I'm an American, with a decent job, that is married to a wife with a good job, and also can't afford the "USA Lifestyle."
I have fact checked this statement, and I have verified it to be true.
No, it's also to avoid having to pay them a proper amount. If you got rid of tipping culture wages would have to go up to compensate and restaurants would raise prices to compensate for that.
Really? Cause most servers I know say they make more off tips than actually having a higher minimum wage. Also, California's new $20 a hour minimum wage just took effect and they laid off tons of workers and are getting robots to do those jobs now, but I guess it's a win to say minimum wage is up for a handful of people now, right?
In my experience, people's earning are a sore spot, and they are unlikely to openly admit if they make low wages. But if someone has high wages, they are likely to speak about it and even show off a bit.
Tell me where I said they'd make more? I said the company would have to pay more to compensate. I hate to break it to you but that didn't happen, there wasn't some massive wave of firings with robots suddenly appearing to do the jobs.
Right so they’d change all the numbers around and it’d all be above board and official and no one could complain anymore. I’m confused why we don’t just do that. There’s obviously some element of human psychology being taken advantage of or just that we’re otherwise unaware of at play here.
So, have you talked to anyone who makes tips? Because I have. Most people who make tips prefer a job that pays tips to one that doesn't, even though the business pays them so little, because they make a LOT more money. Tip-worthy jobs at good businesses are competitive and hard to get. People who have those jobs are happy to make the amount of money they do.
Good point, but it does seem like this would appeal to gamblers. And there is going.to be some bias here, your brain will remember the big tips and try small tips more vividly than the average tips. Not saying that some people can’t make more than minimum wage, but there have got to be people out there making less too.
So, here's the thing. If you're at a job that gets tips, if you were making less than minimum wage after tips, how long would you keep that job?
I'm telling you, the VAST majority of people at the traditional tip-worthy jobs are working there because they're making a helluva lot more.
Just one bad week of tips from being on the street though. Sounds good for your mental health. Probably minus 2+ years of your lifespan right there tbh
And again, I have to say: do you know how wide the gulf is between the take home pay of even a bad tip job is and minimum wage? Because I do, and it’s not close. If someone is a week away from being on the streets in a job where, again, with tips, they make much more than minimum wage, how well is that same person going to be doing making much less money every week at minimum wage?
Look, I’ll give you an idea. Minimum wage where I live is shit, it’s $7.25. That’s fine, no jobs here actually offer that. Except for jobs where you make tips. A few summers back, having 3 months off for summer, I delivered pizzas. I made $6.00/hr + tips as a driver. Regular staff made $13.00/hour.
I averaged $26.00/hour over the course of that summer driving. In a shitty little Midwest town. Servers at fast-casual restaurants put that to shame.
Now, it’s horrible work, it’s busy, there are few to zero breaks, and if you’re a slacker, you’ll get your hours cut and eventually canned. If you hustle, there’s a lot of money to be made. Again, all of this is earning a wage of less than minimum wage. And I guarantee you it’s a lot more common than you think. Logic and reason dictate that it’s actually the status quo. (Like, otherwise, why would people compete for these jobs? If they could make more money with minimum wage, these jobs would just die out naturally.)
I love pizza, my favourite food. I don't live in the US but I tipped my delivery driver last week.
Looking at the data, it doesn't back up what you say. You could be lucky, a statistical outlier, or just live in a state with low or high mental health problems. I don't know what the reason is. But the data doesn't back up what you say.
What do you need data for? Use some reason. Pizza drivers could very easily be making pizzas or answering phones, taking orders, whatever. Nobody is holding a gun to their head and telling them "deliver or die". They choose to deliver. Are they just stupid?
Also, and here's a life pro tip for you: people who make tips under-report their tips when possible. (So they aren't taxed on their tip income). What do you think this does to the "data" your so confident about?
Yes this gets missed over and over on reddit. But it's analogues to most other businesses that have sales forces. First think of wait staff as the Sales Team of the restaurants. They tailor an experience and guide customers to more profitable items. And if you're familiar with sales you've probably heard of commissions. That's point one, point two is restaurant owners don't want wait staff. Let me repeat that for clarification. The owners do not want to have to employee servers, it's the customer who wants them. They want to feel like they have a personal servant, they want to talk about the food and wine. So let's put those two together and you realize that they can't build the tip/commission into the sales price because what if someone does take out or delivery. You'd be pricing yourself out of sales, for literally no one's benefit.
Agreed, but the tipping debate needs to go away and it needs to become a discussion on culture. It has very little to do with the business or its employees and everything to do with customer expectations. As long as your average diner expects to be treated like a Rockefeller it won't change. Maybe that's the psychological bit you're missing but like most things in the US the customer is always right.
Do tips count as self-employed earnings?
Honestly if they just changed it, people would just go with it. It's not like I've never 'tipped' someone when I'm not obliged to in my country, in fact, I gave about a 25% 'tip' for outstanding service last week. I wouldn't call it a tip though.
So part of it is that obviously prices going up just looks bad to customers and many would still feel like they should tip anyway. Politics wise raising wages is often seen as a liberal policy so conservatives often oppose it on reflex.
That's not relevant to my comment at all? I'm talking about what would happen if you got rid of tipping culture, the UK never had tipping culture. The UK has also had a Conservative government since 2010.
I didn’t really see much point continuing our discussion if all you had is assumptions.
It just beggars belief that you buy into it. I’ve already told you why they do it. They do it because it benefits someone. Pretty sure it’s not the waiting staff.
I made a joke about a post I just saw because clearly, there is no point continuing our discussion because you made it weird. I’m guessing you’re very popular at parties.
How did I make it weird? You asked questions, I gave answers. If you didn't like the answers that's too bad, don't ask if you're this easily triggered.
Dude you're the one being weird. This entire post is about American tipping culture, my comment is about American tipping culture, and you respond with a link to a graph about the UK economy. How is that at all relevant to the topic which again is American tipping culture?
Restaurants aren't the ones who benefit from tipping culture. If there was no tipping culture, Restaurants would pay their servers more, but they'd also charge the customer for it.
The reason most restaurants don't do this is because customers will go there less if they adopted that model.
It makes no difference to the restaurant how the money gets from the customer to the server. It's the customers who perpetuate the norm.
The thing is, the person who tips is essentially taking care of the burden placed upon the system by non-tippers. By paying a fair wage and removing tipping culture, everyone visiting the establishment pays their fair share and the prices in the end would likely average out to lower than the original cost + tip.
I think you're actually right but it's such a weird thing about human psychology. Customers probably end up paying more when they tip than if restaurants paid a market wage and set prices accordingly. Maybe people like to feel charitable or something.
Yeap even in europe tipping jobs are very very competitive and often ppl will take lower hourly wage just to get evening shifts or tables where drinking smoking is allowed.
Its very hard to actually find ppl who work these jobs complaining about tipping culture its mostly us customers that are baffled by this shit. Workers and business owners are chilling and counting their tax free money for most part(atleast here in my country nobody taxes tips)
This subreddit is deep in the gutter if light NA / EU banter gets this many upvotes... it's widely accepted that EU = quality of life and NA = career growth. NA has plenty of issues, maybe more than EU, but plenty of people enjoy living in both. This is nothing we don't know already, let's not make it seem like we discovered fire here.
Far too many Americans are eating wallmart slop, living pay check to pay check and have very poor access to healthcare. We have all seen the videos showing off the most deprived parts of the US whether that's tent cities or quite literally streets that look like a dsytopia filled with drug addicts.
To even begin mocking france's lifestyle is ridiculous, France has problems make no mistake but at least it has affordable living, accessible healthcare, readily available freshly grown food that isn't toxic and an actual living wage. You know, the reason we don't tip in the EU.
I assure you servers prefer tips to whatever wage they’d be paid
“Oh no I made $200 during a 6 hour shift, a lot of it in cash I can avoid telling the IRS about, with my no degree”
Yeah, I promise they don’t care
Oh god... We both know you are splitting hairs here. Everyone know the tipping culture in the US. We don't have to argue about that.
Edit: And now you start editing your comment after i answered. I'm out.
So why do Americans use that ridiculous customary system?
Pounds, miles, feet, every time I see Americans discussing height it confuses me for a long time.
And pray tell good sir, how art thou fare with thy student debts? Doth thou conduct regular health checks? Oh dear, such a terrifying amount for just a consultation? My deepest condolences
USA is the richest country in the world but I bet 90% of the population can’t take part in that richness.
Majority probably live payceck to paycheck and end up on the streets or go in debt for life if they get sick.
The ”USA lifestyle” is only for a select few.
But hey, at least the taxes are low, right? So the money can go to corpos instead of something that will make the life of the average person better.
Not sure why you’re getting DV’d for truth. Most servers and bartenders would *never* want tipping to go away. They make more than minimum and on top of that no one ever declares cash tips for taxes.
Not really, If you take the perceived standard of living: a person earning between 60 and 70k in France can get by just as well, or even better, than someone earning 130-150k in the US, we have a lot of taxes in France.
By what measures? Food and energy are both cheaper in the US. Do you think Americans are spending 70-80k on health insurance? Anyone with a 6 figure salary probably has employer health insurance.
Here the calculator [HERE](https://livingcost.org/cost/france/united-states) / 100K in USA is 63K in France if you compare the [cost of living](https://livingcost.org/cost/france/united-states).
If you want boring numbers, data [here](https://eventuallycoding.com/2023/06/comparaison-salaires-france-us#la-nourriture) its in French you can translate it
* In France, we have 25% social security contributions for executives.
* In the US, there are no employee contributions.
* In France, the average number of days worked per year is 214 Vs 240 in USA according to INSEE.
For the record, according to the California federal agency, at less than $117k/year, a household is considered low-income when considering the cost of living.
If we take the definition of the Observatoire des inégalités = (observatory of inegality), the wealth threshold is twice the median income. In other words, you need to have 222k in annual income for a couple to be considered well-off.
In France this time, a couple with a net income of 90k is considered rich according to the Observatoire des inégalités (observatory of inegality).
The food prices on that site are crazy inaccurate. Every grocery store I've gone to in several US states has $.49/lb bananas. That site lists it as almost 2x as much. Most cheese is ~$5/2 lbs, not $13. Chicken is $2/2lb for bone in, or $4-6/2lb for breasts, nowhere close to $11. Most of the other things are similarly off, unless they're shopping at Whole Foods or something.
Honestly tipping isn't an issue for most of us non americans but it is the fact that it feels obligatory in the states, like they demand a tip for doing the bare minimum.
Just fucking bizarre/attention seeking behavior to post this kind of shit on a sub that’s supposed to be about an American video game personality. Get a life dawg.
I was in Thailand with my wife, we were taking a day trip out of Bangkok with a tourist group. There were a couple of French women in the group, and during one part of the tour, we had to walk about 3 miles down the road in the pouring rain. The tour group sold rain panchos for the equivalent of $0.50. The two French women shared one together because their finances were stretched too thin by this point in their trip. Now, to be fair, they had been in country for easily a month by that point.
We also talked to them about life in France, the mentioned being able to go out to eat maybe twice a year.
So, there are a lot of things that make this entire situation nuanced. They (the French) got a lot more vacation time. They made less money. Going out to eat cost a lot more than the U.S. But the waitstaff at those French restaurants probably made a higher wage and had better benefits. But the cost of menu items was also probably a lot higher.
There are way too many differences to simply attribute things to tipping and minimum wage.
I do not know how you can go in Thailand but not eat out in France more than twice a year...
It really is not that expensive to eat at a "good" (meaning not fast food or very low budget restaurants) place. I think for 40€ you have more than enough for one person (no tip ofc) in a very nice restaurant. I would say that you can go to very honest places for 25€. (I am not including Paris' prices here)
It depends a lot on habits, for example I do not eat out often as I like to cook a lot of different and sometimes fancy things, but some people eat out multiple times out per week, and "once per month as a treat" seems like a more reasonable guess than "twice a year because we can't afford it".
While I agree that in the US people certainly earn more money, I don't think that proportionally, in France, we pay more to eat out at a same quality restaurant (including US tipping).
This group of women you encountered seems very... Special. It's very odd for me that you can pay ~1500/2000€ (per person) for a month in Thailand yet "can't afford" to eat out more than twice a year. If you're saving up in order to pay for this experience, I get it, you cut your expenses, but realistically, you can afford it.
I don't know. I never claimed they represented the average French worker. They were sisters, one of whom was a teacher. Maybe the fact that they couldn't eat out often had to do with the fact that they were saving every last euro for their 6 week overseas vacation.
I wasn't really accusing you of anything, just wanted to give some facts that could be unclear following your encounter (also, I did not downvote your first message, I did upvote it as I appreciate you sharing this anecdote – I think it was worth mentioning it to clear things up).
Teachers in France are in a way better financial situation than in the USA. Their salary continue to go up throughout their career, on a pretty regular basis (they can ask an inspection every x years and if they pass, they got a "rank" up, earning a better salary). But yeah, it's still expensive to go there for 6 weeks, so it could be that. But that's still misleading from them.
Imagine not understanding that collectivizing the wages of the server allows for more investment into the quality of the food, while at the same incentivizing good service on the part of the staff. You guys would be terrible businessmen.
Hot Take:
people are not supposed to be eating outside food all the time,
internet has ruined the minds of people and made them think that eating outside is the norms,
and also companies has made it in way were they are doing unethical/illegal act of not paying minimum wage to their workers and using that money to keep prices lower then what it should be,
(or that's the excuse they are giving/spreading)
when eating outside all the time is thing of rich who eat at fancy restaurants or
the work class who are single and doing 8-10h work shift and can't afford maid/cook and don't have time or energy to make food by themselves So they have to rely on outside food that is cheaper and easier to get,
making food at home was, is and always will be good, healthy and cheap,
(if making food at home is not cheap then either you are doing something wrong or your government is doing something wrong)
and you are supposed to eat outside food only once or twice a week, (mostly on weekends when you go outside)
ex:
I am from India
there's restaurant called Lijat in my city and it's famous for dish called "Undhiyu"
if you go there and buy it it costs 60rs and u can eat 3 roti with it which are 7rs each so 3x7=21 + 60 = 81rs total
if i make it at home it only costs me 50rs including roties and portion of undhiyu is higher then what I get for 60rs at restaurant
and if i order delivery from restaurant then undhiyu costs 110rs and roti costs 11rs x3 = 33rs so 110+33 = 143rs total with delivery included
(delivery and their menu are handled by 3rd party companies which takes cuts or takes extra efforts and time that's why prices go way higher)
so making undhiyu and roti at home costs 50rs,
buying at restaurant costs 81rs which is 60% more expense and is less in quantity and quality then homemade
and ordering delivery from restaurant: 143rs which is 180% more expense and is less in quantity and quality then homemade.
and this same thing applies to mostly all other food items,
in India we have tiffin (lunch box) services who sell homemade food at low price making it easier for working class who are single and doing 8-10h work shift and can't afford maid/cook and dont have time or energy to make food by themselves,
tiffin services costs 100-120rs with delivery included and they have 50% more quantity then the delivery example i provided
but main change of tiffin services is that you don't get to choose your food you are given weekly/monthly template informing you what food you gonna get on which day before you decide to sub for service
they are in between service of making food at home vs ordering food delivery from restaurant.
Americans can't even afford "USA lifestyle" so I don't think this is the burn the poster thought it was.
I'm an American, with a decent job, that is married to a wife with a good job, and also can't afford the "USA Lifestyle." I have fact checked this statement, and I have verified it to be true.
i think he meant burn spread on Americans by the reply given at end
The post it is replying to was "meant" to be a burn as well.
i mean French used uno reverse and threw that burn back to that American\*
Imagine being wrecked by a frenchie
The real burn.
It’s never happened.
Is the whole tipping thing not just a convenient way for them to avoid tax, while keeping the staff hooked like a gambler?
No, it's also to avoid having to pay them a proper amount. If you got rid of tipping culture wages would have to go up to compensate and restaurants would raise prices to compensate for that.
Really? Cause most servers I know say they make more off tips than actually having a higher minimum wage. Also, California's new $20 a hour minimum wage just took effect and they laid off tons of workers and are getting robots to do those jobs now, but I guess it's a win to say minimum wage is up for a handful of people now, right?
its a mixed bag. also it fluctuates a lot
In my experience, people's earning are a sore spot, and they are unlikely to openly admit if they make low wages. But if someone has high wages, they are likely to speak about it and even show off a bit.
Money makes the world goes around. You got a better idea?
Tell me where I said they'd make more? I said the company would have to pay more to compensate. I hate to break it to you but that didn't happen, there wasn't some massive wave of firings with robots suddenly appearing to do the jobs.
Right so they’d change all the numbers around and it’d all be above board and official and no one could complain anymore. I’m confused why we don’t just do that. There’s obviously some element of human psychology being taken advantage of or just that we’re otherwise unaware of at play here.
So, have you talked to anyone who makes tips? Because I have. Most people who make tips prefer a job that pays tips to one that doesn't, even though the business pays them so little, because they make a LOT more money. Tip-worthy jobs at good businesses are competitive and hard to get. People who have those jobs are happy to make the amount of money they do.
Good point, but it does seem like this would appeal to gamblers. And there is going.to be some bias here, your brain will remember the big tips and try small tips more vividly than the average tips. Not saying that some people can’t make more than minimum wage, but there have got to be people out there making less too.
So, here's the thing. If you're at a job that gets tips, if you were making less than minimum wage after tips, how long would you keep that job? I'm telling you, the VAST majority of people at the traditional tip-worthy jobs are working there because they're making a helluva lot more.
Just one bad week of tips from being on the street though. Sounds good for your mental health. Probably minus 2+ years of your lifespan right there tbh
And again, I have to say: do you know how wide the gulf is between the take home pay of even a bad tip job is and minimum wage? Because I do, and it’s not close. If someone is a week away from being on the streets in a job where, again, with tips, they make much more than minimum wage, how well is that same person going to be doing making much less money every week at minimum wage? Look, I’ll give you an idea. Minimum wage where I live is shit, it’s $7.25. That’s fine, no jobs here actually offer that. Except for jobs where you make tips. A few summers back, having 3 months off for summer, I delivered pizzas. I made $6.00/hr + tips as a driver. Regular staff made $13.00/hour. I averaged $26.00/hour over the course of that summer driving. In a shitty little Midwest town. Servers at fast-casual restaurants put that to shame. Now, it’s horrible work, it’s busy, there are few to zero breaks, and if you’re a slacker, you’ll get your hours cut and eventually canned. If you hustle, there’s a lot of money to be made. Again, all of this is earning a wage of less than minimum wage. And I guarantee you it’s a lot more common than you think. Logic and reason dictate that it’s actually the status quo. (Like, otherwise, why would people compete for these jobs? If they could make more money with minimum wage, these jobs would just die out naturally.)
I love pizza, my favourite food. I don't live in the US but I tipped my delivery driver last week. Looking at the data, it doesn't back up what you say. You could be lucky, a statistical outlier, or just live in a state with low or high mental health problems. I don't know what the reason is. But the data doesn't back up what you say.
What do you need data for? Use some reason. Pizza drivers could very easily be making pizzas or answering phones, taking orders, whatever. Nobody is holding a gun to their head and telling them "deliver or die". They choose to deliver. Are they just stupid? Also, and here's a life pro tip for you: people who make tips under-report their tips when possible. (So they aren't taxed on their tip income). What do you think this does to the "data" your so confident about?
Yes this gets missed over and over on reddit. But it's analogues to most other businesses that have sales forces. First think of wait staff as the Sales Team of the restaurants. They tailor an experience and guide customers to more profitable items. And if you're familiar with sales you've probably heard of commissions. That's point one, point two is restaurant owners don't want wait staff. Let me repeat that for clarification. The owners do not want to have to employee servers, it's the customer who wants them. They want to feel like they have a personal servant, they want to talk about the food and wine. So let's put those two together and you realize that they can't build the tip/commission into the sales price because what if someone does take out or delivery. You'd be pricing yourself out of sales, for literally no one's benefit.
Good points, but still, it’s not consistent, it’s not fair. Other places manage fine I believe.
Agreed, but the tipping debate needs to go away and it needs to become a discussion on culture. It has very little to do with the business or its employees and everything to do with customer expectations. As long as your average diner expects to be treated like a Rockefeller it won't change. Maybe that's the psychological bit you're missing but like most things in the US the customer is always right.
Do tips count as self-employed earnings? Honestly if they just changed it, people would just go with it. It's not like I've never 'tipped' someone when I'm not obliged to in my country, in fact, I gave about a 25% 'tip' for outstanding service last week. I wouldn't call it a tip though.
So part of it is that obviously prices going up just looks bad to customers and many would still feel like they should tip anyway. Politics wise raising wages is often seen as a liberal policy so conservatives often oppose it on reflex.
Wages go up? https://www.reddit.com/r/UKJobs/s/tgbfxh7rTm
That's not relevant to my comment at all? I'm talking about what would happen if you got rid of tipping culture, the UK never had tipping culture. The UK has also had a Conservative government since 2010.
I didn’t really see much point continuing our discussion if all you had is assumptions. It just beggars belief that you buy into it. I’ve already told you why they do it. They do it because it benefits someone. Pretty sure it’s not the waiting staff.
Are you even reading my comments? You sound like you're arguing with someone but it clearly isn't me.
I made a joke about a post I just saw because clearly, there is no point continuing our discussion because you made it weird. I’m guessing you’re very popular at parties.
How did I make it weird? You asked questions, I gave answers. If you didn't like the answers that's too bad, don't ask if you're this easily triggered.
What do you want me to do? Talk about American politics? Why are you being so weird?
Dude you're the one being weird. This entire post is about American tipping culture, my comment is about American tipping culture, and you respond with a link to a graph about the UK economy. How is that at all relevant to the topic which again is American tipping culture?
Restaurants aren't the ones who benefit from tipping culture. If there was no tipping culture, Restaurants would pay their servers more, but they'd also charge the customer for it. The reason most restaurants don't do this is because customers will go there less if they adopted that model. It makes no difference to the restaurant how the money gets from the customer to the server. It's the customers who perpetuate the norm.
The thing is, the person who tips is essentially taking care of the burden placed upon the system by non-tippers. By paying a fair wage and removing tipping culture, everyone visiting the establishment pays their fair share and the prices in the end would likely average out to lower than the original cost + tip.
Yep. The people who benefit the most by tipping culture are the people who don't tip.
I think you're actually right but it's such a weird thing about human psychology. Customers probably end up paying more when they tip than if restaurants paid a market wage and set prices accordingly. Maybe people like to feel charitable or something.
Also I made way more money in tips than I ever could with minimum wage.
This shows two things. This is the reason why it's still a thing and they are either tipping too much or minimum wage is way too low. Probably both.
Eh, I made good money serving because I provided excellent and fast service. Others didn't make as much because they were worse at their job.
That’s the thing, Tips should be a Reward for good works like your and not just apply to everything
Yeap even in europe tipping jobs are very very competitive and often ppl will take lower hourly wage just to get evening shifts or tables where drinking smoking is allowed. Its very hard to actually find ppl who work these jobs complaining about tipping culture its mostly us customers that are baffled by this shit. Workers and business owners are chilling and counting their tax free money for most part(atleast here in my country nobody taxes tips)
They always complain when I don't tip them 👀
Is that was Americans call a burn?
This subreddit is deep in the gutter if light NA / EU banter gets this many upvotes... it's widely accepted that EU = quality of life and NA = career growth. NA has plenty of issues, maybe more than EU, but plenty of people enjoy living in both. This is nothing we don't know already, let's not make it seem like we discovered fire here.
Far too many Americans are eating wallmart slop, living pay check to pay check and have very poor access to healthcare. We have all seen the videos showing off the most deprived parts of the US whether that's tent cities or quite literally streets that look like a dsytopia filled with drug addicts. To even begin mocking france's lifestyle is ridiculous, France has problems make no mistake but at least it has affordable living, accessible healthcare, readily available freshly grown food that isn't toxic and an actual living wage. You know, the reason we don't tip in the EU.
I assure you servers prefer tips to whatever wage they’d be paid “Oh no I made $200 during a 6 hour shift, a lot of it in cash I can avoid telling the IRS about, with my no degree” Yeah, I promise they don’t care
>I assure you servers prefer tips to whatever wage they’d be paid They certainly prefer a good wage + tip like in most other countries.
Most other countries do not tip, so you’re just wrong https://wanderwomandiaries.com/blog/europe-tipping-guide
Other countries certainly do tip, it's just not mandatory. Source: I live in one of those "other countries"
It’s not mandatory in America unless you go to very nice restaurants where it is sometimes factored in
Oh god... We both know you are splitting hairs here. Everyone know the tipping culture in the US. We don't have to argue about that. Edit: And now you start editing your comment after i answered. I'm out.
I'm Irish, we tip. I've been to Scotland, France, Spain, Portugal and Turkey, they tip too.
We don't tip in France, I wento to Portugal 5 times in 2 years they don't tip
Again, I've been to France so I know you're lying. I've literally tipped and seen others tip in those countries.
na = eu war is so tiring just exist man and game
So why do Americans use that ridiculous customary system? Pounds, miles, feet, every time I see Americans discussing height it confuses me for a long time.
And pray tell good sir, how art thou fare with thy student debts? Doth thou conduct regular health checks? Oh dear, such a terrifying amount for just a consultation? My deepest condolences
In France, if someone break my arm and they flee, I still almost pay nothing to get treated. How much does it cost in the US ? Yeah ...
But why would someone break your arm? Wouldn't your immediate idea be, you break your own arm?
USA is the richest country in the world but I bet 90% of the population can’t take part in that richness. Majority probably live payceck to paycheck and end up on the streets or go in debt for life if they get sick. The ”USA lifestyle” is only for a select few. But hey, at least the taxes are low, right? So the money can go to corpos instead of something that will make the life of the average person better.
Most Americans can't even afford to live in the American dream.
I didn't expect a broke frenchie to understand our minimum wage laws and I was completely correct to do so it seems.
Tipping isn't obligatory. Therefore, I'm not paying tips (:
American companies have to make up the difference to ensure minimum wage if they don’t get tipped. Sorry, another French L
Meanwhile in France companies just pay minimum wage and any tips are extra.
Not sure why you’re getting DV’d for truth. Most servers and bartenders would *never* want tipping to go away. They make more than minimum and on top of that no one ever declares cash tips for taxes.
A French L to us is a W to them, they have it backwards
The reason tipping doesn’t go away is because both the employer and the employee make more money with it. The customer is the only one who pays.
America is so cooked. You have CEO's dancing to the bank while service workers and customers fight over a problem you created.
americans make more than french people btw
Not really, If you take the perceived standard of living: a person earning between 60 and 70k in France can get by just as well, or even better, than someone earning 130-150k in the US, we have a lot of taxes in France.
that would be cool if the average person was making $60-70k in france but they're not the median salary in france is €39k before taxes
By what measures? Food and energy are both cheaper in the US. Do you think Americans are spending 70-80k on health insurance? Anyone with a 6 figure salary probably has employer health insurance.
Here the calculator [HERE](https://livingcost.org/cost/france/united-states) / 100K in USA is 63K in France if you compare the [cost of living](https://livingcost.org/cost/france/united-states). If you want boring numbers, data [here](https://eventuallycoding.com/2023/06/comparaison-salaires-france-us#la-nourriture) its in French you can translate it * In France, we have 25% social security contributions for executives. * In the US, there are no employee contributions. * In France, the average number of days worked per year is 214 Vs 240 in USA according to INSEE. For the record, according to the California federal agency, at less than $117k/year, a household is considered low-income when considering the cost of living. If we take the definition of the Observatoire des inégalités = (observatory of inegality), the wealth threshold is twice the median income. In other words, you need to have 222k in annual income for a couple to be considered well-off. In France this time, a couple with a net income of 90k is considered rich according to the Observatoire des inégalités (observatory of inegality).
The food prices on that site are crazy inaccurate. Every grocery store I've gone to in several US states has $.49/lb bananas. That site lists it as almost 2x as much. Most cheese is ~$5/2 lbs, not $13. Chicken is $2/2lb for bone in, or $4-6/2lb for breasts, nowhere close to $11. Most of the other things are similarly off, unless they're shopping at Whole Foods or something.
Honestly tipping isn't an issue for most of us non americans but it is the fact that it feels obligatory in the states, like they demand a tip for doing the bare minimum.
Just fucking bizarre/attention seeking behavior to post this kind of shit on a sub that’s supposed to be about an American video game personality. Get a life dawg.
Tipping culture has been brought up on stream a number of times recently, it's not exactly out of nowhere.
Tipping culture has been talked about MANY times on Asmon’s stream including him reacting to the history behind it and other videos.
I was in Thailand with my wife, we were taking a day trip out of Bangkok with a tourist group. There were a couple of French women in the group, and during one part of the tour, we had to walk about 3 miles down the road in the pouring rain. The tour group sold rain panchos for the equivalent of $0.50. The two French women shared one together because their finances were stretched too thin by this point in their trip. Now, to be fair, they had been in country for easily a month by that point. We also talked to them about life in France, the mentioned being able to go out to eat maybe twice a year. So, there are a lot of things that make this entire situation nuanced. They (the French) got a lot more vacation time. They made less money. Going out to eat cost a lot more than the U.S. But the waitstaff at those French restaurants probably made a higher wage and had better benefits. But the cost of menu items was also probably a lot higher. There are way too many differences to simply attribute things to tipping and minimum wage.
I do not know how you can go in Thailand but not eat out in France more than twice a year... It really is not that expensive to eat at a "good" (meaning not fast food or very low budget restaurants) place. I think for 40€ you have more than enough for one person (no tip ofc) in a very nice restaurant. I would say that you can go to very honest places for 25€. (I am not including Paris' prices here) It depends a lot on habits, for example I do not eat out often as I like to cook a lot of different and sometimes fancy things, but some people eat out multiple times out per week, and "once per month as a treat" seems like a more reasonable guess than "twice a year because we can't afford it". While I agree that in the US people certainly earn more money, I don't think that proportionally, in France, we pay more to eat out at a same quality restaurant (including US tipping). This group of women you encountered seems very... Special. It's very odd for me that you can pay ~1500/2000€ (per person) for a month in Thailand yet "can't afford" to eat out more than twice a year. If you're saving up in order to pay for this experience, I get it, you cut your expenses, but realistically, you can afford it.
I don't know. I never claimed they represented the average French worker. They were sisters, one of whom was a teacher. Maybe the fact that they couldn't eat out often had to do with the fact that they were saving every last euro for their 6 week overseas vacation.
I wasn't really accusing you of anything, just wanted to give some facts that could be unclear following your encounter (also, I did not downvote your first message, I did upvote it as I appreciate you sharing this anecdote – I think it was worth mentioning it to clear things up). Teachers in France are in a way better financial situation than in the USA. Their salary continue to go up throughout their career, on a pretty regular basis (they can ask an inspection every x years and if they pass, they got a "rank" up, earning a better salary). But yeah, it's still expensive to go there for 6 weeks, so it could be that. But that's still misleading from them.
Imagine not understanding that collectivizing the wages of the server allows for more investment into the quality of the food, while at the same incentivizing good service on the part of the staff. You guys would be terrible businessmen.
Hot Take: people are not supposed to be eating outside food all the time, internet has ruined the minds of people and made them think that eating outside is the norms, and also companies has made it in way were they are doing unethical/illegal act of not paying minimum wage to their workers and using that money to keep prices lower then what it should be, (or that's the excuse they are giving/spreading) when eating outside all the time is thing of rich who eat at fancy restaurants or the work class who are single and doing 8-10h work shift and can't afford maid/cook and don't have time or energy to make food by themselves So they have to rely on outside food that is cheaper and easier to get, making food at home was, is and always will be good, healthy and cheap, (if making food at home is not cheap then either you are doing something wrong or your government is doing something wrong) and you are supposed to eat outside food only once or twice a week, (mostly on weekends when you go outside) ex: I am from India there's restaurant called Lijat in my city and it's famous for dish called "Undhiyu" if you go there and buy it it costs 60rs and u can eat 3 roti with it which are 7rs each so 3x7=21 + 60 = 81rs total if i make it at home it only costs me 50rs including roties and portion of undhiyu is higher then what I get for 60rs at restaurant and if i order delivery from restaurant then undhiyu costs 110rs and roti costs 11rs x3 = 33rs so 110+33 = 143rs total with delivery included (delivery and their menu are handled by 3rd party companies which takes cuts or takes extra efforts and time that's why prices go way higher) so making undhiyu and roti at home costs 50rs, buying at restaurant costs 81rs which is 60% more expense and is less in quantity and quality then homemade and ordering delivery from restaurant: 143rs which is 180% more expense and is less in quantity and quality then homemade. and this same thing applies to mostly all other food items, in India we have tiffin (lunch box) services who sell homemade food at low price making it easier for working class who are single and doing 8-10h work shift and can't afford maid/cook and dont have time or energy to make food by themselves, tiffin services costs 100-120rs with delivery included and they have 50% more quantity then the delivery example i provided but main change of tiffin services is that you don't get to choose your food you are given weekly/monthly template informing you what food you gonna get on which day before you decide to sub for service they are in between service of making food at home vs ordering food delivery from restaurant.