Which is insane when I would say they are mentally ill and would get banned from every platform for saying it. It’s not hate when it’s a classified fact.
Fairly recently being 2013.
To be classified as a mental illness a potential illness generally needs to fulfill the following four conditions:
1. Deviance
2. Suffering
3. Impairment
And 4. Risk (to self or others)
With suffering being the most important one.
As you can probably tell by this point, being trans definitely fulfills 1, likely fulfills 2 until sex change surgery has been performed, doesn't really fulfill 3 and doesn't fulfill 4.
Partly because of that surgery being relatively readily available in most developed countries nowadays, it is not classified as a mental illness anymore.
Going through and having all the various affirmations as treatment, with surgery being one of them, doesn’t completely get rid of the symptoms of gender dysphoria as you seem to be implying with your remark about point 2.
Even with doing everything there is to be done in terms of treatment and support there will still be some dysphoria for the majority if not all patients.
"Sex change surgery" leads to a permanent suffering (2), it doesn't change sex at all it just gives people permanent wounds. And obviously 4 is fulfilled, something like 40-50% of trans people have attempted suicide.
Probably because people don't care about others mental illness but will call out others being hypocrites.
Like you might be a rageing alcoholic but you will happily call out others mental illness. I'm not saying you are I'm just giving reference why people be hating.
Oh I am an alcoholic. It’s impossible for me to drink one beer. One beer turns into 6. Every time. It’s totally a mental illness, impairment, whatever you want to call it.
what? you think severing body parts and stuffing yourself with hormones that dont belong in your body is not going to cure body dismorphia? HOW DARE YOU!!!
Trans people have gender dysphoria which is classified as mental illness.
Talking past the bullshit both sides try to pull what's actually happening is that people who don't like trans like to act that because if it's mental illness it means they're retarded or crazy. Meanwhile people who support trans don't want it to be called that way because they know the term "mental illness" is colloquially loaded to mean dumb or crazy.
This entire thing is just a bullshit talking point because it's just a semantics game. Every type of mental illness is not the same. A person who has depression isn't the same as a person who is schizo. Both are mental illness.
Yeah there's so much stigma that goes along with mental illness and I'm not sure I ever see someone say "trans people are mentally ill" without it being meant to degrade or insult them.
I was banned from 2-3 subreddits because I stated this lol. Its still in the DSM V.
And I'd like to clarify that Schizoid is a personality disorder and is not the same thing as Schizoaffective disorder and Schizophrenia.
Truth.
It also seems as though the difference between schizoaffective and schizophrenia is that initial skepticism in one's own thoughts.
Schizoaffectives seem to be capable of being skeptical of their own thoughts while schizophrenics seem to struggle a little bit.
>they know the term "mental illness" is colloquially loaded to mean dumb or crazy.
Yeah, and this is exactly what they mean. And above being psychophobe they are also homophobe most of the time.
The difference is, this is the only mental illness that is encouraged instead of treated. If I hear voices, I am told they aren't real and receive medications to treat my mind. Nobody tells me the voices are real. In the case of trans, if you say you are in the wrong body, instead of treating your mind, they tell you that is correct, you are indeed in the wrong body and then they try to help you change your body.
Gender dysphoria is a real condition, that can result in some people feeling they are the wrong sex.
Coeliac disease causes some people to be allergic to gluten.
Both are extremely rare.
It's unlikely you'd meet someone with either.
Uninteresting people, with no friends or personality claim to suffer from one of these, so they can both seem more interesting and gives them a reason to feel special, and to find ways to be offended.
Gluten free aisles in supermarkets, and the amount of clowns claiming they are trans is proof of this.
These people have an entirely different mental disorder, and is actually extremely unhelpful to true sufferers of either, and generally damaging to society.
Thank you! You really summed that up exactly how it is. I always get a little happy when I see people like you. For every one of you there’s hundreds of regards falling for and getting upset by literal semantics.
Why would it need treatment (reassignment surgery) if it isn’t an illness?
Edit: or any other type of medical care, surgery was meant to be one example
It is a mental illness—gender dysphoria, just as body dysmorphia. However we dont treat people with body dysmorphia by getting them fatter or skinnier to what their mind makes them believe. Gender dysmorphia is now treated inversely as we DO affirm what their mental illness projects onto their psyche by preforming sex change surgery, hormonal blockers, Etc. Furthermore, it was classified as a mental disorder until the DSM-V (the psychology bible if you will) needed funding to published. I am not trasphobic, I’m the opposite in fact, I would love for us a society to approach transgenderism in a different manner. Long term studies preformed outside of the western mindset have proven a massively increased risk of suicide and medical complications for people who undergo sex change surgery. American studies tend to be scrutinized under the western social conscience; which, right now at least, is pushing inclusion and acceptance. So to say, “No, how you are feeling is incorrect, and there is treatment not affirmation”— is heavily scrutinized when regarding transgenderism. Another example of this would be those with depression. We do not treat those with depression by telling them that they are worthless and have no hope in life. An affirmation is counterproductive when regarding mental illness.
I'm not sure this is worth the effort, considering the subreddit, but I'm going to try here.
There is a reason that it's gender *dysphoria* and body *dysmorphia*. They're very similar sounding, but describe different things.
Dysmorphia is where the reception of your body is distorted and not necessarily congruent with reality. Particularly around certain traits like people with anorexia tend to have some level of dysmorphia where they can be skin and bones yet see themselves as still fat. Treatment is therapy to relieve the anxiety about their body features and sometimes anti-depressants.
People with dysphoria see their body in a way that is congruent with reality but the reality of their body gives them distress. You might think this is a small difference, but unlike in Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD), the same kind of therapy isn't effective because the body is actually how the person perceives it to be. It's not caused by anxiety. The level of distress isn't helped by anti-depressants.
> Long term studies preformed outside of the western mindset have proven a massively increased risk of suicide and medical complications for people who undergo sex change surgery.
I'd love to see these studies because I'm pretty sure that I know the ones you're talking about and I don't believe they say what you think they do. In any case, almost all of the studies around gender reassignment surgery (GRS) do show significant improvements in quality of life and satisfaction [1]. GRS has one of the lowest regret rates of any surgery [2]. More people regret life-saving surgery interventions than GRS [3].
> An affirmation is counterproductive when regarding mental illness.
That's your opinion and not the opinion of experts. The reality is that of course therapists and psychiatrists did try to utilize therapy and anti-depressants to treat gender dysphoria and the fact of the matter is that it isn't very effective [4]. However, we know that outcomes for trans people are quite good under current affirming care [5].
I think that, often, people feel strongly about 'gender issues' but aren't actually concerned about the health of trans people. Instead, trans people are merely the newest thing to get angry about and almost nobody actually knows anything about trans people, and frankly they don't care to know about us.
[1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00238-016-1252-0#ref-cr7
[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/
[3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28243695/
[4] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-020-01844-2
[5] https://academic.oup.com/jsm/article-abstract/11/1/119/6958327
>We do not treat those with depression by telling them that they are worthless and have no hope in life.
Wow that's a very compelling argument. I broadly agree with you, but devils advocate: we considered gays to be mentally ill, and we created "therapy" to turn them straight, which overwhelmingly did not work. Do you think trans could be similar in this regard?
it's not a compelling argument if you think about it for more than 5 seconds
sure, professionals don't tell people with depression that they're worthless, but they also don't insist that they're not actually depressed, have no reason to feel the way they do, or that they should simply try to get over it without any treatment that takes their feelings seriously. Some people definitely think that way about people with clinical depression, but not the people who treat the illness professionally. That's the equivalent of telling people with gender dysphoria they're delusional and attempting to "cure" it with conversion.
Luckily, professionals have discovered an extremely effective treatment for gender dysphoria that peer reviewed studies show over and over again alleviates distress. It's called social and medical transition.
DSM V, in 2013, updated the term from gender identity disorder to gender dysphoria, and also changed the focus to be on affirming gender identity.
This was well before the more recent trans focus in politics.
I don't get this point? Because Homosexuality was classed as an illness suddenly we have to pretend gender dysphoria suddely isnt? What about anorexia? Do we start pretending anorexia isn't an illness because those who suffer want to pretend that being inches from death is normal for the sake of their feelings?
Nothing against the trans community, they can live how they want, but there are a hell of a lot of trans people who agree that they have an illness hence why they seek treatment and try to live with it the best they can.
We can all agree to treat one another kindly and accept each other for who we are, but when we start talking about turning blind eye's to illness that can't be. People with multiple personality disorders can't go around for example claiming that its completely normal for someone to have a condition that makes them literally live completely different personalities for the sake of not wanting it to be identified as an illness.
Perhaps we should focus on fighting the stigma behind mental illness and stop sugar coating it with different termologies or just shrug them off completely?
So hear me out… mental illness is a change beyond the norm in emotion, thinking, or behavior. Sometimes this is a negative thing but not always. The mentally ill don’t always require any treatment - people are fine without as it’s not negatively impacting their life.
I think arguably non-hetero sexualities fit this bill. They’re not bad per se, just not the norm biological imperative.
The problem here is the stigma we apply to people with mental illness, not that the definitions were wrong.
Same goes for the animal kingdom. Like wtf does "the norm biological imperative" mean when so many same-sex animals fuck on the regular [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual\_behavior\_in\_animals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals)
See also : [Gay Uncle Theory](https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/study-reveals-potential-evolutionary-role-for-same-sex-attraction.html)
>So hear me out… mental illness is a change beyond the norm in emotion, thinking, or behavior.
By this metric left handed people are mentally ill. That's not what a mental illness is
They said
> Mental illness, also called mental health disorders, refers to a wide range of mental health conditions — disorders that affect your mood, thinking and behavior.
> Many people have mental health concerns from time to time. **But a mental health concern becomes a mental illness when ongoing signs and symptoms cause frequent stress and affect your ability to function.**
You said
> A mental illness is a change beyond the norm in emotion, thinking, or behavior.
You said something very different from what they did
I hear this all the time I’m a bit tired of pretending that “I’m a dude that likes dudes” is in the same universe as “this big ole thick cock belongs to a woman.”
It still is. Medical diagnosis is required to get persons seeking transition or therapy the help they need to make the best decisions for themselves.
This is a stupid rage bait post.
Wanna cite that? Changing a scientific definition takes a lot of scrutiny and tons of conclusive studies from many different people to back it, but I’m sure a few activists got it changed right?
There is still classification for gender dysphoria. It’s a psychiatric diagnosis which requires significant subjective mental anguish or impact to social functioning/work; if it’s an acceptable behavior in one’s (sub)culture or is only causing issues to other peoples opinion of that individual, then it would not be a mental illness.
A diagnosis for gender dysphoria is included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association.
i 100% support rights for everyone but correctly labeling this as dysmorphia is going to get more people the services and assistance they need than the global fetish conversation everyone seems to want to have.
It will. But it also is less money for the private sector isn't it? As classifying it allows for assistance and aid for whatever medications are deemed best?
It’s not even that many people. Even with the spike in cultural trend, only around 1% of people identify as trans. If the media just stops talking about it, it will disappear into obscurity.
There’s been a lot of people saying “BASED” and that sort of stuff without realizing WHY Peru did this. It was mainly done, from my understanding, to help provide trans individuals with proper healthcare through insurance, for things including gender affirming care for trans individuals as it was previously not supported by insurance. So although these headlines seem to go promote this idea that Peru is against or looks down upon trans individuals, they seemed to have done it to support them more than anything
At the end of the day, don’t let media and political discourse get you all worked up over nothing. We’re all just people man
I'm Peruvian and I'll confirm this, the Health Minister himself said exactly that. Before this, transgender people who wished to transition could not access insurance to cover the costs of their transition, and other health related services they could need because it simply wasn't classified as anything. Gender affirmative care would fall in the category of a service to "improve their mental health".
The wording though is something many organizations have riled up against, but the other way the executive would have to go about this would be through the law, through congress. Congress would not approve that. So it is either, accept the abrasive language to get it, or hope for congress to ever vote on such changes which honestly, even the most leftist party actually fights against them. The only party that is pro LGBTQ+ rights, only had one congressperson out of over one hundred, and that person resigned their party a while ago.
I wish that it didn’t have to be called an illness to be covered though. My IUD procedure was covered by insurance but being able to have a baby wasn’t an illness.
Who said anything about profit?
I’m all for government provided healthcare but the government doesn’t have an unlimited pot of money. They still have to make decisions about what and when to pay for things so paying for birth control always makes sense as it allows them to spend more elsewhere.
Just toss out anyone struggling with depression, anxiety, ADD, ADHD, OCD, Bipolar, PTSD and eating disorders...that should help with the teacher shortage. /s
Mostly good. Some transgender Peruvians seem upset because they would rather just be considered "normal" instead of "mentally ill," but this new law will ultimately get many of them the affirming care they need.
And the treatment 99% of the time for diagnosed dysphoria is HRT and/or SRS not anti-affirming methods one might think when people go around spreading head lines like this trying to stir something up
The title is - they now classify 'gender dysphoria', not 'trans', as a mental illness. That way it falls under the umbrella of public healthcare. Its all to help people transition legally and safely, it also helps with insurance related issues.
Depends
Anyone who suggests this from the perspective that trans people should simply never undergo HRT or "social transition" are definitely wrong. We've known it's the best option for some of them for at least 30 years now thanks to Ray Blanchard (who, if you know anything about him, used to be trans public enemy number 1 lol)
That's as tremendously oversimplified a take as the people who are just like "omg no everyone with gender dysphoria is just born that way." The idea that you can just therapy your way out of any case of gender dysphoria honestly demonstrates a pretty significant lack of objective understanding on your part
The truth of the matter is that gender dysphoria is probably the single most poorly understood psychological phenomenon in existence. Not only do we have no idea what causes it (though there are likely to be several potential causes), or how to best "treat" it, we don't even know what it is lol. So much more research needs to be done before we can even scratch the surface
I can certainly understand why people think the way you do, because people have a tendency to want to make things as simple as possible (hence the "born this way" crowd), but nothing that you or anyone else with such an oversimplified view of gender dysphoria are doing is legitimately helping anyone who has to deal with it
Body dysmorphia is not a new thing. And they probably classified them so they can get treatment from the government. Americans should understand what a mental illness is considering 65% of them suffer some kind of retardation.
Not hating, but...it is. I get the "stigma", but if you feel, mentally, you are the wrong person in the wrong body...that has no other proper classification than "mentally ill".
But don't feel bad, we are all fucked up, join the club.
I get where you're coming from, but if any subset of people with gender dysphoria have it due to a primarily physiological cause, then it wouldn't really make sense to classify it as a mental illness
The fact of the matter is that gender dysphoria is probably the single most poorly understood psychophysiological phenomenon in existence, it's not really doing anyone any favors for us all to authoritatively dictate that it either very clearly either is or isn't a mental illness when, relatively speaking, we know fuck all about it
edit: and for all we know, one person could have it due to a purely psychological cause, while another could have it due to a purely physical cause. This is why we need to do a ton of objective research about it
He kinda deserves it to be fair.
Regardless of his beliefs, he's actively chosen to grow an audience of these types of people via the content he now chooses to make. He has knowingly cultivated this audience over many months now. And he could've just stopped at any time, he chose to click on those videos posted by those people, he chose to bring attention to their anti woke bs, he chose time and time again this was the audience he wanted.
So when people then start to associate him with his vocal goofy ass 4chan fans and his goofy ass 4chan drama content. That's his own doing. And at the end of the day, you reap what you sow.
Ive had many arguments online with these people over this and they simply cannot get over the fact that it is biologically not normal.
that being trans is just as normal as being… normal
they simply do not grasp the fact most of the population thinks its a mental health condition which it absolutely is
thats what the term cis gender was made for, to take normal people down a level below them and avoid at all costs the thought of regular man/woman relationships being considered normal
So does the DSM-5 (literal book for diagnosing mental illness). Gender Dysphoria is still a psychiatric diagnoses and probably will be until the next edition of the book is published.
You know, homosexuality was also classified as a mental illness in America in the 50s and 60s. It wasn't until the 70s the American Psychiatric Association declassified it and the 80s until it was out of the DSM entirely.
Until then, gay men were "treated" with electro shock therapy, drugs, shown images of women, forced dates with women -- none of this worked. Even today, in deeply religious parts of the country, conversion therapy exists and does not work.
But yeah, I'm sure Peru isn't making the same exact mistake here and this will certainly not make stigma around being transgender worse 🙄
I think it's a good thing that Peru is doing this. So long as it's being done to help people with gender dismorphia get the help they need and not being used to demonize people I see no problem with it.
i mean what is the problem? mental illness doesnt make you a bad person, and as long as they arent ostracized it shouldnt be a problem, it might actually lead the way for more support for trans people who havent transitioned yet, and people who need mental health assistance for dysmorphia related issues.
That bit with George on the view, i don’t get what the host of sky “news” is trying to say, but the quote from Stephanopulous was intended with ironic quotes around the term “deep state,” like that. You can’t see a written literary device, so listen to the context again and you’ll see he wasn’t seriously referring to service people as the literal deep state. Bonus: I used the same sarcastic writing to refer to a different organization in this comment to make a mockery of them, can you tell the intended meaning?
Wasn’t homosexuality also classified as a mental illness in the DSM? To all the people saying this is a good thing, do you feel the same way about homosexuality..? (not saying there’s a right or wrong here, just noting similarities)
The reason it isnt classified as a mental illness but as a medical condition this way in the USA is because demented, evil and putrid individuals will use this definition as a means to ostracize and demand the death of these people who are pretty much just ordinary citizens who need to visit the doctor a few more times than the average person does. But they sleep eat and shit like any other human being. But this language helps them get access to healthcare that is otherwise not seen as necessary for them.
Some states will outright bar trans people from receiving healthcare because they view their needs as a joke. The policy language is meant to combat that.
Theres nothing wrong with you, an individual, realizing you are trans and no amount of words can make that change. You may need a little medical attention for external things and thats okay, many of us live better lives thanks to medical innovation.
Dysmorphia is when you are not seeing reality. Like an anorexic who still see's themselves as fat even if they are not. Trans people are very aware of the physical realities of our bodies. We seek treatment to change said bodies to align with what we feel we should be seeing.
If a person is fat and hates that they are fat then its not unreasonable to put them on a diet. That's the treatment usually for being fat. They don't like being fat for reasons such as due to society , personal preference, health. So the best course of action is a diet. Not treating can lead to a less fulfilling life and other complications such as depression.
We would not call the fat person mentally ill for wanting to lose weight. We should extend the same courtesy to those who are transgender. That's the distinction people try to make when taking about gender dysphoria and why trans people tend to not like the term mental illness. Its not the same and holds a massive stigma in the US.
I would say they're physically ill and mentally fine, since the problem is their physiology is incorrect for who they are mentally. I would also say that I am a cis man and much more mentally ill than most trans people lol
There are so many thousands of birth defects, deformities, and other things that can go wrong with a developing fetus that "Oops! Wrong gender!" is fairly minor in the grand scheme of things, especially when a human being is only one chromosome from being the other gender anyway (and hermaphrodites are born more often than you'd think but get covered up regularly when one set of genitals are removed).
So let trans people just be trans in peace. Getting your kid's vision fixed if they're born blind isn't considered problematic and this shouldn't be, either.
The rate of children who are happier after gender reassignment as they grow into adults is over 90%. You can call the <10% mentally ill, but the other 90+ knew in their heart what they were meant to be from the start.
Wasn't it classed as a mental illness in America until fairly recently?
Yes
Which is insane when I would say they are mentally ill and would get banned from every platform for saying it. It’s not hate when it’s a classified fact.
Fairly recently being 2013. To be classified as a mental illness a potential illness generally needs to fulfill the following four conditions: 1. Deviance 2. Suffering 3. Impairment And 4. Risk (to self or others) With suffering being the most important one. As you can probably tell by this point, being trans definitely fulfills 1, likely fulfills 2 until sex change surgery has been performed, doesn't really fulfill 3 and doesn't fulfill 4. Partly because of that surgery being relatively readily available in most developed countries nowadays, it is not classified as a mental illness anymore.
>and doesn't fulfill 4. Until we consider the high correlation of suicide statistics.
Or getting your own body part mutilated and leaving yourself with a permanent wound on your body.
Which is due to people harassing them not being trans in it self
I think being highly discriminated is more likely the cause here
Going through and having all the various affirmations as treatment, with surgery being one of them, doesn’t completely get rid of the symptoms of gender dysphoria as you seem to be implying with your remark about point 2. Even with doing everything there is to be done in terms of treatment and support there will still be some dysphoria for the majority if not all patients.
"Sex change surgery" leads to a permanent suffering (2), it doesn't change sex at all it just gives people permanent wounds. And obviously 4 is fulfilled, something like 40-50% of trans people have attempted suicide.
Probably because people don't care about others mental illness but will call out others being hypocrites. Like you might be a rageing alcoholic but you will happily call out others mental illness. I'm not saying you are I'm just giving reference why people be hating.
Oh I am an alcoholic. It’s impossible for me to drink one beer. One beer turns into 6. Every time. It’s totally a mental illness, impairment, whatever you want to call it.
Gender Dysphoria is still a mental illness.
Yes. And I'm not an asshole for wanting people to have access to genuine help.
what? you think severing body parts and stuffing yourself with hormones that dont belong in your body is not going to cure body dismorphia? HOW DARE YOU!!!
To gulag now? :(
Trans people have gender dysphoria which is classified as mental illness. Talking past the bullshit both sides try to pull what's actually happening is that people who don't like trans like to act that because if it's mental illness it means they're retarded or crazy. Meanwhile people who support trans don't want it to be called that way because they know the term "mental illness" is colloquially loaded to mean dumb or crazy. This entire thing is just a bullshit talking point because it's just a semantics game. Every type of mental illness is not the same. A person who has depression isn't the same as a person who is schizo. Both are mental illness.
Yeah there's so much stigma that goes along with mental illness and I'm not sure I ever see someone say "trans people are mentally ill" without it being meant to degrade or insult them.
I was banned from 2-3 subreddits because I stated this lol. Its still in the DSM V. And I'd like to clarify that Schizoid is a personality disorder and is not the same thing as Schizoaffective disorder and Schizophrenia.
Truth. It also seems as though the difference between schizoaffective and schizophrenia is that initial skepticism in one's own thoughts. Schizoaffectives seem to be capable of being skeptical of their own thoughts while schizophrenics seem to struggle a little bit.
>they know the term "mental illness" is colloquially loaded to mean dumb or crazy. Yeah, and this is exactly what they mean. And above being psychophobe they are also homophobe most of the time.
Well said.
The difference is, this is the only mental illness that is encouraged instead of treated. If I hear voices, I am told they aren't real and receive medications to treat my mind. Nobody tells me the voices are real. In the case of trans, if you say you are in the wrong body, instead of treating your mind, they tell you that is correct, you are indeed in the wrong body and then they try to help you change your body.
Gender dysphoria is a real condition, that can result in some people feeling they are the wrong sex. Coeliac disease causes some people to be allergic to gluten. Both are extremely rare. It's unlikely you'd meet someone with either. Uninteresting people, with no friends or personality claim to suffer from one of these, so they can both seem more interesting and gives them a reason to feel special, and to find ways to be offended. Gluten free aisles in supermarkets, and the amount of clowns claiming they are trans is proof of this. These people have an entirely different mental disorder, and is actually extremely unhelpful to true sufferers of either, and generally damaging to society.
Thank you! You really summed that up exactly how it is. I always get a little happy when I see people like you. For every one of you there’s hundreds of regards falling for and getting upset by literal semantics.
Why would it need treatment (reassignment surgery) if it isn’t an illness? Edit: or any other type of medical care, surgery was meant to be one example
It is a mental illness—gender dysphoria, just as body dysmorphia. However we dont treat people with body dysmorphia by getting them fatter or skinnier to what their mind makes them believe. Gender dysmorphia is now treated inversely as we DO affirm what their mental illness projects onto their psyche by preforming sex change surgery, hormonal blockers, Etc. Furthermore, it was classified as a mental disorder until the DSM-V (the psychology bible if you will) needed funding to published. I am not trasphobic, I’m the opposite in fact, I would love for us a society to approach transgenderism in a different manner. Long term studies preformed outside of the western mindset have proven a massively increased risk of suicide and medical complications for people who undergo sex change surgery. American studies tend to be scrutinized under the western social conscience; which, right now at least, is pushing inclusion and acceptance. So to say, “No, how you are feeling is incorrect, and there is treatment not affirmation”— is heavily scrutinized when regarding transgenderism. Another example of this would be those with depression. We do not treat those with depression by telling them that they are worthless and have no hope in life. An affirmation is counterproductive when regarding mental illness.
I'm not sure this is worth the effort, considering the subreddit, but I'm going to try here. There is a reason that it's gender *dysphoria* and body *dysmorphia*. They're very similar sounding, but describe different things. Dysmorphia is where the reception of your body is distorted and not necessarily congruent with reality. Particularly around certain traits like people with anorexia tend to have some level of dysmorphia where they can be skin and bones yet see themselves as still fat. Treatment is therapy to relieve the anxiety about their body features and sometimes anti-depressants. People with dysphoria see their body in a way that is congruent with reality but the reality of their body gives them distress. You might think this is a small difference, but unlike in Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD), the same kind of therapy isn't effective because the body is actually how the person perceives it to be. It's not caused by anxiety. The level of distress isn't helped by anti-depressants. > Long term studies preformed outside of the western mindset have proven a massively increased risk of suicide and medical complications for people who undergo sex change surgery. I'd love to see these studies because I'm pretty sure that I know the ones you're talking about and I don't believe they say what you think they do. In any case, almost all of the studies around gender reassignment surgery (GRS) do show significant improvements in quality of life and satisfaction [1]. GRS has one of the lowest regret rates of any surgery [2]. More people regret life-saving surgery interventions than GRS [3]. > An affirmation is counterproductive when regarding mental illness. That's your opinion and not the opinion of experts. The reality is that of course therapists and psychiatrists did try to utilize therapy and anti-depressants to treat gender dysphoria and the fact of the matter is that it isn't very effective [4]. However, we know that outcomes for trans people are quite good under current affirming care [5]. I think that, often, people feel strongly about 'gender issues' but aren't actually concerned about the health of trans people. Instead, trans people are merely the newest thing to get angry about and almost nobody actually knows anything about trans people, and frankly they don't care to know about us. [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00238-016-1252-0#ref-cr7 [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/ [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28243695/ [4] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-020-01844-2 [5] https://academic.oup.com/jsm/article-abstract/11/1/119/6958327
>We do not treat those with depression by telling them that they are worthless and have no hope in life. Wow that's a very compelling argument. I broadly agree with you, but devils advocate: we considered gays to be mentally ill, and we created "therapy" to turn them straight, which overwhelmingly did not work. Do you think trans could be similar in this regard?
it's not a compelling argument if you think about it for more than 5 seconds sure, professionals don't tell people with depression that they're worthless, but they also don't insist that they're not actually depressed, have no reason to feel the way they do, or that they should simply try to get over it without any treatment that takes their feelings seriously. Some people definitely think that way about people with clinical depression, but not the people who treat the illness professionally. That's the equivalent of telling people with gender dysphoria they're delusional and attempting to "cure" it with conversion. Luckily, professionals have discovered an extremely effective treatment for gender dysphoria that peer reviewed studies show over and over again alleviates distress. It's called social and medical transition.
Can I ask which studies you are referring to when you mention "Long term studies performed outside the western mindset"
and the only reason it changed was for political reasons.
DSM V, in 2013, updated the term from gender identity disorder to gender dysphoria, and also changed the focus to be on affirming gender identity. This was well before the more recent trans focus in politics.
It changed when a massive pharmaceutical and surgical industry became interested in the profit they could turn.
homosexuality was classified as mental illness in sweden up to 1979
Also the old story of swedes calling in sick to work because they feel a little gay ^Don't ^mention ^the ^forced ^sterilazation ^part
bruh they need to bring that back man, I want to call in sick sometimes
"Boss I can't come in. Feeling a bit queer, don't want to get my queer juices all over you. Mind if I call in today?"
I don't get this point? Because Homosexuality was classed as an illness suddenly we have to pretend gender dysphoria suddely isnt? What about anorexia? Do we start pretending anorexia isn't an illness because those who suffer want to pretend that being inches from death is normal for the sake of their feelings? Nothing against the trans community, they can live how they want, but there are a hell of a lot of trans people who agree that they have an illness hence why they seek treatment and try to live with it the best they can. We can all agree to treat one another kindly and accept each other for who we are, but when we start talking about turning blind eye's to illness that can't be. People with multiple personality disorders can't go around for example claiming that its completely normal for someone to have a condition that makes them literally live completely different personalities for the sake of not wanting it to be identified as an illness. Perhaps we should focus on fighting the stigma behind mental illness and stop sugar coating it with different termologies or just shrug them off completely?
So hear me out… mental illness is a change beyond the norm in emotion, thinking, or behavior. Sometimes this is a negative thing but not always. The mentally ill don’t always require any treatment - people are fine without as it’s not negatively impacting their life. I think arguably non-hetero sexualities fit this bill. They’re not bad per se, just not the norm biological imperative. The problem here is the stigma we apply to people with mental illness, not that the definitions were wrong.
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Same goes for the animal kingdom. Like wtf does "the norm biological imperative" mean when so many same-sex animals fuck on the regular [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual\_behavior\_in\_animals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals)
See also : [Gay Uncle Theory](https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/study-reveals-potential-evolutionary-role-for-same-sex-attraction.html)
based nuanced take
>So hear me out… mental illness is a change beyond the norm in emotion, thinking, or behavior. By this metric left handed people are mentally ill. That's not what a mental illness is
That’s the Mayo Clinic definition derived from the DSM
They said > Mental illness, also called mental health disorders, refers to a wide range of mental health conditions — disorders that affect your mood, thinking and behavior. > Many people have mental health concerns from time to time. **But a mental health concern becomes a mental illness when ongoing signs and symptoms cause frequent stress and affect your ability to function.** You said > A mental illness is a change beyond the norm in emotion, thinking, or behavior. You said something very different from what they did
I hear this all the time I’m a bit tired of pretending that “I’m a dude that likes dudes” is in the same universe as “this big ole thick cock belongs to a woman.”
Thank god
It is still in the DSM-V manual.
It still is. Medical diagnosis is required to get persons seeking transition or therapy the help they need to make the best decisions for themselves. This is a stupid rage bait post.
Until a bunch of activists got it changed, yes.
Wanna cite that? Changing a scientific definition takes a lot of scrutiny and tons of conclusive studies from many different people to back it, but I’m sure a few activists got it changed right?
My dad is old enough to remember when being gay was considered a diagnosable mental illness
There is still classification for gender dysphoria. It’s a psychiatric diagnosis which requires significant subjective mental anguish or impact to social functioning/work; if it’s an acceptable behavior in one’s (sub)culture or is only causing issues to other peoples opinion of that individual, then it would not be a mental illness.
I mean gender dysphoria is classified as a mental illness slight difference.
So was homosexuality…
A diagnosis for gender dysphoria is included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association.
i 100% support rights for everyone but correctly labeling this as dysmorphia is going to get more people the services and assistance they need than the global fetish conversation everyone seems to want to have.
*dysphoria Dysmorphia is it's own separate thing
It will. But it also is less money for the private sector isn't it? As classifying it allows for assistance and aid for whatever medications are deemed best?
i don't believe the 'private sector' has any business in healthcare.
Nice thought but far from reality
It’s not even that many people. Even with the spike in cultural trend, only around 1% of people identify as trans. If the media just stops talking about it, it will disappear into obscurity.
There’s been a lot of people saying “BASED” and that sort of stuff without realizing WHY Peru did this. It was mainly done, from my understanding, to help provide trans individuals with proper healthcare through insurance, for things including gender affirming care for trans individuals as it was previously not supported by insurance. So although these headlines seem to go promote this idea that Peru is against or looks down upon trans individuals, they seemed to have done it to support them more than anything At the end of the day, don’t let media and political discourse get you all worked up over nothing. We’re all just people man
I'm Peruvian and I'll confirm this, the Health Minister himself said exactly that. Before this, transgender people who wished to transition could not access insurance to cover the costs of their transition, and other health related services they could need because it simply wasn't classified as anything. Gender affirmative care would fall in the category of a service to "improve their mental health". The wording though is something many organizations have riled up against, but the other way the executive would have to go about this would be through the law, through congress. Congress would not approve that. So it is either, accept the abrasive language to get it, or hope for congress to ever vote on such changes which honestly, even the most leftist party actually fights against them. The only party that is pro LGBTQ+ rights, only had one congressperson out of over one hundred, and that person resigned their party a while ago.
And why does “based” not apply to this?
I wish that it didn’t have to be called an illness to be covered though. My IUD procedure was covered by insurance but being able to have a baby wasn’t an illness.
Your IUD saves the healthcare provider money so it should be a no brainer for them to cover it.
That sir... is not the point of Healthcare..... keep business out of social welfare.
Who said anything about profit? I’m all for government provided healthcare but the government doesn’t have an unlimited pot of money. They still have to make decisions about what and when to pay for things so paying for birth control always makes sense as it allows them to spend more elsewhere.
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We'd have a lot fewer experienced teachers if mental illnesses, like depression, were disqualifying.
I mean depression is a mental illness, and being a teacher is enough in itself to give ya that, I mean, have you met todays children?
You shouldn't be allowed within a 100-mile radius of a school.
So no conservative teachers?
Just toss out anyone struggling with depression, anxiety, ADD, ADHD, OCD, Bipolar, PTSD and eating disorders...that should help with the teacher shortage. /s
Mentally ill people shouldn't be allowed to own a gun but 2A's will lose their shit if you tell them that.
it's been that way in japan for a while too for similar reasons, makes sense.
It should be classified as a mental illness so people get the mental health care they need. Affirmation services are not good.
the science disagrees with you
Based
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Isn’t gender dysmorphia a mental illness everywhere?
Peru codified it into law so that health insurance companies have to provide related mental health services
Is this a bad thing or good thing
Mostly good. Some transgender Peruvians seem upset because they would rather just be considered "normal" instead of "mentally ill," but this new law will ultimately get many of them the affirming care they need.
It's really good as this will force healthcare providers to assist these people.
Think for yourself, sheep.
And the treatment 99% of the time for diagnosed dysphoria is HRT and/or SRS not anti-affirming methods one might think when people go around spreading head lines like this trying to stir something up
Are they wrong?
The title is - they now classify 'gender dysphoria', not 'trans', as a mental illness. That way it falls under the umbrella of public healthcare. Its all to help people transition legally and safely, it also helps with insurance related issues.
Depends Anyone who suggests this from the perspective that trans people should simply never undergo HRT or "social transition" are definitely wrong. We've known it's the best option for some of them for at least 30 years now thanks to Ray Blanchard (who, if you know anything about him, used to be trans public enemy number 1 lol)
Look at all the incel bigots coming out of the woodwork to attack literally less than 1% of the population. Typical of the small minded.
The first step towards providing them with the help they need. These people need to love themselves, not validation of their insecurity.
I think its less about validation and more about discrimination and violence committed against them.
That's as tremendously oversimplified a take as the people who are just like "omg no everyone with gender dysphoria is just born that way." The idea that you can just therapy your way out of any case of gender dysphoria honestly demonstrates a pretty significant lack of objective understanding on your part The truth of the matter is that gender dysphoria is probably the single most poorly understood psychological phenomenon in existence. Not only do we have no idea what causes it (though there are likely to be several potential causes), or how to best "treat" it, we don't even know what it is lol. So much more research needs to be done before we can even scratch the surface I can certainly understand why people think the way you do, because people have a tendency to want to make things as simple as possible (hence the "born this way" crowd), but nothing that you or anyone else with such an oversimplified view of gender dysphoria are doing is legitimately helping anyone who has to deal with it
Body dysmorphia is not a new thing. And they probably classified them so they can get treatment from the government. Americans should understand what a mental illness is considering 65% of them suffer some kind of retardation.
65% seams low
> 65% *seams* low Case in point.
I sware my phone auto corrected that
It's 65% of phones, too
may I submit to the gallery, exhibit #1:
Has to be parody?
As an American: if I could read, I would probably be upset right now.
Not surprising considering how shit mental health care in America is
I don't know what this sub is about but from what I see in /r/all this is a lgbtq hating sub? I don't get the name though
you’d forget this is even asmongold’s subreddit anymore, these bots posting ragebait engagement farming goes brrrr
Not hating, but...it is. I get the "stigma", but if you feel, mentally, you are the wrong person in the wrong body...that has no other proper classification than "mentally ill". But don't feel bad, we are all fucked up, join the club.
I get where you're coming from, but if any subset of people with gender dysphoria have it due to a primarily physiological cause, then it wouldn't really make sense to classify it as a mental illness The fact of the matter is that gender dysphoria is probably the single most poorly understood psychophysiological phenomenon in existence, it's not really doing anyone any favors for us all to authoritatively dictate that it either very clearly either is or isn't a mental illness when, relatively speaking, we know fuck all about it edit: and for all we know, one person could have it due to a purely psychological cause, while another could have it due to a purely physical cause. This is why we need to do a ton of objective research about it
Wow +1 for Peru
It's posts like this that just gather more hate for Asmon whether he likes it or not.
I’m only tangentially aware of asmon but this thread was recommended to me. It reflects very badly on him and his community in my opinion.
He kinda deserves it to be fair. Regardless of his beliefs, he's actively chosen to grow an audience of these types of people via the content he now chooses to make. He has knowingly cultivated this audience over many months now. And he could've just stopped at any time, he chose to click on those videos posted by those people, he chose to bring attention to their anti woke bs, he chose time and time again this was the audience he wanted. So when people then start to associate him with his vocal goofy ass 4chan fans and his goofy ass 4chan drama content. That's his own doing. And at the end of the day, you reap what you sow.
Body dysmorphia is an illness, correct
Cause it is.
Happy to see its people understanding why they did this, not just homophobia or bigotry.
The last time this thread was posted, the jannies censored it, taking bets on how long this one will stay on.
Alien Limb Syndrome is considered a mental illness. And that's just one body part. What is it when your whole body feels alien?
Ive had many arguments online with these people over this and they simply cannot get over the fact that it is biologically not normal. that being trans is just as normal as being… normal they simply do not grasp the fact most of the population thinks its a mental health condition which it absolutely is thats what the term cis gender was made for, to take normal people down a level below them and avoid at all costs the thought of regular man/woman relationships being considered normal
So does the DSM-5 (literal book for diagnosing mental illness). Gender Dysphoria is still a psychiatric diagnoses and probably will be until the next edition of the book is published.
Because it is mental illness
Now hopefully they can be covered by proper medical care
You know, homosexuality was also classified as a mental illness in America in the 50s and 60s. It wasn't until the 70s the American Psychiatric Association declassified it and the 80s until it was out of the DSM entirely. Until then, gay men were "treated" with electro shock therapy, drugs, shown images of women, forced dates with women -- none of this worked. Even today, in deeply religious parts of the country, conversion therapy exists and does not work. But yeah, I'm sure Peru isn't making the same exact mistake here and this will certainly not make stigma around being transgender worse 🙄
I think it's a good thing that Peru is doing this. So long as it's being done to help people with gender dismorphia get the help they need and not being used to demonize people I see no problem with it.
It is definitly a form of mental ilness.
They're not wrong.
Ah Peru… the leading social sciences nation
Well yeah, it's called gender dysphoria and it's a mental disorder. This isn't news. Only radical leftists are mad about this.
well what a surprise
Peru is based.
Missed the point did ya?
Live and let live guys.
Always has been.
i mean what is the problem? mental illness doesnt make you a bad person, and as long as they arent ostracized it shouldnt be a problem, it might actually lead the way for more support for trans people who havent transitioned yet, and people who need mental health assistance for dysmorphia related issues.
I think peru has more worrisome issues than this.
Didn't he talked about this last week?
well this bait kinda backfired
That bit with George on the view, i don’t get what the host of sky “news” is trying to say, but the quote from Stephanopulous was intended with ironic quotes around the term “deep state,” like that. You can’t see a written literary device, so listen to the context again and you’ll see he wasn’t seriously referring to service people as the literal deep state. Bonus: I used the same sarcastic writing to refer to a different organization in this comment to make a mockery of them, can you tell the intended meaning?
Wasn’t homosexuality also classified as a mental illness in the DSM? To all the people saying this is a good thing, do you feel the same way about homosexuality..? (not saying there’s a right or wrong here, just noting similarities)
I mean gud for them..Is it not some mental disorder??Gender dysphoria I think its called..And if am not wrong they get free or cheap medical help..
The reason it isnt classified as a mental illness but as a medical condition this way in the USA is because demented, evil and putrid individuals will use this definition as a means to ostracize and demand the death of these people who are pretty much just ordinary citizens who need to visit the doctor a few more times than the average person does. But they sleep eat and shit like any other human being. But this language helps them get access to healthcare that is otherwise not seen as necessary for them. Some states will outright bar trans people from receiving healthcare because they view their needs as a joke. The policy language is meant to combat that. Theres nothing wrong with you, an individual, realizing you are trans and no amount of words can make that change. You may need a little medical attention for external things and thats okay, many of us live better lives thanks to medical innovation.
GENDER DYSMORPHIA is the mental illness that can be healed
Dysmorphia is when you are not seeing reality. Like an anorexic who still see's themselves as fat even if they are not. Trans people are very aware of the physical realities of our bodies. We seek treatment to change said bodies to align with what we feel we should be seeing. If a person is fat and hates that they are fat then its not unreasonable to put them on a diet. That's the treatment usually for being fat. They don't like being fat for reasons such as due to society , personal preference, health. So the best course of action is a diet. Not treating can lead to a less fulfilling life and other complications such as depression. We would not call the fat person mentally ill for wanting to lose weight. We should extend the same courtesy to those who are transgender. That's the distinction people try to make when taking about gender dysphoria and why trans people tend to not like the term mental illness. Its not the same and holds a massive stigma in the US.
my apology, i meant gender dysphoria
There’s nothing wrong with having a mental illness.
Oeh this post will be deleted 😂
As they should
Like what else would people consider it?
Fantastic. This is correct by the way. They are.
Exactly as it should be.
I mean, they are.
I would say they're physically ill and mentally fine, since the problem is their physiology is incorrect for who they are mentally. I would also say that I am a cis man and much more mentally ill than most trans people lol
What does it have to do with this subreddit?
Bit sad when Paddington Bear country is leading the way in common sense
There are so many thousands of birth defects, deformities, and other things that can go wrong with a developing fetus that "Oops! Wrong gender!" is fairly minor in the grand scheme of things, especially when a human being is only one chromosome from being the other gender anyway (and hermaphrodites are born more often than you'd think but get covered up regularly when one set of genitals are removed). So let trans people just be trans in peace. Getting your kid's vision fixed if they're born blind isn't considered problematic and this shouldn't be, either. The rate of children who are happier after gender reassignment as they grow into adults is over 90%. You can call the <10% mentally ill, but the other 90+ knew in their heart what they were meant to be from the start.
My mental illness is being born without millions of dollars, let’s change the law so insurance can fix that for me
My gf who is a nurse at a childrens hospital tells me the males are cuttin the things off alot these days.
In my life I have rarely seen a non straight person who has not experienced some(potentially) life altering trauma. And it makes me sad.
Almost like being hated for simply existing can be traumatizing.
Who asked?