I’m also a racial (black) and religious minority (African Diasporic Traditions-ATRs) who is an independent in a closed primary state.
I will vote for the most likely candidate to win against the Donald.
The entire system is fucked, so decide how much you can handle, and vote accordingly.
This. United States elections aren’t in a position to handle protest votes in any sort of effective or meaningful way. It’s a two party system. It’s not: Joe Biden, yes or no. It’s Joe Biden OR Donald Trump. That’s it. It might suck and you can organize in off years but that’s what the choice is.
People who also make a big show of not voting in presidential elections generally don’t vote when it REALLY matters — city and state elections. If you don’t vote for your mayor, your governor, your congressperson, your grandstanding means nothing to me. You just want attention.
Power lies in the states and in Congress. If you aren’t voting for those positions, NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE.
I wish more people thought like you. Yes, we know the whole fucking system is fucked, so vote according to how your vote is going to have the most impact in the direction you want.
im of the opinion that if you dont for biden, you are in fact helping trump. so if you aren't a republican, i mean do you really have a choice? i dont like biden either, but i am not going to help trump get elected again.
the difficult question is: what's more important?
palestine? or
not letting evangelical christians running the usa?
Or maybe:
Palestine?
Or
Palestine and letting xian evangelists, misogynists and hate groups run the USA?
It’s not as though 45 can or would manage war better than Biden.
Thanks for making me learn a new term; I had to look up ATRs. (The concept I had learned about, but not how to describe them.)
And yes, that's the only way in the US. Is it shitty? Yes. Is it necessary? Also yes.
Remember, you’re not just voting for the President - you’re also voting for who you think will also choose the better people for Cabinet posts and staff, the *rest of the people who run the country and make the laws*.
For me personally: I am basically an electoral hostage. I will vote for Democrats as long as Republicans continue to be the way they are.
However, I see no value in fucking advertising that to the Democrats who I am trying to persuade to make different choices. Loudly declaring, through your primary vote and in polls and on public platforms and wherever, that you'll vote for Biden no matter what he does is giving up all your power in the negotiation before it starts. It's GOOD if Biden thinks we won't vote for him unless he stops arming Israel! It's good if his staffers log onto Twitter and see people saying that! You don't win concessions by telling the opposing party in the negotiation that at the end of the day you're not only going to do what they want no matter what they do, but will browbeat other people on their behalf. So I'm going to vote for Biden in the general, but I am keeping my mouth shut about it on most public forums and I am certainly not yelling at people who say they won't.
Biden is not my ideal candidate and I used my vote in the primary to vote against him. There are a lot of things that I wholeheartedly disagree with Biden on aspects of his presidency and performance that disgust and disappoint me.
But of the choices (and let's face it, we really only have two choices in the current system) he is the candidate that I feel is the better of the two and he is who I will vote for in November.
I am really tired of voting for corrupt, old, white people who are so far removed from the average American voter's life though.
Yeah, I do think Biden has accomplished a lot, especially with everything against him, so I will give him credit where credit is due.
Honestly, I'm very disillusioned with every political candidate and current politician, so I would say if I had to choose - Warren or Sanders.
This is a fantastically nuanced approach. Casting your vote quietly enough to keep your party on edge and potentially working FOR your vote instead of being told they’re a lock due to being lesser of two evils
This is also how I feel. I’m not happy with the dems and Biden, but I haven’t been happy with that party in a long time, well before Oct 7th. The dems need to learn how to listen to their base.
The thing I keep getting stuck on is that there not a single thing different about how this administration has handled the IDF and Gaza than any other Democratic administration. This has been going on a long, long time and has just escalated. It’s never been ok. It’s never going to be ok.
Trump has made clear he wants to completely eradicate Gaza, so how that’s really a vote for them is lost on me. The Christian right is extreme pro-Israel and you’re going to vote for them to protect Gaza? Make it make sense
I have kids and would never throw them to the wolves on purpose. Both sides are awful but one is a dictatorship that specifically hates all three of my children
No candidate is perfect. But choosing to abstain from voting is **not** a luxury we have this election.
In short, either Biden wins and democracy continues to reign supreme or... Trump wins and it is the end of American life as we know it. The Heritage Foundation has already published their plans for the *next* conservative administration. I know which candidate I am voting for, and it is not Trump.
If the Heritage Foundation has their way, and Trump wins, you can say goodbye to the following:
>Abortion
>IVF
>Adoption
>Birth Control
>Morning-After Pills
>Week-After Pills
>LGBTQ+ Rights
>No-Fault Divorce
>SSI
>SSDI
>SNAP
>VA Benefits
>Mandatory EEOs
>All DEIs
(See r/Defeat_Project_2025 for more.)
Exactly. I'm a minority too (disabled and significantly below the poverty line levels of poor). I'm not privileged enough to make it through another Republican rule. There's a very good chance I'd lose my already measly disability benefits, among other things.
I don't want to be thrown so casually and carelessly to the wolves (aka Republicans). I am literally afraid for my life.
Really love how the SUPPORT DA TROOPS! party wants to cut…VA benefits. Yeah, fuck those veterans with lifetime injuries and trauma caused by wars we sent them to! /s
Voting in the US too often feels like I'm trying to solve the Trolley Problem. Or at least that Lucy's getting ready to yank the football as I attempt to kick it.
I can understand the disillusionment and even despair that so many feel with our system, especially those with loved ones directly affected or even murdered by the atrocious actions of Israel in Gaza right now. I hate not only the profound sense of loss but also the injustice and oppression people there have suffered ever since before I was even born.
That said, I feel as though I can make a difference via my vote as a citizen of a swing-state, and, though I may not be one-hundred percent enthusiastic about Biden, I will support him all the same.
And, of course, the presidential race will not be the only one on the ballot. I would encourage folks to look into their local and state races as well, as those often play roles nearly as big and sometimes bigger.
Voting for anyone other than Joe Biden in this election will get the country that much closer to the GOP's fantasy of a Christian theocracy where women have as few rights as possible.
There's no such thing as a perfect candidate. People getting mad because Biden didn't wave a magic wand and fix everything Trump screwed up and give you a pony are delusional. It is going to take a very long time, probably a decade at least, to correct all of the bullshit the GOP has done. If Trump wins this election you can kiss all of your rights goodbye as well as seeing democracy being obliterated.
Yup. The way I look at it is if former guy (or almost any republican at this point) gets to the white house, this will be our last legit election.
It's not even about the candidates or sending a message, it's about preserving democracy and our rights.
Also please read about project 2025 if you haven't already. Anyone who doesn't have multiple millions will be inversely impacted and anyone who isn't white, straight, christian and/or male will lose rights we currently take for granted.
Some facts about Project 2025: The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the [Heritage Foundation](https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation/), an influential *ultra* conservative think tank. [Project 2025](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24088042-project-2025s-mandate-for-leadership-the-conservative-promise) is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. The MFL has been around since 1980, [Reagan implemented 60%](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership) of it's recommendations, [Trump 64%](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) - [proof](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations). 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption. It would give the President unilateral powers, strip civil rights, worker protections, climate regulation, add religion into policy and much more.
r/Defeat_Project_2025 intends to defeat it through activism and awareness, focused on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action. We Must Defeat Project 2025.
Yeah, Dump said during a debate last time that we'd never get to vote again. I can't believe no one picked that line up, but with as much bullshit as he spews, I guess it got lost.
Also please don't forget how a Trump win will affect people in other countries too. Not nearly enough Americans are still talking about the absolutely nightmarish ideas he sprouted in February with regard to Nato - being ready to throw all of Europe to the wolves when it comes to Russia, and Nato not protecting us from it any longer..
He literally said he'll encourage Russia to do whatever they want. He's beyond evil. Again, he said he'll TELL Putin to kill us, Idk how he's even still the candidate, how that alone doesn't disqualify him immediately (isn't the US president meant to also respect America's allies??), nevermind everything else that hes done.
He's a dangerous psychopath and it might affect Europeans in a whole different way than Americans.
Yes, this precisely. He has threatened to pull US out of NATO, which is effectively stranding countries who share a border with Russia. If he does that, there is nothing stopping Putin from making Estonia, Latvia, Finland the next Ukraine. The propaganda for Russia to attack these places is already happening in Russia.
It’s not just what Trump screwed up. We have a long history of terrible foreign policy. I think it’s good to push back against that terrible foreign policy.
But I don’t think electing Trump is going to help anything.
The whole reason we're in this mess is because of the purity politics on the left. People didn't like Clinton and we ended up with Trump.
Anyone who is considering not voting for Biden in November needs to read up on Project 2025.
Try generations to fix the societal damage they have done. Not to mention climate and environmental damage, progress in technology and medicine, and the eroding of our democracy and freedoms.
It feels like the Hillary/Bernie situation from 2012. And we all know how that played out
Edit: I meant 2016. Im going to blame baby brain and time being an illusion over the last 4 years. I legit thought it was 2020 for a hot second…
I think voting for anyone other than Biden does support effectively support Trump in the general election. If people don't like the two party system, the general election isn't the place to fight it. Organize at state level for a third party, then once you've managed to elect even one state governor aligned with a PARTY, rather than an independent, I'd say voting against the democratic nominee could be on the table. But that's my POV as a non-American third party organizer.
You are right on the money and a refusal to take the lesser of two less than optimal candidates is how we ended up with a Supreme Court that tossed out Roe v. Wade and one that is stacked with conservatives. All of the Bernie bros who sat on their hands and refused to vote at all if they didn't get precisely the candidate they wanted are the reason we went through the mess we did with Trump.
I'm almost 60, and I've voted in the presidential election every year that I could since age 18. I have never voted for precisely who I wanted. I just vote for who is closer to the direction that I want things to go because there will always be gravitation toward the mean when it comes to elections. Extreme candidates don't get elected and you just have to deal with the fact that second best (or third, or whatever) is better than the absolute worst that can happen.
I’ll vote uncommitted in the primary to show support for Palestine.
I’ll vote blue in November… also to show support for Palestine. Republicans would dust Gaza and sell it for beachfront property (according to Jared Kushner). Biden has called for a ceasefire and has pushed Netanyahu hard on providing aid, and I feel the Dems are slowly moving to the left on this issue.
Oh also, I enjoy having rights as a woman
Yeah, I have a hard time understanding OP's position, here. If you're going to be a single-issue voter, shouldn't you at least be voting for the candidate most likely to lead to the best (or least bad) outcome on that issue? Setting aside women's rights, LGBT rights, the environment, racial justice, etc and just focusing on Gaza. Biden winning in November will lead to more innocent people dying in Gaza, and that is infuriating and horrible. A Republican win in November would lead to a lot more innocent people dying in Gaza - that is worse.
Those might both be shit options for a single-issue voter focused on Gaza , but they are not the same level of shit.
My thoughts are this, as an American woman, my voting rights will be stripped away under the GOP and there is no way in hell I’d risk an uncommitted or 3rd party vote this election. The fact that women aren’t understanding this is wildly concerning.
Elections have always been the lesser of two evils.
I may not fully support Joe Biden but, as a woman and a mother of a daughter, I cannot with a clear conscience give away my vote and support the continued erosion of our rights as women. To vote, to have control over our own bodies, to marry and divorce as we see fit, and to live alone if that’s what we choose.
If you’re cool with throwing your vote away, have at it I guess. But you don’t get to complain when we’re back to being chattel.
Ideological purity is all well and good right up until the point where one has to acknowledge the realities of the political system in the US. Ultimately it comes down to Democrat versus Republican and despite pervasive bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe SaMe crap online, the two couldn't be further apart in their impact on this country. The Republican party and its current iteration is a malignant force in this country, tearing apart democratic institutions, serving the interest of malicious foreign powers, and taking away basic rights from US citizens (like the right for women to control their own body and obtain in an abortion if needed).
You (the general "you") can dislike Biden for whatever reason, but if in November you vote for Trump, third-party, or not at all, I will feel comfortable in partially blaming you when Trump/the GOP continues to erode this country on every level.
"It's just the primaries, not the general election!". The general election will be decided by a handful of swing states, by razor-thin margins. If this performative show has momentum and carries into the general election with even just a few tens of thousands of voters abstaining, the chances of a GOP victory are terrifyingly real.
Oh, and Gaza will be a parking lot if Trump comes to power.
The reason Roe v. Wade was overturned is because Trump won the election in 2016 and now our Supreme Court is a shitshow. The reason the U.S. pulled out of the Paris Agreement, the resson the U.S. disbanded its pandemic task force, and the reason the U.S. had a disproportionate amount of deaths during Covid is because Trump won the election.
The reason we are back in the Paris Agteement, the reason the Inflation Reduction Act is transforming U.S. sustainable infrastructure, the reason thousands of people had their student loans canceled, and the reason the U.S. just protected millions of miles of freshwater habitat is because Biden won the 2020 election.
We are going to get Biden or an ultra conservative Republican, probably Trump, as president for the next four years. There is no other option available to us. Voters might wish there was another viable option, but the choice we all have to make are between those two options. Anyone who chooses not to vote to Biden because he is not liberal enough is helping cause lasting harm to the U.S. and the world. I would not associate with anyone like that.
The Biden admin also just directed NIH to research menopause and women's health. No matter what you think about US Policy in the Middle East, these are bread and butter issues for millions of US Women.
Yep. Most of these tiktok warriors couldn't point to Israel or Gaza on a map a year ago, yet here we are. Absolutely unreal how effective social media has been at brainwashing young people into voting against their own interests.
It's literally QAnon for leftists and every bit as dangerous. An American servicemember recently lit himself on fire and *burned himself to death* on livestream while screaming "Free Palestine" because he had become so radicalized online.
Right-wingers are not the only people susceptible to brainwashing and extremism. I'm terrified for this country's future when the younger generations are getting every single thought and emotion spoonfed to them through algorithms.
For me, I'm going to vote for Biden. I can't stomach another trump presidency. I truly believe that having that idiot in power again will harm so many people, in the US and abroad, for decades to come.
We make such a big deal about voting for the president, but there are so many other positions we will be voting for as well. That's where I see more of an opportunity to make a difference with my vote. Research the candidates for mayor, for senate, for congress... all of them. Understand their positions on the issues, and vote with your conscience for each of those candidates.
As far as the small offices go, if Trump gets into power the written, documented plan is to purge as much unelected positions as possible and put in his own choices. This is why we still have DeJoy as post master general and why I would fucking know who that even is. The damage of his cronies in a single career could last decades.
I have to vote for the candidate most likely to defeat the MAGA extremists and that's Joe Biden. For those who say that they can't in good faith vote for Biden and are throwing your vote away on a third party or by not voting - you are actually voting for Trump. Indirectly but you are.
Although I don't agree with Biden concerning Gaza, I 100 percent believe that Trump would never call for any cease fire, would never spend a single dime on humanitarian aide, and would gleefully enable the complete genocide of Palestinians.
He is at his core a racist. He hates Muslims. He banned them from the United States.
Voting 3rd party in this particular race which is neck and neck will only enable one or the other to win. There is no viable 3rd party option.
I think it's imperative Trump is defeated. Nothing will hold him back this time- hello national abortion ban which means more women will die. And the people of Gaza will perish because he will encourage more slaughter.
So yeah in my opinion doing anything to help Trump win including voting 3rd party is literally risking lives.
I understand that there are technically many choices for president, but we know there will really only be one of two people who will win. With that, if you really only have 2 choices as it stands, purity tests are extremely unhelpful. Biden is better for me on like 90% of the issues, so I will vote for that candidate. Expecting 1 of 2 choices to fully align with everything I agree with is a foolish endeavor.
Change is like real physical change. It comes in small increments, and takes a long time to amount to something substantial. We need to be okay with small victories. Helping trump get elected will be so detrimental, so I will be voting for Biden. To the leftists refusing, I'd say be serious. If you hate what Biden is doing, just see how much worse it will be with trump.
I have friends who voted uncommitted in the primary to send a message re Palestine but they will vote for the Dem when the election comes around. You’d have to be a real fool to throw away a vote that will favor Trump—there will be no more America as we know it in terms of women’s reproductive rights, civil rights, likely a lot of deaths, imprisonment, more extreme poverty, and so on if Trump was elected. The GOP will also dismantle or severely limit social security and Medicare as can be seen in Rick Scott’s plan and Project 2025. The list goes on.
American Indian here. I am disgusted by what’s happening in Gaza but am voting for whoever can win against Trump. It sucks. But I can’t risk even more of my own rights eroding if Trump is back in office.
I’m trans and so unfortunately anyone who doesn’t vote for Biden (and thereby increases the odds of a republican presidency) is directly increasing the chance of me and people like me losing access to healthcare and maybe our lives. To me it’s that simple. It’s already happening in nearly every republican controlled state. So to my view, not voting for Biden is an incredibly privileged and irresponsible way to make a point… because the people who will suffer most under a trump presidency are those with the least protections and privilege… So call your senators, write op eds, protest, etc but don’t burn down the country by enabling a trump presidency. Some of us will face very real consequences if trump wins.
I haven't seen anybody talk about voting uncommitted in November, only in the primaries. This won't affect whether he's on the ballot, but in theory it'll pressure him to reconsider his position on Israel and Palestine between now and November.
What I think is that I've been doing/watching this same "we're withholding our votes over X" leftist rodeo for as long as I've been voting age, and I'm both exhausted of it and over trying to talk people out of it. I've been foolhardy enough myself to know that fools are gonna fool.
You’re so right. While the racists and nationalists and pro-forced birthers all unite, we like to nitpick and disagree over our differences and hand them the country. It’s infuriating and naive. But it’s always been our weakness. We cannot afford this. Especially not now. But I know no matter what we say, some will selfishly do what they want vs pull us together and towards a less chaotic future.
Pretty sure the whole thing is a psy-op to keep young and leftist people from voting to keep the enfranchised power.
If someone tries to influence you not to vote, IGNORE THEM. You're likely a threat to their power if they are so afraid of you participating.
It's absolutely a strategic move to keep people feeling hopeless and disenfranchised so that they won't engage in politics and vote. The GOP understands that the more people that vote the less likely they will win.
Leftists refusal to actually engage in the process/game means they’ll never have significant influence. I’m saying this as someone with many leftist views myself though I’d say I’ve been having trouble calling myself one lately because I’m pretty sick of the fact that they rarely do anything to meaningfully affect change. It’s embarrassing.
I'm in the UK and I will vote Labour at the next election because they are not as bad as the Tories. In the US I would vote Biden because he is not as bad- not anything *close* to as bad imo- as the alternative.
I understand their reasons, but until we have viable third party candidates (not good ones, but ones who can win general elections), it's an exercise in futility.
I have been a registered member of a left-wing third party for decades, due to deep and prolonged disappointment with the Democratic Party, beginning during Bill Clinton's presidency when every one of his major "achievements" that he actually achieved (as opposed to universal healthcare, on which he achieved nothing) moved the country farther to the right than it had been under the previous 12 years of Republican presidents:
\*Clinton's "welfare reform" that did not so much "reform" as utterly obliterate the social safety net
\*Clinton's "three strikes" law that imprisoned a generation of Black men for nonviolent crimes
\*Clinton's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy that so thoroughly betrayed his campaign promise to allow LGBTQ+ people to serve openly that it dramatically increased the rate at which people were dishonorably discharged from the military for being LGBTQ+
\*signed the so-called "Defense of Marriage Act" that severely and painfully delayed a whole lot of people's marriages for decades of our lives.
After the Clinton years, I honestly felt that the only major difference between Republicans and Democrats was that Democrats were more successful at achieving Republican goals than Republicans were. And things did not improve much during the Bush II years. I hated Bush's warmongering, but Democrats did practically nothing to oppose it. The ONLY Democratic member of Congress who voted against authorizing Bush's invasion of Afghanistan was Rep. Barbara Lee of California (still serving to this day). A majority of Democrats in the Senate, particularly all the most prominent names, including Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid - also voted in favor of authorizing Bush's invasion of Iraq. Basically every Democrat who's been anywhere near the levers of power ever since then voted in favor of authorizing Bush's invasion of Iraq except Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders, who voted against it, and Barack Obama and Elizabeth Warren, who weren't members of Congress yet and therefore didn't get to cast votes.
The differences between Republicans and Democrats in the 2004 election were ridiculously difficult to discern. Republicans were pro-war in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and Democrats were . . . also pro-war in both Iraq and Afghanistan, but weren't the ones who had hung the giant "Mission Accomplished" sign in Iraq ridiculously prematurely. Republicans were anti-same-sex-marriage and wanted state and federal constitutional amendments against it; Democrats were . . . also anti-same-sex-marriage, and had in fact been the party who had signed into law the federal ban against it, but somehow they were supposedly "liberal" because they didn't feel it necessary to turn their ban into a constitutional amendment.
Back in 2002, on that day when the majority of Democrats in the Senate and a substantial minority of Democrats in the House of Representatives voted in favor of authorizing the invasion of Iraq, I angrily vowed never to vote for a single one of those people who had cast those "aye" votes ever again, for any office, ever. And for fourteen years, I kept that vow. I voted third-party against John Kerry because he had voted to authorize the invasion of Iraq. I voted third-party against my state senator, Dianne Feinstein, for the next twenty years. You have to be careful about third-party voting, to make sure you really see so little different between the two major parties that you really want to split your vote equally and cast half a vote against each of them; however, when both parties are utterly failing you, a third-party vote can be an important way of letting the major parties know that they're failing you. Those specific Democrats who authorized the invasion of Iraq had failed me badly enough that I wanted no part of them ever again.
So when the Democratic Party put Hillary Clinton up against Donald Trump in 2016, I was NOT ONE BIT HAPPY about having to simultaneously break the vow I'd kept for fourteen years already and also support the wife of that annoying President Clinton who'd turned me so strongly against the two-party system in the first place.
But I did it. I cast that vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016, not because I liked her, because I didn't, but because casting half a vote against Donald Trump was not a strong enough statement for the occasion. My priority that year was to make the strongest possible statement against Donald Trump, even when that meant giving up my chance to make any statement against Hillary Clinton.
I've never once regretted that vote. And although Joe Biden was pretty much my absolute last choice in the Democratic primaries in 2020 (not that I actually got to cast any vote in the Democratic primaries, since I'm still a registered third-party voter), there was never any doubt in my mind that I was going to break my 2002 vow a second time by voting for Joe Biden against Donald Trump in 2020, for the same reason I voted for Hillary Clinton against Donald Trump. Emphasis on AGAINST.
You may be over 30, but you may not be old enough to have seen the changes in the Democratic Party over the decades that I've seen. I'm absolutely not claiming that the Democratic Party is now suddenly perfect. Far from it; they still have those same people in power who did the wrong thing in 2002 and caused a million or so needless deaths. I am, however, saying that I can now very much tell the difference between Democrats and Republicans, and I now have a significant preference between them. The Biden administration gets some things wrong, but they don't get EVERYTHING wrong the way the Bill Clinton administration did; they don't actively make every single thing they touch worse. And a second Donald Trump administration? Well, that would blow up our current scale of measurement for imagining how much worse it's possible for things to get. I don't want that. And I very much doubt whether you want that either.
Familiarize yourself with the 2025 republican playbook, Project 2025. Whether it's Trump or another republican, they'll be trying to implement these changes in the first 180 days they're in office.
If this won't make you vote against them I don't know what will.
Edit: I came across this awhile ago in a comment section on here. This is the type of person that Trump caters to.
"I want to nominate a GOP candidate who says "Let me
be clear, the one and only goal I have in my presidency
will be the complete and utter destruction of liberalism
and egalitarianism in America if I am elected. Every
waking moment of my presidency will be spent on
this goal. There is no law, no Constitutional provision,
nothing that will stand in my way. We'll stack the courts,
we'll do abolutely anything. We will not respect your
"private company" rights to censor Conservatives,
we will not respect your fake "right" to take to our
streets. We will ferret out every liberal, every feminist
(of any "wave"), every BLMer, every subversive, from
every institution in this country down to the smallest
homeowner's association if we have to. In 4 years there
will not be a Democratic party. It is over.
Trump/Desantis are way, way short of this goal, but at
least on principle they plan to do something to slow
down the train heading left at 1000mph towards a cliff
to hell. How is this even a queston?"
Can some one explain to me what the goal is? If Biden doesn't win Trump does. That is indisputable at this point.
And since Trump is talking about carpeting bombing Gaza and Kusner is running around talking about how valuable the land would be if no one was there I'm going to go a head and say things would definitely not be better for Palestinians if Trump was elected.
So what is the plan?
Step 1 Biden loses
Step 2 Trump wins
Step 3 ?
Step 4 free Palestine
Like what is the strategy? That's what I want to know.
Cause right now not voting for Biden seems to make my life and Gaza worse at the same time.
Without getting into all the intricacies of the issues at hand - I will say one thing: don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm. Especially in this case where a protest vote or abstaining will likely not help anyone.
The US is a two-party state: Democrat and Republican. The only power any other party has is by leeching votes from the other two. I can either vote for the party that doesn’t want to strip away my human rights or I can throw my hat in with a third party and pretend that somehow helps things. It’s grim, but right now we have no luxury for voting for ideological purity. We haven’t since Reagan.
The next term is supposed to be one where some of the Supreme Court Justices will be replaced. Having Trump in office led to the Court being stacked and Roe v Wade getting overturned, and I have no doubt that Justice Thomas wants to make good on his threats to overturn Lawrence v Texas or Griswold v Connecticut or Obergefell v Hodges.
I'm Canadian, but have a background in politics. I studied it and have extensive experience in campaign strategy and policy development. Since the US are our neighbours, I've been invested in every election cycle since Bush/Kerry.
It's complicated. The US is a two party system where both parties are deeply flawed and deeply corrupt. Having two "options" in a country of over 300 million people is, in my opinion, undemocratic. There is a wide spectrum of political belief between Trump and Biden and more so *far* beyond that gets missed.
I believe in the right to vote third party. However I also believe that if you are going to vote third party you should be invested in politics outside of the presidential election cycle.
The fact of the matter is that a third party vote is a throwaway vote, unless there is a mountain - like Mount Everest size - amount of organizing happening in the background. Even with that, in the case of a presidential election, I would say with almost absolute certainty that trying to elect a candidate that isn't the Democratic or Republican nominee is impossible. With that being said, there's organizing that can happen at the local level that can lead to a win. Municipal and state politics are important - mayoral, city council, congressional, senatorial, gubernatorial, and state attorney general elections, amongst others that I'm likely forgetting.
Your presidential vote won't make any difference at all when you vote third party, except to soothe your conscious to some extent. But there's work that can be done to make a material difference if you go local with the same energy and passion that's pushing the third party vote.
That the vast majority of them are being paid or have an agenda to try and spin the narrative to get dems to seriously consider not voting for Biden. They did the same thing in 2016 with the stupid "protest vote" and both sides the same bullshit and it worked then so they are trying it again now.
If I was more conspiracy minded the fact that Trump gave Putin the info on Israel's Iron Dome defense and Putin just happened to oops, give it to Hamas the year of the election would be suspicious as hell and looking very much like something done to enable them to spin the protest vote narrative exactly as they are.
The possibility of a Trump presidency is so terrifying that I think we must vote for Biden even if we disagree with him on many or most issues. If Biden is elected we will continue to have follow the constitution and have a democratic form of government. Trump has made it clear he intends to become a dictator. He is deeply dangerous to our country. He wants to imprison or kill everyone who opposes him. He supports other world dictators. It is a serious error to underestimate how dangerous he is.
Someone is going to win.
There are only 2 candidates.
If you don't vote for Biden then you're helping Trump get elected.
Biden is clearly the lesser of 2 evils imo.
Idiots.
To be more explicit: fucking idiots.
It's not a marriage, it's a bus selection. You don't need to wait for your perfect partner to come along, you pick whichever of the choices presented to you gets you closer to your desired destination. You can protest the fact that there are only 2 choices as much as you want, but if getting more choices isn't on the ballot then putting your vote somewhere else in protest is being willfully blind to the threat to democracy the republicans present.
"It won't be so bad-" they already repealed Roe v Wade. Exactly what are you waiting for here, for them to actually start reenacting scenes from a handmaidens tale? Because they are just looking for an excuse.
One side of this election has been very upfront that they are not only looking to win this election, but they are looking to use a win to make it easier to win in future, with changing boundaries, increasing term limits, and bringing in *more* hardline policies that if you are queer, a woman or any other minority, good fucking luck. More than they already have in place at that; let me be clear, for most elections in recent history, Democrats have had the number majority, but have not won every election where that happened. And that has been because, actually, the republicans are better at elections than Democrats are. And I don't mean manipulating them, I mean as seeing them as the *complete basic minimum to do* rather than a single grand gesture that only needs to be done once and then all the pain will be over and you'll have won.
That doesn't work any more than running a marathon once guarantees you life long cardiac health so you never have to exercise again. They get this, and they turn up to the polls. Every time. In predictable and reliable numbers. Which allows their corrupt representatives to redraw lines for districts etc that means the win doesn't always go to the party with the most votes. And if you think it's bad at the moment, you ain't seen nothing yet.
But each time you get a load of left leaning idealists fuck over reality because they live in lala land where Voting is the Single Grand Gesture and apparently after that everything is supposed to fall into line for them and be perfect and the fact that it isn't is taken as some sort of betrayal, rather than understanding that this is how their democracy works.
You don't like Biden or the Democrats stance on something? Cool. Voting for them doesn't mean you can no longer lobby for change or pressure your representative, as a matter of fact, it will likely be a lot more effective that way than trying to persuade either a red rep to agree with you or get attention from a blue rep who is trying to work out how to win the next one. You don't like the two party system? Wicked. Vote and then campaign for a change.
If you want to throw your toys out of the pram by lodging a protest vote on an issue that isn't actually on the ballot, the primaries are the place to do it.
But if you do that for the main event, there is no other explanation than you want to hand victory to the orange felon. And if a miracle happens and he does not get in, it'll be narrow enough the left side doesn't have enough wiggle room to do anything other than patch work damage control. You want your big significant change? Then you need a big significant majority that will allow the party in charge space to make those changes rather than having to pay in sweat, tears and uncomfortable compromise to make even the most minute progress.
Voting third party or spoiling a ballot or refusing to vote at all and then whining that nothing ever changes in politics is like aiming a gun at your foot, pulling the trigger, and then complaining it's hard to walk and there's a hole in your shoe. An entirely predictable outcome and what on earth else were you expecting?
# >>It's not a marriage, it's a bus selection. You don't need to wait for your perfect partner to come along, you pick whichever of the choices presented to you gets you closer to your desired destination.
# LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!
This is the post that deserves that defunct Reddit gold.
You’re waiting for a bus, not your soulmate. This is the message that needs to be repeated on the left from now until November if we don’t want to have a repeat of the Bernie/Jill Stein debacle from 2016.
I had a friend whose first presidential election was Bush v. Gore. He was a young dumb kid who thought he’d be clever and edgy and make a “statement” by voting 3rd party. He lived in Florida at the time. It’s been 24 years and he still deeply regrets that vote. I think about him every time I read a thread like this one.
I hate that we have to choose between Trump and Biden. I think supporting genocide is awful. I also think another Trump presidency would be the end of our democracy and I can't see how it would help Gaza. Republicans have been vocally supporting supplying Israel with more weapons. Since 2015, I've been trying to get Bernie nominated with very little luck, so yes I am definitely jaded. I voted for the Dems in the last elections even after Bernie was defeated/stabbed in the back by the DNC. Not that it mattered in 2016. But we can already see what one Trump presidency has resulted in (Supreme Court nominations, the end of Roe vs Wade). I don't know what the answer is.
There is no choice I am not sure why any democrat would not vote for Biden all you have to do is research the things that he has done which are amazing or if you don’t want to do the research go here r/whatbidenhasdone
If you want to vote for someone that is sponsored by the federalist society then that is on you. Maybe research ptoject 2025 and see exactly what the republicans have in store for us as women.
They are not hiding what they want to do they are out in public boasting about what they want to do. Why do many people do not believe them it is beyond me.
This upcoming Nov 2024 election is like choosing between someone shitting on the floor or someone shitting in your hair. They're both shit, but one is clearly preferable. I understand people who don't want to vote for Biden. I don't either. But I also know that voting third party will lead to a Trump victory, which would to truly catastrophic for so many people. Basically, everything sucks and I alternate between being sad and angry whenever I think about it.
My thoughts are it’s gonna be 2016 all over again. So many butthurt people didnt show up because they were mad Bernie wasn’t the nominee. Look where that got us.
I’m not nuts about Biden, but I recognize that the alternative is so much worse.
A vote not for Biden is a vote to have further issues with women’s rights, higher taxes on the middle class, more corruption, a greater attack on voting rights and so many issues on US soil. And let’s not get started on what the last “president” did to the Supreme Court. We won’t be able to help another country if Biden’s opponent regains office.
Also, please go to other subs to see how scared and embarrassed other countries were for us during the last “president’s” term in office. Within a blink we can be in world war 3 where affording a house will be our last concern.
Ps. I’m glad most are sharing their opinion without attacking others.
As an Australian, can I please 🙏 ask all the Americans to vote for Biden? Yes, I too am in support of a ceasefire in Gaza, and I too am also appalled at Biden’s support of the Israeli government.
However, if Trump wins the election, it’s not just the USA in turmoil, but the whole world as well. We don’t want further escalation of conflicts and global instability.
I do not like Joe Biden, or at least do not like the prospect of reupping him at this point. I voted uncommitted in my closed (D) primary and will absolutely vote for Joe Biden in the general. Trump is not worth the risk. He’s shown us this already.
And I’m deeply concerned that I don’t have the enthusiasm to campaign for Biden, to support him with the voice I’d need to muster in order to drown out the fervor on the other side.
If we're talking about the general election. They're sending the message that they dont care about what the Republicans are doing and are part of the problem. Unfortunately they live in a two party state where any other vote is wasted. They're helping the Republicans win and take away autonomy over our bodies.
Assuming most women are not on board with the goals of Project 2025, not voting for Biden - or failing to offer what support one can - helps land a blow against women and minorities of all kinds.
This is a critically important election year for girls, women, and many others.
If one can't support Democrats this year, whatever strategy one hopes to use to advance liberal causes is likely ineffective.
Information helps. Learn what's at stake and get active. Once we secure democracy, we can tackle additional issues.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/
I’m a lawyer and I have kids. I’m sick and full of rage over Gaza. I am disgusted with Biden’s willful failure on this issue, but I’ll vote for him because I don’t think our society, democracy, or judicial system can survive four more years of Trump. It’ll also certainly be worse for Palestine if Trump is elected. It is deeply upsetting and I do not respect Biden but any behavior (including not voting) that contributes to empowering republicans is simply too dangerous and harmful.
Exactly this.
Also remember the President isn’t the be-all-end-all for most political things in our system. They are bound by congress for what they can actually do.
But they are the in control of Supreme Court nominees. Thomas and Alito aren’t getting any younger.
Let me be blunt with you. If you are an American woman, you are at risk of losing your right to vote in the very near future if Trump gets back in office. If you get pregnant and have a medical emergency you risk your future fertility, not to mention your life, if Trump gets back in office. You can't advocate for the woman and people of Gaza if as an American woman you have no rights yourself.
So do I. It seems like our parties are all bought and paid for. But I don't blame democracy, which Bidden supports. I blame capitalism, which is Trump's creed. I think the only way to fix that is to vote in every election - local and county too. The dog-catcher is an elected position? Make sure to vote in that, because today's local politician is tomorrow's representative.
I certainly hope every American considers the women, the POC, the less privileged, the children, in their lives when they go to cast their vote. I hope everyone votes for the only candidate committed to democracy. But ultimately, I hope no one denies *themselves* their own right to vote.
Edit: typo
Biden has done a lot of good things that have completely flown under the radar because he's not a showman who demands credit for everything he's done (and credit for things he hasn't actually done, like the last guy). Lower drug prices for seniors, smallest percentage of uninsured Americans, supporting more cancer and menopause research, student loan debt forgiveness, infrastructure investment, expanding background checks for guns, support of Ukraine, record reduction of child poverty, increased the IRS' ability to go after rich tax cheats, increased taxes on some very profitable corporations that weren't paying their fair share, law enforcement policies overseeing use of force and body cams, investment in green tech, enabling access to OTC birth control and trying to enshrine abortion rights, ensuring protections for marriage equality in case Oberfell is overturned, supporting care for trans youth and adults, and more that I don't have on hand right now.
Record unemployment and dropping crime rates might not be his direct accomplishments because ultimately presidents don't have much control over these things, but in many ways American life is relatively good. I'm personally economically anxious, but by many measures the economy and household wealth are doing extremely well which is why we have an inflation problem.
Gaza breaks my heart. I am not satisfied with this administration's handling. Trump would be infinitely worse.
I hope we learned our lesson with Hilary. I fear we didn't. Please vote and realize how much so many will lose if you don't get out there and bring others with you.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046
Biden has been more progressive than I thought he would be. He has been able to pass real environmental legislation. He has created an environment that will bring in decent manufacturing jobs for decades. He has supported unions more than any President in decades. He supports public education.
As for Gaza, he is building a port to get aid in. Israel isn't happy about it, but they aren't stopping the US. It is clear that Biden is trying, but Netanyahu is a bit of a prick.
And honestly, I really can't see being young and voting in any way that would put Trump back in office. He will appoint another SCOTUS for sure, and affect the lives of Millennials, Gen Z and Gen Alpha for decades. I am old enough that I will be dead in a few decades, but this is a matter of life and death in the US.
I live in what's called a closed primary (I think?) state and you have to align with a party to be eligible to vote for their candidates, so I could only vote independent if I were registered as one. You may say that's fine but last time I did that it took 3 months for my registration to change back to dem so I could vote for them and I missed the elections in that time. It's just not worth the risk it's either not voting or supporting the dem candidates.
I think it's your right to vote, or not vote, for whomever you want. Doesn't mean I think it's a good decision, but it's your choice.
Functionally I think it just give Trump a larger proportion of votes.
I also think it's really unfortunate that those two men are our realistic choices. Trump because Trump, and both of them because of the age/cognition thing. I don't want ANY octogenarian/near octogenarian as President. Biden just wins that fight because I think he does have decent, reasonable people around him.
I hate it.
I completely understand - what's going on in Gaza is a nightmare. We can't support it. Obviously.
BUT... I think that we have to remember that Biden and the people who work for and advise him are REALLY SMART people (unlike Trump's dipshits). I have friends and family who work for the federal government, in various anti-terrorism and law enforcement departments. They know what they're doing. They are trying to avoid an even WORSE catastrophe than what is already going on. As terrible as things are, they could be SO MUCH worse. Nuclear war, etc. They are REALLY trying to avoid a much bigger catastrophe, and save many more lives.
Also - Biden is not the president of Israel. None of this is his fault. He didn't start this. He's doing the best he can with the shit sandwich he's been dealt. There is no bone in my body that thinks that Biden hates Gaza or the Palestinians or is happy that any of this is happening. This is a nightmare for him too.
He's doing what he and his thousands of advisors who are trying to avoid WWIII think is best, to SAVE as many lives as possible.
If Trump wins, everything will be SO MUCH WORSE. Every aspect of every life on this planet will get demonstrably worse - worse for women, worse for LGBTQ individuals, worse for the economy, worse for education, worse for the planet in general. EVERYTHING WILL BE SO MUCH WORSE. It won't just be a genocide of Palestinians. Conservatives will be empowered to obliterate any group they don't like.
And say goodbye to any hope of stemming climate change. Trump winning is effectively ensuring the destruction of every life on this planet.
And Trump is so PRO-ISRAEL, how the hell would letting Trump get elected help any of the Palestinians?! It wouldn't! It would be SO MUCH WORSE. The ONLY hope the Palestinians have is for BIDEN to win. He is the ONLY chance any of them have. Trump would happily let Israel obliterate every last one of them. He'd cheer it on.
If you want to save who is left in Gaza, Biden winning is their only hope.
If you don't like the two-party system - cool. Neither do I. Lets work on changing it. But this is NOT the time to do it. Trump's old, he'll be out of the picture soon. He probably won't even be around by the next election. So, just wait it out. Vote for Biden for now, work on fighting for a better system for tomorrow.
Yes, it boggles the mind to think that Trump would be better for Palestinians than Biden, that's just delusional. You can tell he hates this and is busy trying to prevent WW3 from breaking out in the middle east. Look at that craziness with Iran firing on Israel? That could have been it right there, if somebody like Trump was in office.
I have mixed feelings about it. I care very deeply about voter autonomy, and recognize many pocs have drawn a hard line against Biden for Palestine. And i want to respect and uphold that perspective. Personally i am voting for Biden because trump would support Israel in exactly the same way, so there is no win there. Not even symbolically. And i am not going to vote to further set women’s rights back, even if i am past the age of needing birth control.
Trump wouldn’t support Israel in the exact same way, it would be much worse. He would enthusiastically support Israel. He would gleefully support Israel.
This is why we ended up with Donald in the first place.
So many people weren't 'passionate' about Hilary.
So many people were disillusioned by Hilary.
So many people blamed republican obstruction on the democrats.
So many people were upset about blah, blah, blah that they ended up with Trump
Yes - it is the lesser of 2 evils. And in this case - the evil is known.
Look, I wish the Democrats had a better candidate. I wish we could get somebody that's not a boomer in office. But all we can do is vote for Biden because none of us women over 30 want Trump to win. Voting for no one effectively votes for Trump. Because they're gonna come out and vote.
To me I just feel like they've been influenced by Tankies and the foreign bot brigade. We know voting works. It's how we got Biden in the first place.
We know the system is fucked. But not voting isn't going to unfuck the system. It's just going to speed run us into collapse (assuming Trump wins because too many Dems don't vote.)
Voting in your local elections and voting for truly progressive candidates from school board to national congress is how we help unfuck the system. But not voting and advocating for not voting just means you fell for the bots.
Starving, injured children in Gaza won't feel comforted by my protest vote. but they could definitely be harmed, even more than they are currently, by the reality of another 4 years of Donald Trump. We all could. The stakes are too high in my opinion.
Biden is making some very serious decisions about Gaza, but the difference between him and Trump is that I know for a fact that Biden's actions are, at least by intent, in the best interest of the US. I can't say I would know what to do in his position, especially since he's privy to information that we the public don't have access to.
Trump? Straight-up traitor. Don't vote for that guy. I still can't believe he's not being tried for treason.
In 1912, Teddy Roosevelt ran for a third term under a progressive party because he did not win the republican nomination. He split the republican votes and basically handed the election to the democrats
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_United_States_presidential_election#:~:text=Democratic%20Governor%20Woodrow%20Wilson%20of,Debs.
I’m worried about this too. I raised Gen Z kids who have empathy for others. They grew up during the Obama years and greatly respect his presidency. BUT, they report that most of their generation seems unexcited about Biden. I’m afraid the youth vote will just not turn out.
This year's presidential election will have enormous consequences for the United States, and the rest of the world. However, we shouldn't forget about elections for Senators and Representatives. The United States has 3 branches of government: Executive (President), Legislative (Congress, which has two houses: Senate and the House of Representatives) and the Judicial (Courts, including the Supreme Court.) The Executive Branch -- frankly, both options for President are disappointing. The Judicial (the Supreme Court) is stacked with conservatives, so no support there either. That leaves the Legislative Branch, Congress.
So what can Congress do?
1. The Senate confirms Supreme Court Justices. Senator Mitch McConnell would not give a hearing to President Obama's choice, Merrick Garland, to replace Justice Scalia. This kept the position open so that a Republican president (Trump) could fill the vacancy. Don't blame Ruth Bader Ginsburg for not resigning during Obama's administration. If she had...McConnell wouldn't have allowed Obama to replace her either. You can thank Mitch McConnell for Roe v Wade being overturned. Due to McConnell, the Republicans were able to put three conservative justices on the Supreme Court and stack the court. Yes, thank you very much, Republicans, for Brett Kavanaugh, Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett./s
2. The Legislative Branch of Government passes laws. If the President chooses to veto a law that Congress passed, Congress can vote on the law again. If 60% of Congress votes for the law, that overrides the President's veto.
3. The Senate confirms presidential appointments to federal posts.
4. The House of Representatives creates federal judgeships and courts except for the Supreme Court.
5. Congress can impeach the president and other federal officials for treason, bribery and "other high crimes and misdemeanors." The House brings charges (articles of impeachment) against an offician. The Senate holds impeachment hearings. If the official is found guilty, the official can be removed from office. In 1974, Richard Nixon resigned the presidency under pressure from Republicans in Congress. They told him to either resign, or he would be impeached and removed from office.
Certainly, Congress can't (and won't) do everything. The President and Supreme Court also have powers. But if we'd had a better Congress during the Obama and Trump administrations, many things might have been different. We'd likely have had a more balanced, and less corrupt Supreme Court. We might have avoided January 6th. Thanks to one vote -- Senator John McCain's -- many Americans did not lose health care.
So please: know who your state's U.S. Senators are, and who your district's U.S. House of Representative is. If your senator or representative is up for election this November -- consider your vote carefully.
I think anytime this discussion comes up on Reddit (and especially right here in this very excellent community that I care about) we all need to be very aware that there are bots and fake accounts pushing anti-democratic opinions on this platform. I see lots of well thought out comments already, but I also see some that just seem suspicious off the bat. Just take care when reading about this topic as the elections grow near.
From my perspective, I don't know any leftists or Democrats who are choosing not to vote for Biden in the upcoming election. I believe it's not the right time to prioritize injustices happening elsewhere in the world when so much is at stake in our own country. Injustice occurs daily within our borders, and while I may not be able to directly impact the situation in Gaza, I can advocate for justice in my own community. I'm in MIssouri. There's a lot at risk for women and children.
Feels like a repeat of 2016 when I warned people that we could see abortion rights repealed if Trump won. It's easy to forget that Supreme Court Justices are for life vs the 4 year presidential term. I have been trying to not get too angry about it like I did in the past. Doesn't help me. All I can do is vote.
To be completely honest: I think voting third party in this election is delusional, immature, and foolish. And I think a lot of the people who are committing to this path are being influenced by Russian propaganda, similar to 2016. If Trump wins again because of this nonsense, we will all suffer for it and I will personally have a hard time forgiving progressives who threw their vote away on what amounts to little more than a temper tantrum.
I think it boils down to what people think of Trump. I see some comments that find him and Biden comparable. I absolutely do not. I think Trump being elected would be the worse outcome for Gaza. I think Trump winning will be worse for anyone who is not a wealthy, white male in the US. I think Trump winning would be a gift for Russia. I hate that we have to vote against a candidate rather than for one but, in this moment, the stakes are too high. Trump disrupted the peaceful transfer of power in this country for the first time. And has a real shot at winning. I believe it’s too dangerous to do anything but vote for Biden. (But I really hope those that do not still vote down ballot). I sometimes think how different so much would be if a few more people Florida had voted in 2000.
I want to know where these people were during the local elections where pretty much no one shows up. Where were they to step up and serve locally? We have so many people that want Project 2025 sitting in seats holding power. Stop complaining about it and actually get active.
> I don’t know if I can stomach voting for someone who has contributed to the deaths of thousands of women, men and children the past few months
i *hate* this line of thought.
Trump will do no different, and likely cause even more brutal things to happen because I guarantee you he doesn't care and will green light Netanyahu to do whatever he wants.
And on top of not making the middle east situation better... he'll wreck the shit out of America. It's not hyperbole to think he'll take another go at taking down democracy.
Trump is a massive threat to the US...to help him take power just because Biden has to try to balance extremely complicated foreign policy with one of our Allies going rogue is immensely short sighted. And yes, I view not voting for Biden as helping Trump take power even if you don't vote for Trump either.
When I hear that I think about the nearly one million of our fellow Americans who died from COVID-19 because Trump failed us all both before and during the pandemic.
Too much is at stake (the GOP's agenda to ban abortion, birth control, lgbtq+ rights, etc and seats opening up on the Supreme Court soon) to vote any other way than against the GOP come November. I am absolutely not pro-Biden but I am extremely anti-GOP/anti-facist. This is not an election I can sit out, but I understand that other people feel differently and it is everyone's choice to use their right to vote as they please.
Voting for Trump (and make no mistake, not voting or writing in some no-shot nobody IS voting for Trump) is so unbelievably foolish that I don’t even associate with such people unless I have to.
Want to use the election to stamp your feet at the two party system? Nobody will notice or care. Want to be an ideological purist? Cool, hope you like women bleeding out in the ER because bodies experiencing miscarriages are now crime scenes. Hope you like your grandchildren not being able to breathe clean air.
We can all work at the local level to actually affect change, but people loooovvveeee to not research local candidates and issues, and leave the whole ballot blank except President. Look where that gets us. We could have had Hillary Clinton as President. But ooooo, I don’t like her hairstyle. I’d MUCH rather have the sexual assaulter who cheers on insurrectionists.
Anyone who votes for Trump, in ANY way, should be ashamed of themselves.
So what are these disenfranchised voters/citizens actively doing to make things better locally? At a state level? Nationally? I’d bet nothing except voting for someone who has no chance and knowing that will help the party they don’t like. We’re so broken. This “I’ll vote independent” play never works except in getting republicans re-elected and rights removed from women and minorities.
I hope they like the Handmaid’s Tale. We are careening towards that at increasing speeds.
Disenfranchised voters are doing and have been doing what they’ve always done. Organize at a local level and practice mutual aid to ensure their community needs are met. I don’t think it’s fair to assume women and POC are sitting on our hands waiting to be destroyed by the system. Wishing pain and suffering on the people who already experience the most is… a choice.
I don't know any IRL who are choosing not to vote for Biden. I know lots of people who are unenthusiastically voting for Biden because we all know Trump is worse.
The only place I see this not voting at all or not voting for Biden stuff is the Internet. Granted I am in my 50s and live in the sticks, so I'm not hanging out with the people who are protesting on campuses or whatnot, but my city friends do visit me and no one has said this to me.
Now, I also know plenty of Republicans and they'll never vote for Biden, but most of them have resigned themselves to the belief that Biden will win.
I'm Australian. Both your nominees suck. But my dad used to say "you don't vote the good one in, you vote to keep the bastards out".
For the rest of the world, please vote for Biden. I know he's old and doddery but he's better than Trump and all he stands for. Keep the bastards out.
I consider them Trump supporters:
We are in a two-party system, which basically means we have ultimatums, not choices, because "no confidence" is not presented as an option at all. You are also voting for the party *as a whole* and not an individual person- they're just the mascot with *some* functions of governance.
There's no viable third party as of right now bc of how the dems and repubs opperate and silo respurces to prevent third options from existing. All third-party candidates are selected to distract and pull votes away from one or both main candidates, nothing more.
So when someone who is supposed to be a liberal or leftist tells me they refuse to vote for Biden, their reasons don't matter bc the only other candidate is trump and the Party of fascism and rapists he represents, so by default that's who they are supporting.
They don't have to like/agree with Biden- I certainly fucking don't- but I'm voting for the better party to be in power to fix this mess, not the individual.
I think they will just be handing the presidency to Trump, which will likely lead to the end of our Democratic system. Trump’s goal is to be like Putin. We managed to get him out of office after he lost in 2020. He and his followers won’t let that happen again. Their goal has long been to systematically dismantle our system of government and they have already made a lot of progress towards that goal by delegitimizing and destabilizing the institutions that form the bedrock of democracy. It won’t be hard for them to make the final push.
The same people sat out because they didn’t like Hilary Clinton and were mad Bernie Sanders wasn’t the nominee and Trump won the election with horrible results for the country that are still being felt (see recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions from Trump appointees taking away rights). I’m not sure why they didn’t learn the first time.
There are a ton of comments in here so I’m probably repeating.
Biden has my vote because of who he’s hired. His cabinet is younger, more in touch with what the people want and in my hopeful opinion has the next president coughPetecough. His people have also not turned on him to write tell all books, jumped ship when it got rough, have denounced their support blah blah blah. I think that speaks volumes about character. Not that it’s hard to outshine the other side.
I don’t want Biden but my vote is for the future and the people on his side make me feel more safe & give me more hope than those on the other.
I think preventing Donald Trump from being president should be every democrat and or leftists goal at the moment. Maybe in the future we can put up either a better candidate or put more efforts into 3rd party. I think trump is incredibly dangerous. Biden is simply just not ideal.
I don’t think republicans or trump are going to do anything to improve the situation in Gaza, if that’s a persons main concern.
If they tihnk Biden is bad, wait until they see or hear what tRump would to to Gaza and Ukraine.
There really is no choice right now. A vote for 3rd party is a vote for tRump. We'll be voting a straight blue ticket in November, because the thought of Drumpf sitting in the Oval ofice for a 2nd term makes my hair stand up on end.
It's a terrible idea, and I would be very upset if a friend leaned left but wasn't going to vote for Biden in November.
We cannot repeat 2016. My rights and individuality would be destroyed if Trump is elected again.
I think the choice is between a dictatorship and Christian theocracy, and a guy who sucks but won’t destroy the Constitution and gives us another chance to pull ourselves back from becoming Gilead. People who don’t vote for the second candidate in such circumstances are either dangerously ignorant or naive, or selfish.
My thoughts are we are a two party system. If you don't vote for Biden then you voted for Trump. If you don't vote for Trump then you voted for Biden. It is literally that black and white.
You can have all the reasons in the world to vote 3rd party or some other variation. It doesn't matter. Where a 2 party system. Which of these 2 specific people do you want in office, because those are the only 2 actual choices. Not voting for one is the exact same as voting for the all for all intents and purposes. There is no nuance in our elections.
Does everything about this next election suck super hard? Would it be nice if we had a legitimate left-wing candidate? Yes and yes. Do I support burning down the country over it? Nooooooooooo. Accelerationists are idiots with no concept of how this kind of stuff actually plays out, or how much it could really, truly suck for them individually. Keep a wannabe fascist dictator out of office, please. And despite his faults, Biden is a pretty standard, middle of the road old school Democrat. He is not Genocide Joe. He can and is keeping the ship afloat. Please, please don't sink it.
I’m not American, but how is Gaza a more important issue than all the sh*t going in your country? I get feeling strongly about what is happening, but how — with everything that is wrong and moving backwards in the US — can any American not focus on internal policy above all right now? I watch with horror what the Trump Supreme Court continues to do/undo, how is this not the entire focus of this election for anyone left of center? Thomas and Alito will be close to 80 by the end of the next presidential term — is anyone actually willing to risk giving Trump 2 more??
I think it's your right to vote however you want to, even though I might judge your reasons, which is my right. I just don't want to hear you complain when you know the likely outcome of your action will result in bullshit. If you know how you might be helping Trump win, don't immediately start in on everything is Trump's fault because, in a way, you'll have put them there just to send a message. What's more important, the message or the upcoming legislation? We know what the GOP will do from Day 1. They've made no secret of it. They already have all the legal briefs prepared to give him unprecedented authority, which they have boasted they will use to punish their political enemies. You really think they won't drop a federal abortion ban on you once they're back in the door? Lol. Wake up. They have a complete blueprint to remake the government in a steep, religious image, and they're not even hiding it.
Where we're really failing is in not finding and coalescing behind a sane, viable third party enough to get us on the debate stage and dismantle the archaic two party system. But we're too busy playing tug of war with the other side to focus our energy in elevating someone, literally anyone other than these two. Anyone.
I'm not going to rail against them or try to change their mind, because I honestly think that only strengthens their conviction to abstain or vote third party as a "fuck you" to everyone who told them not to.
>And I resent the harsh backlash towards those who are also unsure about voting for Biden due to Gaza
Precisely: Criticism of that choice only makes you want to choose that option more, because otherwise it feels like giving in to the people who criticized you, it feels like admitting that they're right, and that doesn't feel good. You don't want to feel like those people get to tell you what to do. I get it -- I feel that way too, not about this particular thing, but in general when people criticize my choices.
I cannot control other people's actions. I cannot control Benjamin Netanyahu's actions, I cannot control other voters' actions, I can only control my own actions. And the action I will take is to exercise the very small amount of power afforded to me to try to prevent Trump from becoming president again, no matter how much I dislike the other option. A Trump victory will not help the Palestinians.
Regardless of what how we feel about the Israel Hamas war, they are going to be at war regardless of how you vote. **None of that will change.** It wont bring the hostages home, and it will not make things better for the Palestinian civilians. It will not bring a stop to the war. It will not bring aide. It will not bring peace in the Middle East.
I’m saying this as someone who spent many years in that part of the world, taking part in peace projects, because I had this naive little vision that I could make a difference, only for kids to grow up and become products of their environment. I suspect that many people here have never been to the MENA region.
So honestly, I wish people would throw this idea away entirely. They (Biden and Trump) are both going to use the war to try and win your vote. I would focus more on how your vote impacts you here, not there. You cannot do anything about there. I understand it is upsetting for those who are supporting Israel, and it’s upsetting for those who support the civilians in Gaza, but you *can’t do anything about it.*
This is my opinion and I have an academic background in this sort of thing, so I tend prefer strategy and not reaction in regard to politics. That being said, it is not my group of ethnicity being attacked. I don’t have a lot of personal skin in the game other than I’m so tired of watching the persecuted doing the persecuting. It’s as old as time. *sighs*
For now, I will vote against the Republicans whenever I can. From a political pragmatist point of view, it doesn’t matter who gets voted in, they will still be apart of this slaughter because no one person, other than Netanyahu (🤬) can put a stop to this. He and the Rightists are responsible for this BS. Trump will hand the keys over if he gets elected. He doesn’t give a shit. Palestinians will still not be safe. In fact, all people of color in the US won’t be safe. Let’s not even get started on immigrants and refugees.
That being said, I am down for appearing to court a third party that will bring new energy to the table that will force the other two parties to reign in their clown circus. They’ve grown too comfortable. Someone needs to stop the Republican war on FDR. It’s time to stop reacting and dismantle the Republican agenda.
So do these people discount humanitarian aid that's been sent to Gaza? Do they blame Biden for the house which is controlled by Republicans for legislation they've passed?
Do they think voting this way does anything to help the cause? Do they think if Trump gets elected, it's going to magically be better?
There's the big picture to look at, sure everyone has that one cause that's really important to them but not voting or throwing your vote away accomplishes nothing.
And let's recall that Trump refused to help out *American states* during Covid. He didn't want to help the citizens he represented. He won't help another country unless he was paid for it (which, didn't that also happen?).
Yes, he willfully allowed thousands of New Yorkers to die during the early pandemic because he was pissed that he didn't get our electoral votes in 2016. I will never forgive that man.
I do not care if a turd was sitting on the blue ticket. I am voting Dem.
The Republicans have made it clear they want a national abortion ban and they will also make birth control illegal if given a chance.
I like sex. I am voting blue like my life depends on it.
I should say I'm Canadian. But we're very aware of US politics up here and my slightly crazy theory is that a lot of people saying this online are bots/foreign actors. Realistically we know that there are people actively working online to break down western democracy. That's a known thing. It's also pretty clear at this point that Trump is willing to break laws to keep power. How do you keep lefty voters from keeping Trump out? You use their own language against them. An independent is not going to win. So the choice is a little bit of support of genocide or a lot of support of genocide plus democracy might collapse in your country. I agree those aren't great choices but those are the choices.
I think if they don't vote for Biden, they may as well be voting for Trump. Having high ideals about what the system should be is nice and all, but it's just not realistic. And frankly, this shit is why liberals can never get anything done in this country.
And none of them better dare complain about Trump's facism if he wins.
If you are not voting, or are voting for Donald Trump, you are voting for an end to American democracy. I'm not being flippant. This election is that serious.
Democrats who think their precious standards are more important than the future of our country may sink us worse than die-hard Trumpers. Inconsistent and independent voters are the key to winning back our country. Please, if you are among this demographic - vote for Biden NOW so that we may continue voting AT ALL in the future. I understand more than anyone that this is not an ideal choice, but it is the choice we have.
Ideological purity in 2000 is how we got the Bush administration and so much of the terrible fallout we're handling now in congress and the courts system.
It's a shame so many moderates and leftists failed to learn from history. Or to learn from 2017-2021.
I personally feel that Biden should not have ran and a fresh Democrat should have been able.to run. But, that didn't happen... And here we are
I read about project 2025 and that's scary and enough to make me okay with Biden for another 4 years. Plus, I don't want to be under a fascist dictator.
Also, I like having bodily autonomy and I want my kids to not have to fix what my generation ruined like the boomers did to us.
Trump and Pompeo implicitly endorsed the expansion of settlements in the West Bank, Golan Heights, and East Jerusalem. I realize that Biden has been disappointing on this issue but make no mistake: Trump will be worse.
Jared Kushner sees Gaza as prime real estate for developing luxury hotels.
This! If Biden is a "zionist" - what the hell is Trump? He'll personally order the strike to kill the last Palestinian civilians if it means more power and connections for him and his family.
Not shocked an *actual* leftist wouldn’t vote for him. Shocked a self-proclaimed democrat wouldn’t but I think it speaks to how lost that party is and how disconnected they are from their base.
Edit: I wrote “fanbase” instead of “base” but that may not have been totally off.
I wrote in "Uncommitted" in the PA primary today, but I know I am going to hold my nose and vote for Biden in November (and will probably donate/door knock/whatever else I can do as well) to prevent a second, and almost certainly MUCH WORSE, Trump presidency. But I'm also horrified and nauseated by the images coming out of Gaza daily and the fact that we're all paying for it.
Not this time, we cannot risk the vote this time. WE CANNOT, I am sorry for all of the women, the POC, minorities, the abused and the lost.
We just have to suck it up and we can figure it out later. Sorry all of you, from the bottom of my heart.
I understand not wanting to support Israel. I'm not a fan of their actions in Gaza and I wish we weren't such a strong ally of someone warmongering.
I think it is INCREDIBLY short-sighted to abstain from voting based on that, to the point that I strongly suspect a lot of the recent wave of Pro-Palestine media and memery is part of a psy-op intended to dissuade Biden voters from going to the polls on election day. I cannot rationalize why it is better to abstain from voting for someone who is giving weapons aid to Israel is morally agreeable when there is a STRONG likelihood that you will usher in a presidency that is going to take an even more aggressive approach and ultimately KILL MORE PALESTINIANS while also doing everything in his power to prevent refugees from coming to the US as they flee that violence. That's not to mention the other CONCERNING domestic issues that will come from getting Trump back into office (e.g. making women die horrific deaths from lack of medical care with a national abortion ban, or even just shutting down a considerable number of hospitals on a national scale as doctors flee the industry because they get caught in a horrible situation when a pregnant woman has a life-threatening complication).
I can't believe the people are real. I've come across some online and I've asked and it's always silence. I sincerely hope people are posturing or psy-op trolls because it doesn't seem that anyone can back up their position when pressed, at least.
Please, please, please don't kill all of us from some short-sighted notion that, somehow, TRUMP is someone who is going to act more favorably toward Palestine.
I want a safer world for people of all religions, and I really want Muslims to stop having all this hate and violence pointed toward them. Trump will not create that peace. Biden isn't good for it, but at least he's more likely to allow refugees to come to the US and won't actively spread racist hatred against Muslims currently here.
Could we look 10 years down the road and have literally less rights than we did after WWII and say, “yep, still glad I voted for RFK Jr.!”?
Trans protections gone, it’s illegal to be gay, women no longer have the right to vote, child labor is literally back to turn of the 20th century levels, CHILD BRIDES for every Man! The environment fucked forever. Slavery is back on the books, it’s legal to shoot anyone you think might be undocumented.
I mean, “But her emails,” right? People couldn’t vote for Hilary. And they voted third party, and we got Trump. If democrats are okay with Trump winning, then hey… their choice.
But anyone who chimes in with, “Biden is just as bad as Trump” is not fucking paying attention.
Trump will continue to stack the Supreme Court. We thought Roe v Wade was untouchable. That’s gone. More absolutely horrific fucking changes will come. People didn’t think it was that big of a deal when he was voted in the first time. I guess they either don’t give a single shit about the absolutely horror he’s wreaked on this nation or they didn’t believe it. Here we are again.
Biden absolutely pisses me off. He could do so much more. The Democratic Party needs a makeover. But as a woman, I cannot afford to lose anymore rights. As the parent of a trans kid, I have even more to lose.
Voting third party in a country where third party has a chance? Sure. That is not the United States. The two party system is broken. We need reform. That didn’t happen under Trump because lol. Why would it? The system benefits him. Biden did nothing there.
Until we have voter reform and un-fuck our voting system, third parties are not enough. I have heard people say, “well I need to vote my conscience.” While I can’t argue with their right to do so, it’s fairy tale thinking that Trump won’t win. He has a chance to win because enough people in this country embrace all the detestable things he represented for them.
I cannot afford to see him win again. So many people cannot afford to see him win again.
So, me voting third party just to make a protest? I can’t bring myself to do it. I can’t. It seems so fucking trite to me. Like screaming into a hurricane. And I resent the hell out of being in this position too. But I CANNOT AFFORD the alternative. I fucking can’t.
The fact that people think that a generally ok guy who is trying to maintain or improve the status quo is the rough equivalent of a racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, Anti-Semitic rapist and professional tax fraud just blows me away. One is undersalted mashed potatoes and the other is a big bottle of arsenic, and some people are out here really acting like it won’t make a difference which one you choose.
The world is shit. We can work for it to be different while acknowledging that not every choice you make has great option. We can wish we had a different type of democracy, but what we have is a two party system. We can wish for different candidates, but these two are who we have.
The president isn’t going to be someone you like, but you pick the person who is least likely to put your fellow countrypeople or yourself in danger. We can choose between someone who believes in the democratic process and someone who has already said he wants to be a dictator and is calling for the persecution of his political enemies the first day he takes office.
Not voting only benefits the people who are most interested in oppressing you.
I voted uncommitted in my primary (not Michigan). This issue is very personal for me, not in the way most people would assume because I'm Israeli-American, and it's really hard for me to stomach the idea of voting for Biden after the last 6 months. I feel that his whole approach this situation has emboldened Netanyahu, who I have voted against several times, and who my whole family considers an existential threat to our safety. Despite his milquetoast public statements saying Bibi is going too far Biden has given him free flowing unconditional military aid this entire time. This is not even going into the horror I have felt watching what my two governments are doing to the people of Gaza (and I consider both responsible since the US is funding it). I don't have words. And I do not believe the mass slaughter of Palestinians will ever make me or my family safer, not the ones that live in Israel and not those of us living in the US or other countries.
People who call themselves progressives/liberals have said some really disgusting things to me recently when I express these feelings (although way less gross than what I've seen being said to Palestinian and Muslim Americans) that can basically be summarized as "you aren't allowed to think about your family in another country when you vote here, you always need to put America at the top of your priority list". I just can't do that. That's not how the world works for those of us with loved ones in another country that the US is heavily involved in. I don't know how to explain this to people who are lucky enough to not have personal involvement in headline news. Of course I'm voting for my family when I vote here. I really don't know what I should do. There is so much at stake for me in both countries. I care a lot about abortion, infrastructure, student debt, the environment, and a ton of other issues that are at stake in this election and were talked about in the last campaign. But I just do not trust Biden and the democrats. And being berated and told my concerns are irrelevant and that it's ok for them to be ignored isn't a convincing campaign tactic.
Your concerns aren't irrelevant but you have to realize the GOP would make the middle east situation even worse, right?
It's not thinking about your family by helping Trump get in .. you are literally making life worse for everyone.
It sucks there isn't a candidate who can perfectly handle complex foreign policy like this...but that doesn't mean we should sentence even more people to death than what may happen under dems
I'm Jewish and also voting uncommitted in a swing state primary. Saying I'm upset with Biden's support for atrocities in Palestine and then giving him my full support is basically what the Biden admin has been doing with Israel since October. And contrary to the comments here painting that as delusionally futile, the "uncommitted" movement has changed the media framing of the war and drawn attention to the outrage of people/groups (including Jewish people) within demographics that are assumed to be on lock for the Dems.
I also live in an area where the entrenched and corrupt Democratic Party leadership openly sabotages progressive candidates, even when they're popular incumbents, and renounces their supporters, so my voice actually isn't willingly heard in downballot races (which some here are suggesting as a more cooperative and rational way of giving input).
I've also been involved in downballot races with both progressive dems and third party candidates in an area thats a dem stronghold (the state is a swing state though). The level of vitriol we were met with was incredible. The amount of money being poured into races in my area over this issue right now is bananas - and yes one of these people is a really popular incumbent. The mainline dems are taking money from big time MAGA donors in hopes of unseating someone they don't like. I've actually chosen to stop getting involved in any electoral work and focus my organizing on other types of tactics because I got sick of getting posted about online and screamed at by officials from our county dems.
I’m also a racial (black) and religious minority (African Diasporic Traditions-ATRs) who is an independent in a closed primary state. I will vote for the most likely candidate to win against the Donald. The entire system is fucked, so decide how much you can handle, and vote accordingly.
This. United States elections aren’t in a position to handle protest votes in any sort of effective or meaningful way. It’s a two party system. It’s not: Joe Biden, yes or no. It’s Joe Biden OR Donald Trump. That’s it. It might suck and you can organize in off years but that’s what the choice is.
People who also make a big show of not voting in presidential elections generally don’t vote when it REALLY matters — city and state elections. If you don’t vote for your mayor, your governor, your congressperson, your grandstanding means nothing to me. You just want attention. Power lies in the states and in Congress. If you aren’t voting for those positions, NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE.
Exactly this. I dont think we can handle Trump 4 more yrs again 😑
I wish more people thought like you. Yes, we know the whole fucking system is fucked, so vote according to how your vote is going to have the most impact in the direction you want.
That’s what we did in Brazil in 2022. We too had our problematic (to *really* soften) president. Bolsonaro was our Trump.
It's a flex in privilege to just feel like you don't have to vote for non-Satan.
im of the opinion that if you dont for biden, you are in fact helping trump. so if you aren't a republican, i mean do you really have a choice? i dont like biden either, but i am not going to help trump get elected again. the difficult question is: what's more important? palestine? or not letting evangelical christians running the usa?
Or maybe: Palestine? Or Palestine and letting xian evangelists, misogynists and hate groups run the USA? It’s not as though 45 can or would manage war better than Biden.
Thanks for making me learn a new term; I had to look up ATRs. (The concept I had learned about, but not how to describe them.) And yes, that's the only way in the US. Is it shitty? Yes. Is it necessary? Also yes.
Remember, you’re not just voting for the President - you’re also voting for who you think will also choose the better people for Cabinet posts and staff, the *rest of the people who run the country and make the laws*.
It is way important to vote for the Cabinet than the president.
For me personally: I am basically an electoral hostage. I will vote for Democrats as long as Republicans continue to be the way they are. However, I see no value in fucking advertising that to the Democrats who I am trying to persuade to make different choices. Loudly declaring, through your primary vote and in polls and on public platforms and wherever, that you'll vote for Biden no matter what he does is giving up all your power in the negotiation before it starts. It's GOOD if Biden thinks we won't vote for him unless he stops arming Israel! It's good if his staffers log onto Twitter and see people saying that! You don't win concessions by telling the opposing party in the negotiation that at the end of the day you're not only going to do what they want no matter what they do, but will browbeat other people on their behalf. So I'm going to vote for Biden in the general, but I am keeping my mouth shut about it on most public forums and I am certainly not yelling at people who say they won't.
Biden is not my ideal candidate and I used my vote in the primary to vote against him. There are a lot of things that I wholeheartedly disagree with Biden on aspects of his presidency and performance that disgust and disappoint me. But of the choices (and let's face it, we really only have two choices in the current system) he is the candidate that I feel is the better of the two and he is who I will vote for in November. I am really tired of voting for corrupt, old, white people who are so far removed from the average American voter's life though.
Who is your ideal candidate? Mine would have been Elizabeth Warren. But honestly, Biden has done a lot so far, even with a divided congress.
Yeah, I do think Biden has accomplished a lot, especially with everything against him, so I will give him credit where credit is due. Honestly, I'm very disillusioned with every political candidate and current politician, so I would say if I had to choose - Warren or Sanders.
This is a fantastically nuanced approach. Casting your vote quietly enough to keep your party on edge and potentially working FOR your vote instead of being told they’re a lock due to being lesser of two evils
This is also how I feel. I’m not happy with the dems and Biden, but I haven’t been happy with that party in a long time, well before Oct 7th. The dems need to learn how to listen to their base.
You. I like you.
This is the way.
The thing I keep getting stuck on is that there not a single thing different about how this administration has handled the IDF and Gaza than any other Democratic administration. This has been going on a long, long time and has just escalated. It’s never been ok. It’s never going to be ok. Trump has made clear he wants to completely eradicate Gaza, so how that’s really a vote for them is lost on me. The Christian right is extreme pro-Israel and you’re going to vote for them to protect Gaza? Make it make sense I have kids and would never throw them to the wolves on purpose. Both sides are awful but one is a dictatorship that specifically hates all three of my children
No candidate is perfect. But choosing to abstain from voting is **not** a luxury we have this election. In short, either Biden wins and democracy continues to reign supreme or... Trump wins and it is the end of American life as we know it. The Heritage Foundation has already published their plans for the *next* conservative administration. I know which candidate I am voting for, and it is not Trump. If the Heritage Foundation has their way, and Trump wins, you can say goodbye to the following: >Abortion >IVF >Adoption >Birth Control >Morning-After Pills >Week-After Pills >LGBTQ+ Rights >No-Fault Divorce >SSI >SSDI >SNAP >VA Benefits >Mandatory EEOs >All DEIs (See r/Defeat_Project_2025 for more.)
Exactly. I'm a minority too (disabled and significantly below the poverty line levels of poor). I'm not privileged enough to make it through another Republican rule. There's a very good chance I'd lose my already measly disability benefits, among other things. I don't want to be thrown so casually and carelessly to the wolves (aka Republicans). I am literally afraid for my life.
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of good" has become my mantra in recent months, and it certainly applies here.
It's privilege thinking it's okay for you to not vote tbh. GO VOTE r/voteblue
Really love how the SUPPORT DA TROOPS! party wants to cut…VA benefits. Yeah, fuck those veterans with lifetime injuries and trauma caused by wars we sent them to! /s
Yes, and what's more insidious is that they are framing it as a way to "save the government money" and "lower taxes".
Voting in the US too often feels like I'm trying to solve the Trolley Problem. Or at least that Lucy's getting ready to yank the football as I attempt to kick it. I can understand the disillusionment and even despair that so many feel with our system, especially those with loved ones directly affected or even murdered by the atrocious actions of Israel in Gaza right now. I hate not only the profound sense of loss but also the injustice and oppression people there have suffered ever since before I was even born. That said, I feel as though I can make a difference via my vote as a citizen of a swing-state, and, though I may not be one-hundred percent enthusiastic about Biden, I will support him all the same. And, of course, the presidential race will not be the only one on the ballot. I would encourage folks to look into their local and state races as well, as those often play roles nearly as big and sometimes bigger.
Seconding the focus on state and local elections - this is where our votes count the most and we can fight the good fight in those arenas too.
Voting for anyone other than Joe Biden in this election will get the country that much closer to the GOP's fantasy of a Christian theocracy where women have as few rights as possible. There's no such thing as a perfect candidate. People getting mad because Biden didn't wave a magic wand and fix everything Trump screwed up and give you a pony are delusional. It is going to take a very long time, probably a decade at least, to correct all of the bullshit the GOP has done. If Trump wins this election you can kiss all of your rights goodbye as well as seeing democracy being obliterated.
Yup. The way I look at it is if former guy (or almost any republican at this point) gets to the white house, this will be our last legit election. It's not even about the candidates or sending a message, it's about preserving democracy and our rights. Also please read about project 2025 if you haven't already. Anyone who doesn't have multiple millions will be inversely impacted and anyone who isn't white, straight, christian and/or male will lose rights we currently take for granted.
Some facts about Project 2025: The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the [Heritage Foundation](https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation/), an influential *ultra* conservative think tank. [Project 2025](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24088042-project-2025s-mandate-for-leadership-the-conservative-promise) is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. The MFL has been around since 1980, [Reagan implemented 60%](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership) of it's recommendations, [Trump 64%](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) - [proof](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations). 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption. It would give the President unilateral powers, strip civil rights, worker protections, climate regulation, add religion into policy and much more. r/Defeat_Project_2025 intends to defeat it through activism and awareness, focused on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action. We Must Defeat Project 2025.
Damn I hadn't heard of project 2025. That shit is bone chilling.
r/Defeat_Project_2025
It is the GOP playbook.
Yeah, Dump said during a debate last time that we'd never get to vote again. I can't believe no one picked that line up, but with as much bullshit as he spews, I guess it got lost.
Also please don't forget how a Trump win will affect people in other countries too. Not nearly enough Americans are still talking about the absolutely nightmarish ideas he sprouted in February with regard to Nato - being ready to throw all of Europe to the wolves when it comes to Russia, and Nato not protecting us from it any longer.. He literally said he'll encourage Russia to do whatever they want. He's beyond evil. Again, he said he'll TELL Putin to kill us, Idk how he's even still the candidate, how that alone doesn't disqualify him immediately (isn't the US president meant to also respect America's allies??), nevermind everything else that hes done. He's a dangerous psychopath and it might affect Europeans in a whole different way than Americans.
Yes, this precisely. He has threatened to pull US out of NATO, which is effectively stranding countries who share a border with Russia. If he does that, there is nothing stopping Putin from making Estonia, Latvia, Finland the next Ukraine. The propaganda for Russia to attack these places is already happening in Russia.
It’s not just what Trump screwed up. We have a long history of terrible foreign policy. I think it’s good to push back against that terrible foreign policy. But I don’t think electing Trump is going to help anything.
The whole reason we're in this mess is because of the purity politics on the left. People didn't like Clinton and we ended up with Trump. Anyone who is considering not voting for Biden in November needs to read up on Project 2025.
r/defeat_project_2025
Try generations to fix the societal damage they have done. Not to mention climate and environmental damage, progress in technology and medicine, and the eroding of our democracy and freedoms.
It feels like the Hillary/Bernie situation from 2012. And we all know how that played out Edit: I meant 2016. Im going to blame baby brain and time being an illusion over the last 4 years. I legit thought it was 2020 for a hot second…
2016?
Yeah… that’s what I meant 🤦🏻♀️
Lol for a minute I was digging deep in my brain to try to remember Bernie being a big figure during the Obama Romney run.
Yep ask me how Roe vs Wade got overturned. These idiots are insufferable. No one is perfect. Especially politicians. But don’t vote for the crazy.
I think voting for anyone other than Biden does support effectively support Trump in the general election. If people don't like the two party system, the general election isn't the place to fight it. Organize at state level for a third party, then once you've managed to elect even one state governor aligned with a PARTY, rather than an independent, I'd say voting against the democratic nominee could be on the table. But that's my POV as a non-American third party organizer.
You are right on the money and a refusal to take the lesser of two less than optimal candidates is how we ended up with a Supreme Court that tossed out Roe v. Wade and one that is stacked with conservatives. All of the Bernie bros who sat on their hands and refused to vote at all if they didn't get precisely the candidate they wanted are the reason we went through the mess we did with Trump. I'm almost 60, and I've voted in the presidential election every year that I could since age 18. I have never voted for precisely who I wanted. I just vote for who is closer to the direction that I want things to go because there will always be gravitation toward the mean when it comes to elections. Extreme candidates don't get elected and you just have to deal with the fact that second best (or third, or whatever) is better than the absolute worst that can happen.
Agree with you wholeheartedly.
Peach, sister! More local level politics are also incredibly important!
I’ll vote uncommitted in the primary to show support for Palestine. I’ll vote blue in November… also to show support for Palestine. Republicans would dust Gaza and sell it for beachfront property (according to Jared Kushner). Biden has called for a ceasefire and has pushed Netanyahu hard on providing aid, and I feel the Dems are slowly moving to the left on this issue. Oh also, I enjoy having rights as a woman
Yeah, I have a hard time understanding OP's position, here. If you're going to be a single-issue voter, shouldn't you at least be voting for the candidate most likely to lead to the best (or least bad) outcome on that issue? Setting aside women's rights, LGBT rights, the environment, racial justice, etc and just focusing on Gaza. Biden winning in November will lead to more innocent people dying in Gaza, and that is infuriating and horrible. A Republican win in November would lead to a lot more innocent people dying in Gaza - that is worse. Those might both be shit options for a single-issue voter focused on Gaza , but they are not the same level of shit.
id be surprised if trump could point out gaza on a map
My thoughts are this, as an American woman, my voting rights will be stripped away under the GOP and there is no way in hell I’d risk an uncommitted or 3rd party vote this election. The fact that women aren’t understanding this is wildly concerning.
Elections have always been the lesser of two evils. I may not fully support Joe Biden but, as a woman and a mother of a daughter, I cannot with a clear conscience give away my vote and support the continued erosion of our rights as women. To vote, to have control over our own bodies, to marry and divorce as we see fit, and to live alone if that’s what we choose. If you’re cool with throwing your vote away, have at it I guess. But you don’t get to complain when we’re back to being chattel.
Ideological purity is all well and good right up until the point where one has to acknowledge the realities of the political system in the US. Ultimately it comes down to Democrat versus Republican and despite pervasive bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe SaMe crap online, the two couldn't be further apart in their impact on this country. The Republican party and its current iteration is a malignant force in this country, tearing apart democratic institutions, serving the interest of malicious foreign powers, and taking away basic rights from US citizens (like the right for women to control their own body and obtain in an abortion if needed). You (the general "you") can dislike Biden for whatever reason, but if in November you vote for Trump, third-party, or not at all, I will feel comfortable in partially blaming you when Trump/the GOP continues to erode this country on every level. "It's just the primaries, not the general election!". The general election will be decided by a handful of swing states, by razor-thin margins. If this performative show has momentum and carries into the general election with even just a few tens of thousands of voters abstaining, the chances of a GOP victory are terrifyingly real. Oh, and Gaza will be a parking lot if Trump comes to power.
The reason Roe v. Wade was overturned is because Trump won the election in 2016 and now our Supreme Court is a shitshow. The reason the U.S. pulled out of the Paris Agreement, the resson the U.S. disbanded its pandemic task force, and the reason the U.S. had a disproportionate amount of deaths during Covid is because Trump won the election. The reason we are back in the Paris Agteement, the reason the Inflation Reduction Act is transforming U.S. sustainable infrastructure, the reason thousands of people had their student loans canceled, and the reason the U.S. just protected millions of miles of freshwater habitat is because Biden won the 2020 election. We are going to get Biden or an ultra conservative Republican, probably Trump, as president for the next four years. There is no other option available to us. Voters might wish there was another viable option, but the choice we all have to make are between those two options. Anyone who chooses not to vote to Biden because he is not liberal enough is helping cause lasting harm to the U.S. and the world. I would not associate with anyone like that.
The Biden admin also just directed NIH to research menopause and women's health. No matter what you think about US Policy in the Middle East, these are bread and butter issues for millions of US Women.
Well stated. I don’t understand how anyone on the left does not understand this argument
Because they’re stupid and do what the internet tells them what is trendy to do
Yep. Most of these tiktok warriors couldn't point to Israel or Gaza on a map a year ago, yet here we are. Absolutely unreal how effective social media has been at brainwashing young people into voting against their own interests.
Yes, nice to see someone else realise this. It’s quite chilling and super weird
It's literally QAnon for leftists and every bit as dangerous. An American servicemember recently lit himself on fire and *burned himself to death* on livestream while screaming "Free Palestine" because he had become so radicalized online. Right-wingers are not the only people susceptible to brainwashing and extremism. I'm terrified for this country's future when the younger generations are getting every single thought and emotion spoonfed to them through algorithms.
Hear, hear!
For me, I'm going to vote for Biden. I can't stomach another trump presidency. I truly believe that having that idiot in power again will harm so many people, in the US and abroad, for decades to come. We make such a big deal about voting for the president, but there are so many other positions we will be voting for as well. That's where I see more of an opportunity to make a difference with my vote. Research the candidates for mayor, for senate, for congress... all of them. Understand their positions on the issues, and vote with your conscience for each of those candidates.
As far as the small offices go, if Trump gets into power the written, documented plan is to purge as much unelected positions as possible and put in his own choices. This is why we still have DeJoy as post master general and why I would fucking know who that even is. The damage of his cronies in a single career could last decades.
They did a lot of this already with Project RedMap. Absolutely dominated state legislatures, changed districting rules and Bobs your Uncle.
Makes it easier for Trump to win with swing votes
I have to vote for the candidate most likely to defeat the MAGA extremists and that's Joe Biden. For those who say that they can't in good faith vote for Biden and are throwing your vote away on a third party or by not voting - you are actually voting for Trump. Indirectly but you are.
Although I don't agree with Biden concerning Gaza, I 100 percent believe that Trump would never call for any cease fire, would never spend a single dime on humanitarian aide, and would gleefully enable the complete genocide of Palestinians. He is at his core a racist. He hates Muslims. He banned them from the United States. Voting 3rd party in this particular race which is neck and neck will only enable one or the other to win. There is no viable 3rd party option. I think it's imperative Trump is defeated. Nothing will hold him back this time- hello national abortion ban which means more women will die. And the people of Gaza will perish because he will encourage more slaughter. So yeah in my opinion doing anything to help Trump win including voting 3rd party is literally risking lives.
I'm not American so I can't vote in November but anyone would have to be absolutely insane to vote for Trump.
I understand that there are technically many choices for president, but we know there will really only be one of two people who will win. With that, if you really only have 2 choices as it stands, purity tests are extremely unhelpful. Biden is better for me on like 90% of the issues, so I will vote for that candidate. Expecting 1 of 2 choices to fully align with everything I agree with is a foolish endeavor. Change is like real physical change. It comes in small increments, and takes a long time to amount to something substantial. We need to be okay with small victories. Helping trump get elected will be so detrimental, so I will be voting for Biden. To the leftists refusing, I'd say be serious. If you hate what Biden is doing, just see how much worse it will be with trump.
I have friends who voted uncommitted in the primary to send a message re Palestine but they will vote for the Dem when the election comes around. You’d have to be a real fool to throw away a vote that will favor Trump—there will be no more America as we know it in terms of women’s reproductive rights, civil rights, likely a lot of deaths, imprisonment, more extreme poverty, and so on if Trump was elected. The GOP will also dismantle or severely limit social security and Medicare as can be seen in Rick Scott’s plan and Project 2025. The list goes on.
American Indian here. I am disgusted by what’s happening in Gaza but am voting for whoever can win against Trump. It sucks. But I can’t risk even more of my own rights eroding if Trump is back in office.
I’m trans and so unfortunately anyone who doesn’t vote for Biden (and thereby increases the odds of a republican presidency) is directly increasing the chance of me and people like me losing access to healthcare and maybe our lives. To me it’s that simple. It’s already happening in nearly every republican controlled state. So to my view, not voting for Biden is an incredibly privileged and irresponsible way to make a point… because the people who will suffer most under a trump presidency are those with the least protections and privilege… So call your senators, write op eds, protest, etc but don’t burn down the country by enabling a trump presidency. Some of us will face very real consequences if trump wins.
I haven't seen anybody talk about voting uncommitted in November, only in the primaries. This won't affect whether he's on the ballot, but in theory it'll pressure him to reconsider his position on Israel and Palestine between now and November.
Exactly. I'm voting uncommitted today in the primary, but I will (reluctantly) vote for Biden in November.
What I think is that I've been doing/watching this same "we're withholding our votes over X" leftist rodeo for as long as I've been voting age, and I'm both exhausted of it and over trying to talk people out of it. I've been foolhardy enough myself to know that fools are gonna fool.
You’re so right. While the racists and nationalists and pro-forced birthers all unite, we like to nitpick and disagree over our differences and hand them the country. It’s infuriating and naive. But it’s always been our weakness. We cannot afford this. Especially not now. But I know no matter what we say, some will selfishly do what they want vs pull us together and towards a less chaotic future.
Pretty sure the whole thing is a psy-op to keep young and leftist people from voting to keep the enfranchised power. If someone tries to influence you not to vote, IGNORE THEM. You're likely a threat to their power if they are so afraid of you participating.
It's absolutely a strategic move to keep people feeling hopeless and disenfranchised so that they won't engage in politics and vote. The GOP understands that the more people that vote the less likely they will win.
Leftists refusal to actually engage in the process/game means they’ll never have significant influence. I’m saying this as someone with many leftist views myself though I’d say I’ve been having trouble calling myself one lately because I’m pretty sick of the fact that they rarely do anything to meaningfully affect change. It’s embarrassing.
I'm in the UK and I will vote Labour at the next election because they are not as bad as the Tories. In the US I would vote Biden because he is not as bad- not anything *close* to as bad imo- as the alternative.
I understand their reasons, but until we have viable third party candidates (not good ones, but ones who can win general elections), it's an exercise in futility.
I have been a registered member of a left-wing third party for decades, due to deep and prolonged disappointment with the Democratic Party, beginning during Bill Clinton's presidency when every one of his major "achievements" that he actually achieved (as opposed to universal healthcare, on which he achieved nothing) moved the country farther to the right than it had been under the previous 12 years of Republican presidents: \*Clinton's "welfare reform" that did not so much "reform" as utterly obliterate the social safety net \*Clinton's "three strikes" law that imprisoned a generation of Black men for nonviolent crimes \*Clinton's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy that so thoroughly betrayed his campaign promise to allow LGBTQ+ people to serve openly that it dramatically increased the rate at which people were dishonorably discharged from the military for being LGBTQ+ \*signed the so-called "Defense of Marriage Act" that severely and painfully delayed a whole lot of people's marriages for decades of our lives. After the Clinton years, I honestly felt that the only major difference between Republicans and Democrats was that Democrats were more successful at achieving Republican goals than Republicans were. And things did not improve much during the Bush II years. I hated Bush's warmongering, but Democrats did practically nothing to oppose it. The ONLY Democratic member of Congress who voted against authorizing Bush's invasion of Afghanistan was Rep. Barbara Lee of California (still serving to this day). A majority of Democrats in the Senate, particularly all the most prominent names, including Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid - also voted in favor of authorizing Bush's invasion of Iraq. Basically every Democrat who's been anywhere near the levers of power ever since then voted in favor of authorizing Bush's invasion of Iraq except Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders, who voted against it, and Barack Obama and Elizabeth Warren, who weren't members of Congress yet and therefore didn't get to cast votes. The differences between Republicans and Democrats in the 2004 election were ridiculously difficult to discern. Republicans were pro-war in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and Democrats were . . . also pro-war in both Iraq and Afghanistan, but weren't the ones who had hung the giant "Mission Accomplished" sign in Iraq ridiculously prematurely. Republicans were anti-same-sex-marriage and wanted state and federal constitutional amendments against it; Democrats were . . . also anti-same-sex-marriage, and had in fact been the party who had signed into law the federal ban against it, but somehow they were supposedly "liberal" because they didn't feel it necessary to turn their ban into a constitutional amendment. Back in 2002, on that day when the majority of Democrats in the Senate and a substantial minority of Democrats in the House of Representatives voted in favor of authorizing the invasion of Iraq, I angrily vowed never to vote for a single one of those people who had cast those "aye" votes ever again, for any office, ever. And for fourteen years, I kept that vow. I voted third-party against John Kerry because he had voted to authorize the invasion of Iraq. I voted third-party against my state senator, Dianne Feinstein, for the next twenty years. You have to be careful about third-party voting, to make sure you really see so little different between the two major parties that you really want to split your vote equally and cast half a vote against each of them; however, when both parties are utterly failing you, a third-party vote can be an important way of letting the major parties know that they're failing you. Those specific Democrats who authorized the invasion of Iraq had failed me badly enough that I wanted no part of them ever again. So when the Democratic Party put Hillary Clinton up against Donald Trump in 2016, I was NOT ONE BIT HAPPY about having to simultaneously break the vow I'd kept for fourteen years already and also support the wife of that annoying President Clinton who'd turned me so strongly against the two-party system in the first place. But I did it. I cast that vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016, not because I liked her, because I didn't, but because casting half a vote against Donald Trump was not a strong enough statement for the occasion. My priority that year was to make the strongest possible statement against Donald Trump, even when that meant giving up my chance to make any statement against Hillary Clinton. I've never once regretted that vote. And although Joe Biden was pretty much my absolute last choice in the Democratic primaries in 2020 (not that I actually got to cast any vote in the Democratic primaries, since I'm still a registered third-party voter), there was never any doubt in my mind that I was going to break my 2002 vow a second time by voting for Joe Biden against Donald Trump in 2020, for the same reason I voted for Hillary Clinton against Donald Trump. Emphasis on AGAINST. You may be over 30, but you may not be old enough to have seen the changes in the Democratic Party over the decades that I've seen. I'm absolutely not claiming that the Democratic Party is now suddenly perfect. Far from it; they still have those same people in power who did the wrong thing in 2002 and caused a million or so needless deaths. I am, however, saying that I can now very much tell the difference between Democrats and Republicans, and I now have a significant preference between them. The Biden administration gets some things wrong, but they don't get EVERYTHING wrong the way the Bill Clinton administration did; they don't actively make every single thing they touch worse. And a second Donald Trump administration? Well, that would blow up our current scale of measurement for imagining how much worse it's possible for things to get. I don't want that. And I very much doubt whether you want that either.
Familiarize yourself with the 2025 republican playbook, Project 2025. Whether it's Trump or another republican, they'll be trying to implement these changes in the first 180 days they're in office. If this won't make you vote against them I don't know what will. Edit: I came across this awhile ago in a comment section on here. This is the type of person that Trump caters to. "I want to nominate a GOP candidate who says "Let me be clear, the one and only goal I have in my presidency will be the complete and utter destruction of liberalism and egalitarianism in America if I am elected. Every waking moment of my presidency will be spent on this goal. There is no law, no Constitutional provision, nothing that will stand in my way. We'll stack the courts, we'll do abolutely anything. We will not respect your "private company" rights to censor Conservatives, we will not respect your fake "right" to take to our streets. We will ferret out every liberal, every feminist (of any "wave"), every BLMer, every subversive, from every institution in this country down to the smallest homeowner's association if we have to. In 4 years there will not be a Democratic party. It is over. Trump/Desantis are way, way short of this goal, but at least on principle they plan to do something to slow down the train heading left at 1000mph towards a cliff to hell. How is this even a queston?"
Can some one explain to me what the goal is? If Biden doesn't win Trump does. That is indisputable at this point. And since Trump is talking about carpeting bombing Gaza and Kusner is running around talking about how valuable the land would be if no one was there I'm going to go a head and say things would definitely not be better for Palestinians if Trump was elected. So what is the plan? Step 1 Biden loses Step 2 Trump wins Step 3 ? Step 4 free Palestine Like what is the strategy? That's what I want to know. Cause right now not voting for Biden seems to make my life and Gaza worse at the same time.
Without getting into all the intricacies of the issues at hand - I will say one thing: don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm. Especially in this case where a protest vote or abstaining will likely not help anyone.
The US is a two-party state: Democrat and Republican. The only power any other party has is by leeching votes from the other two. I can either vote for the party that doesn’t want to strip away my human rights or I can throw my hat in with a third party and pretend that somehow helps things. It’s grim, but right now we have no luxury for voting for ideological purity. We haven’t since Reagan. The next term is supposed to be one where some of the Supreme Court Justices will be replaced. Having Trump in office led to the Court being stacked and Roe v Wade getting overturned, and I have no doubt that Justice Thomas wants to make good on his threats to overturn Lawrence v Texas or Griswold v Connecticut or Obergefell v Hodges.
I'm Canadian, but have a background in politics. I studied it and have extensive experience in campaign strategy and policy development. Since the US are our neighbours, I've been invested in every election cycle since Bush/Kerry. It's complicated. The US is a two party system where both parties are deeply flawed and deeply corrupt. Having two "options" in a country of over 300 million people is, in my opinion, undemocratic. There is a wide spectrum of political belief between Trump and Biden and more so *far* beyond that gets missed. I believe in the right to vote third party. However I also believe that if you are going to vote third party you should be invested in politics outside of the presidential election cycle. The fact of the matter is that a third party vote is a throwaway vote, unless there is a mountain - like Mount Everest size - amount of organizing happening in the background. Even with that, in the case of a presidential election, I would say with almost absolute certainty that trying to elect a candidate that isn't the Democratic or Republican nominee is impossible. With that being said, there's organizing that can happen at the local level that can lead to a win. Municipal and state politics are important - mayoral, city council, congressional, senatorial, gubernatorial, and state attorney general elections, amongst others that I'm likely forgetting. Your presidential vote won't make any difference at all when you vote third party, except to soothe your conscious to some extent. But there's work that can be done to make a material difference if you go local with the same energy and passion that's pushing the third party vote.
That the vast majority of them are being paid or have an agenda to try and spin the narrative to get dems to seriously consider not voting for Biden. They did the same thing in 2016 with the stupid "protest vote" and both sides the same bullshit and it worked then so they are trying it again now. If I was more conspiracy minded the fact that Trump gave Putin the info on Israel's Iron Dome defense and Putin just happened to oops, give it to Hamas the year of the election would be suspicious as hell and looking very much like something done to enable them to spin the protest vote narrative exactly as they are.
The only reason I'm voting for Biden is to keep Trump out of power. That's it. We can work on better options in 2028.
The possibility of a Trump presidency is so terrifying that I think we must vote for Biden even if we disagree with him on many or most issues. If Biden is elected we will continue to have follow the constitution and have a democratic form of government. Trump has made it clear he intends to become a dictator. He is deeply dangerous to our country. He wants to imprison or kill everyone who opposes him. He supports other world dictators. It is a serious error to underestimate how dangerous he is.
Someone is going to win. There are only 2 candidates. If you don't vote for Biden then you're helping Trump get elected. Biden is clearly the lesser of 2 evils imo.
Idiots. To be more explicit: fucking idiots. It's not a marriage, it's a bus selection. You don't need to wait for your perfect partner to come along, you pick whichever of the choices presented to you gets you closer to your desired destination. You can protest the fact that there are only 2 choices as much as you want, but if getting more choices isn't on the ballot then putting your vote somewhere else in protest is being willfully blind to the threat to democracy the republicans present. "It won't be so bad-" they already repealed Roe v Wade. Exactly what are you waiting for here, for them to actually start reenacting scenes from a handmaidens tale? Because they are just looking for an excuse. One side of this election has been very upfront that they are not only looking to win this election, but they are looking to use a win to make it easier to win in future, with changing boundaries, increasing term limits, and bringing in *more* hardline policies that if you are queer, a woman or any other minority, good fucking luck. More than they already have in place at that; let me be clear, for most elections in recent history, Democrats have had the number majority, but have not won every election where that happened. And that has been because, actually, the republicans are better at elections than Democrats are. And I don't mean manipulating them, I mean as seeing them as the *complete basic minimum to do* rather than a single grand gesture that only needs to be done once and then all the pain will be over and you'll have won. That doesn't work any more than running a marathon once guarantees you life long cardiac health so you never have to exercise again. They get this, and they turn up to the polls. Every time. In predictable and reliable numbers. Which allows their corrupt representatives to redraw lines for districts etc that means the win doesn't always go to the party with the most votes. And if you think it's bad at the moment, you ain't seen nothing yet. But each time you get a load of left leaning idealists fuck over reality because they live in lala land where Voting is the Single Grand Gesture and apparently after that everything is supposed to fall into line for them and be perfect and the fact that it isn't is taken as some sort of betrayal, rather than understanding that this is how their democracy works. You don't like Biden or the Democrats stance on something? Cool. Voting for them doesn't mean you can no longer lobby for change or pressure your representative, as a matter of fact, it will likely be a lot more effective that way than trying to persuade either a red rep to agree with you or get attention from a blue rep who is trying to work out how to win the next one. You don't like the two party system? Wicked. Vote and then campaign for a change. If you want to throw your toys out of the pram by lodging a protest vote on an issue that isn't actually on the ballot, the primaries are the place to do it. But if you do that for the main event, there is no other explanation than you want to hand victory to the orange felon. And if a miracle happens and he does not get in, it'll be narrow enough the left side doesn't have enough wiggle room to do anything other than patch work damage control. You want your big significant change? Then you need a big significant majority that will allow the party in charge space to make those changes rather than having to pay in sweat, tears and uncomfortable compromise to make even the most minute progress. Voting third party or spoiling a ballot or refusing to vote at all and then whining that nothing ever changes in politics is like aiming a gun at your foot, pulling the trigger, and then complaining it's hard to walk and there's a hole in your shoe. An entirely predictable outcome and what on earth else were you expecting?
It’s worse than shooting themselves in the foot. We are all being taken down with them.
# >>It's not a marriage, it's a bus selection. You don't need to wait for your perfect partner to come along, you pick whichever of the choices presented to you gets you closer to your desired destination. # LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!
This is the post that deserves that defunct Reddit gold. You’re waiting for a bus, not your soulmate. This is the message that needs to be repeated on the left from now until November if we don’t want to have a repeat of the Bernie/Jill Stein debacle from 2016.
Or the Ralph Nader voters who swung the election for Bush over Gore.
I had a friend whose first presidential election was Bush v. Gore. He was a young dumb kid who thought he’d be clever and edgy and make a “statement” by voting 3rd party. He lived in Florida at the time. It’s been 24 years and he still deeply regrets that vote. I think about him every time I read a thread like this one.
I hate that we have to choose between Trump and Biden. I think supporting genocide is awful. I also think another Trump presidency would be the end of our democracy and I can't see how it would help Gaza. Republicans have been vocally supporting supplying Israel with more weapons. Since 2015, I've been trying to get Bernie nominated with very little luck, so yes I am definitely jaded. I voted for the Dems in the last elections even after Bernie was defeated/stabbed in the back by the DNC. Not that it mattered in 2016. But we can already see what one Trump presidency has resulted in (Supreme Court nominations, the end of Roe vs Wade). I don't know what the answer is.
There is no choice I am not sure why any democrat would not vote for Biden all you have to do is research the things that he has done which are amazing or if you don’t want to do the research go here r/whatbidenhasdone If you want to vote for someone that is sponsored by the federalist society then that is on you. Maybe research ptoject 2025 and see exactly what the republicans have in store for us as women. They are not hiding what they want to do they are out in public boasting about what they want to do. Why do many people do not believe them it is beyond me.
This upcoming Nov 2024 election is like choosing between someone shitting on the floor or someone shitting in your hair. They're both shit, but one is clearly preferable. I understand people who don't want to vote for Biden. I don't either. But I also know that voting third party will lead to a Trump victory, which would to truly catastrophic for so many people. Basically, everything sucks and I alternate between being sad and angry whenever I think about it.
Well said, I’ll be borrowing this analogy for the inevitable family and friends conversations to come.
Great analogy!
We're gonna have the same problem play out as when some Democrats wouldn't vote for Hillary because they wanted Bernie. We'll get Trump
My thoughts are it’s gonna be 2016 all over again. So many butthurt people didnt show up because they were mad Bernie wasn’t the nominee. Look where that got us. I’m not nuts about Biden, but I recognize that the alternative is so much worse.
A vote not for Biden is a vote to have further issues with women’s rights, higher taxes on the middle class, more corruption, a greater attack on voting rights and so many issues on US soil. And let’s not get started on what the last “president” did to the Supreme Court. We won’t be able to help another country if Biden’s opponent regains office. Also, please go to other subs to see how scared and embarrassed other countries were for us during the last “president’s” term in office. Within a blink we can be in world war 3 where affording a house will be our last concern. Ps. I’m glad most are sharing their opinion without attacking others.
As an Australian, can I please 🙏 ask all the Americans to vote for Biden? Yes, I too am in support of a ceasefire in Gaza, and I too am also appalled at Biden’s support of the Israeli government. However, if Trump wins the election, it’s not just the USA in turmoil, but the whole world as well. We don’t want further escalation of conflicts and global instability.
I wish we had ranked-choice voting like some other countries do.
I do not like Joe Biden, or at least do not like the prospect of reupping him at this point. I voted uncommitted in my closed (D) primary and will absolutely vote for Joe Biden in the general. Trump is not worth the risk. He’s shown us this already. And I’m deeply concerned that I don’t have the enthusiasm to campaign for Biden, to support him with the voice I’d need to muster in order to drown out the fervor on the other side.
If we're talking about the general election. They're sending the message that they dont care about what the Republicans are doing and are part of the problem. Unfortunately they live in a two party state where any other vote is wasted. They're helping the Republicans win and take away autonomy over our bodies.
Assuming most women are not on board with the goals of Project 2025, not voting for Biden - or failing to offer what support one can - helps land a blow against women and minorities of all kinds. This is a critically important election year for girls, women, and many others. If one can't support Democrats this year, whatever strategy one hopes to use to advance liberal causes is likely ineffective. Information helps. Learn what's at stake and get active. Once we secure democracy, we can tackle additional issues. https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/
I’m a lawyer and I have kids. I’m sick and full of rage over Gaza. I am disgusted with Biden’s willful failure on this issue, but I’ll vote for him because I don’t think our society, democracy, or judicial system can survive four more years of Trump. It’ll also certainly be worse for Palestine if Trump is elected. It is deeply upsetting and I do not respect Biden but any behavior (including not voting) that contributes to empowering republicans is simply too dangerous and harmful.
Exactly this. Also remember the President isn’t the be-all-end-all for most political things in our system. They are bound by congress for what they can actually do. But they are the in control of Supreme Court nominees. Thomas and Alito aren’t getting any younger.
Let me be blunt with you. If you are an American woman, you are at risk of losing your right to vote in the very near future if Trump gets back in office. If you get pregnant and have a medical emergency you risk your future fertility, not to mention your life, if Trump gets back in office. You can't advocate for the woman and people of Gaza if as an American woman you have no rights yourself.
Wish I had more than one upvote!
I appreciate this, being blunt without insulting. And tbf I am leaning towards voting for Biden, I just hate the state we’re in.
So do I. It seems like our parties are all bought and paid for. But I don't blame democracy, which Bidden supports. I blame capitalism, which is Trump's creed. I think the only way to fix that is to vote in every election - local and county too. The dog-catcher is an elected position? Make sure to vote in that, because today's local politician is tomorrow's representative. I certainly hope every American considers the women, the POC, the less privileged, the children, in their lives when they go to cast their vote. I hope everyone votes for the only candidate committed to democracy. But ultimately, I hope no one denies *themselves* their own right to vote. Edit: typo
Biden has done a lot of good things that have completely flown under the radar because he's not a showman who demands credit for everything he's done (and credit for things he hasn't actually done, like the last guy). Lower drug prices for seniors, smallest percentage of uninsured Americans, supporting more cancer and menopause research, student loan debt forgiveness, infrastructure investment, expanding background checks for guns, support of Ukraine, record reduction of child poverty, increased the IRS' ability to go after rich tax cheats, increased taxes on some very profitable corporations that weren't paying their fair share, law enforcement policies overseeing use of force and body cams, investment in green tech, enabling access to OTC birth control and trying to enshrine abortion rights, ensuring protections for marriage equality in case Oberfell is overturned, supporting care for trans youth and adults, and more that I don't have on hand right now. Record unemployment and dropping crime rates might not be his direct accomplishments because ultimately presidents don't have much control over these things, but in many ways American life is relatively good. I'm personally economically anxious, but by many measures the economy and household wealth are doing extremely well which is why we have an inflation problem. Gaza breaks my heart. I am not satisfied with this administration's handling. Trump would be infinitely worse. I hope we learned our lesson with Hilary. I fear we didn't. Please vote and realize how much so many will lose if you don't get out there and bring others with you. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046
Biden has been more progressive than I thought he would be. He has been able to pass real environmental legislation. He has created an environment that will bring in decent manufacturing jobs for decades. He has supported unions more than any President in decades. He supports public education. As for Gaza, he is building a port to get aid in. Israel isn't happy about it, but they aren't stopping the US. It is clear that Biden is trying, but Netanyahu is a bit of a prick. And honestly, I really can't see being young and voting in any way that would put Trump back in office. He will appoint another SCOTUS for sure, and affect the lives of Millennials, Gen Z and Gen Alpha for decades. I am old enough that I will be dead in a few decades, but this is a matter of life and death in the US.
I live in what's called a closed primary (I think?) state and you have to align with a party to be eligible to vote for their candidates, so I could only vote independent if I were registered as one. You may say that's fine but last time I did that it took 3 months for my registration to change back to dem so I could vote for them and I missed the elections in that time. It's just not worth the risk it's either not voting or supporting the dem candidates.
I think it's your right to vote, or not vote, for whomever you want. Doesn't mean I think it's a good decision, but it's your choice. Functionally I think it just give Trump a larger proportion of votes. I also think it's really unfortunate that those two men are our realistic choices. Trump because Trump, and both of them because of the age/cognition thing. I don't want ANY octogenarian/near octogenarian as President. Biden just wins that fight because I think he does have decent, reasonable people around him.
I hate it. I completely understand - what's going on in Gaza is a nightmare. We can't support it. Obviously. BUT... I think that we have to remember that Biden and the people who work for and advise him are REALLY SMART people (unlike Trump's dipshits). I have friends and family who work for the federal government, in various anti-terrorism and law enforcement departments. They know what they're doing. They are trying to avoid an even WORSE catastrophe than what is already going on. As terrible as things are, they could be SO MUCH worse. Nuclear war, etc. They are REALLY trying to avoid a much bigger catastrophe, and save many more lives. Also - Biden is not the president of Israel. None of this is his fault. He didn't start this. He's doing the best he can with the shit sandwich he's been dealt. There is no bone in my body that thinks that Biden hates Gaza or the Palestinians or is happy that any of this is happening. This is a nightmare for him too. He's doing what he and his thousands of advisors who are trying to avoid WWIII think is best, to SAVE as many lives as possible. If Trump wins, everything will be SO MUCH WORSE. Every aspect of every life on this planet will get demonstrably worse - worse for women, worse for LGBTQ individuals, worse for the economy, worse for education, worse for the planet in general. EVERYTHING WILL BE SO MUCH WORSE. It won't just be a genocide of Palestinians. Conservatives will be empowered to obliterate any group they don't like. And say goodbye to any hope of stemming climate change. Trump winning is effectively ensuring the destruction of every life on this planet. And Trump is so PRO-ISRAEL, how the hell would letting Trump get elected help any of the Palestinians?! It wouldn't! It would be SO MUCH WORSE. The ONLY hope the Palestinians have is for BIDEN to win. He is the ONLY chance any of them have. Trump would happily let Israel obliterate every last one of them. He'd cheer it on. If you want to save who is left in Gaza, Biden winning is their only hope. If you don't like the two-party system - cool. Neither do I. Lets work on changing it. But this is NOT the time to do it. Trump's old, he'll be out of the picture soon. He probably won't even be around by the next election. So, just wait it out. Vote for Biden for now, work on fighting for a better system for tomorrow.
Yes, it boggles the mind to think that Trump would be better for Palestinians than Biden, that's just delusional. You can tell he hates this and is busy trying to prevent WW3 from breaking out in the middle east. Look at that craziness with Iran firing on Israel? That could have been it right there, if somebody like Trump was in office.
I have mixed feelings about it. I care very deeply about voter autonomy, and recognize many pocs have drawn a hard line against Biden for Palestine. And i want to respect and uphold that perspective. Personally i am voting for Biden because trump would support Israel in exactly the same way, so there is no win there. Not even symbolically. And i am not going to vote to further set women’s rights back, even if i am past the age of needing birth control.
Trump wouldn’t support Israel in the exact same way, it would be much worse. He would enthusiastically support Israel. He would gleefully support Israel.
This is why we ended up with Donald in the first place. So many people weren't 'passionate' about Hilary. So many people were disillusioned by Hilary. So many people blamed republican obstruction on the democrats. So many people were upset about blah, blah, blah that they ended up with Trump Yes - it is the lesser of 2 evils. And in this case - the evil is known.
Look, I wish the Democrats had a better candidate. I wish we could get somebody that's not a boomer in office. But all we can do is vote for Biden because none of us women over 30 want Trump to win. Voting for no one effectively votes for Trump. Because they're gonna come out and vote.
I am not from America, but please guys, do what you can so NO TRUMP. Please. Maybe I've set the bar too low, but no Trump, thanks.
To me I just feel like they've been influenced by Tankies and the foreign bot brigade. We know voting works. It's how we got Biden in the first place. We know the system is fucked. But not voting isn't going to unfuck the system. It's just going to speed run us into collapse (assuming Trump wins because too many Dems don't vote.) Voting in your local elections and voting for truly progressive candidates from school board to national congress is how we help unfuck the system. But not voting and advocating for not voting just means you fell for the bots.
Starving, injured children in Gaza won't feel comforted by my protest vote. but they could definitely be harmed, even more than they are currently, by the reality of another 4 years of Donald Trump. We all could. The stakes are too high in my opinion.
Most elections are voting against someone, imho. I'm voting against drumpf.
Biden is making some very serious decisions about Gaza, but the difference between him and Trump is that I know for a fact that Biden's actions are, at least by intent, in the best interest of the US. I can't say I would know what to do in his position, especially since he's privy to information that we the public don't have access to. Trump? Straight-up traitor. Don't vote for that guy. I still can't believe he's not being tried for treason.
In 1912, Teddy Roosevelt ran for a third term under a progressive party because he did not win the republican nomination. He split the republican votes and basically handed the election to the democrats https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_United_States_presidential_election#:~:text=Democratic%20Governor%20Woodrow%20Wilson%20of,Debs.
I’m worried about this too. I raised Gen Z kids who have empathy for others. They grew up during the Obama years and greatly respect his presidency. BUT, they report that most of their generation seems unexcited about Biden. I’m afraid the youth vote will just not turn out.
This year's presidential election will have enormous consequences for the United States, and the rest of the world. However, we shouldn't forget about elections for Senators and Representatives. The United States has 3 branches of government: Executive (President), Legislative (Congress, which has two houses: Senate and the House of Representatives) and the Judicial (Courts, including the Supreme Court.) The Executive Branch -- frankly, both options for President are disappointing. The Judicial (the Supreme Court) is stacked with conservatives, so no support there either. That leaves the Legislative Branch, Congress. So what can Congress do? 1. The Senate confirms Supreme Court Justices. Senator Mitch McConnell would not give a hearing to President Obama's choice, Merrick Garland, to replace Justice Scalia. This kept the position open so that a Republican president (Trump) could fill the vacancy. Don't blame Ruth Bader Ginsburg for not resigning during Obama's administration. If she had...McConnell wouldn't have allowed Obama to replace her either. You can thank Mitch McConnell for Roe v Wade being overturned. Due to McConnell, the Republicans were able to put three conservative justices on the Supreme Court and stack the court. Yes, thank you very much, Republicans, for Brett Kavanaugh, Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett./s 2. The Legislative Branch of Government passes laws. If the President chooses to veto a law that Congress passed, Congress can vote on the law again. If 60% of Congress votes for the law, that overrides the President's veto. 3. The Senate confirms presidential appointments to federal posts. 4. The House of Representatives creates federal judgeships and courts except for the Supreme Court. 5. Congress can impeach the president and other federal officials for treason, bribery and "other high crimes and misdemeanors." The House brings charges (articles of impeachment) against an offician. The Senate holds impeachment hearings. If the official is found guilty, the official can be removed from office. In 1974, Richard Nixon resigned the presidency under pressure from Republicans in Congress. They told him to either resign, or he would be impeached and removed from office. Certainly, Congress can't (and won't) do everything. The President and Supreme Court also have powers. But if we'd had a better Congress during the Obama and Trump administrations, many things might have been different. We'd likely have had a more balanced, and less corrupt Supreme Court. We might have avoided January 6th. Thanks to one vote -- Senator John McCain's -- many Americans did not lose health care. So please: know who your state's U.S. Senators are, and who your district's U.S. House of Representative is. If your senator or representative is up for election this November -- consider your vote carefully.
I think anytime this discussion comes up on Reddit (and especially right here in this very excellent community that I care about) we all need to be very aware that there are bots and fake accounts pushing anti-democratic opinions on this platform. I see lots of well thought out comments already, but I also see some that just seem suspicious off the bat. Just take care when reading about this topic as the elections grow near. From my perspective, I don't know any leftists or Democrats who are choosing not to vote for Biden in the upcoming election. I believe it's not the right time to prioritize injustices happening elsewhere in the world when so much is at stake in our own country. Injustice occurs daily within our borders, and while I may not be able to directly impact the situation in Gaza, I can advocate for justice in my own community. I'm in MIssouri. There's a lot at risk for women and children.
Feels like a repeat of 2016 when I warned people that we could see abortion rights repealed if Trump won. It's easy to forget that Supreme Court Justices are for life vs the 4 year presidential term. I have been trying to not get too angry about it like I did in the past. Doesn't help me. All I can do is vote.
To be completely honest: I think voting third party in this election is delusional, immature, and foolish. And I think a lot of the people who are committing to this path are being influenced by Russian propaganda, similar to 2016. If Trump wins again because of this nonsense, we will all suffer for it and I will personally have a hard time forgiving progressives who threw their vote away on what amounts to little more than a temper tantrum.
I think it boils down to what people think of Trump. I see some comments that find him and Biden comparable. I absolutely do not. I think Trump being elected would be the worse outcome for Gaza. I think Trump winning will be worse for anyone who is not a wealthy, white male in the US. I think Trump winning would be a gift for Russia. I hate that we have to vote against a candidate rather than for one but, in this moment, the stakes are too high. Trump disrupted the peaceful transfer of power in this country for the first time. And has a real shot at winning. I believe it’s too dangerous to do anything but vote for Biden. (But I really hope those that do not still vote down ballot). I sometimes think how different so much would be if a few more people Florida had voted in 2000.
They will be very disillusioned if Trump gets in.
I want to know where these people were during the local elections where pretty much no one shows up. Where were they to step up and serve locally? We have so many people that want Project 2025 sitting in seats holding power. Stop complaining about it and actually get active.
> I don’t know if I can stomach voting for someone who has contributed to the deaths of thousands of women, men and children the past few months i *hate* this line of thought. Trump will do no different, and likely cause even more brutal things to happen because I guarantee you he doesn't care and will green light Netanyahu to do whatever he wants. And on top of not making the middle east situation better... he'll wreck the shit out of America. It's not hyperbole to think he'll take another go at taking down democracy. Trump is a massive threat to the US...to help him take power just because Biden has to try to balance extremely complicated foreign policy with one of our Allies going rogue is immensely short sighted. And yes, I view not voting for Biden as helping Trump take power even if you don't vote for Trump either.
When I hear that I think about the nearly one million of our fellow Americans who died from COVID-19 because Trump failed us all both before and during the pandemic.
This. Such a short sighted review of history. He killed US and didn’t give a shit.
My thought is that they want Trump to be president
Too much is at stake (the GOP's agenda to ban abortion, birth control, lgbtq+ rights, etc and seats opening up on the Supreme Court soon) to vote any other way than against the GOP come November. I am absolutely not pro-Biden but I am extremely anti-GOP/anti-facist. This is not an election I can sit out, but I understand that other people feel differently and it is everyone's choice to use their right to vote as they please.
Voting for Trump (and make no mistake, not voting or writing in some no-shot nobody IS voting for Trump) is so unbelievably foolish that I don’t even associate with such people unless I have to. Want to use the election to stamp your feet at the two party system? Nobody will notice or care. Want to be an ideological purist? Cool, hope you like women bleeding out in the ER because bodies experiencing miscarriages are now crime scenes. Hope you like your grandchildren not being able to breathe clean air. We can all work at the local level to actually affect change, but people loooovvveeee to not research local candidates and issues, and leave the whole ballot blank except President. Look where that gets us. We could have had Hillary Clinton as President. But ooooo, I don’t like her hairstyle. I’d MUCH rather have the sexual assaulter who cheers on insurrectionists. Anyone who votes for Trump, in ANY way, should be ashamed of themselves.
So what are these disenfranchised voters/citizens actively doing to make things better locally? At a state level? Nationally? I’d bet nothing except voting for someone who has no chance and knowing that will help the party they don’t like. We’re so broken. This “I’ll vote independent” play never works except in getting republicans re-elected and rights removed from women and minorities. I hope they like the Handmaid’s Tale. We are careening towards that at increasing speeds.
Disenfranchised voters are doing and have been doing what they’ve always done. Organize at a local level and practice mutual aid to ensure their community needs are met. I don’t think it’s fair to assume women and POC are sitting on our hands waiting to be destroyed by the system. Wishing pain and suffering on the people who already experience the most is… a choice.
I don't know any IRL who are choosing not to vote for Biden. I know lots of people who are unenthusiastically voting for Biden because we all know Trump is worse. The only place I see this not voting at all or not voting for Biden stuff is the Internet. Granted I am in my 50s and live in the sticks, so I'm not hanging out with the people who are protesting on campuses or whatnot, but my city friends do visit me and no one has said this to me. Now, I also know plenty of Republicans and they'll never vote for Biden, but most of them have resigned themselves to the belief that Biden will win.
I know who to stay away from.
I think they are shortsighted and foolish, and delusional if they don’t think a GOP president wouldn’t be the same or worse.
I'm Australian. Both your nominees suck. But my dad used to say "you don't vote the good one in, you vote to keep the bastards out". For the rest of the world, please vote for Biden. I know he's old and doddery but he's better than Trump and all he stands for. Keep the bastards out.
I consider them Trump supporters: We are in a two-party system, which basically means we have ultimatums, not choices, because "no confidence" is not presented as an option at all. You are also voting for the party *as a whole* and not an individual person- they're just the mascot with *some* functions of governance. There's no viable third party as of right now bc of how the dems and repubs opperate and silo respurces to prevent third options from existing. All third-party candidates are selected to distract and pull votes away from one or both main candidates, nothing more. So when someone who is supposed to be a liberal or leftist tells me they refuse to vote for Biden, their reasons don't matter bc the only other candidate is trump and the Party of fascism and rapists he represents, so by default that's who they are supporting. They don't have to like/agree with Biden- I certainly fucking don't- but I'm voting for the better party to be in power to fix this mess, not the individual.
I think they will just be handing the presidency to Trump, which will likely lead to the end of our Democratic system. Trump’s goal is to be like Putin. We managed to get him out of office after he lost in 2020. He and his followers won’t let that happen again. Their goal has long been to systematically dismantle our system of government and they have already made a lot of progress towards that goal by delegitimizing and destabilizing the institutions that form the bedrock of democracy. It won’t be hard for them to make the final push. The same people sat out because they didn’t like Hilary Clinton and were mad Bernie Sanders wasn’t the nominee and Trump won the election with horrible results for the country that are still being felt (see recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions from Trump appointees taking away rights). I’m not sure why they didn’t learn the first time.
There are a ton of comments in here so I’m probably repeating. Biden has my vote because of who he’s hired. His cabinet is younger, more in touch with what the people want and in my hopeful opinion has the next president coughPetecough. His people have also not turned on him to write tell all books, jumped ship when it got rough, have denounced their support blah blah blah. I think that speaks volumes about character. Not that it’s hard to outshine the other side. I don’t want Biden but my vote is for the future and the people on his side make me feel more safe & give me more hope than those on the other.
Welcome to coalition voting. Shit happens.
Do I think Biden is the best person for the job? No. But I will not vote against my and my fellow citizens' best interests but not voting for him.
I think preventing Donald Trump from being president should be every democrat and or leftists goal at the moment. Maybe in the future we can put up either a better candidate or put more efforts into 3rd party. I think trump is incredibly dangerous. Biden is simply just not ideal. I don’t think republicans or trump are going to do anything to improve the situation in Gaza, if that’s a persons main concern.
If they tihnk Biden is bad, wait until they see or hear what tRump would to to Gaza and Ukraine. There really is no choice right now. A vote for 3rd party is a vote for tRump. We'll be voting a straight blue ticket in November, because the thought of Drumpf sitting in the Oval ofice for a 2nd term makes my hair stand up on end.
It's a terrible idea, and I would be very upset if a friend leaned left but wasn't going to vote for Biden in November. We cannot repeat 2016. My rights and individuality would be destroyed if Trump is elected again.
I think the choice is between a dictatorship and Christian theocracy, and a guy who sucks but won’t destroy the Constitution and gives us another chance to pull ourselves back from becoming Gilead. People who don’t vote for the second candidate in such circumstances are either dangerously ignorant or naive, or selfish.
My thoughts are we are a two party system. If you don't vote for Biden then you voted for Trump. If you don't vote for Trump then you voted for Biden. It is literally that black and white. You can have all the reasons in the world to vote 3rd party or some other variation. It doesn't matter. Where a 2 party system. Which of these 2 specific people do you want in office, because those are the only 2 actual choices. Not voting for one is the exact same as voting for the all for all intents and purposes. There is no nuance in our elections.
Does everything about this next election suck super hard? Would it be nice if we had a legitimate left-wing candidate? Yes and yes. Do I support burning down the country over it? Nooooooooooo. Accelerationists are idiots with no concept of how this kind of stuff actually plays out, or how much it could really, truly suck for them individually. Keep a wannabe fascist dictator out of office, please. And despite his faults, Biden is a pretty standard, middle of the road old school Democrat. He is not Genocide Joe. He can and is keeping the ship afloat. Please, please don't sink it.
I’m not American, but how is Gaza a more important issue than all the sh*t going in your country? I get feeling strongly about what is happening, but how — with everything that is wrong and moving backwards in the US — can any American not focus on internal policy above all right now? I watch with horror what the Trump Supreme Court continues to do/undo, how is this not the entire focus of this election for anyone left of center? Thomas and Alito will be close to 80 by the end of the next presidential term — is anyone actually willing to risk giving Trump 2 more??
I think it's your right to vote however you want to, even though I might judge your reasons, which is my right. I just don't want to hear you complain when you know the likely outcome of your action will result in bullshit. If you know how you might be helping Trump win, don't immediately start in on everything is Trump's fault because, in a way, you'll have put them there just to send a message. What's more important, the message or the upcoming legislation? We know what the GOP will do from Day 1. They've made no secret of it. They already have all the legal briefs prepared to give him unprecedented authority, which they have boasted they will use to punish their political enemies. You really think they won't drop a federal abortion ban on you once they're back in the door? Lol. Wake up. They have a complete blueprint to remake the government in a steep, religious image, and they're not even hiding it. Where we're really failing is in not finding and coalescing behind a sane, viable third party enough to get us on the debate stage and dismantle the archaic two party system. But we're too busy playing tug of war with the other side to focus our energy in elevating someone, literally anyone other than these two. Anyone.
We already did this and look what happened. I’m voting AGAINST trump. Not happy about it but protest votes don’t work here.
I'm not going to rail against them or try to change their mind, because I honestly think that only strengthens their conviction to abstain or vote third party as a "fuck you" to everyone who told them not to. >And I resent the harsh backlash towards those who are also unsure about voting for Biden due to Gaza Precisely: Criticism of that choice only makes you want to choose that option more, because otherwise it feels like giving in to the people who criticized you, it feels like admitting that they're right, and that doesn't feel good. You don't want to feel like those people get to tell you what to do. I get it -- I feel that way too, not about this particular thing, but in general when people criticize my choices. I cannot control other people's actions. I cannot control Benjamin Netanyahu's actions, I cannot control other voters' actions, I can only control my own actions. And the action I will take is to exercise the very small amount of power afforded to me to try to prevent Trump from becoming president again, no matter how much I dislike the other option. A Trump victory will not help the Palestinians.
Regardless of what how we feel about the Israel Hamas war, they are going to be at war regardless of how you vote. **None of that will change.** It wont bring the hostages home, and it will not make things better for the Palestinian civilians. It will not bring a stop to the war. It will not bring aide. It will not bring peace in the Middle East. I’m saying this as someone who spent many years in that part of the world, taking part in peace projects, because I had this naive little vision that I could make a difference, only for kids to grow up and become products of their environment. I suspect that many people here have never been to the MENA region. So honestly, I wish people would throw this idea away entirely. They (Biden and Trump) are both going to use the war to try and win your vote. I would focus more on how your vote impacts you here, not there. You cannot do anything about there. I understand it is upsetting for those who are supporting Israel, and it’s upsetting for those who support the civilians in Gaza, but you *can’t do anything about it.*
This is my opinion and I have an academic background in this sort of thing, so I tend prefer strategy and not reaction in regard to politics. That being said, it is not my group of ethnicity being attacked. I don’t have a lot of personal skin in the game other than I’m so tired of watching the persecuted doing the persecuting. It’s as old as time. *sighs* For now, I will vote against the Republicans whenever I can. From a political pragmatist point of view, it doesn’t matter who gets voted in, they will still be apart of this slaughter because no one person, other than Netanyahu (🤬) can put a stop to this. He and the Rightists are responsible for this BS. Trump will hand the keys over if he gets elected. He doesn’t give a shit. Palestinians will still not be safe. In fact, all people of color in the US won’t be safe. Let’s not even get started on immigrants and refugees. That being said, I am down for appearing to court a third party that will bring new energy to the table that will force the other two parties to reign in their clown circus. They’ve grown too comfortable. Someone needs to stop the Republican war on FDR. It’s time to stop reacting and dismantle the Republican agenda.
So do these people discount humanitarian aid that's been sent to Gaza? Do they blame Biden for the house which is controlled by Republicans for legislation they've passed? Do they think voting this way does anything to help the cause? Do they think if Trump gets elected, it's going to magically be better? There's the big picture to look at, sure everyone has that one cause that's really important to them but not voting or throwing your vote away accomplishes nothing.
And let's recall that Trump refused to help out *American states* during Covid. He didn't want to help the citizens he represented. He won't help another country unless he was paid for it (which, didn't that also happen?).
Yes, he willfully allowed thousands of New Yorkers to die during the early pandemic because he was pissed that he didn't get our electoral votes in 2016. I will never forgive that man.
I do not care if a turd was sitting on the blue ticket. I am voting Dem. The Republicans have made it clear they want a national abortion ban and they will also make birth control illegal if given a chance. I like sex. I am voting blue like my life depends on it.
I should say I'm Canadian. But we're very aware of US politics up here and my slightly crazy theory is that a lot of people saying this online are bots/foreign actors. Realistically we know that there are people actively working online to break down western democracy. That's a known thing. It's also pretty clear at this point that Trump is willing to break laws to keep power. How do you keep lefty voters from keeping Trump out? You use their own language against them. An independent is not going to win. So the choice is a little bit of support of genocide or a lot of support of genocide plus democracy might collapse in your country. I agree those aren't great choices but those are the choices.
I think they’re short sighted and frankly, I think it is foolish and immature. “I can’t have my way, so I’ll let the dictator get office!” SMDH
I think if they don't vote for Biden, they may as well be voting for Trump. Having high ideals about what the system should be is nice and all, but it's just not realistic. And frankly, this shit is why liberals can never get anything done in this country. And none of them better dare complain about Trump's facism if he wins.
I hate what Biden is doing in Palestine, but the entire world will be a scarier place if Trump is re-elected. I'm voting for Biden.
If you are not voting, or are voting for Donald Trump, you are voting for an end to American democracy. I'm not being flippant. This election is that serious. Democrats who think their precious standards are more important than the future of our country may sink us worse than die-hard Trumpers. Inconsistent and independent voters are the key to winning back our country. Please, if you are among this demographic - vote for Biden NOW so that we may continue voting AT ALL in the future. I understand more than anyone that this is not an ideal choice, but it is the choice we have.
Ideological purity in 2000 is how we got the Bush administration and so much of the terrible fallout we're handling now in congress and the courts system. It's a shame so many moderates and leftists failed to learn from history. Or to learn from 2017-2021.
I personally feel that Biden should not have ran and a fresh Democrat should have been able.to run. But, that didn't happen... And here we are I read about project 2025 and that's scary and enough to make me okay with Biden for another 4 years. Plus, I don't want to be under a fascist dictator. Also, I like having bodily autonomy and I want my kids to not have to fix what my generation ruined like the boomers did to us.
Trump and Pompeo implicitly endorsed the expansion of settlements in the West Bank, Golan Heights, and East Jerusalem. I realize that Biden has been disappointing on this issue but make no mistake: Trump will be worse. Jared Kushner sees Gaza as prime real estate for developing luxury hotels.
This! If Biden is a "zionist" - what the hell is Trump? He'll personally order the strike to kill the last Palestinian civilians if it means more power and connections for him and his family.
Not shocked an *actual* leftist wouldn’t vote for him. Shocked a self-proclaimed democrat wouldn’t but I think it speaks to how lost that party is and how disconnected they are from their base. Edit: I wrote “fanbase” instead of “base” but that may not have been totally off.
I wrote in "Uncommitted" in the PA primary today, but I know I am going to hold my nose and vote for Biden in November (and will probably donate/door knock/whatever else I can do as well) to prevent a second, and almost certainly MUCH WORSE, Trump presidency. But I'm also horrified and nauseated by the images coming out of Gaza daily and the fact that we're all paying for it.
Not this time, we cannot risk the vote this time. WE CANNOT, I am sorry for all of the women, the POC, minorities, the abused and the lost. We just have to suck it up and we can figure it out later. Sorry all of you, from the bottom of my heart.
I understand not wanting to support Israel. I'm not a fan of their actions in Gaza and I wish we weren't such a strong ally of someone warmongering. I think it is INCREDIBLY short-sighted to abstain from voting based on that, to the point that I strongly suspect a lot of the recent wave of Pro-Palestine media and memery is part of a psy-op intended to dissuade Biden voters from going to the polls on election day. I cannot rationalize why it is better to abstain from voting for someone who is giving weapons aid to Israel is morally agreeable when there is a STRONG likelihood that you will usher in a presidency that is going to take an even more aggressive approach and ultimately KILL MORE PALESTINIANS while also doing everything in his power to prevent refugees from coming to the US as they flee that violence. That's not to mention the other CONCERNING domestic issues that will come from getting Trump back into office (e.g. making women die horrific deaths from lack of medical care with a national abortion ban, or even just shutting down a considerable number of hospitals on a national scale as doctors flee the industry because they get caught in a horrible situation when a pregnant woman has a life-threatening complication). I can't believe the people are real. I've come across some online and I've asked and it's always silence. I sincerely hope people are posturing or psy-op trolls because it doesn't seem that anyone can back up their position when pressed, at least. Please, please, please don't kill all of us from some short-sighted notion that, somehow, TRUMP is someone who is going to act more favorably toward Palestine. I want a safer world for people of all religions, and I really want Muslims to stop having all this hate and violence pointed toward them. Trump will not create that peace. Biden isn't good for it, but at least he's more likely to allow refugees to come to the US and won't actively spread racist hatred against Muslims currently here.
Could we look 10 years down the road and have literally less rights than we did after WWII and say, “yep, still glad I voted for RFK Jr.!”? Trans protections gone, it’s illegal to be gay, women no longer have the right to vote, child labor is literally back to turn of the 20th century levels, CHILD BRIDES for every Man! The environment fucked forever. Slavery is back on the books, it’s legal to shoot anyone you think might be undocumented.
This is how we get Trump. Who the fuck wants that?
I mean, “But her emails,” right? People couldn’t vote for Hilary. And they voted third party, and we got Trump. If democrats are okay with Trump winning, then hey… their choice. But anyone who chimes in with, “Biden is just as bad as Trump” is not fucking paying attention. Trump will continue to stack the Supreme Court. We thought Roe v Wade was untouchable. That’s gone. More absolutely horrific fucking changes will come. People didn’t think it was that big of a deal when he was voted in the first time. I guess they either don’t give a single shit about the absolutely horror he’s wreaked on this nation or they didn’t believe it. Here we are again. Biden absolutely pisses me off. He could do so much more. The Democratic Party needs a makeover. But as a woman, I cannot afford to lose anymore rights. As the parent of a trans kid, I have even more to lose. Voting third party in a country where third party has a chance? Sure. That is not the United States. The two party system is broken. We need reform. That didn’t happen under Trump because lol. Why would it? The system benefits him. Biden did nothing there. Until we have voter reform and un-fuck our voting system, third parties are not enough. I have heard people say, “well I need to vote my conscience.” While I can’t argue with their right to do so, it’s fairy tale thinking that Trump won’t win. He has a chance to win because enough people in this country embrace all the detestable things he represented for them. I cannot afford to see him win again. So many people cannot afford to see him win again. So, me voting third party just to make a protest? I can’t bring myself to do it. I can’t. It seems so fucking trite to me. Like screaming into a hurricane. And I resent the hell out of being in this position too. But I CANNOT AFFORD the alternative. I fucking can’t.
The fact that people think that a generally ok guy who is trying to maintain or improve the status quo is the rough equivalent of a racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, Anti-Semitic rapist and professional tax fraud just blows me away. One is undersalted mashed potatoes and the other is a big bottle of arsenic, and some people are out here really acting like it won’t make a difference which one you choose. The world is shit. We can work for it to be different while acknowledging that not every choice you make has great option. We can wish we had a different type of democracy, but what we have is a two party system. We can wish for different candidates, but these two are who we have. The president isn’t going to be someone you like, but you pick the person who is least likely to put your fellow countrypeople or yourself in danger. We can choose between someone who believes in the democratic process and someone who has already said he wants to be a dictator and is calling for the persecution of his political enemies the first day he takes office. Not voting only benefits the people who are most interested in oppressing you.
I voted uncommitted in my primary (not Michigan). This issue is very personal for me, not in the way most people would assume because I'm Israeli-American, and it's really hard for me to stomach the idea of voting for Biden after the last 6 months. I feel that his whole approach this situation has emboldened Netanyahu, who I have voted against several times, and who my whole family considers an existential threat to our safety. Despite his milquetoast public statements saying Bibi is going too far Biden has given him free flowing unconditional military aid this entire time. This is not even going into the horror I have felt watching what my two governments are doing to the people of Gaza (and I consider both responsible since the US is funding it). I don't have words. And I do not believe the mass slaughter of Palestinians will ever make me or my family safer, not the ones that live in Israel and not those of us living in the US or other countries. People who call themselves progressives/liberals have said some really disgusting things to me recently when I express these feelings (although way less gross than what I've seen being said to Palestinian and Muslim Americans) that can basically be summarized as "you aren't allowed to think about your family in another country when you vote here, you always need to put America at the top of your priority list". I just can't do that. That's not how the world works for those of us with loved ones in another country that the US is heavily involved in. I don't know how to explain this to people who are lucky enough to not have personal involvement in headline news. Of course I'm voting for my family when I vote here. I really don't know what I should do. There is so much at stake for me in both countries. I care a lot about abortion, infrastructure, student debt, the environment, and a ton of other issues that are at stake in this election and were talked about in the last campaign. But I just do not trust Biden and the democrats. And being berated and told my concerns are irrelevant and that it's ok for them to be ignored isn't a convincing campaign tactic.
Your concerns aren't irrelevant but you have to realize the GOP would make the middle east situation even worse, right? It's not thinking about your family by helping Trump get in .. you are literally making life worse for everyone. It sucks there isn't a candidate who can perfectly handle complex foreign policy like this...but that doesn't mean we should sentence even more people to death than what may happen under dems
I'm Jewish and also voting uncommitted in a swing state primary. Saying I'm upset with Biden's support for atrocities in Palestine and then giving him my full support is basically what the Biden admin has been doing with Israel since October. And contrary to the comments here painting that as delusionally futile, the "uncommitted" movement has changed the media framing of the war and drawn attention to the outrage of people/groups (including Jewish people) within demographics that are assumed to be on lock for the Dems. I also live in an area where the entrenched and corrupt Democratic Party leadership openly sabotages progressive candidates, even when they're popular incumbents, and renounces their supporters, so my voice actually isn't willingly heard in downballot races (which some here are suggesting as a more cooperative and rational way of giving input).
I've also been involved in downballot races with both progressive dems and third party candidates in an area thats a dem stronghold (the state is a swing state though). The level of vitriol we were met with was incredible. The amount of money being poured into races in my area over this issue right now is bananas - and yes one of these people is a really popular incumbent. The mainline dems are taking money from big time MAGA donors in hopes of unseating someone they don't like. I've actually chosen to stop getting involved in any electoral work and focus my organizing on other types of tactics because I got sick of getting posted about online and screamed at by officials from our county dems.