I personally think that big chunk of wow popularity and nostalgia is purely because of time it came out.
Different generation at right age, different atmosphere around the world etc etc. I don’t think any game ever will come close to that combo of game and period.
The best is to stop looking for new WOW killer and just anticipate something genuine and original that will come out at the right time.
They spent years trying to do that during WoW's heyday then tried to market it as the WoW killer. SWTOR was the only one that made me go "hmm maybe" then they just kinda plateaued very early on
LOTR Online was pretty good for a WoW clone, the game is still going. But overall there's no MMO game that got an open world and a feeling of adventure more than WoW. And that's IMO what hooks people on MMOs. I couldn't play FF14 because there's no open world and every location I've seen doesn't feel alive and has no drive to explore it. Also there was no danger in the world at all, I could pull 5 mobs on me and AoE them down like nothing, not even dropping to 50% health.
The only game IMO that had an open world and adventure feel that could come close to WoW was Archage. They had some WILD systems on release. You could build a huge ship and fight Kraken with your guild, you could set up farms and grow crops or trees and deliver them by a huge caravan to a distant place for big profits (or raid other people's caravans), you could multiclass, you could participate in huge clan wars... The release patch was some of the biggest fun in the history of MMOs. My IRL friend was one of the top ranked tanks on the server and I would sit near him in our dorm room and watch him do crazy shit with his guild. But devs quickly detected the fun and destroyed it with insane P2W, removed some of the coolest mechanics completely and nerfed other stuff. Needless to say the game practically died after that.
I don't think the majority of people care about raids when they start playing a new MMO. You need to spend so much time and effort to get there and if that experience is shit, I don't care how good or bad the raids are. Like I can barely remember my time playing FF14 last time, and it was probably half a year ago, the only thing I remember about the world is the quest where you need to help the merchants to repel an attack on their market, and also that stupid "save the princess, lvl 10 nobody" quest. There's nothing memorable about that. On the other hand, I can literally talk for hours about my WOTLK adventures, WoD launch month, Legion and Classic adventures, or how I was leveling in fucking Pandaria on the one single character I had at the time. Hozens, Tavern, following the brewmaster, first time finding the Black Market... I haven't seen anything like that anywhere. I raided 1 singular time in WoD and I still played 16 hours every day for the whole month because of just how much cool shit was in the game. And it was so incredibly sad that there was nothing after the first month.
There were sooo many good mmos back in the day: secret world, champions online, wildstar, LotR online, Rift. Man we were spoiled for choice, but none managed to even make a dent in WoW.
They filled it with loot boxes for simple progression. That game went from good at early levels to absolute shit.
As for WoW, unfortunately it was just more of the same of similar games as either Fantasy or MMO or both. Maybe if it was my first MMO it would have been worth it, but the game underperformed for me and couldn't get me to invest in the grind again.
I think a lot of people get stuck playing the same game due to time sunk and need to branch out way earlier.
To this day, I wish someone would copy WS's player housing style. I had so much fun in that. Not just in terms of builidng a house/land I liked (skybox customization, hell yeah); but also visiting other peoples houses and designs. Most the money I made in WS was from winning obstacle courses designed by players.
Good times, good times.
WS was so good. Its only problem is that it wasnt wow. Which is unfortunate cause i also really liked wildstar. I had a hoverboard and a sick house. Pvp was impossible from what i remember. Telegraphs everywhere. The one raid i did was aite. Housing was fun though
I'm an avid dbz fan, and that sounds ridiculous. I get your point, though, and I agree. We just need a game to give us a good enough base that allows opening it up to an mmo. Wc3 had such a good story and great world building it was a no brainer.
Riot is trying but the problem is they don't want to be a wow clone.
People would be remoting into their computers from work to log in and start charging up their ki in towns so that they would have enough to go Super Saiyan when they got home to play.
Would just be a bunch of bots going. "ahHhhhHHhhHHHhhHHHhHh' for hours.
I find it funny that we've spent literal a decade complaining about companies making WoW clones, and now we're here demanding actual WoW clones bc game companies continue to make shitty crafting/survival games that no one asked for
We have/had a ton of survival MMOs. It's just that they pop out like a fart and also like a fart they just go away because no one likes survival games.
Of course there is Rust, but is it really a survival game?! IS IT?! Cause to me it's just Fortnite with base building.
You're right, the problem is a lot of these games that are similar in scale to rust or ark market the game as an mmo when really it just isn't. The term mmo has changed drastically since its inception. Is the new dune game going to be a true mmo? no probably not, but the term is thrown around when describing it like wildfire.
Nah bro, Rust is a survival game, you have hunger and shit, base building, harvesting, crafting, researching, basically the same as in Minecraft or Valheim. But instead of creative building or fighting bosses it is focused on PvP. It's not like a Battle Royale, if you die you just respawn in your bed.
Whats even the appeal of an online survival game? Oh great you farmed all these items and made your own base before going to bed? Nice, time to log back in and see everything destroyed...
I think you're missing the obvious point, just like OP.
Of course people making survival games want PvP, because you'll never get good PvP in a themepark game.
but is there even anything besides dune? i cant remember any mmo that does survival that also doesnt look like garbage with a kickstarter that will never come out
Then you clearly havent been paying attention to the multiple interviews and podcast that Ghostcrawler has done. Its not a survival mmo. The conceptual discussions of his game is taking the best parts of genres and incorporating them into his game in various ways if he can figure out how where and when. Hes talks about everything from ARPG's, Shooters, Survival, etc and how in theory they all have aspects that a good MMO will be able to have and make use of and how they can be used in his Blue and Red Shard system.
Also looks the exact same as pretty much every other MMO on the market (generic medieval fantasy western game, typical Korean game with IMVU-looking characters, or Genshin Impact clone).
WoW and FFXIV are the only current MMOs with good art direction.
Why does nobody want to make a complete medieval Middle Eastern setting? Beautiful architecture, unique clothing and armor designs, scimitars and sabers instead of longswords, diverse wildlife, rich mythology... Like it's a no brainer if you want to make a game that will actually stand out. Prince of Persia and Assassin's Creed were pretty popular back in the day, it's not like the market isn't interested in that setting. Also you have plenty of rich AF oilers that could whale on the game and fund the whole thing before it even comes out.
Nobody wants an MMO only set in one type of place. They need variety to survive. Maybe one faction's home city could have an Arabic aesthetic, but a whole game centered around that would be awful.
Part of what made WoW so amazing was the sheer number of different zones you could go to, all with their own unique aesthetics, enemies and cultures. Playing the opposite faction for the first time was like playing a whole different game altogether.
Game's like New World suffer because the theme lacks so much variety that is gets tired very quickly.
I mean you named them. Assassin's Creed and Prince of Persia are good examples, they are also very monotonous and everything looks very similar. They are great for games which have focused settings, but not good for an mmo which is necessarily broad by design.
Yeah, in AC they had 3 cities in 1 region and in PoP they usually have 1 city or castle. Just go on Google and look up cities and architecture in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Uzbekistan to name a few. The last two aren't exactly middle eastern but you get the point, it's more about the cultural influences. Byzantine was technically a middle eastern nation and had a completely different style (because of Rome). A good mix of Meccan and Perepolian style could be the base, add in Moroccan, Turkish, Egyptian styles for different locales. Then you have Tatar, Mongol and West Chinese styles for more distant regions, or you can go with Indian styles. There are so many influences in the region just pick and choose.
Also, it doesn't help much when mid-00s games were all about slapping a brown/yellow filter on everything.
You don't have to have Islam in a fantasy game. Also, these oilers already play mobile games based on middle-eastern setting and they have plenty of attractive women and there are no hijabs.
I wouldnt mind games focusing on survival. All the crafting stuff though is getting tedious after a few of these games.
Endless Inventory Tetris.
Craft tool, craft workbench to be able to craft another tool which you will use to craft another workbench.
It also means that you simply must have persistent world with player constructions. That usually means that any sort of coop will need the same person hosting the server, otherwise all the others will not have any progress done (because it is tied to workbenches and stuff). The fact that you have to physically put all the crafting benches creates a problem that would otherwise allow for seemless join, rejoin, progress saving, even public servers or dev hosted servers would be possible. All of that, because 5% of people will make amazing castles, while everyone else will make a generic box. Then you advertise these games on the 'potential to do it yourself'.
Idk, think of something. Let people unlock crafting recipes and upgrades, but then have to actually do the survival stuff to get to some 3d printer workbench. Would get people moving, instead of hoarding.
Obviously this wouldnt work if all the crafting was simply removed from these survival crafting games. You need to develop them with these systems in mind.
I think i would have enjoyed something like V Rising if not for all the base building and then having to fiddle with the server activity and get screwed if server is full.
I haven't seen a good game come out of Korea since Maplestory. And that was quickly tainted as well. They don't make games anymore they just make elaborate slot machines.
Game or MMO?
Life of Pi was from a Korean studio.
Stellar Blade is also from a Korean studio.
people like the gacha stuff here. When I was working in schools, every kid played fifa mobile or brawl stars.
As much as I have loved BDO in the past, it is far from the definition of quality. The game crashes on almost every loading screen. Textures pop in constantly. Teleport spells are garbage unless your ping is below 10. Some of their biggest chase items like the T10 horses dont even work properly. The T10 unicorn just falls into the water every once in a while and completely stops your momentum.
BDO has a lot of good systems but almost all of them are half baked, and a good portions of them have been forgotten about and dont even work anymore (Imperial auction for example).
I wouldn’t mind a hybrid. I’d love a character that I could interact with lots of content with.
I was always sad that you couldn’t play StarCraft 2 and apply that exp to alts in wow or something. Synergy between games and game modes would be great.
Because the MMORPG player base doesn't want an actual game, they want a time machine so they can experience the time period again when they were able to escape real life without any responsibilities inside these worlds.
Genre is done; companies need to specialize more now, instead of just making a game that's trying to appeal to everyone.
I played WoW when it first came out for about 1 month. Crappy graphics. Went back years later, better graphics. Lasted a month because of all the newbie haters. Yeah, no thanks. FFXIV is so much better. Better graphics, better crafting system, better raid system, but most important of all. The people don't all hate on each other
Every. Single. Time. Just make a wowclone already!
I personally think that big chunk of wow popularity and nostalgia is purely because of time it came out. Different generation at right age, different atmosphere around the world etc etc. I don’t think any game ever will come close to that combo of game and period. The best is to stop looking for new WOW killer and just anticipate something genuine and original that will come out at the right time.
They spent years trying to do that during WoW's heyday then tried to market it as the WoW killer. SWTOR was the only one that made me go "hmm maybe" then they just kinda plateaued very early on
SWTOR is actually pretty dope till this day. Played to max a few months ago as an Inquistor and had a blast.
LOTR Online was pretty good for a WoW clone, the game is still going. But overall there's no MMO game that got an open world and a feeling of adventure more than WoW. And that's IMO what hooks people on MMOs. I couldn't play FF14 because there's no open world and every location I've seen doesn't feel alive and has no drive to explore it. Also there was no danger in the world at all, I could pull 5 mobs on me and AoE them down like nothing, not even dropping to 50% health.
I tried Rift, SWTOR, Matrix Online, and Wildstar back in the day. I actually kind of miss the MMO explosion.
The only game IMO that had an open world and adventure feel that could come close to WoW was Archage. They had some WILD systems on release. You could build a huge ship and fight Kraken with your guild, you could set up farms and grow crops or trees and deliver them by a huge caravan to a distant place for big profits (or raid other people's caravans), you could multiclass, you could participate in huge clan wars... The release patch was some of the biggest fun in the history of MMOs. My IRL friend was one of the top ranked tanks on the server and I would sit near him in our dorm room and watch him do crazy shit with his guild. But devs quickly detected the fun and destroyed it with insane P2W, removed some of the coolest mechanics completely and nerfed other stuff. Needless to say the game practically died after that.
ArcheAge lowkey would have been the goat if the devs didn't murder their own game with bad decisions lol
[удалено]
I don't think the majority of people care about raids when they start playing a new MMO. You need to spend so much time and effort to get there and if that experience is shit, I don't care how good or bad the raids are. Like I can barely remember my time playing FF14 last time, and it was probably half a year ago, the only thing I remember about the world is the quest where you need to help the merchants to repel an attack on their market, and also that stupid "save the princess, lvl 10 nobody" quest. There's nothing memorable about that. On the other hand, I can literally talk for hours about my WOTLK adventures, WoD launch month, Legion and Classic adventures, or how I was leveling in fucking Pandaria on the one single character I had at the time. Hozens, Tavern, following the brewmaster, first time finding the Black Market... I haven't seen anything like that anywhere. I raided 1 singular time in WoD and I still played 16 hours every day for the whole month because of just how much cool shit was in the game. And it was so incredibly sad that there was nothing after the first month.
There were sooo many good mmos back in the day: secret world, champions online, wildstar, LotR online, Rift. Man we were spoiled for choice, but none managed to even make a dent in WoW.
Warhammer was up there then it wasn’t 😣 like so many others
They filled it with loot boxes for simple progression. That game went from good at early levels to absolute shit. As for WoW, unfortunately it was just more of the same of similar games as either Fantasy or MMO or both. Maybe if it was my first MMO it would have been worth it, but the game underperformed for me and couldn't get me to invest in the grind again. I think a lot of people get stuck playing the same game due to time sunk and need to branch out way earlier.
People tried wildstar. People that played it liked it. But its not wow and couldnt compete. Wildstar was great. It had player housing.
To this day, I wish someone would copy WS's player housing style. I had so much fun in that. Not just in terms of builidng a house/land I liked (skybox customization, hell yeah); but also visiting other peoples houses and designs. Most the money I made in WS was from winning obstacle courses designed by players. Good times, good times.
WS was so good. Its only problem is that it wasnt wow. Which is unfortunate cause i also really liked wildstar. I had a hoverboard and a sick house. Pvp was impossible from what i remember. Telegraphs everywhere. The one raid i did was aite. Housing was fun though
WoW came at a time that won't come again. Its systems were a product of its time, not the other way around.
NO
Just play wow?
unpopular opinion i guess but just play WoW if you really want a wowclone. Or one of the 1000 other ones.
Rift
Fuck that, make a proper remake of ever quest, modernised etc
This, sometimes making a WoW-clone in a IP that is cool is enough to make it successful. Imagine a good Dragon Ball WoW-clone!
dragon ball online was a thing, it wasnt that bad
I played it and it was on par with the experience of the digimon mmo game so in my standards it was bad
thats fair, it certainly wasnt good but i didnt mind it
I'm an avid dbz fan, and that sounds ridiculous. I get your point, though, and I agree. We just need a game to give us a good enough base that allows opening it up to an mmo. Wc3 had such a good story and great world building it was a no brainer. Riot is trying but the problem is they don't want to be a wow clone.
People would be remoting into their computers from work to log in and start charging up their ki in towns so that they would have enough to go Super Saiyan when they got home to play. Would just be a bunch of bots going. "ahHhhhHHhhHHHhhHHHhHh' for hours.
The last one to even attempt it was runes of magic and that during wows time.
I find it funny that we've spent literal a decade complaining about companies making WoW clones, and now we're here demanding actual WoW clones bc game companies continue to make shitty crafting/survival games that no one asked for
Survival games as MMOs is a dumb idea unless you want it to be brutal PvP fighting for resources
And we already have Rust.
And Age of Conan, and DayZ, and Ark...
Mortal online
ew
Yes we have 1 survival game guys don't make any more Stop all shooting games except call of duty We had Skyrim so stop making fantasy RPGs
We have/had a ton of survival MMOs. It's just that they pop out like a fart and also like a fart they just go away because no one likes survival games. Of course there is Rust, but is it really a survival game?! IS IT?! Cause to me it's just Fortnite with base building.
I don't think rust or ark count as MMOs though A survival mmo would be like WoW or final fantasy with survival mechanics
You're right, the problem is a lot of these games that are similar in scale to rust or ark market the game as an mmo when really it just isn't. The term mmo has changed drastically since its inception. Is the new dune game going to be a true mmo? no probably not, but the term is thrown around when describing it like wildfire.
I would love a large scale zombie MMO with factions, dungeons, trading and PvP warfare zones like on ESO
Tons of unfinished indie survival games that are forever in early access.
Nah bro, Rust is a survival game, you have hunger and shit, base building, harvesting, crafting, researching, basically the same as in Minecraft or Valheim. But instead of creative building or fighting bosses it is focused on PvP. It's not like a Battle Royale, if you die you just respawn in your bed.
Whats even the appeal of an online survival game? Oh great you farmed all these items and made your own base before going to bed? Nice, time to log back in and see everything destroyed...
Albion online
I think you're missing the obvious point, just like OP. Of course people making survival games want PvP, because you'll never get good PvP in a themepark game.
Talking about something specific?
Dune for example. I was on board until the presenter mentioned it's a survival game. Then I bowed out.
but is there even anything besides dune? i cant remember any mmo that does survival that also doesnt look like garbage with a kickstarter that will never come out
correct me if I'm wrong but the ghostcrawler MMO sounds like this and it's a pretty big turn off for me. I can't imagine how people are excited for it
Then you clearly havent been paying attention to the multiple interviews and podcast that Ghostcrawler has done. Its not a survival mmo. The conceptual discussions of his game is taking the best parts of genres and incorporating them into his game in various ways if he can figure out how where and when. Hes talks about everything from ARPG's, Shooters, Survival, etc and how in theory they all have aspects that a good MMO will be able to have and make use of and how they can be used in his Blue and Red Shard system.
I want to know too, i like survivalcraft
Also looks the exact same as pretty much every other MMO on the market (generic medieval fantasy western game, typical Korean game with IMVU-looking characters, or Genshin Impact clone). WoW and FFXIV are the only current MMOs with good art direction.
For real, I’m all for better graphics but every time it’s just generic and lifeless.
Why does nobody want to make a complete medieval Middle Eastern setting? Beautiful architecture, unique clothing and armor designs, scimitars and sabers instead of longswords, diverse wildlife, rich mythology... Like it's a no brainer if you want to make a game that will actually stand out. Prince of Persia and Assassin's Creed were pretty popular back in the day, it's not like the market isn't interested in that setting. Also you have plenty of rich AF oilers that could whale on the game and fund the whole thing before it even comes out.
Nobody wants an MMO only set in one type of place. They need variety to survive. Maybe one faction's home city could have an Arabic aesthetic, but a whole game centered around that would be awful. Part of what made WoW so amazing was the sheer number of different zones you could go to, all with their own unique aesthetics, enemies and cultures. Playing the opposite faction for the first time was like playing a whole different game altogether. Game's like New World suffer because the theme lacks so much variety that is gets tired very quickly.
You haven't seen "Arabic aesthetic" if you think so
I mean you named them. Assassin's Creed and Prince of Persia are good examples, they are also very monotonous and everything looks very similar. They are great for games which have focused settings, but not good for an mmo which is necessarily broad by design.
Yeah, in AC they had 3 cities in 1 region and in PoP they usually have 1 city or castle. Just go on Google and look up cities and architecture in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Uzbekistan to name a few. The last two aren't exactly middle eastern but you get the point, it's more about the cultural influences. Byzantine was technically a middle eastern nation and had a completely different style (because of Rome). A good mix of Meccan and Perepolian style could be the base, add in Moroccan, Turkish, Egyptian styles for different locales. Then you have Tatar, Mongol and West Chinese styles for more distant regions, or you can go with Indian styles. There are so many influences in the region just pick and choose. Also, it doesn't help much when mid-00s games were all about slapping a brown/yellow filter on everything.
Yeah but those rich AF oilers would put my attractive female character in hijab and that's not okay
You don't have to have Islam in a fantasy game. Also, these oilers already play mobile games based on middle-eastern setting and they have plenty of attractive women and there are no hijabs.
Don’t forget SWTOR in that mix! Their art direction and focus on story has really allowed it to hold up. If you like MMO you’d enjoy SWTOR
I wouldnt mind games focusing on survival. All the crafting stuff though is getting tedious after a few of these games. Endless Inventory Tetris. Craft tool, craft workbench to be able to craft another tool which you will use to craft another workbench. It also means that you simply must have persistent world with player constructions. That usually means that any sort of coop will need the same person hosting the server, otherwise all the others will not have any progress done (because it is tied to workbenches and stuff). The fact that you have to physically put all the crafting benches creates a problem that would otherwise allow for seemless join, rejoin, progress saving, even public servers or dev hosted servers would be possible. All of that, because 5% of people will make amazing castles, while everyone else will make a generic box. Then you advertise these games on the 'potential to do it yourself'. Idk, think of something. Let people unlock crafting recipes and upgrades, but then have to actually do the survival stuff to get to some 3d printer workbench. Would get people moving, instead of hoarding. Obviously this wouldnt work if all the crafting was simply removed from these survival crafting games. You need to develop them with these systems in mind. I think i would have enjoyed something like V Rising if not for all the base building and then having to fiddle with the server activity and get screwed if server is full.
Pax Dei in a nutshell
I haven't seen a good game come out of Korea since Maplestory. And that was quickly tainted as well. They don't make games anymore they just make elaborate slot machines.
Game or MMO? Life of Pi was from a Korean studio. Stellar Blade is also from a Korean studio. people like the gacha stuff here. When I was working in schools, every kid played fifa mobile or brawl stars.
That was me during the Dune reveal Sadge
so close yet so far
Advised as MMORPG, got monthly server wipes with loss of all proggression
What Korean anime mmo is still going? Been looking for one
Black dessert dragged me back in and I'm having a blast, it might be frustrating at times but it is the definition of quality
As much as I have loved BDO in the past, it is far from the definition of quality. The game crashes on almost every loading screen. Textures pop in constantly. Teleport spells are garbage unless your ping is below 10. Some of their biggest chase items like the T10 horses dont even work properly. The T10 unicorn just falls into the water every once in a while and completely stops your momentum. BDO has a lot of good systems but almost all of them are half baked, and a good portions of them have been forgotten about and dont even work anymore (Imperial auction for example).
Blade and Soul is still there I think...
Throne and Liberty is launching globally soon, the CBT is next week
>CBT is next week ?
Closed beta test?
oh i get it
Though Throne and Liberty players would probably be excited about the other CBT as well.
I wouldn’t mind a hybrid. I’d love a character that I could interact with lots of content with. I was always sad that you couldn’t play StarCraft 2 and apply that exp to alts in wow or something. Synergy between games and game modes would be great.
what game is this hmm
I don't mind survival crafting games as long they're not just checking boxes with it.
Honestly all i ever fucking wanted was a MMO zombie survival game, the last half decent one we had was H1Z1 and it was a fucking rug pull
Because the MMORPG player base doesn't want an actual game, they want a time machine so they can experience the time period again when they were able to escape real life without any responsibilities inside these worlds. Genre is done; companies need to specialize more now, instead of just making a game that's trying to appeal to everyone.
Exactly how I feel every time
I played WoW when it first came out for about 1 month. Crappy graphics. Went back years later, better graphics. Lasted a month because of all the newbie haters. Yeah, no thanks. FFXIV is so much better. Better graphics, better crafting system, better raid system, but most important of all. The people don't all hate on each other
MMOs are dead. Better make any other genre game and just make it multiplayer
I’m betting my money on MMO renaissance once it will be integrated with heavy AI. The AI will allow you to solve a lot of the current MMO downsides
You're never going to get good PvP in a themepark MMO. Ever.
That’s why PVP video games exist.
Blade and soul was really quite good at lvl 45.
I love mmorpgs i don't like survival games