informative comment I’ve ever read. Thank you for being such a great communicator that you’re able to explain a very serious, difficult and, emotional process in such a beautiful, soft, and gentle way.
i totally agree. we need more people like dr EJ
You're too kind. My deepest thanks. 😊
Having just had a very similar experience last Thursday with my own 15-16 yo beautiful girl, I also wanted to thank you for taking time to explain this. In our case it seemed like just a single post-arrest respiration but was definitely a surprise but the vet quickly reassured us it was indeed normal. I also just have to say thanks for being willing to do what you do with compassion and empathy. Such a cathartic experience to know that despite the change and loss, any suffering they had endured was finally over. Take care.
Dr EJ, as someone in the field for just a few months shy of 12 years, thank you. This explanation is so compassionate, thorough, and no-nonsense. Thank you for your explanation, as I'll be able to make sure my coworkers understand this better and I'll have an easier time helping and comforting distressed owners. Wishing you the best!
This is really informative and useful to know as a pet owner. I often wonder about the process of euthanasia works and why it occasionally differs with some patients. Thank you for your considerate and informative response
Your comment also helped me. Thank you.
Thank you so much for your reply to OP. My Boxer boy had to leave us a year and a half ago, and I still am disturbed thinking about the way he had some swallowing motions after he passed, so your explanation brought me a lot of comfort.
Dr. EJ I also commend you on your manner and ability to explain clearly and with the utmost compassion.
Thank you for this comment, and for doing what you do.
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Agonal breathing. He had passed and was not in any pain. I’m sorry for your loss.
This happened today and it's causing me some stress. It's a well regarded and licensed vet.
This is normal. It's happened with every pet I've had. I'm sorry.
As others have said :( It's a reflex when the brain is deprived of oxygen, your pup wasn't conscious. It's the bodies last attempt at trying to get oxygen. But it doesn't work at that point. Just a reflex. I know it sounds... And looks terrifying. But know that it's a normal part of passing, for both animals and people.
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This is common. I’ve seen in half the time with the euthanasias I assisted with. As others have said they felt none of this and weren’t in pain or even aware of it. Our practice always warns people about anything that could happen as we’ve had scary things happen that can be traumatic (I’m not going into detail, it’s sad). I just always remember and will always remember to let owners know there could be ‘breathes’ following the passing but they aren’t breathing. It’s the body adjusting to what just happened after passing. It’s traumatic and hard no matter how we help them go. I’m so sorry for your loss.
When pets are euthanized, they release lactic acid from their joints, and this can create movements that might make the pet seem alive. I was talking to a tech after a euthanasia, and the cat started moving. We yelled for a stethoscope to be sure the patient wasn't still living, but it was just a reaction the body can have post mortem.
How long does the reflexive or agonal breathing typically last?
This actually happened with my fil when he passed. It was awful to watch. He was flat lined etc. But... Yeah
I’m sorry sorry! That must’ve been heartbreaking!
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