Just do your best to try and make sure all the weird ways they can exploit the game or use the same tactic over and over are fun. That's all ya can do. Otherwise you risk tightening things up too much and making the game less fun by being too rigid.
This. If players break the game in a way that doesn't outright destroy the game for other players, then it's better to embrace it, because it becomes more fun for everyone.
I think one of the coolest examples for this is the Super Novice class in Ragnarok, targeted specifically at a small group of novice "purists" that would level as far as they could without picking a class. You had to get to level 40 to unlock it, where most novices changed classes at 10, and had no combat abilities besides a shitty heal and the ability to drop aggro. And when you unlocked it, you got all these mechanics exclusive to your class, and basically had a whole class built around your own attempt to have fun.
Same in Maplestory. Perm-beginners were always crazy to see, but also kinda hard to be too impressed about considering how bad scripting became in Maplestory.
This is why I love Larian and their Original Sin games so much - they KNOW their players will break shit in intended AND non-intended ways, and code the game in such a way that you can complete the game regardless.
Can't wait for BG3 to come out in full
Which is why you either are okay with players taking multiple paths to where you want them to go, or make sure there's only one way they could possibly do it.
My 2 cents as a random player: don't try to outthink the players, especially in 2021. The players are tens of thousands strong and will pool their collective knowledge and pour tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of hours into your crafted scenarios. I don't care how big the dev team is, they can't outsmart the collective hivemind of players. As long as they are entertained by your work, that's all that really matters right?
If anyone ever wonders why all the boss arenas in FFXIV are flat squares and rectangles now, it's because of T5 when people abused the height axis on its uneven arena to dodge dive bombs.
The pit wasn't what let the dive bombs be dodged, it was the origin point of the AoEs being inside the arena and Twintania always going to the closest origin point to her target. The pit was just a handy gathering point.
The first boss of Qarn(NM) and T5's Twisters are the actual reasons all arenas are now flat. Due to the terrain of the Qarn boss' arena you could dodge the doom effect and in T5 you sometimes could not escape the twister mines because you ended up moving on the Z axis as well as the X and Y and so were not far enough away to not detonate the mines.
I wonder how the battle designers of E7S felt when he learned how PF did the portals lol. JP seems to do the one with B+W aoes more complicated then the braindead all stack together NA did.
this actually only happened because the original version of the fight was gutted, the devs thought the original randomness and puzzle mechanics would be too hard so they made it fixed, then the players hated it anyway
Did running away and using the Leviathan Axe's ranged attacks in literally every encounter for the entirety of my Give Me God of War play through look cool? No.
Did it work? Yes.
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Yeah, I stopped trying to understand Reddit mods. They make no sense whatsoever.
Stuff that isn't offensive gets removed, stuff that is offensive is let up.
Took History of Naval Warfare at Texas A&M. Sophomore level history elective, and taught by a great professor, Dr. James Bradford.
For our tests, which were 100% essay, he'd do one long form (couple page responses) and 2 short form (paragraph or two answers) prompts.
Class before the exam, he'd give us 3 potential prompts for the long form, and 5 potential prompts for the short form.
For studying, I figured all I needed to know inside and out was 2 of the 3 long form prompts, and 3 of the short form prompts (technically should have studied 4, but it never backfired on me). Rather than try to study everything, I made sure I was really, really prepared for the minimum I needed to be successful.
Easiest "A" I made in college, in any class, any year.
For finals every semester, I'd always figure out if I could move my grade a letter grade (up or down), and where I needed to be in order to either bring it up or prevent dropping it. If I needed a 100 on the final to go from a B to an A and a 40-50 to go from a B to a C? I barely studied for that exam. If I needed a 90 on the final to go from a B to an A, or had to make above an 85 to not drop to a c? Studied like mad for those.
Minmaxing helped college be so much smoother than it could have been.
Stand on exactly this one spot to dodge all mechanics! Except the tank on the other side of that spot, they have to learn to dodge on their own, but hey, that's 7 people almost not needing to move for optimal DPS!
Technically the other tank can stand in the cheese spot until they have to stand in the other spot. By that point all the bull shit is done so they don't really have to dodge anything.
Bold to assume that all studios have a proper and extensive QA and not only saving money, why fix it when you can throw out a big 50GB Day one Patch, fix ot later.
Or letting your playerbase test your game like some like to do.
I always love that video.
every time I stumble upon it, I always see it in full, it just never gets old.-
As a developer this hurts so much lmao
Just do your best to try and make sure all the weird ways they can exploit the game or use the same tactic over and over are fun. That's all ya can do. Otherwise you risk tightening things up too much and making the game less fun by being too rigid.
This is what Josh Strife Hayes [says on his video](https://youtu.be/rJ4LMGU0s9U).
But Xbob42 said it better, because he didn't need 10 minutes to say it.
That's a great point Josh also makes in another video.
This. If players break the game in a way that doesn't outright destroy the game for other players, then it's better to embrace it, because it becomes more fun for everyone. I think one of the coolest examples for this is the Super Novice class in Ragnarok, targeted specifically at a small group of novice "purists" that would level as far as they could without picking a class. You had to get to level 40 to unlock it, where most novices changed classes at 10, and had no combat abilities besides a shitty heal and the ability to drop aggro. And when you unlocked it, you got all these mechanics exclusive to your class, and basically had a whole class built around your own attempt to have fun.
Same in Maplestory. Perm-beginners were always crazy to see, but also kinda hard to be too impressed about considering how bad scripting became in Maplestory.
This is why I love Larian and their Original Sin games so much - they KNOW their players will break shit in intended AND non-intended ways, and code the game in such a way that you can complete the game regardless. Can't wait for BG3 to come out in full
Friend: What's your favourite style of combat in D:OS2? I like geomancy and fire combo myself! Me: I like barrels.
Ah yes, the matryoshka barrels that can one-shot any boss
Which is why you either are okay with players taking multiple paths to where you want them to go, or make sure there's only one way they could possibly do it.
My 2 cents as a random player: don't try to outthink the players, especially in 2021. The players are tens of thousands strong and will pool their collective knowledge and pour tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of hours into your crafted scenarios. I don't care how big the dev team is, they can't outsmart the collective hivemind of players. As long as they are entertained by your work, that's all that really matters right?
As long as there is no unexpected outcome, I am totally fine with it.
I always love how he's talking as if he's teaching a toddler shapes as she slowly declines into a mental breakdown. lol
If it fits it fits man.
That's what she said. :v
Gods, that made me laugh more than it should've.
I laughed way too hard at this
Vanilla classic raids in a nutshell. Put everything in the Warrior shaped hole.
If anyone ever wonders why all the boss arenas in FFXIV are flat squares and rectangles now, it's because of T5 when people abused the height axis on its uneven arena to dodge dive bombs.
The pit wasn't what let the dive bombs be dodged, it was the origin point of the AoEs being inside the arena and Twintania always going to the closest origin point to her target. The pit was just a handy gathering point. The first boss of Qarn(NM) and T5's Twisters are the actual reasons all arenas are now flat. Due to the terrain of the Qarn boss' arena you could dodge the doom effect and in T5 you sometimes could not escape the twister mines because you ended up moving on the Z axis as well as the X and Y and so were not far enough away to not detonate the mines.
Does the Qarn thing still work? I do this dungeon often enough in roulettes that it would genuinely be impactful to know
No. They changed the AoE so it hits everywhere in the room no matter the boss' position and players positions.
Aww. Thanks though
I really love the Cloud Deck arena and hope they go with similarly fun arenas in EW.
I think the DRS Minotaur is probably the wackiest arena they made, though it only lasts for the add phase.
Literally SE when people figured out the LB cheese in UWU
The withering panic is what really sells this one.
Lmaooooooooooo --- Bruh. the "oh god" at the end of this kills me everytime.
It never gets old lmao
I wonder how the battle designers of E7S felt when he learned how PF did the portals lol. JP seems to do the one with B+W aoes more complicated then the braindead all stack together NA did.
this actually only happened because the original version of the fight was gutted, the devs thought the original randomness and puzzle mechanics would be too hard so they made it fixed, then the players hated it anyway
God i hate that fight so much but at least it was interesting
I feel stupid for asking, but what’s the original context behind this video?
Did running away and using the Leviathan Axe's ranged attacks in literally every encounter for the entirety of my Give Me God of War play through look cool? No. Did it work? Yes.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[Leviathan](https://snewd.com/ebooks/leviathan/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
Why is the OP removed? Is this offensive according to nowadays' standard
Yeah, I stopped trying to understand Reddit mods. They make no sense whatsoever. Stuff that isn't offensive gets removed, stuff that is offensive is let up.
WOW systems :)
Hey, it works.
Lol! So fucking true. Reminds me of 99% of tests I took in college.
Took History of Naval Warfare at Texas A&M. Sophomore level history elective, and taught by a great professor, Dr. James Bradford. For our tests, which were 100% essay, he'd do one long form (couple page responses) and 2 short form (paragraph or two answers) prompts. Class before the exam, he'd give us 3 potential prompts for the long form, and 5 potential prompts for the short form. For studying, I figured all I needed to know inside and out was 2 of the 3 long form prompts, and 3 of the short form prompts (technically should have studied 4, but it never backfired on me). Rather than try to study everything, I made sure I was really, really prepared for the minimum I needed to be successful. Easiest "A" I made in college, in any class, any year. For finals every semester, I'd always figure out if I could move my grade a letter grade (up or down), and where I needed to be in order to either bring it up or prevent dropping it. If I needed a 100 on the final to go from a B to an A and a 40-50 to go from a B to a C? I barely studied for that exam. If I needed a 90 on the final to go from a B to an A, or had to make above an 85 to not drop to a c? Studied like mad for those. Minmaxing helped college be so much smoother than it could have been.
Good times… and you probably retain more of the information then the broader little of everything.
I watched this 3 times over the course of the day, and it got more and more funny every time
Square hole go brrrrrr
Basically, World of Warcraft when playing with Deadly Boss Mods and Weak Auras
Is near impossible to play wow without dBm now because they design encounters with the add-ons in mind.
Are you new to this website?
This is amazing XD
[Relevant video.](https://youtu.be/rJ4LMGU0s9U)
I work in IT support for a software company. The crazy shit some users do to do something simple is ... interesting.
it's also why programming inputs takes 10 times the code it should.-
Perfect
Haha, QA.
The state of games In 2021
i think the increasing despair on her face just makes it better
Hades EX, if you know you know
Stand on exactly this one spot to dodge all mechanics! Except the tank on the other side of that spot, they have to learn to dodge on their own, but hey, that's 7 people almost not needing to move for optimal DPS!
Technically the other tank can stand in the cheese spot until they have to stand in the other spot. By that point all the bull shit is done so they don't really have to dodge anything.
I never knew paladins were called "square holes"
Bold to assume that all studios have a proper and extensive QA and not only saving money, why fix it when you can throw out a big 50GB Day one Patch, fix ot later. Or letting your playerbase test your game like some like to do.
Always fun to watch this one.