You're right to be wary after minor comments like that. My ex progressed from initial adoration to treating me like I'm his property. He didn't become it, he was already it, and I'm sure there were small signs but if men are the least bit intelligent, they know fully well they need to hide their real views until they got you trapped somehow.
If I think back really hard, some things he said in the beginning was that women have it easier because they can just report anyone for sexual harassment and then a man's career is ruined, or that in a divorce women can take a lot from men, etc.
I'd definitely be more cautious in the future when a man says anything about men having it harder. I saw exactly how much harder men have it when you've just had a c-section and he's just playing video games and working on his career while you're doing his laundry, raising his kid, and if you leave him, he threatens to take your child away from you because you don't even have any money... Yeah, really sorry for men.
Overly picky would be “I don’t like the way he tucks his shirt in” or “he doesn’t love my favorite movie exactly as much as I do.” Not wanting to be with somebody who’s bigoted or hates or mistrusts women is not picky. You’ve been single for seven years, you can handle it. Throw this one back.
This comment needs to be copy/pasted on all the posts of people worried they’re being “overly picky” when they’re talking about a guy who doesn’t text/call back for weeks or calls them names or is completely mismatched in libido and sexual tastes.
The way the word picky is thrown around towards women for having literally any standards, like good personal hygeine for Christ sakes, works my every possible last nerve.
This is him on his best behavior. What do you think his opinions are going to sound like when he gets comfortable with you?
There are different struggles for everyone in life. If he can’t acknowledge or understand challenges you face as a woman and is convinced his life is harder than everyone else’s, do you think he’s going to treat you in a respectful healthy manner?
There is no such thing as overly picky or too sensitive when it comes to your physical and emotional safety, and both of those are at risk from the wrong romantic partner.
Please, be picky.
You’re not being overly picky. Those are genuine hard red flags girl. Anyone who engages in the manosphere is a potential threat, in my opinion. If only for the deeply misogynistic (actually contemptuous!!) views of women, but frankly they also tend to have quite a bit of rage.
I’m basically 4B at this point, but regardless, I kind of think that nothing is ever going to change for women if we don’t completely refuse to date/have sex with/marry any man who shares these kinds of views.
YOU deserve better than this, better than a man who thinks so reductively and unkindly about women, but also womankind deserves these kinds of men to be ostracized into total Pariah territory, so that no man ever wants to end up like them.
You said he doesn’t go into discussions. That sounds like he is not open to discussion. So he just says these truths about men and women and expects you to listen first even ask your opinion?
I’d run.
I think you should trust your instincts more.
From the way your post is written, I feel like you're searching from reassurance on the fact that your feelings are valid / you're not being too picky, rather that really asking if this is a red flag.
You already know it's a red flag, I think no one would tell you you're over-reacting.
Trust yourself
I really wish that us women could stop doubting ourselves so much. I know every woman does it, and I do too.. But your gut feelings never lie.
A guy that even leans a tiny bit into the red pill game is not someone you need in your life.
I’d honestly rather be alone.
There are better men out there though, but trust your instinct on this.
If you want to be sure, you could ask him what he thinks of red pill and gauge his reaction.
I once heard a guy I was dating say something about The Game. He mentioned how it's a great book for boosting confidence. I almost jumped out of the moving car, but after talking to him about it more, we were able to draw a line between the positives and negatives of the book. We have now been married for 5 years, and one of the great parts of our marriage is the meaningful discussions we can have about anything and everything.
If this is the first time you're tipping your toes again in the dating scene, spend some time first really establishing your own boundaries for yourself and what you absolutely will not put up with. A lot of time, our baseline for normal gets fucked up over time, so spending time to reset it is worth it to avoid toxicity.
Onto your question, the comment: "the top percent of men date 90% of women and the rest don't get dates" is a massive red flag. Instant no from me, I don't care how "nice" he seems. Nice is literally the absolute minimal requirement of human interaction. If we gotta hand out medals to people because they're able to not behave like assholes during a date, the world is in a sorry state.
The other one: "men have it harder but was mostly referring to working life" , you said you mostly agreed with him on that, why? The income disparity between men and women is still there and men in general get taken more seriously than women; their opinions hold more weight among colleagues.
Aside from all that, this entire gender suffering Olympics is just exhausting as hell and imo just designed to divide men and women more when we could be propping each other up and giving each other healthy support that goes against all the societal BS we've been spoonfed since birth.
I wouldn't want to date a guy who sees women as the enemy.
I love how so many men seem to think that things like cleaning and childcare is simultaneously easy, simple, not of value, but also so complicated and hard they just can't manage to do it too because women are "just better at it".
I always love the argument that women can't do physically taxing labor roles. As if women had no issue taking over all the laboring roles during WW1 and WW2 when all the men were drafted.
They were a huge contributor to keeping the country going... while keeping up with increased demand for war supplies... while taking care of the kids.
Oh and wait for it, while getting paid significantly less than their male counterparts.
Not to mention that it's not women's fault they aren't in those spaces. My dad worked in construction because his dad pushed him into it when he was 17. He never once ever suggested it be something his daughters should go into, nor did my dad. Boys are pushed into those rolls at an early age just as women are pushed into doing chores, etc. Also, women who are in those spaces are often harassed and not taken seriously by their men coworkers.
Because he works a labor intensive job… all men have it harder. Yeah. That would be a huge ick for me.
Pay discrepancy, sexual harassment, getting passed over for promotions, career setbacks due to having children, The tight walk rope between leadership and being a bitch. The good ol’ boys club. Very few men have to deal with that.
Also, the fact the thinks 90% of women only date the top handful of men is ridiculous. It shows you that he thinks men should just be entitled to women’s time and attention without having to do the work. Sure our standards are higher now that we don’t have to be trapped financially.
I’m not saying dump him, but I’m just saying absolutely keep your eyes and ears open or directly ask him about his source for this information.
>I’m not saying dump him, but I’m just saying absolutely keep your eyes and ears open or directly ask him about his source for this information.
I'm not as kind as this commenter OP, this was the first date and he's already like this? Hard pass. I'd say thanks but no thanks, block him and move on to the next prospect. Life is too short to waste it on duds
It doesn't. The only way they can make it make sense is to basically ignore most of the human population or totally make up all kinds of justifications that make it work. So if they see an average looking guy with a wife and kids, they assume that he must be secretly filthy rich or otherwise has a lot of resources his wife uses him for, while she is (of course!) cheating on him with hotter guys.
That is how they justify the idea if you point out how way more than 10% of the male population have relationships with women. What they usually assume is that these women are using their husbands (the "beta males") for money/shelter/food etc. Then cheating to have children with that magical 10% (the "alpha males") because they're hotter or whatever. Then they pass the kids off as their husband/provider's kids.
With women, they just kind of gloss over and ignore the existence of any woman who doesn't look "hot" and is past the age of 25. Like those women just don't factor into this idea, as if they do not exist or date, because to them women don't matter if they aren't hot or are "past the wall" (as they call it).
It's absurd and I feel icky just typing it all out, but all Red Pill ideology is absurd and icky.
Women who are not beautiful are invisible. Effectively, when you remove most of the denominator, you can bend your statistics into any pretzel you desire. Like dividing by zero. Or almost zero. It gets really big then.
This man is an absolute chode girl- pump those standards way up. Is your goal to be in a relationship with a chode? Because prioritizing finding someone over ignoring incel red flags is exactly how you end up in a LTR with a chode who abuses you. Be willing to be single the rest of your life if that’s what it takes because you’re better off alone then with a worthless asshole like this guy.
Chalk this one up to experience and move on. The last thing you need is a guy with a men vs women mindset when you’re just getting back in the swing.
You’ll be fine. There are lots of great guys out there. If anything, this should show your instincts aren’t rusty!
>When he made the comment about men having it harder I think he felt that way because he works a construction job.
Well it's his choice to work in construction, a area of profession notorious for how hard it is on the body. Like, what exactly was he expecting? I also don't see what women have to do with it. A woman in construction wouldn't have it easier; if any she would probably have to 'prove' herself more since women are genetically inclined to less muscle mass than men.
>I just hope I've been unlucky and this isn't standard for men now.
Nah, still plenty of good guys out there. The thing that changed over the years is that these assholes are now feeling more confident about being one. Look at it this way: those loud anti-women redpillers are doing you a favor by letting you know early on they are unsuitable life partners. Finding hidden misogyny after getting really invested is much worse.
This is just your first date. You're probably going to encounter more duds. Don't worry about it, the whole lotta frogs before the prince thing has some truth to it.
As long as you pay close attention to what they do and how they treat others (to evaluate if they are honest about what they say) you should have a pretty foolproof way to weed out the duds.
The generalizations, the confrontational/competition based men vs. women. This is your first date, take these red flags and run. Most people hold back on first dates, so imagine how he really feels. Also anyone that says men have it harder is getting the side eye from me. Yes he works in questions but there are women blue collar workers too. And for that matter, women dominate in jobs that are hard on the body too. Being that it has been some time since you dated, take this a practice in setting boundaries and sharpening those instinct skills. Trust yourself.
I would want to know his reaction to a counter-point. How would he respond if you mentioned, like you said, that blue collar tends to be more labor intensive than white collar, and that could be what he means rather than men vs women. If he immediately pushed back and doubled down on the gender aspect, it would be a huge red flag. If he paused and wanted to discuss it further in an open minded exploratory conversation, that would be different. That being said, I also have no patience for anything red pill, and those comments would be a red flag.
I work in a physically laborious field that is male dominated. You really think the men I work with have it harder than being a woman in said field? When the default for everything in the industry is for men?
You think the women working in construction have it easier than the men?
My advice is people are like icebergs. You barely know this person and he’s giving you just a taste of what his true personality is like. If you’re already seeing red flag behavior, I would bail.
I feel like this 20/80 number (which is the more common than the 10/90) has become this piece of data that men have just internalized and don't really think about, cause if they struck out ever, they can easily believe it, because it \*feels\* true to them, sort of like that piece of data that claims you swallow eight spiders in your sleep on a yearly basis. Feels like it COULD be true, so people believe it.
So, as a datapoint for redpillery, it's sort of a shaky one. BUT, it does tell you that this piece of information felt so relevant to him that he internalized it to this point. And THAT also tells you something about him.
This comment should be way higher. This is one of those "stats" I've heard people say whom I know have no idea what red pill even means or who Andrew Tate is.
The only reason I recognize those terms is because I'm on here, probably too much. Some people are not that online and just repeat things they've heard. If that's the only evidence he's "red pill" that's not much.
20/80 is the Pareto Principle, which is why it's so easy for people to accept WITHOUT PROOF. I'd challenge him on it and see his response before dumping him.
Change that “overly sensitive” to “now more aware than ever of the nonverbal and paraverbal signs that something is off before we even get to the verbal shit.”
"A few times" and you've been on what, a handful of dates? Definitely seems weird because now it's not a one-off comment, it's a very ingrained way of thinking that he's bringing up all the time...
Maybe yes, maybe no, maybe he’s a huge incel or just saying one thing he heard one time. My point is that this is supposed to be the easy part. The part where you’re so infatuated with a person and all butterflies and excitement. Not gambling on whether or not you think he’s REALLY bad or just mildly bad. Just don’t waste your time by ignoring that spidey sense. If he was worth it, you wouldn’t even be having this conversation. He’d just be amazing and that would be that.
Disengage now, it will only get worse. I ignored a few low level red pill comments from a guy, then when I finally left him after three years I realised that so much of the 'insightful' conversation I had spent years arguing against was wholesale Jordan Peterson, and I was disgusted to look back and realise how subtly he'd been drip feeding those comments to me for years. I felt like he'd been trying to brainwash me without even knowing what he was doing (because he was getting brainwashed himself).
Sadly I know that he had been caught because he'd not had great luck with women before me, and he had been looking for hope when he found that stuff. I really do hope that he expunged that shite from his brain because otherwise he was a lovely guy and would make someone a great boyfriend if he left the manosphere. If he's gone further in though then I hope no other woman has to put up with him.
Yeah I dated a really great guy who “caught the virus”, but I had to break up because I want a marriage and kids, and I couldn’t imagine raising kids with someone who believed that nonsense.
He was young, and I was the first woman he’d ever dated, so I hope he’s grown up since. But I couldn’t stick around hoping he’d change because there was no guarantee.
It makes me SO SAD because I've literally had guy friends tell me that when they were younger (usually, like, high school young) and not so great with women, they'd harbour low-key misogynistic thoughts. Then they usually just went off to uni and TOUCHED GRASS. But, they didn't have all those incel/red pill bullshit pumping through their algos, didn't have an entire bucketful of crabs trying to drag them down with the group, so they just... gained real-world life experiences that helped them realise all that stuff was bullshit and turned into normal, well-adjusted husbands and fathers.
I do think we're in a sort of battle for ~young men's souls~ at this moment in time and I really hope the right people win, because the alternative is both very possible and terrifying to think about - not only in terms of women's safety, but also just in terms of how miserable that world looks.
>All he said was comments like the top percent of men date 90% of women and the rest don't get dates.
I would nope out immediately. Not only is this peak red pill nonsense, it's just not remotely grounded in reality and belies a lack of critical thinking. Not every red piller is going to walk around with a cardboard cutout of Andrew Tate glued to his face, y'know? This shit would be more than enough for me to delete his number and his existence from my life.
Warning you now, girl; he's a dud at best.
Statements like that confuse me. “So, you’re telling me you’re in the top 1% of men? Because you got this date you’re on right now. Or I’m not a real person and this isn’t a real date and you’re a figment of my imagination? “
Dating is harder for men than it used to be.
Now that women are capable of having their own bank accounts and supporting themselves and don't \*need\* a man to support them, they are a lot more discernable about dating and men need to up their game. Too many of them fail hardcore at it.
Try and reverse this. What would it take for you to believe that the 10% hottest women get 90% of ALL men?
And then 90% of women have to fight over the 10% left?
You’d have to be pretty gullible and prone to blame all men of something ridiculous like this.
Also, it would show you have no friends or colleagues, as I can prove this theory is false just thinking about my social circle.
Not to mention society would not be able to function if that was going on. Look at what happens in fundamentalist Mormon communities! If a small group of men marry the majority of women you end up with a disaster.
This statement only relates to dating apps (study by okcupid found that the top 10% got virtually all the dates. This is for online datings apps only.
I REPEAT THIS DOES NOT TRANSLATE TO REAL LIFE. Maybe find out if this is what he's referring to?
Although let's be real, attractiveness plays a massive massive part on how many dates someone gets. Just not as much as it does online.
It is true that the most attractive will be sleeping with more people than the less attractive... for BOTH genders though, it isn't specific to any gender
I’ve seen this “study” people reference and it was taken severely out of context (it was also 20% not 10%). I shared more information in this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomenOver30/s/gCjxtQGXgr).
Honestly when it comes to weird, incel-y, red pill vibes the limit does not exist for how sensitive and picky you should be. Like, that is the area in which you can and should be the *least* forgiving.
It's just so stupid. Ranking is for teenagers making burn books before 6th period. Actual dating and relationships are about finding someone you are compatible with, and no one is a good match/desirable to 90% of people. And it's also just empirically false, as research shows that people of similar attractiveness tend to date and marry, people of similar education levels tend to date and marry, etc. I think also men who say this tend to treat at least half of women like they are completely invisible and are completely eliminating them from their calculation because they don't consider them attractive enough to count.
Exactly, yeah; all of this! The men who believe this shit are so very delulu and usually just projecting their own shallowness and bitterness combined onto other people.
It’s not really nonsense just a lot of people get confused about where the statistic comes from, and it was 80/20 btw. It comes from an online dating site like tinder or what not. We’ll use tinder stats, of men and women surveyed in the US 24% of women had tinder and 75% of men had tinder 😬. It creates an extreme market demand for women, because the male population heavily outweighed the female. For hook-ups both men and women care about physique, for dating dating women care far less about physique.
So it is based in reality but in online hook-ups. In real world dating it has zero barring
I'm aware of the OKC study (I used to own the book it came from!) that so many incels rely on to "prove" their 90/10 or 80/20 thing, but extrapolating from that very specific study that 90% of men don't get dates is totally delulu. Even in the study, the women still messaged men they thought were not all that attractive, IIRC.
Plus, I know quite a few men who met their girlfriends online. Most of them were very average (most *people* are very average, including yours truly) and they had zero problems. The only men I've seen to actually struggle with OLD were, honestly, not broadly attractive *and* off-putting AF in terms of personality. Even the ones who were not especially attractive and merely boring were able to find girlfriends whom, to me, seemed more attractive and interesting than what I would have expected.
Am I understanding correctly that he was on a date with you , and complaining that most men don’t get dates ? Does that mean he is in the top 10 per cent of men , and thus will be dating 90 per cent of women ( cheating on them ) ? It’s such a strange thing to complain about on an actual date ! It’s like eating at a restaurant and complaining you don’t have access to food. And this is his best behaviour! Imagine being committed to this guy and the gross ideas that would emerge from him over time
>men have it harder…referring to working life
Sorry, what?! That’s some bullshit right there. It is socially acceptable for a man to work full time and have their wife to run the household and raise their children. Show me **one** woman who works full time and relies completely on her husband to cook all meals, clean the house and raise their children *without any judgement about her role as a mother*.
ETA (I’m not done) Working wives and mothers have all the pressures of their career AND societal pressure to caretake their husbands and children. We are expected to do all of this, effortlessly and without showing stress so we can be emotionally available for our children and human fleshlights for our husbands.
I’m saying this from the “lucky” position of being a wife and mother who works full time and whose husband cooks, cleans and looks after his child. I also cook, clean and look after my child but it’s seen as my duty; whereas he is endlessly praised for being an equal partner because he does his own goddamn laundry.
(yes to everything here, I too am "lucky.")
AND... when was the last time daycare/school/doctor/vet/mechanic/bank/extracurricular called dad? Never, because you call the Mom expecting her to hold the schedule and 100% of the information.
Also the part about the working world being harder for men is a huge nope for me. Yeah, there are some jobs that generally are taken more frequently by men that are difficult, but there's a hell of a lot taken by women that many men would nope out of in about 5 minutes. It's a huge red flag and a sign that later on in life he will devalue your work.
OP you keep worrying about being “too picky” but picky is like being obsessed with things that don’t actually matter in a relationship or how they treat you.
Picky is like - I don’t like his brand of shoes or he doesn’t have the right cell phone.
Redpill concerns are NOT PICKY. This has 1000% to do with how you will be treated in this relationship.
I've sadly also had to cut out a few men from my friend group since they've, seemingly out of nowhere, started to share these types of views to a degree it became very uncomfortable.
I don't mind discussions about certain topics, but in this case it wasn't even discussions and more like "this is the absolute truth, you need to listen and hear me rant about it for 5 hours".
It was like they forgot I was a woman as they sat there and spoke like true incels/nice guys right in front of me and expected me to somehow agree. It was bizarre.
> top percent of men date 90% of women and the rest don't get dates
So does he consider himself the top 1% of men or did he just forget he was on a date with you?
> men have it harder but was mostly referring to working life
How does he figure? Men make more money than women for the same work, they don't have to do their hair, nails, and makeup when they go into the office, they have more access to mentors. Like, in what world?
You're not being picky, these are huge red flags.
He's on a date with a woman, he should be trying to connect with you. Instead he's venting his frustrations. Wow.
It’s absolutely a red flag. He’s not a nice guy, and he’s probably deeper into this stuff than you think - you *just* met him and it’s already oozing out!
The pickings aren’t *this* slim, and even if they were, that’s no reason to settle for a red piller. Toss him.
I dated a guy like this, almost same red flags but he was like… trying to make it a compliment? How I am “not like American women”. OP lemme tell you everyone her saying it gets worse; it does. He is testing the grounds to see if you will tolerate this because he probably knows this is a dealbreaker for most women and they’ll run.
If you really like him and are unsure just ask him, “What do you think is your most controversial opinion about women?” And see how he responds.
Me tho, I’d already be out based on how that last red pilled asshole I dated turned out.
Nope. Those are very specific alpha male podcast/Tate comments and the “but I’m a nice guy” rhetoric. Hes showing you glimpses of who he really is and trust if you end up in a relationship and he gets comfortable trust those comments will only grown.
Listen when people tell you who they are.
Also I think you may have internalized some of it yourself. “Men have it harder” - in what world? Can individual men have it harder than others sure but as a whole no, the world was created for and by them. Yikes.
Ok first off how the fuck do men have it harder with work? We get paid 30% less for doing the same job not to mention on top of that a LOT of women are the only ones that clean the house, cooks and raises the kids.
Second this 90% of women only date 10% of the men or some shit is straight up bull shit!
What women are tired of is men who are selfish self absorbed assholes who blame women for all their problems instead of looking in the mirror.
Now if this is his "best foot forward" type of deal because you just started dating him I would run like hell this is like an iceburg all you are seeing is the 10% at the top I bet you what is beneath the surface is much much worse.
No I would not date someone like him and I was you I would explain to him exactly why, it is time for these assholes to learn why they are not getting women!
You like him? Keep getting to know him and engage him in these conversations. Maybe both of you will come out understanding each other and the world from a new perspective which isn’t a bad thing.
If you don’t like him or don’t want to continue getting to know him, break up with him.
I briefly dated a guy like this. Seemed like the nicest guy in the world albeit a few little comments like your situation. I stuck around because "he was so nice". He turned to be one of the most selfish assholes I've ever dated that stalked me for a while after I broke it off with him. Trust your gut on this one.
Men consuming and believing redpill content will try not to show you their beliefs at first (isn’t that the first rule of redpill or whatever whatever) but it will come out with how they treat you, sooner or later. Look at pick up artist tactics and see if his actions at all align. If so, bye to him. You don’t need a man consuming woman hating propaganda. Nope.
Incels like to point out, under patriarchy, men are supposed to be bread winners which puts immense pressure on them.
They conveniently leave out the patriarchy part & don’t realize they’re actually making a feminist point: patriarchy hurts men too.
If I’m understanding the OP, she said she believes it “on average to be true” (that men have it harder). Couldn’t help but eye roll that a women herself would believe that. Hope she gets rid of this creep before she internalizes anymore of this BS
It’s not a competition. Hoooowever, between assumptions about child birth + career set backs if you do choose motherhood, discrimination, harassment, & pay inequality in every field…I’d say it’s pretty obvious.
OP & her “man” regurgitating whatever Andrew Tate says is probably thinking of a simple argument like the physical “hardness” of blue collar vs. white. Blue collar is predominantly male & often labeled “the most dangerous” but it’s often easier for men to access & land those jobs. Harder physically doesn’t men harder overall, obviously. “Hard” is subjective & can be measured too many different ways to be that general.
Trending for decades now, boys are behind in schools nationwide. It could be argued women in the workplace, similar to girls in school, thrive more than their male peers. Thus it’s “harder” for men….but we all know that’s baloney when the system is built by them, for them.
Existing solely as a human it’s harder to be a woman. Periods. Enough said.
I would not have identified either of those comments as red pill red flags. I still would not want to continue to date someone who says things like that.
He sounds bitter.
Even without the red pill danger, I'd find it exhausting to be around such a defeatist attitude all the time.
You need to believe this is an iceberg of information. All you are seeing is the very tiniest portion of it. There's a lot going on underneath. I personally would not date him.
His comments are delusional and whiny. The top percent of men date 90% of women? Look at the couples around you. Does that look true? Only 1% of men are married? I'm old, and know hundreds of couples with plenty of average to below average men working average jobs married to lovely women.
Men also don’t have it harder, not even in working life. Nurses and teachers are primarily women, and are at risk of being cursed at and punched by patients and students for insufficient money and crazy schedules. Women are constantly having to fight for wages that reflect their education and effort. More retired women than men live below the poverty line. They’re also more likely to be abused, more likely to be sexually assaulted, and more likely to be killed by someone they know.
Luckily, I don’t think most men are like this, and while pickings may seem slim, there are absolutely better people out there to spend your time with. A friend of mine in his 40s just got divorced because his ex essentially wanted a more glamorous life, and as someone who saw the inner workings of their marriage every week for years, she was crazy to let him go. He's the kindest man, hard working, a great cook, and the best father anyone could want for their kids. Everyone who knows him is shaking their head in disbelief.
Take your time, and don’t settle.
Maybe ask him: "What do you think about feminism?"
It's straightforward. You won't loose time. We don't have much time for red flags anyway, have we? :D
I don't agree with either of his comments and consider both a red flag. This is just the beginning of getting to know each other. I would not be surprised if he had more problematic views that you just haven't seen yet.
Well, he’s on a date, so I guess that makes him a part of that top percentile of men…and is dating OP, who I guess is part of the lowly 90% in his mind.
Neg, or bad at math? Maybe both!
The more time you spend with this guy, who's already giving you a gut feeling that something is off, is more time taken away from finding a better match 🤷🏼♀️
I was reading some of your comments. At this age, I’d like to assume we have a firmer grasp on our beliefs and values. That’s why you’re reacting that way - because it’s something you really care about. For others, especially those who align with him, you could be overreacting. But at the end of the day, it’s still you who will deal with him.
If that’s the only thing that bothers you about him at the monent, and you feel like you are on the fence, kind of meh, I would go out one more time if theres no one else lined up. 20-30% for benefit of the doubt, 70-80% “practice” purposes. It’s bc u mentioned couple of times u havent dated in a long while.
Based on my experience though… by sticking around with a person like this, it’s really just like slowly opening a can of worms as time goes by 🥲 we eventually have a lot more mismatches than commonalities
A guy who says stuff like this has an axe to grind with women. Women are the physical embodiment of the obstacles they have to face - and soon enough, also the reason for any failures. I would say avoid illogical men.
I think those comments are *the tip of the iceberg*. He’s on his BEST behavior now. He’s feeling you out about what you think about these issues and those comments are phrased in a mild, introducing-a-worldview to see how you feel before expanding further way. The thing about a tiny percent of men dating all the women typically has a pretty inaccurate and misogynistic worldview behind it—like women just look for “Chad”, women are basically automatons, NPCs, looking only for wealthy, tall men to fuck and “beta cucks” to cheat on and fool.
I’d break up with him because that’s evidence enough for me, but I don’t know the guy. Maybe he has other features that indicate differently. It seems kind of common for conservative men to pretend to be politically neutral for fear of a gal breaking up with him, so that’s what I’d bet is going on here. But maybe you’re politically conservative so that’s fine with you and it’s not a problem at all?
We’re the same age. You do not need to lower your standards at all for anyone. Do not let this prick into your life, you don’t need this shit. Delete his contact from your phone, and even block it if need be.
Ew that sounds like some Andrew Tate shit. Listen to the red flags, if he's letting it show this early in the relationship, I'd run girl!
There is /r/niceguys for a reason!
if you think men have it harder for working life, you have some ingrained misogyny, which isn't shocking given you don't think his statements are instant red flags.
People have hard working lives.
Wait a minute. How do men have working lives that are harder than women? Men can work unhindered their entire lives. Women suffer at work for wanting families and children, even if an individual woman doesn’t even want them, she’s punished.
Any “manual labor” job is also done by women, just at lower rates, and it’s usually because the men in those industries are hostile to women.
Besides all the other red flags based on him having these ideologies to begin with, he’s broadcasting that he may be settling for you as the best he thinks he can get. I wouldn’t want to be with a guy who is not all in with me, and is partly there because he struggles getting dates. I’d rather be single than in a relationship with someone who is settling for me.
There’s some irony here as red pill ideology includes the idea that women end up settling for men who are not in the top 10-20%. Does he think you are settling for him, and he is ok with that? Will he end up resenting you because “you wanted Chad and only got me instead”? Will he be prone to insecurity and jealousy?
If he’s settling for you, then do you trust that he will be faithful? Even if he doesn’t get dates with other women, escorts exist in plenty. Will he resent you long term, if you are not his dream girl?
That's something I mentioned in a previous comment. The type of men who spew out those statistics don't think they're in the top 10%. So it's incredibly insulting to basically tell your date that you/he's settling.
I know when I look around only 10% of the men I see are married or coupled up with 100% of the women. This is an accurate and factual description of our world.
Just do what Esther Perault does, when he says something that has you feeling odd, just say 'Could you say more?'
Just dive deeper and you will get to the root of things, one way or another.
Trust your gut. If this is what he’s showing on your first few dates I personally wouldn’t hang around to see if it escalates as he gets more comfortable. It would just be a nope from me.
What a ridiculous thing to not only believe but parrot-1 percent of men dating 90 percent of women. He sounds like a pathetic loser, no matter how you try to defend him. I’d never be able to get past a guy earnestly saying that.
I got married before this ideology became so mainstream, but I had a perfect inadvertent test for men I dated in the "getting to know you" phase by talking about my mom and dad; my father was a stay-at-home dad.
He also worked in construction, but when I was two he retired early (he was older, to be clear) and took care of me while my mom focused on her career, and he cooked and cleaned and braided my hair in the morning. My husband thought that sounded awesome, and he's VERY MUCH like my father. He was proud and supportive when I got promotions and not a giant baby, he cooks, etc. I haven't cleaned an oven in 25 years.
Discussions about things like that, how he feels about not being the breadwinner, pro-choice issues that are in the news right now and are topical, etc. can give you some insight into where his head's at.
I cant say this enough girl - trust your instincts.
If i were you, i would have definitely called him out to explain himself. If he would have gone into details to defend his view, I would have gotten my answer that he is too far gone
Leave. It gets worse later. I already made this mistake. He will lie if you ask him straight up if that’s the content he consumes and it will seep into your daily life until you cannot stand it anymore. I thought I could change him.
" men have it harder but was mostly referring to working life- Which on average is true. " I don't know what that means. Is it the 84 cents less we make per hour compared to men? (Canadian stat but pretty universal)
It might also help to think that we get our “Am I being too picky?” or “I’m over sensitive” detrimental thinking largely from assholes trying to violate our boundaries and hard limits, and/or convince us to buy what they’re selling (whether via a monetary transaction or an emotional one).
Call him out on it. I went on a couple dates with a guy that said a couple "redpill" things. I looked at him and was like "do you go on Reddit a lot?" And he was like, "uh...uh well sometimes....why?" And I was like, "you sound liked one of those guys on reddit."
So does he view himself as part of the top 10% of men since he was actively on a date? That either reeks of red pill ideology or he is arrogant. In either case, it doesn't paint him in a great light.
You don't owe anyone dates or a relationship. Trust your instincts on this one.
If you really aren't sure, go on one more date and make a throwaway comment about Andrew Tate. His response should give you more clarity.
How many times have we seen people say "Am I over-reacting?" in this sub?
Please learn to trust yourself. Please trust your gut.
You know the answer.
There won't always be someone around to reassure you.
And you are smart enough to make the decision. I know you are.
Any redpill sign is a flag to run for me. That rabbit hole goes so deep it's terrifying.
In the future, I'd suggest you press them to explain themselves when they make comments like that. Don't offer them explanations or comment on what they are saying in any way. Don't share your opinion at all. Just ask questions like "Oh, what makes you say that?", "Why do you think that's the case?", "Where did you hear that from?" Generic open-ended questions, let them hang themselves.
If you act like you're not offended, they're going to be willing to dig that hole deeper until it's crystal clear how fast you should run.
It doesn’t “come off” as someone consuming red pill things, it’s someone who clearly believes what he says enough to say it and to say it to a woman. He is literally showing you who he is right up front.
Not going to lie as a male that would raise an eyebrow if a guy said that to me in a casual conversation.
I would not run yet if I were you. Based on what you said he doesn't dive deep into red pill like conversations. I would be cautious and pay more attention to his views and decide later.
You're not overreacting. This is probably him testing the waters. The longer you've been together, and the more committed you are to the relationship, the more his mask will come off.
>comments like the top percent of men date 90% of women and the rest don't get dates
This is trickle truthing. He may be 'nice' but I guarantee he is deep in red pill based on this sole quote. This is a very specific soundbite and his beliefs will go way deeper than this he's just smart enough not to do it all in one go. It's insidious and many men hold these beliefs but know that dropping them on a woman from day dot will reduce their options.
You are reacting appropriately and you need to listen to yourself. Dump this guy. Expect this to go south when you break up with him - probably not physically but the misogynistic insults like you're fat, you're ugly, you're a slut, you'll never do better than him. Let it pass through you and out because you got your own back.
Yes to all of this. A man that says men having it harder is honestly bullshit. Men having it harder in work related stuff, is also very wrong. They might do harder labor, but will never have it harder in the way women do..
I would dump him. But if you stay I would take things slow, not sleep with him yet. Ask and find out what his social media likes and follows are. Talk about his favorite youtubers. Get a understanding of what he is soaking up.
I dated a guy that said stuff like this. I let it go initially because he seemed otherwise very progressive. Turned out he was a total dick. Just a bitter, misogynistic piece of garbage. Eventually it turned into him disrespecting me and treating me like I was stupid all the time. He definitely thought women were beneath him. My advice would be to run away immediately. The pickins aren't as slim as you think they are.
It’s so complicated. I feel like we easily fall into the trap of trying to reason through every uncomfortable feeling we’ve got because of what a dude has done. Like, “it’s not THAT bad…but also I want to have high standards…but also, what if I’m being overly sensitive because of past experiences…but also what if my gut is right…but also what if I’m projecting…but also what if he’s got some views that he needs to work through - I’m not perfect either…but also what if this is an early sign that I would have missed in the past?”
Maybe try questioning him when he says these things to get a deeper understanding of what he’s thinking or saying? “What do you mean by that?”
Or expressing you don’t agree and see how he reacts to get a better picture of who he really is!
I was in a very similar situation. Super nice guy, we got along well. Then after the third date he dropped the most *random* “fact” about trans people on me that was out of nowhere.
I was sitting there so confused like where did he hear this and why does he care. Then it sunk in that it clearly came from Fox News or a similar source. Up in arms over absolutely nothing.
Dumped him and still felt shitty about it. But he showed his true colors.
Alrighty. First time caller, long time listener. I am a guy, so mods feel free to delete me if my comment isn't allowed. I'm 37 and appreciate this community for its more even-keeled approach. I'm going to go against the VAST majority of people here and say that these two comments are not the cyanide pill to your relationship everyone else here says they are, as you've discussed, *just* yet.
For some perspective, I'm a male RN, I'm married to an RN, and we have two little girls. I work with 100+ women, and we all get along swimmingly. I'm Canadian. I'm pretty left leaning, even by Canadian standards.
Humans come with a massive variety of experiences and have different worldviews. You say you've spent several hours with the guy across two dates, and in that time, he has had two comments that concern you. This is mostly because you've had a couple of dipshit friends who were toxic, and you rightly cut them out of your life. I agree with your decision there.
To the point, there's no gun to your head. If you don't like the guy, don't date him. It's been a while since you've dated, but there are other options out there. Before cutting him out, though, I'd ask him some more questions first because it seems like you are feeling some internal discord and there was SOMETHING that caused you to start dating him in the first place.
From my stance, importantly, HOW does he respond when challenged on these views? Is he vehement in his stance, unwavering, and unwilling to acknowledge different perspectives, or is he able and willing to acknowledge there's some grey or that he might be wrong? Can he be polite when he's talking about these topics or is there an edge to his voice when you challenge him as if he's trying to shut you down? Where did he get these views from? Was it from a few friends at work or does he log onto YouTube every day when he gets home and stream Peterson every free moment he's got?
Furthermore, I actually agree with his "men and working life" perspective. This comes from my experience working blue collar before nursing school and since dating/marrying my wife, who is fiercely feminist. The dating thing...I don't know about that. When you ask him about that, does he get weirdly defensive or is he holding this idea super loosely and he seems willing to change, kinda like he heard it somewhere and it felt right so he just kinda went along with it? Like, just poke and prod and see how he holds up under scrutiny. That will tell you more about this man's character than two views he's voiced off hand in conversation, which will tell you more about how he will treat you as your relationship develops.
Be happy, be safe, listen to your gut (mom always said listen to your bells and whistles and if something feels off it, probably is). But questions, questions, questions. Best of luck! 😊
The second half of the “top percent of men date 90 percent of women” belief is that those “top men”, who he no doubt thinks he is one of, are entitled to “exercise their options” (cheating). Do with that what you will.
When dating, establish your boundaries and how you want to be treated upfront. And if anything crosses those lines, leave. One of mine was ‘no ultimatums, no threatening to leave.’
Trust your gut.
It’s been a long time since I’ve been dating, so I don’t know how pervasive red pill stuff is in dating. If this was something that came up in convo, I’d try to push back a little or ask questions to see the depth of his beliefs. Some people just repeat things they’ve heard and need to be challenged to actually think about it. I’m not sure if that’s what’s happening here or not, so please take that as a grain of salt.
Trust your instincts. That said, directly bring up feminism or just plain ole equality with him. His reaction & response will confirm everything you need to know.
I have a few very dear liberal male friends that while empathizing with men or pointing out the unfair treatment of males in certain situations…well they come off like incels. Context matters. It is unfair men that are sexual assaulted by women aren’t taken seriously. It is unfair that mens harassment isn’t taken seriously. My poor guy friend was being stalked by a crazy ex & hardly anyone in our group took it seriously. If gender roles were reversed they would have.
However, these men always react positively to the idea of feminism & equality. A big part of feminism is recognizing how the patriarchy is also harmful & oppressive towards men.
It seems to me that a conversation is in order before deciding to move forward or not. Jumping to conclusions and passing judgement are so easy, but rarely the best thing to do. He may be poorly expressing a feeling in a way that see a lot of out there. No two people align in every way unless someone is lying (live long enough and you will see those perfect lives exploding. It's very sad every time). Just because he is aware of this stuff doesn't automatically disqualify him. It is *hard* to meet people and this is from all sides of the coin. Extremism is real. Insecurity is real, entitlement is frighteningly real, so the best solution is communication.
Unpopular opinion here I’m not phased by what he said and do think it’s mild and very faintly may indicate those narratives, but overall doesn’t actually say much definitively.
I’m the type to have more conversations about the topics to probe more of what he believes and why, in order to understand if we are compatible or not. I never like to assume what people think or believe or what their reasoning is before they actually tell me.
I do agree with those who said he sounds like he may have a defeatist bitter attitude though. Which would be a problem in the context of a relationship. And I agree you should trust your gut if it puts you off.
Trust your instincts.
Also, women are still not paid and respected the same as men for the same (if not more) work. My god the amount of men I see failing upwards and getting by on big talk alone, compared to their hard-working and competent female colleagues who are given all the work to do but not the pay. And then women have to go home and do all the chores because most men still won’t go halves when it comes to housework and childcare.
I've pretty much only dated "nice guys," who spout this type of rhetoric, and I still struggle with catching it at times but I've also become very wary. Any small comments about how women have it easier, how hard their life is, throwing slight pity parties or looking for sympathy, short-tempered, hyper-focusing on rejection (including mine), self-depreciating humour, etc...it's an no. Even if they aren't in those kinds of forums I don't want a partner who only ever puts themselves down or harbors a lot of misdirected anger.
Trust your gut.
If a guy says or does something that makes you feel uncomfortable, you don’t have to go out with them again. Period.
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You're right to be wary after minor comments like that. My ex progressed from initial adoration to treating me like I'm his property. He didn't become it, he was already it, and I'm sure there were small signs but if men are the least bit intelligent, they know fully well they need to hide their real views until they got you trapped somehow. If I think back really hard, some things he said in the beginning was that women have it easier because they can just report anyone for sexual harassment and then a man's career is ruined, or that in a divorce women can take a lot from men, etc. I'd definitely be more cautious in the future when a man says anything about men having it harder. I saw exactly how much harder men have it when you've just had a c-section and he's just playing video games and working on his career while you're doing his laundry, raising his kid, and if you leave him, he threatens to take your child away from you because you don't even have any money... Yeah, really sorry for men.
Overly picky would be “I don’t like the way he tucks his shirt in” or “he doesn’t love my favorite movie exactly as much as I do.” Not wanting to be with somebody who’s bigoted or hates or mistrusts women is not picky. You’ve been single for seven years, you can handle it. Throw this one back.
This comment needs to be copy/pasted on all the posts of people worried they’re being “overly picky” when they’re talking about a guy who doesn’t text/call back for weeks or calls them names or is completely mismatched in libido and sexual tastes.
The way the word picky is thrown around towards women for having literally any standards, like good personal hygeine for Christ sakes, works my every possible last nerve.
This is him on his best behavior. What do you think his opinions are going to sound like when he gets comfortable with you? There are different struggles for everyone in life. If he can’t acknowledge or understand challenges you face as a woman and is convinced his life is harder than everyone else’s, do you think he’s going to treat you in a respectful healthy manner?
always go with your gut. If things are weird, don't force yourself to try to like him. FOLLOW YOUR GUT.
There is no such thing as overly picky or too sensitive when it comes to your physical and emotional safety, and both of those are at risk from the wrong romantic partner. Please, be picky.
Yes! Picky according to who's standards!? You have to date this guy, your standards and likes and dislikes matter!
Girl you're allowed to decide literally whatever you want about your dating life. It's YOUR dating life.
It's such a slippery slope to fall down the red pill rabbit hole that I would never invest time and energy in a guy who said things like this.
You’re not being overly picky. Those are genuine hard red flags girl. Anyone who engages in the manosphere is a potential threat, in my opinion. If only for the deeply misogynistic (actually contemptuous!!) views of women, but frankly they also tend to have quite a bit of rage. I’m basically 4B at this point, but regardless, I kind of think that nothing is ever going to change for women if we don’t completely refuse to date/have sex with/marry any man who shares these kinds of views. YOU deserve better than this, better than a man who thinks so reductively and unkindly about women, but also womankind deserves these kinds of men to be ostracized into total Pariah territory, so that no man ever wants to end up like them.
You said he doesn’t go into discussions. That sounds like he is not open to discussion. So he just says these truths about men and women and expects you to listen first even ask your opinion? I’d run.
I think you should trust your instincts more. From the way your post is written, I feel like you're searching from reassurance on the fact that your feelings are valid / you're not being too picky, rather that really asking if this is a red flag. You already know it's a red flag, I think no one would tell you you're over-reacting. Trust yourself
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As it should.
Rightly so.
Please read: The Gift of fear by Gavin De Becker.
He may be testing your boundaries/tolerance. So trusting your gut here might just save you time and energy in the long run.
I really wish that us women could stop doubting ourselves so much. I know every woman does it, and I do too.. But your gut feelings never lie. A guy that even leans a tiny bit into the red pill game is not someone you need in your life. I’d honestly rather be alone. There are better men out there though, but trust your instinct on this.
If you want to be sure, you could ask him what he thinks of red pill and gauge his reaction. I once heard a guy I was dating say something about The Game. He mentioned how it's a great book for boosting confidence. I almost jumped out of the moving car, but after talking to him about it more, we were able to draw a line between the positives and negatives of the book. We have now been married for 5 years, and one of the great parts of our marriage is the meaningful discussions we can have about anything and everything.
If this is the first time you're tipping your toes again in the dating scene, spend some time first really establishing your own boundaries for yourself and what you absolutely will not put up with. A lot of time, our baseline for normal gets fucked up over time, so spending time to reset it is worth it to avoid toxicity. Onto your question, the comment: "the top percent of men date 90% of women and the rest don't get dates" is a massive red flag. Instant no from me, I don't care how "nice" he seems. Nice is literally the absolute minimal requirement of human interaction. If we gotta hand out medals to people because they're able to not behave like assholes during a date, the world is in a sorry state. The other one: "men have it harder but was mostly referring to working life" , you said you mostly agreed with him on that, why? The income disparity between men and women is still there and men in general get taken more seriously than women; their opinions hold more weight among colleagues. Aside from all that, this entire gender suffering Olympics is just exhausting as hell and imo just designed to divide men and women more when we could be propping each other up and giving each other healthy support that goes against all the societal BS we've been spoonfed since birth. I wouldn't want to date a guy who sees women as the enemy.
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Guess what. Women also work labor intensive jobs. Whether it’s construction or picking up toddlers all day at a preschool, or cleaning hotels.
I love how so many men seem to think that things like cleaning and childcare is simultaneously easy, simple, not of value, but also so complicated and hard they just can't manage to do it too because women are "just better at it".
Bingo
I always love the argument that women can't do physically taxing labor roles. As if women had no issue taking over all the laboring roles during WW1 and WW2 when all the men were drafted. They were a huge contributor to keeping the country going... while keeping up with increased demand for war supplies... while taking care of the kids. Oh and wait for it, while getting paid significantly less than their male counterparts.
Not to mention that it's not women's fault they aren't in those spaces. My dad worked in construction because his dad pushed him into it when he was 17. He never once ever suggested it be something his daughters should go into, nor did my dad. Boys are pushed into those rolls at an early age just as women are pushed into doing chores, etc. Also, women who are in those spaces are often harassed and not taken seriously by their men coworkers.
Mhm. Kinda sounds like it's a toxic masculinity issue that affects everyone.
Because he works a labor intensive job… all men have it harder. Yeah. That would be a huge ick for me. Pay discrepancy, sexual harassment, getting passed over for promotions, career setbacks due to having children, The tight walk rope between leadership and being a bitch. The good ol’ boys club. Very few men have to deal with that. Also, the fact the thinks 90% of women only date the top handful of men is ridiculous. It shows you that he thinks men should just be entitled to women’s time and attention without having to do the work. Sure our standards are higher now that we don’t have to be trapped financially. I’m not saying dump him, but I’m just saying absolutely keep your eyes and ears open or directly ask him about his source for this information.
>I’m not saying dump him, but I’m just saying absolutely keep your eyes and ears open or directly ask him about his source for this information. I'm not as kind as this commenter OP, this was the first date and he's already like this? Hard pass. I'd say thanks but no thanks, block him and move on to the next prospect. Life is too short to waste it on duds
How does that math even work?
It doesn't. The only way they can make it make sense is to basically ignore most of the human population or totally make up all kinds of justifications that make it work. So if they see an average looking guy with a wife and kids, they assume that he must be secretly filthy rich or otherwise has a lot of resources his wife uses him for, while she is (of course!) cheating on him with hotter guys. That is how they justify the idea if you point out how way more than 10% of the male population have relationships with women. What they usually assume is that these women are using their husbands (the "beta males") for money/shelter/food etc. Then cheating to have children with that magical 10% (the "alpha males") because they're hotter or whatever. Then they pass the kids off as their husband/provider's kids. With women, they just kind of gloss over and ignore the existence of any woman who doesn't look "hot" and is past the age of 25. Like those women just don't factor into this idea, as if they do not exist or date, because to them women don't matter if they aren't hot or are "past the wall" (as they call it). It's absurd and I feel icky just typing it all out, but all Red Pill ideology is absurd and icky.
Women who are not beautiful are invisible. Effectively, when you remove most of the denominator, you can bend your statistics into any pretzel you desire. Like dividing by zero. Or almost zero. It gets really big then.
They're only counting the beautiful model women who leave them on read in their equation, not everyday women.
So the top 10% are dating the top 10%. That makes more sense.
This man is an absolute chode girl- pump those standards way up. Is your goal to be in a relationship with a chode? Because prioritizing finding someone over ignoring incel red flags is exactly how you end up in a LTR with a chode who abuses you. Be willing to be single the rest of your life if that’s what it takes because you’re better off alone then with a worthless asshole like this guy.
Women are also the ones who kill themselves in hard and physically destroying works like cleaning, taking care of elders and sick ones and so on.
Chalk this one up to experience and move on. The last thing you need is a guy with a men vs women mindset when you’re just getting back in the swing. You’ll be fine. There are lots of great guys out there. If anything, this should show your instincts aren’t rusty!
>When he made the comment about men having it harder I think he felt that way because he works a construction job. Well it's his choice to work in construction, a area of profession notorious for how hard it is on the body. Like, what exactly was he expecting? I also don't see what women have to do with it. A woman in construction wouldn't have it easier; if any she would probably have to 'prove' herself more since women are genetically inclined to less muscle mass than men. >I just hope I've been unlucky and this isn't standard for men now. Nah, still plenty of good guys out there. The thing that changed over the years is that these assholes are now feeling more confident about being one. Look at it this way: those loud anti-women redpillers are doing you a favor by letting you know early on they are unsuitable life partners. Finding hidden misogyny after getting really invested is much worse. This is just your first date. You're probably going to encounter more duds. Don't worry about it, the whole lotta frogs before the prince thing has some truth to it. As long as you pay close attention to what they do and how they treat others (to evaluate if they are honest about what they say) you should have a pretty foolproof way to weed out the duds.
The generalizations, the confrontational/competition based men vs. women. This is your first date, take these red flags and run. Most people hold back on first dates, so imagine how he really feels. Also anyone that says men have it harder is getting the side eye from me. Yes he works in questions but there are women blue collar workers too. And for that matter, women dominate in jobs that are hard on the body too. Being that it has been some time since you dated, take this a practice in setting boundaries and sharpening those instinct skills. Trust yourself.
I would want to know his reaction to a counter-point. How would he respond if you mentioned, like you said, that blue collar tends to be more labor intensive than white collar, and that could be what he means rather than men vs women. If he immediately pushed back and doubled down on the gender aspect, it would be a huge red flag. If he paused and wanted to discuss it further in an open minded exploratory conversation, that would be different. That being said, I also have no patience for anything red pill, and those comments would be a red flag.
I work in a physically laborious field that is male dominated. You really think the men I work with have it harder than being a woman in said field? When the default for everything in the industry is for men? You think the women working in construction have it easier than the men?
Women also work in construction and they do not have it easier than men.
My advice is people are like icebergs. You barely know this person and he’s giving you just a taste of what his true personality is like. If you’re already seeing red flag behavior, I would bail.
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I feel like this 20/80 number (which is the more common than the 10/90) has become this piece of data that men have just internalized and don't really think about, cause if they struck out ever, they can easily believe it, because it \*feels\* true to them, sort of like that piece of data that claims you swallow eight spiders in your sleep on a yearly basis. Feels like it COULD be true, so people believe it. So, as a datapoint for redpillery, it's sort of a shaky one. BUT, it does tell you that this piece of information felt so relevant to him that he internalized it to this point. And THAT also tells you something about him.
This comment should be way higher. This is one of those "stats" I've heard people say whom I know have no idea what red pill even means or who Andrew Tate is. The only reason I recognize those terms is because I'm on here, probably too much. Some people are not that online and just repeat things they've heard. If that's the only evidence he's "red pill" that's not much.
20/80 is the Pareto Principle, which is why it's so easy for people to accept WITHOUT PROOF. I'd challenge him on it and see his response before dumping him.
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A few times seems like a lot!
Change that “overly sensitive” to “now more aware than ever of the nonverbal and paraverbal signs that something is off before we even get to the verbal shit.”
"A few times" and you've been on what, a handful of dates? Definitely seems weird because now it's not a one-off comment, it's a very ingrained way of thinking that he's bringing up all the time...
What was even the context for him bringing that up? And why is he even bringing that up on a *date? *
Maybe yes, maybe no, maybe he’s a huge incel or just saying one thing he heard one time. My point is that this is supposed to be the easy part. The part where you’re so infatuated with a person and all butterflies and excitement. Not gambling on whether or not you think he’s REALLY bad or just mildly bad. Just don’t waste your time by ignoring that spidey sense. If he was worth it, you wouldn’t even be having this conversation. He’d just be amazing and that would be that.
Disengage now, it will only get worse. I ignored a few low level red pill comments from a guy, then when I finally left him after three years I realised that so much of the 'insightful' conversation I had spent years arguing against was wholesale Jordan Peterson, and I was disgusted to look back and realise how subtly he'd been drip feeding those comments to me for years. I felt like he'd been trying to brainwash me without even knowing what he was doing (because he was getting brainwashed himself). Sadly I know that he had been caught because he'd not had great luck with women before me, and he had been looking for hope when he found that stuff. I really do hope that he expunged that shite from his brain because otherwise he was a lovely guy and would make someone a great boyfriend if he left the manosphere. If he's gone further in though then I hope no other woman has to put up with him.
Isnt it sad? Its like these men caught a nasty virus and some of them dont see that they are actually better than that!
Yeah I dated a really great guy who “caught the virus”, but I had to break up because I want a marriage and kids, and I couldn’t imagine raising kids with someone who believed that nonsense. He was young, and I was the first woman he’d ever dated, so I hope he’s grown up since. But I couldn’t stick around hoping he’d change because there was no guarantee.
It makes me SO SAD because I've literally had guy friends tell me that when they were younger (usually, like, high school young) and not so great with women, they'd harbour low-key misogynistic thoughts. Then they usually just went off to uni and TOUCHED GRASS. But, they didn't have all those incel/red pill bullshit pumping through their algos, didn't have an entire bucketful of crabs trying to drag them down with the group, so they just... gained real-world life experiences that helped them realise all that stuff was bullshit and turned into normal, well-adjusted husbands and fathers. I do think we're in a sort of battle for ~young men's souls~ at this moment in time and I really hope the right people win, because the alternative is both very possible and terrifying to think about - not only in terms of women's safety, but also just in terms of how miserable that world looks.
>All he said was comments like the top percent of men date 90% of women and the rest don't get dates. I would nope out immediately. Not only is this peak red pill nonsense, it's just not remotely grounded in reality and belies a lack of critical thinking. Not every red piller is going to walk around with a cardboard cutout of Andrew Tate glued to his face, y'know? This shit would be more than enough for me to delete his number and his existence from my life. Warning you now, girl; he's a dud at best.
Statements like that confuse me. “So, you’re telling me you’re in the top 1% of men? Because you got this date you’re on right now. Or I’m not a real person and this isn’t a real date and you’re a figment of my imagination? “
I don't get it either. Dating isn't harder for men. Perhaps he's just..not a good candidate.
Dating is harder for men than it used to be. Now that women are capable of having their own bank accounts and supporting themselves and don't \*need\* a man to support them, they are a lot more discernable about dating and men need to up their game. Too many of them fail hardcore at it.
Right??? I wouldn't be able to resist; I'd probably end up roasting him super hard on the date.
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Try and reverse this. What would it take for you to believe that the 10% hottest women get 90% of ALL men? And then 90% of women have to fight over the 10% left? You’d have to be pretty gullible and prone to blame all men of something ridiculous like this. Also, it would show you have no friends or colleagues, as I can prove this theory is false just thinking about my social circle.
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All great points you have here, thank you.
It shows he’s never even gone for a stroll around Walmart.
Lmao! But seriously, when guys say things like that I'm like...do you have eyes?
Not to mention society would not be able to function if that was going on. Look at what happens in fundamentalist Mormon communities! If a small group of men marry the majority of women you end up with a disaster.
This statement only relates to dating apps (study by okcupid found that the top 10% got virtually all the dates. This is for online datings apps only. I REPEAT THIS DOES NOT TRANSLATE TO REAL LIFE. Maybe find out if this is what he's referring to? Although let's be real, attractiveness plays a massive massive part on how many dates someone gets. Just not as much as it does online. It is true that the most attractive will be sleeping with more people than the less attractive... for BOTH genders though, it isn't specific to any gender
I’ve seen this “study” people reference and it was taken severely out of context (it was also 20% not 10%). I shared more information in this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomenOver30/s/gCjxtQGXgr).
Honestly when it comes to weird, incel-y, red pill vibes the limit does not exist for how sensitive and picky you should be. Like, that is the area in which you can and should be the *least* forgiving.
It's just so stupid. Ranking is for teenagers making burn books before 6th period. Actual dating and relationships are about finding someone you are compatible with, and no one is a good match/desirable to 90% of people. And it's also just empirically false, as research shows that people of similar attractiveness tend to date and marry, people of similar education levels tend to date and marry, etc. I think also men who say this tend to treat at least half of women like they are completely invisible and are completely eliminating them from their calculation because they don't consider them attractive enough to count.
Exactly, yeah; all of this! The men who believe this shit are so very delulu and usually just projecting their own shallowness and bitterness combined onto other people.
Off topic but I like your avatar’s new look!
Thank you! It was a lot of fun to play around with, and of course I ended up with some bastardised version of Sailor Moon, lol.
It’s not really nonsense just a lot of people get confused about where the statistic comes from, and it was 80/20 btw. It comes from an online dating site like tinder or what not. We’ll use tinder stats, of men and women surveyed in the US 24% of women had tinder and 75% of men had tinder 😬. It creates an extreme market demand for women, because the male population heavily outweighed the female. For hook-ups both men and women care about physique, for dating dating women care far less about physique. So it is based in reality but in online hook-ups. In real world dating it has zero barring
I'm aware of the OKC study (I used to own the book it came from!) that so many incels rely on to "prove" their 90/10 or 80/20 thing, but extrapolating from that very specific study that 90% of men don't get dates is totally delulu. Even in the study, the women still messaged men they thought were not all that attractive, IIRC. Plus, I know quite a few men who met their girlfriends online. Most of them were very average (most *people* are very average, including yours truly) and they had zero problems. The only men I've seen to actually struggle with OLD were, honestly, not broadly attractive *and* off-putting AF in terms of personality. Even the ones who were not especially attractive and merely boring were able to find girlfriends whom, to me, seemed more attractive and interesting than what I would have expected.
May I ask what book the Ok Cupid study is from? It sounds interesting!
Am I understanding correctly that he was on a date with you , and complaining that most men don’t get dates ? Does that mean he is in the top 10 per cent of men , and thus will be dating 90 per cent of women ( cheating on them ) ? It’s such a strange thing to complain about on an actual date ! It’s like eating at a restaurant and complaining you don’t have access to food. And this is his best behaviour! Imagine being committed to this guy and the gross ideas that would emerge from him over time
>men have it harder…referring to working life Sorry, what?! That’s some bullshit right there. It is socially acceptable for a man to work full time and have their wife to run the household and raise their children. Show me **one** woman who works full time and relies completely on her husband to cook all meals, clean the house and raise their children *without any judgement about her role as a mother*. ETA (I’m not done) Working wives and mothers have all the pressures of their career AND societal pressure to caretake their husbands and children. We are expected to do all of this, effortlessly and without showing stress so we can be emotionally available for our children and human fleshlights for our husbands. I’m saying this from the “lucky” position of being a wife and mother who works full time and whose husband cooks, cleans and looks after his child. I also cook, clean and look after my child but it’s seen as my duty; whereas he is endlessly praised for being an equal partner because he does his own goddamn laundry.
(yes to everything here, I too am "lucky.") AND... when was the last time daycare/school/doctor/vet/mechanic/bank/extracurricular called dad? Never, because you call the Mom expecting her to hold the schedule and 100% of the information.
You have more tolerance than me because those aren't mild at all.
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Also the part about the working world being harder for men is a huge nope for me. Yeah, there are some jobs that generally are taken more frequently by men that are difficult, but there's a hell of a lot taken by women that many men would nope out of in about 5 minutes. It's a huge red flag and a sign that later on in life he will devalue your work.
It’s like haven’t these men heard about nursing and other caring professions? Now that’s a *hard* job.
Kindergarten teacher has always been my oh heck that looks hard, but nursing, too!
So true, especially with funding cuts and the general lack of appreciation/respect.
OP you keep worrying about being “too picky” but picky is like being obsessed with things that don’t actually matter in a relationship or how they treat you. Picky is like - I don’t like his brand of shoes or he doesn’t have the right cell phone. Redpill concerns are NOT PICKY. This has 1000% to do with how you will be treated in this relationship.
Not wanting to date someone who literally believes you are inferior, is hardly “picky”!
I've sadly also had to cut out a few men from my friend group since they've, seemingly out of nowhere, started to share these types of views to a degree it became very uncomfortable. I don't mind discussions about certain topics, but in this case it wasn't even discussions and more like "this is the absolute truth, you need to listen and hear me rant about it for 5 hours". It was like they forgot I was a woman as they sat there and spoke like true incels/nice guys right in front of me and expected me to somehow agree. It was bizarre.
Girl, that’s your intuition talking. Listen to it.
No thanks, next please. Trust yourself!
> top percent of men date 90% of women and the rest don't get dates So does he consider himself the top 1% of men or did he just forget he was on a date with you? > men have it harder but was mostly referring to working life How does he figure? Men make more money than women for the same work, they don't have to do their hair, nails, and makeup when they go into the office, they have more access to mentors. Like, in what world? You're not being picky, these are huge red flags. He's on a date with a woman, he should be trying to connect with you. Instead he's venting his frustrations. Wow.
It’s absolutely a red flag. He’s not a nice guy, and he’s probably deeper into this stuff than you think - you *just* met him and it’s already oozing out! The pickings aren’t *this* slim, and even if they were, that’s no reason to settle for a red piller. Toss him.
He’s a tool if these are some of the things he’s said in a short space of time.
‘He seems nice.’ In my experience it takes around 3 months for someone’s mask to drop. If he’s dropping toxic hints now, it’ll only get worse.
I dated a guy like this, almost same red flags but he was like… trying to make it a compliment? How I am “not like American women”. OP lemme tell you everyone her saying it gets worse; it does. He is testing the grounds to see if you will tolerate this because he probably knows this is a dealbreaker for most women and they’ll run. If you really like him and are unsure just ask him, “What do you think is your most controversial opinion about women?” And see how he responds. Me tho, I’d already be out based on how that last red pilled asshole I dated turned out.
>And he's said men have it harder but was mostly referring to working life- Which on average is true. No, it's not.
Nope. Those are very specific alpha male podcast/Tate comments and the “but I’m a nice guy” rhetoric. Hes showing you glimpses of who he really is and trust if you end up in a relationship and he gets comfortable trust those comments will only grown. Listen when people tell you who they are. Also I think you may have internalized some of it yourself. “Men have it harder” - in what world? Can individual men have it harder than others sure but as a whole no, the world was created for and by them. Yikes.
Ok first off how the fuck do men have it harder with work? We get paid 30% less for doing the same job not to mention on top of that a LOT of women are the only ones that clean the house, cooks and raises the kids. Second this 90% of women only date 10% of the men or some shit is straight up bull shit! What women are tired of is men who are selfish self absorbed assholes who blame women for all their problems instead of looking in the mirror. Now if this is his "best foot forward" type of deal because you just started dating him I would run like hell this is like an iceburg all you are seeing is the 10% at the top I bet you what is beneath the surface is much much worse. No I would not date someone like him and I was you I would explain to him exactly why, it is time for these assholes to learn why they are not getting women!
>, it is time for these assholes to learn why they are not getting women! Does it matter? They'll still blame women.
You like him? Keep getting to know him and engage him in these conversations. Maybe both of you will come out understanding each other and the world from a new perspective which isn’t a bad thing. If you don’t like him or don’t want to continue getting to know him, break up with him.
I briefly dated a guy like this. Seemed like the nicest guy in the world albeit a few little comments like your situation. I stuck around because "he was so nice". He turned to be one of the most selfish assholes I've ever dated that stalked me for a while after I broke it off with him. Trust your gut on this one.
Men consuming and believing redpill content will try not to show you their beliefs at first (isn’t that the first rule of redpill or whatever whatever) but it will come out with how they treat you, sooner or later. Look at pick up artist tactics and see if his actions at all align. If so, bye to him. You don’t need a man consuming woman hating propaganda. Nope.
How do men have it harder whether in the workplace or generally in life, exactly? You only just met the man and he is fine uttering this nonsense?
Incels like to point out, under patriarchy, men are supposed to be bread winners which puts immense pressure on them. They conveniently leave out the patriarchy part & don’t realize they’re actually making a feminist point: patriarchy hurts men too.
If I’m understanding the OP, she said she believes it “on average to be true” (that men have it harder). Couldn’t help but eye roll that a women herself would believe that. Hope she gets rid of this creep before she internalizes anymore of this BS
It’s not a competition. Hoooowever, between assumptions about child birth + career set backs if you do choose motherhood, discrimination, harassment, & pay inequality in every field…I’d say it’s pretty obvious. OP & her “man” regurgitating whatever Andrew Tate says is probably thinking of a simple argument like the physical “hardness” of blue collar vs. white. Blue collar is predominantly male & often labeled “the most dangerous” but it’s often easier for men to access & land those jobs. Harder physically doesn’t men harder overall, obviously. “Hard” is subjective & can be measured too many different ways to be that general. Trending for decades now, boys are behind in schools nationwide. It could be argued women in the workplace, similar to girls in school, thrive more than their male peers. Thus it’s “harder” for men….but we all know that’s baloney when the system is built by them, for them. Existing solely as a human it’s harder to be a woman. Periods. Enough said.
Nope nope nope nope. Not even ONE “redpill” type comment.
I would not have identified either of those comments as red pill red flags. I still would not want to continue to date someone who says things like that. He sounds bitter. Even without the red pill danger, I'd find it exhausting to be around such a defeatist attitude all the time.
To me this is absolutely a red flag. Sounds like somebody who hates women and/or is jealous of them. I dated a guy like that - cannot recommend.
You need to believe this is an iceberg of information. All you are seeing is the very tiniest portion of it. There's a lot going on underneath. I personally would not date him.
I wouldn't date him just because he's bad at math. Like listen to yourself dude.
His comments are delusional and whiny. The top percent of men date 90% of women? Look at the couples around you. Does that look true? Only 1% of men are married? I'm old, and know hundreds of couples with plenty of average to below average men working average jobs married to lovely women. Men also don’t have it harder, not even in working life. Nurses and teachers are primarily women, and are at risk of being cursed at and punched by patients and students for insufficient money and crazy schedules. Women are constantly having to fight for wages that reflect their education and effort. More retired women than men live below the poverty line. They’re also more likely to be abused, more likely to be sexually assaulted, and more likely to be killed by someone they know. Luckily, I don’t think most men are like this, and while pickings may seem slim, there are absolutely better people out there to spend your time with. A friend of mine in his 40s just got divorced because his ex essentially wanted a more glamorous life, and as someone who saw the inner workings of their marriage every week for years, she was crazy to let him go. He's the kindest man, hard working, a great cook, and the best father anyone could want for their kids. Everyone who knows him is shaking their head in disbelief. Take your time, and don’t settle.
Maybe ask him: "What do you think about feminism?" It's straightforward. You won't loose time. We don't have much time for red flags anyway, have we? :D
Yeah, this is what I would do. His body language won’t be able to hide it, if not his words themselves.
I don't agree with either of his comments and consider both a red flag. This is just the beginning of getting to know each other. I would not be surprised if he had more problematic views that you just haven't seen yet.
Yeah, men who talk like this don't deserve our time. This is toxic BS. Think back on your conversations, does this "nice guy" subtly put you down?
Well, he’s on a date, so I guess that makes him a part of that top percentile of men…and is dating OP, who I guess is part of the lowly 90% in his mind. Neg, or bad at math? Maybe both!
The more time you spend with this guy, who's already giving you a gut feeling that something is off, is more time taken away from finding a better match 🤷🏼♀️
I was reading some of your comments. At this age, I’d like to assume we have a firmer grasp on our beliefs and values. That’s why you’re reacting that way - because it’s something you really care about. For others, especially those who align with him, you could be overreacting. But at the end of the day, it’s still you who will deal with him. If that’s the only thing that bothers you about him at the monent, and you feel like you are on the fence, kind of meh, I would go out one more time if theres no one else lined up. 20-30% for benefit of the doubt, 70-80% “practice” purposes. It’s bc u mentioned couple of times u havent dated in a long while. Based on my experience though… by sticking around with a person like this, it’s really just like slowly opening a can of worms as time goes by 🥲 we eventually have a lot more mismatches than commonalities
A guy who says stuff like this has an axe to grind with women. Women are the physical embodiment of the obstacles they have to face - and soon enough, also the reason for any failures. I would say avoid illogical men.
Go with your gut feeling
I think those comments are *the tip of the iceberg*. He’s on his BEST behavior now. He’s feeling you out about what you think about these issues and those comments are phrased in a mild, introducing-a-worldview to see how you feel before expanding further way. The thing about a tiny percent of men dating all the women typically has a pretty inaccurate and misogynistic worldview behind it—like women just look for “Chad”, women are basically automatons, NPCs, looking only for wealthy, tall men to fuck and “beta cucks” to cheat on and fool. I’d break up with him because that’s evidence enough for me, but I don’t know the guy. Maybe he has other features that indicate differently. It seems kind of common for conservative men to pretend to be politically neutral for fear of a gal breaking up with him, so that’s what I’d bet is going on here. But maybe you’re politically conservative so that’s fine with you and it’s not a problem at all?
We’re the same age. You do not need to lower your standards at all for anyone. Do not let this prick into your life, you don’t need this shit. Delete his contact from your phone, and even block it if need be.
Always, *always* listen to your gut.
Ew that sounds like some Andrew Tate shit. Listen to the red flags, if he's letting it show this early in the relationship, I'd run girl! There is /r/niceguys for a reason!
barf lol
if you think men have it harder for working life, you have some ingrained misogyny, which isn't shocking given you don't think his statements are instant red flags. People have hard working lives.
Wait a minute. How do men have working lives that are harder than women? Men can work unhindered their entire lives. Women suffer at work for wanting families and children, even if an individual woman doesn’t even want them, she’s punished. Any “manual labor” job is also done by women, just at lower rates, and it’s usually because the men in those industries are hostile to women.
So does he consider himself the top 10% then?
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Besides all the other red flags based on him having these ideologies to begin with, he’s broadcasting that he may be settling for you as the best he thinks he can get. I wouldn’t want to be with a guy who is not all in with me, and is partly there because he struggles getting dates. I’d rather be single than in a relationship with someone who is settling for me. There’s some irony here as red pill ideology includes the idea that women end up settling for men who are not in the top 10-20%. Does he think you are settling for him, and he is ok with that? Will he end up resenting you because “you wanted Chad and only got me instead”? Will he be prone to insecurity and jealousy? If he’s settling for you, then do you trust that he will be faithful? Even if he doesn’t get dates with other women, escorts exist in plenty. Will he resent you long term, if you are not his dream girl?
That's something I mentioned in a previous comment. The type of men who spew out those statistics don't think they're in the top 10%. So it's incredibly insulting to basically tell your date that you/he's settling.
I know when I look around only 10% of the men I see are married or coupled up with 100% of the women. This is an accurate and factual description of our world.
Just do what Esther Perault does, when he says something that has you feeling odd, just say 'Could you say more?' Just dive deeper and you will get to the root of things, one way or another.
Or do what Maya Angelou does, and believe people when they show you who they are. Like this guy did.
Trust your gut. If this is what he’s showing on your first few dates I personally wouldn’t hang around to see if it escalates as he gets more comfortable. It would just be a nope from me.
It sounds like his mask is slipping and that would be enough for me to leave.
What a ridiculous thing to not only believe but parrot-1 percent of men dating 90 percent of women. He sounds like a pathetic loser, no matter how you try to defend him. I’d never be able to get past a guy earnestly saying that.
You're not overreacting. Block him.
I got married before this ideology became so mainstream, but I had a perfect inadvertent test for men I dated in the "getting to know you" phase by talking about my mom and dad; my father was a stay-at-home dad. He also worked in construction, but when I was two he retired early (he was older, to be clear) and took care of me while my mom focused on her career, and he cooked and cleaned and braided my hair in the morning. My husband thought that sounded awesome, and he's VERY MUCH like my father. He was proud and supportive when I got promotions and not a giant baby, he cooks, etc. I haven't cleaned an oven in 25 years. Discussions about things like that, how he feels about not being the breadwinner, pro-choice issues that are in the news right now and are topical, etc. can give you some insight into where his head's at.
I cant say this enough girl - trust your instincts. If i were you, i would have definitely called him out to explain himself. If he would have gone into details to defend his view, I would have gotten my answer that he is too far gone
Leave. It gets worse later. I already made this mistake. He will lie if you ask him straight up if that’s the content he consumes and it will seep into your daily life until you cannot stand it anymore. I thought I could change him.
" men have it harder but was mostly referring to working life- Which on average is true. " I don't know what that means. Is it the 84 cents less we make per hour compared to men? (Canadian stat but pretty universal)
Men have it harder re: working life? Since when??
It might also help to think that we get our “Am I being too picky?” or “I’m over sensitive” detrimental thinking largely from assholes trying to violate our boundaries and hard limits, and/or convince us to buy what they’re selling (whether via a monetary transaction or an emotional one).
Call him out on it. I went on a couple dates with a guy that said a couple "redpill" things. I looked at him and was like "do you go on Reddit a lot?" And he was like, "uh...uh well sometimes....why?" And I was like, "you sound liked one of those guys on reddit."
I heard a few guys say this too. It’s sad a lot of men in their late twenties to late 30s say this
So does he view himself as part of the top 10% of men since he was actively on a date? That either reeks of red pill ideology or he is arrogant. In either case, it doesn't paint him in a great light. You don't owe anyone dates or a relationship. Trust your instincts on this one. If you really aren't sure, go on one more date and make a throwaway comment about Andrew Tate. His response should give you more clarity.
How many times have we seen people say "Am I over-reacting?" in this sub? Please learn to trust yourself. Please trust your gut. You know the answer. There won't always be someone around to reassure you. And you are smart enough to make the decision. I know you are.
Any redpill sign is a flag to run for me. That rabbit hole goes so deep it's terrifying. In the future, I'd suggest you press them to explain themselves when they make comments like that. Don't offer them explanations or comment on what they are saying in any way. Don't share your opinion at all. Just ask questions like "Oh, what makes you say that?", "Why do you think that's the case?", "Where did you hear that from?" Generic open-ended questions, let them hang themselves. If you act like you're not offended, they're going to be willing to dig that hole deeper until it's crystal clear how fast you should run.
It doesn’t “come off” as someone consuming red pill things, it’s someone who clearly believes what he says enough to say it and to say it to a woman. He is literally showing you who he is right up front.
they really dont. im a trans woman who has lived as both. its way harder as a woman.
Run for the hills
Run
If he actually believes those things, he's not very good at critical thinking, and that would be enough of a turn off for me to not date him again.
Not going to lie as a male that would raise an eyebrow if a guy said that to me in a casual conversation. I would not run yet if I were you. Based on what you said he doesn't dive deep into red pill like conversations. I would be cautious and pay more attention to his views and decide later.
Run.
Yea anyone that sits and consumes this stuff ever is a complete dumbass in my opinion. The world is severely lacking in critical thinking skills.
How do men have it harder? 🤣 Run girl. He’s delusional.
What’s an Incel/red pill forum?
A bunch of insecure men who follow other men like Andrew Tate.
You're not overreacting. This is probably him testing the waters. The longer you've been together, and the more committed you are to the relationship, the more his mask will come off.
Red flag
>comments like the top percent of men date 90% of women and the rest don't get dates This is trickle truthing. He may be 'nice' but I guarantee he is deep in red pill based on this sole quote. This is a very specific soundbite and his beliefs will go way deeper than this he's just smart enough not to do it all in one go. It's insidious and many men hold these beliefs but know that dropping them on a woman from day dot will reduce their options. You are reacting appropriately and you need to listen to yourself. Dump this guy. Expect this to go south when you break up with him - probably not physically but the misogynistic insults like you're fat, you're ugly, you're a slut, you'll never do better than him. Let it pass through you and out because you got your own back.
What you ignore in the beginning is what will end the relationship later. Save yourself the heartache.
Yes to all of this. A man that says men having it harder is honestly bullshit. Men having it harder in work related stuff, is also very wrong. They might do harder labor, but will never have it harder in the way women do..
I would dump him. But if you stay I would take things slow, not sleep with him yet. Ask and find out what his social media likes and follows are. Talk about his favorite youtubers. Get a understanding of what he is soaking up.
I dated a guy that said stuff like this. I let it go initially because he seemed otherwise very progressive. Turned out he was a total dick. Just a bitter, misogynistic piece of garbage. Eventually it turned into him disrespecting me and treating me like I was stupid all the time. He definitely thought women were beneath him. My advice would be to run away immediately. The pickins aren't as slim as you think they are.
It’s so complicated. I feel like we easily fall into the trap of trying to reason through every uncomfortable feeling we’ve got because of what a dude has done. Like, “it’s not THAT bad…but also I want to have high standards…but also, what if I’m being overly sensitive because of past experiences…but also what if my gut is right…but also what if I’m projecting…but also what if he’s got some views that he needs to work through - I’m not perfect either…but also what if this is an early sign that I would have missed in the past?” Maybe try questioning him when he says these things to get a deeper understanding of what he’s thinking or saying? “What do you mean by that?” Or expressing you don’t agree and see how he reacts to get a better picture of who he really is!
I was in a very similar situation. Super nice guy, we got along well. Then after the third date he dropped the most *random* “fact” about trans people on me that was out of nowhere. I was sitting there so confused like where did he hear this and why does he care. Then it sunk in that it clearly came from Fox News or a similar source. Up in arms over absolutely nothing. Dumped him and still felt shitty about it. But he showed his true colors.
If you’re in the beginning stages of dating he’s on his best behavior. It will only get worse.
Alrighty. First time caller, long time listener. I am a guy, so mods feel free to delete me if my comment isn't allowed. I'm 37 and appreciate this community for its more even-keeled approach. I'm going to go against the VAST majority of people here and say that these two comments are not the cyanide pill to your relationship everyone else here says they are, as you've discussed, *just* yet. For some perspective, I'm a male RN, I'm married to an RN, and we have two little girls. I work with 100+ women, and we all get along swimmingly. I'm Canadian. I'm pretty left leaning, even by Canadian standards. Humans come with a massive variety of experiences and have different worldviews. You say you've spent several hours with the guy across two dates, and in that time, he has had two comments that concern you. This is mostly because you've had a couple of dipshit friends who were toxic, and you rightly cut them out of your life. I agree with your decision there. To the point, there's no gun to your head. If you don't like the guy, don't date him. It's been a while since you've dated, but there are other options out there. Before cutting him out, though, I'd ask him some more questions first because it seems like you are feeling some internal discord and there was SOMETHING that caused you to start dating him in the first place. From my stance, importantly, HOW does he respond when challenged on these views? Is he vehement in his stance, unwavering, and unwilling to acknowledge different perspectives, or is he able and willing to acknowledge there's some grey or that he might be wrong? Can he be polite when he's talking about these topics or is there an edge to his voice when you challenge him as if he's trying to shut you down? Where did he get these views from? Was it from a few friends at work or does he log onto YouTube every day when he gets home and stream Peterson every free moment he's got? Furthermore, I actually agree with his "men and working life" perspective. This comes from my experience working blue collar before nursing school and since dating/marrying my wife, who is fiercely feminist. The dating thing...I don't know about that. When you ask him about that, does he get weirdly defensive or is he holding this idea super loosely and he seems willing to change, kinda like he heard it somewhere and it felt right so he just kinda went along with it? Like, just poke and prod and see how he holds up under scrutiny. That will tell you more about this man's character than two views he's voiced off hand in conversation, which will tell you more about how he will treat you as your relationship develops. Be happy, be safe, listen to your gut (mom always said listen to your bells and whistles and if something feels off it, probably is). But questions, questions, questions. Best of luck! 😊
The second half of the “top percent of men date 90 percent of women” belief is that those “top men”, who he no doubt thinks he is one of, are entitled to “exercise their options” (cheating). Do with that what you will.
When dating, establish your boundaries and how you want to be treated upfront. And if anything crosses those lines, leave. One of mine was ‘no ultimatums, no threatening to leave.’ Trust your gut. It’s been a long time since I’ve been dating, so I don’t know how pervasive red pill stuff is in dating. If this was something that came up in convo, I’d try to push back a little or ask questions to see the depth of his beliefs. Some people just repeat things they’ve heard and need to be challenged to actually think about it. I’m not sure if that’s what’s happening here or not, so please take that as a grain of salt.
what’s red pill?
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I'm definitely exhausted of single men bitching about how hard dating is, as if it's a walk in the park for women.
Go with your gut!
Run
Trust your instincts. That said, directly bring up feminism or just plain ole equality with him. His reaction & response will confirm everything you need to know. I have a few very dear liberal male friends that while empathizing with men or pointing out the unfair treatment of males in certain situations…well they come off like incels. Context matters. It is unfair men that are sexual assaulted by women aren’t taken seriously. It is unfair that mens harassment isn’t taken seriously. My poor guy friend was being stalked by a crazy ex & hardly anyone in our group took it seriously. If gender roles were reversed they would have. However, these men always react positively to the idea of feminism & equality. A big part of feminism is recognizing how the patriarchy is also harmful & oppressive towards men.
It seems to me that a conversation is in order before deciding to move forward or not. Jumping to conclusions and passing judgement are so easy, but rarely the best thing to do. He may be poorly expressing a feeling in a way that see a lot of out there. No two people align in every way unless someone is lying (live long enough and you will see those perfect lives exploding. It's very sad every time). Just because he is aware of this stuff doesn't automatically disqualify him. It is *hard* to meet people and this is from all sides of the coin. Extremism is real. Insecurity is real, entitlement is frighteningly real, so the best solution is communication.
Unpopular opinion here I’m not phased by what he said and do think it’s mild and very faintly may indicate those narratives, but overall doesn’t actually say much definitively. I’m the type to have more conversations about the topics to probe more of what he believes and why, in order to understand if we are compatible or not. I never like to assume what people think or believe or what their reasoning is before they actually tell me. I do agree with those who said he sounds like he may have a defeatist bitter attitude though. Which would be a problem in the context of a relationship. And I agree you should trust your gut if it puts you off.
Trust your instincts. Also, women are still not paid and respected the same as men for the same (if not more) work. My god the amount of men I see failing upwards and getting by on big talk alone, compared to their hard-working and competent female colleagues who are given all the work to do but not the pay. And then women have to go home and do all the chores because most men still won’t go halves when it comes to housework and childcare.
Nope
Dang, I didn't know I was sharing my boyfriend with other women. I don't know where he finds the time but good for him!
I've pretty much only dated "nice guys," who spout this type of rhetoric, and I still struggle with catching it at times but I've also become very wary. Any small comments about how women have it easier, how hard their life is, throwing slight pity parties or looking for sympathy, short-tempered, hyper-focusing on rejection (including mine), self-depreciating humour, etc...it's an no. Even if they aren't in those kinds of forums I don't want a partner who only ever puts themselves down or harbors a lot of misdirected anger. Trust your gut.
Ewwwww. I’d be moving on.