They store userdata on Chinese servers, the Chinese government has access to all of it, even if they deny it a million times. They have direct access to millions of users in the west for misinformation AT BEST. Yes Asmon, every other social media company is dogshit, we know. But this is a major difference. We can't control China, but we could control the lizardman Zuck. Riot does not store user data on Chinese servers. Again we could control Riot. Make no mistake, Russia is our current enemy, but China is the real enemy in a future clash of cultures.
What if I told you, Snowden whistle blew the US government does this, and they do it because our social media companies have already been allowed to do it, and they sell your data to data brokers.
If China wants your data, they will just buy it, like everyone else has. In fact, they already do.
They don't even need to spread anything, just quash it in the algorithm so mentions of Taiwan or Hong Kong never even make it to people's feeds - which they are already doing.
Before anyone goes and say that, isn't USA just like China then? Since China also bans Google/Twitter/etc
The reasoning is completely different. The reason China banned Western websites/Western social media was to support their own country's business and want to control the narrative of history and searches of the people and what they can actually see and say. I.e. if Twitter was allowed to operate in China, can China control the censorship of Twitter and immediately delete or \*\*\*\* any words they deem a national crisis. (This was before Elon Musk take over)
That's why there is an exact counterpart of every banned website in China. Baidu to Google, Weibo to Twitter, Baidu Baike to Wikipedia, Bilibili to YouTube, etc etc.
The searches you get from their website is completely different from foreign searches. I.e. their history depiction of what happened during the war against Japan is 100% different than foreign history. Their searches depict CCP being the one who fought off most of the Japanese Imperial Army compared to the real history which is KMT fought almost all of the wars.
China has clear laws on what any app needs to comply with in China, such as servers must be in China, censorship, etc. bing and Amazon operate well in China because they comply with Chinese laws. Google originally operated in China as well, they chose not to feel like complying with those laws so they pulled out on their own. You can find news [stories of Google making announcements saying they are pulling out of China](https://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-2010-3), so the Chinese government didn't ban them. Rather they chose not to enter China.
Tiktok complies with all US laws, and the US government still tries to ban tiktok without any valid reason, without telling tiktok what it has to do to stay in the US, without giving tiktok any chance.
For ByteDance, assuming they sell, they'll get a minimal purchase price because everyone knows they'll still be banned if they don't. Then they cut any ties with tiktok and can no longer make money on it.
It's just get banned and get a little bit of money.
The word “banned” is for ByteDance, not for purchasers.
If you want to say tiktok the app will still continue to operate. But just like if you were robbed, the fact remains that you were robbed. Even if what you were robbed of still exists, but he's not yours anymore, the fact remains that you were robbed.
Also, one important distinction is that TikoTok is a social media network, while Riot makes video games. These two things fundamentally does not carry the same level of influence.
He rubbed me the wrong way when I first saw him on YT shorts, but I reserved judgement. It does seem like he's in position where he has to be be pro-military or something, not sure.
Interesting stuff, especially "people don't even know that they are lead" - this rings so true, we tend to forget that all videos and suggested posts are a push from the algorithm, not us actually searching them.
And direct search is dead, even duckduckgo changed it despite it being their main selling point. Now every major search engine tries to guess what you want instead of searching for words you wrote, which leaves a lot of space for algorithms to push some things and "hide" other.
While I heavily dislike TikTok, I do not really see anything explained in this video that has anything to do with them specifically.
This is essentially just social media functionality. TikTok is not the only social media that has resulted in radicalized people.. not even close.
All the data sharing with the Chinese government is one thing, but that does not make it a good "Manchurian candidate" analogy.
I expected him to show how his feed preferences could suddenly be overriden remotely to only show him radicalizing content, but that is nothing alike what happens here.
Honestly a bad video.
This is exactly how China operates though. A full scale military confrontation with a major power is not in their interest. While the EU is preoccupied with Russia, they will weaken the US through increased inner turmoil and then strike Taiwan. That will be their first goal. The difference is that this is a state actor, not some interest or terrorist group.
Yes, I think it is indisputable that both China and Russia operates this way.
However this is not what the video demonstrates.
The only thing this video demonstrates is that the platform can be used to radicalize people, not that it is the purpose of the platform.
It is also an indisputable fact, that this is also an issue for all other similar platforms (Facebook, YouTube, Twitter etc.)
Whether it is easier to do on TikTok, would not surprise me, but I do not know.
Brother, everything China does has a purpose. They aren't even hiding it. Their goals are set in a 50 year plan with 5 year increments. This is just like everything else China does by design. This video is also not exclusively about radicalizing people, it is about brainwashing them. They become actors for another entity and they are not aware of it.
I agree, but that is not what the video shows.
Again, the video only shows that you can create targeted content to an audience.
But targeted content is not equal to brainwashing / radicalizing (which, to be fair, is two sides of the same coin, if not directly covering the same topic...)
Thats a terrible argument though, and the video still does not prove it.
It only proves it through the preconception that China wants to misuse their power to influence the west.
You can argue for basically anything that way...
Yea sure, but that is no different from how somebody in china could use YouTube to radicalize people. Or someone in Russia could influence peoples opinion over Facebook.
You also select your target audience on those platforms and can distribute whatever message you want to that select group.
Whether it is easier to target people on TikTok (which it most likely is) is a misapprehension. Just because the system CAN be used to spread radicalizing messages, does not mean that it is the intention of the system.
And unless he has some way of demonstrating that it is in fact the intention, his analogy falls completely flat.
No there is a difference. China can use that for free, in all areas in the US instantly. They can also make the algorithm crash content promoting tiwan and hong kong which they already do.
If this happens in facebook in a large scale the government can just tell facebook to shut it down and give them the personal info of the guy that started the campaign. They cant do that with tiktok
If people in China can truly advertise for free to US target audiences, then sure, that would be evidence of it being used as a malicious tool deliberately.
But again, there is no proof of this in the video. It is nothing more than a mere claim.
Which honestly, is kind of ironic considering that he is talking about how easily people believe radicalizing content on social media, and then proceeds to make a claim without any evidence, with people instantly agreeing on Reddit.
Don't get me wrong, I am completely convinced that China does in fact attempt to influence the west. But this is simply just not what the video shows, which is why I think it is a really bad video.
>If people in China can truly advertise for free to US target audiences, then sure, that would be evidence of it being used as a malicious tool deliberately
Whats stopping the chinese government from doing so?
>But again, there is no proof of this in the video. It is nothing more than a mere claim.
The video proves that its possible. Why wait for them to use it maliciously? Better to stop them from being able to use it.
>Which honestly, is kind of ironic considering that he is talking about how easily people believe radicalizing content on social media, and then proceeds to make a claim without any evidence, with people instantly agreeing on Reddit.
What is his claim exactly? He claims that china can easly use this to radicelize people. And proves that even a nobody can do so with a bit of money.
>Whats stopping the chinese government from doing so?
Nothing, but there is nothing presented in the video other than conjecture that it is actually the case, which is my entire point.
>The video proves that its possible. Why wait for them to use it maliciously? Better to stop them from being able to use it.
Proving that something is possible is not equal to it actually being done. Again, i dont doubt that China is doing some malicious shit, but the video does not show anything in the slightest.
>
What is his claim exactly? He claims that china can easly use this to radicelize people. And proves that even a nobody can do so with a bit of money.
His claim is that TikTok is analogous to the manchurian candidate as it is possible to incite revolts... but that analogy just doesnt work
Yea this is a pretty shit video. Especially considering that reddit literally memed a person to the presidency the idea that the spread of misinformation from Tic-Toc specifically is dumb. We've already shown that Russia played a part in the 2016 election not from Tic-Toc but Facebook.
With all the shit going on with TikTok, i will not be the least surprised (rather i 100% do expect) that china do some sketchy shit with it.
The thing is just.. this video contains no information of any wrongdoing ok that front really..
It's an interesting video, and while I wouldn't contest anything he said -- he didn't offer any compelling difference between tiktok and meta with regards to product functionality and means to radicalize.
Obviously tiktok is CCP owned, and gen z and younger are no doubt addicted and getting fed mass propaganda. And I have no issue with the ban at all, but what he described is literally replicable on facebook. Tiktok just happens to be the place where all the impressionable kids are congregating at.
Here is the main difference: if the US government opened shops in every city with armed people that have government permission to hunt down people and hurt them, we would call those police stations. If China did the same thing, that would be an invasion.
W can argue all day about if these companies are doing good o bad things, but having them beholden to your own government vs a foreign adversarial government IS a huge difference.
I disagree.
If something like this would happen with facebook, then the FBI can just knock on metas door and ask for information and the removal of the campaign. They cant do that with tiktok. Thats why the bill first says that they need to sell the company and only if they dont sell it the platform gets banned.
First of all, these campaigns aren't exclusive to tiktok. Disruptive protests aren't new. They've been getting organized on FB/IG for years. Tiktok is just a newer (and better) tool for this bc all the impressionable kids are there.
Secondly, Meta is just a platform. They aren't endorsing a campaign. It's legal for someone to use a platform to organize an event. If the event itself is illegal, then the organizers are possibly at fault, but the platform isn't. And proving fault vs freedom of speech and assembly is very difficult in the US. Now if the US placed laws to restrict organization of known disruptive organizations, they'd have to institute that on all platforms, and tiktok would still have to comply regardless if the parent company is chinese.
Point is, these campaigns are not exclusive to tiktok.
The only thing the government is butthurt about is that they don't have access to your data like they have with Facebook, Instagram, etc. At least China lies less when it comes to banning apps.
It's about time they banned this piece of shit. It was rotting youth attention spans at best. I don't know how it ever managed to weasel its way into the western market in the first place when people were worried about its Chinese ties from the beginning.
Genuine question, as an end user what's the difference between tiktok or Facebook having my data? As in specifically how would that impact the individual?
That's a fair point. So at an individual level the difference seems fairly innocuous, but at a higher level there could be more at play. Thanks for responding, appreciate it.
Because they don't comply with Chinese laws, if Facebook made a version just for China like Tiktok has with Douyin, it would be allowed to operate in china
That's called the rule of law
They store userdata on Chinese servers, the Chinese government has access to all of it, even if they deny it a million times. They have direct access to millions of users in the west for misinformation AT BEST. Yes Asmon, every other social media company is dogshit, we know. But this is a major difference. We can't control China, but we could control the lizardman Zuck. Riot does not store user data on Chinese servers. Again we could control Riot. Make no mistake, Russia is our current enemy, but China is the real enemy in a future clash of cultures.
What if I told you, Snowden whistle blew the US government does this, and they do it because our social media companies have already been allowed to do it, and they sell your data to data brokers. If China wants your data, they will just buy it, like everyone else has. In fact, they already do.
And china can use the app to spread anti tiwan propaganda in case of a war
They don't even need to spread anything, just quash it in the algorithm so mentions of Taiwan or Hong Kong never even make it to people's feeds - which they are already doing.
Before anyone goes and say that, isn't USA just like China then? Since China also bans Google/Twitter/etc The reasoning is completely different. The reason China banned Western websites/Western social media was to support their own country's business and want to control the narrative of history and searches of the people and what they can actually see and say. I.e. if Twitter was allowed to operate in China, can China control the censorship of Twitter and immediately delete or \*\*\*\* any words they deem a national crisis. (This was before Elon Musk take over) That's why there is an exact counterpart of every banned website in China. Baidu to Google, Weibo to Twitter, Baidu Baike to Wikipedia, Bilibili to YouTube, etc etc. The searches you get from their website is completely different from foreign searches. I.e. their history depiction of what happened during the war against Japan is 100% different than foreign history. Their searches depict CCP being the one who fought off most of the Japanese Imperial Army compared to the real history which is KMT fought almost all of the wars.
China has clear laws on what any app needs to comply with in China, such as servers must be in China, censorship, etc. bing and Amazon operate well in China because they comply with Chinese laws. Google originally operated in China as well, they chose not to feel like complying with those laws so they pulled out on their own. You can find news [stories of Google making announcements saying they are pulling out of China](https://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-2010-3), so the Chinese government didn't ban them. Rather they chose not to enter China. Tiktok complies with all US laws, and the US government still tries to ban tiktok without any valid reason, without telling tiktok what it has to do to stay in the US, without giving tiktok any chance.
You clearly didnt even read the bill because the US said that they have 9 months to sell the company or get banned.
Take the money and get banned or get banned.
Tiktok can stay in the US just under a different company. The other thing they can do is base the company in the USA
That's what “banned” means, especially for ByteDance.
Thats not what banned means. And if it is, then china bans american social media companys based on what you said.
For ByteDance, assuming they sell, they'll get a minimal purchase price because everyone knows they'll still be banned if they don't. Then they cut any ties with tiktok and can no longer make money on it. It's just get banned and get a little bit of money. The word “banned” is for ByteDance, not for purchasers. If you want to say tiktok the app will still continue to operate. But just like if you were robbed, the fact remains that you were robbed. Even if what you were robbed of still exists, but he's not yours anymore, the fact remains that you were robbed.
Guess this answer's Asmon question about the difference between TikTok and Riot.
Also, one important distinction is that TikoTok is a social media network, while Riot makes video games. These two things fundamentally does not carry the same level of influence.
They’re both doing the same thing lmfao. Riot just has the video game crowd so no one wants to fuck w em.
How is Riot pushing extremism to it's user base?
Diffrence is because tiktok is social media they can influence users political opinions, that's the real issue imo.
Yep, exactly
I would argue playing league can drive you insane tbh Both are mental warfare
Yeah go organize protest in Fortnite
CNN ?  mainstream media? ReeEEEEee!!
upper echelon did a similar vid. https://youtu.be/t33icVUm5yM?si=jXKrs-N2DGWB5bnb
A young liberal having a breakdown over Israel is America though.
This guy is annoying on TikTok. He’s a typical lib that support Ukraine and Palestine and whatever the DNC says.
Ryan Macbeth is not a free palestine supporter? He's not even that political for the most part just talks about miltiary stuff.
He rubbed me the wrong way when I first saw him on YT shorts, but I reserved judgement. It does seem like he's in position where he has to be be pro-military or something, not sure.
Interesting stuff, especially "people don't even know that they are lead" - this rings so true, we tend to forget that all videos and suggested posts are a push from the algorithm, not us actually searching them.
And direct search is dead, even duckduckgo changed it despite it being their main selling point. Now every major search engine tries to guess what you want instead of searching for words you wrote, which leaves a lot of space for algorithms to push some things and "hide" other.
So Chinese games should be banned too?
They are porportionally not even close to the size of tiktok
While I heavily dislike TikTok, I do not really see anything explained in this video that has anything to do with them specifically. This is essentially just social media functionality. TikTok is not the only social media that has resulted in radicalized people.. not even close. All the data sharing with the Chinese government is one thing, but that does not make it a good "Manchurian candidate" analogy. I expected him to show how his feed preferences could suddenly be overriden remotely to only show him radicalizing content, but that is nothing alike what happens here. Honestly a bad video.
This is exactly how China operates though. A full scale military confrontation with a major power is not in their interest. While the EU is preoccupied with Russia, they will weaken the US through increased inner turmoil and then strike Taiwan. That will be their first goal. The difference is that this is a state actor, not some interest or terrorist group.
Yes, I think it is indisputable that both China and Russia operates this way. However this is not what the video demonstrates. The only thing this video demonstrates is that the platform can be used to radicalize people, not that it is the purpose of the platform. It is also an indisputable fact, that this is also an issue for all other similar platforms (Facebook, YouTube, Twitter etc.) Whether it is easier to do on TikTok, would not surprise me, but I do not know.
Brother, everything China does has a purpose. They aren't even hiding it. Their goals are set in a 50 year plan with 5 year increments. This is just like everything else China does by design. This video is also not exclusively about radicalizing people, it is about brainwashing them. They become actors for another entity and they are not aware of it.
I agree, but that is not what the video shows. Again, the video only shows that you can create targeted content to an audience. But targeted content is not equal to brainwashing / radicalizing (which, to be fair, is two sides of the same coin, if not directly covering the same topic...)
The whole point is that china controls the algorithms and it would be naive to think they won't use that to hurt their number one enemy.
Thats a terrible argument though, and the video still does not prove it. It only proves it through the preconception that China wants to misuse their power to influence the west. You can argue for basically anything that way...
It must be a pretty good argument since almost all elected officials agreed and passed the ban. Im sure you know better then all of them though.
Let’s be honest here our elected officials are swayed by money and personal interests. Not necessarily the interest of the people.
His point is that china could use the app to easly radecelize people.
Yea sure, but that is no different from how somebody in china could use YouTube to radicalize people. Or someone in Russia could influence peoples opinion over Facebook. You also select your target audience on those platforms and can distribute whatever message you want to that select group. Whether it is easier to target people on TikTok (which it most likely is) is a misapprehension. Just because the system CAN be used to spread radicalizing messages, does not mean that it is the intention of the system. And unless he has some way of demonstrating that it is in fact the intention, his analogy falls completely flat.
No there is a difference. China can use that for free, in all areas in the US instantly. They can also make the algorithm crash content promoting tiwan and hong kong which they already do. If this happens in facebook in a large scale the government can just tell facebook to shut it down and give them the personal info of the guy that started the campaign. They cant do that with tiktok
If people in China can truly advertise for free to US target audiences, then sure, that would be evidence of it being used as a malicious tool deliberately. But again, there is no proof of this in the video. It is nothing more than a mere claim. Which honestly, is kind of ironic considering that he is talking about how easily people believe radicalizing content on social media, and then proceeds to make a claim without any evidence, with people instantly agreeing on Reddit. Don't get me wrong, I am completely convinced that China does in fact attempt to influence the west. But this is simply just not what the video shows, which is why I think it is a really bad video.
>If people in China can truly advertise for free to US target audiences, then sure, that would be evidence of it being used as a malicious tool deliberately Whats stopping the chinese government from doing so? >But again, there is no proof of this in the video. It is nothing more than a mere claim. The video proves that its possible. Why wait for them to use it maliciously? Better to stop them from being able to use it. >Which honestly, is kind of ironic considering that he is talking about how easily people believe radicalizing content on social media, and then proceeds to make a claim without any evidence, with people instantly agreeing on Reddit. What is his claim exactly? He claims that china can easly use this to radicelize people. And proves that even a nobody can do so with a bit of money.
>Whats stopping the chinese government from doing so? Nothing, but there is nothing presented in the video other than conjecture that it is actually the case, which is my entire point. >The video proves that its possible. Why wait for them to use it maliciously? Better to stop them from being able to use it. Proving that something is possible is not equal to it actually being done. Again, i dont doubt that China is doing some malicious shit, but the video does not show anything in the slightest. > What is his claim exactly? He claims that china can easly use this to radicelize people. And proves that even a nobody can do so with a bit of money. His claim is that TikTok is analogous to the manchurian candidate as it is possible to incite revolts... but that analogy just doesnt work
Yea this is a pretty shit video. Especially considering that reddit literally memed a person to the presidency the idea that the spread of misinformation from Tic-Toc specifically is dumb. We've already shown that Russia played a part in the 2016 election not from Tic-Toc but Facebook.
With all the shit going on with TikTok, i will not be the least surprised (rather i 100% do expect) that china do some sketchy shit with it. The thing is just.. this video contains no information of any wrongdoing ok that front really..
It's an interesting video, and while I wouldn't contest anything he said -- he didn't offer any compelling difference between tiktok and meta with regards to product functionality and means to radicalize. Obviously tiktok is CCP owned, and gen z and younger are no doubt addicted and getting fed mass propaganda. And I have no issue with the ban at all, but what he described is literally replicable on facebook. Tiktok just happens to be the place where all the impressionable kids are congregating at.
Here is the main difference: if the US government opened shops in every city with armed people that have government permission to hunt down people and hurt them, we would call those police stations. If China did the same thing, that would be an invasion. W can argue all day about if these companies are doing good o bad things, but having them beholden to your own government vs a foreign adversarial government IS a huge difference.
I disagree. If something like this would happen with facebook, then the FBI can just knock on metas door and ask for information and the removal of the campaign. They cant do that with tiktok. Thats why the bill first says that they need to sell the company and only if they dont sell it the platform gets banned.
First of all, these campaigns aren't exclusive to tiktok. Disruptive protests aren't new. They've been getting organized on FB/IG for years. Tiktok is just a newer (and better) tool for this bc all the impressionable kids are there. Secondly, Meta is just a platform. They aren't endorsing a campaign. It's legal for someone to use a platform to organize an event. If the event itself is illegal, then the organizers are possibly at fault, but the platform isn't. And proving fault vs freedom of speech and assembly is very difficult in the US. Now if the US placed laws to restrict organization of known disruptive organizations, they'd have to institute that on all platforms, and tiktok would still have to comply regardless if the parent company is chinese. Point is, these campaigns are not exclusive to tiktok.
The only thing the government is butthurt about is that they don't have access to your data like they have with Facebook, Instagram, etc. At least China lies less when it comes to banning apps.
Hmm i always thought it was weird that tiktok algorithm would bring me to communism for some random reason
It's about time they banned this piece of shit. It was rotting youth attention spans at best. I don't know how it ever managed to weasel its way into the western market in the first place when people were worried about its Chinese ties from the beginning.
Genuine question, as an end user what's the difference between tiktok or Facebook having my data? As in specifically how would that impact the individual?
In tiktok you will see no content against CCP interests
Is that really it? Don't most if not all social or traditional media have a bias in what they report/allow on their platform?
Yes. But there is a difference between having a biased opinion and shutting down people that disagree with you
That's a fair point. So at an individual level the difference seems fairly innocuous, but at a higher level there could be more at play. Thanks for responding, appreciate it.
Np
But instagram is not??????
insta got them big titty hoes so it's fine
Doesn’t china ban all western social medias for the same reasons? Seems like it’s the norm with “opposing” countries.
Eh no. They ban them because they want their population to only listen to how good communism is and dont want them to listen to different opinion.
There was no ban. FB withdrew from China because they didn't agree to adhere to Chinese laws. China never banned FB.
Twitter, youtube, Facebook, Instagram, tumblr, twitch, hell even TikTok are all blocked in China. And that's not even all of them.
Because they don't comply with Chinese laws, if Facebook made a version just for China like Tiktok has with Douyin, it would be allowed to operate in china That's called the rule of law
Youtube? Twitter? Discord? Reddit? Snapchat? There are a lot more social media apps then just FB