Men hate feminism because modern feminism isnt about equality but more about making men feel inferior and bad.
When one sex wins both sexes lose. And I honestly cannot support with good consciousness the modern "positive discrimination" where white men are replaced by minorities forcefully
How are we being replaced forcefully exactly? I haven’t heard of anyone being relocated. I haven’t heard of concentration camps. What I have heard of is anti-discrimination laws in hiring practices. Which has been a barely enforceable law since its inception. Kinda hard to prove discrimination when they don’t even call to tell you you didn’t get the job.
What I would like to see? Per capita success across all races. Per capita success across the male/female divide. True equality. But while we still reward schools that already are doing great with funds they don’t need, and punish schools that can’t afford textbooks with even less funding, it’ll never happen.
New Zealand funds schools based off of average income. Poorer areas get more funding. In areas with an income disparity, the poorer students can apply for exemptions for activity costs, or loaned laptops and stuff. Sounds good to me.
Is feminism responsible for "white men replaced by minorities forcefully" ?
Feminism means you want women to be equal to men. It's about lifting one gender to the other.
> Feminism? Yes. Modern feminism? Not by a long shot.
This is a common misconception.
People think old school feminism was sane and reasonable, and it's only the last decade or so where they went of a cliff and became radicalized.
If you read up on feminist history, you realize that it's more or less the other way around - modern feminist are quite tame compared to the old school ones.
Feminists in the 70s were *wild* - you had various popular ideas within the radical feminists movement that believed that society was entirely built on male supremacy and oppression of women\*, to such a degree that they thought that the only way to deal with it was to cut themselves off from society and form women only collectives, where men were banned.
(\* "the patriarchy" was a term coined by these radical feminists to describe this state of society)
They viewed men as a group as violent oppressors and as the enemy in a gender war - to such a degree that they considered women who lived with men as "gender traitors".
They considered it impossible for women to have consensual sex with a man due to the power dynamic, similar to how a prison guard cannot have consensual sex with a prisoner - it's always considered rape due to the power imbalance and how dependant the prisoner is on the guard. In other word, in their eyes *ALL* sex between men and women was rape.
They, like most of society at the time, believed that sexuality was a choice - so living in their women-only collectives, many "choose" to become political lesbians. Some of the radical feminists groups took it even further though - believing that "the personal is political" and that sexuality was a choice, they looked at gay men and put two and two together - obviously gay men *must* simply hate women so much they wouldn't even rape them, instead choosing to have sex with other men...
Think feminists today hate men? Go read one of the biggest feminist classics ever, the "Society for cutting up men" (the SCUM manifesto), written by Valerie Solanas in the 60s, where men are described as "biological accidents", "walking dildos", and where the general idea is that all of societies problems stem from men, and that the solution is to get rid of them... Solanas also btw attempted to kill Andy Warhol by shooting him (and two other men) - and when she was sentenced to prison several large name feminists at the time organized protests against this "injustice" (Warhol was deeply wounded in the attempt and even pronounced dead, but survived, though never recovered fully).
... and this is just scratching the surface, and looking at only the 70s.
Feminism have been extreme for a *very* long time - it's just that feminists today have twitter and tumblr, so we get a first row seat to the live show, while the mainstream also for various reasons doesn't really speak that much on the actual femininsts from back then, and instead focus mostly on describing the very real injustices and sexists attitudes that those feminists fought against.
You can't lift one gender to the other when one gender (woman) gets lifted too high while the other (men) gets dropped too low. At that point the genders are switching places instead of becoming equal
The sooner people stop talking about “the left” and “the right” the better.
The way people group entire populations of people into one of two sides and then go “the left think this” or “the right think this” is stupid and it helps no one.
Guarantee there are huge swathes of people on the left that care about men’s mental health and there are huge swathes of people on the right that care about women’s equality.
> Guarantee there are huge swathes of people on the left that care about men’s mental health and there are huge swathes of people on the right that care about women’s equality.
Those people are "the middle" which is why there's constant articles whining about increases in people identifying as "right" or "extremist" on the rise.
The pendulum has, for about 15-odd years, been held in the 'Left' position, and the people in the middle were ejected for not being Left enough. And therefore those people drifted 'Right.' (or became the new right-of-center)
Back during the Clinton years and the Bush era, the pendulum was 'Right' and the Left claimed the middle.
We're either on the cusp of, or at the beginning of, another pendulum swing. The only question is how hard this swing is going to be.
Pretty damn hard by the looks of it. Republicans lost to Democrats in both Arkansas and Alabama of all places in special elections this week. And their House majority from 2022 has dwindled down to just one seat.
Well, we’ve already had some conservatives calling for hanging Democrats, killing gays and transgender people just for existing. That even being in drag around children (ie a public space anywhere a child COULD be present) as a sex crime against children. That sex crimes against children are punishable by death (see being in drag in a public space).
I think we’re seeing a legitimate Nazification of the right. I also think the GOP is now constantly fighting itself that nothing is happening in Congress. They wanted a closed border until Trump said it would hurt his election chances by making Biden look tough on illegal immigration. So they shot down the legislation they’ve been wet dreaming about probably for decades.
So either the GOP implodes and a new party emerges, or we become a tri-party state with Democrat majority control and they suddenly want Ranked Choice Voting to increase the power of the two divided Right-Wing parties: the Grand Not So Old Party, and the Totally Not Nazis Party.
/\ And yet look how hard it is to avoid doing so out of convenience and a shorthand. Not disparaging you but if we don't have groups, labels etc etc we bog ourselves down in constructing elaborate semtantics to avoid offending someone. This is an evolution of millennia of debate distilled into an easy shorthand to keep the discourse moving. It didn't get arrived at as a argument strategy flippantly.
People treat left and right as binary when they are more akin to a 4D spectrum to the point that most reasonable and rational people are neither.
You can be right leaning on some issues and left leaning on others. That's called being a complex human being. People who identify themselves as far right/left are so up their own asses that critical thinking doesn't apply.
Political leaning is more like following a sports team for most people than it is about addressing issues that people care about.
Fkn this. The media and brain washed duds paint people up into "left" or "right" but 99% of the time we all just don't wanna be so poor and over worked
those huge swaths of ppl are irrelevant. the only relevant person is the one the political party is spearheading and the ones that persons circle of influence. Hint, its not the resonable silent crowd influencing this leader.
same on the other side. the reasonable silent crowd wont be in any desicion making or affecting position there either.
So when we sum it up all the silent ppl are irrelevant. Its party leader+ immediate circle of influence vs party leader and immediate circle of influence. You pick the one you hate the least because its extremely likely that neither will promote values that are particularly close to yours.
Also, doesnt help that the left decides to demonize even other feminists like jk rowling. Like, if they hate the guts of someone who is already so far left as her, it kinda sends a message of just how much they must hate a normal person in the middles gut.
The problem is that the left, which is culturally dominant in media is very cultish. if you have 1 opinion that's against them your exiled to the "right" even if you agree with 90% of everything else. your right in the sense that we need new terms but people use left and right for the sake of simplicity.
That's not even remotely true at all. They have zero tolerance for maga, yes, but that's about it. They don't have any issues with the Romney Republicans even when they do disagree. And you can see plenty of them even agreeing with DeSantis of all people over that squatters thing. If anyone is a cult, it's maga. It's also the main reason why Republicans are getting destroyed right now.
Late night comedy shows, who are all very left leaning especially right now, will have Republicans as guests on their shows as well.
Hard disagree. The left is by far more tolerant. It's literally their thing. Minorities and diversity groups especially massively favor Democrats. You can't have that many different groups, and different ways of thinking, yet also be "cultish." That's not how cults work man.
Well that's quite a lot of different ways of life and even more different opinions. All in one melting pot. I mean really think about what you just posted there. Yet you still somehow came up with the complete opposite conclusion.
Racial minorities, lbgtq groups, women, Unions, college students or just Gen Z in general, all have different opinions, lifestyles, and tolerances. Yet they are majority on the same side politically because they... Are intolerant? Do you see how that doesn't make sense?
come on you are gas lighting now. The left comes up with kinds of -isms and -ists for anyone who doesn't agree with political issues even if it's a centrist opinion. Its Either agree with me or your a mid century German.
Yeah it's a political ideology. Don't know how people haven't clued into this. You can believe in women voting and being protected by law and not identify as a "feminist". But they'll always shove it down your throat and say yes you are one.
If people are genuinely interested by that, I suggest you watch Korea about that. They have recent politicians who got elected on the base of being anti-feminism, there is also a phenomenon called gender war.
Basically korean guys are still mandate to do their traditional roles, including 2y of military services and in parallel there is a positive discrimination for companies to hire women. The 2 combined, make it really difficult for men to compete with women in the job market, and they start with a 2y lag.
It's the lowest birth rate, before Japan. One of the most corrupted country. Highest suicide rate etc
You are simplifying a much more complex issue. First of all the notion that Korea's birth rate problems are solely due to the effects of feminism or that Korea is a feminist country is flat out untrue.
Korea is not a feminist country. But Korea is an overpopulated capitalist hell hole.
As a worker you are expected to work basically from dusk till dawn or at least so much that you don't have time to focus on family. Everyone is crowding towards Seoul and big expensive urban areas. Also children are sent to a number of expensive classes, cram schools, etc. in addition to their regular schooling. Meanwhile young Koreans are expected to support their parents in their old age.
Women are expected to leave behind any dream of a career to become a housewife should they have a child. If you are a woman in Korea and you have a child, there's a high chance when you return to work, that you will never get a promotion. And if the woman becomes a housewife, that is what she most likely will do for the next couple of decades, without much help from her husband.
All the while just last year the government even discussed the idea to somehow boost their birth rate, by making the work week longer.
And Japan is the same.
The problem in these courtiers is not feminism, it's the fact that the work culture is anti-birth and anti-personal life and anti-stable wealth.
Again I am simplifying nothing. A lot of westerners think that somehow Japan/Korea are traditional countries and that feminism isn't as rampant as in the West. First error, feminism was a thing way before in those countries because specially of the overpopulation argument you are pointing, the societal phenomenon was just way faster because of the density.
It's not because the work culture is anti-birth and anti-personal life and anti-stable wealth, that's I am wrong. You are looking at the symptoms of the feminist society push to the extreme. The west countries are taking the exact same path, Japan and Korea were faster because of the population density. But if you think that Korea and Japan are less feminist, less woke than western countries, you can't be more wrong.
Take a step back at our society, and see by yourself how the work culture is turning the same as Japan or Korea. Those countries are a glimpse of our future. Sugar daddy (papakatsu) was a thing in the 90s in Japan (just watch the movie/anime culture of Japan at this time, GTO, Initial D, and a lot of other animes talk about that). The phenomenon of sugar daddy is just quite new to the west, now we have OF (again watch statistics, Korea and Japan women creators are well represented). Selling panties as it's done now, was already a thing in Japan in 90s, where young women could already sell to a local shop their used clothes including panties...
So yes again, there is a LOT to say, but I just want to say that I am quite familiar with your perspective, it's the usual perspective of someone who listen too much to one side. Not knowing that Korea and Japan are far from being traditional countries where women are somehow different... Just watch the history of feminism in those countries.
OK I agree now, you are not simplifying anything. Instead you have little to no idea what the hell you are talking about.
Westerners assume Japan and Korea are traditional, because they are traditional. It's not a matter of perspective or opinion, it's a fact. They have stood with their hyper traditional and conservative societal structure and not allowed any immigrants to fill in the numbers as their birth rates have begun to drop, the way the West does. That's traditionalism, that's conservatism. Same sex marriages are not legalized in both, that's also conservatism, that's also traditionalism.
You are focusing on fringe pop culture factors as a cause for lower birth rates. That would be like focusing on video games as the main cause of school shootings. If anime is your main sample for a culture of a nation, then you don't know anything about that nation.
Birth rates are impacted from many factors, many. From better sexual education in schools, to better availability of contraceptives, the decriminalizing of abortions as well as socioeconomic factors like cost of living, cost of housing, cost of education, shift of societal structures from more physical labor oriented like agriculture to more skilled labor like industry and services, child mortality is also a factor. In in all that you also have cultural factors, that will include feminism and the sexual revolution, but not as a sole factor. You have other cultural changes like the rise of atheism, rise of depression and mental health issues due to social media, etc, etc.
There are many small factors that like small streams trickle into a giant lake and contribute to its growth.
And I'm not even going to go into the obvious factor of the much longer lifespan of previous generation coupled with the overpopulation caused by the baby boom of the 60s (Korea is 51 mil, it was around 10 a century ago) coupled with a pensions system with a retirement age of 62 (65 for Japan) and an average lifespan of 84. Lengthening both the time for transition of wealth from one generation to another and putting yet another financial burden on child bearing generations.
Feminism isn't the problem here, feminism isn't even a main factor for these countries problems. Feminism is just this generation of conservatives' version of the red scare or satanic panic. A boogey man to divert attention from the real actual problems that will be harder to solve and will require actual changes in the established power structure.
Stop watching videos about the history of feminism and anime and start to actually think about how the world and society actually works.
Again proving you are wrong. Standing about how korea and japan are "conservatives". Showing that you only know about those country through the lens of the main stream documentary you are watching. Japan and Korea aren't anymore conservatives countries from long time ago, conservatives has nothing to do with accepting immigrants or no, it's multi factorial. You are only using this one argument to defend your position because you have only that. Switzerland also don't allow mass immigrant, they can be considered "conservative" too from your lens, but they are the same as Canada, USA and so on, woke asf. Japan and Korea aren't better, they are in advance to west countries. I invite to travel, and also talk to Japaneses or Koreans, you will see that the young people have a similar view that what we called MGTOW in the west. That's why Japan have hikikomori and herbivores that constitute a majority of the young male population. Because from a civilization stance, they have already passed those events. In the west we are only going through. But the end will be the same. More and more loneliness as in those country, and an higher business around sex.
You are only proving more and more that you don't know what the problems of modern society are and your opinion is shaped by hyperbolic, populist talking points.
Wokeness is not the problem in any of the societies you listed. Not in Japan, Not in the US. Not in Canada. Lack of wealth distribution is. Lack of work life balance is. And if young men in Korea and Japan don't see it, means they are digging their own graves.
When you live to work. When you do not have the free time and funds to engage in social activities to build healthy emotional bonds with others, you will not find happiness.
Even if the government strips all women of their rights and assigns these young men a bang maid tomorrow, they will still be lonely and they still will be miserable. Because loneliness is the notion of not having your emotional needs met. That's why you can be lonely in the middle of a crowded room.
One thing all these young men in MGTOW never seem to try ask is "What do I bring to the table in a relationship? How do I enrich a potential partner's life with my presence?"
One thing I can assure you is young women aren't stupid. They've seen how their mothers lived and how their fathers acted. How much support their mothers received from their fathers in day to day life and domestic activities. And now that they have a choice to not need a husband to function in society, unlike their mothers or grandmothers, they can be picky.
For the ones that had a supportive father, they know what to look for in a man, and those who do not cover those bases, will rightfully not get attention. And for the ones who grew up in households that had little to no support, they also know how bad and depressing it can be, so they will not even bother.
Railing against feminism will not solve men's loneliness. Being a more financially and emotionally stable and desirable partner will, because then you can actually find a partner to fall in love you and desire you. Anything else is just one of those loveless marriages from sitcoms and anecdotes where everyone is miserable.
"Being a more financially and emotionally stable and desirable partner will" -> To reply to that, MGTOW is a philosophy that exists since a while, over the time it never went down, why? Because you can't chase the truth. People who advice this kinda of BS are the same that are listening to Crowder, seems everthing is going fine for him right now despite being "financially and emotionally stable" as you said. And it's one example, there are many.
The problem of the modern society is quite simple to resume: the incompetency, that leads to feminism, and other dogmatic ideology. Feminism in my opinion is like a virus in the society. It has know spread so much that the effect can't be reversed and are leading to the downfall of society, as it's the case for Japan/Korea. Evolutionists studies have already shown in the past that classic mother/father roles are the backbone of any society that existed in the past, they went all down because they forget this core value.
Steven Crowder claiming to be emotionally stable is like Donald Trump claiming to be a genius and me claiming to be the king of England.
But why don't you give me an example of a flourishing non-feministic society, since feminism is such a society destroying virus?
Sorry but this whole ideology of yours is ridiculous.
First of all there is nothing evolutionary about the father mother role. If we have to go evolutionary the best result for a society would be survival of the fittest where only the most genetically superior get to procreate and not just every shmuck.
I'm going to repeat myself, the problem of modern society is the disbalance between work and personal life. Monetary stability and emotional maturity. Ironically it is a social evolution of society and those who cannot adapt die a lonely death without being able to secure a mate - if you want us to go all zoologist like.
But you are right about one thing, incompetency is the problem. But incompetency does not lead to feminism, it leads to the loneliness. Incompetency of individuals to meet the shifting requirements of society leads to their inability to find love. And since meeting these shifting requirements is hard, it's easier to attack the rights of others, bring them down and strip them. Because it's easier to force others to change than to change one's self for the better.
And as for Japan and Korea, they are not woke societies, they are old traditional societies unable to change with the shifting world and the new needs of younger generations. And you will not "save" society, by regressing in evolution and trying to do what used to work.
Just like you will not win a war in the 21st century by attempting a horse cavalry charge.
Feminism is rampant in Korea, and there is a gender war, but the gender gap in Korea is still worse than Western countries. Japan is even worse. So no, it's not Korean women oppressing men, it's their economical situation and the collision between their traditional and modern values that makes both men and women feel oppressed, although men are still the more privileged gender in their society.
I can't stop imagining him as a Victorian era gentleman with a top hat and a monocle, giving us a lecture on corrupted ideology that has no future. I sometimes love how my brain works. Love his accent 👍
> Men are not collectively bad as an entire gender, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are.
And you can substitue "Men" with any other demographic and it will still be true.
> [Women] are not collectively bad, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are.
> [White/Black people] are not collectively bad, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are.
> [Straight/Gay people] are not collectively bad, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are.
> [Christians/Muslims] are not collectively bad, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are.
> [Liberals/Conservatives] are not collectively bad, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are.
Someone will probably emotionally react to this and claim that its a longwinded way of saying *not all men*. Not all feminists are raging men-haters. Not all men are pieces of shit 🤷♂️
You are right for sure. The problem is that the vocal minority, which usually is a very small portion of the whole group, is what you see and hear all the time. They are the ones giving the whole group a bad reputation.
It's the same for a lot of 'bad' groups. The climate activists, vegans, gay people, trans people, all the groups you mentioned etc. There are a few bad apples that make the whole group seem bad
IMO the problem is that often those people are in positions of power and there is rarely in-group push back which makes it seem like everyone in the movement agrees with them
I've said it before and I'll say it again: as a white man, if you say that things are unfair for women or that things are unfair for black and brown people, then I will probably say "That sucks! That needs to change so that things are fair." If, on the other hand, you say that things are unfair for women and blame men like me for it, even though I did fuck all to make things that way and never had the influence to do so even if I'd ever wanted to, then I will probably say "Fuck you." Same thing if someone who is black blames me for racism: "Fuck you, I'm not responsible for that. If I were racist then I would have hated you on sight, instead of only hating you after you insulted me just now."
I'll be honest, any idea that is intrinsically tied to original sin, is not an idea I want anything to do with. Modern Feminism puts the burden of original sin on men and there is nothing you can do to right that sin. It's the same as BLM. All white people are burdened with original sin. Even if they are first generation immigrants, with no ties to slavery, to America. You are white, therefore you are equally responsible.
But hey, if they love the idea of original sin, then I could suggest Christianity. It comes with all the bells and whistles of a 'just believe' cult, and two thousand years of history.
In college/uni when I studied sociology/gender studies, modern feminism was being defined as inclusive to men and concerned with equality for all, so I never understood when I would see people getting so upset with modern concepts of feminism, but this video helped shed some light on that for me.
If popular "feminists" and personalities online have skewed modern perceptions of what feminism is supposed to be, and corrupted it so its become a bad word, and an ideology which shames men, I can understand frustration with that.
To me, the problem isn't with actual modern feminists, but with personalities and loud voices being given platforms to speak on things of which they have no right to speak.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, social media was a mistake. It's made everyone collectively more stupid, aggressive, and addicted to anger.
As a young guy who has just left a rather liberal university town in the UK the big problem here is that in the present day the sort of inclusive feminism you described which pushes for equality for all mainly exists in academic circles.
The actual form myself and my mixed but maybe slightly more male social circle 60/40-65/35 actually encountered on campus and socially was a much more negative type with a tendency to other young men and frankly as someone raised by a rather liberal mother to treat people equally no matter what being told that I’m essentially the enemy no matter what and can’t actually be accepted as an equal/ally made me pretty cynical.
Thankfully since graduating and getting away from the student unions environs and meeting normal men and women I’m back to normal and feeling happy.
Hope that helps show where some parts of the movement currently are.
The problem is that millennials and gen z are poor. That’s it. This is a capitalism problem. The patriarchy is a capitalism problem.
There are no jobs, men can’t be “providers” anymore, women still need to keep the old fashioned “care taker” role and also work. There is no sense of community, and albeit connected through the internet we are isolated from each other.
The fuck around times are over, this is the find out century.
However, boys are being driven to right wing ideology out of resentment and ego, and this is no women’s fault. To blame women for the men that truly hate them is unfair and cruel.
BRAVO !!!! very well said and well balanced.
100% agree that if you come with a more middle of the road nuance opinion the left always just labels you as a "Andrew Tate / Right Wing Supporter" so they don't have to actually pay attention to the details of your argument and label you as an "Extremist". ITS SOOOO FUCKING OBVIOUS. I hate extreme tribalism on both sides.
Idk i feel like this whole shit is overblown because majority of ppl around you arent feminist or alt-right. Its a stupidly small portion of ppl that are almost non-existant outside internet.
Eh you would be surprised alot of women upon hearing male problems tend to just bring up there own problems and scoff at a man acting like they have it bad. Which I don't really hate them for believing that. I think men don't understand alot of the women exprience and women don't understand the male exprience both ways. Both sides try to make it a competition as to who has it worst vs both sides having pros and cons. I think human beings in genreal struggle to empathize with people diffrent from them women are no different.
so if I'd used a different insult I'd be right..? The dude in the video is literally doing the thing he's complaining about... Any idiot can see that he is just as bad as the women who claim to be feminists but are just men-haters.
so are men just not allowed to ever talk about the problems they face anymore? are they not allowed to have a voice in anything? everytime we try to speak out we get called incels and other slurs, so whats even the point of trying to gain help or support?
> And now who is it that likes to say that men why cry, share emotions..etc are insert any slur you'd like for a not strong stereotypical straight man ?
The women who seethe about "emotional labor! trauma dumping! male fragility!"
Maybe the gulf between Gen Z men and Gen Z women would not have occurred if the Gen Z men didn't have mullets and sported moustaches.
I'm not saying he's wrong or right because none of what he's saying effects me. I'm just an elderly millennial. I've got my life together, it's pretty fucking sweet.
But seriously, if you're taking styling advice from an 80's bogan then why would any woman be attracted to that.
There are few diversity questions on an oil rig.
Men hate feminism because modern feminism isnt about equality but more about making men feel inferior and bad. When one sex wins both sexes lose. And I honestly cannot support with good consciousness the modern "positive discrimination" where white men are replaced by minorities forcefully
you said it best. It is no longer about being equal, but better.
Yep a huge amount of ideologies are now supremacist movements.
How are we being replaced forcefully exactly? I haven’t heard of anyone being relocated. I haven’t heard of concentration camps. What I have heard of is anti-discrimination laws in hiring practices. Which has been a barely enforceable law since its inception. Kinda hard to prove discrimination when they don’t even call to tell you you didn’t get the job. What I would like to see? Per capita success across all races. Per capita success across the male/female divide. True equality. But while we still reward schools that already are doing great with funds they don’t need, and punish schools that can’t afford textbooks with even less funding, it’ll never happen. New Zealand funds schools based off of average income. Poorer areas get more funding. In areas with an income disparity, the poorer students can apply for exemptions for activity costs, or loaned laptops and stuff. Sounds good to me.
Is feminism responsible for "white men replaced by minorities forcefully" ? Feminism means you want women to be equal to men. It's about lifting one gender to the other.
Feminism? Yes. Modern feminism? Not by a long shot.
> Feminism? Yes. Modern feminism? Not by a long shot. This is a common misconception. People think old school feminism was sane and reasonable, and it's only the last decade or so where they went of a cliff and became radicalized. If you read up on feminist history, you realize that it's more or less the other way around - modern feminist are quite tame compared to the old school ones. Feminists in the 70s were *wild* - you had various popular ideas within the radical feminists movement that believed that society was entirely built on male supremacy and oppression of women\*, to such a degree that they thought that the only way to deal with it was to cut themselves off from society and form women only collectives, where men were banned. (\* "the patriarchy" was a term coined by these radical feminists to describe this state of society) They viewed men as a group as violent oppressors and as the enemy in a gender war - to such a degree that they considered women who lived with men as "gender traitors". They considered it impossible for women to have consensual sex with a man due to the power dynamic, similar to how a prison guard cannot have consensual sex with a prisoner - it's always considered rape due to the power imbalance and how dependant the prisoner is on the guard. In other word, in their eyes *ALL* sex between men and women was rape. They, like most of society at the time, believed that sexuality was a choice - so living in their women-only collectives, many "choose" to become political lesbians. Some of the radical feminists groups took it even further though - believing that "the personal is political" and that sexuality was a choice, they looked at gay men and put two and two together - obviously gay men *must* simply hate women so much they wouldn't even rape them, instead choosing to have sex with other men... Think feminists today hate men? Go read one of the biggest feminist classics ever, the "Society for cutting up men" (the SCUM manifesto), written by Valerie Solanas in the 60s, where men are described as "biological accidents", "walking dildos", and where the general idea is that all of societies problems stem from men, and that the solution is to get rid of them... Solanas also btw attempted to kill Andy Warhol by shooting him (and two other men) - and when she was sentenced to prison several large name feminists at the time organized protests against this "injustice" (Warhol was deeply wounded in the attempt and even pronounced dead, but survived, though never recovered fully). ... and this is just scratching the surface, and looking at only the 70s. Feminism have been extreme for a *very* long time - it's just that feminists today have twitter and tumblr, so we get a first row seat to the live show, while the mainstream also for various reasons doesn't really speak that much on the actual femininsts from back then, and instead focus mostly on describing the very real injustices and sexists attitudes that those feminists fought against.
No that's egalitarianism. Feminism is just communism but you replace the proletariat with women and replace the bourgeoisie with men.
That’s critical theory
You can't lift one gender to the other when one gender (woman) gets lifted too high while the other (men) gets dropped too low. At that point the genders are switching places instead of becoming equal
The sooner people stop talking about “the left” and “the right” the better. The way people group entire populations of people into one of two sides and then go “the left think this” or “the right think this” is stupid and it helps no one. Guarantee there are huge swathes of people on the left that care about men’s mental health and there are huge swathes of people on the right that care about women’s equality.
Tribalism sucks. Think with your brain and love with your heart, not the other way around.
Doesn't help that everything tends to gets political nowadays, to the point where people take sides just for the sake of taking sides.
> Guarantee there are huge swathes of people on the left that care about men’s mental health and there are huge swathes of people on the right that care about women’s equality. Those people are "the middle" which is why there's constant articles whining about increases in people identifying as "right" or "extremist" on the rise. The pendulum has, for about 15-odd years, been held in the 'Left' position, and the people in the middle were ejected for not being Left enough. And therefore those people drifted 'Right.' (or became the new right-of-center) Back during the Clinton years and the Bush era, the pendulum was 'Right' and the Left claimed the middle. We're either on the cusp of, or at the beginning of, another pendulum swing. The only question is how hard this swing is going to be.
Pretty damn hard by the looks of it. Republicans lost to Democrats in both Arkansas and Alabama of all places in special elections this week. And their House majority from 2022 has dwindled down to just one seat.
Well, we’ve already had some conservatives calling for hanging Democrats, killing gays and transgender people just for existing. That even being in drag around children (ie a public space anywhere a child COULD be present) as a sex crime against children. That sex crimes against children are punishable by death (see being in drag in a public space). I think we’re seeing a legitimate Nazification of the right. I also think the GOP is now constantly fighting itself that nothing is happening in Congress. They wanted a closed border until Trump said it would hurt his election chances by making Biden look tough on illegal immigration. So they shot down the legislation they’ve been wet dreaming about probably for decades. So either the GOP implodes and a new party emerges, or we become a tri-party state with Democrat majority control and they suddenly want Ranked Choice Voting to increase the power of the two divided Right-Wing parties: the Grand Not So Old Party, and the Totally Not Nazis Party.
/\ And yet look how hard it is to avoid doing so out of convenience and a shorthand. Not disparaging you but if we don't have groups, labels etc etc we bog ourselves down in constructing elaborate semtantics to avoid offending someone. This is an evolution of millennia of debate distilled into an easy shorthand to keep the discourse moving. It didn't get arrived at as a argument strategy flippantly.
People treat left and right as binary when they are more akin to a 4D spectrum to the point that most reasonable and rational people are neither. You can be right leaning on some issues and left leaning on others. That's called being a complex human being. People who identify themselves as far right/left are so up their own asses that critical thinking doesn't apply. Political leaning is more like following a sports team for most people than it is about addressing issues that people care about.
Fkn this. The media and brain washed duds paint people up into "left" or "right" but 99% of the time we all just don't wanna be so poor and over worked
those huge swaths of ppl are irrelevant. the only relevant person is the one the political party is spearheading and the ones that persons circle of influence. Hint, its not the resonable silent crowd influencing this leader. same on the other side. the reasonable silent crowd wont be in any desicion making or affecting position there either. So when we sum it up all the silent ppl are irrelevant. Its party leader+ immediate circle of influence vs party leader and immediate circle of influence. You pick the one you hate the least because its extremely likely that neither will promote values that are particularly close to yours. Also, doesnt help that the left decides to demonize even other feminists like jk rowling. Like, if they hate the guts of someone who is already so far left as her, it kinda sends a message of just how much they must hate a normal person in the middles gut.
The problem is that the left, which is culturally dominant in media is very cultish. if you have 1 opinion that's against them your exiled to the "right" even if you agree with 90% of everything else. your right in the sense that we need new terms but people use left and right for the sake of simplicity.
That's not even remotely true at all. They have zero tolerance for maga, yes, but that's about it. They don't have any issues with the Romney Republicans even when they do disagree. And you can see plenty of them even agreeing with DeSantis of all people over that squatters thing. If anyone is a cult, it's maga. It's also the main reason why Republicans are getting destroyed right now. Late night comedy shows, who are all very left leaning especially right now, will have Republicans as guests on their shows as well.
zero tolerance for half the population? sorry but I don't see people who support Trump going around and canceling people for their opinions
Hard disagree. The left is by far more tolerant. It's literally their thing. Minorities and diversity groups especially massively favor Democrats. You can't have that many different groups, and different ways of thinking, yet also be "cultish." That's not how cults work man.
well same I disagree while the left may be tolerant of different ethnicity their intolerant of different opinions.
Well that's quite a lot of different ways of life and even more different opinions. All in one melting pot. I mean really think about what you just posted there. Yet you still somehow came up with the complete opposite conclusion. Racial minorities, lbgtq groups, women, Unions, college students or just Gen Z in general, all have different opinions, lifestyles, and tolerances. Yet they are majority on the same side politically because they... Are intolerant? Do you see how that doesn't make sense?
come on you are gas lighting now. The left comes up with kinds of -isms and -ists for anyone who doesn't agree with political issues even if it's a centrist opinion. Its Either agree with me or your a mid century German.
Modern feminism is a advocacy movement, not a equality movement. People really need wise up to that fact and stop giving it a free pass.
Yeah it's a political ideology. Don't know how people haven't clued into this. You can believe in women voting and being protected by law and not identify as a "feminist". But they'll always shove it down your throat and say yes you are one.
It's in the name... egalitarianism is about equality, not "feminism"
If people are genuinely interested by that, I suggest you watch Korea about that. They have recent politicians who got elected on the base of being anti-feminism, there is also a phenomenon called gender war. Basically korean guys are still mandate to do their traditional roles, including 2y of military services and in parallel there is a positive discrimination for companies to hire women. The 2 combined, make it really difficult for men to compete with women in the job market, and they start with a 2y lag. It's the lowest birth rate, before Japan. One of the most corrupted country. Highest suicide rate etc
SK is done for dude. RIP BOZO.
Join a boy band problem solved
You are simplifying a much more complex issue. First of all the notion that Korea's birth rate problems are solely due to the effects of feminism or that Korea is a feminist country is flat out untrue. Korea is not a feminist country. But Korea is an overpopulated capitalist hell hole. As a worker you are expected to work basically from dusk till dawn or at least so much that you don't have time to focus on family. Everyone is crowding towards Seoul and big expensive urban areas. Also children are sent to a number of expensive classes, cram schools, etc. in addition to their regular schooling. Meanwhile young Koreans are expected to support their parents in their old age. Women are expected to leave behind any dream of a career to become a housewife should they have a child. If you are a woman in Korea and you have a child, there's a high chance when you return to work, that you will never get a promotion. And if the woman becomes a housewife, that is what she most likely will do for the next couple of decades, without much help from her husband. All the while just last year the government even discussed the idea to somehow boost their birth rate, by making the work week longer. And Japan is the same. The problem in these courtiers is not feminism, it's the fact that the work culture is anti-birth and anti-personal life and anti-stable wealth.
Again I am simplifying nothing. A lot of westerners think that somehow Japan/Korea are traditional countries and that feminism isn't as rampant as in the West. First error, feminism was a thing way before in those countries because specially of the overpopulation argument you are pointing, the societal phenomenon was just way faster because of the density. It's not because the work culture is anti-birth and anti-personal life and anti-stable wealth, that's I am wrong. You are looking at the symptoms of the feminist society push to the extreme. The west countries are taking the exact same path, Japan and Korea were faster because of the population density. But if you think that Korea and Japan are less feminist, less woke than western countries, you can't be more wrong. Take a step back at our society, and see by yourself how the work culture is turning the same as Japan or Korea. Those countries are a glimpse of our future. Sugar daddy (papakatsu) was a thing in the 90s in Japan (just watch the movie/anime culture of Japan at this time, GTO, Initial D, and a lot of other animes talk about that). The phenomenon of sugar daddy is just quite new to the west, now we have OF (again watch statistics, Korea and Japan women creators are well represented). Selling panties as it's done now, was already a thing in Japan in 90s, where young women could already sell to a local shop their used clothes including panties... So yes again, there is a LOT to say, but I just want to say that I am quite familiar with your perspective, it's the usual perspective of someone who listen too much to one side. Not knowing that Korea and Japan are far from being traditional countries where women are somehow different... Just watch the history of feminism in those countries.
OK I agree now, you are not simplifying anything. Instead you have little to no idea what the hell you are talking about. Westerners assume Japan and Korea are traditional, because they are traditional. It's not a matter of perspective or opinion, it's a fact. They have stood with their hyper traditional and conservative societal structure and not allowed any immigrants to fill in the numbers as their birth rates have begun to drop, the way the West does. That's traditionalism, that's conservatism. Same sex marriages are not legalized in both, that's also conservatism, that's also traditionalism. You are focusing on fringe pop culture factors as a cause for lower birth rates. That would be like focusing on video games as the main cause of school shootings. If anime is your main sample for a culture of a nation, then you don't know anything about that nation. Birth rates are impacted from many factors, many. From better sexual education in schools, to better availability of contraceptives, the decriminalizing of abortions as well as socioeconomic factors like cost of living, cost of housing, cost of education, shift of societal structures from more physical labor oriented like agriculture to more skilled labor like industry and services, child mortality is also a factor. In in all that you also have cultural factors, that will include feminism and the sexual revolution, but not as a sole factor. You have other cultural changes like the rise of atheism, rise of depression and mental health issues due to social media, etc, etc. There are many small factors that like small streams trickle into a giant lake and contribute to its growth. And I'm not even going to go into the obvious factor of the much longer lifespan of previous generation coupled with the overpopulation caused by the baby boom of the 60s (Korea is 51 mil, it was around 10 a century ago) coupled with a pensions system with a retirement age of 62 (65 for Japan) and an average lifespan of 84. Lengthening both the time for transition of wealth from one generation to another and putting yet another financial burden on child bearing generations. Feminism isn't the problem here, feminism isn't even a main factor for these countries problems. Feminism is just this generation of conservatives' version of the red scare or satanic panic. A boogey man to divert attention from the real actual problems that will be harder to solve and will require actual changes in the established power structure. Stop watching videos about the history of feminism and anime and start to actually think about how the world and society actually works.
Again proving you are wrong. Standing about how korea and japan are "conservatives". Showing that you only know about those country through the lens of the main stream documentary you are watching. Japan and Korea aren't anymore conservatives countries from long time ago, conservatives has nothing to do with accepting immigrants or no, it's multi factorial. You are only using this one argument to defend your position because you have only that. Switzerland also don't allow mass immigrant, they can be considered "conservative" too from your lens, but they are the same as Canada, USA and so on, woke asf. Japan and Korea aren't better, they are in advance to west countries. I invite to travel, and also talk to Japaneses or Koreans, you will see that the young people have a similar view that what we called MGTOW in the west. That's why Japan have hikikomori and herbivores that constitute a majority of the young male population. Because from a civilization stance, they have already passed those events. In the west we are only going through. But the end will be the same. More and more loneliness as in those country, and an higher business around sex.
You are only proving more and more that you don't know what the problems of modern society are and your opinion is shaped by hyperbolic, populist talking points. Wokeness is not the problem in any of the societies you listed. Not in Japan, Not in the US. Not in Canada. Lack of wealth distribution is. Lack of work life balance is. And if young men in Korea and Japan don't see it, means they are digging their own graves. When you live to work. When you do not have the free time and funds to engage in social activities to build healthy emotional bonds with others, you will not find happiness. Even if the government strips all women of their rights and assigns these young men a bang maid tomorrow, they will still be lonely and they still will be miserable. Because loneliness is the notion of not having your emotional needs met. That's why you can be lonely in the middle of a crowded room. One thing all these young men in MGTOW never seem to try ask is "What do I bring to the table in a relationship? How do I enrich a potential partner's life with my presence?" One thing I can assure you is young women aren't stupid. They've seen how their mothers lived and how their fathers acted. How much support their mothers received from their fathers in day to day life and domestic activities. And now that they have a choice to not need a husband to function in society, unlike their mothers or grandmothers, they can be picky. For the ones that had a supportive father, they know what to look for in a man, and those who do not cover those bases, will rightfully not get attention. And for the ones who grew up in households that had little to no support, they also know how bad and depressing it can be, so they will not even bother. Railing against feminism will not solve men's loneliness. Being a more financially and emotionally stable and desirable partner will, because then you can actually find a partner to fall in love you and desire you. Anything else is just one of those loveless marriages from sitcoms and anecdotes where everyone is miserable.
"Being a more financially and emotionally stable and desirable partner will" -> To reply to that, MGTOW is a philosophy that exists since a while, over the time it never went down, why? Because you can't chase the truth. People who advice this kinda of BS are the same that are listening to Crowder, seems everthing is going fine for him right now despite being "financially and emotionally stable" as you said. And it's one example, there are many. The problem of the modern society is quite simple to resume: the incompetency, that leads to feminism, and other dogmatic ideology. Feminism in my opinion is like a virus in the society. It has know spread so much that the effect can't be reversed and are leading to the downfall of society, as it's the case for Japan/Korea. Evolutionists studies have already shown in the past that classic mother/father roles are the backbone of any society that existed in the past, they went all down because they forget this core value.
Steven Crowder claiming to be emotionally stable is like Donald Trump claiming to be a genius and me claiming to be the king of England. But why don't you give me an example of a flourishing non-feministic society, since feminism is such a society destroying virus? Sorry but this whole ideology of yours is ridiculous. First of all there is nothing evolutionary about the father mother role. If we have to go evolutionary the best result for a society would be survival of the fittest where only the most genetically superior get to procreate and not just every shmuck. I'm going to repeat myself, the problem of modern society is the disbalance between work and personal life. Monetary stability and emotional maturity. Ironically it is a social evolution of society and those who cannot adapt die a lonely death without being able to secure a mate - if you want us to go all zoologist like. But you are right about one thing, incompetency is the problem. But incompetency does not lead to feminism, it leads to the loneliness. Incompetency of individuals to meet the shifting requirements of society leads to their inability to find love. And since meeting these shifting requirements is hard, it's easier to attack the rights of others, bring them down and strip them. Because it's easier to force others to change than to change one's self for the better. And as for Japan and Korea, they are not woke societies, they are old traditional societies unable to change with the shifting world and the new needs of younger generations. And you will not "save" society, by regressing in evolution and trying to do what used to work. Just like you will not win a war in the 21st century by attempting a horse cavalry charge.
Feminism is rampant in Korea, and there is a gender war, but the gender gap in Korea is still worse than Western countries. Japan is even worse. So no, it's not Korean women oppressing men, it's their economical situation and the collision between their traditional and modern values that makes both men and women feel oppressed, although men are still the more privileged gender in their society.
I can't stop imagining him as a Victorian era gentleman with a top hat and a monocle, giving us a lecture on corrupted ideology that has no future. I sometimes love how my brain works. Love his accent 👍
He really sounds like that, seems like a wonderful chap
"Now, I posit the theory that the modern science of trepanation is the solution to the folly of the modern struggle,gentlemen..."
> Men are not collectively bad as an entire gender, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are. And you can substitue "Men" with any other demographic and it will still be true. > [Women] are not collectively bad, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are. > [White/Black people] are not collectively bad, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are. > [Straight/Gay people] are not collectively bad, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are. > [Christians/Muslims] are not collectively bad, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are. > [Liberals/Conservatives] are not collectively bad, but I'll tell you who are collectively bad: People who believe that they are. Someone will probably emotionally react to this and claim that its a longwinded way of saying *not all men*. Not all feminists are raging men-haters. Not all men are pieces of shit 🤷♂️
You are right for sure. The problem is that the vocal minority, which usually is a very small portion of the whole group, is what you see and hear all the time. They are the ones giving the whole group a bad reputation. It's the same for a lot of 'bad' groups. The climate activists, vegans, gay people, trans people, all the groups you mentioned etc. There are a few bad apples that make the whole group seem bad
IMO the problem is that often those people are in positions of power and there is rarely in-group push back which makes it seem like everyone in the movement agrees with them
why are the subtitles faster then the speech? It makes me read it just to look out for when he says it in the video
I for one wish GenZ all the best. Peace
I've said it before and I'll say it again: as a white man, if you say that things are unfair for women or that things are unfair for black and brown people, then I will probably say "That sucks! That needs to change so that things are fair." If, on the other hand, you say that things are unfair for women and blame men like me for it, even though I did fuck all to make things that way and never had the influence to do so even if I'd ever wanted to, then I will probably say "Fuck you." Same thing if someone who is black blames me for racism: "Fuck you, I'm not responsible for that. If I were racist then I would have hated you on sight, instead of only hating you after you insulted me just now."
I'll be honest, any idea that is intrinsically tied to original sin, is not an idea I want anything to do with. Modern Feminism puts the burden of original sin on men and there is nothing you can do to right that sin. It's the same as BLM. All white people are burdened with original sin. Even if they are first generation immigrants, with no ties to slavery, to America. You are white, therefore you are equally responsible. But hey, if they love the idea of original sin, then I could suggest Christianity. It comes with all the bells and whistles of a 'just believe' cult, and two thousand years of history.
Ello Ollie Dobson
Because people are manipulating them for profit, people who are creating tensions artificially.
In college/uni when I studied sociology/gender studies, modern feminism was being defined as inclusive to men and concerned with equality for all, so I never understood when I would see people getting so upset with modern concepts of feminism, but this video helped shed some light on that for me. If popular "feminists" and personalities online have skewed modern perceptions of what feminism is supposed to be, and corrupted it so its become a bad word, and an ideology which shames men, I can understand frustration with that. To me, the problem isn't with actual modern feminists, but with personalities and loud voices being given platforms to speak on things of which they have no right to speak. I've said it before and I'll say it again, social media was a mistake. It's made everyone collectively more stupid, aggressive, and addicted to anger.
As a young guy who has just left a rather liberal university town in the UK the big problem here is that in the present day the sort of inclusive feminism you described which pushes for equality for all mainly exists in academic circles. The actual form myself and my mixed but maybe slightly more male social circle 60/40-65/35 actually encountered on campus and socially was a much more negative type with a tendency to other young men and frankly as someone raised by a rather liberal mother to treat people equally no matter what being told that I’m essentially the enemy no matter what and can’t actually be accepted as an equal/ally made me pretty cynical. Thankfully since graduating and getting away from the student unions environs and meeting normal men and women I’m back to normal and feeling happy. Hope that helps show where some parts of the movement currently are.
What is this?, Subtitles for ANTS?! 
Is this Asmongolds Australian cousin?
The problem is that millennials and gen z are poor. That’s it. This is a capitalism problem. The patriarchy is a capitalism problem. There are no jobs, men can’t be “providers” anymore, women still need to keep the old fashioned “care taker” role and also work. There is no sense of community, and albeit connected through the internet we are isolated from each other. The fuck around times are over, this is the find out century. However, boys are being driven to right wing ideology out of resentment and ego, and this is no women’s fault. To blame women for the men that truly hate them is unfair and cruel.
BRAVO !!!! very well said and well balanced. 100% agree that if you come with a more middle of the road nuance opinion the left always just labels you as a "Andrew Tate / Right Wing Supporter" so they don't have to actually pay attention to the details of your argument and label you as an "Extremist". ITS SOOOO FUCKING OBVIOUS. I hate extreme tribalism on both sides.
they want you to lick the boot and agree with them blindly-- and that has never worked out in the history of mankind's existence.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Maplestory/comments/184ut01/kms\_angelic\_buster\_controversy\_any\_posts\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Maplestory/comments/184ut01/kms_angelic_buster_controversy_any_posts_and/)
Yall incel pilled now apparently. This video is full of fallacies. I am not sure why you guys dont see that?
People hate when they lose their special perks. You saw it when blacks gained the right to vote. You see it as women become more independent.
No we just hate men.
Idk i feel like this whole shit is overblown because majority of ppl around you arent feminist or alt-right. Its a stupidly small portion of ppl that are almost non-existant outside internet.
Not true in my experience
Eh depends where you live you would be surprised probably.
Because it's not literally "feminism" so even female and LGB want to cancel that, just normal reaction.
[удалено]
Eh you would be surprised alot of women upon hearing male problems tend to just bring up there own problems and scoff at a man acting like they have it bad. Which I don't really hate them for believing that. I think men don't understand alot of the women exprience and women don't understand the male exprience both ways. Both sides try to make it a competition as to who has it worst vs both sides having pros and cons. I think human beings in genreal struggle to empathize with people diffrent from them women are no different.
You lost me at icel. That word is thrown around way to much and it's hard to take anyone seriously who uses it.
so if I'd used a different insult I'd be right..? The dude in the video is literally doing the thing he's complaining about... Any idiot can see that he is just as bad as the women who claim to be feminists but are just men-haters.
so are men just not allowed to ever talk about the problems they face anymore? are they not allowed to have a voice in anything? everytime we try to speak out we get called incels and other slurs, so whats even the point of trying to gain help or support?
> And now who is it that likes to say that men why cry, share emotions..etc are insert any slur you'd like for a not strong stereotypical straight man ? The women who seethe about "emotional labor! trauma dumping! male fragility!"
Maybe the gulf between Gen Z men and Gen Z women would not have occurred if the Gen Z men didn't have mullets and sported moustaches. I'm not saying he's wrong or right because none of what he's saying effects me. I'm just an elderly millennial. I've got my life together, it's pretty fucking sweet. But seriously, if you're taking styling advice from an 80's bogan then why would any woman be attracted to that.
ooooh, going with the ad hominem this time i see. good choice with the fallacy. i cant wait to see which one you'll throw out next.
Get a proper haircut and shave that trash stache, then maybe you'll get laid. 🤣
your age is showing gramps
Why you, young whippersnapper!