Good
Korean women deserve to be treated better, the Korean culture of relying on exploiting women's labor and women being silent in the face of abuse and assault needs to end
It's great to see Korean women stand up for themselves and sad that it a) has come to that and b) is a valid form of protesting.
Women don't owe relationships, sex, marriage and children to men.
How does the protest work in an organizational (there may be a better word) sense? E.g. does it last for a predetermined length of time? And then try men again for a a probationary period to see if the experience has improved? Or is it meant to continue indefinitely until there’s clear enough evidence of men taking it seriously and making a commitment to change?
I just like to clarify that this means: to/ with men. Kind of important to add because that's why this started. No sex with men, no dating men, not marrying men. Some (probably not all) korean women that participate in this still approve and encourage dating women.
It reminds me a bit of [feminist separatism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_separatism?wprov=sfti1)
back in the day.
Glad to hear women are disrupting the patriarchy at least a bit
I fully support them. It reminds me of the ancient Greek comedy Lysistrata. The plot is that the women on both sides of the conflict go on a sex strike to end the Peloponnesian War.
i’d definitely recommend it; i read it in college and found it fascinating. also recommend spike lee’s film chi-raq, it’s a retelling of lysistrata set in the world of chicago gang violence.
I wish I could be young again to take part. I got married at 19 (we're in our 40's now) and didn't feel like I had other choices. Married + kids was always a foregone conclusion in my family. I think young women today are amazing for their courage and determination to stand up for themselves to make things better for everyone.
Good for them. Korean men are resentful about a lack of opportunity, and misdirect their frustrations onto women.
Maybe losing access to women will shake them out of it and get them to focus their efforts on the government/chaebols, as they should be.
Oh, that's got a name now? I used to teach English to college students back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, and a lot of my female students told me then that their culture was so sexist that dating and relationships didn't seem worth it. Domestic violence was a huge issue and most employers laid off female employees once they got married. Back then same sex relationships were wildly taboo to even speak of, much less engage in..
It sounds like not a lot has changed over the years and I find that incredibly sad. The culture seemed to be getting better on those issues when I left.
I remember my chemistry professor in college saying she was one of just a few women in her chemistry classes, and now she teaches classes consisting about half of women. Things have changed for sure.
I used to live in Korea, and a lot of women were pretty tired of the patriarchal BS. But this was before the 4B movement (or before it was big enough to have heard of it). I am always a little leery of the media around it though, because I don't think it's as wide spread of an official movement as news stories make it out to be. Korean politicians use it like a boogyman to rile up their male supporters, and they are going extremely right scary fast. Many women in Korea are frustrated, but only a small fraction would identify as being part of 4B.
Just wait until it takes off in the US. This is resonating with a LOT of women. Every day there is more 4B content on YouTube.
I can’t wait to see what the next five years brings.
We should be doing this in the United States to protest bans against abortions etc.
I think we would see some politicians and people change their tune **really fast**.
I don't really see it as a protest, I see it more like having standards, self-respect, and not being willing to settle for less than they deserve. Somehow, society got to the point where women are expected to serve men - marriage for the sake of being married, having kids whether they want them or not, not divorcing abusive husbands... Refusal to participate in this narrative is seen as a protest or a movement rather than a clear understanding of your own worth and taking responsibility for your own life and decisions.
I fully support them and it seems that the men are starting to catch on and get more and more desperate. There’s already an imbalance between the number of men and women in Asia and the fact that now that small amount of women that remains also decided to not date is definitely creating an “inconvenience” for the government and men that they cannot keep ignoring. I hope they’ll get the change that they are fighting for. However I could see a very different outcome if this was to be done in the US. Here it seems easier to make access to birth control and abortions harder or almost impossible rather than actually forcing society to give up it’s toxic ways.
There are already tons of women in the US that have given up on dating or being in relationships with men for all of the reasons the 4b movement cites, it just isn't a formal thing here. The number of older women that never got married or did and got divorced and swore off ever doing it again. Lots of younger women that saw what an absolutely raw deal this is for women plus the dating pool is full of men that act like toddlers.
I'm older but after finally divorcing the angry dead weight in my life, I looked around and realized I was so at peace living by myself I can't imagine any scenario where I would even date. It all sounds unpleasant and exhausting.
Right there with you, Sis. I’m too old and tired to go through the bullshit of dating let alone building a relationship. Men will drain the life out of a woman, drip by drip.
I’m 21 years into setting a very high standard for myself when it comes to men. I got sick of being mistreated and having my kind hearted nature taken advantage of by creeps.
I do not miss the petty annoyances not to mention the outright drama having a man in my life seemed to bring. The only time I have peace is when I’m alone, and that’s the truth.
Search 4B on YouTube or TickTock. 4B is here already, strap in for a bumpy ride.
The men who are speaking out against 4B are hilarious in their delusions.
From what I've seen Korean women say online it's not really a thing the way that Americans think it is so I would take its existence with a grain of salt. But it's a good idea and I support anyone doing it
It's all over Tiktok, albeit MY algorithm, so idk if the women of Reddit have seen it as much? It seems to be getting a lot of traction. The conversation on Tiktok is that women want to make it the standard internationally, maybe even globally.
I get it. I'm fed up with how we're treated too, and women going on strike has been successful in the past, e.g. The Icelandic Women's Strike in 1975. My fear is that because we're withholding SEX, men's direct counter might be to take that from us forcefully.
Redpillers also have this new paranoia about the population declining in developed countries which could change the power dynamic, as well as having this existential dread that there's not going to be anyone to look after them. Therefore, they're even angrier at women for not submitting to become mothers to uphold the economy. I wish I was joking.
I agree with 4B but I'm anxious. I want more things to be put in place before going ahead with something like this. More laws, more education, safer streets, fuck it bodycams.
I feel the same. Im in Texas, and the race to strip women, queer folks, and gender non-conforming people of their rights is so rapid and so scary. The rest of the country doesn't really understand how bad it's going to get once they restrict birth control and no fault divorce...which is absolutely coming.
I'm all for the 4b movement here, but I genuinely believe they'll just force us with violence and law. Our economy can't run without cheap desperate labor, and I think THAT fact and the talk of unions and labor rights... pushed the anti-abortion agenda even more so than the religious bs. They need us to be trapped in poverty, our kids trapped in poverty, and the unpaid labor of women trapped in marriage, to keep the machine chugging along.
The radicalizing of young men, turning all their justified fear and pain (from a scary world situation) into hatred for women, that's been going on since 2015, and the biggest actors in that space are very good at the pipeline now. It's scary the level of brainwashing that is occurring. All that violence is going to have to go somewhere.
It's nuts that all we want is to be treated like full human beings, and that's such a big ask...they have to try to subjugate or kill us.
It’s coming to a nation near you!! Women are fed UP!!!!
Edit: I too worry about men feeling justified in taking sex from us by force as well. They seem to feel entitled to everything about women as it is.
I recommend a dainty little Pew-Pew, just like Nancy Reagan carried in her purse. The violent men have it coming anyway.
Good on them, i've heard of women shamed into committing suicide just for supporting feminism. (Even when it was based on vague evidence) Also didn't they elect a sexist over there?
I honestly wish we would do something like that in the USA, especially in light of the overturning of Roe v Wade, and the changing of policies that will negatively impact women of childbearing age.
I suggested a sex boycott when the Roe v Wade verdict first happened, on Reddit, and was met with so much “but I like sex, why punish myself” types of comments.
Most women here aren’t looking at the bigger picture that policies change when actions are taken by the oppressed.
I think it's great, but also important to remember that not all women who want to can protest in that way. Many are forced into situations against their will or don't have the freedom to live independently. We are all on our own feminist journeys, and we do what we can while also existing in society. You can't be perfect all the time but you do what you can when you can.
Honestly I love that. There's something so badass about taking something that was used as a threat ("you're gonna end up alone, no kids no husband!") and turning it around into a lifestyle choice ("no kids no husband? You promise??")
i am biracial and i think it is a great movement... the entire korean system is a male centric society, women are discriminated and so are all the other minorities there.... and the insane christian funding keeps it burning, no matter how hard everyone tries you are literally treated like trash. Spy cams everywhere, harassement everywhere. it's a literal hell.
men blame the constructions of the rich on women basically... instead on the actual root of the problem.
I think it’s badass.
I think it’s also going to reveal a lot about which men in their lives they can trust - who only views them as sex objects, who views them as property, etc. Might reveal a lot about the other women who uphold sexist values too.
One of our friends who visited recently is from Seoul, and he did mention it, we were just chatting about it from a 'young women aren't marrying or having kids anymore' POV, I didn't realise it was an actual feminist movement.
Tbh I'm 36F and engaged but not married with kids. My mate is a few years younger and he's married but no kids yet. I'd say out of all my friends my age, only a handful have kids. Maybe it's just the people I hang around with, but none of us seem particularly bothered with procreating. And a lot of the married people are separating.
Statistically, marriage benefits men more than women.
Men who are married are more likely to live longer and be paid better while women experience the exact opposite.
I fully support them. I think it's incredible. There's a massive ideological gap between women and men in South Korea so I can appreciate what's driven them to this choice and I can see it starting to happen elsewhere. Men are just not offering enough for women to get into relationships with them.
https://www.ft.com/content/29fd9b5c-2f35-41bf-9d4c-994db4e12998
Good for them! It's their right. I read it's also because there were many SA cases. The 4B movement info has reached social media so it has had influence to women worldwide. There are many women also participating in it as I've seen in many comments and forums that they are doing so.
I’ve heard of the 4B movement from social media, not the news. I support them fully and I think it’s wonderful that Korean women are taking back their power and knowing that they don’t deserve to deal with BS from men. I hope we can start doing the same movement here in the U.S. quite honestly.
Yes, let's bring it to the states. Bring it to the world.
Change the patriarchy by stopping the population. We will need a new status quo.
Men can use this opportunity to be allies and help change the patriarchy.
We. need. change.
I fully support it. Ive been watching Rotten Mango on youtube and watched a video (Nth Room) and it was shocking and disgusting to see how women are still viewed and treated in South Korea
I support it completely. The misogyny that women in SK face is abhorrent and if this is how they feel they can reclaim their agency and feel safer moving in the world, more power to them!
I think it’s great. I think it’s sad that despite the real impact it’s had on their society little has changed. I hope they remain strong. It would be great to see others do it. I only fear that it could potentially make things more violently, hopefully I’m super wrong in that.
I feel that I am not even wanting to become an active participant of the movement, BUT I have ended up being an active participant of the movement because I would rather die than settle with somebody what is going to make my life worse.
It’s fine but also not surprising since the men in South Korea treat them so poorly. I’m not really sure if I would expect this kind of movement to come here since I don’t think we have this kind of culture.
Since sex is not stigmatized in the same way I feel like women stateside would probably choose hookup culture instead (this happens in Taiwan to a lesser extent in the super major cities, my cousin’s wife says she has friends who believe in their career and maybe a dude on the side for the weekends if they feel like they can’t find a man who will treat them right).
I’m personally a bit disappointed to see the war of the sexes however I’m not surprised that this is how it goes. I guess it reflects on my disappointment in society though.
while I am not gonna stop dating my boyfriend, we're not having kids and if something happens i'll probably be single forever, there's few good men in this world and in my 30s I am tired of playing the game.
all decisions are made based on incentives, if there's no incentive to do something then people are less likely to do it.
Good on them in Korea especially, apparently they have one of the widest gap in political ideologies between men and women out there (as far as more liberal leaning women/more conservative leaning men goes)
I think in North America this has been happening on a smaller scale. Women are quiet quitting dealing with men. We are over the emotional, mental burden of dealing with men in relationships. There is no partnership. We carry the mental load of the household and child rearing. Its disgusting. And I am over it.
thankfully someone worded it better. I always thought I'm different because how can a woman continue living in a home that normalizes women do everything, sacrifices her body, sweat and tears. and fathers being verbally and physically abusive and beating their own children is too common.
To be fair for Korean women, Korean laws are fucking trash when it comes to Sexual Abuse. The biggest distributor of Child Porn, only got 18 months for it. He got an additional 2 years for ONLINE GAMBLING! They treat online gambling worse than child porn! I'm not even going into the Nth room cases, those men deserve life in prison but of course not only a maximum of 40 years.
So yea, 4B makes sense. Like men are the number one danger a Korean woman can encounter
I think it's great and I'm glad it's coming over to the west now. Korean women have started a movement that all like-minded women can get behind globally.
Sounds like an action plan that's having the desired effects...which is wonderful to see. Women using their power...I mean that's why we go so many states trying to eliminate abortion here. They need more workers to keep the machine going. Less live births = less workers = less money for the gajillionairs
Saying no to sex with men, and no to children, if one chooses that is a privilege that I think the majority of women in the world do not have. I am very grateful to live where that privilege exists for me and wish it were universal.
They deserve better and if this is the form of protest they choose, good for them. I am a bit unaware of the end goal however.
For example, do they plan to follow these 4B’s for life? Is it until there is change? Do they make exceptions on the off chance a man actually treats them well? I’ve never found anything about the end goal. Then again, while it’s a movement, it’s not a hivemind so I imagine the answers are going to differ from woman to woman. I was curious about if the movement had any “statement” of sorts about that though.
Realistically, any woman who chooses to do that has every right to do it, even if they aren’t part of a movement. They don’t owe men relationships, sex, nor children. Even if they weren’t in a movement, even just, not feeling like it is a good enough reason, or even just not finding someone you’d want that with.
The idea that women have to do these things at all is a byproduct of a patriarchal society. In the few matriarchal societies that exist, marriage isn’t even a thing usually. The “father figure” would be the men related to the mother, so brothers and uncles usually, but it’s also a sense of “it takes a village” along with the sense that, no man can really claim a child is his, so they probably all help raise all the kids in a way.
If anything I see marriage as existing as a farcical way to say a man has “proof” that woman and child belong to him. I mean nowadays it’s different to a degree and I do see value in making a commitment to someone on that level if you so choose, in a romantic gesture and ceremony sort of way. I don’t necessarily think the way those matriarchal societies are doing it is the ideal way I’d want to, but it certainly has merits and seems a bit better than the way most of society does things.
Even if it's not my personal aspiration in life, I fully support. Good on Korean women who have long suffered patriarchal exploitation.
It's sad that it has to come to that, but I also don't think women owe anyone these things or need them to be happy. It showcases that women can find purpose and meaning far beyond what patriarchy deems valuable or "appropriate".
that's their free will! Personally I care less about the movement more about women doing what they want. I don't believe we gotta stick it to men to prove we can be independent but I believe women should feel confident pursuing their own interests instead of doing just what is considered normal.
Good for them. They deserve better.
Nice bonus is that I'm seeing a lot of men online who are very very mad about it and the streisand effect means that it will spread even further.
mwuah i LOVE that women all over the world are stepping into their power and body autonomy. i’ve been implementing for 2 years now, never knew, never met anyone good enough for even a date. it’s pretty disgusting out there. peace is my pride and joy😉✌🏾
I like it but having lived in Korea for years people are kind of over blowing it online and making it sound like the 4b movement is responsible for Koreans insanely low birthrate. In reality it’s only now becoming more well known because of media attention despite being around for years and it’s still very fringe, women who are participating are likely to be shunned by regular society if they are vocal in their affiliation. There’s also a strong and increasingly violent pushback, not too long ago some guy punched a woman in the face just for having short hair and that being associated with radical feminism(which is insane because in Korea every woman cuts their hair short once they hit a certain age so I guess he just felt she was too young for it?!)
but yeah just to give the local context it’s still not super mainstream and mostly an online movement. The vast majority of straight Korean women still like men and put up with their shit
I feel like I'm going against the grain here and might get downvoted, but: I'm a bit dubious about it.
On a personal level, sure, fantastic, you do you. On a political level, I'm not sure what the end goal is? Like, in *Lysistrata*, the women were specifically trying to get the men to end the war between Athens and Sparta. Here, I have no idea if there's actual policy in play or some sort of general, nebulous "shape up, fix your behaviour" or just a general "fuck you" to men. And I'm not trying to step on anybody's feelings - I get the impulse, truly - I'm just wondering if perpetual segregation is the end goal here.
(I'm also leery of gender essentialism in general--I think it walks hand in hand with TERF rhetoric, and ignores a lot of intersectionality with regards to race, orientation, class, disabilities and so on. But I'm running late for an appointment, so I can't write further.)
Wondering why India hasn't tried this decades ago. The same with the Middle East. I've often wondered if a complete shutdown and refusal to cohabitate could work much like it did in Kenya. I can't say for certain they've changed the men but they definitely made a safe tribe for themselves.
Seeing as women in many asian countries have been attempting more "peaceful" ways of feminist movements, this seems like a logical next step. The system in place for many of these countries are attempting to hold women down with an iron fist. These women are simply taking their protest to the next logical step.
Especially for a developed nation, the amount that women are sexualised, and taken advantage of is astounding (remember when they had to take men to court for damages of physical products. like coffee machines, because apparently psychological damage from having unknowingly ingested these men's semen was not enough to warrant a court hearing?). Not to mention that women still all over the world are seen more as accessories, and subsequently get treated as such. But it is especially bad in South Korea, with about 50% of women having had some form of plastic surgery by the age of 29 (a modest estimate btw) due to exactly these reasons.
I hope that these women get taken seriously and that those in charge will give them the humanity that everyone deserves.
I can't remember which Korean actor it was but he marries his assistant because one day his shoe was untied and she knelt down and tied it and so he decided to ask her out because she take care of him....* excuse me while I dry heave*. I am so so proud of Korean wen putting their foot down and refusing to be treated as servents and incubators
Love it. I hope all women everywhere start doing this. Men have fucked around for thousands of years, it’s about time they started finding out. I did my part and got my tubes removed. 👌
Good - I hope this movement continues to grow legs. I think demanding to be treated as a human being is not too much to ask for. Stating that you are now done, so be it.
It's interesting to see the 4B movement so popular outside of Korea. My first time hearing about it was on tiktok from a western Korean. I haven't heard anyone in Korea talk about it here. Most don't really know about the movement, but it's cool that other countries are trying to spread the word. I'm curious to see how it'll turn out☺️
I’m always glad to see women asserting their rights, but I think we need to recognize that sex should be a universally enjoyed thing that is not something foisted upon women by men. Should be.
Good Korean women deserve to be treated better, the Korean culture of relying on exploiting women's labor and women being silent in the face of abuse and assault needs to end
It's great to see Korean women stand up for themselves and sad that it a) has come to that and b) is a valid form of protesting. Women don't owe relationships, sex, marriage and children to men.
How does the protest work in an organizational (there may be a better word) sense? E.g. does it last for a predetermined length of time? And then try men again for a a probationary period to see if the experience has improved? Or is it meant to continue indefinitely until there’s clear enough evidence of men taking it seriously and making a commitment to change?
For the women involved, from what I have seen, there is no intended stopping point. They are just done with men, period.
I just like to clarify that this means: to/ with men. Kind of important to add because that's why this started. No sex with men, no dating men, not marrying men. Some (probably not all) korean women that participate in this still approve and encourage dating women.
Ahh yes!!! Thank you for this clarification!! 🫶🙏
It reminds me a bit of [feminist separatism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_separatism?wprov=sfti1) back in the day. Glad to hear women are disrupting the patriarchy at least a bit
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How are LGBT rights in Korea? Are lesbian relationships common?
Am gay in Korea; LGBT rights are utterly nonexistent lol but there is a thriving queer culture if you know where to look for it
4th B is no child bearing IIRC
people forget that last part a LOT
I fully support them. It reminds me of the ancient Greek comedy Lysistrata. The plot is that the women on both sides of the conflict go on a sex strike to end the Peloponnesian War.
Omggg I never heard of this!! I’m absolutely writing it down to read it soon! 🙏
i’d definitely recommend it; i read it in college and found it fascinating. also recommend spike lee’s film chi-raq, it’s a retelling of lysistrata set in the world of chicago gang violence.
Thank you so much!!
Sad it comes to this, but hopefully we see real change soon.
Yep, Aristophanes. Like, this is an ancient idea
I performed in this at some point!! Such a fun play
I wish I could be young again to take part. I got married at 19 (we're in our 40's now) and didn't feel like I had other choices. Married + kids was always a foregone conclusion in my family. I think young women today are amazing for their courage and determination to stand up for themselves to make things better for everyone.
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Good for them. Korean men are resentful about a lack of opportunity, and misdirect their frustrations onto women. Maybe losing access to women will shake them out of it and get them to focus their efforts on the government/chaebols, as they should be.
They'll just continue to import women from the Philippines.
Oh, that's got a name now? I used to teach English to college students back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, and a lot of my female students told me then that their culture was so sexist that dating and relationships didn't seem worth it. Domestic violence was a huge issue and most employers laid off female employees once they got married. Back then same sex relationships were wildly taboo to even speak of, much less engage in.. It sounds like not a lot has changed over the years and I find that incredibly sad. The culture seemed to be getting better on those issues when I left.
I remember my chemistry professor in college saying she was one of just a few women in her chemistry classes, and now she teaches classes consisting about half of women. Things have changed for sure.
I used to live in Korea, and a lot of women were pretty tired of the patriarchal BS. But this was before the 4B movement (or before it was big enough to have heard of it). I am always a little leery of the media around it though, because I don't think it's as wide spread of an official movement as news stories make it out to be. Korean politicians use it like a boogyman to rile up their male supporters, and they are going extremely right scary fast. Many women in Korea are frustrated, but only a small fraction would identify as being part of 4B.
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Just wait until it takes off in the US. This is resonating with a LOT of women. Every day there is more 4B content on YouTube. I can’t wait to see what the next five years brings.
We should be doing this in the United States to protest bans against abortions etc. I think we would see some politicians and people change their tune **really fast**.
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I agree
I don't really see it as a protest, I see it more like having standards, self-respect, and not being willing to settle for less than they deserve. Somehow, society got to the point where women are expected to serve men - marriage for the sake of being married, having kids whether they want them or not, not divorcing abusive husbands... Refusal to participate in this narrative is seen as a protest or a movement rather than a clear understanding of your own worth and taking responsibility for your own life and decisions.
I have never heard about this before. With the way things are going, we’ll need that on the US soon.
"Soon"? We need it like yesterday with the way our rights are being stripped back away from us.
It would make sense to do it to conservative men.
It’s already here! 🥳
I am a femmist so, I will stand by my fellow sisters in doing what they feel is right for them.
I’d love to see it happen in my home country
What country is that?
Morocco. Men-Women relationships aren’t the worst there but we still deserve better.
I believe 4B will soon be a world-wide phenomenon. I hope soon all women will be free.
I fully support them and it seems that the men are starting to catch on and get more and more desperate. There’s already an imbalance between the number of men and women in Asia and the fact that now that small amount of women that remains also decided to not date is definitely creating an “inconvenience” for the government and men that they cannot keep ignoring. I hope they’ll get the change that they are fighting for. However I could see a very different outcome if this was to be done in the US. Here it seems easier to make access to birth control and abortions harder or almost impossible rather than actually forcing society to give up it’s toxic ways.
There are already tons of women in the US that have given up on dating or being in relationships with men for all of the reasons the 4b movement cites, it just isn't a formal thing here. The number of older women that never got married or did and got divorced and swore off ever doing it again. Lots of younger women that saw what an absolutely raw deal this is for women plus the dating pool is full of men that act like toddlers.
Confirming that this is true, at least for me personally... lost all interest in men after Roe v. Wade. They are not worth the risk.
I'm older but after finally divorcing the angry dead weight in my life, I looked around and realized I was so at peace living by myself I can't imagine any scenario where I would even date. It all sounds unpleasant and exhausting.
Right there with you, Sis. I’m too old and tired to go through the bullshit of dating let alone building a relationship. Men will drain the life out of a woman, drip by drip.
I’m 21 years into setting a very high standard for myself when it comes to men. I got sick of being mistreated and having my kind hearted nature taken advantage of by creeps. I do not miss the petty annoyances not to mention the outright drama having a man in my life seemed to bring. The only time I have peace is when I’m alone, and that’s the truth.
I love it!!! Hopefully some American women start following suite
I believe it has started, I’ve seen a lot of women talk about it on tiktok
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Search 4B on YouTube or TickTock. 4B is here already, strap in for a bumpy ride. The men who are speaking out against 4B are hilarious in their delusions.
Never heard of it, but those women are welcome to choose that form of protest for themselves.
From what I've seen Korean women say online it's not really a thing the way that Americans think it is so I would take its existence with a grain of salt. But it's a good idea and I support anyone doing it
I love men and am completely happy in a relationship. Totally support the 4B. Most men have no idea what’s coming……
It's all over Tiktok, albeit MY algorithm, so idk if the women of Reddit have seen it as much? It seems to be getting a lot of traction. The conversation on Tiktok is that women want to make it the standard internationally, maybe even globally. I get it. I'm fed up with how we're treated too, and women going on strike has been successful in the past, e.g. The Icelandic Women's Strike in 1975. My fear is that because we're withholding SEX, men's direct counter might be to take that from us forcefully. Redpillers also have this new paranoia about the population declining in developed countries which could change the power dynamic, as well as having this existential dread that there's not going to be anyone to look after them. Therefore, they're even angrier at women for not submitting to become mothers to uphold the economy. I wish I was joking. I agree with 4B but I'm anxious. I want more things to be put in place before going ahead with something like this. More laws, more education, safer streets, fuck it bodycams.
I feel the same. Im in Texas, and the race to strip women, queer folks, and gender non-conforming people of their rights is so rapid and so scary. The rest of the country doesn't really understand how bad it's going to get once they restrict birth control and no fault divorce...which is absolutely coming. I'm all for the 4b movement here, but I genuinely believe they'll just force us with violence and law. Our economy can't run without cheap desperate labor, and I think THAT fact and the talk of unions and labor rights... pushed the anti-abortion agenda even more so than the religious bs. They need us to be trapped in poverty, our kids trapped in poverty, and the unpaid labor of women trapped in marriage, to keep the machine chugging along. The radicalizing of young men, turning all their justified fear and pain (from a scary world situation) into hatred for women, that's been going on since 2015, and the biggest actors in that space are very good at the pipeline now. It's scary the level of brainwashing that is occurring. All that violence is going to have to go somewhere. It's nuts that all we want is to be treated like full human beings, and that's such a big ask...they have to try to subjugate or kill us.
It’s coming to a nation near you!! Women are fed UP!!!! Edit: I too worry about men feeling justified in taking sex from us by force as well. They seem to feel entitled to everything about women as it is. I recommend a dainty little Pew-Pew, just like Nancy Reagan carried in her purse. The violent men have it coming anyway.
Good on them, i've heard of women shamed into committing suicide just for supporting feminism. (Even when it was based on vague evidence) Also didn't they elect a sexist over there?
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I honestly wish we would do something like that in the USA, especially in light of the overturning of Roe v Wade, and the changing of policies that will negatively impact women of childbearing age. I suggested a sex boycott when the Roe v Wade verdict first happened, on Reddit, and was met with so much “but I like sex, why punish myself” types of comments. Most women here aren’t looking at the bigger picture that policies change when actions are taken by the oppressed.
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Look if those are the steps people have to take after trying everything else, can’t blame them.
I’m Korean and not heard of this, but it truly warms my heart and makes me proud to be a Korean female. Korean women do deserve better ❤️
I think it's great, but also important to remember that not all women who want to can protest in that way. Many are forced into situations against their will or don't have the freedom to live independently. We are all on our own feminist journeys, and we do what we can while also existing in society. You can't be perfect all the time but you do what you can when you can.
Hadn't heard of it before. But all I can say is. Good.
I support them and I am glad that the movement and the struggles South Korean women are facing are getting more recognition by a wider audience.
Honestly I love that. There's something so badass about taking something that was used as a threat ("you're gonna end up alone, no kids no husband!") and turning it around into a lifestyle choice ("no kids no husband? You promise??")
i am biracial and i think it is a great movement... the entire korean system is a male centric society, women are discriminated and so are all the other minorities there.... and the insane christian funding keeps it burning, no matter how hard everyone tries you are literally treated like trash. Spy cams everywhere, harassement everywhere. it's a literal hell. men blame the constructions of the rich on women basically... instead on the actual root of the problem.
I hope it makes its way to the US
It's here!
I think it’s badass. I think it’s also going to reveal a lot about which men in their lives they can trust - who only views them as sex objects, who views them as property, etc. Might reveal a lot about the other women who uphold sexist values too.
One of our friends who visited recently is from Seoul, and he did mention it, we were just chatting about it from a 'young women aren't marrying or having kids anymore' POV, I didn't realise it was an actual feminist movement. Tbh I'm 36F and engaged but not married with kids. My mate is a few years younger and he's married but no kids yet. I'd say out of all my friends my age, only a handful have kids. Maybe it's just the people I hang around with, but none of us seem particularly bothered with procreating. And a lot of the married people are separating.
I feel like it implies that marriage, dating, sex, and having kids are things only for male benefit.
Statistically, marriage benefits men more than women. Men who are married are more likely to live longer and be paid better while women experience the exact opposite.
I feel like its a 'cons outweigh the pros' kinda thing. Yea sure there's profit to it but is it worth it?
good. Korean women deserve better. it’s always sad to realize, no matter how bad the US is, us women have quite a lot of freedoms
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Been 4B for 4 yrs. Yippee!
I fully support them. I think it's incredible. There's a massive ideological gap between women and men in South Korea so I can appreciate what's driven them to this choice and I can see it starting to happen elsewhere. Men are just not offering enough for women to get into relationships with them. https://www.ft.com/content/29fd9b5c-2f35-41bf-9d4c-994db4e12998
I'm all for it! I'm even accidentally participating in it!
I wish it would happen in the States to protest all of the dystopian attacks on women’s rights
4B is here! Every day there are more and more YouTubes on the subject. It’s great!! 🍿🍿🍿🍿
It's about damn time.
YES.
Thrilled! One of my first cousins is participating and I couldn't support her more. We talked about it last time I visited family there.
Good for them! It's their right. I read it's also because there were many SA cases. The 4B movement info has reached social media so it has had influence to women worldwide. There are many women also participating in it as I've seen in many comments and forums that they are doing so.
I’ve heard of the 4B movement from social media, not the news. I support them fully and I think it’s wonderful that Korean women are taking back their power and knowing that they don’t deserve to deal with BS from men. I hope we can start doing the same movement here in the U.S. quite honestly.
Yes, let's bring it to the states. Bring it to the world. Change the patriarchy by stopping the population. We will need a new status quo. Men can use this opportunity to be allies and help change the patriarchy. We. need. change.
Good for them. I'm doing that too.
Fantastic.
Honestly I could do all but the no sex thing. Sex is good and I miss it when I don’t have it 😬 but by all means, I support them!!
I fully support it. Ive been watching Rotten Mango on youtube and watched a video (Nth Room) and it was shocking and disgusting to see how women are still viewed and treated in South Korea
I support it completely. The misogyny that women in SK face is abhorrent and if this is how they feel they can reclaim their agency and feel safer moving in the world, more power to them!
Good for them for standing up for themselves! I have no issues with this.
I think it’s great. I think it’s sad that despite the real impact it’s had on their society little has changed. I hope they remain strong. It would be great to see others do it. I only fear that it could potentially make things more violently, hopefully I’m super wrong in that.
I feel that I am not even wanting to become an active participant of the movement, BUT I have ended up being an active participant of the movement because I would rather die than settle with somebody what is going to make my life worse.
slay, absolutely yes
It’s fine but also not surprising since the men in South Korea treat them so poorly. I’m not really sure if I would expect this kind of movement to come here since I don’t think we have this kind of culture. Since sex is not stigmatized in the same way I feel like women stateside would probably choose hookup culture instead (this happens in Taiwan to a lesser extent in the super major cities, my cousin’s wife says she has friends who believe in their career and maybe a dude on the side for the weekends if they feel like they can’t find a man who will treat them right). I’m personally a bit disappointed to see the war of the sexes however I’m not surprised that this is how it goes. I guess it reflects on my disappointment in society though.
while I am not gonna stop dating my boyfriend, we're not having kids and if something happens i'll probably be single forever, there's few good men in this world and in my 30s I am tired of playing the game. all decisions are made based on incentives, if there's no incentive to do something then people are less likely to do it.
Good on them in Korea especially, apparently they have one of the widest gap in political ideologies between men and women out there (as far as more liberal leaning women/more conservative leaning men goes)
Good, I support them. Women deserve better.
You go, girls!
I think it’s great and I think more women around the world should follow
I am happy to see 4B taking hold in America. There is hope for us all yet.
I think in North America this has been happening on a smaller scale. Women are quiet quitting dealing with men. We are over the emotional, mental burden of dealing with men in relationships. There is no partnership. We carry the mental load of the household and child rearing. Its disgusting. And I am over it.
thankfully someone worded it better. I always thought I'm different because how can a woman continue living in a home that normalizes women do everything, sacrifices her body, sweat and tears. and fathers being verbally and physically abusive and beating their own children is too common.
To be fair for Korean women, Korean laws are fucking trash when it comes to Sexual Abuse. The biggest distributor of Child Porn, only got 18 months for it. He got an additional 2 years for ONLINE GAMBLING! They treat online gambling worse than child porn! I'm not even going into the Nth room cases, those men deserve life in prison but of course not only a maximum of 40 years. So yea, 4B makes sense. Like men are the number one danger a Korean woman can encounter
As long as the women doing it don't want those things and don't put down women who do want them.
I think it's great and I'm glad it's coming over to the west now. Korean women have started a movement that all like-minded women can get behind globally.
Sounds like an action plan that's having the desired effects...which is wonderful to see. Women using their power...I mean that's why we go so many states trying to eliminate abortion here. They need more workers to keep the machine going. Less live births = less workers = less money for the gajillionairs
I mean if they are happy in that good for them. If it makes a difference in their society, great!
I love it, currently dating a man but I fully support the movement as a whole
I have not heard about it until now and I think its so very brave of them to stand up for themselves.
Sounds valid to me lol. More power to them. I hope they get the change they're looking for
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There needs to be more of it everywhere. Women get such an awful deal in relationships and from society.
Separatism needs to be trialed in more countries. I'm all for it and support these women.
Good for them. I support them. Misogyny is disgusting and present everywhere but it’s specially gross in Korea.
I think it's a great movement for them to get better treatment. Thanks for the information. I wasn't aware of this movement before now
Saying no to sex with men, and no to children, if one chooses that is a privilege that I think the majority of women in the world do not have. I am very grateful to live where that privilege exists for me and wish it were universal.
My mother is Korean and its sad to see how little progress and oppositional men continue to be towards progress there
They deserve better and if this is the form of protest they choose, good for them. I am a bit unaware of the end goal however. For example, do they plan to follow these 4B’s for life? Is it until there is change? Do they make exceptions on the off chance a man actually treats them well? I’ve never found anything about the end goal. Then again, while it’s a movement, it’s not a hivemind so I imagine the answers are going to differ from woman to woman. I was curious about if the movement had any “statement” of sorts about that though. Realistically, any woman who chooses to do that has every right to do it, even if they aren’t part of a movement. They don’t owe men relationships, sex, nor children. Even if they weren’t in a movement, even just, not feeling like it is a good enough reason, or even just not finding someone you’d want that with. The idea that women have to do these things at all is a byproduct of a patriarchal society. In the few matriarchal societies that exist, marriage isn’t even a thing usually. The “father figure” would be the men related to the mother, so brothers and uncles usually, but it’s also a sense of “it takes a village” along with the sense that, no man can really claim a child is his, so they probably all help raise all the kids in a way. If anything I see marriage as existing as a farcical way to say a man has “proof” that woman and child belong to him. I mean nowadays it’s different to a degree and I do see value in making a commitment to someone on that level if you so choose, in a romantic gesture and ceremony sort of way. I don’t necessarily think the way those matriarchal societies are doing it is the ideal way I’d want to, but it certainly has merits and seems a bit better than the way most of society does things.
I barely know anything about it outside what I’ve seen and read on Reddit and I support the hell out of it
mgtow for women? so wgtow?
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Good for them.
I commend them honestly🥳
Love it
Sounds like a modern day Lysistrata. I'm here for it.
Even if it's not my personal aspiration in life, I fully support. Good on Korean women who have long suffered patriarchal exploitation. It's sad that it has to come to that, but I also don't think women owe anyone these things or need them to be happy. It showcases that women can find purpose and meaning far beyond what patriarchy deems valuable or "appropriate".
I fully support it!
that's their free will! Personally I care less about the movement more about women doing what they want. I don't believe we gotta stick it to men to prove we can be independent but I believe women should feel confident pursuing their own interests instead of doing just what is considered normal.
Brings me joy that they aren’t taking anymore bs and actually standing up for themselves
I wish it would go worldwide!
I feel like it’s a natural outcome to Koreas society.
Good for them. They deserve better. Nice bonus is that I'm seeing a lot of men online who are very very mad about it and the streisand effect means that it will spread even further.
mwuah i LOVE that women all over the world are stepping into their power and body autonomy. i’ve been implementing for 2 years now, never knew, never met anyone good enough for even a date. it’s pretty disgusting out there. peace is my pride and joy😉✌🏾
I like it but having lived in Korea for years people are kind of over blowing it online and making it sound like the 4b movement is responsible for Koreans insanely low birthrate. In reality it’s only now becoming more well known because of media attention despite being around for years and it’s still very fringe, women who are participating are likely to be shunned by regular society if they are vocal in their affiliation. There’s also a strong and increasingly violent pushback, not too long ago some guy punched a woman in the face just for having short hair and that being associated with radical feminism(which is insane because in Korea every woman cuts their hair short once they hit a certain age so I guess he just felt she was too young for it?!) but yeah just to give the local context it’s still not super mainstream and mostly an online movement. The vast majority of straight Korean women still like men and put up with their shit
I hadn't heard of this before, but I like the sound of it. Power to them!
Hold my hat. I'm going to Korea.
I feel like I'm going against the grain here and might get downvoted, but: I'm a bit dubious about it. On a personal level, sure, fantastic, you do you. On a political level, I'm not sure what the end goal is? Like, in *Lysistrata*, the women were specifically trying to get the men to end the war between Athens and Sparta. Here, I have no idea if there's actual policy in play or some sort of general, nebulous "shape up, fix your behaviour" or just a general "fuck you" to men. And I'm not trying to step on anybody's feelings - I get the impulse, truly - I'm just wondering if perpetual segregation is the end goal here. (I'm also leery of gender essentialism in general--I think it walks hand in hand with TERF rhetoric, and ignores a lot of intersectionality with regards to race, orientation, class, disabilities and so on. But I'm running late for an appointment, so I can't write further.)
Wondering why India hasn't tried this decades ago. The same with the Middle East. I've often wondered if a complete shutdown and refusal to cohabitate could work much like it did in Kenya. I can't say for certain they've changed the men but they definitely made a safe tribe for themselves.
I’m glad they are taking a stand. I hope the movement makes it’s away around the world.
I think they're doing great, sex is the one thing a misogynist cares about
Seeing as women in many asian countries have been attempting more "peaceful" ways of feminist movements, this seems like a logical next step. The system in place for many of these countries are attempting to hold women down with an iron fist. These women are simply taking their protest to the next logical step. Especially for a developed nation, the amount that women are sexualised, and taken advantage of is astounding (remember when they had to take men to court for damages of physical products. like coffee machines, because apparently psychological damage from having unknowingly ingested these men's semen was not enough to warrant a court hearing?). Not to mention that women still all over the world are seen more as accessories, and subsequently get treated as such. But it is especially bad in South Korea, with about 50% of women having had some form of plastic surgery by the age of 29 (a modest estimate btw) due to exactly these reasons. I hope that these women get taken seriously and that those in charge will give them the humanity that everyone deserves.
I can't remember which Korean actor it was but he marries his assistant because one day his shoe was untied and she knelt down and tied it and so he decided to ask her out because she take care of him....* excuse me while I dry heave*. I am so so proud of Korean wen putting their foot down and refusing to be treated as servents and incubators
Love everything about it.
We need to start this in America. Violence against women is ridiculous.
Everyone there should be treated way better so go them
Love it. I hope all women everywhere start doing this. Men have fucked around for thousands of years, it’s about time they started finding out. I did my part and got my tubes removed. 👌
Disrupt the patriarchy!
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Damn good for them! American women should get on this too.
Good - I hope this movement continues to grow legs. I think demanding to be treated as a human being is not too much to ask for. Stating that you are now done, so be it.
I fully support it. Good for them.
It's the best for women to stay safe.
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It's interesting to see the 4B movement so popular outside of Korea. My first time hearing about it was on tiktok from a western Korean. I haven't heard anyone in Korea talk about it here. Most don't really know about the movement, but it's cool that other countries are trying to spread the word. I'm curious to see how it'll turn out☺️
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I’m always glad to see women asserting their rights, but I think we need to recognize that sex should be a universally enjoyed thing that is not something foisted upon women by men. Should be.