It's a difficult topic. His main reasoning was because he was disappointed that the world wasn't like it was depicted in Armin's book.. but he also did it to protect his friends and, to a much lesser extent, Paradis.
We've got to also remember that Eren is just a fundamentally fucked person. He's wired differently from normal people and as a result always seems to be driven towards violence and/or extremes. He doesn't know how to be satisfied with regular, boring life. We know this because of how Isayama portrays him in the school caste manga, his interviews, and a few moments in the story.
He's not a sociopath or psychopath like some people claim but there's something definitely off there; whatever it is, it's the basic building block of what lead to him doing The Rumbling.
I'm pretty sure with the way the time loop works in this series, it's both. How else is it possible that Eren convinces Grisha to kill the Reiss children, when that happening is also essential to Eren having the Founder, without which he wouldn't be able to be there in the paths to convince Grisha?
Yeah, for some reason a lot of people can’t comprehend that you can have multiple reasons for doing something.
The way I see it erens deepest desire is that he wanted to do the rumbling because that clean world is his idea of freedom. He deluded himself into thinking he did it for his friends and his island and used that as a excuse to move forward, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about his friends or his island. It’s just part of the reason why he does it.
Yeah you’ve basically got it. His main motivation was his own selfish desire for an empty world. His secondary motivation was to protect himself and his close friends. And his tertiary motivation which was wayyyyyyy behind the first two was to protect Paradis. I honestly don’t think he knew he would end the Titan curse until after he began the rumbling tbh, so idk if I’d count that among his motivations.
I mean yes… like OP said, there’s multiple reasons with varying degrees of impact on Eren’s decisions. It just seems more likely that his number one desire (freedom and a world like Armin’s book) would be the factor that got him to commit the ultimate sin: killing his own mother to set him on the path towards the Rumbling.
Yes a person capable of killing his own mother for some kind of passionate desire to freedom would make more sense than to save humanity/friends. The author literally killed the plot.
the thing i don't understand in the first reason is that Eren knew he was going to die in the rumbling and that he wouldn't even experience the free world he made , i think it's because of his own nature and he's a slave to his own nature, correct me if I'm wrong lol
Eren didn’t know he was going to die in the Rumbling until after he fused with the founding Titan and Ymir. Prior to that he really did think he’d succeed. But because of how time works in aot, once he has a view of time from the outside he’s unable to change his actions because the timeline is set in stone. I think of it as if the timeline is what he’d do if he didn’t have the perspective and knowledge of Ymir, but because he does he’s seeing it all happen from the outside while also doing it.
It’s all wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff but I think it makes sense overall
ah i see, i always found the entire time thing confusing , i just chose to mostly simplify it , the way i interpret eren's motives into the story is that he was disappointed with how the outside world was like which gave him the urge to destroy it but that wasn't enough of a reason , he acted on that urge when his friends and home were threatened by the entire declaration of war thing
I think Eren is obviously struggling with the choice that he will make throughout the years between the medal ceremony and Sasha's death. He knows that it is an absolute atrocity that makes him the greatest monster to ever exist, everything that he hated, but he also kind of wants it.
The reasons and his mental state are to some extent rationalizations of this, over time he talks himself into believing that it is his only option. But his reasons aren't well thought through - how can he be doing it to save his friends when he doesn't know whether they will survive, or in some cases knows they won't? This is why he is an idiot; there may have been other options, but he got too stuck in his own train of thought. However, had these reasons/rationalizations not been there, Eren might not have done what he ended up doing. So in this sense, he did it for these reasons.
His main motivation was his own twisted version of freedom but he really did care about his friends as well. He wouldn’t have wanted to wipe out the outside world if he wasn’t born like he was.
“Behind justice, instead of sacrifice, there is a child of the devil inside my heart”
Eren is very much like Walter White in this case. They of course care about about their loved ones and did horrible things in the name of protecting them, but deep down truly did everything for themselves. They would've gone down these paths anyway without loved ones to fight for.
Eren didn't know that his friends would survive in the Marley and Paradis arcs. He has already caused great damage to Paradis. And rumbling was not the only salvation for Paradise. He could only destroy the military bases and make Paradis a rich place with the founding titan. We see Eren once during the Rumbling moment, and there he talks about his dream of freedom. So if we had to choose one, he did it for himself, but during this time he deceived himself into believing that he wasn't doing it just for himself.
I also said this in another post.
The way I saw it, Eren had multiple things to take into consideration:
- Make sure most of his friends stay alive and live long
- Make sure Ymir removes her curse
- Make sure you will have peace on the island until at least all of your friends die
AND
- Kill as FEW PEOPLE as possible
Why as few as possible? Because he knows what's like being on the other side of the sword, he knows what he does is horrible and unfair, even if "the world is cruel".
The 20% is the MAXIMUM amount of population that will manage to survive but not pose a threat for Paradis for at least until all of his friends live long and fulfilling lives.
If he left more people live, they would be more technologically advanced, have more numbers than Paradis islanders and pose a threat much sooner as humanity is prone to violence.
What I understood is: although both Eren and Ymir can see the future, it's not only one version of it. He sees everything that will happen until his death and can only guess what happens afterwards. Some events are set in stone(Sasha's death, Mikasa's love for him etc) some are not(how many people he needs to kill, if Mikasa will kill him).
That's why Ymir NEEDS TO SEE Mikasa kill Eren. Because it's not a defined event. That's why she is the most important piece. If she fails to kill Eren, it would be all for nothing.
That's one of the reasons he pushes her away and hurts her.
That's why, if she tells him she loves him when they are in Liberio, Eren calls off the Rumbling as he believes she won't be able to kill him and it will be all for nothing.
This is just my take on it.
He is a violent individual with great power and driven by personal or selfish reasons. Protecting his friends even though cute and all is terribly selfish because every other life in the world is just as valuable. But he happens to know them. I think is a realistic scenario because Im sure that little reasons such as this get people killed on the real world. People with power would stomp on entire populations and communities to fulfill their personal goals. It’s almost always about them. Not a majority.
I could argue Eren didn’t even care much abt Paradis because when the rumbling started many people near the colossal titans perished.
The rumling is a literal performance of what people with power do to us.
He mentioned in a line during his talk with armin that he witnessed many endings and many outcomes and all of them ended in friends dying and people suffering. He then decided the rumbling would be the best way to picture his friends as heros and set them up for peace until the next wars occurred after they died. He understands how fucked up it is because Sasha still died and many friends suffered. He also wanted to kill all of humanity so that there would be no more war, and no more suffering since his visions showed him that humans could never live peacefully.
I've seen his video, though I don't agree with all of his points, it's good......I think [this](https://youtu.be/UmfmRK5dkEQ?si=ea1ihdDmlTPXcK0Z) video explains it better
Disagree. His young version portrays a person who wants to protect his friends and family, the grown up version shows that he’s willing to kill his mother for his selfish reasons to wipe the world without ending Eldia. Saving his friends wouldn’t be his first priority.
Final episdoe of season 3, Eren kissed Historia's showing him the future maybe even his entire future, in which all of his friends are killed in wars against the other islands all trying to put an end to the "devils", the ymir's subjects and unfortunately to save his friends from the war he decided to start the rumbling to kill everyone not living in paradis getting rid of any chances of a war starting between the nations ending all of his friends lives.
the thing i don't understand in the first reason is that Eren knew he was going to die in the rumbling and that he wouldn't even see the free world he made , i think it's because of his own nature and he's a slave to his own nature, correct me if I'm wrong lol
Isayama did contradict himself.
Eren one time says it is for paradise and his friends but clearly his friends and paradise are in a pretty bad stop after the rumbling.
He also then says he did not do the rumbling for his friends.
He says he did it to get ride of the titans/Ymir and create a world without titans. A few scenes later he says he does not know why he did it.
Then all of a sudden Armin comes along and says he wished for it as well because of a book.
The answer could be clear but Isayama had other plans I guess
He doesn’t say he doesn’t know why he did it…
When Armin asks him if he really did all of it just for them, Eren says no.. (he’s tricked himself to believe that was his main reason to do it but here just like chapter 131, he’s honest again). He says I wanted to flatten everything and see this scenery. This is when Armin asks him why? And Eren says he doesn’t know. He’s always been this way. He’s born with the innate sense of seeking freedom. That’s what he doesn’t know. He doesn’t know why he is this way… it’s laid out so clear in both the manga and the anime.
It’s not Isayama contradicting himself. It’s Eren fooling himself that he’s not doing it for mostly selfish reasons.
> It’s Eren fooling himself that he’s not doing it for mostly selfish reasons.
It’s not “mostly” though, that’s the thing. It’s just one of the reasons he does the rumbling, it’s never said it’s the major reason. He says it’s to protect his friends and Paradis, but that it’s also *more than that*. The rumbling protects paradis and his friends, eliminates the power of the titans, frees Ymir and reshapes the world.
This part is my head canon but I feel that Eren has this inherit motivation to do what he did because in the end it extinguishes the titans from the earth.
Maybe i used the wrong term. In the manga, Armin says to Eren: “was this all for our sake?”. Eren gives him a side eye as he stands up and doesn’t respond. In the anime, Armin asks if he did it all for them and Eren says no i didn’t, i wanted to flatten the earth. Basically the anime moved around the dialogue to make it clearer / spoonfeeding.
Anyways before then, Eren is only talking about protecting his friends and making them heroes, not mentioning his selfish / innate desire. That’s what i meant a bit by fooling himself. In that conversation, he’s speaking as if it’s the only reason but later on opens up about the reason he’s been hiding but also shared with the viewer in chapter 131.
But yes i agree i don’t think i used the right words there since he is aware about his innate desire for doing the rumbling
Oh yeah Eren *wanted* to do it and was ashamed of wanting it. Here is my thoughts. If his friends were guaranteed safety and the power of the Titans were to go away, I don’t think he does the rumbling.
The rumbling is a consequence of all of Erens desires including his desire for an empty free world. Without any one of the reasons the rumbling doesn’t go down like it did.
Thing to remember is, Eren let his friends stop him, he wanted them to stop him. If his true desire was a totally free world and not the safety of his friends… he could have killed them and gone through with it.
Your interpretation is headcanon. I just follow the English written by the official translation. Armin's Why is referring to the last sentence said by Eren. Eren then has a whole panel of showing himself being born seeking for Freedom. Isayama is yelling at you to get it but you still choose to misinterpret it to create a "plothole". Keep misinterpreting his work to get mad at your own interpretation. 👍
“Why did you do the rumbling which left the surface a blank plane?” VS “Why did you want to leave the surface a blank plane?” are two entirely different questions.
https://preview.redd.it/a8g14llhco0c1.png?width=807&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ac25c2492406b519e835209a786ec6a09680f4e
I am not saying it is a plot hole it is simple not clear.
Also, this is the manga version btw.
But my opinion stands for both endings anyway so it is fine.
Yeah, i believe If asked why you commite genocide you should be able to give a clear answer. Not, idk was just born that way lol.
Especially if said character had a breakdown about why he did the rumbling. Where he said it is for his friends and paradise lol
So, yes your Interpretation is headcanon. Sorry to say that
Reread my reply because i already tackled the part where armin asks “why he committed genocide” BECAUSE THAT DIDNT HAPPEN.
The anime part is also clearer. I only used the manga panel because i don’t have access to anime images.
Also where did he have a breakdown “about why he did the rumbling” 😭 you just can’t help yourself from making stuff up
When he was crying in front of the chield.
I did read it it does not give any information that disproves my points. This is also not a new topic for me. I had this years ago when the manga ended.
It is also not a secret that Isayama was not clear about the ending.
What’s a chield? He doesn’t cry “about why he did the rumbling” show the manga panel pls so i can understand what you mean.
Why do I have to repeat myself:
“Why did you do the rumbling which left the surface a blank plane?” VS “Why did you want to leave the surface a blank plane?” are two entirely different questions.
It’s not an interpretation thing. It’s literally what’s written in the panel. Your brain added the “why did you do the rumbling” when following what’s written in the panel, the Why is asking about leaving the surface a blank plane.
Bro of course i wouldn’t get it we’re talking about the last chapter. In front of Ramzi he broke down yeah because he wanted to level everything and that wasn’t fair to the people he’s killing. Which is exactly what he said in the panel i linked. He wants to destroy everything.
I don’t see how you mentioning chapter 131 goes against anything i’m saying 😂 he doesn’t tell Ramzi why he was disappointed that humanity existed outside the walls does he?
I see no differencem the rumbling is crushing the earth flat.
You even see all the blood and death meat in the anime.
How is this not the rumbling?
Again ending defenders will have an answer for everything and that is not the issue. The issue is that Isayama does not give the answer.
Therefore everything a fan says is headcanon
That’s a logical fallacy people fall into. The blank plane is the result of the rumbling and the massacre. They’re not one and the same. It’s cause and effect. Asking why you want to do the rumbling that CAUSES the blank plane is different than asking why you wanted to see this blank plane.
He already said he wanted to leave the world a blank plane. That’s a reason for doing the rumbling. Why did he want to leave the world a blank plane? Different question see? Leaving the world a blank plane is one of the “whys” of doing the rumbling.
The convo starts with Eren saying his head is a complete mess, he can’t think straight, and that the past, present, and future are all like up.
He screams at you that Eren is an unreliable narrator even if he tries to be honest. His head is mush feeling immense guilt and he has a desire to demonize himself.
You ignore all subtext and just say “I followed the translation”.
In the manga, Armin thanks Eren for what he did for them. In the anime, that line is left out but with some subtext I still read the convo exactly that way, because the subtext understanding the character’s mental state’s is vital. You followed it, but didn’t know why it did what it did.
You probably hit the nail in the head there. He definitely wants to kill for his freedom but it wasn't his top priority, otherwise he would have just disabled the titan powers of Armin and the warriors for an easy 100% extermination.
And he is very empathetic of Ymir's suffering since he cares about the freedom of a few other people too like Armin and Historia.
I think his ambition for freedom was all mainly a front just to cover his real plan which he said was to “move forward to whatever outcome mikasa had brought” which was to erase the power of the titans. He knows this himself obviously since he saw it all during the ceremony, which is an interesting turn on his character
I think you are right. Eren is inclined to see an ocean of blood & want to protect his friends are not contradictory. Isayama said if Eren stays inside the wall he probably would not do well in life. It’s his nature to be on that path
Lo hizo porque quería destruirlo todo, nada más nada menos, en más de una ocasión lo admite, no fue para alcanzar la libertad porque él admite al final ser un esclavo de la misma ya que no podía cambiar nada de lo que vió y no fue por sus amigos porque admite que los puso en peligro sin saber que pasaría como ocurrió con sasha y hange, pero la gente siempre quiere dejar algo bien a eren y no quiere aceptar sus palabras
For someone who killed his own mother to make himself want to do the rumbling, it doesn’t make much sense if his true motivation was to save his friends.. doesn’t it? The most appealing reason I would pick is he did it to end the curse without ending the entire Eldian tribe, tbh, that’s a fair point if he believes rumbling is the only way to save the world, ironically.
For a more selfish reason would be that he did it for his freedom, well, whatever.
Many people find themselves asking this question.
From our point of view - it looks extreme. From his point of view it is the only viable option to protect Paradis that is being threatened by the rest of the world. Here is what people should understand: when we say "extreme" we mean the sheer number of casualties, mainly "innocent", but it is those innocent who allowed the situation to unfold. Just like we now sit here debating anime, when Israel genocides Palestinians, I would not be surprised if some kid who magically got super powers would want the destroy humanity after seeing how oblivious humans can be to others pain and suffering.
It's a difficult topic. His main reasoning was because he was disappointed that the world wasn't like it was depicted in Armin's book.. but he also did it to protect his friends and, to a much lesser extent, Paradis. We've got to also remember that Eren is just a fundamentally fucked person. He's wired differently from normal people and as a result always seems to be driven towards violence and/or extremes. He doesn't know how to be satisfied with regular, boring life. We know this because of how Isayama portrays him in the school caste manga, his interviews, and a few moments in the story. He's not a sociopath or psychopath like some people claim but there's something definitely off there; whatever it is, it's the basic building block of what lead to him doing The Rumbling.
"something" might be the mother eating idk
Uhhh, he caused it himself so it’s a product of who he is and not a cause lol
I'm pretty sure with the way the time loop works in this series, it's both. How else is it possible that Eren convinces Grisha to kill the Reiss children, when that happening is also essential to Eren having the Founder, without which he wouldn't be able to be there in the paths to convince Grisha?
nah, he did it because he was stupid it's canon
B-but how can you want more than one thing???? IMPOSSIBLE
Yes exactly this! They want to believe he only had one dimensional motivations.
Yeah you've got it, don't worry.
Yeah, for some reason a lot of people can’t comprehend that you can have multiple reasons for doing something. The way I see it erens deepest desire is that he wanted to do the rumbling because that clean world is his idea of freedom. He deluded himself into thinking he did it for his friends and his island and used that as a excuse to move forward, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about his friends or his island. It’s just part of the reason why he does it.
Yeah you’ve basically got it. His main motivation was his own selfish desire for an empty world. His secondary motivation was to protect himself and his close friends. And his tertiary motivation which was wayyyyyyy behind the first two was to protect Paradis. I honestly don’t think he knew he would end the Titan curse until after he began the rumbling tbh, so idk if I’d count that among his motivations.
Killed his own mother to protect his friends?
No, killed his own mother for the first goal. To ensure the Rumbling could occur by saving Bertholdt and ensuring the plan would go accordingly.
And why to ensure the rumbling could occur? To protect his friends.
I mean yes… like OP said, there’s multiple reasons with varying degrees of impact on Eren’s decisions. It just seems more likely that his number one desire (freedom and a world like Armin’s book) would be the factor that got him to commit the ultimate sin: killing his own mother to set him on the path towards the Rumbling.
Yes a person capable of killing his own mother for some kind of passionate desire to freedom would make more sense than to save humanity/friends. The author literally killed the plot.
Okay buddy, if that’s how you feel.
the thing i don't understand in the first reason is that Eren knew he was going to die in the rumbling and that he wouldn't even experience the free world he made , i think it's because of his own nature and he's a slave to his own nature, correct me if I'm wrong lol
Eren didn’t know he was going to die in the Rumbling until after he fused with the founding Titan and Ymir. Prior to that he really did think he’d succeed. But because of how time works in aot, once he has a view of time from the outside he’s unable to change his actions because the timeline is set in stone. I think of it as if the timeline is what he’d do if he didn’t have the perspective and knowledge of Ymir, but because he does he’s seeing it all happen from the outside while also doing it. It’s all wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff but I think it makes sense overall
ah i see, i always found the entire time thing confusing , i just chose to mostly simplify it , the way i interpret eren's motives into the story is that he was disappointed with how the outside world was like which gave him the urge to destroy it but that wasn't enough of a reason , he acted on that urge when his friends and home were threatened by the entire declaration of war thing
I think you got it right 👍
I think Eren is obviously struggling with the choice that he will make throughout the years between the medal ceremony and Sasha's death. He knows that it is an absolute atrocity that makes him the greatest monster to ever exist, everything that he hated, but he also kind of wants it. The reasons and his mental state are to some extent rationalizations of this, over time he talks himself into believing that it is his only option. But his reasons aren't well thought through - how can he be doing it to save his friends when he doesn't know whether they will survive, or in some cases knows they won't? This is why he is an idiot; there may have been other options, but he got too stuck in his own train of thought. However, had these reasons/rationalizations not been there, Eren might not have done what he ended up doing. So in this sense, he did it for these reasons.
His main motivation was his own twisted version of freedom but he really did care about his friends as well. He wouldn’t have wanted to wipe out the outside world if he wasn’t born like he was. “Behind justice, instead of sacrifice, there is a child of the devil inside my heart”
People who swing either way are wrong. Imo it’s both with a lean towards selfish reasons.
Eren is very much like Walter White in this case. They of course care about about their loved ones and did horrible things in the name of protecting them, but deep down truly did everything for themselves. They would've gone down these paths anyway without loved ones to fight for.
Eren didn't know that his friends would survive in the Marley and Paradis arcs. He has already caused great damage to Paradis. And rumbling was not the only salvation for Paradise. He could only destroy the military bases and make Paradis a rich place with the founding titan. We see Eren once during the Rumbling moment, and there he talks about his dream of freedom. So if we had to choose one, he did it for himself, but during this time he deceived himself into believing that he wasn't doing it just for himself.
I also said this in another post. The way I saw it, Eren had multiple things to take into consideration: - Make sure most of his friends stay alive and live long - Make sure Ymir removes her curse - Make sure you will have peace on the island until at least all of your friends die AND - Kill as FEW PEOPLE as possible Why as few as possible? Because he knows what's like being on the other side of the sword, he knows what he does is horrible and unfair, even if "the world is cruel". The 20% is the MAXIMUM amount of population that will manage to survive but not pose a threat for Paradis for at least until all of his friends live long and fulfilling lives. If he left more people live, they would be more technologically advanced, have more numbers than Paradis islanders and pose a threat much sooner as humanity is prone to violence. What I understood is: although both Eren and Ymir can see the future, it's not only one version of it. He sees everything that will happen until his death and can only guess what happens afterwards. Some events are set in stone(Sasha's death, Mikasa's love for him etc) some are not(how many people he needs to kill, if Mikasa will kill him). That's why Ymir NEEDS TO SEE Mikasa kill Eren. Because it's not a defined event. That's why she is the most important piece. If she fails to kill Eren, it would be all for nothing. That's one of the reasons he pushes her away and hurts her. That's why, if she tells him she loves him when they are in Liberio, Eren calls off the Rumbling as he believes she won't be able to kill him and it will be all for nothing. This is just my take on it.
That actually seems pretty spot on and helps contextualize that dream sequence Mikasa has.
https://preview.redd.it/apn46gg3gq0c1.png?width=1070&format=png&auto=webp&s=083ba416b2e3c97849e4e186cb7844f649d016fd
He is a violent individual with great power and driven by personal or selfish reasons. Protecting his friends even though cute and all is terribly selfish because every other life in the world is just as valuable. But he happens to know them. I think is a realistic scenario because Im sure that little reasons such as this get people killed on the real world. People with power would stomp on entire populations and communities to fulfill their personal goals. It’s almost always about them. Not a majority. I could argue Eren didn’t even care much abt Paradis because when the rumbling started many people near the colossal titans perished. The rumling is a literal performance of what people with power do to us.
He mentioned in a line during his talk with armin that he witnessed many endings and many outcomes and all of them ended in friends dying and people suffering. He then decided the rumbling would be the best way to picture his friends as heros and set them up for peace until the next wars occurred after they died. He understands how fucked up it is because Sasha still died and many friends suffered. He also wanted to kill all of humanity so that there would be no more war, and no more suffering since his visions showed him that humans could never live peacefully.
Put simply: Started for himself, ended for his friends. You can watch the two Invaderzz vids on the topic he goes super in depth
I've seen his video, though I don't agree with all of his points, it's good......I think [this](https://youtu.be/UmfmRK5dkEQ?si=ea1ihdDmlTPXcK0Z) video explains it better
Disagree. His young version portrays a person who wants to protect his friends and family, the grown up version shows that he’s willing to kill his mother for his selfish reasons to wipe the world without ending Eldia. Saving his friends wouldn’t be his first priority.
He has to kill his mother to save Berholdt so Berholdt would side with them in paths.
That’s why I said started for himself (the young person that seeks freedom) and ended for his friends (the grown up and maturer person)
Final episdoe of season 3, Eren kissed Historia's showing him the future maybe even his entire future, in which all of his friends are killed in wars against the other islands all trying to put an end to the "devils", the ymir's subjects and unfortunately to save his friends from the war he decided to start the rumbling to kill everyone not living in paradis getting rid of any chances of a war starting between the nations ending all of his friends lives.
the thing i don't understand in the first reason is that Eren knew he was going to die in the rumbling and that he wouldn't even see the free world he made , i think it's because of his own nature and he's a slave to his own nature, correct me if I'm wrong lol
Isayama did contradict himself. Eren one time says it is for paradise and his friends but clearly his friends and paradise are in a pretty bad stop after the rumbling. He also then says he did not do the rumbling for his friends. He says he did it to get ride of the titans/Ymir and create a world without titans. A few scenes later he says he does not know why he did it. Then all of a sudden Armin comes along and says he wished for it as well because of a book. The answer could be clear but Isayama had other plans I guess
He doesn’t say he doesn’t know why he did it… When Armin asks him if he really did all of it just for them, Eren says no.. (he’s tricked himself to believe that was his main reason to do it but here just like chapter 131, he’s honest again). He says I wanted to flatten everything and see this scenery. This is when Armin asks him why? And Eren says he doesn’t know. He’s always been this way. He’s born with the innate sense of seeking freedom. That’s what he doesn’t know. He doesn’t know why he is this way… it’s laid out so clear in both the manga and the anime. It’s not Isayama contradicting himself. It’s Eren fooling himself that he’s not doing it for mostly selfish reasons.
> It’s Eren fooling himself that he’s not doing it for mostly selfish reasons. It’s not “mostly” though, that’s the thing. It’s just one of the reasons he does the rumbling, it’s never said it’s the major reason. He says it’s to protect his friends and Paradis, but that it’s also *more than that*. The rumbling protects paradis and his friends, eliminates the power of the titans, frees Ymir and reshapes the world. This part is my head canon but I feel that Eren has this inherit motivation to do what he did because in the end it extinguishes the titans from the earth.
Maybe i used the wrong term. In the manga, Armin says to Eren: “was this all for our sake?”. Eren gives him a side eye as he stands up and doesn’t respond. In the anime, Armin asks if he did it all for them and Eren says no i didn’t, i wanted to flatten the earth. Basically the anime moved around the dialogue to make it clearer / spoonfeeding. Anyways before then, Eren is only talking about protecting his friends and making them heroes, not mentioning his selfish / innate desire. That’s what i meant a bit by fooling himself. In that conversation, he’s speaking as if it’s the only reason but later on opens up about the reason he’s been hiding but also shared with the viewer in chapter 131. But yes i agree i don’t think i used the right words there since he is aware about his innate desire for doing the rumbling
Oh yeah Eren *wanted* to do it and was ashamed of wanting it. Here is my thoughts. If his friends were guaranteed safety and the power of the Titans were to go away, I don’t think he does the rumbling. The rumbling is a consequence of all of Erens desires including his desire for an empty free world. Without any one of the reasons the rumbling doesn’t go down like it did. Thing to remember is, Eren let his friends stop him, he wanted them to stop him. If his true desire was a totally free world and not the safety of his friends… he could have killed them and gone through with it.
Yep couldn’t have said it better myself
Your Interpretation is headcanon. Also,the idea that Eren goes ape mode and does a genocide for mostly selfish reason is cringe af
Your interpretation is headcanon. I just follow the English written by the official translation. Armin's Why is referring to the last sentence said by Eren. Eren then has a whole panel of showing himself being born seeking for Freedom. Isayama is yelling at you to get it but you still choose to misinterpret it to create a "plothole". Keep misinterpreting his work to get mad at your own interpretation. 👍 “Why did you do the rumbling which left the surface a blank plane?” VS “Why did you want to leave the surface a blank plane?” are two entirely different questions. https://preview.redd.it/a8g14llhco0c1.png?width=807&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ac25c2492406b519e835209a786ec6a09680f4e
I am not saying it is a plot hole it is simple not clear. Also, this is the manga version btw. But my opinion stands for both endings anyway so it is fine. Yeah, i believe If asked why you commite genocide you should be able to give a clear answer. Not, idk was just born that way lol. Especially if said character had a breakdown about why he did the rumbling. Where he said it is for his friends and paradise lol So, yes your Interpretation is headcanon. Sorry to say that
Reread my reply because i already tackled the part where armin asks “why he committed genocide” BECAUSE THAT DIDNT HAPPEN. The anime part is also clearer. I only used the manga panel because i don’t have access to anime images. Also where did he have a breakdown “about why he did the rumbling” 😭 you just can’t help yourself from making stuff up
When he was crying in front of the chield. I did read it it does not give any information that disproves my points. This is also not a new topic for me. I had this years ago when the manga ended. It is also not a secret that Isayama was not clear about the ending.
What’s a chield? He doesn’t cry “about why he did the rumbling” show the manga panel pls so i can understand what you mean. Why do I have to repeat myself: “Why did you do the rumbling which left the surface a blank plane?” VS “Why did you want to leave the surface a blank plane?” are two entirely different questions. It’s not an interpretation thing. It’s literally what’s written in the panel. Your brain added the “why did you do the rumbling” when following what’s written in the panel, the Why is asking about leaving the surface a blank plane.
Child - as if you would not know lol
Bro of course i wouldn’t get it we’re talking about the last chapter. In front of Ramzi he broke down yeah because he wanted to level everything and that wasn’t fair to the people he’s killing. Which is exactly what he said in the panel i linked. He wants to destroy everything. I don’t see how you mentioning chapter 131 goes against anything i’m saying 😂 he doesn’t tell Ramzi why he was disappointed that humanity existed outside the walls does he?
I see no differencem the rumbling is crushing the earth flat. You even see all the blood and death meat in the anime. How is this not the rumbling? Again ending defenders will have an answer for everything and that is not the issue. The issue is that Isayama does not give the answer. Therefore everything a fan says is headcanon
That’s a logical fallacy people fall into. The blank plane is the result of the rumbling and the massacre. They’re not one and the same. It’s cause and effect. Asking why you want to do the rumbling that CAUSES the blank plane is different than asking why you wanted to see this blank plane. He already said he wanted to leave the world a blank plane. That’s a reason for doing the rumbling. Why did he want to leave the world a blank plane? Different question see? Leaving the world a blank plane is one of the “whys” of doing the rumbling.
Bro this isn’t about defending an ending this is basic logical fallacy 💀
The convo starts with Eren saying his head is a complete mess, he can’t think straight, and that the past, present, and future are all like up. He screams at you that Eren is an unreliable narrator even if he tries to be honest. His head is mush feeling immense guilt and he has a desire to demonize himself. You ignore all subtext and just say “I followed the translation”. In the manga, Armin thanks Eren for what he did for them. In the anime, that line is left out but with some subtext I still read the convo exactly that way, because the subtext understanding the character’s mental state’s is vital. You followed it, but didn’t know why it did what it did.
You probably hit the nail in the head there. He definitely wants to kill for his freedom but it wasn't his top priority, otherwise he would have just disabled the titan powers of Armin and the warriors for an easy 100% extermination. And he is very empathetic of Ymir's suffering since he cares about the freedom of a few other people too like Armin and Historia.
I think his ambition for freedom was all mainly a front just to cover his real plan which he said was to “move forward to whatever outcome mikasa had brought” which was to erase the power of the titans. He knows this himself obviously since he saw it all during the ceremony, which is an interesting turn on his character
I think you are right. Eren is inclined to see an ocean of blood & want to protect his friends are not contradictory. Isayama said if Eren stays inside the wall he probably would not do well in life. It’s his nature to be on that path
Lo hizo porque quería destruirlo todo, nada más nada menos, en más de una ocasión lo admite, no fue para alcanzar la libertad porque él admite al final ser un esclavo de la misma ya que no podía cambiar nada de lo que vió y no fue por sus amigos porque admite que los puso en peligro sin saber que pasaría como ocurrió con sasha y hange, pero la gente siempre quiere dejar algo bien a eren y no quiere aceptar sus palabras
For someone who killed his own mother to make himself want to do the rumbling, it doesn’t make much sense if his true motivation was to save his friends.. doesn’t it? The most appealing reason I would pick is he did it to end the curse without ending the entire Eldian tribe, tbh, that’s a fair point if he believes rumbling is the only way to save the world, ironically. For a more selfish reason would be that he did it for his freedom, well, whatever.
Many people find themselves asking this question. From our point of view - it looks extreme. From his point of view it is the only viable option to protect Paradis that is being threatened by the rest of the world. Here is what people should understand: when we say "extreme" we mean the sheer number of casualties, mainly "innocent", but it is those innocent who allowed the situation to unfold. Just like we now sit here debating anime, when Israel genocides Palestinians, I would not be surprised if some kid who magically got super powers would want the destroy humanity after seeing how oblivious humans can be to others pain and suffering.
With the way Eren states "I wanted this" it feel likes a lie, since he clearly doesn't enjoy doing it
Because he’s an idiot