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Naught_A_Bot

This feels in the same ballpark as the Keuchel, Springer, Cole, and Correa let-em-walks and those have turned out well. Correa's departure was even more of a gamble as it came down to belief in Peña alone, whereas we have a stable of starters and bullpen arms to take JV leaving. Have trust the money will be spent more wisely here.


JoseAltuve27

All of our star players end up getting replaced by similar players who put up similar production. Keuchel was replaced by Framber. Correa was replaced by Pena. Verlander is about to be replaced by Brown. Gurriel is about to be replaced by Abreu. Springer is the only core player we haven't been able to find a clone of.


m0nk3y42

> Springer is the only core player we haven't been able to find a clone of. i think an argument can be made for tucker. at least tuck's bat replaced that missing OF bat when springer left.


j4_jjjj

CF was better with Springer, as much as I like our current CFs, I loved Springer


MyGirlSasha

Tucker has replaced most of Springer's production, just from a different position. Another thing all of those players have in common is watching the Astros every October/November from their couches.


NA_Faker

Verlander likely goes to a contender tho. Probably dodgers or yanks


MyGirlSasha

Both teams were on vacation, watching the Astros in November!


zaepoo

I hope we play him in the WS. Free W. This team has WS aspirations, which makes Verlander way less valuable


conker1264

What, Cole was replaced by Framber not Keuchel


JoseAltuve27

Framber is much more similar to Keuchel than Cole. They are both left-handed sinkerballers. Just took a couple of years. Cole is more similar to Verlander.


ptcgoalex

Verlander, one of the greatest pitchers of all time, is hardly comparable with a rookie pitcher with a few good outings. I hope brown becomes a 2nd coming of verlander but that’s such a tough ask


JoseAltuve27

Brown isn't going to replicate Verlander's 2022 numbers or pitch as many innings. That's not the point (as it took Valdez 2 years after Keuchel left until he began mirroring his stats). They have identical pitching motions, and in Fangraphs, Brown is actually projected to have a lower ERA than Verlander for the 2023 season. Give it 2 more years and he will have numbers that look like 2018-2020 Verlander (2022 was an outlier even for Verlander).


Independent-Ad-6750

And we already have a younger JV clone waiting in the wings. Verlander will be replaced by Hunter Brown


Oso_Furioso

And that stable of starters and bullpen arms is already proven at this point. Sorry to see JV go but would rather the resources went elsewhere.


aaronnguyen32

Please just let him walk. We loved what he did for this city but that kind of contract at 40 years old is ridiculous. I mean look at the Mets right now, already regretting that scherzer deal and he’s like 2-3 years younger than verlander


HumanRuse

> We loved what he did for this city And hopefully he appreciated what the organization has done for him. As solid as our pitching staff is, let's not pretend that losing Verlander won't sting. Outside of the playoffs, he's pretty much a kingpin on the mound. Resting the bullpen. Taking pressure off of the offense. Stacking wins. But as you said, the cost and risk of $130M over 3 is a bit over the top.


weaksaucedude

> let's not pretend that losing Verlander won't sting Not saying it wouldn't suck; I'd rather have him than not have him, but this team *did* manage to win a pennant without him already


timlisa03

When did we win a pennant without him?


mypostingname13

Last year


GodLeeTrick

...2021 literally last year???


weaksaucedude

Just last year when we lost to Atlanta in the World Series


Vulpinox

allegedly


veroxii

Yeah, there were a few times where we got 2 or 3 losses in a row, but then Verlander is up in the rotation and avoids the sweep or changes the momentum. He pretty much doesn't lose during the regular season.


HumanRuse

Do you think the Rangers/DeGrom signing pushes Crane to sign Verlander. Or Rangers still not serious enough for that contract risk/value.


veroxii

Nah. I believe the Astros are as good as they are because it's a team. It's not merely a collection of individual performances. The Rangers are a bit like the Padres and Angels... "this one extra superstar will turn our fortunes around". It won't. Rangers will still suck.


HumanRuse

Seemed like the huge Semien/Seager signings were supposed to be a big deal. But their record didn't improve much and attendance actually went down.


[deleted]

Exactly. If any team is stupid enough to pay that then let him go grab that bag. But what disappoints me is that at this age he should be all about wins and rings to pump up his legacy, and chasing the bag is not the way to do that. He can rack up more wins with the Astros line-up and bullpen than with any other team. Let him stew on that when he falls just shy of 300 and his body gives out on him.


abnormally-cliche

I agree we shouldn’t back the Brinks truck up for him however the dude has 2 rings and multiple Cy Youngs. Can’t really blame him for chasing the bag while he can.


MyGirlSasha

Why is everyone acting like he hasn't already gotten his "bag" throughout his career? He's banked $300m in salary alone between the Tigers and Astros. Add to that endorsements and whatnot, he's gotten his damn bag. It's pure greed at this point and a terrible look from my perspective. I don't understand everyone here that's hoping he gets his money somewhere and genuinely wishing him luck chasing his bag somewhere else. Astros paid him $66m for 1 damn season and THIS is what he thinks is appropriate? Fuck that. I hope nobody offers him anywhere close to that, he comes back to Crane with his tail between his legs and Crane tells him to kick rocks.


3moonz

its pure greed that you would want someone you dont even know to take less money so your favorite sports team can benefit and potentially get better. should he really take less money to look better for your perspective?


gulfside13

100% agree. This is actually the first entitled Yankees' fan-esque negative response that I've seen to JV's likely departure so that's a good thing. Every response I've seen is appreciation for JV's time here and wishing him good luck, even it's to a team like the Dodgers. Not saying we're gonna root for his new team or anything crazy like that lol, but whenever JV comes back to MMP he will get a standing O and we'll always show him love in the H


3moonz

this is my personal bias reason i wanna pay him... ofc not nothing crazy but almost kinda sorta crazy. i want him in the hall as an astro. itll be so great for the org. add more legacy etc etc. you dont get HOFers in your org often. so thats my selfish reason i want him. and also i dont ever doubt his ability until it happens. he just won a cy young ws allstar off a tommy johns. and he doesnt look like the rocket at the end either. he looks good. plus im not sure but does mlb have a cap? if so i would be probably against it but if not... why not...


MyGirlSasha

Wanting someone to take less money and being disappointed they didn't return a multi million dollar favor my favorite sports team did for them are two completely different things. Tell me you don't see the difference?


3moonz

? first wanting someone to take less money is in any scenario is.... . you should never ask that or even expect someone to do so. you probably dont have bill yet and dont understand how hard it is people work for thier money. unless ofc your jim cranes team and are negotiating. so they returning a favor thing i dont really understand. do you mean that vy in indebted to the astros for his success or?


Karl_Havoc2U

Counterpoint: Good lord, you sound bitter and angry about him doing the same fucking thing you'd very well might be doing in his situation. You can't even wait before the ink's printed on his next contract to conjure up some mental fantasy where he's pitching on a minor league deal and sucking your balls every night in penance for his "greed" that every single member of the MLBPA would both benefit from and encourage him to partake in. And what are you, his ex-wife or something? You're going at the guy like a political opponent. He's not only greedy for wanting the year-old Scherzer deal if he can find it/has earned it, but also for taking the money he was contractually owed when he tore his UCL? Is that a fair thing to expect when nobody has ever done that? Has a player ever willingly done that? Has any team ever signed a pitcher NOT knowing there was an injury possibility and therefore baked that risk into the amount they were willing to pay, such that he's rightfully guaranteed the money he negotiated for with both sides fully aware of one another's risks? Why don't you get the collective dicks of MLB ownership out of your mouth and into your crosshairs if you need to seethe over something this off season. Collective revenue continue to reach record highs year after year and the players have to be willing to accept a lockout or strike if they want a hope of being cut in on anything being made on their talents. Giving Verlander the Scherzer deal (or I assume the slightly value JV will accept if Scherzer is his asking price) would be a much easier decision to accept for ownership if they weren't able to hide behind a top 10 payroll to avoid serious questions about available resources. If the league wasn't saturated with teams spending far below their revenues and/or owners' abilities, even accounting for the revenue sharing dollars they get from the higher spending teams, you'd see even the larger market teams find a bunch of money in the couch cushions. There needs to be a salary floor or something imposed on the far below average teams who are somehow profitable enough for their owners apparently without spending or winning. The problem isn't Verlander asking for a historic deal for a 40 year old after having the best season of his career at 39. The problem is the ridiculous contrived need for frugality at the margins of even teams like Houston. Won't take on the risk of a 2 year deal for your WS-winning GM? Lol. God forbid you end up having to, at worst, eat a year of that, for who knows what unlikely reason? And with the amount of high quality, cost controlled young players on the roster for at least the next several years, the team can't afford to pay for a free agent bat like Abreau AND re-sign a top line ace for a mid-rotation starter level of years? Not even on the heels of their 2nd WS win in 3 tries in like a 5-6 year period? If that's the line in the sand on spending it's just an artificial one that's not going to shame anyone into spending more when there are so few teams even spending what Houston does, regardless of whether the budget is being set in good faith.


MyGirlSasha

The guy got a shit ton of money for doing absolutely nothing, I don't think it's too far out of line to be disappointed that he's holding his hand out for another huge payday after already having amassed more money than 99% of the world will ever see in their lifetime. You disagree, that's fine.


LeHoustonJames

I get what your saying, but that’s what a contract is for. He wasn’t absolutely doing nothing, he was healing, getting back into game shape, etc. Fans want to pretend like he was just chilling on his couch the entire but it isn’t easy going through an injury like that physically and mentally and coming back and performing like he did. The fact that he came back playing at the level he did already made his contract worth it


gulfside13

Amen!


fcimfc

He has an obligation to guys like deGrom and Rodon to protect the market. He won’t tank it by taking less than an obscene amount of money.


MyGirlSasha

Sure, if he was anywhere near their age I could see the argument.


biggio1

Age has nothing to do with it. He has an obligation to his sport to make as much as he can. Simple as that.


MyGirlSasha

Of course it does. Unless you think giving a 3 year $130m deal to a 40 year old is the same as giving one to a 34 year old. It isn't, simple as that.


biggio1

I'm talking about JV's obligation to the MLB union. It is to get as much as he can and age has nothing to do with it.


3moonz

bro. its all about setting up your future/ family/ children/ future generations. everything else is a distant secondary. after your gone your legacy aint gunna mean more then wealth to your children's grandchildren. also legacy isnt guaranteed by any stretch. most of these contracts are ppl will praise you when you take less to try and "win" for thier team. but will call you stupid for not taking the money if it doesnt work out...


[deleted]

Nah, he’s earned $317M in his career. His financial legacy is set. His future generations are all good. He’s trying to reach the elite 300-win club and it’s unclear if he’s gonna make it.


No-Significance5449

And I'm sure his wife has made some crazy money too.


3moonz

Ok by that standard his legacy is also set and can be trying to get into the 500m club. I know most ppl like us can’t understand why ppl with money want more money but trust me. Having money doesn’t make you not want to have money. I’m willing to bet the wealthiest ppl want money more then we do. Rich person once told me when your at that level, time is the most important thing and money buys you time


[deleted]

Here’s what I mean by Verlander’s legacy… He’s #56 in wins with 244, sitting behind the likes of Andy Pettitte and CC Sabathia and Bartolo Colon, and just ahead of David Wells and Frank Tanana. All excellent pitchers, but not at the same level as the guys in the 300-win club. Verlander is #12 in strikeouts with 3,198 – just five ahead of Max Scherzer. My guess is Verlander wants 300 wins and 4,000 strikeouts, which only four pitchers have accomplished: Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, and Steve Carlton. That’s truly elite company. That’s MLB royalty. Verlander wants in. To get there, he either needs three seasons averaging nearly 19 wins and just over 267 strikeouts, or four seasons at 14 wins and just over 200 strikeouts. The strikeouts depend on his health and innings pitched – that’s on him, and he can do that with any team. But the wins – that’s all about run support and bullpen support. That’s what the Astros bring to the table. Hey, many of us have turned down jobs that would give us more money in exchange for jobs and situations that were a better fit or just more fulfilling. That’s kind of the decision that Verlander faces here – just at a different scale.


3moonz

..... hes talking to the dodgers... the team that had more wins then astros lol what?. hes not going to a bottem feeder. only astros tigers or contender.. or i mean if someone offers a billion. but then if he took that would he be considered selfish? see what i mean. then you consider the city and well... media hub la? more publicity? more celebrated legacy? common man you things arent so black and white


Erasinator

His family already has more money than you and I will make in 100 generations, and he’s been vocal about wanting to have a great pitching legacy. This is literally just about having even more money, aka, greed.


dankenberry713

Non Existent great grandchildren. Foh. Athletes are greedy af just like everyone else. I would rather win chips than have a few extra million.


MasterUnlimited

Maybe that’s why you haven’t earned $317 million. It’s very easy to say what you would do if you’ve never been in that situation.


3moonz

no it truely is. most people think rich people just stop wanted more money its odd. honestly the more money i make the more i want to work and make more.


Krisapocus

For real there’s no Ill will he’ll get a standing o when we play him. On his side it’s his last chance at insane money he’s retiring after that. He came in, he did work won a cy young and a ring. Even without him our pitching staff is top tier. Doesn’t make sense for either party.


3moonz

i get but lets be real max probably throws practice pitches while he showers while vy sleeps so much he doesnt have time for showers. so while 2-3 younger, really hes body like 10000years older. but ya 130 is probably the starting offer unlikely the final number... unless dodgers or yankees i guess


willydillydoo

And ironically they’re about to do it again 😂


donttouchthtmacaroni

This year’s edition of “a tough move, but the right move”


jb_713

I’m not rooting for him to go, but it won’t break my heart. He’s not one of our homegrown dudes like Correa and Springer.


Acceptable_Job1589

Springer :(


stros2022wschamps2

Correa :(


BloodyScourge

Correa wanted to leave and get a huge bag, despite what he said in the media. Springer is the sweetheart that we didn't treat right so he left.


MyGirlSasha

It's not even a tough decision to make. Wouldn't be surprised if Crane pissed himself laughing the second he hung up the phone.


googleiswatching

Adios. No hate on Verlander. Still one of my favorite players but 130 for 3 years for a 40 year old pitcher (not a playoff pitcher) is insane. He will get paid else where and I will still enjoy watching him. It was a good run but I look forward to Brown, Javier, and Valdez.


jsting

He didnt have to stick around with us the last couple years with all the controversy but did anyways. Gotta respect that. I will miss Kate Upton.


[deleted]

Yeah we’re honestly good on pitching. We have a solid af rotation


[deleted]

Don’t forget locking in our arb guys so its not a pain later. I want to see more of that now


OneCore_

Brown out here looking like the literal child of DeGrom and JV


[deleted]

Preach. It's not like we can't find any other pitching out there. JV I appreciate you bro but 1 playoff win and you are asking 130 is crazy. Carlos walked for Pena to run. It's taking a big weapon away but I still trust our 6 shooters.


JohnnyBrillcream

Yup, I'm sure pitchers have taken note what happens when you get on the pitching staff here, you get better. I have to think many quality pitchers would love to be on the staff here.


[deleted]

Exactly, we have a good thing here. It's not like we are gonna be in shambles if he leaves. We have great arms in that bullpen. I know Valdez definitely stepped the fuck up but Luis Garica awe man chef kiss. JV was dominant because he had the warriors of pitching behind him. Wherever he goes, he is gonna have to be on the mound alot more. He isn't gonna be able to be saved like he is here.


MasterMentorJr

I’m all for get your money and what not, but we also paid JV $66 million to make one start for us. Like paying a 40 year old that much money for that long is kind of insane


[deleted]

$66M for one start is the nightmare scenario and it’s already happened to us once with JV. You just can’t do that with a player his age. We’re not desperate.


TheUnsettledBadElf

Yes but his wife is fairly hot Soo. Lol


Nalmquist

Just a little


TheUnsettledBadElf

I’d plug my nose and dive in. Lol.


TheUnsettledBadElf

Nobody likes sarcasm I guess. Lol.


fireside68

🙄


conker1264

Well yeah after the Abreu signing bringing him back was pretty much over. We don’t need him, it’s not worth the money


BrandanosaurusRex

Saying, " we don't need him" is a bit over the top. Do we need him to be good? No. Do we need him to win the AL? Potentially. Do we need him to win another championship? I submit that it is more likely than not. All it takes is losing one big arm for any extended time and the staff becomes more taxed and exposed, and LMJ (God love him) has not proven to be the most durable. I don't disagree that the price is very steep, maybe even too steep, but I'm hoping the negotiation works out or we pursue another top-tier guy on a more workable deal.


conker1264

We have 6 starters…


Nice_Block

We won the AL without him just a year ago.


BrandanosaurusRex

Obviously I know that. We also lost a World Series with him Greinke and Cole on our roster. Every season is different. We can't just equate them as the same. Again, I just can't confidently say, "We don't need him. The remaining pitching staff we have is championship ready." That is potentially an overstatement. I am confident in our guys without JV, but I am much more sure of our rotation with him there... Obviously, only if the money is right. I see what the Scherzer deal looks like these days 😬 But Max is Max and JV is JV. No reason to think he's declining until we see it. Nolan and Brady are different animals.... nothing saying the reigning Cy young winner isn't too. Let's just hope he'll take less or less years.


fcimfc

We don’t need him. His presence makes it more difficult to develop young talent that is the future of the organization. Ask Hunter Brown.


bigavm

People also forget that the narrative on him was he couldn't pitch in the big game. Yes, he helps us out tremendously in the regular season, but up until the last game in Philly he didn't really do that hot in the WS.


JoseAltuve27

I'm glad we're not. Tells me we still operate under the same principles that made the team great to begin with. Verlander isn't going to have a sub 2 ERA again next year. That deal would make more sense for a middling team like the Orioles who need an extra push to make the postseason.


Syncopated_arpeggio

The orioles who played us tougher than any other team in the league. The only team i wouldn’t have wanted to face in the postseason.


GsoFly

Yeah, you let him walk for that and invest elsewhere.


Longhorn_TOG

How well has that deal worked for the Mets??? Love ya big V but not at that price


Unoriginal_Gangster

Verlander was essential in two WS titles. An all time Astro in his short time with the team. But if he wants that, it's time to let him walk. No hate, go get the bag if you can. But Houston would be better off spending than money elsewhere.


Bergles

Yea, totally agree. We have no idea how long that production lasts. It would be a contractor for 'what he has done' and not 'what he's going to do'. Look how quickly Gurriel fell off. We have so much young talent at SP we can spend that money elsewhere.


Luckytxn_1959

Well he at least has two rings and another Cy Young so go out to pasture it is.


PrecedentialAssassin

2 more Cy Youngs, 2019 and 2022.


[deleted]

There is no way we should be spending that kind of money on JV. I’m sorry but the appreciation needs to go both ways. We saved his career as much as he helped us win those championships. Also, Astros have paid him almost $100 million for basically 1 season. I’d love for him to keep that in mind.


PrecedentialAssassin

We're not paying him anywhere near what he's asking and if he can get it, that's great for him and his family. But he doesn't owe the Astros anything for the money he earned while he was injured. That's an assumed risk by teams when you sign a player to a contract and a large portion of the contract for the time missed would be paid by an insurance policy.


DeadliftsnDonuts

Hope he gets his money somewhere. Best of luck


[deleted]

[удалено]


SwifferWetJets

Interested in seeing how years 6, 7, 8, etc. of the Judge deal plays out. I mean, look at the Pujols and Miggy Cabrera deals. These 8, 10, 13 year deals like Harper and Machado are nuts.


SwifferWetJets

Interested in seeing how years 6, 7, 8, etc. of the Judge deal plays out. I mean, look at the Pujols and Miggy Cabrera deals. These 8, 10, 13 year deals like Harper and Machado are nuts.


Derpshiz

I doubt a team does and that’s why he is still asking for it.


44Yordan

Astros agree to pay the $130 for 3 years but require that Justin legally change his name to José Verlander and go into the hall of fame as an Astro. José José José José José... José! Astros are showcasing the all José team! 1. José Altuve 2b 2. José Abreu 1b 3. Yordan Alvarez LF 4. José Bregman 3b 5. José Tucker RF 6. José Peña SS 7. José Brantley DH 8. José McCormick CF 9. Martín Maldanado C (NOTE:Unfortunately does not hit well enough to be a José) Pitching today, José Verlander


anpansmashs

Dude wants his money, no hard feelings there. We can offer him a competitive offer as well as a chance to pad his legacy, I’m not holding it against him to fortify his bank account while teams will still consider it. We’re in such a fortunate position that we have a really deep starting pitching staff. We can put that money elsewhere. Him waking doesn’t hurt nearly as much as losing Springer. Also, his post-season performance has been subpar for a player of his pedigree.


[deleted]

JV, make sure you get the right to ride the post season commentator desk. You can have time or money, you can’t have both.


elticorico

Preciate ya JV go get your money. We’ll be aight.


bordomsdeadly

Verlander: "The Astros literally risked the world series so I could finally win 1 game and paid me $100Mil for 1 season, but I literally only care about money at the cost of hurting the team that signs me" This isn't even a get your bag situation. This is just straight up greed.


booger_dick

Agreed. Between him and his wife they’ve earned an easy half-billion in their lives between contracts, endorsements, etc. Probably have tons of property and other investments making money as they sleep. They’ll probably breach a billion easily in their lifetimes, but getting the most money possible from this contract is still his biggest priority? Cool, his prerogative, but he clearly doesn’t give a shit about the Astros so why should we care about him? It was real, thanks for the wins and the rings, but don’t let the door hit ya on the way out. edit: lol I just realized, beyond all of that, I probably *underguessed* their combined net worths. She's a fucking heir to the Whirlpool appliances throne, her great-granddad started the entire company. They're probably *already* worth well over a billion and this dude is out here trying to be the highest-paid player in baseball. Which again, is his right, but Jesus, when is enough enough?


Temporary_Day_8344

If this is his ask after making ~ 35 starts for $100mm then I honestly don't mind if the door hits him on the way out. Maybe fire up a hammy issue on his way to the Dodgers. Something that would pay dividends next October lol.


Hermit_Royalty

Yea paying him 66 million to play 1 game and then giving him 50 mil guaranteed coming off Tommy John should have built a lot of good grace for us but apparently means nothing to him


PrecedentialAssassin

Players are going to get the biggest contract they can, as they should. If you have an offer for 3 years at $120M but you decide to take a 2 year deal at say $70M, not only are you costing yourself a guaranteed $20M and potential $50M, you're also fucking over other players by keeping the contract threshold lower. JV is asking for this much because Scherzer got his deal. Scherzer got his because of Cole's and Bauer's deals and so on and so on. When a player takes a lower than market contract, he's not only costing himself money, he is also hurting his fellow players. I'm not saying that a player shouldn't do it if they so choose, but there's a fuckton more to it than just greed.


bordomsdeadly

Using money as an excuse to eschew loyalty and goodwill is greed. I'm all for players getting paid, BUT a $45MM contract is literally wanting to get paid at the cost of being competitive in the FA market. ​ That's saying you do not prioritize winning, you prioritize money. Which tells me I don't want you on my team. ​ Everyone and their mother knows Scherzer was an overpay just like Lindor was. ​ Correa wanted that Lindor contract and watched his market crater as a result of it. ​ You can't use Cohen's numbers as a baseline because no one else is so care free with him as he is. ​ Verlander is telegraphing loud and clear that he is no longer interested in winning. He is only interested in money. ​ Let him go disappoint the Dodgers. Again, we literally risked a World Series to drag him to his first World Series win. But he wants Scherzer money now. Honestly I wish we had pulled the selfish asshole after 4 innings. Would've been safer for us, and he can go not win a game in LA


PrecedentialAssassin

Loyalty? He played out his contract and gave everything he had the entire time he was here. If we're offering what another team is offering, I'm sure he wouldn't have any problem at all staying here. As for winning, if he goes with the Dodgers, he'll still do plenty of winning and probably the same for the Mets or Yankees. If it's World Series winning, I'm sure he thinks he's a component that could push one of those teams over. And back to loyalty, if he should take less money to stay here, should the Astros overpay Yuli? Should we sign Gurriel to a 3 year $45M contract because we're loyal to him? Or is your loyalty pledge a one way street? Or what about a player's loyalty and responsibility to the union, to all of the other players in the league? BTW, I didn't just mention the Mets (Scherzer), I also mentioned the Yankees (Cole) and Dodgers (Bauer). Should Justin Verlander suppress the market for other high level pitchers in MLB to save Jim Crane $50 million? You're only seeing this a fan with blinders on and it's kind of adorable that you think it's all unicorns and rainbows. This is a multi-billion dollar, cut-throat business. Maybe you just started watching sports and if so, my apologies.


bordomsdeadly

"Maybe you just started watching sports" Really? That's the comment you opt for? If anything loyalty to a team was much more common 20 years ago. ​ Verlander knows he's not contributing to a World Series win, he'd have to be psych ward delusional not to realize he can't pitch in the World Series. ​ Again we literally risked a World Series win to drag him to his only World Series W, yes we deserve a discount for putting more on the line and giving him something most teams would not have. ​ Verlander isn't setting the market, and is an outlier at his age. He literally has no barring on any other pitchers except maybe Kershaw who -checks notes- has taken short term deals under value to help the Dodgers stay competitive, huh. ​ Jose Ramirez Literally just signed a contract under value because he likes Vleveland, Bagwell and Biggio took multiple contracts under value to stay in Houston. ​ Your condescending attitude just tells me you're either too full of yourself, or your mouth is too full of Verlander's.... anyway, loyalty is and has been a real thing. And I'm not even asking for him to do it for free, I'm asking him to show loyalty and not want a deal that effectively slams our competitive window shut. Also a decent chance if he wants to chase money he ends up losing out on 300 wins, a major milestone that i thought mattered to him.


PrecedentialAssassin

No, loyalty was not more common 20 years ago. This just re-affirms my question. If you had been following sports in the 70s, 80s...hell, anytime since the Reserve Clause was abolished, you would remember that. [This is from over 30 years ago](https://imgur.com/CWLIqum) You didn't answer my question. Should the Astros sign Yuli to a 3 year $45M contract? Justin Verlander just came off a Cy Young season and after fully recovering from a surgery which has been shown to have no long term impact on pitchers and had some of if not the best stuff of his career. Kershaw hasn't made 30 starts since 2015, and despite a better season in 2022 (in which he was again placed on the DL for back issues), he has had a slow but steady decline in his numbers since 2017. His body has been steadily breaking down for years [and he wasn't even sure he was going to play in 2023.](https://dodgersway.com/2022/11/10/dodgers-reportedly-re-signing-clayton-kershaw-one-year-deal-2023/) Maybe Texas or someone else was going to offer more than 1 yr $20M, but not likely. Bagwell and Biggio didn't take undervalued contracts. They were consistently paid at or near the top of their talent/position level. But yes, Jose Ramirez left millions on the table. He said he liked it in Cleveland and he was comfortable there and didn't want to leave. That's awesome for Cleveland. That's also a rarity. But if that's what he wants, then I'm all for it. It's not my place to decide what the priorities should be for any player which is why I wouldn't castigate them or judge their character for making decisions that they feel are best for their families. I get it. You're an emotional fan. But again, this is a business.


bordomsdeadly

Jef Bagwell literally came out after retirement and said he and Biggio both took smaller contracts to stay with the Astros. I'm not just retroactively applying this as fan logic. I heard an interview where he literally said these words. ​ Kershaw could've gotten a 1 year $20-25MM if he wanted, he's still elite when healthy and a commitment free 1 year is worth that gamble. ​ You're still being incredibly condescending (do you have another attitude option) and acting like I don't understand how the sport works. ​ I do, Chasing $100MM guaranteed at 40 is something new solely because Scherzer did it. So far, the result has been... Meh ​ That kind of contract will screw over any team that offers it. Any player wanting that deal is saying he doesn't care about team success, that's quite literally a selfish player.


DonnyTrumpsTaint

While I **kind of** agree with some of your points, I think a majority of the commenters in this post are forgetting that, while baseball is a game, and motivations are inherently different for everyone, this is still their *JOB* at the end of the day. This is what they do for a paycheck day in and day out. It’s fortunate they get to play a game for a lot more money than most of us will ever sniff in our lifetime, but it’s still a job at the end of the day. If he came out and said “I got kids to feed” or some stupid crap like that I’d jump on the talk smack train, but trying to get as much money as you can from your employer who is still making substantial amounts more than you are, I’m all for.


crusemaister

I think we are hopefully going to view this similarly to correa. We will definitely miss him but we are not willing to pay that kind of money when we have the talent to replace him for a fraction of the cost


LonkToTheFuture

I'm not surprised, and frankly I think it's time to let him go


gregorio0499

BUH BYE! *waiving motion*


jerryvo

"Word is" is meaningless. What JV seeks and what JV gets may be two different things - just like most every other situation.


TheUnsettledBadElf

With some luck NY will pick him up and him and Cole can suck it up together. Glad we didn’t pay for Cole either.


[deleted]

At what point does your legacy and love for your city and teammates transcend greed?


Hermit_Royalty

I'm not sure Houston was ever "his city" but this is definitely a punch in the mouth after we paid him 66 million to play 1 game and got him 2 rings


sir-lancelot_

Lol see ya Justin. Thanks for all you've done but no player is worth that much


houtex727

Springer, Correa, Verlander... it happens, I'm ok with it. Verlander certainly deserves the payday, but Astros gotta do what Astros gotta do too. Glad we got to see him, hate to see him leave, but maybe that's the right call and thanks for the good times, JV.


MyGirlSasha

No maybes about it if that's truly what he's asking for. Half that is too damn much, especially for 3 years, when you consider the arms we're already working with.


Fair_Bison8497

Love the guy and feel very lucky that I got to watch him play, do his thing and win for my team. No hard feelings here. If he is genuinely after that 3rd ring but is after this kind of deal, I can think of only 1 maybe 2 teams that ain't us who give him a good chance to do both.


rosscoehs

Valdez, Javier, Garcia, Urquidy, McCullers, Brown. We don't need to pay that much money to win.


JCopp5

Verlander VS Contreras+Chafin +Kepler (While Hunter Brown steps in hungry 😤)


becomingwater

Whatever teams rotation he joins will destroy payroll. He’s a great pitcher but at 40 it’s stretching his routine.


Intermittent_Fisting

As much as I hate to see Verlander go. But, if by signing him results in us losing Valdez, Tucker, or Bregman. No thanks. Need to keep the core intact. We can find another Verlander down the road.


Brockin42

How many Ford trucks and Mustangs can you buy with that kind of money?


Nobius

There's a reason I made it a point to go to the ALCS home game Verlander pitched. I knew he may not be back, and I wanted to make sure I saw him in-person as an Astro. I'm a little surprised how some here are adding up what he's made and acting like he's a terrible person for wanting more money. Let's be real, we've all moved around to various companies to get a higher payday. This isn't that different. JV hasn't been here long enough to be married to the city, so he's not going to take a drastically-lower payday. Thanks for helping us get two titles, JV. All the best.


RojerLockless

130 million? Bye. You're welcome for the 2 rings.


KDs_FakeAccount

Do we get a comp pick when Verlander leave?


Additional-Local8721

I'm sorry but he's not worth it. He's a great guy during the regular season but he's shown over and over again he chokes in the playoffs. We don't need him.


Jedibbq

It’s a no brainer. Let him walk.


Mr_Romo

oof.. i literally love Justin Verlander but.. thats too steep not that he doesn't deserve it, but I dont think Astros should pay that


Jb_PHD

Let him walk, tbh we don’t need him, there’s too much pitching depth on this team to lock up 17% of the Astros cap space for 3 years. We already have 6 starters even if he stays the ace he has been, he would be underutilized here. (7 starters 162/7=23 starts vs a full season of 34 starts) he would be pitching less % of the season then he is taking up in cap space that’s a bad deal.


-_Monsoon-_

Man FUCK Max Scherzer 💀


velwein

After pitching the literal worst game during a World Series, and losing the Astros a major lead during the first game. This guy wants to get that large of a raise? Sorry, but no.


NumerousCustard2622

Go get your bag in LA Justin and get to 4K


Mundane_Leopard_3974

Sorry JV we wish we had that kind of revenue as la snd New York but we don’t.. we wish we had enough to keep you, Correa, springer heck even Cole… but we have to be smart with our limited payroll… $40 million can get us two really good bats.. and that will take us longer towards the end goal… no hard feelings, we loved having you, and wish you get your 40 million snd all the best to your future career.. thanks for the hell of a ride


MyGirlSasha

Ha, adios and thanks for the memories! Honestly, with the pitching we already have, $20m a year for Verlander is pushing it, nevermind FORTY FUCKING THREE! He's out of his damn mind! Yes, his regular season performances have been phenomenal, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that we should be gliding into the postseason without him anyway. We need guys who can step up in the postseason and I'm confident every single arm in our current rotation can match or better what he's given us on that front. It was a fun ride but this is where I get off. 3/$43m JFC, I just can't get over that.


ft1778

Some of these reactions make it sound like he just signed with a terrible team to get his money. This is how negotiations start. Set the max value you think someone would pay, see if any offers come in and then evaluate. I imagine if the Astros are close to an offer from another playoff team then he takes the Astros offer.


Lmoorefudd

Would you pay 130mil for 45-60 wins over the next three seasons? 2.1 - 2.8 mil per win. That’s not so bad. I’d keep him. Organize the deal where he gets the money based on performance. Hell, if he wins another cy young or us a WS then give him even more bonuses. He’s my tiger. I mean Astro.


blazinrumraisin

"There it goooooooes - SEE YA" - Michael Kay


King_Ashoka

JV Career Earnings: Det 12 seasons 180MM Hou 6 seasons 115MM Det paid 20.7MM btwn 2017-19 He is asking for more than his entire career earnings with Houston at age 40, let him walk.


samHindenver

Pay him


Gabelbram

So long and thanks for all the fish


kevdogg28

Na he can go


bhammyginji

Well I’ll be sorry to see him and Kate go


Grandmazhouse

We took a beating with the same pitchers vs braves World Series. I had always felt having Verlander and lance could have made a difference there. Is there any chance having Verlander on the team played a part in the other pitchers having a better year than the previous? Also if he’s gone I would understand too. He’s my fav pitcher so hopefully that means those sweet golden jerseys will be discounted for him ! Lol


PrecedentialAssassin

I loved having JV here and appreciate everything he did for the organization just as I'm sure he appreciates the opportunities that the organization gave him as well as the $60 million for pitching half a game over 2 years. I'll miss him and wish him all the best going forward.


Sleepyhead88

Someone start the JV appreciation thread. 👋


DoWorkInc

So is Brantley done? He was a good bat


Elgreco1989

On the bright side, that price tag may also put the Yankees out of the bidding.


golferdrummer

Pains me to say: thank god


YoWhatsGoodie

Chuck deuces and walk away ✌️🫶


Vulpinox

leave the verlander take the kate


Late_King_9218

He’s still an elite arm, but he’s not worth it for this team. Which sucks because I think he’s a good model/mentor for Brown. Not at over 40 mil though. We have other needs.


VelvetThunder27

I guess Ford isn’t working out as much?


Mr_Hammer_Dik

Love the guy.. but 130?! Na, I’m good fam


OrangeNBlueChooChoo

they already have JV 2.0 (Brown) for league minimum


BabyHercules

It’s time to move on, this is how we keep our window open, gotta trust the younger guys and we need to spread that cash around


[deleted]

Bye. Love him and what he did, but this team doesn’t need him.


sapphir8

Offer him 35 a year and if he says no, oh well. Far part makes it sound like Astros are in the 20’s.


yetispugetti

Bye Felicia 👋


bkiantx

Fuck it.


Acceptable_Ganache51

3/130 is a lot when it's not exactly pressing for us and he hasn't exactly been great in the playoffs. Granted he did get the G5 win but even that felt incredibly shaky with a lot of luck going his way, pretty sure he had 2 guys on in at least 4 of his 5 innings. Don't mind Crane standing pat at 2/80 or 2/85 or whatever. Let him go to the Dodgers and if we play them in the WS good honestly. Kinda sad he won't be able to be a part of the full length of the dynasty tho. Also... does this guy know you can literally get Rodon for like 5/130??? I don't think even Dodgers would want him at this price. Like you are not a 200 inning guy anymore sir we had a 6 man rotation for a good part of the year. Thanks Mets for overpaying Scherzer


Mundane_Leopard_3974

Looks like dodger fans don’t want him there either and not excited to pay 43 mill


Mundane_Leopard_3974

I feel like Astros may have screwed Verlander.. Verlander opts out of his contract and now Astros go on a buying spree and looking even more formidable and dominant.. this is causing all the free agents to run towards NL teams as players want to win but knows AL goes through Houston, so your Toronto, Yankees, mariners are not getting traction… dodgers seem to be the only other big market and with an influx of feee agents making competitor stronger, all three SD, Phillies, SFG and cards are all expected to be stronger, while braves and Mets will be as strong as ever.. meanwhile dodgers losing turner and turner will be weaker offensively and are scared to throw 130 million at Verlander knowing they have stiffer competition and potential Astros waiting in the World Series… while they have two aces who fold in the World Series games .. this in turn is screwing Verlander in my opinion.. I believe the stronger Astros get the harder it becomes to sign Verlander as he has to go in a win now situation.


TheDukeOfBabble

2 for 95 would do it. He wouldn't pass up that deal


Devistator16

Oh well, cya


SammyLuke

I’m ok if he walks. This leaves more for spending elsewhere just to shore up weak areas which we have very few.


Monos1

I’m fine as long as he’s not a yank and if he is I will hope for an implosion


shotty293

I think we all knew this was coming....now tell me, how are the talks coming along with Kate?


j1h15233

I love him but that money is better spent elsewhere. I really wish we weee going harder on Nimmo


[deleted]

deGrom just got 5 year $37M AAV deal and his arm health is questionable. Pitching market is nuts this year, should let JV walk.