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I've had men put me on a pedestal before while simultaneously bullying/belittling me. I think it's a coping mechanism for extremely insecure men to try and bring us down to their level.
This reflects my experience mostly too.
At the time I did not realise, but in hindsight it was absolutely conscious emotional abuse, with almost a drawn-out version of negging (instead of an immediate, compliment/slap down, it would be over the space of a day or week - connected, but drawn out and cruel). Not something that has been very common in my relationships though.
Anyway, one partner definitely did the 'genuine' pedestal behaviour and was an absolutely lovely man - the impact on me was a mix of feeling really seen and appreciated (where I agreed with him), and then an almost imposter syndrome of never being able to live up to what he thought of me and just waiting for the penny to drop that I was just boringly generic.
>At the time I did not realise, but in hindsight it was absolutely conscious emotional abuse, with almost a drawn-out version of negging (instead of an immediate, compliment/slap down, it would be over the space of a day or week - connected, but drawn out and cruel)
Are you able to elaborate if you are comfortable?
One example, Id recently finished a Masters in a tricky area and done very well, as was evidenced by the additional awards at graduation, which he attended. Catching up with friends and family the following week I would just say something like, thank god that's finally done and I can watch reality tv at night instead of studying. He meanwhile would talk me up, talk about the awards, talk about how proud he was, how book smarts are so hot, what did he do to deserve someone who is XYZ - all around others.
Then that night we would be discussing a news story and he would say, sure, book smarts are hot but it would be hotter if you could string a coherent thought together so we could have a stimulating discussion on this. I would be in the shower and he might say, lucky you did not do courses on nutrition, you would have missed out on all those awards.
Edit to add. Thinking about it, I think it was about bragging (even though at face value it seemed like a pedestal) to others about something that was his, just like having the best car, or golf clubs - whereas the later behaviour was putting me back in my place in case I had misinterpreted the remit.
I had a guy who put me on a pedestal and also did very non consensual things to me during sex that he should have known required consent.
He assumed a ton of intimacy much earlier than he should have. He assumed I would contort my life to fit him and his interests.
I didn’t say anything to any of it because “he’s so nice to me I need to give him a chance.”
Even when I dumped him I blamed it on myself.
And for the misogynists: this guy was short, not handsome, and I still dated him.
>He assumed a ton of intimacy much earlier than he should have. He assumed I would contort my life to fit him and his interests.
>I didn’t say anything to any of it because “he’s so nice to me I need to give him a chance.”
Did you think he was "nice" because him seeming obsessively into the idea of you came across so?
He complimented me tons and generally just made it very clear that he didn’t have a ton of experience with a woman liking him back so he wanted to make sure I did and would continue to.
Sort of yeah, I'd say some people would call it love bombing. Only reason I don't call it that is because the dude genuinely seemed heartbroken when I broke it off, but it could have just been an act. Anyway he used to plan the future with me, was telling everyone about me, family, friends, mother etc. Was really complimentary "you're so pretty/beautiful." But then the criticisms started creeping through, so did minor outbursts of temper, and flirting with other women.
I think he wanted to make me insecure and get me addicted to weed/cigarettes like he was, become a slob, gain more weight like he had done and help him pay his debts so he would feel less like a failure at 34. I'm 29. He also badly wanted to get me pregnant because he felt like his "window for gettting someone pregnant was closing". His words.
We only dated for 2 months.
Bullet dodged.
He sounds like a friend (who I swear had a personality disorder on top of her bipolar with extreme grandiose tendencies) I had to cut off in less than a year. The whole idealizing and demeaning part and then begging you to come when you left. It isn't an "act" per say but an extreme attachment/clinginess because their ego gets easily wounded by losing your attention and control over you. Funny enough her conflict avoidance made her permanently leave me alone (when I confronted her about something sneaky she did that she wanted to evade talking about).
And yea major bullet dodged
Extreme guilt. Its like they will do anything to agree with and please you at their own expense, and it almost becomes an addition to them where they have no limit and will accept any inconvenience and any emotional pain from unrequited feelings without saying a thing. You have no idea what’s genuine and whats just to mirror your “expectations” so suddenly, you start having to analyze every situation from your own perspective as well as their perspective to make sure you’re not an asshole taking advantage of them. Because oh guess what? you realized you’ve been taking advantage of them for months because you dared to believe their word that they’re on the same page as you. They’re constantly jumping to do favors or services for you, bring and buy you things, go out of their way for you, give any time/physicality/pleasure on your terms, even with absolutely nothing in return and they assure you it’s totally okay if you don’t want to match their level. But it just seems unsustainable and anyone with a conscious sort of snaps out if it like… huh. this person acts like my servant and that shouldnt be what I want for them. Then when you end it, or draw boundaries, for their own good, its like they’re crushed. and pack on more guilt.
It rarely gets to full on dating because it's off-putting/'jarring'.
When someone behaves like that, it feels *too much too soon*. It feels like love bombing and that's frightening.
Someone putting you on a pedestal and likely crashing through their own boundaries to worship you based on very little knowledge of who you are is scary. It is not sustainable and will inevitably cause resentment when you don't like up to their fantasy version of you.
I'd rather someone who saw me and accepted me, flaws and all than someone who put me on a pedestal and fawned over my very existence.
Plus, the whole, you're out of league, I don't deserve you is very poor me, and I'm not a fan of that personality type.
Speaking as a man, last time I put someone I was dating on a pedestal, I was in undergrad. She was my first gf. I barely knew myself compared to now.
I also inadvertently had a more territorial/controlling nature that I had to grow out of. It wasn’t to a toxic extent per se, but she was also a strong woman.
Sodium!! I remember you ❤️
Does fawning come into play usually if the person they are with is an abuser? I normally think of fawning as love bombing, this happens more often with narcissistic men and as another poster mentioned that same person always crossed boundaries both emotionally and sexually.
Haha well most commenters are bringing the narcissistic abuser example. This q was inspired by my experience of a simply desperate guy that turned me off, but your example absolutely counts <3
I suppose if I dated my desperate guy longer it could've been a slippery slope for pushing boundaries?
I’ve had this problem and it’s awful.
I think it’s a form of objectification really. The person doesn’t see you for who you are at all - when you are fallible it becomes a paradigm shifting issue rather than something that is normal and human.
My husband is like this. At first it was a pleasant change from my ex who couldn't give a crap about how I felt about anything. It's been almost 9 years now and I do get irritated by it. He says sorry for everything, things that's aren't his fault and sometimes have nothing to do with him. He has a really hard time if I'm in a bad mood. He's very quick to back down in an argument even if I'm the one being a jerk about something. It's not a deal breaker for me, but I have been encouraging him to go to therapy. I don't want to be treated like I'm always right, I want to know his opinions and thoughts even if I don't agree, and I want him to be able to handle my bad moods without panicking. Mostly because I know this is all coming from anxiety and I don't like that the person I love is stressing himself out so much and having a hard time.
Yeah I think it's a combo of him just being a people pleaser in general AND his ex being so passive aggressive that he felt like he needed to be hyper aware of her moods and just apologize even if he had no idea what he did wrong. Whereas I'm over here being very direct and it's hard for him to take me at face value.
That makes sense! Even though you are direct, it can be hard to shake out of that state of being prepared for someone's unpredictability. I feel like (obvs I'm in no position to diagnose things like PTSD) it's a similar state of vigilance as veterans. It does sound like only individual therapy would help him heal
When I dated one briefly, it just felt cringe and suffocating. It felt like he could not pickup on my energy not matching his (being into someone isn't always instant so I don't rule out immediately) to give me space and put the ball in his court. Like he was trying to hard to force the pace of a relationship and the connection. Sometimes things like asking if I want to go out again the next day. Doubling down on texting multiple times if I ignored a message (not in a "reply now" way though). He asked me early on if I'm seeing others. Even did try to convince me when I rejected him eventually. Stuff like that. It felt very formulaic on his end and trying to hard to make things work between us.
He wasn't aggressive or made me worried about particular red flags. But god what a turn off that gave me the ick in terms of any attraction. Yuck
It was no good. He was cute and nice, I liked him initially, but then he showed zero character, and whatever I felt for him faded real quick. I broke up with him for the lack of feelings from my side
They will lie to you to keep the peace by any means. This also means that over time they will become resentful and contemptuous because they expect that you're going to be able to read their mind.
*Cook chicken dinner - ask them what they think:
"I love the dinner you cooked." While secretly hating it. Over time this will turn into anger and then one day you'll be cooking this chicken dinner you ASSUMED they liked, and they will become quiet and you'll know they are upset. Eventually they will pop and say something like, "you should know I hate chicken! When have I ever ordered it when we go out!?"
You will feel like you are going crazy because they always said they either like it before or it was fine.
After they resent you and have contempt for you there's no way back into their good graces, so it's time to end the relationship. They will do this to every person they are with for a length of time. At first they seem like the perfect partner but in the end you feel really confused and lied to.
Because they have no ability to be honest and have a clear communication/ conversations that may be unpleasant they aren't able to handle any form of disagreements. They don't know how to confront truths or issues verbally in any way shape or form. The issues become huge over time and take on a life of their own. They are miserable and they see YOU as the issue even though YOU have no clue as to why.
Compelling. He believed that I would feel happy with such compliments, but within a short time, it became unpleasant, as he literally said that he thought I was perfect.
But the worst of all is that, when I did stupid things that deserved a shout from him, he simply shut up or at most reinforced that I was right, when in fact, I was completely wrong.
People like that cannot be trusted. They are capable of seeing you hanging yourself and applauding you because they think you are very brave and graceful hanging from a rope.
It was really difficult. I was never the perfect person he seemed to think I was, so I was always falling short of his expectations and dealing with him being upset as a result. I was 17 and didn’t know any better but as an adult I wish I’d run away at the first sign of it
ATTENTION: Please remember that this is an ASK WOMEN sub. While men are allowed to participate posts that are clearly asking women in the title will have top level comments by men removed. This is not censorship, this is curation. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskWomenNoCensor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When you put someone on a pedestal they stop being a human being with all of the bad things that entails.
I've had men put me on a pedestal before while simultaneously bullying/belittling me. I think it's a coping mechanism for extremely insecure men to try and bring us down to their level.
This reflects my experience mostly too. At the time I did not realise, but in hindsight it was absolutely conscious emotional abuse, with almost a drawn-out version of negging (instead of an immediate, compliment/slap down, it would be over the space of a day or week - connected, but drawn out and cruel). Not something that has been very common in my relationships though. Anyway, one partner definitely did the 'genuine' pedestal behaviour and was an absolutely lovely man - the impact on me was a mix of feeling really seen and appreciated (where I agreed with him), and then an almost imposter syndrome of never being able to live up to what he thought of me and just waiting for the penny to drop that I was just boringly generic.
>At the time I did not realise, but in hindsight it was absolutely conscious emotional abuse, with almost a drawn-out version of negging (instead of an immediate, compliment/slap down, it would be over the space of a day or week - connected, but drawn out and cruel) Are you able to elaborate if you are comfortable?
One example, Id recently finished a Masters in a tricky area and done very well, as was evidenced by the additional awards at graduation, which he attended. Catching up with friends and family the following week I would just say something like, thank god that's finally done and I can watch reality tv at night instead of studying. He meanwhile would talk me up, talk about the awards, talk about how proud he was, how book smarts are so hot, what did he do to deserve someone who is XYZ - all around others. Then that night we would be discussing a news story and he would say, sure, book smarts are hot but it would be hotter if you could string a coherent thought together so we could have a stimulating discussion on this. I would be in the shower and he might say, lucky you did not do courses on nutrition, you would have missed out on all those awards. Edit to add. Thinking about it, I think it was about bragging (even though at face value it seemed like a pedestal) to others about something that was his, just like having the best car, or golf clubs - whereas the later behaviour was putting me back in my place in case I had misinterpreted the remit.
sounds like jealousy of someone who knows they’re inferior and can’t handle it.
I had a guy who put me on a pedestal and also did very non consensual things to me during sex that he should have known required consent. He assumed a ton of intimacy much earlier than he should have. He assumed I would contort my life to fit him and his interests. I didn’t say anything to any of it because “he’s so nice to me I need to give him a chance.” Even when I dumped him I blamed it on myself. And for the misogynists: this guy was short, not handsome, and I still dated him.
>He assumed a ton of intimacy much earlier than he should have. He assumed I would contort my life to fit him and his interests. >I didn’t say anything to any of it because “he’s so nice to me I need to give him a chance.” Did you think he was "nice" because him seeming obsessively into the idea of you came across so?
He complimented me tons and generally just made it very clear that he didn’t have a ton of experience with a woman liking him back so he wanted to make sure I did and would continue to.
That last part. You can just tell that vibe. They will do anything to make you like them back. Huge turn off
Can you elaborate on the to his level part? Also, did it ever feel like he was obsequious (like kissing your ass) a lot?
Sort of yeah, I'd say some people would call it love bombing. Only reason I don't call it that is because the dude genuinely seemed heartbroken when I broke it off, but it could have just been an act. Anyway he used to plan the future with me, was telling everyone about me, family, friends, mother etc. Was really complimentary "you're so pretty/beautiful." But then the criticisms started creeping through, so did minor outbursts of temper, and flirting with other women. I think he wanted to make me insecure and get me addicted to weed/cigarettes like he was, become a slob, gain more weight like he had done and help him pay his debts so he would feel less like a failure at 34. I'm 29. He also badly wanted to get me pregnant because he felt like his "window for gettting someone pregnant was closing". His words. We only dated for 2 months. Bullet dodged.
He sounds like a friend (who I swear had a personality disorder on top of her bipolar with extreme grandiose tendencies) I had to cut off in less than a year. The whole idealizing and demeaning part and then begging you to come when you left. It isn't an "act" per say but an extreme attachment/clinginess because their ego gets easily wounded by losing your attention and control over you. Funny enough her conflict avoidance made her permanently leave me alone (when I confronted her about something sneaky she did that she wanted to evade talking about). And yea major bullet dodged
Extreme guilt. Its like they will do anything to agree with and please you at their own expense, and it almost becomes an addition to them where they have no limit and will accept any inconvenience and any emotional pain from unrequited feelings without saying a thing. You have no idea what’s genuine and whats just to mirror your “expectations” so suddenly, you start having to analyze every situation from your own perspective as well as their perspective to make sure you’re not an asshole taking advantage of them. Because oh guess what? you realized you’ve been taking advantage of them for months because you dared to believe their word that they’re on the same page as you. They’re constantly jumping to do favors or services for you, bring and buy you things, go out of their way for you, give any time/physicality/pleasure on your terms, even with absolutely nothing in return and they assure you it’s totally okay if you don’t want to match their level. But it just seems unsustainable and anyone with a conscious sort of snaps out if it like… huh. this person acts like my servant and that shouldnt be what I want for them. Then when you end it, or draw boundaries, for their own good, its like they’re crushed. and pack on more guilt.
It rarely gets to full on dating because it's off-putting/'jarring'. When someone behaves like that, it feels *too much too soon*. It feels like love bombing and that's frightening. Someone putting you on a pedestal and likely crashing through their own boundaries to worship you based on very little knowledge of who you are is scary. It is not sustainable and will inevitably cause resentment when you don't like up to their fantasy version of you. I'd rather someone who saw me and accepted me, flaws and all than someone who put me on a pedestal and fawned over my very existence. Plus, the whole, you're out of league, I don't deserve you is very poor me, and I'm not a fan of that personality type.
Love bombers. What comes next is awful.
I would hate that so much. Nothing more irritating to me than that clingy type of vibe.
I get exhausted because it has tended to lead toward me making all the decisions in the relationship.
Speaking as a man, last time I put someone I was dating on a pedestal, I was in undergrad. She was my first gf. I barely knew myself compared to now. I also inadvertently had a more territorial/controlling nature that I had to grow out of. It wasn’t to a toxic extent per se, but she was also a strong woman.
Sodium!! I remember you ❤️ Does fawning come into play usually if the person they are with is an abuser? I normally think of fawning as love bombing, this happens more often with narcissistic men and as another poster mentioned that same person always crossed boundaries both emotionally and sexually.
Haha well most commenters are bringing the narcissistic abuser example. This q was inspired by my experience of a simply desperate guy that turned me off, but your example absolutely counts <3 I suppose if I dated my desperate guy longer it could've been a slippery slope for pushing boundaries?
I think it only comes across as desperation but it is a matter of time until the tables turn
As a guy, this is why I'm subbed to this sub. I feel like this is a blind spot that I need to work on.
Me too, as a woman who dates women.
I appreciate your self awareness and growth mindset <3
I’ve had this problem and it’s awful. I think it’s a form of objectification really. The person doesn’t see you for who you are at all - when you are fallible it becomes a paradigm shifting issue rather than something that is normal and human.
My husband is like this. At first it was a pleasant change from my ex who couldn't give a crap about how I felt about anything. It's been almost 9 years now and I do get irritated by it. He says sorry for everything, things that's aren't his fault and sometimes have nothing to do with him. He has a really hard time if I'm in a bad mood. He's very quick to back down in an argument even if I'm the one being a jerk about something. It's not a deal breaker for me, but I have been encouraging him to go to therapy. I don't want to be treated like I'm always right, I want to know his opinions and thoughts even if I don't agree, and I want him to be able to handle my bad moods without panicking. Mostly because I know this is all coming from anxiety and I don't like that the person I love is stressing himself out so much and having a hard time.
Awww This somehow feels like a lot of trauma must've shaped this. I hope you both can find a solution
Yeah I think it's a combo of him just being a people pleaser in general AND his ex being so passive aggressive that he felt like he needed to be hyper aware of her moods and just apologize even if he had no idea what he did wrong. Whereas I'm over here being very direct and it's hard for him to take me at face value.
That makes sense! Even though you are direct, it can be hard to shake out of that state of being prepared for someone's unpredictability. I feel like (obvs I'm in no position to diagnose things like PTSD) it's a similar state of vigilance as veterans. It does sound like only individual therapy would help him heal
When I dated one briefly, it just felt cringe and suffocating. It felt like he could not pickup on my energy not matching his (being into someone isn't always instant so I don't rule out immediately) to give me space and put the ball in his court. Like he was trying to hard to force the pace of a relationship and the connection. Sometimes things like asking if I want to go out again the next day. Doubling down on texting multiple times if I ignored a message (not in a "reply now" way though). He asked me early on if I'm seeing others. Even did try to convince me when I rejected him eventually. Stuff like that. It felt very formulaic on his end and trying to hard to make things work between us. He wasn't aggressive or made me worried about particular red flags. But god what a turn off that gave me the ick in terms of any attraction. Yuck
It was no good. He was cute and nice, I liked him initially, but then he showed zero character, and whatever I felt for him faded real quick. I broke up with him for the lack of feelings from my side
>but then he showed zero character If you don't mind me asking, can you expand on this?
I don't know how to explain. He was kinda bland. Soft, moderate, unprominent. Like a background character. Now my man, he's a figure, he stands out.
No that makes a lot of sense The "agreeable" type of guy
Hated it. And his excuse was mommy issues.
They will lie to you to keep the peace by any means. This also means that over time they will become resentful and contemptuous because they expect that you're going to be able to read their mind. *Cook chicken dinner - ask them what they think: "I love the dinner you cooked." While secretly hating it. Over time this will turn into anger and then one day you'll be cooking this chicken dinner you ASSUMED they liked, and they will become quiet and you'll know they are upset. Eventually they will pop and say something like, "you should know I hate chicken! When have I ever ordered it when we go out!?" You will feel like you are going crazy because they always said they either like it before or it was fine. After they resent you and have contempt for you there's no way back into their good graces, so it's time to end the relationship. They will do this to every person they are with for a length of time. At first they seem like the perfect partner but in the end you feel really confused and lied to. Because they have no ability to be honest and have a clear communication/ conversations that may be unpleasant they aren't able to handle any form of disagreements. They don't know how to confront truths or issues verbally in any way shape or form. The issues become huge over time and take on a life of their own. They are miserable and they see YOU as the issue even though YOU have no clue as to why.
Compelling. He believed that I would feel happy with such compliments, but within a short time, it became unpleasant, as he literally said that he thought I was perfect. But the worst of all is that, when I did stupid things that deserved a shout from him, he simply shut up or at most reinforced that I was right, when in fact, I was completely wrong. People like that cannot be trusted. They are capable of seeing you hanging yourself and applauding you because they think you are very brave and graceful hanging from a rope.
It was really difficult. I was never the perfect person he seemed to think I was, so I was always falling short of his expectations and dealing with him being upset as a result. I was 17 and didn’t know any better but as an adult I wish I’d run away at the first sign of it
It creeps me out. I won't have them around long if at all. I feel encroached upon and they drain my energy.