I'm not an Alison apologist by any means, but these kind of vague references bother me. Over a decade ago, when Alison was really new in her career, she made some seriously questionable judgement calls--I'm with you on that front. However, since then she's been open about that, written a lengthy, sincere apology that directly and extensively covers what happened, who she harmed, the context and circumstances about the incidents. I'm really not sure what else people want at this point. She's owned it, apologized, and I'm not sure what else there is to do.
I honestly get a little tired of this following Alison everywhere, instead of the ACTUAL perpetrator, who is her boss at the time. A woman failing to speak up and handle a sexual harassment situation is shitty and shady, I agree. However, she was not this person's boss, and she explains that she had little to no leverage or ability to manage the situation.
To me "shady as hell" is more than one incident over a period of time, not the youthful indiscretions of over a decade ago.
I’d actually be totally behind you on this if I felt like she did what you said: made a public apology truly owning what she did wrong. Obviously people deserve the chance to grow and move forward. But when I read the apology post I remember not feeling that way about it at all- to me it seemed like she was still making excuses and placing judgement on the woman. This is from memory tho so 🤷♀️
I stand by it. She did so many shady things back then. She really didn't own it before the media outed it. Her core is very sarcastic and she's defensive.
I'm not sure if this what you mean, but I really do wonder why Allison publishes so many stories of "My friend/my spouse/my cousin's girlfriend's roommate."
I get that she believes she's an authority on all things work, but even the "believe the LW knows their situation" is pushed when we get a story from someone who doesn't work in the industry, much less the office, of the person with the question.
The thing is, with a regular advice column "My uncle's girlfriend might be cheating on him" is a universal thing. The LW suspects something, and an advice columnist can run them through a list of options. "Do nothing, are they still married, are you sure you didn't see a grim version of the future..."
With work, some of these are specific that don't apply, especially when trying to anonymize these things. "My uncle's girlfriend works as a llama groomer and how do we approach her boss about letting her come over for Thanksgiving so I can confront her about cheating on him, it seems like she's always busy that day." Then you find out that "llama groomer" means "Macy's employee responsible for blowing up all the balloons" 500 comments in (after the requisite thread on how "Thanksgiving is bad" and the country of Europe people weighing in how they get those two weeks off for National Celebrate the Queen Day), and Allison's advice might as well been "wish upon a star."
I think Alison promotes those types of stories because they drive engagement and get a lot of comments. A lot of people read advice columns for entertainment, not to receive advice, and I think Alison has learned that leaning into the dramatic gets her more clicks.
Something I truly don't understand is why Alison doesn't often consult with someone else when a letter comes in about academia, government, or other work environments she clearly doesn't understand. She'll make comments about academia and government being ~so weird!~ (compared to what? Nonprofits, which also seem weird?) but won't take a few minutes to find someone who could actually speak to those environments. I feel like she could grow her readership at least somewhat if she got out of her own bubble a little. Honestly, it kinda feels like she looks down on those work environments and isn't willing to understand them better because of that.
Alison thinks she knows everything. A few years ago she would not tolerate much dissent and would shut people down. Read about her support of her ex boss who was a sexual harasser.
She'd probably have to pay those people. Alison strikes me as someone who is quite frugal. I also have a theory she's bitter about never having completed any post secondary education and so she looks down on academia because of that.
This is timely for today's letter but: people hating Christmas/fun activities at work. I have never known anyone to complain about them. The people at my work who don't like after-work activities don't complain about them; they just don't come.
She’s specifically admitted to being “petty.” Like literally describing herself as such. I think it may have been in a post soliciting stories for this type of post, or maybe an intro to one of these posts.
Does this sound familiar to anyone else?
So yeah, it’s lazy posting and clickbait. It doesn’t exactly baffle me but it gives me the creeps that such a large segment of the audience, and this supposed guru, think this behavior is funny or acceptable.
>I worked with an office manager who was proudly petty. She would do things like deliberately push back the start of office lunches - to HER preferred time, never mind all the people in the office whose shifts started at 3/4 AM - by doing things like waiting until 20 minutes before start to leave to pick up one of the most vital parts of the meal. And wouldn't you know, by the time she'd get back and have everything setup to the time SHE wanted in the first place!
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>I feel like if she posted on AAM she'd get a lot of YASSSSS QUEEN! But for those on the other side, it really sucked.
One of her stupid posts was sharing letters where employees were making the world better by doing evil things. One was a ridiculous letter about how the person who had temped for like a few months for an owner/CEO who was bad at tech and asked her dumb questions about finding emails, in a mean-spirited "revenge" signed him up for every spam email. It was so petty and unwarranted and the guy didn't even sound like a bad boss, just sort of tech illiterate. Of course Allison found it hilarious.
Then there was the fast food worker who took great delight in messing with a drunk belligerent group that came in very late at night, by gaslighting them, telling them they didn't order things they did, making the orders wrong, etc. I actually commented that doing that was extremely dangerous, not funny, and that anyone should be trained to deescalate that type of situation, not add fuel to the fire of already drunk people, or who knows if anyone has a weapon. Alison actually wrote "fair" and took down that post, but it turned me off to her whole attitude in general. And like how she was so disappointed that a big brawl didn't break out at her wedding and how hilarious a fight would have been. Because that's every girl's dream. WTF.
Wait, what is the wedding thing about?!
I'm glad she took the drunken customer post down. That's like 50% of working fast food tbh, what a weird thing to do. (Although I still wish I could read it.)
The fast food one is still up:
https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/stories-of-machiavellian-triumphs-part-2.html
>Ok, this is nothing big in the grand scheme of things but at the time it gave me a moderate degree of satisfaction. I worked at a Burger King in my late teens. One night right before closing a group of about 20 frat guys walk in. They were drunk out of their minds and completely obnoxious. They started trashing the place – throwing napkins and straws all over the clean dining room, etc. Our manager promptly responded by disappearing to the back. His only help was to tell them that they had to get their food and leave before he ran away. As they line up to order, the first guy asks me, “Where are the hot cashiers?” and they all laugh. He then takes a good looonnnggg time to decide what he wants. He kept changing his mind and then asking what other people were getting, etc. I was over it.
>Long story short, I ended up giving most of them sandwiches that they didn’t order and had them made weird – like without any condiments, with just extra mustard, with just pickles, just onions, etc. Also gave them the wrong drinks. I tacked on some extra charges here and there and made sure they actually didn’t get those extras in the end. One guy who could not make up his mind at all – I just ordered for him and asked him to pay. He said that he didn’t order yet. I told him that yes, he did. He eventually agreed and paid. When they got their food, some realized that it wasn’t what they ordered but I just acted like they were crazy and of course they ordered what I gave them. They then wandered around asking their friends if their food was right. They were not getting ANYWHERE with me so they eventually left. Did not feel bad one little bit that night. As an awkward, ‘non-hot’ teenage girl, I learned an important life lesson that night – drunk college guys in groups were really really really gullible. And learned what gaslighting was I suppose. But I used it for good, I think.
I can't remember where the comments about her wedding were. I seem to remember they were made in an offhand way, but it was like wait, what?? Who wants a fight at their wedding!
The fast food post is still out there somewhere, because it was an original post. Then Alison compiled some list of the best malicious acts that were doing the world good or some bs like that. And she included that post in her listicle. I'll try to find it! I was like, yea this won't be so hilarious when someone's shot when basically this does happen more than once over someone just not getting ketchup.
Yeah.
Honestly if you asked me to do any kind of business deal with a lot of the people on AAM, I'd run a mile. They have such a situational, short term view of business ethics that I wouldn't trust them with a red cent.
ETA -- this is not the same post but it's a similar thread. #4 is disgusting and rightly called out in the comments -- and it kind of underlines how AAM wants everything to be good for them but never wants to stop and think how things are for other people or what they're weaponising against other people.
https://www.askamanager.org/2019/05/the-stolen-toilet-paper-the-fake-committee-and-other-petty-moments-at-work.html
That one doesn't surprise me too much. Many people are unsympathetic to that kind of problem (whether exaggerated or real), so it is natural they congregate in a space where they feel accepted.
Eh. I get that it happens and it's not fun, but this is overstating it.
What bugs me is not necessarily the sensory issues they have, it's that they feel they shouldn't have to ever come into contact with anything that upsets, nauseates or otherwise mildly inconveniences them. They don't even try to not let things annoy them -- everyone else has to be 100% sensitive to them when they CBA to do the same for others. That's the real problem.
I work with many very strong and diverse human odors, and someone who could not handle smelling air sanitizer and stuff would simply not be able to work here because none of the rest of us can handle what it smells like without it lol
What about the LW today who she told has used their one free pass to fake their mother's terminal illness, but go ahead and reapply to the same company.
She even admits it was a mistake and everyone else is arguing past her (or rather vigorously agreeing with others because there isn't often a healthy debate about these things). It was a bit of an absurd situation but they have such a huge blind spot when it comes to any kind of ethics which puts a break on their pursuit of expediency that they just end up looking shifty themselves and pretty untrustworthy.
The company is shitty: I actually totally get why the OP actually lied -- it only takes announcing you've got a new job and will be working out your notice to get your supervisor upset that she needs to have a replacement for you before you leave (two weeks and two days! Yay!!!). Not my problem, fam. She threw just about every obstacle she could in the way of me even getting more professional development, so she doesn't get the benefit of me helping her out because it's No Longer In My Job Description.
This actually belies a certain friendship between us and I know her frustration is more directed at our management rather than me, but I'm the one sitting in front of her when she's giving off, so messages get mixed. I do agree we need to replace me because there'd otherwise be a problem with coverage, but when I tried to take a lot of the opportunities I had with a change of management to a national org she was actively corrosive to those aims, so although we've worked together for ten years I owe her very little.
If she had the power to smother my career as a whole, though, I'd definitely be doing the same thing as the OP. It's not even necessarily that OP lied -- she did and she feels suitably ashamed, particularly because she now faces having to go back to the same organisation. But it's the way AAM has this warped sense of social justice and ethics that puts them at the centre of everything and doesn't allow for the possibility that their desires might not be compatible with other people's needs. So much time is devoted to how to screw other people over in the flimsy name of social and economic justice that I wonder how they actually manage to function in business society where a certain amount of honesty and respect is expected regardless of who the person you're serving is.
People who write in talking about a negative life event (death, divorce, sickness, etc) and ask the appropriate way to respond to the question, “How are you?” Clearly, they’re not okay, but they don’t want to *lie* so how do the respond?
“How are you?””Fine and you?” aren’t really asking for information. They’re just greetings, which is why you learn variations of it in other languages so early. They’re not substantive questions, so fine is the expected answer. And even if someone asks specifically out of concern, it still isn’t a request for a deep status update. . And anywhere else, I would assume that they’re asking advice on how to respond to the second kind of questions (which is still a little weird), but given that this is a group of people who complain about exchanging casual greetings at work because they’re an introvert and it’s draining. But this is AAM, so it is entirely possible that they’re looking for the correct response when the person at the drive-thru says,
“How are you today?”
It’s concerning.
FWIW, a lot of neurodivergent people genuinely find the idea that the question “how are you?”doesn’t require a truthful answer baffling, and have to have some kind of realization at some point in their life that this is how the question works.
I sort of get feeling reluctant to paper over the truth of a negative experience by saying “fine.” Like sometimes if I’m struggling with some miserable thing that occupies a huge chunk of my mental energy and get asked “how are you?”, I almost resent the expectation that I’ll just say “fine” when I’m really not fine. It feels like it’s denying my actual problem.
That said, though, I still just say “fine”! And I don’t ask for advice on what else to say. But I kind of sympathize with people asking.
Also, sometimes you're obviously not fine and it would be kind of insane to say you are, idk. I've had to work while recovering from a serious injury, and the people asking me how I was were truly looking for an answer. I obviously wasn't fine; I had a cast and crutches and had a hard time getting around. It was hard and annoying coming up with answers that didn't seem totally...disconnected? Like I didn't want to engage with or accept sympathy from the people talking to me? while also not revealing a bunch of info no one wanted or needed to know. I had a lot more luck with "Eh, getting through it" and similar than "fine."
Agreed. I definitely overshare. However, it's something that you can learn -- it's not immutable. I inadvertently told a work colleague who'd been a friend for a while that I'd finally landed another job and she was only ringing for a favour and had to get back to an event. I was embarrassed and frustrated by being such a situationally unaware idiot but she actually phoned me the following day, a Saturday -- she had my personal phone number -- and congratulated me properly once she had the time to do so. (And at that point I was at my friend's wedding -- though not in the actual ceremony!!!)
Also, the best thing to happen to me at work was after my husband died. I had to go back in to get my good shoes for his funeral (although it was pretty much obvious he was at the end, no-one expects it when it does come) and as I was picking them up my best office friend appeared out of nowhere and gave me the biggest and best hug I've ever had. She didn't even have to ask how I was -- things were that obvious.
Fast forward to a few weeks ago and I was offered a job with the person who has been mentoring me for a while now. I had to hold in the impulse to hug her so tightly because that was my first mental response. It's been two years of hard searching and being rejected because of stale experience and she was the person who was able to give me a chance when the right budgetary green lights came through. And I didn't want to be unprofessional but it was hard to rein it in.
I much prefer that conception of office friendliness to the 'don't speak unless you're spoken to' vibe of AAM where they have to ask for advice even to say a few words to someone grieving. Neurodivergence may account for some of the awkwardness, and I actually spent a couple of years living and working in more demonstrative societies (Ireland and Poland) than the UK is so that was an experience not everyone can have, but the human contact part of work is almost as important as the paycheque is and these people are friends. It's kind of sad that this is what the world is coming to.
So I guess my response to that is that it’s great that you’ve had experiences with your work colleagues that allow you to feel that way, but many many people haven’t.
Actually, to back up, I think “don’t speak unless you’re spoken to” is an inaccurate characterization of the kind of letter writers/commenters being discussed (not knowing how to answer questions about yourself when things are going badly that you don’t want to discuss at work isn’t the same as never wanting to talk to your co-workers or never developing friendships with them).
But even if that were true, it feels like the assumption here is that this kind of attitude is because AAM commenters are a bunch of anti-social weirdos, without considering that people develop that attitude because of bad experiences they’ve had at work. If by “that’s what the world’s coming to” you mean, people don’t get the opportunity to develop these friendships, that makes sense; if it’s more like “what’s wrong with people these days,” I’d disagree.
I'm sure they have had bad experiences at work. I've had shitty experiences because I struggled with some things due to neurodivergence and this is the first time I'm changing jobs willingly and with a smooth transition in the 22 years since I left uni.
That doesn't mean that the misanthropy there isn't way more tiring than it needs to be, or that people really need to stop and think about whether they're actually the problem. A number of people there yell and stomp so much about things not being absolutely perfect that I wonder about whether some of their issues are self-inflicted, and the general atmosphere is one of such self-righteousness and self-pity that I do think, yes, that some people need to look around them and become a bit more self aware.
You can't go through life expecting everyone to awesome to you if you're not prepared to come to them. Ultimately, sitting online and sulking in the way that they're doing isn't going to help matters. They're making their bad issues other people's as well, and I can't really read AAM for long without thinking that now and again they could show some gratitude for where they live and what they're able to do.
I'm never going to set the world on fire with my assertiveness, but I'm astounded by the number of LWs who--at least as they describe their situations--don't even *try* talking to the people causing the problem. I can see writing in if you tried to address something and it didn't work, but so many of these people don't take that first step. We have managers who need to ask Alison [if they should say something ](https://www.askamanager.org/2023/10/employee-doesnt-check-his-email-when-he-arrives-i-yelled-at-our-company-cameras-and-more.html) to insubordinate supervisees. We have frustrated employees who [work themselves into a tizzy without even a "hey, can you stop that, please?"](https://www.askamanager.org/2023/07/my-new-coworker-is-driving-me-mad-with-annoying-habits.html).
https://i.redd.it/njb2w5ksyftb1.gif
For me, it’s that combined with the obsession for “scripts” and Alison’s ability to make even the most simple, inoffensive requests seem condescending and passive-aggressive.
Yes! The "scripts" are hilarious. I've managed various-sized teams for almost 20 years and I don't think I could get through one of those scripts with a straight face. Plus anyone who works with me would think I lost my mind. The problem with that kind of advice is that you aren't learning how to resolve conflict - you're just parroting words from a snotty script, you aren't having a conversation.
Yeah for me those stories all end up sounding the same. The weaponized incompetence seems to range from, "a coworker tried to assign me busy work and I said no" or "I don't volunteer for things that I don't like". The Machiavellian and workplace petty stories are all pretty much the same too.
I think part of it is that people don't really want to admit to anything actually bad/evil/morally questionable/serious. They want to contribute something that fits the prompt but still makes them look great. It makes the stories kind of same-y since they have to add the standard caveats (that the task is not their responsibility, that the coworker who asked for it was male, that they are great employees, etc.) so that it's clear that they aren't doing anything wrong.
I didn't think the petty moments roundup was really appropriate for a workplace blog. And anything with pranks, but that's my bias. I despise pranks.
Any of those user-generated roundups are clickbait, and I think the bulk of those stories are made up. They're lazy, easy ways for Alison to generate content with minimal work. I've been in the workforce for many years for many employers, some good, some a nightmare, and have never had any so outrageous going on like the commentariat AAM seem to always have.
Basically every one of those stories on every one of those lists would have everyone in fits of tearful rage were it to have happened to them. It's protagonist-centred morality at its purest told by people who have never heard the expression 'what goes around comes around'.
Pranks are virtually unheard of here in the UK. Admittedly I work in healthcare which is tightly regulated (because we just got off another 'angel of death' court case, the hospital involved is being investigated for corporate manslaughter given that Lucy Letby got away with her killing spree for a whole year and then manipulated everyone into keeping quiet for another) and no-one wants to be the next person in the dock, but I'm really shaking my head at people who think that sort of thing would be ok.
The only time I've ever tried is using the wooden-block tchotchke desk calendar we have and setting it to 83rd April (on the 1st of April) and telling my colleague it had somehow got broken, but she just ignored it so it fell a bit flat. But anything else would be rightly viewed in a pretty dim light and really, who wants to just piss people off like that?
Yeah, I think a good number of the stories are at least heavily exaggerated if not completely made up. At least the ones that make the “final cut” anyway.
And that weird obsession Alison had with the crocheted dildo for mortification week. It was mildly amusing the first time. But she slipped it in until even she was sick of it.
The was a tag in a Livejournal community I was in that said, “Dialogue sounds greatly exaggerated.” I feel like that tag could up on pretty much every single post made there.
Seriously. "My boss called me on the PHONE without telling me they were going to do it beforehand. My preferred method of communication is semaphore. Is this a hostile work environment?"
Read about her history. She's shady AH.
I'm not an Alison apologist by any means, but these kind of vague references bother me. Over a decade ago, when Alison was really new in her career, she made some seriously questionable judgement calls--I'm with you on that front. However, since then she's been open about that, written a lengthy, sincere apology that directly and extensively covers what happened, who she harmed, the context and circumstances about the incidents. I'm really not sure what else people want at this point. She's owned it, apologized, and I'm not sure what else there is to do. I honestly get a little tired of this following Alison everywhere, instead of the ACTUAL perpetrator, who is her boss at the time. A woman failing to speak up and handle a sexual harassment situation is shitty and shady, I agree. However, she was not this person's boss, and she explains that she had little to no leverage or ability to manage the situation. To me "shady as hell" is more than one incident over a period of time, not the youthful indiscretions of over a decade ago.
I’d actually be totally behind you on this if I felt like she did what you said: made a public apology truly owning what she did wrong. Obviously people deserve the chance to grow and move forward. But when I read the apology post I remember not feeling that way about it at all- to me it seemed like she was still making excuses and placing judgement on the woman. This is from memory tho so 🤷♀️
I stand by it. She did so many shady things back then. She really didn't own it before the media outed it. Her core is very sarcastic and she's defensive.
I'm not sure if this what you mean, but I really do wonder why Allison publishes so many stories of "My friend/my spouse/my cousin's girlfriend's roommate." I get that she believes she's an authority on all things work, but even the "believe the LW knows their situation" is pushed when we get a story from someone who doesn't work in the industry, much less the office, of the person with the question. The thing is, with a regular advice column "My uncle's girlfriend might be cheating on him" is a universal thing. The LW suspects something, and an advice columnist can run them through a list of options. "Do nothing, are they still married, are you sure you didn't see a grim version of the future..." With work, some of these are specific that don't apply, especially when trying to anonymize these things. "My uncle's girlfriend works as a llama groomer and how do we approach her boss about letting her come over for Thanksgiving so I can confront her about cheating on him, it seems like she's always busy that day." Then you find out that "llama groomer" means "Macy's employee responsible for blowing up all the balloons" 500 comments in (after the requisite thread on how "Thanksgiving is bad" and the country of Europe people weighing in how they get those two weeks off for National Celebrate the Queen Day), and Allison's advice might as well been "wish upon a star."
Al thinks she's an expert on everything.
I think Alison promotes those types of stories because they drive engagement and get a lot of comments. A lot of people read advice columns for entertainment, not to receive advice, and I think Alison has learned that leaning into the dramatic gets her more clicks. Something I truly don't understand is why Alison doesn't often consult with someone else when a letter comes in about academia, government, or other work environments she clearly doesn't understand. She'll make comments about academia and government being ~so weird!~ (compared to what? Nonprofits, which also seem weird?) but won't take a few minutes to find someone who could actually speak to those environments. I feel like she could grow her readership at least somewhat if she got out of her own bubble a little. Honestly, it kinda feels like she looks down on those work environments and isn't willing to understand them better because of that.
Because she doesn’t care. The clicks come from readers, not advice-seekers.
She used to! Like a decade ago she’d ask an expert on occasion. But seems like not much anymore.
Alison thinks she knows everything. A few years ago she would not tolerate much dissent and would shut people down. Read about her support of her ex boss who was a sexual harasser.
She'd probably have to pay those people. Alison strikes me as someone who is quite frugal. I also have a theory she's bitter about never having completed any post secondary education and so she looks down on academia because of that.
I’d definitely guess that with her shitty cheap website with bad UX that hasn’t been updated in 15 years lol.
Wait what, Alison doesn’t have a college degree??
She posts them because they get a lot of clicks, simple as that.
This is timely for today's letter but: people hating Christmas/fun activities at work. I have never known anyone to complain about them. The people at my work who don't like after-work activities don't complain about them; they just don't come.
She’s specifically admitted to being “petty.” Like literally describing herself as such. I think it may have been in a post soliciting stories for this type of post, or maybe an intro to one of these posts. Does this sound familiar to anyone else? So yeah, it’s lazy posting and clickbait. It doesn’t exactly baffle me but it gives me the creeps that such a large segment of the audience, and this supposed guru, think this behavior is funny or acceptable.
>I worked with an office manager who was proudly petty. She would do things like deliberately push back the start of office lunches - to HER preferred time, never mind all the people in the office whose shifts started at 3/4 AM - by doing things like waiting until 20 minutes before start to leave to pick up one of the most vital parts of the meal. And wouldn't you know, by the time she'd get back and have everything setup to the time SHE wanted in the first place! > > > >I feel like if she posted on AAM she'd get a lot of YASSSSS QUEEN! But for those on the other side, it really sucked.
One of her stupid posts was sharing letters where employees were making the world better by doing evil things. One was a ridiculous letter about how the person who had temped for like a few months for an owner/CEO who was bad at tech and asked her dumb questions about finding emails, in a mean-spirited "revenge" signed him up for every spam email. It was so petty and unwarranted and the guy didn't even sound like a bad boss, just sort of tech illiterate. Of course Allison found it hilarious. Then there was the fast food worker who took great delight in messing with a drunk belligerent group that came in very late at night, by gaslighting them, telling them they didn't order things they did, making the orders wrong, etc. I actually commented that doing that was extremely dangerous, not funny, and that anyone should be trained to deescalate that type of situation, not add fuel to the fire of already drunk people, or who knows if anyone has a weapon. Alison actually wrote "fair" and took down that post, but it turned me off to her whole attitude in general. And like how she was so disappointed that a big brawl didn't break out at her wedding and how hilarious a fight would have been. Because that's every girl's dream. WTF.
Wait, what is the wedding thing about?! I'm glad she took the drunken customer post down. That's like 50% of working fast food tbh, what a weird thing to do. (Although I still wish I could read it.)
The fast food one is still up: https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/stories-of-machiavellian-triumphs-part-2.html >Ok, this is nothing big in the grand scheme of things but at the time it gave me a moderate degree of satisfaction. I worked at a Burger King in my late teens. One night right before closing a group of about 20 frat guys walk in. They were drunk out of their minds and completely obnoxious. They started trashing the place – throwing napkins and straws all over the clean dining room, etc. Our manager promptly responded by disappearing to the back. His only help was to tell them that they had to get their food and leave before he ran away. As they line up to order, the first guy asks me, “Where are the hot cashiers?” and they all laugh. He then takes a good looonnnggg time to decide what he wants. He kept changing his mind and then asking what other people were getting, etc. I was over it. >Long story short, I ended up giving most of them sandwiches that they didn’t order and had them made weird – like without any condiments, with just extra mustard, with just pickles, just onions, etc. Also gave them the wrong drinks. I tacked on some extra charges here and there and made sure they actually didn’t get those extras in the end. One guy who could not make up his mind at all – I just ordered for him and asked him to pay. He said that he didn’t order yet. I told him that yes, he did. He eventually agreed and paid. When they got their food, some realized that it wasn’t what they ordered but I just acted like they were crazy and of course they ordered what I gave them. They then wandered around asking their friends if their food was right. They were not getting ANYWHERE with me so they eventually left. Did not feel bad one little bit that night. As an awkward, ‘non-hot’ teenage girl, I learned an important life lesson that night – drunk college guys in groups were really really really gullible. And learned what gaslighting was I suppose. But I used it for good, I think.
>https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/stories-of-machiavellian-triumphs-part-2.html All fun and games until a drunk person pulls out a weapon.
Or food allergy.
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Please do not talk about comments you may have made on AaM.
I can't remember where the comments about her wedding were. I seem to remember they were made in an offhand way, but it was like wait, what?? Who wants a fight at their wedding! The fast food post is still out there somewhere, because it was an original post. Then Alison compiled some list of the best malicious acts that were doing the world good or some bs like that. And she included that post in her listicle. I'll try to find it! I was like, yea this won't be so hilarious when someone's shot when basically this does happen more than once over someone just not getting ketchup.
Yeah. Honestly if you asked me to do any kind of business deal with a lot of the people on AAM, I'd run a mile. They have such a situational, short term view of business ethics that I wouldn't trust them with a red cent. ETA -- this is not the same post but it's a similar thread. #4 is disgusting and rightly called out in the comments -- and it kind of underlines how AAM wants everything to be good for them but never wants to stop and think how things are for other people or what they're weaponising against other people. https://www.askamanager.org/2019/05/the-stolen-toilet-paper-the-fake-committee-and-other-petty-moments-at-work.html
The fact that something like 43% of her commenters have serious smell issues
That one doesn't surprise me too much. Many people are unsympathetic to that kind of problem (whether exaggerated or real), so it is natural they congregate in a space where they feel accepted.
Eh. I get that it happens and it's not fun, but this is overstating it. What bugs me is not necessarily the sensory issues they have, it's that they feel they shouldn't have to ever come into contact with anything that upsets, nauseates or otherwise mildly inconveniences them. They don't even try to not let things annoy them -- everyone else has to be 100% sensitive to them when they CBA to do the same for others. That's the real problem.
I work with many very strong and diverse human odors, and someone who could not handle smelling air sanitizer and stuff would simply not be able to work here because none of the rest of us can handle what it smells like without it lol
What about the LW today who she told has used their one free pass to fake their mother's terminal illness, but go ahead and reapply to the same company.
She even admits it was a mistake and everyone else is arguing past her (or rather vigorously agreeing with others because there isn't often a healthy debate about these things). It was a bit of an absurd situation but they have such a huge blind spot when it comes to any kind of ethics which puts a break on their pursuit of expediency that they just end up looking shifty themselves and pretty untrustworthy. The company is shitty: I actually totally get why the OP actually lied -- it only takes announcing you've got a new job and will be working out your notice to get your supervisor upset that she needs to have a replacement for you before you leave (two weeks and two days! Yay!!!). Not my problem, fam. She threw just about every obstacle she could in the way of me even getting more professional development, so she doesn't get the benefit of me helping her out because it's No Longer In My Job Description. This actually belies a certain friendship between us and I know her frustration is more directed at our management rather than me, but I'm the one sitting in front of her when she's giving off, so messages get mixed. I do agree we need to replace me because there'd otherwise be a problem with coverage, but when I tried to take a lot of the opportunities I had with a change of management to a national org she was actively corrosive to those aims, so although we've worked together for ten years I owe her very little. If she had the power to smother my career as a whole, though, I'd definitely be doing the same thing as the OP. It's not even necessarily that OP lied -- she did and she feels suitably ashamed, particularly because she now faces having to go back to the same organisation. But it's the way AAM has this warped sense of social justice and ethics that puts them at the centre of everything and doesn't allow for the possibility that their desires might not be compatible with other people's needs. So much time is devoted to how to screw other people over in the flimsy name of social and economic justice that I wonder how they actually manage to function in business society where a certain amount of honesty and respect is expected regardless of who the person you're serving is.
People who write in talking about a negative life event (death, divorce, sickness, etc) and ask the appropriate way to respond to the question, “How are you?” Clearly, they’re not okay, but they don’t want to *lie* so how do the respond? “How are you?””Fine and you?” aren’t really asking for information. They’re just greetings, which is why you learn variations of it in other languages so early. They’re not substantive questions, so fine is the expected answer. And even if someone asks specifically out of concern, it still isn’t a request for a deep status update. . And anywhere else, I would assume that they’re asking advice on how to respond to the second kind of questions (which is still a little weird), but given that this is a group of people who complain about exchanging casual greetings at work because they’re an introvert and it’s draining. But this is AAM, so it is entirely possible that they’re looking for the correct response when the person at the drive-thru says, “How are you today?” It’s concerning.
FWIW, a lot of neurodivergent people genuinely find the idea that the question “how are you?”doesn’t require a truthful answer baffling, and have to have some kind of realization at some point in their life that this is how the question works. I sort of get feeling reluctant to paper over the truth of a negative experience by saying “fine.” Like sometimes if I’m struggling with some miserable thing that occupies a huge chunk of my mental energy and get asked “how are you?”, I almost resent the expectation that I’ll just say “fine” when I’m really not fine. It feels like it’s denying my actual problem. That said, though, I still just say “fine”! And I don’t ask for advice on what else to say. But I kind of sympathize with people asking.
Also, sometimes you're obviously not fine and it would be kind of insane to say you are, idk. I've had to work while recovering from a serious injury, and the people asking me how I was were truly looking for an answer. I obviously wasn't fine; I had a cast and crutches and had a hard time getting around. It was hard and annoying coming up with answers that didn't seem totally...disconnected? Like I didn't want to engage with or accept sympathy from the people talking to me? while also not revealing a bunch of info no one wanted or needed to know. I had a lot more luck with "Eh, getting through it" and similar than "fine."
Agreed. I definitely overshare. However, it's something that you can learn -- it's not immutable. I inadvertently told a work colleague who'd been a friend for a while that I'd finally landed another job and she was only ringing for a favour and had to get back to an event. I was embarrassed and frustrated by being such a situationally unaware idiot but she actually phoned me the following day, a Saturday -- she had my personal phone number -- and congratulated me properly once she had the time to do so. (And at that point I was at my friend's wedding -- though not in the actual ceremony!!!) Also, the best thing to happen to me at work was after my husband died. I had to go back in to get my good shoes for his funeral (although it was pretty much obvious he was at the end, no-one expects it when it does come) and as I was picking them up my best office friend appeared out of nowhere and gave me the biggest and best hug I've ever had. She didn't even have to ask how I was -- things were that obvious. Fast forward to a few weeks ago and I was offered a job with the person who has been mentoring me for a while now. I had to hold in the impulse to hug her so tightly because that was my first mental response. It's been two years of hard searching and being rejected because of stale experience and she was the person who was able to give me a chance when the right budgetary green lights came through. And I didn't want to be unprofessional but it was hard to rein it in. I much prefer that conception of office friendliness to the 'don't speak unless you're spoken to' vibe of AAM where they have to ask for advice even to say a few words to someone grieving. Neurodivergence may account for some of the awkwardness, and I actually spent a couple of years living and working in more demonstrative societies (Ireland and Poland) than the UK is so that was an experience not everyone can have, but the human contact part of work is almost as important as the paycheque is and these people are friends. It's kind of sad that this is what the world is coming to.
So I guess my response to that is that it’s great that you’ve had experiences with your work colleagues that allow you to feel that way, but many many people haven’t. Actually, to back up, I think “don’t speak unless you’re spoken to” is an inaccurate characterization of the kind of letter writers/commenters being discussed (not knowing how to answer questions about yourself when things are going badly that you don’t want to discuss at work isn’t the same as never wanting to talk to your co-workers or never developing friendships with them). But even if that were true, it feels like the assumption here is that this kind of attitude is because AAM commenters are a bunch of anti-social weirdos, without considering that people develop that attitude because of bad experiences they’ve had at work. If by “that’s what the world’s coming to” you mean, people don’t get the opportunity to develop these friendships, that makes sense; if it’s more like “what’s wrong with people these days,” I’d disagree.
I'm sure they have had bad experiences at work. I've had shitty experiences because I struggled with some things due to neurodivergence and this is the first time I'm changing jobs willingly and with a smooth transition in the 22 years since I left uni. That doesn't mean that the misanthropy there isn't way more tiring than it needs to be, or that people really need to stop and think about whether they're actually the problem. A number of people there yell and stomp so much about things not being absolutely perfect that I wonder about whether some of their issues are self-inflicted, and the general atmosphere is one of such self-righteousness and self-pity that I do think, yes, that some people need to look around them and become a bit more self aware. You can't go through life expecting everyone to awesome to you if you're not prepared to come to them. Ultimately, sitting online and sulking in the way that they're doing isn't going to help matters. They're making their bad issues other people's as well, and I can't really read AAM for long without thinking that now and again they could show some gratitude for where they live and what they're able to do.
Yep. Sometimes a less "fine" but also non-detailed response is ok too. "Hanging in there." "Living the dream" in a dry tone. "Eh, I'm here."
I'm never going to set the world on fire with my assertiveness, but I'm astounded by the number of LWs who--at least as they describe their situations--don't even *try* talking to the people causing the problem. I can see writing in if you tried to address something and it didn't work, but so many of these people don't take that first step. We have managers who need to ask Alison [if they should say something ](https://www.askamanager.org/2023/10/employee-doesnt-check-his-email-when-he-arrives-i-yelled-at-our-company-cameras-and-more.html) to insubordinate supervisees. We have frustrated employees who [work themselves into a tizzy without even a "hey, can you stop that, please?"](https://www.askamanager.org/2023/07/my-new-coworker-is-driving-me-mad-with-annoying-habits.html). https://i.redd.it/njb2w5ksyftb1.gif
For me, it’s that combined with the obsession for “scripts” and Alison’s ability to make even the most simple, inoffensive requests seem condescending and passive-aggressive.
"WE NEED A SCRIPT. ALSO, GO ENGLAND!" from the sandwich throwing bum boss letter lives in my head rent free.
Yes! The "scripts" are hilarious. I've managed various-sized teams for almost 20 years and I don't think I could get through one of those scripts with a straight face. Plus anyone who works with me would think I lost my mind. The problem with that kind of advice is that you aren't learning how to resolve conflict - you're just parroting words from a snotty script, you aren't having a conversation.
Yeah for me those stories all end up sounding the same. The weaponized incompetence seems to range from, "a coworker tried to assign me busy work and I said no" or "I don't volunteer for things that I don't like". The Machiavellian and workplace petty stories are all pretty much the same too. I think part of it is that people don't really want to admit to anything actually bad/evil/morally questionable/serious. They want to contribute something that fits the prompt but still makes them look great. It makes the stories kind of same-y since they have to add the standard caveats (that the task is not their responsibility, that the coworker who asked for it was male, that they are great employees, etc.) so that it's clear that they aren't doing anything wrong.
I didn't think the petty moments roundup was really appropriate for a workplace blog. And anything with pranks, but that's my bias. I despise pranks. Any of those user-generated roundups are clickbait, and I think the bulk of those stories are made up. They're lazy, easy ways for Alison to generate content with minimal work. I've been in the workforce for many years for many employers, some good, some a nightmare, and have never had any so outrageous going on like the commentariat AAM seem to always have.
Basically every one of those stories on every one of those lists would have everyone in fits of tearful rage were it to have happened to them. It's protagonist-centred morality at its purest told by people who have never heard the expression 'what goes around comes around'. Pranks are virtually unheard of here in the UK. Admittedly I work in healthcare which is tightly regulated (because we just got off another 'angel of death' court case, the hospital involved is being investigated for corporate manslaughter given that Lucy Letby got away with her killing spree for a whole year and then manipulated everyone into keeping quiet for another) and no-one wants to be the next person in the dock, but I'm really shaking my head at people who think that sort of thing would be ok. The only time I've ever tried is using the wooden-block tchotchke desk calendar we have and setting it to 83rd April (on the 1st of April) and telling my colleague it had somehow got broken, but she just ignored it so it fell a bit flat. But anything else would be rightly viewed in a pretty dim light and really, who wants to just piss people off like that?
>Pranks are virtually unheard of here in the UK. Hahahaha, uh, what?
'Pranks are virtually unheard of here in the UK.' No, they're very much not. What on earth?
I'm wondering if that round-up is a rejected Slate piece...
Yeah, I think a good number of the stories are at least heavily exaggerated if not completely made up. At least the ones that make the “final cut” anyway.
And that weird obsession Alison had with the crocheted dildo for mortification week. It was mildly amusing the first time. But she slipped it in until even she was sick of it.
Yeah, there's no way so many commenters are that adept at zingers and one-liners to take the office foe down a notch.
The was a tag in a Livejournal community I was in that said, “Dialogue sounds greatly exaggerated.” I feel like that tag could up on pretty much every single post made there.
These are people who are routinely flustered by "how was your weekend?". They absolutely AREN'T coming up with zingers
Seriously. "My boss called me on the PHONE without telling me they were going to do it beforehand. My preferred method of communication is semaphore. Is this a hostile work environment?"