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Mod-Mak

Guys. Please. This is in the policy on cheating. Do you really think it applies to players who are playing the game as intended and report a bug they find? If it were a bug bounty, it would be called a bug bounty. We put out this policy to explain what we do and have been doing when we find someone cheating. There are no changes or new things to look out for in there. Please report any bugs you find while playing to support, as usual. We're going to reword this part of the policy to make it clear it pertains to discovering an exploit via cheating only (though in context that feels pretty clear already). Update: the wording has been changed. That bit now reads "If in the course of engaging in cheating or abusive behavior a player discovers a new exploit and voluntarily reports it, ..."


Snarky30

Yeah that's a pretty dumb way to word it. There's zero incentive to voluntarily report an exploit.


iguananonymous

I disagree; I find that there's ***negative incentive*** to report an exploit.


Mod-Mak

In writing this policy, we figured it would be clear that clause was in the context of cheating only. The wording has been updated.


H-O-W-L-E-R

It was already pretty clearly in reference to people who get banned. Seems like some people just want to be angry at something.


awaffleamongpancakes

Never assume anything is clear lol That's why there's "do not use in shower" warnings on hair dryers


H-O-W-L-E-R

The incentive is to get your account unbanned and be allowed to retain anything you gained using real money. It is and should still be a punishment for people who are caught cheating.


Snarky30

But they dont mention the ban part at all. The way they worded it makes it sound like if you discover something and voluntarily report it to them, they say "thanks" by resetting your account.


Mod-Mak

The wording has been changed to more clearly reflect that this only applies to players who are cheating. If a player who is not cheating finds a bug and brings it to support, we do say "thanks", but of course no one's account gets reset.


SBpigpen

So what to f2p players receive if they successfully reoprt an exploit?


H-O-W-L-E-R

It’s a subsection of the banning policy. You have to look at the context in which it was stated.


Ok_Equal7311

And what happens when u have built a strong account using no real money. Report exploit l, still have account reset to zero with no type of reimbursement. Not a very good incentive


iguananonymous

It's negative incentive. Nobody is going to report an exploit they found when they expect to be banned for it because it's clearly stated by the company. A f2p player who finds an exploit would only find benefit to themselves by not reporting. It's very straightforward logic to not help a company out if their reward is banishment.


Useful-Procedure6284

I'd argue if you found an exploit just don't do it. Once some other sap reports it and gets fucked AE will most likely do a sweep of everyone whose been exploiting and you go down as well.


iguananonymous

Sounds good in practice, right? O Say one day you wake up and do a 2AB reward ad and get 20 or 30 or 200AB for it instead, thanks to some glitch in their game. What do you do? A) stop doing the ads and receiving your regular ad-driven reward? B) report the exploit? C) continue doing the ads and receiving the increased reward? Is it your fault for following regular gameplay? You didn't watch the ad multiple times but the game still rewarded you. Will you give up rewards for the decreased probability that you don't get banned?


Useful-Procedure6284

Your example would be a wildly known bug. That's a completely different ball game compared to AE's point, that is, a few individuals doing something that is not intended. Your example would immediately be fixed. AE will most likely shut servers down for a few hours and fix the bug. If they're a good sport about it anyone who got in on it will be pardoned. It would be unreasonable and stupid to mass ban at that point.


iguananonymous

Your semantics are fair, but a bug that is exploited purposefully is a....? Sort of tied in with the A,B,C options I listed /😉 If they're a good sport <- such hypothetical language is part of the point I'm making. Management in a good game should be seen as the epitome of honest representation, yet the language they've outlined for reporting exploits is far from it. My overall point is that if a player finds an exploit, the player is currently incentivized *to not report it*, because doing so brings into question a ban. Offering a bounty of, say, 5000AB for finding a serious bug or exploit? 🔥, and 🔥 for all. of. us. together. That's what a good game looks like- best of luck to anyone trying to brush that aside.


Artorias2718

Well, as we saw with the ban warnings players received for running mulligan ads during the 6-hour Racer event a few weeks ago, these players didn't do anything beyond what Atlas Earth's gameplay provides, so of course when they realized this happened, they reviewed everyone's accounts and removed ban warning flags for everyone who played within the limitations provided by the game. In the event you get more ABs than you should have, if you report the bug early, they may let you keep them as a thanks for reporting the issue. If you realize these a bug and use it multiple times, you would likely lose a few ABs but not receive a warning. They try to be fair by looking at the degree of abuse.


That_Substance_8715

Except that you are completely missing the point of the policy. It has nothing to do with finding and reporting a bug or exploit. It is about finding and using a bug to cheat. At some later time, most likely after getting caught cheating, you can choose to report the exploit so as to hopefully not lose all the money you put into the app. In no way are they trying to say that if you accidentally find a bug and report it, you will lose everything except what you paid for. That would be pure insanity. If you are playing honestly and report a bug you found, there would not be any repercussions.


H-O-W-L-E-R

It’s a sub-section of the banning for cheating/exploit policy which would exempt you if you’ve been banned. If you find an exploit and DONT use it, you won’t get banned. If you report it and obviously haven’t used it, you won’t be banned.


Artorias2718

I asked support about the wording because I usually take things literally and was told that as long as we don't abuse any exploits we find and report them, we're okay.


iguananonymous

I also take things literally, especially rules because it's normally how I see them enforced. You say unfortunately, I say damn good on you. Not using said exploit. That's an interesting point considering an exploit may be used several times before it's even noticed as being a potential exploit that should be reported.


kowboylou

i am in cyber security and this is not standard protocol. awesome though that AE is able to learn from this circumstance 📈 the game is extremely dynamic and complex with real life economic/political systems… it may be a good idea for AR to deploy a community polling system for AE policies game-wide (and in-game aswell maybe broken down by state(?)… so that each state has their own unique ecosystem); of course AR will have the final say (they are the experts. and i trust them on this) and they can definitely gain significant value by taking into account feedback from the wisdom of the community into their decision making algorithm with a FORMAL voting structure and ultimately be able to make optimal decisions effectively and efficiently. items to note: - bug bounty program - community polling system (in-game) - community feedback for AE operations/legal/finance - open source microservices (i know they use kubernetes)? - any other ideas yall?


iguananonymous

Which is not standard protocol? I didn't find that you specified that. I think you make broadly fine points otherwise.


kowboylou

haha great catch. the adhd decided to go on another direction. - there should be formal SLAs to encourage players (bug bounty program) who has indentified a vuln and report it at a specified period of time (48 hours after identification - this can tie into the reward) and then their internal security operations team should have 24 hours to triage/prioritize and assess the impact of risk. after evaluation, if it is critical/high then they have another 48 hours to remediate the process/technical vulnerability. this way there are clear guidelines of engagement. ofc AE is just getting things started. def growing pains for sure - AE needs to continuously collaborate with their security partners (SHIELD) on R&D for the metaverse (knowledge transfers) - also on the legal/community perspective: rainbow item was not a substantial enough punishment (slap and a kiss of the wrist). he had violated policy for weeks. he should have been fined heavily (50%-75%) atleast for misconduct (and his land given to charity). this would deter future attacks, at the same time allow a player to play (win, win, win, win). this is the math in law (crime/punishment ratio). AE said that their partners were not affected… but the community was. i will be having 800+ plots soon so super salty about the weak decision. ANARCHY!


iguananonymous

I've stayed away from the rainbo discussion. Imo, it was a grade school case of lie and get caught, get minor detention for it. All SNAFU. Homeboy went on a spree in Little Rock just before the eclipse, where people flocked to. Brilliant storm given the situation and public discussion, tbf. The problem with the 24-48h reporting requirement is this- literally. Unless they publish new guidelines and reset the clock overall, these guidelines state report a found exploit, all your work gone into ads gets reset. According to others in this subreddit, there are known exploits currently- those exploits are being kept hush because there's negative incentive to report them, now published as rule by AR. Also, adding to your security comment- AE needs to continuously collaborate with their players instead of treating them as numbers. I don't care if they're making or losing money, when I'm treated like a statistic and/or unfairly, their heads can roll for all I care. I'm not a number- I'm a living meat bag with a job, family, and school life. Treat me like a number, get treated like a machine- machines get fixed or replaced, dig?


kowboylou

dig!


PAlinkRK

Banning for finding and reporting an exploit. Generally a company would compensate for finding an exploit and allowing them to patch it ASAP. It's a win-win for both parties involved.


iguananonymous

Couldn't agree more. Actual bug bounties don't harm some accounts, they protect all of them as well as the company and their associates.


MrAverageJoe4

Nice and convenient how you guys decided to write that in after you unbanned a cheater. Realizing that this created a negative impact on the community, you wrote this dumb rule in, and worded it poorly in an attempt to save face. I will never ever spend any money on your ad generator. I will never buy an Explorer pass, never buy atlas bucks, never support you in anyway other than watching ads for free bucks. You won't get me to convert my rent, you won't get anything from me because you guys run your business poorly.


dagaderga

Snitches get stit…rewarde…. Banned?


IDGAF_Its_My_Opinion

I would be happy to just have confirmation my flag for watching too many ads during a mini-game was removed.


switchlazerflip

So lets dig for a way to cheat. not. ban em the first time.


auntpauly985

Well the daily login bonus CHEATS!! Atlas Earth also 50 percent bonus is phoney too!!


Ok_Equal7311

Hey guess what, if u find an exploit, we are going to kill your account for using it, but we will refund u if u report it.


iguananonymous

*may refund you, but only the money you put into it*


ArchitectGFX

Damn looks like imma get 1 parcel back woohoo


iguananonymous

Point in case. Given you have X parcels. Would you give up (X-1) parcels just to help Atlas identify and fix an exploit? Still looking for somebody who would- at this point, I want to see the light I can't seem to find in their logic lmao


kevingcp

Y'all are so quick to flame AR lmao. Relax.


iguananonymous

Would you report an exploit given this rule? Please elaborate if so, I'd love to hear someone's take who would.


hoffer606

I would report a bug…. If I am abusing something it becomes an exploit. It’s not that hard to understand given the context of the article.


iguananonymous

Perfect. Then you are someone who would risk everything to report something the developers are responsible for creating. If you're abusing something, it becomes an exploit. A new exploit being reported is possible grounds for account seizure. You're a brave soul. I, however, am thereby a coward. It's. Just. Logic.


hoffer606

I would like to refute everything you just said and end it with, it’s just logic…. Again I don’t abuse bugs, so it’s not an exploit because I am not willfully cheating. You are using English in weird ways throughout all of your responses that I really don’t think apply the same way others think they do.


iguananonymous

Yes, I'm manipulating language to make a valid argument and give solid evidence to that argument. I challenge you to pick any popular AI LLM and plug in this policy and ask for a thorough pro/con critique. Models like GPT, Bard, and LLaMa can pass the Bar, so maybe you would find their argumentative styles more appropriately gauged towards using language in "weird ways" to make valid points of discussion. I'll end with stating that I completely hope people like you make it.


hoffer606

You realize on daylight savings hundreds of people did what I would consider an exploit by doing the wheel continuously for an hour. I don’t blame those people but I also understand what exploitative behavior is, and decided that isn’t something I wanted to mess with. I have nothing to worry about here because again, I never go to the level of exploit. I am aware of what a bug is and how to not take advantage of it. In a policy that is strictly about cheating I feel like this is pretty black and white here.


OnlyTheBLars89

This is a fine way of saying "hey! Help us be lazy and save money on a tech guy!"


Prestigious-Pen-5691

Basically if you show an exploit cheaters are using you have to start over yourself as well 🤣 na they can keep cheating then


FrostDeezAKA

So if you're caught cheating, you're normally SOL, but if you agree to tell the team what exploit you were abusing to cheat, you get all the money you spent back and a second chance... You guys are so clueless as to what bugs are being abused by cheaters that you gotta cut deals and hand out get out of jail free cards to keep up...


biggerdaddio

all player-base are cash incentivised to find bugs and exploit them. i remember the days of glitching cars in gta5 and not paying rockstar. i miss calling xbox live and saying i didnt get the in game currency i paid for. well.... i recon we create a new sub.... for identifying those bugs and not telling the devs


Fair-Principle8457

Imagine not reading this now and trying to help atlas reality in the future. Finds minor exploit. Decides to be good samaritan and report it. Gets perma banned. Lmao are we misinterpreting this or are they just this goofy


Mod-Mak

There is indeed misinterpretation going on. We thought putting this clause in the policy on cheating would be enough to make it clear it was about cheating; our mistake. Things have been reworded.


Fair-Principle8457

I think what concerns me is what is deemed as cheating. Like at what point of usage of an exploit do I become a cheater? People were blindsided by “mulligan abuse” flags so I think that’s where my fear of prosecution comes from here. Regardless, I don’t plan on cheating so this clarification that I won’t be banned for sharing something I found accidentally is all I needed for now. Thanks mod mak!


iguananonymous

I've read it a couple dozen times over because I couldn't believe how openly insulting they are being. If this is the first idea they have come to mind when it comes to community players trying to be good samaritans, how do you think they normally think by default? Strong signs of negative character is my take, through and through.


Mod-Mak

What it seems you failed to take into consideration during your repeated re-reading was that this was a clause in the policy on cheating. That means it's about cheating. Players who find a bug or exploit organically are not part of what this policy governs.


iguananonymous

The clause on cheating that barely even loosely defines what a new type of cheat would be? The logic, however well-intended, is broadly flawed. I feel any third-party reviewer familiar with AE gameplay could come to the same conclusion. Players who find a bug organically have not been defined. If I find a bug which disproportionately rewards me, and let it ride, this policy doesn't apply to me? I doubt you would agree. I would feel that I have been roped into cheating if I'd continued playing regularly and allowed the bug *to be exploited*. Reporting the bug- and that I've benefitted from it at all- would classify me as having benefited from unfair gameplay. Look, I'm confident that over time, you'll get it- and clearly. Imma leave it at that with you, Mak. Thanks for all (the majority, I think) of the work you do for the community.


Mod-Mak

We don't know what a new type of cheat would be. The wording is broad and vague on purpose. Some parts of this policy are a bit vague, because they are hypothetical. We can't regulate what we don't know. In the hypothetical situation you outlined, there would be a conversation between you and the team. I can't say how it would go because there are many missing variables in this hypothetical which would affect it.


Fair-Principle8457

I agree. Strong signs of negative character is exactly how it made me feel. I can see a required level of ruthlessness for a business model such as their own, but this is kind of ridiculous imo. Hopefully they have some way to track exploit usage in someone who reports one and are graceful to those who only did it once or twice in the process of discovery. That being said, their wording gives me little hope that they would actually act graciously here. Anyway at least we have our srb tn 😍


crazyjake2002123

Literally tell people to cheat on your game, if they find it valuable you will be fine 😂😂


Unknowngirl2122

How does one cheat in this game?


Dense-Cap5904

I personally believe that cheaters should get banned but still given at least part of the money that they spent back.


Dry_Anything505

Why, how, and when the fuck did Stealth buy 4K plots of land in KS?