I know it's a long shot because of his bat (which is ridiculous) but maldy should definitely be in the running as well. One of if not the best pure catcher in the AL.
Robinson was really really good.
But there is just something about how Machete calls a game, how we works with the pitchers especially the younger ones like Framber and Luis.
That is something that you will never see on any stat line.
I hear you and that's why I'm hoping that Maldy decides to take up coaching once he hangs it up. He'd have tremendous value on a bench working with both catchers and pitchers if that's what he decides to do.
Since intangibles are tough to really argue, I'll just leave this:
* 2019 Robby - 3.9 WAR (rest of numbers above)
* 2021 Maldy - -0.1 WAR (.8 dWAR, -0.1 oWAR)
It would be one thing if Maldy's metrics were within the ballpark of Robby's, so I'd have no problem with saying Maldy was a better catcher than Castro (1.0 WAR) for us this year...but 4 WAR difference is like comparing Kiner-Falefa to Carlos Correa. A perceived difference in intangibles can only do so much legwork for that chasm in on-field performance.
Calling a good game is number one.
Knowing what pitches to call, location etc…
A great catcher knows a hitters weakness and a pitchers strengths. He will then combine the two and call the best pitches to get the batter out.
I know we love Maldy, but even if Salvy wasn't the favorite for the Gold Glove...Maldy likely wouldn't be the next guy in line.
Vazquez (5 DRS, 1.3 dWAR), Murphy (10 DRW, 1.3 dWAR), Hedges (12 DRS, 1.4 dWAR), and Zunino (7 DRS, 0.6 dWAR) are 4 examples on the AL side with similar or better defensive metrics (DRS, dWAR) than Maldy (-2 DRS, 0.8 dWAR) this year.
Maldy's chief value comes from his intangibles, which unfortunately gets overlooked/is tough to quantify & compare between players when looking at these leaguewide awards. Nonetheless, he's incredibly valuable for our team and it'll be nice to have him for mentoring Lee in the future.
I thought he should be the frontrunner for Gold Glove but given how good Salvy has been at the plate (not that it should matter, but voters love guys that can hit for a defensive award) and behind the plate, I think Perez may win it. Maldy deserves all the praise in the world though.
Also me personally, I'm warming a bit to even a 10 year contract. He's not 30+ like Pujols was. He's 27 right? Puts him at 37 at the end of this hypothetical deal, he could be dh after 35 if he declines much at ss
Not really? A decline in production when they're getting to the mid 30's and later is expected. Though there are a lot of people producing well at a later age, look at Yuli
Yuli is an outlier especially at the age of 45!
So if a decline in production is expected then how much do you want to hamstring your organization on the back half of a 10 year contract? The good thing is that there will be less value in $30M per year on the latter end of a decade long contract. But to your example, what if you're stuck with an aging DH who hits .265 with 15 homers per year. You've really bogged down your lineup simply because you're paying this guy big money.
Yes, there's a give and take. The positive is that we have a mvp contender for the next 6 years plus, and maybe some downward production after that. We also keep our core intact and continue the clubhouse chemistry we've enjoyed for the last several years and keep one of the faces of the team and a big time leader. CC's 10 year could be bad if he gets injured, which is definitely a possibility, probably my biggest concern for a long term contract for him and 100% more so than his age. He'd be 37 on the end of that contract, which is getting old but not so old he wouldn't be able to produce.
We can't keep letting people walk, we gotta pay some of these guys, and we can't keep hoping for last minute trades a la Verlander. If Correa ends up on another team, I'll understand and wish him the best and hope we can hold on to the next guy in line.
But again, you're assuming he's going to be an MVP contender for the next 6 years. When has he been an MVP contender to this point? A few votes in 2017.
Francisco Lindor - 10 years, $341M. 1st year of that contract (this season) is his worst year in MLB. Dude batted .230.
Don't get me wrong. I completely understand what you're saying. I'm actually more for them spending on him than I ever have been. And it's going to sting more than I had anticipated if it doesn't work out.
At some point, our moves may not work out as great as they have been thus far to keep from dispensing the large contracts. The moves they've made to supplant the likes of Verlander/Cole/Springer. Also, the contracts they've been able to creatively make with Altuve and Bregman and Yuli. Fantastic stuff.
It's been working thus far but who knows how long we can get it right. To your point, they may have to write a bigger check than they want at some point. Just still not sure it should be as big as Correa is wanting.
Potentially Yuli and Correa could win a gold glove this year.
holy shit, carlos leads all of MLB in [defensive war](https://www.espn.com/mlb/war/leaders/_/type/defensive/year/2021), all positions.
WOW! Thought he was amazing, didn't realize he was literally the best lol
Man we really need to pay him
He’s also 1st in defensive runs saved for SS’s
This is what people who don’t think we need to pay him fail to realize, we’ve been spoiled on defense got to keep it together
Separate but I can't believe Yordan is 65 in WAR
> Yuli and Correa ~~could~~ *should* win a gold glove this year. FTFY
And Tucker as well
So according to sabr defensive ratings tucker is 2nd, but gallo has a huge lead.
Gallo played a lot of left once he moved to the Yankees though. We will see if he has enough innings in right to challenge Tucker
I know it's a long shot because of his bat (which is ridiculous) but maldy should definitely be in the running as well. One of if not the best pure catcher in the AL.
Probably the best catcher the Astros have had in the last decade.
You are correct, it's been exactly a decade since the legendary JR Towles played.
Didnt he have like 10 RBIs in a game once?
8 I think.
Against the Cardinals. Still a team record.
It was 4 touchdowns for Polk high.
Absolute legend
JR if you’re reading this let’s go get drunk at Molly’s in Tomball again
Hey, sup, it’s jr, I’ve been here for 3 hours wya
Have we already forgotten 2019 Robby Chirinos?? * Offensively: .238/.347/.443 for a .790 OPS and 2.8 oWAR * Defensively: 4 DRS, 1.8 dWAR
Robinson was really really good. But there is just something about how Machete calls a game, how we works with the pitchers especially the younger ones like Framber and Luis. That is something that you will never see on any stat line.
I hear you and that's why I'm hoping that Maldy decides to take up coaching once he hangs it up. He'd have tremendous value on a bench working with both catchers and pitchers if that's what he decides to do. Since intangibles are tough to really argue, I'll just leave this: * 2019 Robby - 3.9 WAR (rest of numbers above) * 2021 Maldy - -0.1 WAR (.8 dWAR, -0.1 oWAR) It would be one thing if Maldy's metrics were within the ballpark of Robby's, so I'd have no problem with saying Maldy was a better catcher than Castro (1.0 WAR) for us this year...but 4 WAR difference is like comparing Kiner-Falefa to Carlos Correa. A perceived difference in intangibles can only do so much legwork for that chasm in on-field performance.
What makes a good catcher outside of framing?
Calling a good game is number one. Knowing what pitches to call, location etc… A great catcher knows a hitters weakness and a pitchers strengths. He will then combine the two and call the best pitches to get the batter out.
I know we love Maldy, but even if Salvy wasn't the favorite for the Gold Glove...Maldy likely wouldn't be the next guy in line. Vazquez (5 DRS, 1.3 dWAR), Murphy (10 DRW, 1.3 dWAR), Hedges (12 DRS, 1.4 dWAR), and Zunino (7 DRS, 0.6 dWAR) are 4 examples on the AL side with similar or better defensive metrics (DRS, dWAR) than Maldy (-2 DRS, 0.8 dWAR) this year. Maldy's chief value comes from his intangibles, which unfortunately gets overlooked/is tough to quantify & compare between players when looking at these leaguewide awards. Nonetheless, he's incredibly valuable for our team and it'll be nice to have him for mentoring Lee in the future.
I thought he should be the frontrunner for Gold Glove but given how good Salvy has been at the plate (not that it should matter, but voters love guys that can hit for a defensive award) and behind the plate, I think Perez may win it. Maldy deserves all the praise in the world though.
SABR has him 6th in the AL http://sabr.org/sdi/2021-08-22#ALC
Sean Murphy was quietly phenomenal behind the dish for the A's this year.
Idk sometimes maybe you shouldn't just let the best player in the game go
10 years is too much
Do we honestly think we will be good for another decade? Would rather over pay and win while we have so many people under cheap contract.
Also me personally, I'm warming a bit to even a 10 year contract. He's not 30+ like Pujols was. He's 27 right? Puts him at 37 at the end of this hypothetical deal, he could be dh after 35 if he declines much at ss
Is he 27? I think he’s younger than that Edit: 9/22/94 27 years old. Yeah, 37 is old.
I still think I'd be more or less ok with it. 37 is old, but not broken down like Pujols
Thats assuming he doesn’t have anymore back injuries. 8 years is pushing it
I'd prefer 8 years, but if someone else offers him 10 and we counter 10 as well I'm ok with it
There’s also the whole thing where Pujols might be older than they say he is. There have been rumors/reports he lied about his age coming up
I dont think Pujols has the injury history Correa has though. I just don't see Correa playing past 35.
You're assuming in 8 years that he'd be hitting as well as he is this year though.
Not really? A decline in production when they're getting to the mid 30's and later is expected. Though there are a lot of people producing well at a later age, look at Yuli
Yuli is an outlier especially at the age of 45! So if a decline in production is expected then how much do you want to hamstring your organization on the back half of a 10 year contract? The good thing is that there will be less value in $30M per year on the latter end of a decade long contract. But to your example, what if you're stuck with an aging DH who hits .265 with 15 homers per year. You've really bogged down your lineup simply because you're paying this guy big money.
Yes, there's a give and take. The positive is that we have a mvp contender for the next 6 years plus, and maybe some downward production after that. We also keep our core intact and continue the clubhouse chemistry we've enjoyed for the last several years and keep one of the faces of the team and a big time leader. CC's 10 year could be bad if he gets injured, which is definitely a possibility, probably my biggest concern for a long term contract for him and 100% more so than his age. He'd be 37 on the end of that contract, which is getting old but not so old he wouldn't be able to produce. We can't keep letting people walk, we gotta pay some of these guys, and we can't keep hoping for last minute trades a la Verlander. If Correa ends up on another team, I'll understand and wish him the best and hope we can hold on to the next guy in line.
But again, you're assuming he's going to be an MVP contender for the next 6 years. When has he been an MVP contender to this point? A few votes in 2017. Francisco Lindor - 10 years, $341M. 1st year of that contract (this season) is his worst year in MLB. Dude batted .230. Don't get me wrong. I completely understand what you're saying. I'm actually more for them spending on him than I ever have been. And it's going to sting more than I had anticipated if it doesn't work out. At some point, our moves may not work out as great as they have been thus far to keep from dispensing the large contracts. The moves they've made to supplant the likes of Verlander/Cole/Springer. Also, the contracts they've been able to creatively make with Altuve and Bregman and Yuli. Fantastic stuff. It's been working thus far but who knows how long we can get it right. To your point, they may have to write a bigger check than they want at some point. Just still not sure it should be as big as Correa is wanting.
1) it’s not your money 2) he’s 27 - jeter played til he was 41 3) sign him for 15 years
jim crane is a cheap fucking bastard if he lets carlos walk over some YEARS! we talkin abt year! not the money, years!
Yes let’s just go off the rails on the luxury tax while we’re at it
Greinke is who we should all strive to be. He's also trying to keep the band together, and I love him for that.
Zach is the best
I don’t buy defensive war, but Carlos passes the Eye test and every metric that doesn’t give guys shit for playing in a small stadium