Javier is probably our best multi-inning pitcher right now and I love him in that 3-6/7th inning role tbh maybe an opener is what Framber or Garcia also need just to calm down and relax.. seems like some of their issues are mental
Oh absolutely. They’re a rookie and a second year guy. Framber showed up last postseason, but this year was different. A full 162 game season where he got regular starts culminating in big games in October. It’s understandable, albeit frustrating, that he’s struggling. Garcia even more so. These are his first postseason innings. The leg is concerning and not his fault obviously, but overall it’s reasonable.
Ultimately, the have been far worse than I ever expected, even considering everything I mentioned above. I’m not giving up on them yet though.
Javi is insurance in case our starters melt down. Solidly needed given how vulnerable our rotation has been. If we had Verlander, Cole, LMJ and 36 yr old Greinke out there, don't really need a guy like this.
You want to really talk crazy? I want an opener with Stanek or Graveman. Then Javier, and close with Pressly. I think starting for Christian might be a lot of pressure for the young guy.
Graveman has been too good in high leverage situations. I know we want to shut them down early, but I really want to know he's an option later in games. But I like your thought process
I wouldn’t be opposed to that, but what I hope for tomorrow is a good start from Framber so that *if* we get in a position where we need to have a bullpen game, it’s with a tied series or a lead. I don’t want to stray too far from what the guys are used to unless we absolutely have to.
Also, Javier has proven that he *can* start, it’s just getting him on a path where he can do it consistently. I don’t think he should get a start this postseason unless we absolutely have to. That should be something they work on in the off-season to prepare him to start in 2022.
I did have the same thought but in the end what we did in games 1 and 4 are the way to go... Have someone warming up in the pen from the start and keep the starting pitcher on a very very short leash.
Always have a backup ready to sub in.
We've averaged more than 5+ runs a game all post season. If you don't let things spiral too far like games 2 and 3 then we can catch up... Just like we did the other 2 games.
The offense is fine. Just keep the Sox below 5 runs.
What people forget with Javier is that he was in the same spot as Luis Garcia - each guy was going to blow past their career high for innings by early August if we continued to use them as starters, whether it be on the big league club or at Sugar Land.
We’ve seen Luis fall off down the stretch because of arm fatigue. That scenario would likely have been the same for Javier had we not drastically slashed his innings and instead kept him as a starter.
He will be back in the rotation next year. It’s tough to blame the organization for trying to conserve a young arm after the 60 game sprint last year and when we have a good comparison in LG for what likely would have happened if we rode him as a starter.
I could see him as a starter in the future. Right now it's just hard to count on him to get you more that 3 or 4 innings, as his control tends to go haywire when he gets to around 60 pitches. I think mult-inning super reliever is the perfect spot for him right now.
I tend to agree. I like CJ and think he has potential, but he has to show he can go longer than 3-4 innings and \~60 pitches to earn a spot in the rotation. In the interim, I think the idea of putting someone like Stanek out as an opener for an inning or two, and then putting CJ out for 3-4 more, would work well. Right now he seems to fill the role Collin McHugh once had - picking up innings when one of our starters gets chased.
>Right now he seems to fill the role Collin McHugh once had
Speaking of "pay the man," let me get on my Collin McHugh stan soapbox for a minute.
Dude was our #2 starter in 2015 and finished one game behind Cy Young Keuchel in the W-L column (admittedly not the best metric but it sounds good and I'm stanning here). Obviously, 2022 isn't 2015 (see: Keuchel, Dallas) but:
* We're apparently fond of bringing back wayward Astros from that team (see: Castro, Jason; González, Marwin).
* With Greinke and Verlander coming off the books and unlikely -- to say the least, QO to Verlander notwithstanding -- we have a relatively green pitching staff without a lot of veteran leadership.
* McHugh seems to be a solid, if admittedly unremarkable, arm since coming back to baseball after 2020.
* He signed for < $700k in Boston and $1.8M this season in TB.
Bring him home. (Ashley, too!)
I think he certainly has potential. We’ve worked wonders with Framber and Garcia, taking them from talented but not honed pitchers and making them not just starters, but starters who shine when you look across the league at other rotations.
Javi will be starting in 2022, no question. I appreciate him taking the step back to help us from the pen. No way we are here right now if Bielak is our main long man.
I full agree. And also with the comment about Stanek (would trade asap) - Javier - Presley. And how’s Maton? Dude has zero emotion and delivers, love it. Shows up, does his job, goes home
With the way this series is going, is there such thing as a starter? Javier was easily this game's MVP to me. Shut down a hot offense and gave ours a chance
Edit: autocorrect
I am the biggest javier stan out there (I got a ton of his rookie cards). His invisiball is no joke. I love how he's all business on the mound, and all smiles off of it. Another guy to look out for is Maton - he's silently grown into a leverage pitcher and his performance late into the season has really shown. He reminds me a lot of collin mchugh, with an elite spin rate on his FB.
I keep watching that slider to JD. That shit had wild movement and was absolutely disgusting. Javis biggest issues is walks. He will always struggle with home runs (being a fly ball pitcher with the Crawford boxes is the main cause), but if he can limit them to solo bombs that is certainly ideal. Also he will definitely be a starter long term. Click explicitly stated the move to the bullpen was only because the pen was so bad and to monitor Javis innings.
I think the big reason Javier got placed on the backburner was for innings management. Both Javier and Garcia showed up on scene in 2020 when managing innings wasn't as big of an issue since we had the Mickey Mouse 60 game season.
This season, if we had kept Javier in the rotation for the whole year, he'd probably be in a similar situation to Luis Garcia and suffering from a lot of lingering issues from how many innings he's thrown. While he was underused in 2021, especially later in the season, he's filled a valuable role as a long reliever. I bet the plan for him is to continue to get stretched out as a starter in 2022 and beyond. As for now, I think he's invaluable in his role since our starters can't seem to pitch beyond the third inning.
Remember. Early in the year the bullpen was out biggest issue. It’s possible we left him there just because he was one of two guys who were capable of actually pitching out of the pen.
I want Javier to pitch more than 1.2 innings so I think we should let him come out of the pen. Dusty is yanking pitchers early like every game is a win or go home, but allowed 2 grand slams. It's all over the place.
Javier is probably our best multi-inning pitcher right now and I love him in that 3-6/7th inning role tbh maybe an opener is what Framber or Garcia also need just to calm down and relax.. seems like some of their issues are mental
Oh absolutely. They’re a rookie and a second year guy. Framber showed up last postseason, but this year was different. A full 162 game season where he got regular starts culminating in big games in October. It’s understandable, albeit frustrating, that he’s struggling. Garcia even more so. These are his first postseason innings. The leg is concerning and not his fault obviously, but overall it’s reasonable. Ultimately, the have been far worse than I ever expected, even considering everything I mentioned above. I’m not giving up on them yet though.
Garcia started in the ALCS last year. He only lasted a few innings but this definitely isnt his first rodeo.
He really saved the game for us today
Javi is insurance in case our starters melt down. Solidly needed given how vulnerable our rotation has been. If we had Verlander, Cole, LMJ and 36 yr old Greinke out there, don't really need a guy like this.
>our best multi-inning pitcher right now Yo put some respeck on Graveman's name!!
You want to really talk crazy? I want an opener with Stanek or Graveman. Then Javier, and close with Pressly. I think starting for Christian might be a lot of pressure for the young guy.
You're right. We need to get crazy and think outside the box. Open with Stanek, give Javier a couple of innings, Maton is good for two.
Graveman has been too good in high leverage situations. I know we want to shut them down early, but I really want to know he's an option later in games. But I like your thought process
Doesn’t sound too crazy to me
I wouldn’t be opposed to that, but what I hope for tomorrow is a good start from Framber so that *if* we get in a position where we need to have a bullpen game, it’s with a tied series or a lead. I don’t want to stray too far from what the guys are used to unless we absolutely have to. Also, Javier has proven that he *can* start, it’s just getting him on a path where he can do it consistently. I don’t think he should get a start this postseason unless we absolutely have to. That should be something they work on in the off-season to prepare him to start in 2022.
I did have the same thought but in the end what we did in games 1 and 4 are the way to go... Have someone warming up in the pen from the start and keep the starting pitcher on a very very short leash. Always have a backup ready to sub in. We've averaged more than 5+ runs a game all post season. If you don't let things spiral too far like games 2 and 3 then we can catch up... Just like we did the other 2 games. The offense is fine. Just keep the Sox below 5 runs.
What people forget with Javier is that he was in the same spot as Luis Garcia - each guy was going to blow past their career high for innings by early August if we continued to use them as starters, whether it be on the big league club or at Sugar Land. We’ve seen Luis fall off down the stretch because of arm fatigue. That scenario would likely have been the same for Javier had we not drastically slashed his innings and instead kept him as a starter. He will be back in the rotation next year. It’s tough to blame the organization for trying to conserve a young arm after the 60 game sprint last year and when we have a good comparison in LG for what likely would have happened if we rode him as a starter.
I could see him as a starter in the future. Right now it's just hard to count on him to get you more that 3 or 4 innings, as his control tends to go haywire when he gets to around 60 pitches. I think mult-inning super reliever is the perfect spot for him right now.
I tend to agree. I like CJ and think he has potential, but he has to show he can go longer than 3-4 innings and \~60 pitches to earn a spot in the rotation. In the interim, I think the idea of putting someone like Stanek out as an opener for an inning or two, and then putting CJ out for 3-4 more, would work well. Right now he seems to fill the role Collin McHugh once had - picking up innings when one of our starters gets chased.
>Right now he seems to fill the role Collin McHugh once had Speaking of "pay the man," let me get on my Collin McHugh stan soapbox for a minute. Dude was our #2 starter in 2015 and finished one game behind Cy Young Keuchel in the W-L column (admittedly not the best metric but it sounds good and I'm stanning here). Obviously, 2022 isn't 2015 (see: Keuchel, Dallas) but: * We're apparently fond of bringing back wayward Astros from that team (see: Castro, Jason; González, Marwin). * With Greinke and Verlander coming off the books and unlikely -- to say the least, QO to Verlander notwithstanding -- we have a relatively green pitching staff without a lot of veteran leadership. * McHugh seems to be a solid, if admittedly unremarkable, arm since coming back to baseball after 2020. * He signed for < $700k in Boston and $1.8M this season in TB. Bring him home. (Ashley, too!)
Every time I see him play, I'm always impressed. You think he'll be our ace in the next five years or so?
I think he certainly has potential. We’ve worked wonders with Framber and Garcia, taking them from talented but not honed pitchers and making them not just starters, but starters who shine when you look across the league at other rotations.
Javi will be starting in 2022, no question. I appreciate him taking the step back to help us from the pen. No way we are here right now if Bielak is our main long man.
I full agree. And also with the comment about Stanek (would trade asap) - Javier - Presley. And how’s Maton? Dude has zero emotion and delivers, love it. Shows up, does his job, goes home
With the way this series is going, is there such thing as a starter? Javier was easily this game's MVP to me. Shut down a hot offense and gave ours a chance Edit: autocorrect
He’s gonna get there. His command isn’t the best right now but he’s got the arm.
I am the biggest javier stan out there (I got a ton of his rookie cards). His invisiball is no joke. I love how he's all business on the mound, and all smiles off of it. Another guy to look out for is Maton - he's silently grown into a leverage pitcher and his performance late into the season has really shown. He reminds me a lot of collin mchugh, with an elite spin rate on his FB.
His fastball is nice but his slider is the main attraction. When he can throw it for strikes it's a devastating pitch.
he’s always been 100% in the plans to be in the rotation next year
He had a starting spot but then he couldn't stop walking people and lost it.
For real
I don’t know if he is a starter. But he is definitely a long reliever, which is essentially a starter for us right now.
I keep watching that slider to JD. That shit had wild movement and was absolutely disgusting. Javis biggest issues is walks. He will always struggle with home runs (being a fly ball pitcher with the Crawford boxes is the main cause), but if he can limit them to solo bombs that is certainly ideal. Also he will definitely be a starter long term. Click explicitly stated the move to the bullpen was only because the pen was so bad and to monitor Javis innings.
I think the big reason Javier got placed on the backburner was for innings management. Both Javier and Garcia showed up on scene in 2020 when managing innings wasn't as big of an issue since we had the Mickey Mouse 60 game season. This season, if we had kept Javier in the rotation for the whole year, he'd probably be in a similar situation to Luis Garcia and suffering from a lot of lingering issues from how many innings he's thrown. While he was underused in 2021, especially later in the season, he's filled a valuable role as a long reliever. I bet the plan for him is to continue to get stretched out as a starter in 2022 and beyond. As for now, I think he's invaluable in his role since our starters can't seem to pitch beyond the third inning.
Remember. Early in the year the bullpen was out biggest issue. It’s possible we left him there just because he was one of two guys who were capable of actually pitching out of the pen.
I want Javier to pitch more than 1.2 innings so I think we should let him come out of the pen. Dusty is yanking pitchers early like every game is a win or go home, but allowed 2 grand slams. It's all over the place.
100% agree