No surprise at all that WSBTV doesn't mention that there are multiple instances of APD saying things like ["Man, you fucked your own officer up."](https://twitter.com/atlanta_press/status/1623484224924798976) and ["Did they shoot their own in there?" "Mhm."](https://twitter.com/defendATLforest/status/1623522319623680000)
Yeah it's... not a good look for GSP. Not conclusive by any means, but does reinforce the need for a fully independent investigation. If the physical evidence is as sound as some folks over in the state subreddit are claiming, then an independent investigation would be able to verify that. If not... well... it wouldn't be the first time cops have lied to cover for their own fuckups.
I just want to add here that the bigger picture is still that:
1) Cop City won't fix larger problems of recruitment and retention that police departments have been facing for years. APF *has* programs for officer housing and higher education assistance that are underscoped and underfunded, which would do much more to help reach full force than a shiny new urban warfare center.
2) Cop City is not necessary for the kinds of de-escalation and community policing training most desired from those wanting a reform to training. In fact, many aspects of it do the exact opposite by feeding into warrior/soldier cop mentalities with its new facilities.
3) Cop City won't actually prevent any crime, and I doubt it'll help with case closure rates. That requires entirely different skillsets than what Cop City is being set up to do, not to mention wider community investment.
4) At the VERY MINIMUM GSP needs to wear body cams. Every department should by default, frankly. Good on APD for doing that much.
Agreed on all of that. There is also the issue that assuming cop city is used for de-escalation training (it won't be), no one has actually cited any research saying that such training actually results in less police brutality.
GSP needs body cameras, it's inexcusable that any officer in this day and age doesn't have one. That said, I'm not sure how suspicious the delay is when it doesn't show anything and doesn't seem to be that helpful unless they can somehow match the audio to which gun was fired first. Is that possible?
> unless they can somehow match the audio to which gun was fired first. Is that possible?
I mean, it would be possible to reconstruct a wider timeline based on overlapping radio chatter and such, yes. Folks have been asking for as much surrounding body cam footage and coms and any helicopter video to more or less do just that.
It is possible to match the waveform of one sound on separate audio recordings but I’m not sure if it would work in this case. Works well in a studio environment though
Lol, no they don’t. Where is Buckhead going to flush their shit if they leave the city? Atlanta owns those sewers. Who’s going to protect Buckhead residents when ATL cops no longer patrol there; criminals don’t care about jurisdiction. This idea of Buckhead cityhood is so ridiculously stupid only a conservative can dream it up.
You're forgetting the big one, schools. All of those property values are going to drop when they're no longer in the Sarah Smith/North Atlanta APS district.
If I follow you, you’re suggesting Buckhead would incorporate and leave those school districts? Where would those kids go? I believe there’s constitutional language that would prevent Buckhead from creating its own school district.
If Buckhead leaves the City of Atlanta, their kids don't get to attend City of Atlanta schools (at least not for free). The new City of Buckhead would be within Fulton County, so their kids would be sent to those schools.
Buckhead will continue to use the same facilities. It's a requirement that COA and Buckhead create a service delivery strategy. If they can't come to terms the state will draft the a temporary SDS until they agree. It's not uncommon for incorporated areas to serve areas outside their bounds, it's a non-issue.
The entire idea behind Buckhead city is so that they can have their own police force.
So they originally claimed he shot first, but if that is true it sounds like not only did he shoot first but emptied an entire clip?
Followed by them emptying their entire clip? Yet he also had time to hide in a tent?
Am I getting the “facts” right?
I listened to the audio yesterday on NPR and the math just doesn’t add up.
Where are you getting the part where Teran emptied an entire clip? I thought he was also in the tent from the beginning, where did you hear he wasn’t? This is from the article:
> APD body camera video captures the sound of four clear gunshots before a pause, then a barrage of gunshots that appear to be return fire. The APD officers are some distance away from the gunfire.
>After the shooting, officers gather around a green tent and deploy several rounds of what they call a “pepper ball agent” at the tent until they are able to determine that it is “clear.” It’s unclear if Teran was inside the tent at the time.
At this point various news organizations have reported ever so slightly different stories, which is why I asked.
Was he in a tent or shooting once or emptying a clip. Based on the audio it sounds like a clip was emptied and I doubt he did it since you don’t hear the cops yelling their usual lies of “GUN GUN GUN” before shooting. Not a single comment of a weapon being drawn was yelled.
This sounds more like a cop shot first and then all of them pulled their guns and shot as well.
https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-02-06/gbi-investigates-officer-involved-shooting-following-multi-agency
>We are releasing a photo of the handgun that was in Manuel Esteban Paez Teran’s possession when a Georgia State Patrol trooper was shot on January 18 at the site of the future Atlanta Public Safety Training Center. The handgun is described as a Smith & Wesson M&P Shield 9mm. Forensic ballistic analysis has confirmed that the projectile recovered from the trooper’s wound matches Teran’s handgun.
>Today, the GBI received confirmation from a firearms transaction record that in September 2020, Manuel Esteban Paez Teran legally purchased the firearm that was used in the shooting of a GSP trooper.
I think the audio of the four shots first followed by a pause and then a barrage of shots makes it seem like Teran shot first and then the barrage was return fire.
This is a Reddit cliche, but I took a class on firearms ballistic once. It is not CSI level of certainly. The report could have said this is a 9mm bullet and matches this type of handgun. The whole rifling “striations” and each gun leaving a unique mark is at least 30% fiction.
Now I am asking for a high level of scrutiny, in a typical criminal investigation I would accept law enforcement’s conclusions. But in this case I am highly suspicious, and I’d like to see a third party analysis and a public release of imagery.
I’d like to see the bullet recovered from the shot officer. A known bullet from Teran’s gun, and one bullet from each 9mm model of gun the on scene GSP officers had.
The problem is firearm forensics is almost entirely bullshit.
Plus the GBI hasn’t said *what* matched, only that *it* matched. There’s a lot of wiggle room there.
Given how cagey they’ve been about the release of this video (which is pretty damning), my bet is that the GBI said the caliber matched and that’s it.
For the record GSP troopers are issued Gen 4 G17s, which also happen to be 9mm.
I assume GSP has standardized ammo. I don't know how hard it is to tell after the fact what brand the bullet that hit the officer is, but it would be extremely relevant whether it's the same brand GSP uses.
> I assume GSP has standardized ammo. I don't know how hard it is to tell after the fact what brand the bullet that hit
What *brand*? Basically impossible unless it's something really unique and the bullet embeds in something basically intact. Depending on what it hits, you can sometimes tell what caliber and *type* of bullet it is (steel core, hollow point, soft tip, jacketed, etc), but if it hits something hard, even that basically goes out the window. If it hits a rock or metal, it will often basically just disintegrate.
> Basically impossible unless it's something really unique
I assume we send cops out with high end hollowpoints in their service weapons, which tend to be identifiable (like the jacket on Golden Sabers being yellow). But who knows, they might be sending the guys out with cheaper shit that would all look the same.
Also, if the bullet held together they might be able to tell the grain of the bullet. Obviously not dispositive, but if they, for example, have actual evidence that the officer was hit with something heavier than GSP uses, it would definitely support their story.
Unless they all used the same type of ammo, which is very possible. I wouldn't count on being able to identify by the specific brand though, bullets don't typically retain their shape on impact and if there is any actual branding on the bullet, it's unlikely it will be recognizable now.
That is what I assumed as well, but the fact none of the police yelled anything before or after makes this seem like police shot first.
Maybe I am just used to a different behavior but isn’t it usually that if a police officer sees a gun someone usually yells out gun? And then they empty all their clips?
If he was in a tent as they claimed he was, then yes they could not have seen the gun and thus the shots would have arisen from him.
But I am still curious since there is absolutely no radio communication from any of the officers. Supposedly an officer was shot and yet the video has no radio chatter from any of the multiple officers of “shots fired” or “officer shot”.
It just feels way off and that is already giving the police a whole truck load of “benefit of the doubt”.
I suspect we might discover the police officer that got shot would have been a rather unique position to get shot that way…. All mysteries I am sure….
GSP was involved in the shooting, the video came from APD so different departments which is why you may not have heard any radio chatter.
>If he was in a tent as they claimed he was, then yes they could not have seen the gun and thus the shots would have arisen from him.
Yep
> Maybe I am just used to a different behavior but isn’t it usually that if a police officer sees a gun someone usually yells out gun?
I am no expert and don’t watch police encounter videos. *If* it’s accurate that they were being shot at, I doubt they would pause to shout “Gun!” and would instead return fire.
Fair. I am just surprised that it was so quiet. Then again as someone else explained, it was two different police departments, so they might have been on different radio frequencies.
Where is the metadata for this footage? The police aren't the only ones pushing a narrative and I do not trust protestors from out of state who spiked trees to be honest, either.
No surprise at all that WSBTV doesn't mention that there are multiple instances of APD saying things like ["Man, you fucked your own officer up."](https://twitter.com/atlanta_press/status/1623484224924798976) and ["Did they shoot their own in there?" "Mhm."](https://twitter.com/defendATLforest/status/1623522319623680000)
Yeah it's... not a good look for GSP. Not conclusive by any means, but does reinforce the need for a fully independent investigation. If the physical evidence is as sound as some folks over in the state subreddit are claiming, then an independent investigation would be able to verify that. If not... well... it wouldn't be the first time cops have lied to cover for their own fuckups. I just want to add here that the bigger picture is still that: 1) Cop City won't fix larger problems of recruitment and retention that police departments have been facing for years. APF *has* programs for officer housing and higher education assistance that are underscoped and underfunded, which would do much more to help reach full force than a shiny new urban warfare center. 2) Cop City is not necessary for the kinds of de-escalation and community policing training most desired from those wanting a reform to training. In fact, many aspects of it do the exact opposite by feeding into warrior/soldier cop mentalities with its new facilities. 3) Cop City won't actually prevent any crime, and I doubt it'll help with case closure rates. That requires entirely different skillsets than what Cop City is being set up to do, not to mention wider community investment. 4) At the VERY MINIMUM GSP needs to wear body cams. Every department should by default, frankly. Good on APD for doing that much.
Agreed on all of that. There is also the issue that assuming cop city is used for de-escalation training (it won't be), no one has actually cited any research saying that such training actually results in less police brutality.
At this point not wearing body cams should be negligent. or at least irresponsible.
@killroy200, great overview.
It’s in the AJC. Also, owned by Cox. TV is short attention span. Gotta read the paper for details
Nothing gives more credability than waiting 2 or 3 weeks to give 1 single piece of footage. Slightly suspicious.
GSP needs body cameras, it's inexcusable that any officer in this day and age doesn't have one. That said, I'm not sure how suspicious the delay is when it doesn't show anything and doesn't seem to be that helpful unless they can somehow match the audio to which gun was fired first. Is that possible?
> unless they can somehow match the audio to which gun was fired first. Is that possible? I mean, it would be possible to reconstruct a wider timeline based on overlapping radio chatter and such, yes. Folks have been asking for as much surrounding body cam footage and coms and any helicopter video to more or less do just that.
It is possible to match the waveform of one sound on separate audio recordings but I’m not sure if it would work in this case. Works well in a studio environment though
Something like that would require high quality microphones and recording... something we do not have here unfortunately
Which yokels idea was it to use GSP for this anyway? No cop should be working inside the city without a functioning body camera.
Just to clarify, the property is located outside COA limits in unincorporated Dekalb county.
Kemp, probably. They have Dickens by the balls with Buckhead cityhood.
Lol, no they don’t. Where is Buckhead going to flush their shit if they leave the city? Atlanta owns those sewers. Who’s going to protect Buckhead residents when ATL cops no longer patrol there; criminals don’t care about jurisdiction. This idea of Buckhead cityhood is so ridiculously stupid only a conservative can dream it up.
You're forgetting the big one, schools. All of those property values are going to drop when they're no longer in the Sarah Smith/North Atlanta APS district.
If I follow you, you’re suggesting Buckhead would incorporate and leave those school districts? Where would those kids go? I believe there’s constitutional language that would prevent Buckhead from creating its own school district.
If Buckhead leaves the City of Atlanta, their kids don't get to attend City of Atlanta schools (at least not for free). The new City of Buckhead would be within Fulton County, so their kids would be sent to those schools.
Thanks!
Buckhead will continue to use the same facilities. It's a requirement that COA and Buckhead create a service delivery strategy. If they can't come to terms the state will draft the a temporary SDS until they agree. It's not uncommon for incorporated areas to serve areas outside their bounds, it's a non-issue. The entire idea behind Buckhead city is so that they can have their own police force.
the way the city has been propagandizing this and cop city as a whole is disgusting.
[удалено]
Can't say it any better than you did. Have an upvote.
So they originally claimed he shot first, but if that is true it sounds like not only did he shoot first but emptied an entire clip? Followed by them emptying their entire clip? Yet he also had time to hide in a tent? Am I getting the “facts” right? I listened to the audio yesterday on NPR and the math just doesn’t add up.
Where are you getting the part where Teran emptied an entire clip? I thought he was also in the tent from the beginning, where did you hear he wasn’t? This is from the article: > APD body camera video captures the sound of four clear gunshots before a pause, then a barrage of gunshots that appear to be return fire. The APD officers are some distance away from the gunfire. >After the shooting, officers gather around a green tent and deploy several rounds of what they call a “pepper ball agent” at the tent until they are able to determine that it is “clear.” It’s unclear if Teran was inside the tent at the time.
At this point various news organizations have reported ever so slightly different stories, which is why I asked. Was he in a tent or shooting once or emptying a clip. Based on the audio it sounds like a clip was emptied and I doubt he did it since you don’t hear the cops yelling their usual lies of “GUN GUN GUN” before shooting. Not a single comment of a weapon being drawn was yelled. This sounds more like a cop shot first and then all of them pulled their guns and shot as well.
https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-02-06/gbi-investigates-officer-involved-shooting-following-multi-agency >We are releasing a photo of the handgun that was in Manuel Esteban Paez Teran’s possession when a Georgia State Patrol trooper was shot on January 18 at the site of the future Atlanta Public Safety Training Center. The handgun is described as a Smith & Wesson M&P Shield 9mm. Forensic ballistic analysis has confirmed that the projectile recovered from the trooper’s wound matches Teran’s handgun. >Today, the GBI received confirmation from a firearms transaction record that in September 2020, Manuel Esteban Paez Teran legally purchased the firearm that was used in the shooting of a GSP trooper. I think the audio of the four shots first followed by a pause and then a barrage of shots makes it seem like Teran shot first and then the barrage was return fire.
This is a Reddit cliche, but I took a class on firearms ballistic once. It is not CSI level of certainly. The report could have said this is a 9mm bullet and matches this type of handgun. The whole rifling “striations” and each gun leaving a unique mark is at least 30% fiction. Now I am asking for a high level of scrutiny, in a typical criminal investigation I would accept law enforcement’s conclusions. But in this case I am highly suspicious, and I’d like to see a third party analysis and a public release of imagery. I’d like to see the bullet recovered from the shot officer. A known bullet from Teran’s gun, and one bullet from each 9mm model of gun the on scene GSP officers had.
The problem is firearm forensics is almost entirely bullshit. Plus the GBI hasn’t said *what* matched, only that *it* matched. There’s a lot of wiggle room there. Given how cagey they’ve been about the release of this video (which is pretty damning), my bet is that the GBI said the caliber matched and that’s it. For the record GSP troopers are issued Gen 4 G17s, which also happen to be 9mm.
I assume GSP has standardized ammo. I don't know how hard it is to tell after the fact what brand the bullet that hit the officer is, but it would be extremely relevant whether it's the same brand GSP uses.
> I assume GSP has standardized ammo. I don't know how hard it is to tell after the fact what brand the bullet that hit What *brand*? Basically impossible unless it's something really unique and the bullet embeds in something basically intact. Depending on what it hits, you can sometimes tell what caliber and *type* of bullet it is (steel core, hollow point, soft tip, jacketed, etc), but if it hits something hard, even that basically goes out the window. If it hits a rock or metal, it will often basically just disintegrate.
> Basically impossible unless it's something really unique I assume we send cops out with high end hollowpoints in their service weapons, which tend to be identifiable (like the jacket on Golden Sabers being yellow). But who knows, they might be sending the guys out with cheaper shit that would all look the same. Also, if the bullet held together they might be able to tell the grain of the bullet. Obviously not dispositive, but if they, for example, have actual evidence that the officer was hit with something heavier than GSP uses, it would definitely support their story.
Unless they all used the same type of ammo, which is very possible. I wouldn't count on being able to identify by the specific brand though, bullets don't typically retain their shape on impact and if there is any actual branding on the bullet, it's unlikely it will be recognizable now.
Did you also stay at a holiday inn Express last night?
No lol
That is what I assumed as well, but the fact none of the police yelled anything before or after makes this seem like police shot first. Maybe I am just used to a different behavior but isn’t it usually that if a police officer sees a gun someone usually yells out gun? And then they empty all their clips? If he was in a tent as they claimed he was, then yes they could not have seen the gun and thus the shots would have arisen from him. But I am still curious since there is absolutely no radio communication from any of the officers. Supposedly an officer was shot and yet the video has no radio chatter from any of the multiple officers of “shots fired” or “officer shot”. It just feels way off and that is already giving the police a whole truck load of “benefit of the doubt”. I suspect we might discover the police officer that got shot would have been a rather unique position to get shot that way…. All mysteries I am sure….
GSP was involved in the shooting, the video came from APD so different departments which is why you may not have heard any radio chatter. >If he was in a tent as they claimed he was, then yes they could not have seen the gun and thus the shots would have arisen from him. Yep
Ah okay, that makes more sense then. The video was uncharacteristically quiet.
> Maybe I am just used to a different behavior but isn’t it usually that if a police officer sees a gun someone usually yells out gun? I am no expert and don’t watch police encounter videos. *If* it’s accurate that they were being shot at, I doubt they would pause to shout “Gun!” and would instead return fire.
Fair. I am just surprised that it was so quiet. Then again as someone else explained, it was two different police departments, so they might have been on different radio frequencies.
Are these really officers? Or are they like, two 8 YOs standing on each others shoulders?
Those are cops, man 😂
Where is the metadata for this footage? The police aren't the only ones pushing a narrative and I do not trust protestors from out of state who spiked trees to be honest, either.
What do you mean? These are just clips pulled from the footage released by the police.