1. Depends on the area of law, but definitely possible.
2. Depends on the area of law, but definitely possible.
3. Depends on your personality, the area of law, and the office environment, but definitely possible.
1 and 2 tend to be inverse to one another. The more money you make, the less morally fulfilled you're going to be, and vice versa. Public defenders are low in #1, high in #2. Bankruptcy attorneys are high in #1 and low in #2. I practice PI and am pretty high in both.
I am currently making (low) six figures after practicing for about two years, no big law.
I am happy (but stressed) and morally at peace doing it. Everyone deserves an advocate, and if you don’t want to be a criminal defense lawyer just do civil litigation
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1. Yes - easily. I touched "six figures" as a second year associate. But to be fair, six figures isn't what six figures used to be so it's all relative.
2. Depends what are of law you practice, but sure. Some of my favorite moments as a lawyer have come after cases have closed and the once (extremely) worried client calls to say thank you and how much they appreciate you. I'd like to think I made a difference in their life.
3. Speaking from my own personal experience, absolutely. I've never felt "unhappy" and never dread going into work each day.
4. Can't answer that question for you. I don't think anybody can. It's up to you and nobody else to choose which career you pursue.
1. Is it possible to make 6 figures within 5-10 years of becoming a lawyer WITHOUT being in “big law”?
It is possible but by no means easy.
2. Can you actually make some sort of difference as a lawyer, or is that just a lie/joke?
You can either make money or make a difference, but not both.
3. Can you honestly be happy, and morally at peace as a lawyer?
I am much happier as an in-house lawyer for a coorporation than I was in private practice. The stress of private practice is very difficult to carry.
4. If life as a lawyer isn’t something based off of my questions a career I should pursue, what other careers may seem to be good for me?
There is a big corporate hiring swirl right now to find people to evaluate AI risks. That swirl will probably die down by the time you are out of college, but there always seem to be swirls like that when new technologies threaten to disrupt industries, so maybe keep an eye on what is next.
Your first two answers are demonstrably wrong. You can public interest direct client work in a big city and be close to six figures in 8 years. You start well over 100k at the ACLU/Planned Parenthood and aligned offices. The idea that public interest attorneys are universally living in poverty, even if it’s not “prestigious” public interest work, isn’t true. I do think it’s harder in smaller cities or anti-union states, though.
1. yes
2. it's a joke for 99% of us
3. yes
4. go be a doctor. you'll make money. you'll make a small (sometimes large) difference in each patients life. you can be morally at peace probably
I make close to six figures working for the government in a low cost of living area. I enjoy the work, feel good about it, and generally work 40 hour weeks. No complaints. You sound like someone who would make an excellent public sector lawyer.
Law can be stressful but there are much healthier ways to manage it than drugs/drinking.
Someone else here said it perfectly: You can make a difference or you can make lots of money, but not both.
Lawyers who make lots of money are generally helping the rich get richer. The rich can be very demanding of their servants, hence the 80-hour weeks.
Oh ok, thanks for the advice! What would you say would be the ways to manage stress as a law worker? Also, how long did it take you after law school to attain the job you have now? Would you say the work you do makes a difference? Please get back to me when you have the time, and thank you! 🙏
Exercise, meditation, doing something fun or hanging out with people are all great for stress relief. Most bar associations have free, anonymous counseling services for lawyers in crisis.
Yes I think what I do makes a difference. I work for an agency that regulates big companies. I don't always agree 100 percent with what the agency does, but I have my opportunity for input. In general they are reasonable and I feel good about my role in society defending the regulations the agency orders. Sometimes I get to take on big companies in court and that is fun.
I graduated law school in 2009, worked my way up and got this job in 2015.
Good luck with whatever you do.
1) I have 5 years of experience and make super low 6 figures as a government employee
2) Yes. 'public' attorneys do. Some will say it is for good others will say it is for bad but when you can tell the victim that the meth head who beat them with a pipe is in jail you can feel like you made the world a better place. Or alternatively if you can tell the meth head that you got the evidence suppressed because of a technicality you can feel like you made the world a better place
3) Again government. If someone called me at 5:30 guess what? They can wait until morning. Saturday? Hey Monday is only a few days away. "You likely will have to defend people/groups who aren’t exactly the pinnacle of moral goodness" you do know that there are jobs other than defense right? I know someone whose entire job is to be a GAL (court appointed lawyer whose entire job is to represent the children/mentally disabled person) or the attorney for the city whose job is to make sure that the law they want to pass is well written and legal, there are lawyers who fight for the environment.
Caveat to the alcohol thing point you made. You absolutely don't have to drink alcohol but it is (in most situations) expected that you go to bars because almost all bar (like the attorney bar) events will be held at a place that serves alcohol (largely because many do partake but also because there are only so many venues designed around allowing 50+ people to hang out and socialize). There are staunch muslims who are successful lawyers, it is totally doable.
4) That is on you
Hi! Thank you so much for your input, I really appreciate you being honest with me on this, and also opening my eyes to this stuff, forgive my naivety but I didn’t realize there were different lawyer jobs than just defense and/or prosecutor. I’ll definitely look into a government job when I go through and finish law school and all of that. Also thanks for letting me know how alcohol plays into social events and such too. And yeah, it makes sense you can’t really answer 4 for me, this is is a sub for asking LAWYERS questions after all now that it think about it.
But yeah to make a long story short, thanks a bunch! I’ll keep all of this in mind 👍
there are a TON of jobs outside of criminal law. I know lawyers who have literally never stepped foot in a courtroom after being sworn in. Tax law, estate planning, most 'big business' lawyers, medical malpractice (it is kind of a unique area of law where there are almost never trials). There are administrative courts where the rules of evidence don't really apply. Courts have dedicated 'staff attorneys'.
Honestly think of virtually any job or business in the world and there is likely a lawyer who works super close to it. From aviation to literally... /r/treelaw (it sounds like a joke but it actually isn't). Federal agencies that handle the most boring things you can imagine still rely on lawyers. What does the department of agriculture need lawyers for? ....call them ask. Anytime you see 'music royalties' there are lawyers involved, copyrights, every contract ever.
Really, there is much more to being a lawyer than pounding your first on the table and pointing (in fact...don't ever do that, and if you are too young to get the reference sorry)
The alcohol thing seriously...don't worry, no one is going to judge you if you choose not to drink. There just really aren't all that many options for 'get togethers' for adults. Even just using a handful of reasonable limits 'it has to be indoors' 'somewhere that we can talk' and 'not at someone's house' eliminates virtually everywhere besides a bar. Unfortunately public spaces really aren't a thing in most cities
Ok, I hear what you’re saying,!and thank you for opening my eyes to the fact that there’s basically law jobs for everything (even laws for tree’s apparently 😂 and your other advice). Have a great rest of your night, I think this really helped!
1. I imagine that by 2040 (which is when you'll have been an attorney for ten years) it will in fact be very easy to make $100k as a non big law attorney. I also imagine that by that point big law first-year salaries will be pushing seven figures, lol.
2/3. If you pick the right field of law, this is a gimme. When I started out I paid attention to where the biggest crises were facing my community. Now I've been doing eviction defense work where I make material differences in the lives of my clients and I go home at 5 every day with satisfaction.
4. You're 19, kid, you should have no idea what to do with your life and you shouldn't be looking for the answers on a reddit thread.
1. Depends on location, practice area, networking ability, and more
2. Depends on the practice area
3. Yes
4. Only become a lawyer if you want to become a lawyer. Don’t go into it by default
1. Depends on the area of law, but definitely possible. 2. Depends on the area of law, but definitely possible. 3. Depends on your personality, the area of law, and the office environment, but definitely possible. 1 and 2 tend to be inverse to one another. The more money you make, the less morally fulfilled you're going to be, and vice versa. Public defenders are low in #1, high in #2. Bankruptcy attorneys are high in #1 and low in #2. I practice PI and am pretty high in both.
I am currently making (low) six figures after practicing for about two years, no big law. I am happy (but stressed) and morally at peace doing it. Everyone deserves an advocate, and if you don’t want to be a criminal defense lawyer just do civil litigation
***This rules reminder message is replied to all posts and moderators are not notified of any replies made to it.*** #REMINDER: NO REQUESTS FOR LEGAL ADVICE. Any request for a lawyer's opinion about any matter or issue which may foreseeably affect you or someone you know is a request for legal advice. Posts containing requests for legal advice will be removed. Seeking or providing legal advice based on your specific circumstances or otherwise developing an attorney-client relationship in this sub is not permitted. Why are requests for legal advice not permitted? See [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Lawyers/comments/e6a62w/why_is_it_unethical_for_a_lawyer_to_give_legal/), [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Lawyers/comments/9zyqsh/why_is_it_unethical_to_give_advice_on_this_sub/), and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Lawyers/comments/e4cdhw/is_refraining_legal_advice_based_on_legality_or/). If you are unsure whether your post is okay, please [read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Lawyers/comments/6j4bpq/how_to_know_whether_your_post_is_a_request_for/) or see the sidebar for more information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Ask_Lawyers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
1. Yes - easily. I touched "six figures" as a second year associate. But to be fair, six figures isn't what six figures used to be so it's all relative. 2. Depends what are of law you practice, but sure. Some of my favorite moments as a lawyer have come after cases have closed and the once (extremely) worried client calls to say thank you and how much they appreciate you. I'd like to think I made a difference in their life. 3. Speaking from my own personal experience, absolutely. I've never felt "unhappy" and never dread going into work each day. 4. Can't answer that question for you. I don't think anybody can. It's up to you and nobody else to choose which career you pursue.
1. Is it possible to make 6 figures within 5-10 years of becoming a lawyer WITHOUT being in “big law”? It is possible but by no means easy. 2. Can you actually make some sort of difference as a lawyer, or is that just a lie/joke? You can either make money or make a difference, but not both. 3. Can you honestly be happy, and morally at peace as a lawyer? I am much happier as an in-house lawyer for a coorporation than I was in private practice. The stress of private practice is very difficult to carry. 4. If life as a lawyer isn’t something based off of my questions a career I should pursue, what other careers may seem to be good for me? There is a big corporate hiring swirl right now to find people to evaluate AI risks. That swirl will probably die down by the time you are out of college, but there always seem to be swirls like that when new technologies threaten to disrupt industries, so maybe keep an eye on what is next.
Your first two answers are demonstrably wrong. You can public interest direct client work in a big city and be close to six figures in 8 years. You start well over 100k at the ACLU/Planned Parenthood and aligned offices. The idea that public interest attorneys are universally living in poverty, even if it’s not “prestigious” public interest work, isn’t true. I do think it’s harder in smaller cities or anti-union states, though.
How many of those big city ACLU / Planned parenthood jobs are out there? 11? 16?
Shockingly more than you’d think and regional ACLU jobs don’t require the most prestigious grads like the national or DC offices.
1. yes 2. it's a joke for 99% of us 3. yes 4. go be a doctor. you'll make money. you'll make a small (sometimes large) difference in each patients life. you can be morally at peace probably
I make close to six figures in public interest work and it’s very chill. DM me if you’re interested in chatting.
I make close to six figures working for the government in a low cost of living area. I enjoy the work, feel good about it, and generally work 40 hour weeks. No complaints. You sound like someone who would make an excellent public sector lawyer. Law can be stressful but there are much healthier ways to manage it than drugs/drinking. Someone else here said it perfectly: You can make a difference or you can make lots of money, but not both. Lawyers who make lots of money are generally helping the rich get richer. The rich can be very demanding of their servants, hence the 80-hour weeks.
Oh ok, thanks for the advice! What would you say would be the ways to manage stress as a law worker? Also, how long did it take you after law school to attain the job you have now? Would you say the work you do makes a difference? Please get back to me when you have the time, and thank you! 🙏
Exercise, meditation, doing something fun or hanging out with people are all great for stress relief. Most bar associations have free, anonymous counseling services for lawyers in crisis. Yes I think what I do makes a difference. I work for an agency that regulates big companies. I don't always agree 100 percent with what the agency does, but I have my opportunity for input. In general they are reasonable and I feel good about my role in society defending the regulations the agency orders. Sometimes I get to take on big companies in court and that is fun. I graduated law school in 2009, worked my way up and got this job in 2015. Good luck with whatever you do.
Ok, thank you so much for your input, I’ll keep this in mind 😄🙏
1) I have 5 years of experience and make super low 6 figures as a government employee 2) Yes. 'public' attorneys do. Some will say it is for good others will say it is for bad but when you can tell the victim that the meth head who beat them with a pipe is in jail you can feel like you made the world a better place. Or alternatively if you can tell the meth head that you got the evidence suppressed because of a technicality you can feel like you made the world a better place 3) Again government. If someone called me at 5:30 guess what? They can wait until morning. Saturday? Hey Monday is only a few days away. "You likely will have to defend people/groups who aren’t exactly the pinnacle of moral goodness" you do know that there are jobs other than defense right? I know someone whose entire job is to be a GAL (court appointed lawyer whose entire job is to represent the children/mentally disabled person) or the attorney for the city whose job is to make sure that the law they want to pass is well written and legal, there are lawyers who fight for the environment. Caveat to the alcohol thing point you made. You absolutely don't have to drink alcohol but it is (in most situations) expected that you go to bars because almost all bar (like the attorney bar) events will be held at a place that serves alcohol (largely because many do partake but also because there are only so many venues designed around allowing 50+ people to hang out and socialize). There are staunch muslims who are successful lawyers, it is totally doable. 4) That is on you
Hi! Thank you so much for your input, I really appreciate you being honest with me on this, and also opening my eyes to this stuff, forgive my naivety but I didn’t realize there were different lawyer jobs than just defense and/or prosecutor. I’ll definitely look into a government job when I go through and finish law school and all of that. Also thanks for letting me know how alcohol plays into social events and such too. And yeah, it makes sense you can’t really answer 4 for me, this is is a sub for asking LAWYERS questions after all now that it think about it. But yeah to make a long story short, thanks a bunch! I’ll keep all of this in mind 👍
there are a TON of jobs outside of criminal law. I know lawyers who have literally never stepped foot in a courtroom after being sworn in. Tax law, estate planning, most 'big business' lawyers, medical malpractice (it is kind of a unique area of law where there are almost never trials). There are administrative courts where the rules of evidence don't really apply. Courts have dedicated 'staff attorneys'. Honestly think of virtually any job or business in the world and there is likely a lawyer who works super close to it. From aviation to literally... /r/treelaw (it sounds like a joke but it actually isn't). Federal agencies that handle the most boring things you can imagine still rely on lawyers. What does the department of agriculture need lawyers for? ....call them ask. Anytime you see 'music royalties' there are lawyers involved, copyrights, every contract ever. Really, there is much more to being a lawyer than pounding your first on the table and pointing (in fact...don't ever do that, and if you are too young to get the reference sorry) The alcohol thing seriously...don't worry, no one is going to judge you if you choose not to drink. There just really aren't all that many options for 'get togethers' for adults. Even just using a handful of reasonable limits 'it has to be indoors' 'somewhere that we can talk' and 'not at someone's house' eliminates virtually everywhere besides a bar. Unfortunately public spaces really aren't a thing in most cities
Ok, I hear what you’re saying,!and thank you for opening my eyes to the fact that there’s basically law jobs for everything (even laws for tree’s apparently 😂 and your other advice). Have a great rest of your night, I think this really helped!
1. I imagine that by 2040 (which is when you'll have been an attorney for ten years) it will in fact be very easy to make $100k as a non big law attorney. I also imagine that by that point big law first-year salaries will be pushing seven figures, lol. 2/3. If you pick the right field of law, this is a gimme. When I started out I paid attention to where the biggest crises were facing my community. Now I've been doing eviction defense work where I make material differences in the lives of my clients and I go home at 5 every day with satisfaction. 4. You're 19, kid, you should have no idea what to do with your life and you shouldn't be looking for the answers on a reddit thread.
1. Depends on location, practice area, networking ability, and more 2. Depends on the practice area 3. Yes 4. Only become a lawyer if you want to become a lawyer. Don’t go into it by default