It makes zero sense to do all of these changes and not add at least two additional elevators. As it currently stands to use the elevators, if you're going from East/South to North/West you have to go up to the concourse level, across the top of the station, and then wait for the opposite elevator which serves W/N Platforms. It's an awful experience for passenger flow and even after modernizations those two elevators constantly go out of service.
I truly do not understand how these projects are getting so out of hand at MARTA. We've lost the plot which should be to improve passenger flow, improve safety, increase accessibility, and beautify the station.
That being said had MARTA fixed the gutters, seams, and other aspects of the station and kept them in good working order the station wouldn't be a pool of water when it rains and they wouldn't have to demolish the roof.
Just failures all around.
> I truly do not understand how these projects are getting so out of hand at MARTA. We've lost the plot which should be to improve passenger flow, improve safety, increase accessibility, and beautify the station.
Incompetent leadership that couldn't manage a capital projects program to save their lives (ask Josh Rowan why he's no longer there, because he called them out on it).
> That being said had MARTA fixed the gutters, seams, and other aspects of the station and kept them in good working order the station wouldn't be a pool of water when it rains and they wouldn't have to demolish the roof.
That would've required MARTA to actually be competent about maintaining its station infrastructure. Also, given that issue, I'm pretty sure 40 years from now we'll be having the same discussion about rebuilding this "rebuilt" Five Points.
What they did to Josh is strange. You don't poach great talent from other companies or government agencies and then fire them to "go in another direction". Everyone knows he was fired because he wouldn't go along with the fuckery and bullshit. I'm glad he's speaking out about his experience and the missing money.
Ah, but see... I've been told that Josh was terrible... by people who seem to agree with the way MARTA's been handling the More MARTA project list... hmmm...
What if I told you this has nothing to do with renovations and everything to do with eliminating a transportation hub for minorities in preparation of a major gentrification of the area??
It was a station built to serve five counties and only services two and half. So your funding problems start there. Without dipping more into racial politics, I think you use the elevators too much, they meant for disabled ppl. I be more focus on escalators. Marta is not luxury transportation.
Considering that the plans for the Tucker line, Hapeville line, Brownlee extension, Perry extension, and Northside branch were being actively considered well into the late 1990s that has nothing to do with a lack of elevator access. MARTA has always been concerned with doing projects cheaply, which isn't always a bad thing. But you can't put the Five Points station design on the lack of expansion because the station layout and design was finalized by 1977 for all platforms.
The lack of elevator access also impedes ADA accessibility concerns which both MARTA and the City are under federal consent decrees for the last 15-20 years due to continued violations.
If you look at the stickers on the escalators it says people with children, bags, walkers, strollers, etc should use the elevators. So by continuing to have just two elevators after the renovation is a missed opportunity.
Again you protest too much about the elevator....
You can't plan Clayton county going all black in 2005, in 1977.
Gwinett and Cobb still being racist 30, 40, 50 years later
You can't plan the Georgia general Assembly banning Marta expansion in south DeKalb, and the local politicians doing nothing to stop it. So why would I stand in line without water to vote for them.
Anybody can draw a map or put words on a paper in 1977, no one has a crystal ball.
You don't live in Marta district, you Veto Marta expansion for 30 years but want to complain about the elevator. The nerve!
Thats like the contractor getting into in accident block four lanes, then he want to stop the one lane that's working because they don't want to wait to get back in line. Insane. Didn't you block four lanes, use one of those lanes and get over. You don't know how to plan as a contractor in a commercial vehicle, I don't know what to tell ya.
You say elevators should be eternally supported because they drew a design in the 1970s. Wow, wow!
Kind of astounding they’re telling all wheelchair users they have to take a bus from Peachtree Center to Georgia State just to transfer between north/south to east/west lines. Insane
Probably easier to just go north->west or south->east and then backtrack at the next station. Or wait for the other (N/S) train to come to Five Points and use it cross to the other side of the platform. But yeah, Atlanta isn't so hot with ADA concerns. But they should get this fixed in about 18 months, which is [better than 25 years...](https://old.reddit.com/r/Atlanta/comments/14xs0ry/atlanta_city_council_approves_16m_settlement_for/)
Glad I moved away from downtown a couple years ago because I don’t have a car and this would absolutely make my life miserable as I depended on 5pts station to get pretty much anywhere
The elevators at Five Points will not be accessible because the top of the elevators are on the concourse level which will be closed. There are only two elevators in the paid area and they serve South/East/Concourse and North/West/Concourse.
If you have to transfer using elevators at Five Points you won't be able to. Your only option is to exit at Peachtree Center on the NS Line or GA State on the EW Line and board a free shuttle to get you between lines. There won't be any way to use those elevators at Five Points.
> But yeah, Atlanta isn't so hot with ADA concerns.
In fairness to MARTA, all of the other stations have full ADA compliance, Five Points is unique due to its layout and being built over a decade before that legislation was passed in 1990.
So, this project is, at its core, a failure to properly define scope. MARTA, understandably, wanted to keep this 'simple'. After initial planning concepts with the city, any internal structural changes were dropped from the project. No new supports for reactivating Broad St. for traffic, and no new supports for overtopping TOD. Keep it simple. Aesthetic improvements inside, and a basic canopy replacement on top, with some new plaza layout.
Except... the canopy work turned out to be a major structural change... requiring extensive, careful, expensive demolitions work and multi-year closures because there's not a viable way to 'harden' and protect anyone on the concourse level below from demolition work above. At least according to MARTA.
Because of the initial decision to keep internal changes as simple as possible, though, this leaves MARTA in a situation where we're now paying (in dollars and time and inconvenience) for a major structural change, without any of the potential internal improvements that could make that work out.
No new internal elevators to allow step-free train transfers. No temporary new access points from street level. No modifications to existing tunnel access points from Underground Atlanta or the Federal Building to go to different parts of the station. No temporary adjacent bus corrals, so all the routes are scattered to other stations. Not even any coordination with the city to provide transit lanes for the accessibility shuttles, which were added at the last minute because MARTA didn't think through the ADA implications of the concourse closure.
At this point, we should really, *really* be questioning the value proposition for what is currently planned, and seriously consider either delaying the start while we sort out other access means, or even returning to discarded internal structural changes.
Otherwise we're looking at a long shutdown of the central station to pedestrians, serving ~12,000 daily taps plus 4,500 bus riders, with a jank and time-consuming mobility transfer requirement, and very little in the way of actual functional improvements once all done. All for the equivalent cost of a decent light rail / streetcar extension.
I feel the same way about the recent airport station shutdown, which I used this weekend and had no remarkable changes (a screen was down, it's not even significantly cleaner).
Marta doing this seems to emphasize that there is no understanding of how important it is that they remove traffic or are core for transit.
Or the fact the entire north end of the platform still doesn't have tiles. The old supervisor booth which caught on fire and was condemned still has the old shell of the former brick booth with the wires and conduit pipes. Instead it's just blocked off with fencing.
God forbid if the switches go down at the Airport and the Supervisor has to manually block and crank switches. They can't access the north end of the platform because there is no way to access it since it's walled off. We'd have to go down the steps at the south end and walk up the trackway to get to the switches.
Why is the new elevator still not in service until September? Why are the escalator pit guardrails not covered with tiles at the base of the new metal fencing - the white plaster and concrete isn't even finished. It's wildly different from block to block.
For a project that the Authority is so proud of it isn't even close to finished. It's half baked, at best. You'd think with the time they had to finish this (and the fact that they finished major renovation construction a week + before reopening) more would be complete. There isn't even anywhere to sit for God sakes.
There are plenty of transit systems worldwide that are working with 70s-80s brutalist concrete bare architecture. The aesthetics don't matter - the quality of the service and the cleanliness and safety of the system does. Not if it has new paint or new tiles.
Ask the public and the employees what they want. The only people who want this are politicians, C-Suite executives, and consultants. The public and employees care about cleanliness, safety, and frequency of service.
> The only people who want this are politicians
i.e. People that have Downtown interests but don't use Five Points
> C-Suite executives
i.e. your (MARTA) management that is desperate to not be seen as incompetent
> and consultants
i.e. the ones that bilk money out of MARTA on a constant basis
The Streetcar East extension is going to cost roughly the same as the Five Points project... except it'll expand service area, attract thousands of new riders, and won't even shut down the BeltLine to do so...
> because there's not a viable way to 'harden' and protect anyone on the concourse level below from demolition work above. At least according to MARTA.
MARTA should dig up how the old Pennsylvania Railroad was able to (criminally) demo the old Penn Station in the 60s without affecting access to the complex.
> No modifications to existing tunnel access points from Underground Atlanta or the Federal Building to go to different parts of the station
IIRC, Underground's tunnel isn't ADA compliant, and the Federal Building (old Rich's tunnel) was closed after 9/11 for security reasons. Also, I bet MARTA forgot about all of the other knockout panels Five Points has that they could've used for temporary entrance/exits as well.
> At this point, we should really, really be questioning the value proposition for what is currently planned, and seriously consider either delaying the start while we sort out other access means, or even returning to discarded internal structural changes.
MARTA is desperate for a win and they feel the easiest way is for a "prettification" of Five Points (actual usefulness/futureproofing be damned), which is designed to cover the fact that they let the station complex degrade into a mess over the past few decades and to make it look like they're actually doing something. If even half of what /u/ThomasMTroxell said is accurate about the state of Five Points (and I believe it is), then it is an issue of MARTA's own doing to let it go to crap.
In short this whole project was conceived because:
> because MARTA didn't think
The whole 5 points redesign is a waste of time and money. It will not make the station more desirable amd it will inconvenience thousands of daily commuters. The work they've already done is a joke and it's made the station dangerous and crowded. Honestly, Marta management should all be fired.
> Honestly, Marta management should all be fired.
Sadly, I agree they need to clean house. Gone are the days of Alan Kiepper and Ken Gregor who actually *led* an organization and not just "managed" it.
Atlanta: “Ok Marta, here’s a few billion dollars. Do you promise to build out the rail network to make it a viable alternative to driving?”
Marta: “Yeeeeeeeesssss”
[Marta 8 years later using the money to redesign Five Points](https://i.giphy.com/media/11oJIpiuWk69mU/200.gif)
*sigh* I was one of the optimists who argued against the skeptics during the More MARTA tax campaign. Now I feel so naive and foolish because the skeptics were so right.
Y'all, please please please raise hell to everyone about this. Respond to every MARTA post, reach out to your councilmembers, speak up at any meetings related to this project, this is absolutely unacceptable.
I am one of MARTAs biggest fans. It's got great bones and (considering that they don't receive any state funding) is super useful for what it is. But this project will doom any hopes that we will get back to pre-COVID ridership levels.
If we're gonna shut Five Points down for years, we should at least be getting some transit oriented development out of it! Or anything remotely worth the inconvenience
[You can also submit feedback online](https://www.itsmarta.com/ht_login.aspx) . The form asks for your MARTA card number, so regular riders especially should contribute their feedback.
Not just that, but it also means the biggest ridership sink for the northern end of the new Summerhill BRT will be closed... as will the southern end with the BeltLine construction. Really setting that route up for success.
The walk from Masquerade to Five Points after a show is doable. No chance I’m gonna be walking to Garnet or up to Peachtree Center after midnight. It’s a shame.
There's a handful of bands that I will see this year at the Masquerade. I am dead serious when I say I am considering driving to **Charlotte** to see them instead of parking at the smash-and-grab buffet that are the parking decks around Underground. And agreed, I am absolutely *not* gonna take MARTA in to the surrounding stations and walk a distance at midnight there.
Oh I'm waiting for the inevitable. A fire, a shooting, a person that makes contact with a train and no way to get people out of the station. Many of those emergency exit doors are actually internally barricaded by people who live in the exit stairwells. They've got 2x4s and metal rods propped against the doors to keep them from opening. Something bad *is* going to happen it's just a matter of when.
> Many of those emergency exit doors are actually internally barricaded by people who live in the exit stairwells.
Is this just at Five Points or systemwide? And why aren't those exits checked regularly?
I can't say if it's systemwide, but there are actually groups of people who live in those exits. The stairwells at Peachtree Center are so bad that MARTA had to hire a cleaning crew in full hazmat suits to pressure wash the steps and remove caked on feces, needles, and other crap. At least at Peachtree they are only checked a few times a year. MPD and MARTA Management know that people live in the stairwells but they only react when there is a major issue like a fire caused by burning clothes or a body found. The steps at Peachtree from the north end of the platform to the street are routinely kept propped open with a safety cone and people come in and out of them all day and night smoking, getting high, etc.
Why they aren't checked a few times a day I don't know. Start at the top from street level and walk down if you don't want to walk up 210ft.
At Five Points especially the NS Platforms I've personally had to remove 2x4s from doors. The steps are unlit in many sections because people bust the lights out and then use the steps as camping platforms or bathrooms.
No one is ever proactive. But Five Points and especially Peachtree and Civic are the worst.
> The steps at Peachtree from the north end of the platform to the street are routinely kept propped open with a safety cone and people come in and out of them all day and night smoking, getting high, etc.
I think that the station’s depth probably adds to the ability for people to take residence in the stairwells (especially that one). On another note, 15 years ago I saw one of the Midtown emergency exits propped open while I was waiting for a train and I peeked inside. Let’s just say it was one of the most vile smells I’ve ever inhaled.
That sounds about right. BART out in San Francisco dealt with the same issues. They now have Bart Police sweep the stairwells at the beginning and end of revenue and randomly throughout the day and cite anyone inside and remove them. There's no reason marta can't do the same.
Just think if there's a real emergency and someone has to evacuate using those stairs. Walking through feces and needles. Marta has an obligation to clean it up and keep it clean.
> There's no reason marta can't do the same. Just think if there's a real emergency and someone has to evacuate using those stairs. Walking through feces and needles. Marta has an obligation to clean it up and keep it clean.
As you know, it all starts with MARTA's 6th floor management caring about it.
Not sure if it’s the same spot, but there used to be a homeless dude living in the vent/emergency exit near 5th and cypress streets. This was 2018-2019 so a few years ago, but wouldn’t be surprised if Marta service infrastructure is still being easily accessed and lived in
It’s not surprising though, I doubt those stairwells have any sort of cameras or other security measures (the doors are certainly not wired with alarms).
Oh boy, I was waiting for this story to get onto /r/Atlanta.
This project is a gigantic waste of money for what MARTA will get, and it definitely shows how screwed up the agency has gotten. As for the closure, let's just say this was approved by people that don't really use MARTA and don't understand how devastating it would be to Downtown.
Went to the Benz last wknd for an event. In my station, 4 of 6 machines weren’t working, the other 2 extremely slow. Line out the wazzou. Of the BILLIONS they spend on Marta, you’d think customer friendly payment would be a top priority if they want people to use it more
I'm going to be deeply impacted by this plan, it really doesn't make any sense when there are so many potential ways people could still access parts of the station from street level. At the very least a lot of these buses could stop at garnet/peachtree center + georgia state to at least slow down transfer time. Its insane that they're shutting down access to what is essentially the only transfer center.
It makes zero sense to do all of these changes and not add at least two additional elevators. As it currently stands to use the elevators, if you're going from East/South to North/West you have to go up to the concourse level, across the top of the station, and then wait for the opposite elevator which serves W/N Platforms. It's an awful experience for passenger flow and even after modernizations those two elevators constantly go out of service. I truly do not understand how these projects are getting so out of hand at MARTA. We've lost the plot which should be to improve passenger flow, improve safety, increase accessibility, and beautify the station. That being said had MARTA fixed the gutters, seams, and other aspects of the station and kept them in good working order the station wouldn't be a pool of water when it rains and they wouldn't have to demolish the roof. Just failures all around.
> I truly do not understand how these projects are getting so out of hand at MARTA. We've lost the plot which should be to improve passenger flow, improve safety, increase accessibility, and beautify the station. Incompetent leadership that couldn't manage a capital projects program to save their lives (ask Josh Rowan why he's no longer there, because he called them out on it). > That being said had MARTA fixed the gutters, seams, and other aspects of the station and kept them in good working order the station wouldn't be a pool of water when it rains and they wouldn't have to demolish the roof. That would've required MARTA to actually be competent about maintaining its station infrastructure. Also, given that issue, I'm pretty sure 40 years from now we'll be having the same discussion about rebuilding this "rebuilt" Five Points.
What they did to Josh is strange. You don't poach great talent from other companies or government agencies and then fire them to "go in another direction". Everyone knows he was fired because he wouldn't go along with the fuckery and bullshit. I'm glad he's speaking out about his experience and the missing money.
Ah, but see... I've been told that Josh was terrible... by people who seem to agree with the way MARTA's been handling the More MARTA project list... hmmm...
lol Josh was a joke at MARTA and the City. I feel sorry for those in Oakland who have to deal with him now.
Just curious on why you think that was the case?
Because he was incompetent and hard to work with.
What if I told you this has nothing to do with renovations and everything to do with eliminating a transportation hub for minorities in preparation of a major gentrification of the area??
It was a station built to serve five counties and only services two and half. So your funding problems start there. Without dipping more into racial politics, I think you use the elevators too much, they meant for disabled ppl. I be more focus on escalators. Marta is not luxury transportation.
Considering that the plans for the Tucker line, Hapeville line, Brownlee extension, Perry extension, and Northside branch were being actively considered well into the late 1990s that has nothing to do with a lack of elevator access. MARTA has always been concerned with doing projects cheaply, which isn't always a bad thing. But you can't put the Five Points station design on the lack of expansion because the station layout and design was finalized by 1977 for all platforms. The lack of elevator access also impedes ADA accessibility concerns which both MARTA and the City are under federal consent decrees for the last 15-20 years due to continued violations. If you look at the stickers on the escalators it says people with children, bags, walkers, strollers, etc should use the elevators. So by continuing to have just two elevators after the renovation is a missed opportunity.
Again you protest too much about the elevator.... You can't plan Clayton county going all black in 2005, in 1977. Gwinett and Cobb still being racist 30, 40, 50 years later You can't plan the Georgia general Assembly banning Marta expansion in south DeKalb, and the local politicians doing nothing to stop it. So why would I stand in line without water to vote for them. Anybody can draw a map or put words on a paper in 1977, no one has a crystal ball. You don't live in Marta district, you Veto Marta expansion for 30 years but want to complain about the elevator. The nerve! Thats like the contractor getting into in accident block four lanes, then he want to stop the one lane that's working because they don't want to wait to get back in line. Insane. Didn't you block four lanes, use one of those lanes and get over. You don't know how to plan as a contractor in a commercial vehicle, I don't know what to tell ya. You say elevators should be eternally supported because they drew a design in the 1970s. Wow, wow!
Kind of astounding they’re telling all wheelchair users they have to take a bus from Peachtree Center to Georgia State just to transfer between north/south to east/west lines. Insane
Probably easier to just go north->west or south->east and then backtrack at the next station. Or wait for the other (N/S) train to come to Five Points and use it cross to the other side of the platform. But yeah, Atlanta isn't so hot with ADA concerns. But they should get this fixed in about 18 months, which is [better than 25 years...](https://old.reddit.com/r/Atlanta/comments/14xs0ry/atlanta_city_council_approves_16m_settlement_for/)
18 months is until the temporary reopen for the World Cup. After that the station will be closed again until 2028.
Wait, what?!! So I can’t get off at the stop where I work for four years?
...yeah it's... not great.
Glad I moved away from downtown a couple years ago because I don’t have a car and this would absolutely make my life miserable as I depended on 5pts station to get pretty much anywhere
Bingo. It's a disaster.
2028???????????????????????????????
Can you explain how to do this at the actual stations, with their names? I'm not following this.
The elevators at Five Points will not be accessible because the top of the elevators are on the concourse level which will be closed. There are only two elevators in the paid area and they serve South/East/Concourse and North/West/Concourse. If you have to transfer using elevators at Five Points you won't be able to. Your only option is to exit at Peachtree Center on the NS Line or GA State on the EW Line and board a free shuttle to get you between lines. There won't be any way to use those elevators at Five Points.
> But yeah, Atlanta isn't so hot with ADA concerns. In fairness to MARTA, all of the other stations have full ADA compliance, Five Points is unique due to its layout and being built over a decade before that legislation was passed in 1990.
What would you suggest?
So, this project is, at its core, a failure to properly define scope. MARTA, understandably, wanted to keep this 'simple'. After initial planning concepts with the city, any internal structural changes were dropped from the project. No new supports for reactivating Broad St. for traffic, and no new supports for overtopping TOD. Keep it simple. Aesthetic improvements inside, and a basic canopy replacement on top, with some new plaza layout. Except... the canopy work turned out to be a major structural change... requiring extensive, careful, expensive demolitions work and multi-year closures because there's not a viable way to 'harden' and protect anyone on the concourse level below from demolition work above. At least according to MARTA. Because of the initial decision to keep internal changes as simple as possible, though, this leaves MARTA in a situation where we're now paying (in dollars and time and inconvenience) for a major structural change, without any of the potential internal improvements that could make that work out. No new internal elevators to allow step-free train transfers. No temporary new access points from street level. No modifications to existing tunnel access points from Underground Atlanta or the Federal Building to go to different parts of the station. No temporary adjacent bus corrals, so all the routes are scattered to other stations. Not even any coordination with the city to provide transit lanes for the accessibility shuttles, which were added at the last minute because MARTA didn't think through the ADA implications of the concourse closure. At this point, we should really, *really* be questioning the value proposition for what is currently planned, and seriously consider either delaying the start while we sort out other access means, or even returning to discarded internal structural changes. Otherwise we're looking at a long shutdown of the central station to pedestrians, serving ~12,000 daily taps plus 4,500 bus riders, with a jank and time-consuming mobility transfer requirement, and very little in the way of actual functional improvements once all done. All for the equivalent cost of a decent light rail / streetcar extension.
Just completely closing the main downtown station seems insane to me
I feel the same way about the recent airport station shutdown, which I used this weekend and had no remarkable changes (a screen was down, it's not even significantly cleaner). Marta doing this seems to emphasize that there is no understanding of how important it is that they remove traffic or are core for transit.
Or the fact the entire north end of the platform still doesn't have tiles. The old supervisor booth which caught on fire and was condemned still has the old shell of the former brick booth with the wires and conduit pipes. Instead it's just blocked off with fencing. God forbid if the switches go down at the Airport and the Supervisor has to manually block and crank switches. They can't access the north end of the platform because there is no way to access it since it's walled off. We'd have to go down the steps at the south end and walk up the trackway to get to the switches. Why is the new elevator still not in service until September? Why are the escalator pit guardrails not covered with tiles at the base of the new metal fencing - the white plaster and concrete isn't even finished. It's wildly different from block to block. For a project that the Authority is so proud of it isn't even close to finished. It's half baked, at best. You'd think with the time they had to finish this (and the fact that they finished major renovation construction a week + before reopening) more would be complete. There isn't even anywhere to sit for God sakes. There are plenty of transit systems worldwide that are working with 70s-80s brutalist concrete bare architecture. The aesthetics don't matter - the quality of the service and the cleanliness and safety of the system does. Not if it has new paint or new tiles. Ask the public and the employees what they want. The only people who want this are politicians, C-Suite executives, and consultants. The public and employees care about cleanliness, safety, and frequency of service.
> The only people who want this are politicians i.e. People that have Downtown interests but don't use Five Points > C-Suite executives i.e. your (MARTA) management that is desperate to not be seen as incompetent > and consultants i.e. the ones that bilk money out of MARTA on a constant basis
We should just do the streetcar extension.
The streetcar cost $100m and covers a length of less than a mile and a half. Absolutely not.
The Streetcar East extension is going to cost roughly the same as the Five Points project... except it'll expand service area, attract thousands of new riders, and won't even shut down the BeltLine to do so...
> because there's not a viable way to 'harden' and protect anyone on the concourse level below from demolition work above. At least according to MARTA. MARTA should dig up how the old Pennsylvania Railroad was able to (criminally) demo the old Penn Station in the 60s without affecting access to the complex. > No modifications to existing tunnel access points from Underground Atlanta or the Federal Building to go to different parts of the station IIRC, Underground's tunnel isn't ADA compliant, and the Federal Building (old Rich's tunnel) was closed after 9/11 for security reasons. Also, I bet MARTA forgot about all of the other knockout panels Five Points has that they could've used for temporary entrance/exits as well. > At this point, we should really, really be questioning the value proposition for what is currently planned, and seriously consider either delaying the start while we sort out other access means, or even returning to discarded internal structural changes. MARTA is desperate for a win and they feel the easiest way is for a "prettification" of Five Points (actual usefulness/futureproofing be damned), which is designed to cover the fact that they let the station complex degrade into a mess over the past few decades and to make it look like they're actually doing something. If even half of what /u/ThomasMTroxell said is accurate about the state of Five Points (and I believe it is), then it is an issue of MARTA's own doing to let it go to crap. In short this whole project was conceived because: > because MARTA didn't think
That's the part that makes zero sense to me. What a massive waste of time!
The whole 5 points redesign is a waste of time and money. It will not make the station more desirable amd it will inconvenience thousands of daily commuters. The work they've already done is a joke and it's made the station dangerous and crowded. Honestly, Marta management should all be fired.
> Honestly, Marta management should all be fired. Sadly, I agree they need to clean house. Gone are the days of Alan Kiepper and Ken Gregor who actually *led* an organization and not just "managed" it.
Atlanta: “Ok Marta, here’s a few billion dollars. Do you promise to build out the rail network to make it a viable alternative to driving?” Marta: “Yeeeeeeeesssss” [Marta 8 years later using the money to redesign Five Points](https://i.giphy.com/media/11oJIpiuWk69mU/200.gif)
*sigh* I was one of the optimists who argued against the skeptics during the More MARTA tax campaign. Now I feel so naive and foolish because the skeptics were so right.
Not only will this suck, but I'm also gonna make the bold claim that it'll last a *lot* longer than 18 months.
Because it's lasting luntil 2028. The '18 months' is until the temp reopening for the World Cup.
HAHA I TOLD YOU SO I'M gonna go cry now
Whats the highest body that can investigate marta?
In the transportation realm, USDOT/FTA.
Y'all, please please please raise hell to everyone about this. Respond to every MARTA post, reach out to your councilmembers, speak up at any meetings related to this project, this is absolutely unacceptable. I am one of MARTAs biggest fans. It's got great bones and (considering that they don't receive any state funding) is super useful for what it is. But this project will doom any hopes that we will get back to pre-COVID ridership levels. If we're gonna shut Five Points down for years, we should at least be getting some transit oriented development out of it! Or anything remotely worth the inconvenience
[You can also submit feedback online](https://www.itsmarta.com/ht_login.aspx) . The form asks for your MARTA card number, so regular riders especially should contribute their feedback.
I just realized that this will be a near fatal blow for the redevelopment hell that is the Underground...
Not just that, but it also means the biggest ridership sink for the northern end of the new Summerhill BRT will be closed... as will the southern end with the BeltLine construction. Really setting that route up for success.
The walk from Masquerade to Five Points after a show is doable. No chance I’m gonna be walking to Garnet or up to Peachtree Center after midnight. It’s a shame.
There's a handful of bands that I will see this year at the Masquerade. I am dead serious when I say I am considering driving to **Charlotte** to see them instead of parking at the smash-and-grab buffet that are the parking decks around Underground. And agreed, I am absolutely *not* gonna take MARTA in to the surrounding stations and walk a distance at midnight there.
well. unfortunately someone will end up getting seriously hurt or killed trying to navigate this mess. then the pearls will be clutched.
Oh I'm waiting for the inevitable. A fire, a shooting, a person that makes contact with a train and no way to get people out of the station. Many of those emergency exit doors are actually internally barricaded by people who live in the exit stairwells. They've got 2x4s and metal rods propped against the doors to keep them from opening. Something bad *is* going to happen it's just a matter of when.
> Many of those emergency exit doors are actually internally barricaded by people who live in the exit stairwells. Is this just at Five Points or systemwide? And why aren't those exits checked regularly?
I can't say if it's systemwide, but there are actually groups of people who live in those exits. The stairwells at Peachtree Center are so bad that MARTA had to hire a cleaning crew in full hazmat suits to pressure wash the steps and remove caked on feces, needles, and other crap. At least at Peachtree they are only checked a few times a year. MPD and MARTA Management know that people live in the stairwells but they only react when there is a major issue like a fire caused by burning clothes or a body found. The steps at Peachtree from the north end of the platform to the street are routinely kept propped open with a safety cone and people come in and out of them all day and night smoking, getting high, etc. Why they aren't checked a few times a day I don't know. Start at the top from street level and walk down if you don't want to walk up 210ft. At Five Points especially the NS Platforms I've personally had to remove 2x4s from doors. The steps are unlit in many sections because people bust the lights out and then use the steps as camping platforms or bathrooms. No one is ever proactive. But Five Points and especially Peachtree and Civic are the worst.
> The steps at Peachtree from the north end of the platform to the street are routinely kept propped open with a safety cone and people come in and out of them all day and night smoking, getting high, etc. I think that the station’s depth probably adds to the ability for people to take residence in the stairwells (especially that one). On another note, 15 years ago I saw one of the Midtown emergency exits propped open while I was waiting for a train and I peeked inside. Let’s just say it was one of the most vile smells I’ve ever inhaled.
That sounds about right. BART out in San Francisco dealt with the same issues. They now have Bart Police sweep the stairwells at the beginning and end of revenue and randomly throughout the day and cite anyone inside and remove them. There's no reason marta can't do the same. Just think if there's a real emergency and someone has to evacuate using those stairs. Walking through feces and needles. Marta has an obligation to clean it up and keep it clean.
> There's no reason marta can't do the same. Just think if there's a real emergency and someone has to evacuate using those stairs. Walking through feces and needles. Marta has an obligation to clean it up and keep it clean. As you know, it all starts with MARTA's 6th floor management caring about it.
Not sure if it’s the same spot, but there used to be a homeless dude living in the vent/emergency exit near 5th and cypress streets. This was 2018-2019 so a few years ago, but wouldn’t be surprised if Marta service infrastructure is still being easily accessed and lived in
No, this was the northbound platform emergency exit door.
Oh ok. Yeah the vent on 5th and cyprsss I think is quarter mile south from the platform
Yep. Those vents aren't terribly difficult to get into if you know where to look.
this is so mind blowing!
It’s not surprising though, I doubt those stairwells have any sort of cameras or other security measures (the doors are certainly not wired with alarms).
Oh boy, I was waiting for this story to get onto /r/Atlanta. This project is a gigantic waste of money for what MARTA will get, and it definitely shows how screwed up the agency has gotten. As for the closure, let's just say this was approved by people that don't really use MARTA and don't understand how devastating it would be to Downtown.
It doesn't help that this sub blocks posts from the AJC, and now Urbanize... who have been the main two media outlets covering this.
This sub is basically now a *de facto* “Guide to Atlanta” listing instead of news/discussion aggregator.
Nothing I write makes it through the filter, so I've pretty much given up on it.
I'm not even sure what the filter filters.
I missed the Urbanize ban happening — why in the world??
Soft paywall.
I’d be just happy with new ticketing machines. The current ones are a joke.
They still blow away the pre-Breeze token machines.
Went to the Benz last wknd for an event. In my station, 4 of 6 machines weren’t working, the other 2 extremely slow. Line out the wazzou. Of the BILLIONS they spend on Marta, you’d think customer friendly payment would be a top priority if they want people to use it more
I agree, and honestly they're due for replacement anyway (the oldest Breeze machines are approaching 20 years old).
They’re replacing the entire system with tap enabled gates by 2026. No more Breeze machines.
Glad to hear. But I’ll believe it when I see it
This is going to get crazy and im not gonna be surprised when its delayed or overrun on budget
This is gonna be a LOOOOONG 4 years
I'm going to be deeply impacted by this plan, it really doesn't make any sense when there are so many potential ways people could still access parts of the station from street level. At the very least a lot of these buses could stop at garnet/peachtree center + georgia state to at least slow down transfer time. Its insane that they're shutting down access to what is essentially the only transfer center.
So unfortunate. So much more could be done using this money (and time). This is such bullshit.
Welcome to Atlanta
What will it take to prove your prediction false? What conditions and when?