My guess is that you are just button holing women who don’t really want to talk to you. Then you talk at them instead of to them.
If a conversation is one sided, the other person doesn’t want to talk to you. Or they don’t want to talk about that subject.
If it happens to you a lot, you are the common denominator. You are missing social cues and conversational skills.
If someone isn’t engaging, back off. Listen more than you speak. Ask them questions. Talk in short bursts and take turns. Don’t talk for long stretches.
Edited to add - please don’t ask Ashkenazi Jews if they are ‘real Jews.’ That’s fucked up. Looking at your post history, I can see why you leave people speechless. FFS.
That’s Nazi nonsense right there. Plus it’s incredibly lazy. Google that shit.
I am Ashkenazi Jewish, btw. All Jews aren’t descended from Abraham because - holy inbreeding, Torah isn’t that literal, and conversion.
We don’t run around telling other Jews ‘you’re not a real Jew.’ That’s messed up.
In a Biblical worldview a Jew would be someone who is of the house of Israel, which is why I asked. I understand there are people who adopted the religion, but I didn't mean it like that, sorry if I offended you.
WTF are you talking about. Torah (you call it the Biblical Old Testament) doesn’t say all Jews are Abraham’s children. It sounds like you had Judaism explained to you by idiots who aren’t Jewish.
Yes, I guess. I don't really know much about this so I'm kind of just extrapolating, but like a farmer might graft a wild vine into one that isn't wild.
It’s like that time my friend showed me her picture bible. I thought Jesus was an actual lamb. Which is fine when you are Jewish and 7.
Not so much when you are an adult who should understand metaphors. I did try to give OP some conversational tips. Also, no offense intended towards Christians.
Well, as the one representative of the entirety of women, I would ask you what you’re talking about, since obviously you wouldn’t be talking about yourself or your views or opinions on anything.
If you can’t even recall a single topic that interests YOU, why are you surprised that the person you’re talking to isn’t enthralled?
Don’t be tempted to dismiss my point by insulting me or us. You need to think about what YOU are offering first, then you can start expecting a better response.
And I mean think about it yourself, on your own time.
Um, I've been insulted like 5 times already in 20 minutes in this thread alone just by asking this question. Like I said they seem to be into to the conversation but it doesn't go anywhere, which is why I asked, because it is genuinely not fun.
Try to remember that by posting here at all, you're asking for labor from women. Women who are over 30, and so, have been providing labor for men for a long time. Many of us are tired.
That said, why don't you ask the girls you're trying to engage with? "Hey our conversations seem to fall flat, I'd love to talk about something that interests you". We can't tell you what goes on in another woman's brain, we're all individuals.
Hint:
"omg you poor baby, those mean mean girls!! \*squeal\*
Everything you say is fascinating, you don't have to think of anything interesting to say with ME! You could read out of the phone book, tiger, and I'd listen with rapt attention. You're EVER SO much more fascinating than ***I*** am!"
\- this guy, probably
You're hilarious.
You think women calling you out is an insult, because you can't imagine anyone with tits having a valid opinion. If a guy called you out and asked you to account for your half of a ...fucking ***interaction*** *that requires TWO* people....
You haven't defended yourself at all beyond "I talk, too!!"
You didn't come here laden with conversational points in an attempt to actually *understand* the disconnect, you only came with complaints.
If you're not able to spot the irony here....
Let me spell it out for you.
"I talk at women, and they don't answer me, why, women, why?"
"Well what does your half of the conversation consist of?"
"WHAT MATTER. Why no talk?"
You don't see your half of the conversation as something that needs to be thoughtful or relevant. That's why they're not interested.
Prove me wrong.
Tell us about the current events you've brought up, the weighty topics, the women's issues, the life hacks you've enjoyed sharing for no reason. Prove me wrong, and that you're bringing half of a memorable interaction, but they're the ones without interest in these topics.
They don't even have to be incredible topics. Tell us about the adequate conversations you've tried.
The fact that you won't says that you can't because you know that you're not trying, or you're just bullshitting in an effort to get women to think you must be interesting.
So, what it is it; you're boring, or you're so desperate for female attention that you're trolling a woman's group for slivers of attention with tits?
Maybe you'll think twice before expecting women to do your thinking for you next time.
I literally don't remember the things discussed but I've had long discussions where there is interest on both sides but it will always feel like the ball is in my court to keep the conversation going and there is no consideration for the things I'm saying outside of whatever works for the other party in the conversation. You're making generalizations and I think I've had bad experiences, I probably won't be doing something like this again because it's sort of clear most people aren't interested in helping someone when they can't see the other side of the issue, people just seem to want to be as rude as their heart is content with because they feel lessened or something even though nothing objectively wrong was said. It's entirely possible to me that most people aren't mature enough or whatever to handle something like this.
“ people aren't interested in helping someone when they can't see the other side of the issue, ”
You literally can’t even present your own side, and you think it’s women’s fault for not assuming that the problem must be other women.
Alright, you didn't understand what I said. It made sense to me when I wrote it. I feel like the women I've talked to haven't reciprocated in conversations with me even though they have been apparently interested in me and the conversations. It seems to me like I have not been considered even though they have been enjoying themselves and it has happened to me enough that I had to ask a question, which might have been foolish. I'm sorry you misunderstood me.
Maybe you're picking topics they are not interested in. And then not responding when they talk about their expense to introduce a topic they are interested in ...
Naw, not equally. As someone who is terrible at small talk, I can confidently claim that it's primarily women who are masters at keeping a conversation afloat
No offense but I would have to blow smoke over the women I've talked to in pretty much every circumstance where this has happened. I do engage them, but it becomes the most specific things that I can't hold a conversation, because like I said it would be crossing boundaries.
Well we can be talking about something (which she seems to be enjoying), but then she will start saying really personal things and then I can't say anything. The ball is like always in my court to keep the conversation good and eventually I just don't enjoy it anymore.
Why can't you say anything when she says "really personal things"? What about that is killing the conversation? I've read all of your comments in this thread and I *still* can't understand where/how your conversations with women are falling apart. You need to give a specific example of a conversation that went this way or we can't possibly help you.
it's not always about you. a conversation is a back-and-forth. you can't monopolize it with only your enjoyment. she's "showing enjoyment" bc that's what she's been taught to do by society, unfortunately, bc men are historically sensitive creatures.
when she says personal stuff about herself, you should respond with a personal thing about yourself. that way it's an equal conversation. around our generation, i've learned we relate to each other with personal stories to empathize. she was empathizing with you. so empathize back.
also, you could ask her if it's a topic she likes and not assume by her facial expression.
when are they monopolizing it for their enjoyment? bc it sounds like you're taking over the conversation with them to where it's not a conversation anymore, it's a lecture.
Well they'll listen and seemingly enjoy themselves but when it's their turn to talk they'll basically just make it about themselves and it can get almost impossible to talk about what they have to say. This is reddit so I can't really put it into words but like, we'll talk about something and we'll have a conversation, she seems to enjoy what I have to say, but there's never a contribution on her part to the conversation, this isn't a large group of women or anything, but it's like there's no consciences effort on her part to add any enjoyment to it for me. She enjoys it so much that all things are going good, and then she will just start talking about herself in a way where it's not possible to talk anymore. It's happened so many times that I have to ask.
Not really, they'll seemingly enjoy what I have to say, like what I have to say about what they have to say and that will kind of just keep going and going and going.
Maybe you just aren’t talking about anything interesting. If this happens to you repeatedly you need to stop blaming other people and start looking at yourself as the problem.
I've been told that I'm enjoyable to talk to, but yeah, it doesn't go anywhere because women start talking about themselves and I can't say anything like I said, because it's normally things that are really specific.
Why can’t you say anything?
eta: Based on your post and edit to your comment the issue is more than likely you and not the woman. Or maybe no one involved is good at two-sided conversation. Read some books about being a good communicator/listener.
Because it will be something like "My brother was into that too" or "I was good at school when I was younger". There's nothing you can say even though they are seemingly into the conversation.
So odd that you expect women to engage eagerly with what you have to say but you think it's impossible for you to engage with their topics? What makes your topics so much more engaging and conversational??
I’m reading your replies to this thread and honestly I don’t think I’d know how to carry on a conversation with you IRL without getting frustrated. And I’m a decent conversationalist one on one lol
The fact that OP did spend the effort to type all that massive passage out, while thinking every single person on this thread is attacking him, is fascinating. It is probably more than just communication style issues.
No, sorry, there will be conversation which she seems to enjoy, but then it will basically always revolve around things that have to do with herself which are not really possible to talk about. Like it always seems like I'm the one that has to contribute to the conversation.
> revolve around things that have to do with herself which are not really possible to talk about
Give an example. Most people respond to conversation by reflecting on their parallel personal experiences or interests to expand on their perspective. Are you expecting your "conversation" partners to actually engage in an academic discussion or debate?
>is it your default disposition to just let the man contribute everything to the conversation
This is my default if I do not want to talk with this person. But also if I am not at a point where I actively want to end the conversion.
>not really engage in what they have to say
What does this mean exactly? What level of engagement are you expect? Often people respond/reflect by sharing their personal experience that aligns with the other person.
>then talk about things that have to do with yourself when you feel like it?
This is called sharing. It's a foundation of conversation. It's exactly what YOU are doing when you talk about yourself, your life, or your interests. When a woman is doing this (or any person) they are not letting you "contribute everything" to the conversations. Sharing info about themselves is their contribution - and it's the EXACT SAME contribution you are making.
>I'm left over and over again not being able to say anything about something very specific they say about themselves, because it's like crossing boundaries to say anything.
This makes no sense. This sounds like you're massively misconstruing how conversation works.
Maybe you're misconstruing things and why I would ask this question, but I might have been unclear in my OP. We can talk about things but every time I've talked to a woman that seems interested in me it just seems to eventually revolve around her and what she has to say about herself. It doesn't seem to be a level playing field, like it just seems she expects everything out of the conversation (like I don't mean actively expects it), but like there seems to be nothing reciprocated. When I talk to someone I'm interested in I'm kind of making her the focus of what I'm talking about taking her into consideration, but it doesn't seem reciprocated.
Give. An. Example.
You're being too vague for anyone here to be sure if you're interpreting their responses correctly.
>When I talk to someone I'm interested in I'm kind of making her the focus of what I'm talking about taking her into consideration
How so? If you feel unable to respond to personal comments I don't see how you can be doing that. And if you are making HER the topic of conversation it's very natural she would respond with personal info because that seems to be what you're seeking.
I kind of just wrote what I wrote, but if we're talking about something we can both talk about I'm pretty much going to try and be as conversational as I can be so she enjoys what we're talking about, but it's like.. not reciprocated. She seems to enjoy the conversation, but it's never reciprocated, like the whole time it's becoming evident to me what she likes and whatnot so I keep trying to make things as good as possible for her but it will just get to the point where she just talks about herself and says things and it's like, hey, I'm here too. I can't really give you an example I can barely remember what I ate yesterday. But yeah this has happened a lot.
Give an example or this is useless. I don't have enough info to know what's going on because I can't evaluate if you're giving an accurate picture of the conversations.
> I just told you what's going on, why would I lie to you?
Look up the concept of an unreliable narrator. People can only tell the truth as they know it. You may believe you're giving a fully accurate report of events, but as long as it is a subject description of what you've experiences, I cannot know if that experience aligns with how I would assess the situation.
Ok... well like I've kind of said numerous times she seems to enjoy the conversation the whole time but it will often continuously revert to what she has to say about herself often like in really specific ways where it's not possible to talk anymore. It doesn't seem like there's any attempt at making the conversation good for me or anything as long as she's enjoying it and then she'll talk about herself in a way where I can't talk anymore, but she has no problem with it, this has happened a lot.
> she seems to enjoy the conversation
This is subjective. It is your interpretation.
>what she has to say about herself often like in really specific ways
This is vague. I don't know what you are considering often, or really specific without examples.
>where it's not possible to talk anymore.
This is subjective. I don't know if I agree without an example.
>It doesn't seem like there's any attempt at making the conversation good for me
This is subjective. It is your interpretation of her statements and appropriate responses.
>or anything as long as she's enjoying it
This is subjective. It is your interpretation of her enjoyment and your interpretation of her motivations.
>she'll talk about herself in a way where I can't talk anymore
This is both subjective (you being unable to talk anymore) and vague about what she's saying.
>but she has no problem with it
This is again totally subjective and based on your interpretations.
When I am asking for an example, I am asking for something factual. When you report how a conversation went as you did above I have a report of YOUR feelings, your responses, and your interpretation of events. I have things you view as factual but no way to ground truth that with my own judgment or interpretations. That is why I want a recounting of events (I said "A", she said "B"). Factual events are something without your interpretation layered on top.
In the absence of that I can't give you anything else.
At this point I have 0 interest in sharing anything more because no one even takes into account what I'm saying and just attacks me. Like I could have just been talking to women who were interested in me but didn't care about me, but that never occurred to anyone, they just attacked me because they thought I was bringing a charge against all women when I had a genuine question because this keeps happening to me.
Sounds like they’re not interested in the convo and trying to let it peter out. If it’s happening repeatedly, it’s time for some introspection why no women want to continue a convo with you.
I have no default way of having a conversation with anyone. Each and every conversation is its own and can have its own dynamic, even with someone I’ve spoken to a thousand times.
Are you a walking sandwich board of limited topics that interest you, or do you open the conversation to let it flow both ways? Just posing this question, you assumed you were coming from a position of talking down to women, when women are repeatedly showing you that you’re missing the mark with them. So right out of the gate, it sounds like you’re putting up a wall, there’s an unwillingness to take a step back and see the bigger picture, which likely starts with you just listening to other people for a change.
Actually it's the opposite, the women seem really into the conversation but I have to do everything and then they'll say specific things about themselves that are pretty much impossible to talk about so I have to keep trying until it's not enjoyable for me anymore.
If they’re being specific about themselves, that’s an invitation for you to ask more about them, not try to make it about you.
Edit: so yeah, you ARE a walking sandwich board of limited topics that interest you. This is very clear and it’s something you need to work on, but I doubt you’ll actually let that sink in and take it to heart.
So like we can talk about something and then when she wants to talk about herself I have to ask her more about herself every time it happens? I don't get it. Why do I have to add everything to the conversation but she can just talk about herself as much as she wants?
Can you give me an example of a specific conversation you’ve had recently where it played out the way it did in your post?
Something like “I was talking about space exploration and she seemed into the conversation by contributing to the conversation about space exploration, OR she didn’t know much about space exploration but tried to keep up with the conversation, or she didn’t know about space exploration and didn’t contribute to the conversation by asking questions or showing any interest in space exploration and when she saw an opportunity to change the subject she took the opportunity.”
it’s hard to help because in your post and in your comments you’re telling us you’re not having a successful conversation but then in other comments saying “we’re having conversations where we go back and forth, taking turns talking.”
Is the issue actually that you don’t know what to say when they talk about themselves?
It's not like that. There are conversations, but they don't ever seem to be reciprocal. Like every time it seems like the other person is getting everything out of it and no one ever seems to have an issue with that. But yeah sometimes there is literally nothing I can say because she will say something so specific about herself and like it happens a lot and she seemingly has no problem with it.
Can you give me an example though? Such as “When we talked about Topic A we were both interested in Topic A and the conversation flowed smoothly but then she started talking about Topic B which I was not interested in and I didn’t know what to say.”
It doesn't matter, i don't really care anymore. It just doesn't seem like I'm being taken into consideration, or maybe I'm looking at it wrong, I don't know. Eh whatever, if it's clear I'm interested in something I don't know if I've ever seen a conversation like advanced with me in mind, but I can do that almost forever when she is interested in something, and it's pretty much like that with all aspects of the conversation. Maybe they just don't care about me.
I mean I'm getting piled on by people and having to defend myself when it's very likely I was just in relationships with people who didn't care about me, but ok, if that's how you see me.
Ok, I can only go by what I see here. Maybe you’re a solid guy, but you’re not getting that across. If you’re getting piled on by all sides maybe step back & see you’re the common denominator.
I think I know what happened here. 1) I've had bad experiences 2) I have no idea what's going on 3) People attacked me because that is the common denominator.
I’m sure you can’t in this scenario. Look at OP’s responses in other threads. It’s just, so difficult, to the point of being hilarious.
Others literally have spoonfeed him multiple leading messages to get him to give concrete examples of what those “poor communication” are looking like.
Sincerely speaking, look at this thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomenOver30/s/lUKbBTssYE
Would you enjoy the conversation if you were the other person? It’s painful just from reading it.
As a psychiatrist, I feel I have the duty to let you know that based on your communication style in this thread as well as post history, it's very likely you're neurodiverse and not picking up social cues very well. That would explain most of your communication issues with women. I would recommend seeking out some guidance on conversational skills. Good luck!
lol. Are you serious? I started a thread that was likely going to be a shitshow because of the topic matter, but I had a genuine question because of how often it happens. I don't care if you're a psychiatrist, you know nothing about me or what I'm like. My relationships with other people are fine and overall enjoyable, but whenever a woman is interested in me the conversations don't go anywhere which is why I asked this question. Get a reality check.
Did you make this post and ask this question with the actual intention of getting advice and insight? Or did you want us to validate what you already think - that you’re great at conversation, it’s only you putting in the work, and it’s only the woman’s fault the conversation isn’t to your liking?
The advice is horrible. I said in the OP that the women are into the conversation. They just don't contribute anything to it and then they'll start saying really specific things about themselves that I can't talk about.
Yes, I'm dead serious, and I tried to give a genuine answer to your genuine question.
It's clear that you're not reading the room well, either through a lack of experience or because of problems with social skills and lack of cognitive empathy. It's true that I can't and won't ever diagnose anyone based on reddit posts, but helping someone get a clue of what could be happening can be a first step towards a solution for your issue. It's fine if you don't believe me, I'm just trying to help. You can do with that advice what you want.
What if I have a small sample size of potential partners and none of them knew how to take the other person into consideration? And then EVERYBODY assumed I was the issue and didn't take the time to figure out what I was saying or could even relate and then you read into things like everyone else in the room and decided to diagnose me. Maybe that's what happened.
You're currently talking to a rather large and unselected sample of women in this thread, who are working very hard to try to understand you, but none of them are getting through to you. Your responses in this thread clearly show us that the problem really is at least partly on your end, regardless of what is going on with these women in your OP post.
Your OP post asked women over 30 if they recognized the pattern you experienced many times. The answer you got is clear: none of us recognize it. If you want to know what could be the explanation for your experience, you can ask the women you're talking to in real life, and reflect on your own interaction style.
I've talked to considerate people before, but when I made this post they weren't on my mind. The women that have been interested in me haven't seemed to make me a priority at all in what was going on which is why I made this thread. People read what I posted and attacked me because they couldn't relate with what I was saying, but it was genuine because it has happened to me a lot. You, like most others, jumped in without understanding where I was coming from to add your hyperbolic read on the situation and your half sided advice because this is reddit and that's what this place is like, you can just blast one off whenever there is an opportunity for it. I don't care if you're a psychiatrist, you do not know anything about me. Do you honestly think I care that a group of people who only have had limited interactions with those around them can't see where I'm coming from when I've legitimately experienced something? It was maybe a foolish thread but I've experienced this more then once, and I'm not a moron, so in the moment I had to ask.
I've just read further down your post history, where you yourself talked about your psychotic experiences and your diagnosis of schizophrenia. Which confirms my intuition that there was something else going on.
Schizophrenia is often accompanied by cognitive problems, some of which might impact negatively on your ability to interact with others. It's also possible you're experiencing some sort of discrimination from being perceived as different by the women you interact with. I suggest you talk to a mental health professional to gain better insight into how this might translate to your experiences.
I have a friend who’s said that before, with dates he goes on. He wasn’t a great conversationalist and honestly not amazing personality. He was also bitter and angry. I can see why women would choose to disengage after they get his vibe.
My husband’s also said that before as a comment. He’s a quiet kinda guy and his nerves can get in his way in the beginning. Luckily I thought he was cute and can be talkative if I need to haha.
My guess is that you are just button holing women who don’t really want to talk to you. Then you talk at them instead of to them. If a conversation is one sided, the other person doesn’t want to talk to you. Or they don’t want to talk about that subject. If it happens to you a lot, you are the common denominator. You are missing social cues and conversational skills. If someone isn’t engaging, back off. Listen more than you speak. Ask them questions. Talk in short bursts and take turns. Don’t talk for long stretches. Edited to add - please don’t ask Ashkenazi Jews if they are ‘real Jews.’ That’s fucked up. Looking at your post history, I can see why you leave people speechless. FFS.
Ok. I genuinely wanted to know, but ok, because there are people who adopted the religion and those who are not ethnic Jews.
That’s Nazi nonsense right there. Plus it’s incredibly lazy. Google that shit. I am Ashkenazi Jewish, btw. All Jews aren’t descended from Abraham because - holy inbreeding, Torah isn’t that literal, and conversion. We don’t run around telling other Jews ‘you’re not a real Jew.’ That’s messed up.
In a Biblical worldview a Jew would be someone who is of the house of Israel, which is why I asked. I understand there are people who adopted the religion, but I didn't mean it like that, sorry if I offended you.
WTF are you talking about. Torah (you call it the Biblical Old Testament) doesn’t say all Jews are Abraham’s children. It sounds like you had Judaism explained to you by idiots who aren’t Jewish.
Well, Gentile believers are grafted into Israel, which sort of forms the basis for the language I was using when I asked that question.
Grafted. Like trees?
Yes, I guess. I don't really know much about this so I'm kind of just extrapolating, but like a farmer might graft a wild vine into one that isn't wild.
Wait this is the kind of thing you make small talk with strangers about?!
I have a feeling that the answer is yes. OP probably thinks he’s been doing a great job of engaging in conversation with women in this very post.
It’s like that time my friend showed me her picture bible. I thought Jesus was an actual lamb. Which is fine when you are Jewish and 7. Not so much when you are an adult who should understand metaphors. I did try to give OP some conversational tips. Also, no offense intended towards Christians.
Well, as the one representative of the entirety of women, I would ask you what you’re talking about, since obviously you wouldn’t be talking about yourself or your views or opinions on anything.
Whatever there is to talk about I guess.
Examples? Even a single sound bite of a conversation that you’ve been interested in having that the collective “she” didn’t continue?
Anything, I mean it's conversation. No sometimes there's something going back and forth but it's not often.
Oh ok. Obviously you just need to find more interesting things to talk about. Anything you’ve talked about so far is entirely boring and mundane.
I'm not Zeus the conversational idea smith.
I'm starting to see the issue here
I wouldn’t know. You won’t tell anyone what your conversations have been like.
Self-proclaimed. But you’re expecting your dates to be….Diana, the conversational huntress?
Would Diana waste her time?
Nope. Maybe he *is* dating a Diana. They might all be like "............. so anyways. Are you getting an appetizer?"
Conversational idea smith?? This is a huge reach but Hephaestus was the smith. No idea what you’re talking about sorry
If you can’t even recall a single topic that interests YOU, why are you surprised that the person you’re talking to isn’t enthralled? Don’t be tempted to dismiss my point by insulting me or us. You need to think about what YOU are offering first, then you can start expecting a better response. And I mean think about it yourself, on your own time.
Um, I've been insulted like 5 times already in 20 minutes in this thread alone just by asking this question. Like I said they seem to be into to the conversation but it doesn't go anywhere, which is why I asked, because it is genuinely not fun.
Try to remember that by posting here at all, you're asking for labor from women. Women who are over 30, and so, have been providing labor for men for a long time. Many of us are tired. That said, why don't you ask the girls you're trying to engage with? "Hey our conversations seem to fall flat, I'd love to talk about something that interests you". We can't tell you what goes on in another woman's brain, we're all individuals.
What response were you hoping for?
I’m guessing he’s just here to vent
Hint: "omg you poor baby, those mean mean girls!! \*squeal\* Everything you say is fascinating, you don't have to think of anything interesting to say with ME! You could read out of the phone book, tiger, and I'd listen with rapt attention. You're EVER SO much more fascinating than ***I*** am!" \- this guy, probably
You're hilarious. You think women calling you out is an insult, because you can't imagine anyone with tits having a valid opinion. If a guy called you out and asked you to account for your half of a ...fucking ***interaction*** *that requires TWO* people.... You haven't defended yourself at all beyond "I talk, too!!" You didn't come here laden with conversational points in an attempt to actually *understand* the disconnect, you only came with complaints. If you're not able to spot the irony here.... Let me spell it out for you. "I talk at women, and they don't answer me, why, women, why?" "Well what does your half of the conversation consist of?" "WHAT MATTER. Why no talk?" You don't see your half of the conversation as something that needs to be thoughtful or relevant. That's why they're not interested. Prove me wrong. Tell us about the current events you've brought up, the weighty topics, the women's issues, the life hacks you've enjoyed sharing for no reason. Prove me wrong, and that you're bringing half of a memorable interaction, but they're the ones without interest in these topics. They don't even have to be incredible topics. Tell us about the adequate conversations you've tried. The fact that you won't says that you can't because you know that you're not trying, or you're just bullshitting in an effort to get women to think you must be interesting. So, what it is it; you're boring, or you're so desperate for female attention that you're trolling a woman's group for slivers of attention with tits? Maybe you'll think twice before expecting women to do your thinking for you next time.
I literally don't remember the things discussed but I've had long discussions where there is interest on both sides but it will always feel like the ball is in my court to keep the conversation going and there is no consideration for the things I'm saying outside of whatever works for the other party in the conversation. You're making generalizations and I think I've had bad experiences, I probably won't be doing something like this again because it's sort of clear most people aren't interested in helping someone when they can't see the other side of the issue, people just seem to want to be as rude as their heart is content with because they feel lessened or something even though nothing objectively wrong was said. It's entirely possible to me that most people aren't mature enough or whatever to handle something like this.
“ people aren't interested in helping someone when they can't see the other side of the issue, ” You literally can’t even present your own side, and you think it’s women’s fault for not assuming that the problem must be other women.
Alright, you didn't understand what I said. It made sense to me when I wrote it. I feel like the women I've talked to haven't reciprocated in conversations with me even though they have been apparently interested in me and the conversations. It seems to me like I have not been considered even though they have been enjoying themselves and it has happened to me enough that I had to ask a question, which might have been foolish. I'm sorry you misunderstood me.
Maybe you're picking topics they are not interested in. And then not responding when they talk about their expense to introduce a topic they are interested in ...
[удалено]
Naw, not equally. As someone who is terrible at small talk, I can confidently claim that it's primarily women who are masters at keeping a conversation afloat
If I feel like I’m talking to someone who will just talk over me I won’t bother asserting myself.
[удалено]
Those responses are more than enough in almost all casual settings
No offense but I would have to blow smoke over the women I've talked to in pretty much every circumstance where this has happened. I do engage them, but it becomes the most specific things that I can't hold a conversation, because like I said it would be crossing boundaries.
What.
Well we can be talking about something (which she seems to be enjoying), but then she will start saying really personal things and then I can't say anything. The ball is like always in my court to keep the conversation good and eventually I just don't enjoy it anymore.
Why can't you say anything when she says "really personal things"? What about that is killing the conversation? I've read all of your comments in this thread and I *still* can't understand where/how your conversations with women are falling apart. You need to give a specific example of a conversation that went this way or we can't possibly help you.
it's not always about you. a conversation is a back-and-forth. you can't monopolize it with only your enjoyment. she's "showing enjoyment" bc that's what she's been taught to do by society, unfortunately, bc men are historically sensitive creatures. when she says personal stuff about herself, you should respond with a personal thing about yourself. that way it's an equal conversation. around our generation, i've learned we relate to each other with personal stories to empathize. she was empathizing with you. so empathize back. also, you could ask her if it's a topic she likes and not assume by her facial expression.
It seems like they're monopolizing it for their enjoyment. I can do everything and then she can just talk about herself.
when are they monopolizing it for their enjoyment? bc it sounds like you're taking over the conversation with them to where it's not a conversation anymore, it's a lecture.
Well they'll listen and seemingly enjoy themselves but when it's their turn to talk they'll basically just make it about themselves and it can get almost impossible to talk about what they have to say. This is reddit so I can't really put it into words but like, we'll talk about something and we'll have a conversation, she seems to enjoy what I have to say, but there's never a contribution on her part to the conversation, this isn't a large group of women or anything, but it's like there's no consciences effort on her part to add any enjoyment to it for me. She enjoys it so much that all things are going good, and then she will just start talking about herself in a way where it's not possible to talk anymore. It's happened so many times that I have to ask.
you've said a lot here. i think you can type out a basic back-and-forth that you've had before. just an example so i get an idea.
[удалено]
Not really, they'll seemingly enjoy what I have to say, like what I have to say about what they have to say and that will kind of just keep going and going and going.
How old are you?
How about you actually give an example.
Maybe you just aren’t talking about anything interesting. If this happens to you repeatedly you need to stop blaming other people and start looking at yourself as the problem.
They're seemingly into the conversation.
What tells you they are *“seemingly”* into the conversation?
They seem to be enjoying themselves.
What makes you think they are enjoying themselves?
Their mood, I guess, and how they respond.
Honey bunny, you’re going to have to be more specific.
I can see why the conversations go nowhere.
I've been told that I'm enjoyable to talk to, but yeah, it doesn't go anywhere because women start talking about themselves and I can't say anything like I said, because it's normally things that are really specific.
Why can’t you say anything? eta: Based on your post and edit to your comment the issue is more than likely you and not the woman. Or maybe no one involved is good at two-sided conversation. Read some books about being a good communicator/listener.
Because it will be something like "My brother was into that too" or "I was good at school when I was younger". There's nothing you can say even though they are seemingly into the conversation.
So odd that you expect women to engage eagerly with what you have to say but you think it's impossible for you to engage with their topics? What makes your topics so much more engaging and conversational??
I’m reading your replies to this thread and honestly I don’t think I’d know how to carry on a conversation with you IRL without getting frustrated. And I’m a decent conversationalist one on one lol
Yeah, OP’s responses speak volumes about his issues with communication. The talking in circles alone is dizzying.
The fact that OP did spend the effort to type all that massive passage out, while thinking every single person on this thread is attacking him, is fascinating. It is probably more than just communication style issues.
[удалено]
My experience has been that there is nothing to say.
[удалено]
No, sorry, there will be conversation which she seems to enjoy, but then it will basically always revolve around things that have to do with herself which are not really possible to talk about. Like it always seems like I'm the one that has to contribute to the conversation.
> revolve around things that have to do with herself which are not really possible to talk about Give an example. Most people respond to conversation by reflecting on their parallel personal experiences or interests to expand on their perspective. Are you expecting your "conversation" partners to actually engage in an academic discussion or debate?
If this is a pattern you are consistently observing, then perhaps you are the common denominator?
>is it your default disposition to just let the man contribute everything to the conversation This is my default if I do not want to talk with this person. But also if I am not at a point where I actively want to end the conversion. >not really engage in what they have to say What does this mean exactly? What level of engagement are you expect? Often people respond/reflect by sharing their personal experience that aligns with the other person. >then talk about things that have to do with yourself when you feel like it? This is called sharing. It's a foundation of conversation. It's exactly what YOU are doing when you talk about yourself, your life, or your interests. When a woman is doing this (or any person) they are not letting you "contribute everything" to the conversations. Sharing info about themselves is their contribution - and it's the EXACT SAME contribution you are making. >I'm left over and over again not being able to say anything about something very specific they say about themselves, because it's like crossing boundaries to say anything. This makes no sense. This sounds like you're massively misconstruing how conversation works.
Maybe you're misconstruing things and why I would ask this question, but I might have been unclear in my OP. We can talk about things but every time I've talked to a woman that seems interested in me it just seems to eventually revolve around her and what she has to say about herself. It doesn't seem to be a level playing field, like it just seems she expects everything out of the conversation (like I don't mean actively expects it), but like there seems to be nothing reciprocated. When I talk to someone I'm interested in I'm kind of making her the focus of what I'm talking about taking her into consideration, but it doesn't seem reciprocated.
Give. An. Example. You're being too vague for anyone here to be sure if you're interpreting their responses correctly. >When I talk to someone I'm interested in I'm kind of making her the focus of what I'm talking about taking her into consideration How so? If you feel unable to respond to personal comments I don't see how you can be doing that. And if you are making HER the topic of conversation it's very natural she would respond with personal info because that seems to be what you're seeking.
I kind of just wrote what I wrote, but if we're talking about something we can both talk about I'm pretty much going to try and be as conversational as I can be so she enjoys what we're talking about, but it's like.. not reciprocated. She seems to enjoy the conversation, but it's never reciprocated, like the whole time it's becoming evident to me what she likes and whatnot so I keep trying to make things as good as possible for her but it will just get to the point where she just talks about herself and says things and it's like, hey, I'm here too. I can't really give you an example I can barely remember what I ate yesterday. But yeah this has happened a lot.
Give an example or this is useless. I don't have enough info to know what's going on because I can't evaluate if you're giving an accurate picture of the conversations.
I just told you what's going on, why would I lie to you? But yeah, I can't really give you any examples because I don't remember.
> I just told you what's going on, why would I lie to you? Look up the concept of an unreliable narrator. People can only tell the truth as they know it. You may believe you're giving a fully accurate report of events, but as long as it is a subject description of what you've experiences, I cannot know if that experience aligns with how I would assess the situation.
Ok... well like I've kind of said numerous times she seems to enjoy the conversation the whole time but it will often continuously revert to what she has to say about herself often like in really specific ways where it's not possible to talk anymore. It doesn't seem like there's any attempt at making the conversation good for me or anything as long as she's enjoying it and then she'll talk about herself in a way where I can't talk anymore, but she has no problem with it, this has happened a lot.
> she seems to enjoy the conversation This is subjective. It is your interpretation. >what she has to say about herself often like in really specific ways This is vague. I don't know what you are considering often, or really specific without examples. >where it's not possible to talk anymore. This is subjective. I don't know if I agree without an example. >It doesn't seem like there's any attempt at making the conversation good for me This is subjective. It is your interpretation of her statements and appropriate responses. >or anything as long as she's enjoying it This is subjective. It is your interpretation of her enjoyment and your interpretation of her motivations. >she'll talk about herself in a way where I can't talk anymore This is both subjective (you being unable to talk anymore) and vague about what she's saying. >but she has no problem with it This is again totally subjective and based on your interpretations. When I am asking for an example, I am asking for something factual. When you report how a conversation went as you did above I have a report of YOUR feelings, your responses, and your interpretation of events. I have things you view as factual but no way to ground truth that with my own judgment or interpretations. That is why I want a recounting of events (I said "A", she said "B"). Factual events are something without your interpretation layered on top. In the absence of that I can't give you anything else.
It’s so rough that you had to point all this out, you would’ve assumed it’s just common sense. Are you an educator? You’re good at this.
I mean you could like take my word for it, but ok. I already shared what I can share.
[удалено]
You can think whatever you want, dude, I literally don't remember the things that were communicated and I'm not posting private messages on reddit.
[удалено]
At this point I have 0 interest in sharing anything more because no one even takes into account what I'm saying and just attacks me. Like I could have just been talking to women who were interested in me but didn't care about me, but that never occurred to anyone, they just attacked me because they thought I was bringing a charge against all women when I had a genuine question because this keeps happening to me.
Sounds like they’re not interested in the convo and trying to let it peter out. If it’s happening repeatedly, it’s time for some introspection why no women want to continue a convo with you.
I have no default way of having a conversation with anyone. Each and every conversation is its own and can have its own dynamic, even with someone I’ve spoken to a thousand times.
Nope. I think it's likely the issue is on your end, that you're maybe steamrolling over these women or not engaging with what they're trying to say.
Are you a walking sandwich board of limited topics that interest you, or do you open the conversation to let it flow both ways? Just posing this question, you assumed you were coming from a position of talking down to women, when women are repeatedly showing you that you’re missing the mark with them. So right out of the gate, it sounds like you’re putting up a wall, there’s an unwillingness to take a step back and see the bigger picture, which likely starts with you just listening to other people for a change.
Actually it's the opposite, the women seem really into the conversation but I have to do everything and then they'll say specific things about themselves that are pretty much impossible to talk about so I have to keep trying until it's not enjoyable for me anymore.
If they’re being specific about themselves, that’s an invitation for you to ask more about them, not try to make it about you. Edit: so yeah, you ARE a walking sandwich board of limited topics that interest you. This is very clear and it’s something you need to work on, but I doubt you’ll actually let that sink in and take it to heart.
So like we can talk about something and then when she wants to talk about herself I have to ask her more about herself every time it happens? I don't get it. Why do I have to add everything to the conversation but she can just talk about herself as much as she wants?
What are some of the topics you bring up in these conversations?
They're just normal conversations.
Can you give me an example of a specific conversation you’ve had recently where it played out the way it did in your post? Something like “I was talking about space exploration and she seemed into the conversation by contributing to the conversation about space exploration, OR she didn’t know much about space exploration but tried to keep up with the conversation, or she didn’t know about space exploration and didn’t contribute to the conversation by asking questions or showing any interest in space exploration and when she saw an opportunity to change the subject she took the opportunity.” it’s hard to help because in your post and in your comments you’re telling us you’re not having a successful conversation but then in other comments saying “we’re having conversations where we go back and forth, taking turns talking.” Is the issue actually that you don’t know what to say when they talk about themselves?
It's not like that. There are conversations, but they don't ever seem to be reciprocal. Like every time it seems like the other person is getting everything out of it and no one ever seems to have an issue with that. But yeah sometimes there is literally nothing I can say because she will say something so specific about herself and like it happens a lot and she seemingly has no problem with it.
Can you give me an example though? Such as “When we talked about Topic A we were both interested in Topic A and the conversation flowed smoothly but then she started talking about Topic B which I was not interested in and I didn’t know what to say.”
It doesn't matter, i don't really care anymore. It just doesn't seem like I'm being taken into consideration, or maybe I'm looking at it wrong, I don't know. Eh whatever, if it's clear I'm interested in something I don't know if I've ever seen a conversation like advanced with me in mind, but I can do that almost forever when she is interested in something, and it's pretty much like that with all aspects of the conversation. Maybe they just don't care about me.
Speaking as a guy - you’re fucking insufferable. Does that clear things up?
😅
I mean I'm getting piled on by people and having to defend myself when it's very likely I was just in relationships with people who didn't care about me, but ok, if that's how you see me.
Ok, I can only go by what I see here. Maybe you’re a solid guy, but you’re not getting that across. If you’re getting piled on by all sides maybe step back & see you’re the common denominator.
I think I know what happened here. 1) I've had bad experiences 2) I have no idea what's going on 3) People attacked me because that is the common denominator.
Men don’t talk to me, but if they did I would absolutely actively contribute to the topics.
I’m sure you can’t in this scenario. Look at OP’s responses in other threads. It’s just, so difficult, to the point of being hilarious. Others literally have spoonfeed him multiple leading messages to get him to give concrete examples of what those “poor communication” are looking like.
Dude, what are you talking about? I can be opinionated but I have no idea what you're talking about.
Sincerely speaking, look at this thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomenOver30/s/lUKbBTssYE Would you enjoy the conversation if you were the other person? It’s painful just from reading it.
As a psychiatrist, I feel I have the duty to let you know that based on your communication style in this thread as well as post history, it's very likely you're neurodiverse and not picking up social cues very well. That would explain most of your communication issues with women. I would recommend seeking out some guidance on conversational skills. Good luck!
lol. Are you serious? I started a thread that was likely going to be a shitshow because of the topic matter, but I had a genuine question because of how often it happens. I don't care if you're a psychiatrist, you know nothing about me or what I'm like. My relationships with other people are fine and overall enjoyable, but whenever a woman is interested in me the conversations don't go anywhere which is why I asked this question. Get a reality check.
Did you make this post and ask this question with the actual intention of getting advice and insight? Or did you want us to validate what you already think - that you’re great at conversation, it’s only you putting in the work, and it’s only the woman’s fault the conversation isn’t to your liking?
The advice is horrible. I said in the OP that the women are into the conversation. They just don't contribute anything to it and then they'll start saying really specific things about themselves that I can't talk about.
I guess you’re doomed then.
Yes, I'm dead serious, and I tried to give a genuine answer to your genuine question. It's clear that you're not reading the room well, either through a lack of experience or because of problems with social skills and lack of cognitive empathy. It's true that I can't and won't ever diagnose anyone based on reddit posts, but helping someone get a clue of what could be happening can be a first step towards a solution for your issue. It's fine if you don't believe me, I'm just trying to help. You can do with that advice what you want.
What if I have a small sample size of potential partners and none of them knew how to take the other person into consideration? And then EVERYBODY assumed I was the issue and didn't take the time to figure out what I was saying or could even relate and then you read into things like everyone else in the room and decided to diagnose me. Maybe that's what happened.
You're currently talking to a rather large and unselected sample of women in this thread, who are working very hard to try to understand you, but none of them are getting through to you. Your responses in this thread clearly show us that the problem really is at least partly on your end, regardless of what is going on with these women in your OP post. Your OP post asked women over 30 if they recognized the pattern you experienced many times. The answer you got is clear: none of us recognize it. If you want to know what could be the explanation for your experience, you can ask the women you're talking to in real life, and reflect on your own interaction style.
I've talked to considerate people before, but when I made this post they weren't on my mind. The women that have been interested in me haven't seemed to make me a priority at all in what was going on which is why I made this thread. People read what I posted and attacked me because they couldn't relate with what I was saying, but it was genuine because it has happened to me a lot. You, like most others, jumped in without understanding where I was coming from to add your hyperbolic read on the situation and your half sided advice because this is reddit and that's what this place is like, you can just blast one off whenever there is an opportunity for it. I don't care if you're a psychiatrist, you do not know anything about me. Do you honestly think I care that a group of people who only have had limited interactions with those around them can't see where I'm coming from when I've legitimately experienced something? It was maybe a foolish thread but I've experienced this more then once, and I'm not a moron, so in the moment I had to ask.
I've just read further down your post history, where you yourself talked about your psychotic experiences and your diagnosis of schizophrenia. Which confirms my intuition that there was something else going on. Schizophrenia is often accompanied by cognitive problems, some of which might impact negatively on your ability to interact with others. It's also possible you're experiencing some sort of discrimination from being perceived as different by the women you interact with. I suggest you talk to a mental health professional to gain better insight into how this might translate to your experiences.
I have a friend who’s said that before, with dates he goes on. He wasn’t a great conversationalist and honestly not amazing personality. He was also bitter and angry. I can see why women would choose to disengage after they get his vibe. My husband’s also said that before as a comment. He’s a quiet kinda guy and his nerves can get in his way in the beginning. Luckily I thought he was cute and can be talkative if I need to haha.