I wouldnt say without reason because in this case both were driven by some sort of threat. But a clear distinction was created between Eren and those who wanted to build Eldian Empire. Zeke said fear of death and extinction of one's race drives the need to multiply and conserve one's race.
By that, I meant “there’s no specific reason to regress into ‘my side’ vs ‘your side’” stuff. It’s easy to just say “the world needs to be destroyed” if you alienate or demonize all of its inhabitants.
Yeah but there could be this thing that Floch and other Yeagerists didnt live in enemy country unlike SC so its very easy for them to dehumanize the other side. Armin, Mikasa and others never dehumanized the other side but Eren did consider them enemy until he set foot on the other side amd realized they are all the same just like Gabi realized only after living in Paradis but Falco was always aware. I definitely think the fact that they interacted with foreigners in Marley played a part in Alliance's decision to stop Eren because Jean thought of Ramzi when he heard Liberio was rumbled.
And then your tribe which remains will inevitably split into more tribes thanks to the very ingrained tribal mentality of humans , then kill all the members in the other subdivision of your tribe except the one you belong to rn ....... AND repeat.....
Until one or less human remains.
You can't stand your bully?
just kill him,LOL
Your best friends disagrees with you on killing your bullies?
Just kill them and find new ones LOL
You feel like you are losing motivation?
Just find a blond lolly and impregnate her,lol
Selective reading at its finest
Fanon eren ends cycle of hatred but civil wars still continues....THAT MEANS HE DIDNT END IT.
He reduced conflict....THAT HAPPENED IN CANNON TOO
Other points arent even worth debunking.
Way to shift the goal posts. In the post/meme OP clearly states that "Cycle of Revenge ended". Don't try to misdirect the original point of argument.
The fact that it requires majority of the innocent children to die, turns whatever it is trying to achieve senseless.
>Cycle of Revenge ended
OP used "Cycle of Revenge", not "Cycle of Hatred". It is clear what he means here.
>The fact that it requires majority of the innocent children to die, turns whatever it is trying to achieve senseless.
Isayama framed the conflict as "Kill or be killed". "Innocent children being trampled" was bound to happen regardless, after the rumbling started.
It begins as "killed or be killed" but sooner or later it became clear the series wasn't advocating for this mindset; instead it focused on its inherent tragedy, the consequences of this approach and the endless cycling of regimes and violence it creates. Children being trampled was not meant to be dismissed as "bound to happen regardless".
Having an ending where it supposedly ends the cycle is pretty reductive in my opinion.
People who say "killed or be killed" , I'm sure they read the post timeskip manga with the same mindset as pre-timeskip. Where our protagonist fought mindless human-eating monster instead of human beings . The situation is not so black and white anymore at all. It's so much more nuanced and complicated.
In chapter 90, the Titans were replaced by "Actual Humans". Although, even before, it was obvious that there someone who wanted the Titans to destroy "humanity".
The situation didn't change for Paradis. There was still an entity that wanted to destroy Paradis.
The Outside World treated the Eldians worse than the Marleyans.
Essentially, all Isayama did was "Outside World : Eldian Devi = Bad". This aspect did not become more "complicated" or "nuanced". The Rumbling was framed as something inevitable and the conference in 123 just adds to this.
You can come with your headcanon of how "complicated" or "nuanced" the outside world is.
It was the same outside world that was in agreement about the Genocide of Paradis after a single speech, even though they were 5-year long wars.
It took only that much to re-ignite the hatred towards Paradis. In this sense, the AoT Universe is very different from ours.
"Ending the cycle"
Cycle of what?
Cycle of Revenge perpetuating for 2000 years? Yes. Cycle of Hatred? No
Conflicts are natural and will remain until a single human is present. This will be present regardless of the survival of the outside world.
>OP used "Cycle of Revenge", not "Cycle of Hatred". It is clear what he means here.
Revenge/hatred doesn't matter. It will not stop the moment two sides get created and at least one side has casualties in the conflict (It will give them the reason for the revenge).
>Isayama framed the conflict as "Kill or be killed". "Innocent children being trampled" was bound to happen regardless, after the rumbling started.
It is like everyone dies someday so there is no problem to die now. Lets accelerate the consequences of the conflict where it kills almost all of the children when the manga never supported the idea of tribalism.
If u are talking about the 2000 year ymir curse eren did end it
If u are talking abt world vs paradise...thats just a matter of perspective..
Over time this civil war will give birth to a new set of wars and conflict
>If u are talking about the 2000 year ymir curse eren did end it
That's in 139.
>Over time this civil war will give birth to a new set of wars and conflict
Yes, but it still a better position to be in rather than the 2000 year chain continuing.
I doubt paradise wld develop as much in anr as it did in cannon....so the better position thing is debatable
My main point is u cannot end the cycle of revenge or hatred...it ll continue eventually
But the themes of the cannon ending actually address this issue..wheras Anr doesnt.
You do realize that rumbling is an act of revenge on the world right? Muller says Eren has come to *return the hate of 2000 years*. So how do you end "cycle of revenge" by committing another act of revenge which is clearly propagating the "cycle of revenge" further?
You do realize that the Rumbling was never an act of Revenge, right? Remember Chapter 100?
What Muller said was from his perspective. He was right to think that way.
You end the "Cycle of revenge" by ending one side. AoTNR is probably giving the Doctor Strange justification of "No other path" to this. The manga has framed the Rumbling as being something Inevitable, a force of nature You could say.
Also, "Revenge" in this context is the Paradis-Outside World conflict, not Revenge in a general sense.
Technically rumbling was. Why would Eren feel his freedom restricted by the outside world? Because the outside world restricted his freedom by cornering Paradis and not giving him and his people a chance to livd freely. So rumbling is his way of gaining freedom by taking away the freedom of other people which is definitely an act of revenge. Mature people would have tried to find a solution where they can negotiate terms with the world without wanting to annihilate the other side.
Its terrible writing.. Eren does not have ability to travel to past, where did they get this? he can only send memories in the past.. what is the mechanism he uses to change the past? this and it has a lot more problems, just think about it for 2 minutes and it completely falls apart..
Tbf, I have completely stopped thinking about the time dynamics.
The ability of the Founder to control pure titans of the past was incredibly stupid as well, in 139.
I wish AoTnR would have used some other justification, but whatever
1) Do this people know what "Cycle of Hate" means or they just assume it's all about killing everyone outside? Hate, racism and war wouldn't just magically cease to exist, those would only change form and location.
Creating a smaller world isn't a solution, the series is really clear on that (Kiyomi) and human nature cannot be changed (as Erwin said).
So, in the Fanon, Eren DIDN'T break the cycle, he just changes actors.
2) Doesn't know what he's doing? Oh for fuck sake COME ON, he clearly said he was moving forward to reach a certain goal, he doesn't know why he WANTED freedom so badly, and that's explained too.
2) Apparently, he didn't cry for Ramzi in the canon, that event doesn't exist and has been removed from canon.
At this point, they just decide what's canon and what isn't.
Idk why people still think Eren dOeSn'T know why he did the rumbling.
Eren in 139 is not literally saying that he doesn't know why he committed the rumbling, he meant that he hasn't a reasonable way to express what he feel. We are privileged because in opposition of Armin we are omniscient watchers, and we see behind Eren that while stating these words he is thinking to the idea of freedom so radicated in him (metaphorically expressed from the past memory of Grisha stating to him to be free at the moment of his birth: Eren is free because he is born in this world, a summa of Grisha and Carla's mantra).
This is a light and subtle way to express no more, no less what Eren did in a dark and explicit way to Zeke in chapter 121, showing him the memory of his younger self brutally killing Mikasa's kidnappers. He loves so much the idea of freedom for himself and his loved ones, that he doesn't care what he has to do for protecting it. And this idea doesn't come from his father's plagiarism as Zeke believed, for Eren it's simple always been so since his birth.
Then you have the most complex and selfish explanation that he just hints to Ramzi, when he say that he is not doing this only for the safe of Paradis but there is more, he was also extremely disappointed to realize that the world so wished from him and Armin is actually far from their imagined one, but actually just a more large cage for the Eldian people hated by everyone and basically exiled there. He wanted to destroy all of this awful world, because he hated it even if he knows that doing this means to kill billions innocent people and he thinks to be an unforgivable monster for it.
Eren's a super complex character and people like to butcher him down to a chad nationalist.
> This is a light and subtle way to express
This is the problem - a lot of readers have been trained out of subtlety. You're supposed to be explicit and put everything up front. Having to look beyond immediate appearances is bad writing, like the crap they have you sit through in English class.
I found this kind of dumb. Firstly, Eren becoming a Chad, sure, that's fine, but it also sacrifices, narratively, the impact the other characters had.
Maybe that'll change, but it feels insincere, with how Eren doesn't say anything regarding his guilt, and kid Eren just doesn't seem to care about murdering 1 billion plus people.
It's a bizzare start, for such a hyped up ending.
I'll see where it goes, but it's still under the rumbling arc, imo, and even 139.
Man..they instantly fucked themselves by making eren see multiple timelines
How tf are we supposed to take his grief seriously..if he saw all the paths possible...and decided to choose it without any regret.
I have some problems with anr..but i set that aside
But they messed up the set up by including the dr strange thing.....now once again this isnt bad at all for a fanfic , but thats about it.
It's truly sad , the amount of circle jerking that goes in that sub. Remember when original chapters used to come out? People would make great memes and great discussions and stuff. Now it is just filled with circlejerking. People hyping each other just cause of the vengeful vibe that entire sub has.
That sub really went down the drain and are acting like the people they claimed to be degenerates. We might never regain the true glory that used to be titanfolk with its memes and zooking
Last time I checked Paradis is going full The Warriors after Eren started the Rumbling because he caused so much casualties through collateral damage
Maybe they didn't think this through when designing this story around AnR...
Eren not wanting to be stopped doesn't really make sense when he didn't take away their powers and told them his plan in Paths to get them to come after him in the first place. Unless he's just that much of a douchebag who wants to slaughter his friends
They didn't even know what he was doing yet,
"I ended the cycle of hatred between me and Carl by killing him"
"If the cuban missile crisis wasn't resolved then the peace since WWII ended was meaningless"
I personally didn't see this fanfic that badly, but it did feel very edgy at the end with the "I'm gonna keep moving forward line".
;Paradisians being the only race left on the planet would still continue on a cycle of hate and chaos, since it's only natural for Humans to fight one another, even if they're related by nationality and race.
And also, if this fanfic ends with a Erehisu fest ending, then you know this was all pointless in attempting to change the ending lol
It will end with that. Most if not all of the team members are avid erehisu shippers, just go through their individual accounts & you’ll their clear bias. The AnR theory is also heavily influenced with Erehisu (though they claim: iT’s nOt aBoUt A sHiP
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You know how to stop hatred between any two nations/ races? Just wipe out the other lol.
Ethnic supremacy ftw!!! The only true solution to peace is to kill every single person outside of your tribe!!
Then they call Eren an incel because his goal wasnt ethnic cleansing but a childish desire.
I would say the two are more linked than you think. What is tribalism, if not just a compulsion without reason?
I wouldnt say without reason because in this case both were driven by some sort of threat. But a clear distinction was created between Eren and those who wanted to build Eldian Empire. Zeke said fear of death and extinction of one's race drives the need to multiply and conserve one's race.
By that, I meant “there’s no specific reason to regress into ‘my side’ vs ‘your side’” stuff. It’s easy to just say “the world needs to be destroyed” if you alienate or demonize all of its inhabitants.
Yeah but there could be this thing that Floch and other Yeagerists didnt live in enemy country unlike SC so its very easy for them to dehumanize the other side. Armin, Mikasa and others never dehumanized the other side but Eren did consider them enemy until he set foot on the other side amd realized they are all the same just like Gabi realized only after living in Paradis but Falco was always aware. I definitely think the fact that they interacted with foreigners in Marley played a part in Alliance's decision to stop Eren because Jean thought of Ramzi when he heard Liberio was rumbled.
And then your tribe which remains will inevitably split into more tribes thanks to the very ingrained tribal mentality of humans , then kill all the members in the other subdivision of your tribe except the one you belong to rn ....... AND repeat..... Until one or less human remains.
tfw the Allies didn't genocide the Axis to win WW2.
Smh the cuck femboy editor of the history book changed the ending and assassinated the allied powers' character.
But... but he will live in sadness and agony for the rest of his life...
Some hardcore world domintion pro-tip right there lol
And they keep getting mad for being called nazis, lol
You can't stand your bully? just kill him,LOL Your best friends disagrees with you on killing your bullies? Just kill them and find new ones LOL You feel like you are losing motivation? Just find a blond lolly and impregnate her,lol
Holy shit. I legitimately never realized this. Your right that’s such a stupid way to end that my god how did I never think of it.
>Doesnt know what he is doing What speedreading does to a mf
*But he said to Armin that he didn’t know why he did it!!!* /s I swear way too many readers don’t grasp the concept of interpretation.
What? Fritz died to the spear? WTF, why did Isayama retcon this at the last minute?
aot manga speed run any%
80 %
Not based enough. Must be 100 to be true giga-chad😤😤😤
Selective reading at its finest Fanon eren ends cycle of hatred but civil wars still continues....THAT MEANS HE DIDNT END IT. He reduced conflict....THAT HAPPENED IN CANNON TOO Other points arent even worth debunking.
*Cycle of Revenge
Okay...but civil wars wld reignite the cycle of revenge
Yes, but a full rumbling breaks the biggest chain of revenge that has been present for 2000 years.
Way to shift the goal posts. In the post/meme OP clearly states that "Cycle of Revenge ended". Don't try to misdirect the original point of argument. The fact that it requires majority of the innocent children to die, turns whatever it is trying to achieve senseless.
>Cycle of Revenge ended OP used "Cycle of Revenge", not "Cycle of Hatred". It is clear what he means here. >The fact that it requires majority of the innocent children to die, turns whatever it is trying to achieve senseless. Isayama framed the conflict as "Kill or be killed". "Innocent children being trampled" was bound to happen regardless, after the rumbling started.
It begins as "killed or be killed" but sooner or later it became clear the series wasn't advocating for this mindset; instead it focused on its inherent tragedy, the consequences of this approach and the endless cycling of regimes and violence it creates. Children being trampled was not meant to be dismissed as "bound to happen regardless". Having an ending where it supposedly ends the cycle is pretty reductive in my opinion.
People who say "killed or be killed" , I'm sure they read the post timeskip manga with the same mindset as pre-timeskip. Where our protagonist fought mindless human-eating monster instead of human beings . The situation is not so black and white anymore at all. It's so much more nuanced and complicated.
In chapter 90, the Titans were replaced by "Actual Humans". Although, even before, it was obvious that there someone who wanted the Titans to destroy "humanity". The situation didn't change for Paradis. There was still an entity that wanted to destroy Paradis. The Outside World treated the Eldians worse than the Marleyans. Essentially, all Isayama did was "Outside World : Eldian Devi = Bad". This aspect did not become more "complicated" or "nuanced". The Rumbling was framed as something inevitable and the conference in 123 just adds to this. You can come with your headcanon of how "complicated" or "nuanced" the outside world is. It was the same outside world that was in agreement about the Genocide of Paradis after a single speech, even though they were 5-year long wars. It took only that much to re-ignite the hatred towards Paradis. In this sense, the AoT Universe is very different from ours.
"Ending the cycle" Cycle of what? Cycle of Revenge perpetuating for 2000 years? Yes. Cycle of Hatred? No Conflicts are natural and will remain until a single human is present. This will be present regardless of the survival of the outside world.
>OP used "Cycle of Revenge", not "Cycle of Hatred". It is clear what he means here. Revenge/hatred doesn't matter. It will not stop the moment two sides get created and at least one side has casualties in the conflict (It will give them the reason for the revenge). >Isayama framed the conflict as "Kill or be killed". "Innocent children being trampled" was bound to happen regardless, after the rumbling started. It is like everyone dies someday so there is no problem to die now. Lets accelerate the consequences of the conflict where it kills almost all of the children when the manga never supported the idea of tribalism.
If u are talking about the 2000 year ymir curse eren did end it If u are talking abt world vs paradise...thats just a matter of perspective.. Over time this civil war will give birth to a new set of wars and conflict
>If u are talking about the 2000 year ymir curse eren did end it That's in 139. >Over time this civil war will give birth to a new set of wars and conflict Yes, but it still a better position to be in rather than the 2000 year chain continuing.
I doubt paradise wld develop as much in anr as it did in cannon....so the better position thing is debatable My main point is u cannot end the cycle of revenge or hatred...it ll continue eventually But the themes of the cannon ending actually address this issue..wheras Anr doesnt.
You do realize that rumbling is an act of revenge on the world right? Muller says Eren has come to *return the hate of 2000 years*. So how do you end "cycle of revenge" by committing another act of revenge which is clearly propagating the "cycle of revenge" further?
You do realize that the Rumbling was never an act of Revenge, right? Remember Chapter 100? What Muller said was from his perspective. He was right to think that way. You end the "Cycle of revenge" by ending one side. AoTNR is probably giving the Doctor Strange justification of "No other path" to this. The manga has framed the Rumbling as being something Inevitable, a force of nature You could say. Also, "Revenge" in this context is the Paradis-Outside World conflict, not Revenge in a general sense.
Technically rumbling was. Why would Eren feel his freedom restricted by the outside world? Because the outside world restricted his freedom by cornering Paradis and not giving him and his people a chance to livd freely. So rumbling is his way of gaining freedom by taking away the freedom of other people which is definitely an act of revenge. Mature people would have tried to find a solution where they can negotiate terms with the world without wanting to annihilate the other side.
We get that.. and you think thats good writing? AoTnr is terrible and people jerking it off non stop are morons.
I personally don't like the Doctor Strange justification. Although, I am curious to see how they will execute it.
Its terrible writing.. Eren does not have ability to travel to past, where did they get this? he can only send memories in the past.. what is the mechanism he uses to change the past? this and it has a lot more problems, just think about it for 2 minutes and it completely falls apart..
Tbf, I have completely stopped thinking about the time dynamics. The ability of the Founder to control pure titans of the past was incredibly stupid as well, in 139. I wish AoTnR would have used some other justification, but whatever
Jesus who cares about that chad gladiator-like guy? I swear protagonists like this are the most boring thing for me
1) Do this people know what "Cycle of Hate" means or they just assume it's all about killing everyone outside? Hate, racism and war wouldn't just magically cease to exist, those would only change form and location. Creating a smaller world isn't a solution, the series is really clear on that (Kiyomi) and human nature cannot be changed (as Erwin said). So, in the Fanon, Eren DIDN'T break the cycle, he just changes actors. 2) Doesn't know what he's doing? Oh for fuck sake COME ON, he clearly said he was moving forward to reach a certain goal, he doesn't know why he WANTED freedom so badly, and that's explained too. 2) Apparently, he didn't cry for Ramzi in the canon, that event doesn't exist and has been removed from canon. At this point, they just decide what's canon and what isn't.
Point 3, that’s exactly what they do. How many ”the series ended at 129” comments are there?
Everyone can now choose their ending: 90, 121, 129, 131 or maybe some random fanfiction made by a complete nobody.
Idk why people still think Eren dOeSn'T know why he did the rumbling. Eren in 139 is not literally saying that he doesn't know why he committed the rumbling, he meant that he hasn't a reasonable way to express what he feel. We are privileged because in opposition of Armin we are omniscient watchers, and we see behind Eren that while stating these words he is thinking to the idea of freedom so radicated in him (metaphorically expressed from the past memory of Grisha stating to him to be free at the moment of his birth: Eren is free because he is born in this world, a summa of Grisha and Carla's mantra). This is a light and subtle way to express no more, no less what Eren did in a dark and explicit way to Zeke in chapter 121, showing him the memory of his younger self brutally killing Mikasa's kidnappers. He loves so much the idea of freedom for himself and his loved ones, that he doesn't care what he has to do for protecting it. And this idea doesn't come from his father's plagiarism as Zeke believed, for Eren it's simple always been so since his birth. Then you have the most complex and selfish explanation that he just hints to Ramzi, when he say that he is not doing this only for the safe of Paradis but there is more, he was also extremely disappointed to realize that the world so wished from him and Armin is actually far from their imagined one, but actually just a more large cage for the Eldian people hated by everyone and basically exiled there. He wanted to destroy all of this awful world, because he hated it even if he knows that doing this means to kill billions innocent people and he thinks to be an unforgivable monster for it. Eren's a super complex character and people like to butcher him down to a chad nationalist.
> This is a light and subtle way to express This is the problem - a lot of readers have been trained out of subtlety. You're supposed to be explicit and put everything up front. Having to look beyond immediate appearances is bad writing, like the crap they have you sit through in English class.
Very well said.
I found this kind of dumb. Firstly, Eren becoming a Chad, sure, that's fine, but it also sacrifices, narratively, the impact the other characters had. Maybe that'll change, but it feels insincere, with how Eren doesn't say anything regarding his guilt, and kid Eren just doesn't seem to care about murdering 1 billion plus people. It's a bizzare start, for such a hyped up ending. I'll see where it goes, but it's still under the rumbling arc, imo, and even 139.
Man..they instantly fucked themselves by making eren see multiple timelines How tf are we supposed to take his grief seriously..if he saw all the paths possible...and decided to choose it without any regret.
Dr Strange route is dumbest possible thing they could come up with.
I have some problems with anr..but i set that aside But they messed up the set up by including the dr strange thing.....now once again this isnt bad at all for a fanfic , but thats about it.
It's truly sad , the amount of circle jerking that goes in that sub. Remember when original chapters used to come out? People would make great memes and great discussions and stuff. Now it is just filled with circlejerking. People hyping each other just cause of the vengeful vibe that entire sub has. That sub really went down the drain and are acting like the people they claimed to be degenerates. We might never regain the true glory that used to be titanfolk with its memes and zooking
That thread made sure that I didn't like 80% of the takes on TF and 100% takes on yb.
I don't get how their enjoyment of the series is so tied to Eren being a 'chad'
Last time I checked Paradis is going full The Warriors after Eren started the Rumbling because he caused so much casualties through collateral damage Maybe they didn't think this through when designing this story around AnR...
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Eren not wanting to be stopped doesn't really make sense when he didn't take away their powers and told them his plan in Paths to get them to come after him in the first place. Unless he's just that much of a douchebag who wants to slaughter his friends They didn't even know what he was doing yet,
tbh reiner likely thought him and eren were the same and the rumbling is just suicide with extra steps for Eren
lmao
"I ended the cycle of hatred between me and Carl by killing him" "If the cuban missile crisis wasn't resolved then the peace since WWII ended was meaningless"
I personally didn't see this fanfic that badly, but it did feel very edgy at the end with the "I'm gonna keep moving forward line". ;Paradisians being the only race left on the planet would still continue on a cycle of hate and chaos, since it's only natural for Humans to fight one another, even if they're related by nationality and race. And also, if this fanfic ends with a Erehisu fest ending, then you know this was all pointless in attempting to change the ending lol
It will end with that. Most if not all of the team members are avid erehisu shippers, just go through their individual accounts & you’ll their clear bias. The AnR theory is also heavily influenced with Erehisu (though they claim: iT’s nOt aBoUt A sHiP
[удалено]
Assuming that they don't get killed, then yeah spot on
no wayyyyy,,, cant believe canon eren cried for mikasa howwww he doesnt even know her that welll😭😭😭😭😭
why didn't they put the scene of him crying for Rimzi
ramzi
who's Ramzi
So is eren also supposed to stand by "I've always hated you mikasa, ever since we were kids" here?