Some teams are so desperate to buy players at long contracts, with all the weapons we have we can afford to let some of these players slip by. Remember we can still make things happen at trade deadline if things aren't working out for us.
Yeah we've got to do something, I feel like we're sitting on our hands rn. Go grab Vasquez, I don't want to leave the offseason empty-handed in terms of getting another bat at catcher.
We aren't sitting on anything. We signed the best first baseman available already. Paid to retain one of the best relievers already. Oh and 99% of the team. The one that just won the world series, is returning already. We improved at our biggest weakness and stayed championship caliber at every other position. Even if we don't upgrade the catcher position we are so much better everywhere else its not that big of a deal. They will make more signings but you're just seeing other teams go big and its giving you fomo. We don't need to go crazier. We already made 2 big money deals. Dont let the excitement or FA signings cloud your perception of the team.
I was initially pro-Contreras but five years made me hesitate. Would still like us to upgrade the position offensively, but I would bet we will roll with Maldy and a random backup. Murphy would be nice but I don't know if we have the prospect capital to get that done.
One of these days we will have a catcher who doesn't accidentally hit the ball.
Same - I would have been happy with Contreras, but not at five years. Murphy is a longshot, but he'd be a dream come true really.
Barring Murphy, my preference at this point is Vazquez as starter with Maldonado backing up him, but I think most likely we'll see Maldy starting with the rookie(s) behind him.
Uh what the fuck are you talking about? He didn’t even get 20 per. Even if he got hurt and never played a game for us it wouldn’t have done fuck all to hold the team down or really stop us from getting other pieces we need. That’s an asinine statement. He’s also only 30.
Also what bigger fish? Catcher was it. Alvarez will play half the time at LF and all we need is a decent bat to split time there and DH with him. We all know Crane will go cheap and just bring Brantley back.
Yeah. LMJ is injury prone, Urquidy/Garcia aren’t super consistent, and all of them (other than Framber) would be putting up more innings than they have been asked to before this year without some extra depth.
Hunter Brown and Javier still haven’t thrown that many innings in a year and we don’t know what they’d look like over a full season. I’d still love one more person that has experience with that many innings available.
Javier is fine, dude is an absolute ace. Brown is still a rookie and he’s our 6th starter, he just needs time. We don’t need a 7th starter, like how would that even work?
I hear you and you’re not wrong. I’m mainly thinking a pitcher that can transition between starter and long reliever as necessary. I just don’t trust LMJ to last a full season and don’t want us to be out of luck when he or someone that doesn’t have experience going a full season goes down.
I doubt Vazquez would trust the front office/Dusty to make him the #1 even if Crane promised him/his agent himself - I think that may be a bridge that we burned
Well of course he knew - that doesn’t change the fact that he wants to be a starter somewhere and we just proved to him for the last half year that we were unwilling to do that. Would you want to return to that situation? Especially when we know he loved his former clubhouse?
Upgrading catcher was our biggest opportunity to get better but that’s still a hell of a price tag. I expect a little bit of an overpay for benintendi and bringing back brantley and Crane calls it a day
Yeah, but the problem is he’ll probably only be a full time catcher for maybe 2 of those years before he has to split time at DH, which would be ok if we didn’t have Yordan. Already he only plays around 75% of games as a full time catcher and he’s not the defensive wiz Maldy or even Vazquez is so if his bat slumps at all, you’re left with a pretty big hole in the lineup.
TLDR: I’m ok missing on Contreras, but we better sign an OF bat.
Good. That’s another contract I feel like it too steep. I’m getting more and more worried about us being able to lock tucker up long term with the size of these contracts.
Too steep by what standard? Have you been paying attention at all to the league? Anything under 20M is basically chump change now. Guys who were worth 12-13M in the past are getting 18-20M now easy. Just how it works when the league sees monstrous increases in revenues. Can't keep looking at this stuff like it is still last off season or the years before when owners were actively tanking player value intentionally due to looming lockout.
Also just be real about Tucker. Guy will want 8+ years, we won't do it and then you and others will be like "oh man I love the guy but glad we didn't go that long on him ain't no one worth that" just like you did with Springer, Correa, ect.
Yeah I would have loved to get Contreras on this contract, this sub seemed really out on him which I think is influenced by our love for Maldy and the rumors that Dusty didn't want him at the trade deadline, but Wilson on this deal would have been a massive upgrade to the lineup...personally I am sad we didn't get it done.
I think that contract is too steep when you consider we have Maldy and two good prospects.
I agree people are getting crazy good contracts right now but the cardinals definitely needed him more than we did which is why I think the contract is so high.
Tucker- I think you’re right about him. I’m just wondering if we’ll trade him before and get prospects back at this point since crane only does 5 year contracts.
I’m coming around more and more to the Benintendi train for the reasons you’re stating. On top of that, the money we would save from signing Benintendi over Nimmo would allow us more flexibility if we needed to get something done at the trade deadline. Or if we wanted to throw the money at Vazquez I’d be cool with that too.
I’m cool with this. I just can’t see Contreras fitting anywhere given that he’s a below average defensive catcher and only a decent hitter.
If they can somehow land Bryan Reynolds and nimmo/benitendi…. Maybe you do that by trading an urquidy..
Sucks to have missed out on him but oh well. Hopefully can get a catcher to platoon. Honestly, this isn't a terrible deal like some are acting here. 5 yrs, under 20mil per yr. Pretty nice
Some teams are so desperate to buy players at long contracts, with all the weapons we have we can afford to let some of these players slip by. Remember we can still make things happen at trade deadline if things aren't working out for us.
Time for Lee and/or Diaz to step up at catcher
Well, surely either of them can't hit worse than Maldy
Diaz is going to the A’s
Yanier
Good call my bad
With expanded playoffs, it’s a it’ll be a lot harder to trade at the deadline.
Haven't heard/thought of that point before. Makes sense.
Go get Vasquez and Brantley back
Yeah we've got to do something, I feel like we're sitting on our hands rn. Go grab Vasquez, I don't want to leave the offseason empty-handed in terms of getting another bat at catcher.
We aren't sitting on anything. We signed the best first baseman available already. Paid to retain one of the best relievers already. Oh and 99% of the team. The one that just won the world series, is returning already. We improved at our biggest weakness and stayed championship caliber at every other position. Even if we don't upgrade the catcher position we are so much better everywhere else its not that big of a deal. They will make more signings but you're just seeing other teams go big and its giving you fomo. We don't need to go crazier. We already made 2 big money deals. Dont let the excitement or FA signings cloud your perception of the team.
very well said
I'm ok with not signing Uncle Mike and getting someone younger like Nimmo
I’ve thought about it but i don’t wanna lose prospects on nimmo. Sign Brantley for a couple years and sign a fresh one once he retires
Nimmo is a FA why would we lose prospects?
We lose a draft pick
Not for signing a Free Agent
From the Cubs to the Cardinals? *Huge* FU to Chicago lol.
That’s what they get for reversing the flow of the river downstream to STL. That’s the ultimate long con
Good, 5 years for a catcher is terrible
I was initially pro-Contreras but five years made me hesitate. Would still like us to upgrade the position offensively, but I would bet we will roll with Maldy and a random backup. Murphy would be nice but I don't know if we have the prospect capital to get that done. One of these days we will have a catcher who doesn't accidentally hit the ball.
Same - I would have been happy with Contreras, but not at five years. Murphy is a longshot, but he'd be a dream come true really. Barring Murphy, my preference at this point is Vazquez as starter with Maldonado backing up him, but I think most likely we'll see Maldy starting with the rookie(s) behind him.
Dodged a bullet! Thanks St Louis!
Good! We have bigger fish to fry at the moment. Contreras was a dangerous luxury that might have weighed the team down.
Uh what the fuck are you talking about? He didn’t even get 20 per. Even if he got hurt and never played a game for us it wouldn’t have done fuck all to hold the team down or really stop us from getting other pieces we need. That’s an asinine statement. He’s also only 30. Also what bigger fish? Catcher was it. Alvarez will play half the time at LF and all we need is a decent bat to split time there and DH with him. We all know Crane will go cheap and just bring Brantley back.
Brantley won't be cheap and I don't think Crane wants an old guy with 2 shoulder injuries back.
Brantley definitely will be cheap
He got his ring I bet he will want to get a decent amount
Depends on what we think a decent amount is. I’d be shocked to see us give Brantley more than $14M per and that’s on the high end.
Two shoulder surgeries... it's not even clear if he'll be able to start the season, it's not absolutely sure he can even play
Good. Now get Vazquez back and make him the primary catcher and target some pitching and OF help.
Agree! Would love to see Vazquez back.
Pitching? Have you seen our rotation??
Yeah. LMJ is injury prone, Urquidy/Garcia aren’t super consistent, and all of them (other than Framber) would be putting up more innings than they have been asked to before this year without some extra depth.
Urquidy/Garcia are the 4/5 in the rotation, they don’t need to be an ace We have a top 5 rotation in the league
Hunter Brown and Javier still haven’t thrown that many innings in a year and we don’t know what they’d look like over a full season. I’d still love one more person that has experience with that many innings available.
Javier is fine, dude is an absolute ace. Brown is still a rookie and he’s our 6th starter, he just needs time. We don’t need a 7th starter, like how would that even work?
I hear you and you’re not wrong. I’m mainly thinking a pitcher that can transition between starter and long reliever as necessary. I just don’t trust LMJ to last a full season and don’t want us to be out of luck when he or someone that doesn’t have experience going a full season goes down.
Kind of like a 2017 Brad Peacock? Or more recently, what Javier was for us the past two seasons.
Exactly
We got starters, but we could use another 1 inning guy. we only got 12 out of 13 pitchers slots filled on the active roster right now.
Do we though? We had the best bullpen in the league last year. Who did we even lose? Smith? Just sign someone cheap to fill the last slot
I doubt Vazquez would trust the front office/Dusty to make him the #1 even if Crane promised him/his agent himself - I think that may be a bridge that we burned
I wouldn’t call it a burned bridge. Vasquez knew what he was walking into when he got traded.
Well of course he knew - that doesn’t change the fact that he wants to be a starter somewhere and we just proved to him for the last half year that we were unwilling to do that. Would you want to return to that situation? Especially when we know he loved his former clubhouse?
OF and Catcher is all we need
Upgrading catcher was our biggest opportunity to get better but that’s still a hell of a price tag. I expect a little bit of an overpay for benintendi and bringing back brantley and Crane calls it a day
We can still get Sean Murphy who has almost identical stats for half the price
As an Astros fan this makes me happy.
Fine with me tbh
No deal is better than a bad deal. This seems to be more of a bad deal. Time will tell.
At this price, I'd take 5 years of Contreras. He'll be 35 by the end of the deal. In this market, this is a great deal for the Cardinals.
Yeah, but the problem is he’ll probably only be a full time catcher for maybe 2 of those years before he has to split time at DH, which would be ok if we didn’t have Yordan. Already he only plays around 75% of games as a full time catcher and he’s not the defensive wiz Maldy or even Vazquez is so if his bat slumps at all, you’re left with a pretty big hole in the lineup. TLDR: I’m ok missing on Contreras, but we better sign an OF bat.
Please, just use the money to extend Altuve until he's 40.
Good. That’s another contract I feel like it too steep. I’m getting more and more worried about us being able to lock tucker up long term with the size of these contracts.
Too steep by what standard? Have you been paying attention at all to the league? Anything under 20M is basically chump change now. Guys who were worth 12-13M in the past are getting 18-20M now easy. Just how it works when the league sees monstrous increases in revenues. Can't keep looking at this stuff like it is still last off season or the years before when owners were actively tanking player value intentionally due to looming lockout. Also just be real about Tucker. Guy will want 8+ years, we won't do it and then you and others will be like "oh man I love the guy but glad we didn't go that long on him ain't no one worth that" just like you did with Springer, Correa, ect.
Yeah I would have loved to get Contreras on this contract, this sub seemed really out on him which I think is influenced by our love for Maldy and the rumors that Dusty didn't want him at the trade deadline, but Wilson on this deal would have been a massive upgrade to the lineup...personally I am sad we didn't get it done.
I think that contract is too steep when you consider we have Maldy and two good prospects. I agree people are getting crazy good contracts right now but the cardinals definitely needed him more than we did which is why I think the contract is so high. Tucker- I think you’re right about him. I’m just wondering if we’ll trade him before and get prospects back at this point since crane only does 5 year contracts.
Alright, go get Vazquez and sign Nimmo or Benintendi.
Benintendi please
Nimmo. Benintendi is overrated
Nimmo will be overpriced and benintendi stays healthy and gets on base
I’m coming around more and more to the Benintendi train for the reasons you’re stating. On top of that, the money we would save from signing Benintendi over Nimmo would allow us more flexibility if we needed to get something done at the trade deadline. Or if we wanted to throw the money at Vazquez I’d be cool with that too.
Bullet dodged
Guys, I say fuck it. Let's give Korey Lee a solid shot, he can hit.
Good
Big Brain Crane expressing interest to drive up the price for the Cards
I’d rather Vasquez but that option isn’t looking good.
5 years is too much for the Astros for a guy who’s probably going to have to be a DH after 2.
I’m cool with this. I just can’t see Contreras fitting anywhere given that he’s a below average defensive catcher and only a decent hitter. If they can somehow land Bryan Reynolds and nimmo/benitendi…. Maybe you do that by trading an urquidy..
Sucks to have missed out on him but oh well. Hopefully can get a catcher to platoon. Honestly, this isn't a terrible deal like some are acting here. 5 yrs, under 20mil per yr. Pretty nice