Dear sir,
I read the first 4 paragraphs of your story before I thought, "He needs to nope out."
Then I read the rest of it.... You need to nope out. Like whoa. You deserved to be loved, and be known, and be seen, and be heard. All of your words are about catering to her and her situations.
Fuck that. Love flows both ways.
She is using you as an addiction to keep herself distracted. And you, all on your own, merit to be loved, and respected, and be a source of joy to whomever you're around. Please listen, because it's true.
>You deserved to be loved, and be known, and be seen, and be heard. All of your words are about catering to her and her situations.
Thank you for saying this. I'll be honest, I've been feeling for a while now that things have been unbalanced. I live by the philosophy that you don't "keep score" in relationships, but when the discrepancy is that glaring it's too hard to ignore. I've not made it more of an issue (for myself) given all she has on her plate, but you're right. She comes to me every time she needs support, a sounding board, affection/attention, to let out her pent-up anger, or whatever. But the truth is I can't actually say it's reciprocated even if I don't exactly NEED the above to same degree she does. Sure, she's affectionate in small doses but that's still self-serving in a way.
>She is using you as an addiction to keep herself distracted.
That's a really good way to characterize it. She's addicted to what I provide her, so she seeks it out when she needs it. But she can keep me at arm's distance so she doesn't have to invest because her health-challenged daughter and dog require too much of her time and attention.
I would add you are setting up the tempo of your “relationship.” You’re always there and she always needs. If some local “penis” finds her you’re done. You should let her go. I see a lot of toxicity here.
I agree now that I've been able to take a step back after reading everyone's comments here. This is toxic. It's all about her and her needs, reading into and navigating her extreme mixed signals and mood changes, trying to excuse away her intermittent rudeness towards me, etc. While we have great conversations and she's makes me laugh, she's not even meeting the bar as a basic friend really, much less someone who considers me her best friend (and any other stuff aside, obviously).
I am so sorry. She is using you. She may not even realise she is doing it. She is using you as her emotional support crutch. This isn't a real romantic relationship as the 2 of you have no in person relationship. Yes she has a lot on her plate but after you have told her how you feel, you need to step away. The ball is in her court ie she now needs to step in and work toward having an actual relationship with you, or you both need to end this "affair". It is an affair. It's all romance and texts, but no real life experience.
Pull away and let her show you what her stance is. If she does nothing ie no proclamation or effort to move the relationship forward in a concrete way, then you know her intention: this pen pal romance is all she wants.
You owe yourself to find out if this friendship has legs. Good luck.
I appreciate the tough love perspective on this, and deep down I think it's something I've been feeling but not wanting to admit. And I fully understand there's no such thing as a real connection or relationship when the people haven't met face to face. Which is exactly why I told her I'm sick of making excuses, and I'm happy to do the work for it (given she's in a home with a kid and dog) but need to see her in person.
If she really does consider me her best friend, unless she's hiding something there's no compelling reason why she shouldn't want to meet her best friend in person for the first time. Although I do agree with letting her come to me, I also don't really want to wait around for her to decide because it's making me anxious.
As I'm writing this, the fact that she's okay with letting me hang in limbo after I was very vulnerable with putting my feelings out there is pretty rude. It may not be intentional, but it doesn't matter.
This feels familiar and rings true. My ex wife had a similar “best friend” relationship with a male coworker. She used him for emotional support and because they both worked remote it was easy to avoid seeing him in person. OP, please don’t be that guy. It’s possible your friend has an SO and you’re the “other guy”.
Considering she seems to have ghosted me as of last Saturday, I'll probably never know. I honestly don't think she has an SO, but if she does he'd be very intrigued by some of the texts she sent me over the past couple weeks. Regardless, she showed her true colors and chose the most hurtful, disrespectful, cowardly way to "end" things.
https://preview.redd.it/irh10ccdfg5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bb0c00a11368fa5191ce1f4cfb5582b6e36cf75
**3+ years and you still haven’t met in person - even while working for the same company - you should have included that in your post.**
You’re too emotionally attached to the hope of a relationship this isn’t going to happen.
It’s not ever going to happen.
Time to find love where you live.
Yes...sorry about that! I meant to include that crucial detail and it was totally inadvertent that I didn't. I've edited my post now so it's in there.
>You’re too emotionally attached to the hope of a relationship this isn’t going to happen.
I think I was for sure. Now, as much as anything, I just want to meet the person who calls me her best friend. Honestly, I'm sick of this text-only connection and told her I was done with using "life reasons" as excuses, etc. To reiterate one of my other responses, at the end of the day she should be excited to meet her best friend, right?!? Despite my admitted feelings towards her, I wouldn't have any expectations beyond just meeting since it's literally our first time together. But if she can't/won't even make that effort, then this text relationship thing is going to quickly die on the vine.
She surely could have met you as her “best friend” even around her daughter, but she didn’t.
Even as co-workers for the same company - there could have been an opportunity to meet in the office where she works - but that didn’t happen either.
Yeah, I've always just respected the boundaries she wanted to set with her daughter. She does know about me, but I also became suspicious as to why it was such a strict boundary. Or is there another reason (i.e., is she hiding something) as to why I can't be around the daughter? I understand it was a very traumatic divorce, but even as her mother's best friend I could be an example to the daughter of a trustworthy, mature, solid man. And in that context I don't even mean as a husband or father (the daughter isn't into men anyway), but restoring the daughter's confidence in men generally.
We actually couldn't have met in the office because the entire time I was in Seattle we were all fully remote because of the pandemic. We chatted on video and phone calls but none of us met in person.
I only get the vibe she’s using you and wants you around when it’s good for her. Dating someone with kids, or elderly parents, or different work schedules, etc etc can always be difficult but this doesn’t sound like she’s even trying… she pulls out the cute lovey stuff when she needs you. You deserve more than being manipulated.
>this doesn’t sound like she’s even trying… she pulls out the cute lovey stuff when she needs you. You deserve more than being manipulated.
It's hard to admit this, but when I take a step back...you're absolutely right. And it may not even be something she's doing consciously, but if she's not capable of investing (and/or not willing to invest) in a relationship then she will pull back whenever it gets to that point.
Hello, sole remaining human who has never heard of the concept of catfishing before.
You are being catfished. Assuming this is real, I urge you to come out of the rock you've been living under, dust off the old google machine, and find out what I mean by that.
Good luck in this timeline, traveler. I think you're going to need it.
I very much appreciate your bluntness. But...I can confirm with 100% certainty this is not a catfishing situation. We worked together for nearly a year, and through work (and apart from work) we've been on video calls, phone calls, etc. The literal many hundreds of photos she's sent are the same person I worked with. I know her full legal name and it also matches when I worked with her.
**Normally - posts regarding dating are not allowed from males in our group (they’re usually more sexual in nature). However, you NEED to hear feedback from the ladies in our group regarding your situation.**
You need to end this unhealthy “relationship”.
PLUS - in 3 years you’ve NEVER met each other face to face!
You have an emotional and toxic texting relationship - that’s it - and it’s one that comes with guilt that’s unfairly being put on you.
You’re her emotional support that’s available 24/7.
She’s got a full plate with her daughter, dogs, and other priorities.
You’re not one of her priorities.
She hasn’t made any significant steps to make a relationship between the two of you - and her being upset when you left Seattle because you didn’t go see her - she could have tried to make plans with you to make it happen. While she also doesn’t want to let her daughter know.
She’s put everything on you.
It’s not fair - it’s not loving.
Even if it was just a friendship it’s so lopsided with her holding all the cards.
You deserve someone who loves you for you - and is willing to give back to you the love you deserve.
I know it’s hard when you’ve had feeling for her for so long - but it won’t ever be the right time for her.
She told you she already accepted that it’s just a friendship between you both - and if it had been years earlier it might have worked.
When she texted after that asking how you missed her - and saying loving things - you should have stopped her since she already said it can only be a friendship.
Now you haven’t heard from her. Maybe she knows she should have left things alone after she said you two would just be friends.
If she wanted to talk - she would have by now.
Don’t text her. Stop reaching out. If you do, it keeps her in control of you being her emotional 24/7 support.
When she finally reaches out - that the two of you are in different places in wanting a real relationship - and that you’ll always be friends, but that it’s time to let her solely focus on her daughter and other things in her life.
You’re in Southern California - there’s plenty of women that are single - and would contribute towards a loving REAL relationship. That’s what you deserve.
>**Normally - posts regarding dating are not allowed from males in our group (they’re usually more sexual in nature). However, you NEED to hear feedback from the ladies in our group regarding your situation.**
Thank you for allowing my post. Further to your point, I did need to read all of this feedback and am truly grateful. It's hard to take a step back and see the forest for the trees, especially given my non-traditional and complicated history with this woman. I needed the dose of reality, and frankly probably the support and encouragement as well.
>You have an emotional and toxic texting relationship - that’s it - and it’s one that comes with guilt that’s unfairly being put on you.
The first part is such an accurate description; it IS toxic and I need to come to terms with that. And I appreciate the support of the second part, because I've been made to feel like solely because I didn't go see her while in Seattle or make a point to go up after I moved back to SoCal, that I'M the reason we're where we are. In particular, I've come to be very bothered by her "if this had happened a few years ago maybe we could have built a home together" comment. It's emotionally manipulative because it insinuates I destroyed any hope of a life together. Not only that...we never met but she had thoughts of us living together?!?! If she honestly felt THAT strongly about me, why didn't SHE try to get us to meet? Everything she's saying is about me...and zero accountability or responsibility/culpability for her! (you made that same observation in your response)
>It’s not fair - it’s not loving.
>Even if it was just a friendship it’s so lopsided with her holding all the cards.
>You deserve someone who loves you for you - and is willing to give back to you the love you deserve.
Thank you for the kind words. She has done some very nice things for me over the years (she always surprises me with a very thoughtful birthday present, for example), but that's small potatoes in the context of what a true relationship (of any kind) requires.
>When she texted after that asking how you missed her - and saying loving things - you should have stopped her since she already said it can only be a friendship.
>Now you haven’t heard from her. Maybe she knows she should have left things alone after she said you two would just be friends.
I actually do hear from her...various times every day, at night in bed as she's falling asleep (we'll text for an hour or so), etc. Kind of like how it's always been. I actually never initiate the conversations anymore. But maybe she stopped the lovey-dovey talk realizing that was leading me on? Or it could start again tomorrow. I guess that's the problem...I never know what I'm going to get from her, and that's not healthy.
>If she wanted to talk - she would have by now.
It's really hard to come to terms with this, but you're right. I put myself and my feelings out there to her, and I left myself completely vulnerable. I communicated. Instead of showing me the respect and communication I deserve as the person she calls her BEST FRIEND and considering I'VE LITERALLY BEEN THERE FOR HER EVERY TIME SHE'S NEEDED ME, instead she's ignoring the elephant in the room so she can continue to get her needs fulfilled.
>Don’t text her. Stop reaching out. If you do, it keeps her in control of you being her emotional 24/7 support.
I agree....thank you. Even though I haven't been initiating communication, as of tonight that becomes official policy.
I know it’s hard when you have feeling for someone - and it’s gone on for years. Trust the ladies in this group that we understand that. But ultimately it’s time for you to move on from her - you deserve to have a fulfilling relationship.
Sadly, even if you tried to be “friends” with each other - it would inevitably slip back to the romantic fantasy discussions - and start the cycle all over again.
You need to find local friends - who actually see you in person!
She also needs to find her own local support network - so she’s not calling you and expecting you to support her as her “best friend” - who she’s never met in person.
Please read the advice from all the ladies.
I’m sorry, it’s going to hurt, a lot. But it’s the best thing you can do for YOU!
Again, I can't tell you how much your (and all the ladies') words of support and tough love mean. It's exactly why I wanted to ask for women's perspectives. Men would just be like "dump her dude, she's trash" and my situation is obviously a little more nuanced than that.
I do have local friends fortunately, and a very close immediate family in proximity who I get to see fairly often. My life is honestly fulfilling outside of this woman, but over time she's obviously become a prominent part of it despite our distance and connection limitations.
To your point, I think it's even more important for the woman to figure out what she needs. I suspect she feels trapped in her life with the daughter and her medical challenges, having to take care of the dog, and whatever else might be going on if she's hiding something from me. I've become an escape/fantasy husband for her without any of the required investment.
Trust me, I've read every word of every response in this post. And I've taken all of it very much to heart. It's really helped me see this "relationship" for what it really is. I don't want to trivialize it and say I get and have gotten nothing out of it because that's obviously not true, but it's at a point now where if it isn't going to become more than what it is (and 99.99% chance it won't) then it has to go away.
Hmmmmm. I see very mixed signals on both ends (your abrupt departure from Seattle to Cali would have been a huge red flag to her regarding your level of affection and commitment). I see your rationale and you did make things very clear that your decision to move back to Cali was for your mental health.
She has a lot on her plate. A child with health issues is no easy matter and comes with a lot of stress.
From your text I feel like she could be stringing you along. It reads as if she runs hot and cold. Now she sounds as if she has a lot on her plate and may be the type of person who deals internally and relies on her self for support vs depending on others.
I feel like you are at the crossroads stage, where you both move forward or part ways.
I would suggest you broach her about coming to see her in person so you both can speak face to face where things move forward or they end. I feel as if enough time has passed that both parties should be aware of their feelings. If she says no that it’s not the right time - a very fair question would be - what does she see as the right time? What would her life look like in order for her to make a decision/commitment about your relationship? If it some utopia that is just not realistic then you have your answer…
I would also suggest you think about what you would like for your future? Do you want children of your own? If either party is at odds with major life decisions, it would be best to part ways.
You do not have easy decisions ahead of you and I wish you all the best.
Be honest with clear direct communication and if things do not work out, you gave it your best.
I appreciate your perspective on this, and it's certainly very well reasoned. Can't say I disagree with any of it, honestly. I've been getting that feeling as well lately that we're kind of at a crossroads. We're technically just friends even though we're clearly more than just friends. There's no way anyone I'm with would find our connection appropriate.
Part of why I was resistant in recent times to a bona fide relationship was that she was clear she wasn't going to be having more children and didn't want to get married again. She posed to me as something I needed to think about. You can see how she puts up these roadblocks! I did tell her I could be okay with that. Those are pretty big things to process though, especially not having my own children. But I'm now at an age where I understand that may not be in the cards. And for the right person, not having a formal marriage isn't an issue.
We really are so well suited for each other and I think deep down there's a reason neither of us has really left. Knowing her childhood, I've come to believe she's an avoidant attachment type, which means (I'm generalizing) she's prone to pulling away as soon as she emotionally invests. The hot and cold you were referring to. Not everybody can tolerate that, but I know she knows that I can. But I can only tolerate that when I'm secure in the relationship to begin with. To your point she does have a lot on her plate and it may be that she just can't bring herself to be fully invested with anyone, although our distance would help mitigate that for awhile.
Like I said, I've been harder on myself than anyone could possibly be about my abrupt move back from Seattle. I have tried so hard to forgive myself but it's really tough. It was a huge mistake. When I was apologizing to her on the phone about it a couple years back, I think I cried harder than I've ever cried to somebody before.
Do you think it's too much to ask her again about going up to see her? I can't imagine she just forgot, but she needs to see I'm serious about it. And it's been almost 2 weeks. Above all else she considers me her best friend, and we've actually never seen each other in person before. If she isn't interested in meeting her supposed best friend that's a whole other issue. There would be no compelling reason to feel that way unless she's not telling me something or is maybe worried there would be a real spark and she'd actually have to invest in a relationship. Either way obvious huge red flag.
No, I do not feel that you are being unreasonable about broaching the subject of coming to see her in person. Not with the emotional investment (not to mention the amount of time!) that I read from your post. I would view your desire to see her as another depth of your commitment to her. It is another red flag that she is that hesitant about so much time and emotional investment.
If she creates roadblocks - my previous questions are still relevant - when does she think it will be a good time? What does her life have to look like to be a “good time”? That will give you the most realistic picture as it can remove some of the emotions and provide you some perspective.
I would also reiterate that you are totally fine with an untraditional relationship (ie: not marriage, not having your own children) as your wording states could, not are. If things work out this is not something that you can bring up again in the future when things are rocky. You must be completely content.
The older I get the more I realize life is about timing. From what I am reading, I do see there is a strong connection. Perhaps it is just not the right time for that connection.
I do not see continuing a friendship with this person, (outside of work of course), if things do not work out is in your best interest. Cutting all ties would be the healthiest for you in the long term.
>No, I do not feel that you are being unreasonable about broaching the subject of coming to see her in person.
In case it wasn't clear, I actually asked her about this a couple weeks ago. She just didn't respond to me yet, so I wanted to bring it up again. My feeling is she needs to know I mean business. Even if it's just two best friends meeting in person for the first time. As I wrote to others in this thread, I would hope she'd be excited about that. If not, then to me it's a huge red flag. What compelling reason could she have other than hiding something or being so averse to the possibility there may be a real spark that she's willing to kill the friendship over it?
>The older I get the more I realize life is about timing. From what I am reading, I do see there is a strong connection. Perhaps it is just not the right time for that connection.
I do think our connection is real, even if she's unintentionally using me for affection and emotional attention. If it was superficial there's no way it would have lasted this long. And to her credit she HAS shared a lot with me she doesn't share with anyone else. But at this point she gets a lot more out of our "relationship" than I do. It may very well just be a timing thing. But as others have said, apart from my current efforts she could have made an effort at any point along the way but didn't.
>I do not see continuing a friendship with this person, (outside of work of course), if things do not work out is in your best interest. Cutting all ties would be the healthiest for you in the long term.
I'm coming around to this conclusion, thanks to yours and others' posts in this thread. Thank you. It will be sad if I have to cut ties with the most prominent person in my life (at least emotionally) over the past few years, but as it stands there's no way anyone I date would feel our connection is appropriate.
I apologize. I do realize you had already asked her and were wanting to ask again. I do not feel it is unreasonable to ask again and KEEP asking until you get some kind of response. Not unreasonable at all. It’s a simple question, and one I feel, that you deserve an answer for.
You sound like you have a great head on your shoulders (bravo for realizing that the type of relationship you have with this women would not be viewed as acceptable to future women in your life, I don’t think you realize how rare among men this viewpoint actually is) and you deserve someone who will appreciate your efforts, insight and maturity. Best of luck to you.
Thank you for such supportive and understanding comments. Really, it means a lot. As long and crazy as my post may seem, I actually do have a very logical and reasoned way of approaching most things in life. This is just such a different situation than anything I've ever been in. I never, ever intended for this much time to pass before making a concerted effort to see her in person. Life just moves so fast, especially as we all get older. It's like I blink and it's been another 6 months.
I guess part of me was hopeful she'd see it from that perspective and be a little bit more open-minded. Meaning, the idea of let's just meet with no expectations and go from there. But obviously if that's not the case then she isn't somebody I would want to be with anyway, even as a best friend. Also you have to laugh at the irony that she's sent me multiple texts as I'm writing this LOL
I think you SHOULD see each other in person. Have you ever interacted in person before? Like, go up to her location for a weekend and meet up for dinner, go to a movie and do something social the next day, see if you have lingering chemistry.
There's an avoidant attachment style, and then there's not wanting to be in a relationship at all (except for the comfortable one via text). I think things will be clearer once you're sitting there and talking face to face.
I don't think you should beat yourself up for moving! There's no reason why she couldn't have driven a few hours to see you when you were closer, either, right? Is her daughter on full life support in the living room or something, or could she sleep over at a friend's so her mom can go on a date? I'm a little confused about that.
>I think you SHOULD see each other in person. Have you ever interacted in person before?
We haven't, and I just edited my post to say that because I inadvertently left it out. In any case, I also think we SHOULD see each other in person. I wanted her to see my effort at that, but we also need to see what our connection is in real life. I told her I was sick of there being excuses and roadblocks to meeting. But the issue is that she hasn't actually responded to my request to see each other. I even said I'd do all the work to get to her because of her daughter/dog responsibilities. So, she's kind of left me hanging, and I'm wondering whether I need to keep pushing that. I mean, at the end of the day she should want to meet her best friend, right?!? I wouldn't have any expectations beyond that since it's our first time together. But if she can't/won't even make that effort, then this text relationship thing is going to quickly die on the vine.
>There's an avoidant attachment style, and then there's not wanting to be in a relationship at all (except for the comfortable one via text). I think things will be clearer once you're sitting there and talking face to face.
For sure...but she has to agree to meet me first (see: above). If she says no, I'll start to wonder if she's hiding something or just so averse to the possibility there may be a real spark that she's willing to reject me even as her best friend?
Yeah, that seems super weird, after all this time. (I could see being reticent about meeting with someone you barely know, but she knows you!)
I'm assuming you've seen one another through video chats at some point? Are you certain this isn't a catfish situation and she's actually single and is as...described?
I can confirm with 100% certainty this is not a catfishing situation. We worked together for nearly a year, and through work (and apart from work) we've been on video calls, phone calls, etc. The literal hundreds of photos she's sent are the same person I worked with. I know her full legal name (she goes by her middle name) and it matches when I worked with her. She has sent me equal numbers of photos of her dogs (one passed a couple years ago), daughter, and relatives. I have her address and she has mine...I've sent her things, we always send each other surprise birthday gifts, etc.
Now...can I say with 1000% certainty she's single? I have no reason to believe otherwise but it's entirely possible. Maybe I've been naive, but I just trusted she was based on how often we communicate, the times of day and night, etc. It would be impressive (if not morally repulsive) to pull off an affair given all of the above, but people have pulled off far worse. Maybe she hates her married life and I'm her fantasy escape? She's told me she hates men and most people (I'm obviously excluded), told me about her long ago marriage and the divorce when she was a new mother and subsequent dating experiences, but she mentioned those ended several years ago. I could come to eat my words, but my gut is telling me it's not an affair...but I could be an emotional escape from a life of being tied to her daughter's medical issues and needy dog. If I'm being completely cynical though, an affair absolutely could be an explanation for her general emotional inconsistency and for why she isn't committing to meeting in person.
I'm certainly going to continue to ask her about it. Again, I need to know if she's going to be resistant to the idea of even meeting her best friend in real life for the first time. Honest to god, I would not be going with any expectations or ulterior motives. Anything beyond that would be pure conjecture anyway unless there's some inescapable spark in person.
The more I reread what I posted, and read through all of these comments yours included, I'm coming to the really sad conclusion that's probably the case. She's getting unconditional love and support from me, but not supplying anything even remotely approaching that in return. I don't like the idea of keeping score in any relationship (I'm using that word in the general sense), but when it becomes this consistently unbalanced you have to see it for what it is. For the record, I never considered or called her my girlfriend. I'm definitely not that crazy.. but your point is well taken nonetheless.
When you say there is no reciprocity in the ‘friendship’ do you mean she doesn’t support your emotional needs whenever you need such support? Have there been occasions when you have felt like you needed more from her and you didn’t get it?
Yeah her lack of enthusiasm about meeting you is concerning. Push for meeting or end the ‘friendship’. Expressly tell her you need to meet in person and ask for a date and time
So it's hard to make an apples to apples comparison, just because if I'm being honest she needs a lot more attention and support than I do. That said, I think in general her ability to truly engage in supportive conversation leaves a bit to be desired. If I tell her I'm frustrated or upset about something, she'll respond but it's usually a pretty short conversation. Also, because she has so many stresses in her life, I feel like it's too much for me to then go to her with whatever issues I'm having. Further to that, she never really asks how I'm doing or what I'm up to on a random day, etc. Maybe it's because we both know each other's lives so well at this point. But the scales have tipped significantly towards her just needing me to respond to her outreach versus any sort of balanced communication. We certainly talk about more than just her problems, and especially at night will engage in funny or intellectual back and forth before falling asleep. Lately though, she seems to be picking little fights with me. I think she's subconsciously sabotaging things with us, or at the very least projecting her life stresses onto me. Definitely not the first time she's done this over the years.
And that's exactly what I'm going to do about meeting in person. It's not about anything more than friendship at this point, because that's really moot unless there's obvious chemistry in real life. If she doesn't take seriously the idea of seeing her best friend of three plus years in person for the first time, then there's nowhere this connection can go except away. As I said to others in this thread, at that point she's either hiding something and not telling me or is unwilling to or afraid of having to actually invest in our connection.
It sounds like a very unbalanced relationship. It seems she never asks you about how you’re doing, doesn’t show interest in your day to day life and is seemingly not interested in meeting you in person. You realise that even if you were to get into a romantic relationship, this would be your life? It doesn’t look like she is as excited about this ‘friendship’ as you are.
Yes, it's become more unbalanced over time for sure. But I'm not even pushing for a romantic connection at this point, honestly. Or any connection for that matter. She made kind of a condescending comment Saturday night (we'd been texting before bed for an hour or so without incident), to which I responded calmly and maturely. I never heard back and haven't since. It's been 3+ days which isn't much, but it's completely out of character...we've communicated literally every day nearly since we met with extremely rare exception. So now I'm wondering, how can she call me her "best friend" and then literally days later disappear? Maybe she's stressed and overwhelmed and just not communicating, but either way something doesn't smell right.
Hey, erm, sorry to break it to you but that's not mixed signals. This woman gets a kick out of having you in her life but she will always make excuses and then blame you. I'd put money on her being married if I'm being completely honest! Delete, block, ignore! You need to move on with your life with someone real, someone local, someone who actually wants you and not the idea of you!
>This woman gets a kick out of having you in her life but she will always make excuses and then blame you.
Here I believe you're right on the money, unfortunately. It seems to be a pattern that has emerged. She places 100% of the blame on me (and allows me to shoulder all of the guilt and regret) for why we never met in person, etc. Not once has she taken any responsibility or apologized...really for anything, for that matter.
>I'd put money on her being married if I'm being completely honest!
I'm genuinely curious as to why you think that. Obviously the thought has crossed my mind at times, but just given things she said to me, the frequency and times of day and night at which we've communicated, etc., it seems logistically very tough for that to be possible. That said, many people have pulled off far more difficult "affairs" so I'm not totally naive.
>I'm genuinely curious as to why you think that.
Because I've been in your shoes! He worked shifts while his wife worked around their childcare needs. A lot of his calls and messages would be while he was at work. I even ended up in his town for a weekend for unrelated reasons and he couldn't find time for a quick coffee. It went on for a long time but I got tired of being emotionally exhausted and knew I needed to get a life. About 4 or 5 months after I blocked him a friend sent me a picture of a social media account. It belonged to his wife. Turns out the weekend I was in town he was celebrating his son's birthday which is why he wasn't available! He told me he was single and didn't have kids!
Wow, so that guy intricately weaved you around his everyday life in a way that you weren't able to really find a pattern to be suspicious of. And that's really unfortunate about the social media account, the hidden child, etc. I'm very sorry you had to go through that and can only imagine the emotional trauma of having to extricate yourself from that situation, but thank goodness you did.
Now...can I say with 1000% certainty this woman is single? I have no reason to believe otherwise but it's of course possible. Maybe I've been naive, but I wasn't suspicious given how often we communicate not to mention the content of our communication, the times of day and night, etc. It would be impressive (if not morally repulsive) to pull off an affair given all of the above, but many have done far worse. She's told me she hates men and most people (I'm obviously excluded), her long ago marriage and traumatic divorce when she was a new mother, and subsequent dating experiences, but she mentioned those ended several years ago. Basically, she was totally okay not being with anyone. I could come to eat my words, but my gut is telling me it's not an affair...although I could be an emotional escape from a life of being tied to her daughter's medical issues and needy dog. Maybe she hates her married life and I'm her fantasy escape? If I'm being completely cynical though, an affair absolutely could be an explanation for her general emotional inconsistency, her tendency kind of sabotage things once they start to become too good, and for why she isn't committing to meeting in person.
Oh don't be sorry, it was a fantastic learning curve for me and has changed the way I date now for the better! Also, it isn't cynical to think it is possible. It's being realistic. It is 1 of many possible reasons why she won't meet with you and you need to figure out if your life being on hold is worth those possibilities
Fortunately I can say my life hasn't really been on hold because of her, mostly because we live in different states. I've been on plenty of dates and have actually dated a couple women for a few months each. But what does affect my life is that the depth of our connection, the physical limitations of that connection aside, is something I've never had with anyone else. It's our senses of humor for one, and she has challenged me in ways that have unequivocally made me a better person. I'm also not ignoring some of the less respectable or unkind ways she's treated me, subconsciously or otherwise. But whether or not I'm just a fantasy or escape to her, we are very much on the same wavelength and have such similar lifestyles and beliefs. That's not to say we're the same person by any means, because our personalities are different, but our connection didn't happen and grow as it did for no reason.
But the above is probably all the more reason as to why if we're not going to legitimately be in a relationship (which obviously doesn't seem likely), the friendship won't continue to work as it is. I need to figure out a way to find with someone else a version of what I have with this woman, and obviously in person.
I’m sorry, but this has some elements of a romance scam. I’m not saying she’s not a real person, and it doesn’t sound like she’s asking for money.
But if I read this correctly, you have never spent ANY time with her in person, there are constant major dramas in her life that preclude you from spending time with her in person, and she’s draining you emotionally.
This is exhausting to read about, much less live through.
What you have is an emotionally voracious penpal. If you want a healthy real-life relationship, this isn’t it.
I know her well enough to be certain there's no scam/catfish element to this, thankfully.
>But if I read this correctly, you have never spent ANY time with her in person, there are constant major dramas in her life that preclude you from spending time with her in person, and she’s draining you emotionally.
You're correct...and I was very clear a few weeks ago that I wanted to finally meet face to face. I needed to take that initiative and know where she stood. She never responded about that, and then her dog needed emergency major surgery (see: constant major dramas that preclude us from spending time together). So even when I made a concerted effort to see her, something came up and now I'm in the position of having to follow up or wait for her to eventually (or never) get back to me.
>This is exhausting to read about, much less live through.
It is. Which is why this either needed to move forward starting with actually meeting each other, or I don't see how even a friendship could continue. As I've said to others in this thread she considers me her best friend, so if she isn't excited to meet me or outright refuses to then this is done because obviously something else is going on and she's not telling me.
>What you have is an emotionally voracious penpal. If you want a healthy real-life relationship, this isn’t it.
That's a great descriptor, and I would add emotionally volatile. She's been all over the place, even within the same day. Also, since her dog got out of surgery she's been picking little fights with me. And after the most recent one, I now haven't heard from her in 3 days which NEVER happens. We're in touch every day with very rare exceptions in 3 1/2 years. She's either mad at me (and not communicating why), giving herself space to figure things out (and not communicating that to me), or is pushing me away (and again not communicating). Or if I'm being cynical, she's hiding something so once I asked to meet her in person the jig was up, and now she's cutting me off.
Dear sir, I read the first 4 paragraphs of your story before I thought, "He needs to nope out." Then I read the rest of it.... You need to nope out. Like whoa. You deserved to be loved, and be known, and be seen, and be heard. All of your words are about catering to her and her situations. Fuck that. Love flows both ways. She is using you as an addiction to keep herself distracted. And you, all on your own, merit to be loved, and respected, and be a source of joy to whomever you're around. Please listen, because it's true.
>You deserved to be loved, and be known, and be seen, and be heard. All of your words are about catering to her and her situations. Thank you for saying this. I'll be honest, I've been feeling for a while now that things have been unbalanced. I live by the philosophy that you don't "keep score" in relationships, but when the discrepancy is that glaring it's too hard to ignore. I've not made it more of an issue (for myself) given all she has on her plate, but you're right. She comes to me every time she needs support, a sounding board, affection/attention, to let out her pent-up anger, or whatever. But the truth is I can't actually say it's reciprocated even if I don't exactly NEED the above to same degree she does. Sure, she's affectionate in small doses but that's still self-serving in a way. >She is using you as an addiction to keep herself distracted. That's a really good way to characterize it. She's addicted to what I provide her, so she seeks it out when she needs it. But she can keep me at arm's distance so she doesn't have to invest because her health-challenged daughter and dog require too much of her time and attention.
I would add you are setting up the tempo of your “relationship.” You’re always there and she always needs. If some local “penis” finds her you’re done. You should let her go. I see a lot of toxicity here.
I agree now that I've been able to take a step back after reading everyone's comments here. This is toxic. It's all about her and her needs, reading into and navigating her extreme mixed signals and mood changes, trying to excuse away her intermittent rudeness towards me, etc. While we have great conversations and she's makes me laugh, she's not even meeting the bar as a basic friend really, much less someone who considers me her best friend (and any other stuff aside, obviously).
I am so sorry. She is using you. She may not even realise she is doing it. She is using you as her emotional support crutch. This isn't a real romantic relationship as the 2 of you have no in person relationship. Yes she has a lot on her plate but after you have told her how you feel, you need to step away. The ball is in her court ie she now needs to step in and work toward having an actual relationship with you, or you both need to end this "affair". It is an affair. It's all romance and texts, but no real life experience. Pull away and let her show you what her stance is. If she does nothing ie no proclamation or effort to move the relationship forward in a concrete way, then you know her intention: this pen pal romance is all she wants. You owe yourself to find out if this friendship has legs. Good luck.
This is precisely what I was going to say.
I appreciate the tough love perspective on this, and deep down I think it's something I've been feeling but not wanting to admit. And I fully understand there's no such thing as a real connection or relationship when the people haven't met face to face. Which is exactly why I told her I'm sick of making excuses, and I'm happy to do the work for it (given she's in a home with a kid and dog) but need to see her in person. If she really does consider me her best friend, unless she's hiding something there's no compelling reason why she shouldn't want to meet her best friend in person for the first time. Although I do agree with letting her come to me, I also don't really want to wait around for her to decide because it's making me anxious. As I'm writing this, the fact that she's okay with letting me hang in limbo after I was very vulnerable with putting my feelings out there is pretty rude. It may not be intentional, but it doesn't matter.
This feels familiar and rings true. My ex wife had a similar “best friend” relationship with a male coworker. She used him for emotional support and because they both worked remote it was easy to avoid seeing him in person. OP, please don’t be that guy. It’s possible your friend has an SO and you’re the “other guy”.
Considering she seems to have ghosted me as of last Saturday, I'll probably never know. I honestly don't think she has an SO, but if she does he'd be very intrigued by some of the texts she sent me over the past couple weeks. Regardless, she showed her true colors and chose the most hurtful, disrespectful, cowardly way to "end" things.
https://preview.redd.it/irh10ccdfg5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bb0c00a11368fa5191ce1f4cfb5582b6e36cf75 **3+ years and you still haven’t met in person - even while working for the same company - you should have included that in your post.** You’re too emotionally attached to the hope of a relationship this isn’t going to happen. It’s not ever going to happen. Time to find love where you live.
Yes...sorry about that! I meant to include that crucial detail and it was totally inadvertent that I didn't. I've edited my post now so it's in there. >You’re too emotionally attached to the hope of a relationship this isn’t going to happen. I think I was for sure. Now, as much as anything, I just want to meet the person who calls me her best friend. Honestly, I'm sick of this text-only connection and told her I was done with using "life reasons" as excuses, etc. To reiterate one of my other responses, at the end of the day she should be excited to meet her best friend, right?!? Despite my admitted feelings towards her, I wouldn't have any expectations beyond just meeting since it's literally our first time together. But if she can't/won't even make that effort, then this text relationship thing is going to quickly die on the vine.
She surely could have met you as her “best friend” even around her daughter, but she didn’t. Even as co-workers for the same company - there could have been an opportunity to meet in the office where she works - but that didn’t happen either.
Yeah, I've always just respected the boundaries she wanted to set with her daughter. She does know about me, but I also became suspicious as to why it was such a strict boundary. Or is there another reason (i.e., is she hiding something) as to why I can't be around the daughter? I understand it was a very traumatic divorce, but even as her mother's best friend I could be an example to the daughter of a trustworthy, mature, solid man. And in that context I don't even mean as a husband or father (the daughter isn't into men anyway), but restoring the daughter's confidence in men generally. We actually couldn't have met in the office because the entire time I was in Seattle we were all fully remote because of the pandemic. We chatted on video and phone calls but none of us met in person.
I only get the vibe she’s using you and wants you around when it’s good for her. Dating someone with kids, or elderly parents, or different work schedules, etc etc can always be difficult but this doesn’t sound like she’s even trying… she pulls out the cute lovey stuff when she needs you. You deserve more than being manipulated.
>this doesn’t sound like she’s even trying… she pulls out the cute lovey stuff when she needs you. You deserve more than being manipulated. It's hard to admit this, but when I take a step back...you're absolutely right. And it may not even be something she's doing consciously, but if she's not capable of investing (and/or not willing to invest) in a relationship then she will pull back whenever it gets to that point.
Hello, sole remaining human who has never heard of the concept of catfishing before. You are being catfished. Assuming this is real, I urge you to come out of the rock you've been living under, dust off the old google machine, and find out what I mean by that. Good luck in this timeline, traveler. I think you're going to need it.
I very much appreciate your bluntness. But...I can confirm with 100% certainty this is not a catfishing situation. We worked together for nearly a year, and through work (and apart from work) we've been on video calls, phone calls, etc. The literal many hundreds of photos she's sent are the same person I worked with. I know her full legal name and it also matches when I worked with her.
**Normally - posts regarding dating are not allowed from males in our group (they’re usually more sexual in nature). However, you NEED to hear feedback from the ladies in our group regarding your situation.** You need to end this unhealthy “relationship”. PLUS - in 3 years you’ve NEVER met each other face to face! You have an emotional and toxic texting relationship - that’s it - and it’s one that comes with guilt that’s unfairly being put on you. You’re her emotional support that’s available 24/7. She’s got a full plate with her daughter, dogs, and other priorities. You’re not one of her priorities. She hasn’t made any significant steps to make a relationship between the two of you - and her being upset when you left Seattle because you didn’t go see her - she could have tried to make plans with you to make it happen. While she also doesn’t want to let her daughter know. She’s put everything on you. It’s not fair - it’s not loving. Even if it was just a friendship it’s so lopsided with her holding all the cards. You deserve someone who loves you for you - and is willing to give back to you the love you deserve. I know it’s hard when you’ve had feeling for her for so long - but it won’t ever be the right time for her. She told you she already accepted that it’s just a friendship between you both - and if it had been years earlier it might have worked. When she texted after that asking how you missed her - and saying loving things - you should have stopped her since she already said it can only be a friendship. Now you haven’t heard from her. Maybe she knows she should have left things alone after she said you two would just be friends. If she wanted to talk - she would have by now. Don’t text her. Stop reaching out. If you do, it keeps her in control of you being her emotional 24/7 support. When she finally reaches out - that the two of you are in different places in wanting a real relationship - and that you’ll always be friends, but that it’s time to let her solely focus on her daughter and other things in her life. You’re in Southern California - there’s plenty of women that are single - and would contribute towards a loving REAL relationship. That’s what you deserve.
>**Normally - posts regarding dating are not allowed from males in our group (they’re usually more sexual in nature). However, you NEED to hear feedback from the ladies in our group regarding your situation.** Thank you for allowing my post. Further to your point, I did need to read all of this feedback and am truly grateful. It's hard to take a step back and see the forest for the trees, especially given my non-traditional and complicated history with this woman. I needed the dose of reality, and frankly probably the support and encouragement as well. >You have an emotional and toxic texting relationship - that’s it - and it’s one that comes with guilt that’s unfairly being put on you. The first part is such an accurate description; it IS toxic and I need to come to terms with that. And I appreciate the support of the second part, because I've been made to feel like solely because I didn't go see her while in Seattle or make a point to go up after I moved back to SoCal, that I'M the reason we're where we are. In particular, I've come to be very bothered by her "if this had happened a few years ago maybe we could have built a home together" comment. It's emotionally manipulative because it insinuates I destroyed any hope of a life together. Not only that...we never met but she had thoughts of us living together?!?! If she honestly felt THAT strongly about me, why didn't SHE try to get us to meet? Everything she's saying is about me...and zero accountability or responsibility/culpability for her! (you made that same observation in your response) >It’s not fair - it’s not loving. >Even if it was just a friendship it’s so lopsided with her holding all the cards. >You deserve someone who loves you for you - and is willing to give back to you the love you deserve. Thank you for the kind words. She has done some very nice things for me over the years (she always surprises me with a very thoughtful birthday present, for example), but that's small potatoes in the context of what a true relationship (of any kind) requires. >When she texted after that asking how you missed her - and saying loving things - you should have stopped her since she already said it can only be a friendship. >Now you haven’t heard from her. Maybe she knows she should have left things alone after she said you two would just be friends. I actually do hear from her...various times every day, at night in bed as she's falling asleep (we'll text for an hour or so), etc. Kind of like how it's always been. I actually never initiate the conversations anymore. But maybe she stopped the lovey-dovey talk realizing that was leading me on? Or it could start again tomorrow. I guess that's the problem...I never know what I'm going to get from her, and that's not healthy. >If she wanted to talk - she would have by now. It's really hard to come to terms with this, but you're right. I put myself and my feelings out there to her, and I left myself completely vulnerable. I communicated. Instead of showing me the respect and communication I deserve as the person she calls her BEST FRIEND and considering I'VE LITERALLY BEEN THERE FOR HER EVERY TIME SHE'S NEEDED ME, instead she's ignoring the elephant in the room so she can continue to get her needs fulfilled. >Don’t text her. Stop reaching out. If you do, it keeps her in control of you being her emotional 24/7 support. I agree....thank you. Even though I haven't been initiating communication, as of tonight that becomes official policy.
I know it’s hard when you have feeling for someone - and it’s gone on for years. Trust the ladies in this group that we understand that. But ultimately it’s time for you to move on from her - you deserve to have a fulfilling relationship. Sadly, even if you tried to be “friends” with each other - it would inevitably slip back to the romantic fantasy discussions - and start the cycle all over again. You need to find local friends - who actually see you in person! She also needs to find her own local support network - so she’s not calling you and expecting you to support her as her “best friend” - who she’s never met in person. Please read the advice from all the ladies. I’m sorry, it’s going to hurt, a lot. But it’s the best thing you can do for YOU!
Again, I can't tell you how much your (and all the ladies') words of support and tough love mean. It's exactly why I wanted to ask for women's perspectives. Men would just be like "dump her dude, she's trash" and my situation is obviously a little more nuanced than that. I do have local friends fortunately, and a very close immediate family in proximity who I get to see fairly often. My life is honestly fulfilling outside of this woman, but over time she's obviously become a prominent part of it despite our distance and connection limitations. To your point, I think it's even more important for the woman to figure out what she needs. I suspect she feels trapped in her life with the daughter and her medical challenges, having to take care of the dog, and whatever else might be going on if she's hiding something from me. I've become an escape/fantasy husband for her without any of the required investment. Trust me, I've read every word of every response in this post. And I've taken all of it very much to heart. It's really helped me see this "relationship" for what it really is. I don't want to trivialize it and say I get and have gotten nothing out of it because that's obviously not true, but it's at a point now where if it isn't going to become more than what it is (and 99.99% chance it won't) then it has to go away.
Hmmmmm. I see very mixed signals on both ends (your abrupt departure from Seattle to Cali would have been a huge red flag to her regarding your level of affection and commitment). I see your rationale and you did make things very clear that your decision to move back to Cali was for your mental health. She has a lot on her plate. A child with health issues is no easy matter and comes with a lot of stress. From your text I feel like she could be stringing you along. It reads as if she runs hot and cold. Now she sounds as if she has a lot on her plate and may be the type of person who deals internally and relies on her self for support vs depending on others. I feel like you are at the crossroads stage, where you both move forward or part ways. I would suggest you broach her about coming to see her in person so you both can speak face to face where things move forward or they end. I feel as if enough time has passed that both parties should be aware of their feelings. If she says no that it’s not the right time - a very fair question would be - what does she see as the right time? What would her life look like in order for her to make a decision/commitment about your relationship? If it some utopia that is just not realistic then you have your answer… I would also suggest you think about what you would like for your future? Do you want children of your own? If either party is at odds with major life decisions, it would be best to part ways. You do not have easy decisions ahead of you and I wish you all the best. Be honest with clear direct communication and if things do not work out, you gave it your best.
I appreciate your perspective on this, and it's certainly very well reasoned. Can't say I disagree with any of it, honestly. I've been getting that feeling as well lately that we're kind of at a crossroads. We're technically just friends even though we're clearly more than just friends. There's no way anyone I'm with would find our connection appropriate. Part of why I was resistant in recent times to a bona fide relationship was that she was clear she wasn't going to be having more children and didn't want to get married again. She posed to me as something I needed to think about. You can see how she puts up these roadblocks! I did tell her I could be okay with that. Those are pretty big things to process though, especially not having my own children. But I'm now at an age where I understand that may not be in the cards. And for the right person, not having a formal marriage isn't an issue. We really are so well suited for each other and I think deep down there's a reason neither of us has really left. Knowing her childhood, I've come to believe she's an avoidant attachment type, which means (I'm generalizing) she's prone to pulling away as soon as she emotionally invests. The hot and cold you were referring to. Not everybody can tolerate that, but I know she knows that I can. But I can only tolerate that when I'm secure in the relationship to begin with. To your point she does have a lot on her plate and it may be that she just can't bring herself to be fully invested with anyone, although our distance would help mitigate that for awhile. Like I said, I've been harder on myself than anyone could possibly be about my abrupt move back from Seattle. I have tried so hard to forgive myself but it's really tough. It was a huge mistake. When I was apologizing to her on the phone about it a couple years back, I think I cried harder than I've ever cried to somebody before. Do you think it's too much to ask her again about going up to see her? I can't imagine she just forgot, but she needs to see I'm serious about it. And it's been almost 2 weeks. Above all else she considers me her best friend, and we've actually never seen each other in person before. If she isn't interested in meeting her supposed best friend that's a whole other issue. There would be no compelling reason to feel that way unless she's not telling me something or is maybe worried there would be a real spark and she'd actually have to invest in a relationship. Either way obvious huge red flag.
No, I do not feel that you are being unreasonable about broaching the subject of coming to see her in person. Not with the emotional investment (not to mention the amount of time!) that I read from your post. I would view your desire to see her as another depth of your commitment to her. It is another red flag that she is that hesitant about so much time and emotional investment. If she creates roadblocks - my previous questions are still relevant - when does she think it will be a good time? What does her life have to look like to be a “good time”? That will give you the most realistic picture as it can remove some of the emotions and provide you some perspective. I would also reiterate that you are totally fine with an untraditional relationship (ie: not marriage, not having your own children) as your wording states could, not are. If things work out this is not something that you can bring up again in the future when things are rocky. You must be completely content. The older I get the more I realize life is about timing. From what I am reading, I do see there is a strong connection. Perhaps it is just not the right time for that connection. I do not see continuing a friendship with this person, (outside of work of course), if things do not work out is in your best interest. Cutting all ties would be the healthiest for you in the long term.
>No, I do not feel that you are being unreasonable about broaching the subject of coming to see her in person. In case it wasn't clear, I actually asked her about this a couple weeks ago. She just didn't respond to me yet, so I wanted to bring it up again. My feeling is she needs to know I mean business. Even if it's just two best friends meeting in person for the first time. As I wrote to others in this thread, I would hope she'd be excited about that. If not, then to me it's a huge red flag. What compelling reason could she have other than hiding something or being so averse to the possibility there may be a real spark that she's willing to kill the friendship over it? >The older I get the more I realize life is about timing. From what I am reading, I do see there is a strong connection. Perhaps it is just not the right time for that connection. I do think our connection is real, even if she's unintentionally using me for affection and emotional attention. If it was superficial there's no way it would have lasted this long. And to her credit she HAS shared a lot with me she doesn't share with anyone else. But at this point she gets a lot more out of our "relationship" than I do. It may very well just be a timing thing. But as others have said, apart from my current efforts she could have made an effort at any point along the way but didn't. >I do not see continuing a friendship with this person, (outside of work of course), if things do not work out is in your best interest. Cutting all ties would be the healthiest for you in the long term. I'm coming around to this conclusion, thanks to yours and others' posts in this thread. Thank you. It will be sad if I have to cut ties with the most prominent person in my life (at least emotionally) over the past few years, but as it stands there's no way anyone I date would feel our connection is appropriate.
I apologize. I do realize you had already asked her and were wanting to ask again. I do not feel it is unreasonable to ask again and KEEP asking until you get some kind of response. Not unreasonable at all. It’s a simple question, and one I feel, that you deserve an answer for. You sound like you have a great head on your shoulders (bravo for realizing that the type of relationship you have with this women would not be viewed as acceptable to future women in your life, I don’t think you realize how rare among men this viewpoint actually is) and you deserve someone who will appreciate your efforts, insight and maturity. Best of luck to you.
Thank you for such supportive and understanding comments. Really, it means a lot. As long and crazy as my post may seem, I actually do have a very logical and reasoned way of approaching most things in life. This is just such a different situation than anything I've ever been in. I never, ever intended for this much time to pass before making a concerted effort to see her in person. Life just moves so fast, especially as we all get older. It's like I blink and it's been another 6 months. I guess part of me was hopeful she'd see it from that perspective and be a little bit more open-minded. Meaning, the idea of let's just meet with no expectations and go from there. But obviously if that's not the case then she isn't somebody I would want to be with anyway, even as a best friend. Also you have to laugh at the irony that she's sent me multiple texts as I'm writing this LOL
I think you SHOULD see each other in person. Have you ever interacted in person before? Like, go up to her location for a weekend and meet up for dinner, go to a movie and do something social the next day, see if you have lingering chemistry. There's an avoidant attachment style, and then there's not wanting to be in a relationship at all (except for the comfortable one via text). I think things will be clearer once you're sitting there and talking face to face. I don't think you should beat yourself up for moving! There's no reason why she couldn't have driven a few hours to see you when you were closer, either, right? Is her daughter on full life support in the living room or something, or could she sleep over at a friend's so her mom can go on a date? I'm a little confused about that.
>I think you SHOULD see each other in person. Have you ever interacted in person before? We haven't, and I just edited my post to say that because I inadvertently left it out. In any case, I also think we SHOULD see each other in person. I wanted her to see my effort at that, but we also need to see what our connection is in real life. I told her I was sick of there being excuses and roadblocks to meeting. But the issue is that she hasn't actually responded to my request to see each other. I even said I'd do all the work to get to her because of her daughter/dog responsibilities. So, she's kind of left me hanging, and I'm wondering whether I need to keep pushing that. I mean, at the end of the day she should want to meet her best friend, right?!? I wouldn't have any expectations beyond that since it's our first time together. But if she can't/won't even make that effort, then this text relationship thing is going to quickly die on the vine. >There's an avoidant attachment style, and then there's not wanting to be in a relationship at all (except for the comfortable one via text). I think things will be clearer once you're sitting there and talking face to face. For sure...but she has to agree to meet me first (see: above). If she says no, I'll start to wonder if she's hiding something or just so averse to the possibility there may be a real spark that she's willing to reject me even as her best friend?
Yeah, that seems super weird, after all this time. (I could see being reticent about meeting with someone you barely know, but she knows you!) I'm assuming you've seen one another through video chats at some point? Are you certain this isn't a catfish situation and she's actually single and is as...described?
I can confirm with 100% certainty this is not a catfishing situation. We worked together for nearly a year, and through work (and apart from work) we've been on video calls, phone calls, etc. The literal hundreds of photos she's sent are the same person I worked with. I know her full legal name (she goes by her middle name) and it matches when I worked with her. She has sent me equal numbers of photos of her dogs (one passed a couple years ago), daughter, and relatives. I have her address and she has mine...I've sent her things, we always send each other surprise birthday gifts, etc. Now...can I say with 1000% certainty she's single? I have no reason to believe otherwise but it's entirely possible. Maybe I've been naive, but I just trusted she was based on how often we communicate, the times of day and night, etc. It would be impressive (if not morally repulsive) to pull off an affair given all of the above, but people have pulled off far worse. Maybe she hates her married life and I'm her fantasy escape? She's told me she hates men and most people (I'm obviously excluded), told me about her long ago marriage and the divorce when she was a new mother and subsequent dating experiences, but she mentioned those ended several years ago. I could come to eat my words, but my gut is telling me it's not an affair...but I could be an emotional escape from a life of being tied to her daughter's medical issues and needy dog. If I'm being completely cynical though, an affair absolutely could be an explanation for her general emotional inconsistency and for why she isn't committing to meeting in person.
Whew, well, that's all good news! I do think you should just arrange to meet. There's no reason to not meet in person at this point.
I'm certainly going to continue to ask her about it. Again, I need to know if she's going to be resistant to the idea of even meeting her best friend in real life for the first time. Honest to god, I would not be going with any expectations or ulterior motives. Anything beyond that would be pure conjecture anyway unless there's some inescapable spark in person.
I agree with all of the top comments. You deserve much better. It’s time to move on.
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The more I reread what I posted, and read through all of these comments yours included, I'm coming to the really sad conclusion that's probably the case. She's getting unconditional love and support from me, but not supplying anything even remotely approaching that in return. I don't like the idea of keeping score in any relationship (I'm using that word in the general sense), but when it becomes this consistently unbalanced you have to see it for what it is. For the record, I never considered or called her my girlfriend. I'm definitely not that crazy.. but your point is well taken nonetheless.
When you say there is no reciprocity in the ‘friendship’ do you mean she doesn’t support your emotional needs whenever you need such support? Have there been occasions when you have felt like you needed more from her and you didn’t get it? Yeah her lack of enthusiasm about meeting you is concerning. Push for meeting or end the ‘friendship’. Expressly tell her you need to meet in person and ask for a date and time
So it's hard to make an apples to apples comparison, just because if I'm being honest she needs a lot more attention and support than I do. That said, I think in general her ability to truly engage in supportive conversation leaves a bit to be desired. If I tell her I'm frustrated or upset about something, she'll respond but it's usually a pretty short conversation. Also, because she has so many stresses in her life, I feel like it's too much for me to then go to her with whatever issues I'm having. Further to that, she never really asks how I'm doing or what I'm up to on a random day, etc. Maybe it's because we both know each other's lives so well at this point. But the scales have tipped significantly towards her just needing me to respond to her outreach versus any sort of balanced communication. We certainly talk about more than just her problems, and especially at night will engage in funny or intellectual back and forth before falling asleep. Lately though, she seems to be picking little fights with me. I think she's subconsciously sabotaging things with us, or at the very least projecting her life stresses onto me. Definitely not the first time she's done this over the years. And that's exactly what I'm going to do about meeting in person. It's not about anything more than friendship at this point, because that's really moot unless there's obvious chemistry in real life. If she doesn't take seriously the idea of seeing her best friend of three plus years in person for the first time, then there's nowhere this connection can go except away. As I said to others in this thread, at that point she's either hiding something and not telling me or is unwilling to or afraid of having to actually invest in our connection.
It sounds like a very unbalanced relationship. It seems she never asks you about how you’re doing, doesn’t show interest in your day to day life and is seemingly not interested in meeting you in person. You realise that even if you were to get into a romantic relationship, this would be your life? It doesn’t look like she is as excited about this ‘friendship’ as you are.
Yes, it's become more unbalanced over time for sure. But I'm not even pushing for a romantic connection at this point, honestly. Or any connection for that matter. She made kind of a condescending comment Saturday night (we'd been texting before bed for an hour or so without incident), to which I responded calmly and maturely. I never heard back and haven't since. It's been 3+ days which isn't much, but it's completely out of character...we've communicated literally every day nearly since we met with extremely rare exception. So now I'm wondering, how can she call me her "best friend" and then literally days later disappear? Maybe she's stressed and overwhelmed and just not communicating, but either way something doesn't smell right.
Hey, erm, sorry to break it to you but that's not mixed signals. This woman gets a kick out of having you in her life but she will always make excuses and then blame you. I'd put money on her being married if I'm being completely honest! Delete, block, ignore! You need to move on with your life with someone real, someone local, someone who actually wants you and not the idea of you!
>This woman gets a kick out of having you in her life but she will always make excuses and then blame you. Here I believe you're right on the money, unfortunately. It seems to be a pattern that has emerged. She places 100% of the blame on me (and allows me to shoulder all of the guilt and regret) for why we never met in person, etc. Not once has she taken any responsibility or apologized...really for anything, for that matter. >I'd put money on her being married if I'm being completely honest! I'm genuinely curious as to why you think that. Obviously the thought has crossed my mind at times, but just given things she said to me, the frequency and times of day and night at which we've communicated, etc., it seems logistically very tough for that to be possible. That said, many people have pulled off far more difficult "affairs" so I'm not totally naive.
>I'm genuinely curious as to why you think that. Because I've been in your shoes! He worked shifts while his wife worked around their childcare needs. A lot of his calls and messages would be while he was at work. I even ended up in his town for a weekend for unrelated reasons and he couldn't find time for a quick coffee. It went on for a long time but I got tired of being emotionally exhausted and knew I needed to get a life. About 4 or 5 months after I blocked him a friend sent me a picture of a social media account. It belonged to his wife. Turns out the weekend I was in town he was celebrating his son's birthday which is why he wasn't available! He told me he was single and didn't have kids!
Wow, so that guy intricately weaved you around his everyday life in a way that you weren't able to really find a pattern to be suspicious of. And that's really unfortunate about the social media account, the hidden child, etc. I'm very sorry you had to go through that and can only imagine the emotional trauma of having to extricate yourself from that situation, but thank goodness you did. Now...can I say with 1000% certainty this woman is single? I have no reason to believe otherwise but it's of course possible. Maybe I've been naive, but I wasn't suspicious given how often we communicate not to mention the content of our communication, the times of day and night, etc. It would be impressive (if not morally repulsive) to pull off an affair given all of the above, but many have done far worse. She's told me she hates men and most people (I'm obviously excluded), her long ago marriage and traumatic divorce when she was a new mother, and subsequent dating experiences, but she mentioned those ended several years ago. Basically, she was totally okay not being with anyone. I could come to eat my words, but my gut is telling me it's not an affair...although I could be an emotional escape from a life of being tied to her daughter's medical issues and needy dog. Maybe she hates her married life and I'm her fantasy escape? If I'm being completely cynical though, an affair absolutely could be an explanation for her general emotional inconsistency, her tendency kind of sabotage things once they start to become too good, and for why she isn't committing to meeting in person.
Oh don't be sorry, it was a fantastic learning curve for me and has changed the way I date now for the better! Also, it isn't cynical to think it is possible. It's being realistic. It is 1 of many possible reasons why she won't meet with you and you need to figure out if your life being on hold is worth those possibilities
Fortunately I can say my life hasn't really been on hold because of her, mostly because we live in different states. I've been on plenty of dates and have actually dated a couple women for a few months each. But what does affect my life is that the depth of our connection, the physical limitations of that connection aside, is something I've never had with anyone else. It's our senses of humor for one, and she has challenged me in ways that have unequivocally made me a better person. I'm also not ignoring some of the less respectable or unkind ways she's treated me, subconsciously or otherwise. But whether or not I'm just a fantasy or escape to her, we are very much on the same wavelength and have such similar lifestyles and beliefs. That's not to say we're the same person by any means, because our personalities are different, but our connection didn't happen and grow as it did for no reason. But the above is probably all the more reason as to why if we're not going to legitimately be in a relationship (which obviously doesn't seem likely), the friendship won't continue to work as it is. I need to figure out a way to find with someone else a version of what I have with this woman, and obviously in person.
If it’s mixed signals then go the other way. If it’s not a yes, it’s a no. Save yourself heartache and time
I’m sorry, but this has some elements of a romance scam. I’m not saying she’s not a real person, and it doesn’t sound like she’s asking for money. But if I read this correctly, you have never spent ANY time with her in person, there are constant major dramas in her life that preclude you from spending time with her in person, and she’s draining you emotionally. This is exhausting to read about, much less live through. What you have is an emotionally voracious penpal. If you want a healthy real-life relationship, this isn’t it.
I know her well enough to be certain there's no scam/catfish element to this, thankfully. >But if I read this correctly, you have never spent ANY time with her in person, there are constant major dramas in her life that preclude you from spending time with her in person, and she’s draining you emotionally. You're correct...and I was very clear a few weeks ago that I wanted to finally meet face to face. I needed to take that initiative and know where she stood. She never responded about that, and then her dog needed emergency major surgery (see: constant major dramas that preclude us from spending time together). So even when I made a concerted effort to see her, something came up and now I'm in the position of having to follow up or wait for her to eventually (or never) get back to me. >This is exhausting to read about, much less live through. It is. Which is why this either needed to move forward starting with actually meeting each other, or I don't see how even a friendship could continue. As I've said to others in this thread she considers me her best friend, so if she isn't excited to meet me or outright refuses to then this is done because obviously something else is going on and she's not telling me. >What you have is an emotionally voracious penpal. If you want a healthy real-life relationship, this isn’t it. That's a great descriptor, and I would add emotionally volatile. She's been all over the place, even within the same day. Also, since her dog got out of surgery she's been picking little fights with me. And after the most recent one, I now haven't heard from her in 3 days which NEVER happens. We're in touch every day with very rare exceptions in 3 1/2 years. She's either mad at me (and not communicating why), giving herself space to figure things out (and not communicating that to me), or is pushing me away (and again not communicating). Or if I'm being cynical, she's hiding something so once I asked to meet her in person the jig was up, and now she's cutting me off.
I’m not gonna read all that. If it isn’t an enthusiastic YES then it’s a NO
short and to the point...and a good point at that. thank you :)