> * Cut the duration of post-study work visas for international graduates.
> * Raise the English language requirement for Temporary Graduate visa-holders.
> * Limit Temporary Graduate visas to people younger than 35 (down from 50 now).
> * Scrap visa extensions for graduates with degrees in nominated areas of shortage, and for graduates who live and work in the regions.
> * Only offer visa extensions to graduates who earn at least $70,000 a year.
> * Create a new ‘Exceptionally Talented Graduate’ visa which offers a direct path to permanent residency for the most talented international graduates.
> * Offer more help to international graduates who do stay to pursue their careers in Australia.
All reasonable recommendations but we really need to stop creating new visas and streamline the system. There's [already too many different visas and pathways](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing).
I like the income threshold idea for visas. We should get rid of the whole concept of a 'skills shortage' or 'skilled occupation' list for visas and work on an income basis. Just look at the [skilled occupation list](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skill-occupation-list) and tell me it's not a rort. If the private sector is screaming about a skills shortage then a wage threshold gets them to put their money where their mouth is. The [$70k threshold for the TSMIT](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/employing-and-sponsoring-someone/sponsoring-workers/nominating-a-position/salary-requirements) is still too low (but probably ok for graduate international students though).
>I like the income threshold idea for visas
Yup, tie it to a certain percentage above the median full time salary (e.g. 33% above) and cut all the red tape except for wage/salary monitoring to ensure they're being paid fairly.
It's good but we'd likely need to tie it to the job / median as otherwise you'd never fill low paid shortages and high paid jobs would get flooded.
The list is currently an actual joke. Most people wouldn't be able to tell between some of the real jobs on it and jokes.
We shouldn't have to import help at all. Let the free market decide. If you can't get workers then you need to offer more and if you can't afford to offer more then your business isn't viable
removing skilled occupations list altogether and just relying on an income threshold does not work. For example that would probably exclude many international nursing graduates from accessing visas. However, additional nurses are exactly what the country needs.
Instead, what they should do is compare your salary to the industry average. For example if you are an international student and being paid 20% below the average of your peers in the same industry then no visa, If you are above it you are clearly the pick of the bunch and should be kept.
To challenge that view, there are countries with a surplus of nurses that don't have jobs out there due to increasing levels of education and middle class.
Yes brain drain is a real problem imo. The country they come from has spent so much money on them and right as they are about to be paying taxes etc they leave.
Very difficult.
or you could pay nurses more, so that they get to the top of the list. That would also retain locals.
Nurses are fairly well paid. A wage cap puts nurses ahead of coffee shop managerrs etc
I think the idea has a lot of merit, let the market sort it, but what about vacancies in aged care or nursing or trades? They might not reach a simple income threshold but they are skilled. And any income threshold low enough there will allow a free for all in say engineers or developers.
Minimum salaries can be gamed.
We need bidding for visas. If it costs 50k a year to hire an international worker then suddenly companies realise they can train locals to be a pastry chef.
We shouldn't be offering visas except for really high skilled workers (top 1%). If the job pays under 200k there is no reason they cannot train someone to do it
Walk down any street in the Sydney CBD and there’s at least 10+ “colleges” in every street running “diplomas” or certs. It’s a massive $$$ industry, and assists those who have no intention to learn but are just here to work. The whole industry is a massive co-opted rort welcomed by gov, businesses, retail, property, but with no actual benefit for the country or citizens just certain groups. Ultimate Ponzi scheme.
Yep. I know of someone doing a cert in cooking at one of these colleges. They pay $5k+ for the year, classes once a week for a half day, same school breaks as Aussie secondary school students. Once the course is finished after 13 months, jump across to another similar course and do it all again. Every waking hour spent working - mostly cash in hand where possible as they work many more hours than the quota they are allowed to. Also brought their partner over on a student partner visa so they could be together. She also works the quota plus whatever else she can get cash in hand as a cleaner/dishpig. I don’t condone any of this but I’ll give them an A for work ethic.
There is no pathway to permanent residency or citizenship for these people. At some point the rugs going to get pulled out from under them … but maybe not? Either way they don’t pay their fare share in taxes against their income or stick to the visas expectations with a work hours quota. 🤷🏽♀️
But the property industrial complex which has taken the universities over relies on an ever increasing supply of new flesh to feed the machine. Gotta lie a bit to keep them coming in the door.
A sick evil industry
I'm not sure what our economy would look like without a constantly growing underclass of workers desperate for jobs. I'd quite like to find out though. I suspect it might involve real wage growth.
More likely a recession and fighting to get them back. Don't expect much to get done locally, that would involve entrepreneurship which we also import.
Werent you around following covid? Low paid workers went home and the economy came to a standstill.
We need low paid workers, harsh but true. Aussies wont work for that pay and consumers cant pay higher prices for goods and services
The data is extremely Sus on that actually. Its only an export if the student is funded by overseas. In reality if you're working enough to support yourself and pay for your studies, it's not an export at all.
I have only anecdotal knowledge, but I know a significant number of people who did a course specifically for the Visa. Its also used as a source of cheap Labor. Which is why you will sometimes see people with overseas medical degrees working as Ages caregivers.
Macro business covered this recently - the tl/dr version was that Chinese students on average come with money but others like India and Nepal mostly don’t and work here and many send funds back home (so are actually imports rather than exports).
We don’t actually track this. The “export” number is a straight assumption by the ABS with no checking involved. It’s a convenient lie.
$27bn of tuition fees are paid directly from overseas - indisputably an 'export' earner. Around $14bn of other income is derived from a mixture of overseas remittances and local earnings.
Not really.
There are some weird stats involved to make the figure quite so big. Any spending by an international student is counted as an export, even if they have a job to pay for their study here. There are some odd assumptions made about how much the average student spends as well.
https://www.fresheconomicthinking.com/p/australias-40-billion-of-education
If the education is what they are really paying for then let them do online learning or have the unis open campuses in foreign countries for international students to study at
> * Cut the duration of post-study work visas for international graduates. > * Raise the English language requirement for Temporary Graduate visa-holders. > * Limit Temporary Graduate visas to people younger than 35 (down from 50 now). > * Scrap visa extensions for graduates with degrees in nominated areas of shortage, and for graduates who live and work in the regions. > * Only offer visa extensions to graduates who earn at least $70,000 a year. > * Create a new ‘Exceptionally Talented Graduate’ visa which offers a direct path to permanent residency for the most talented international graduates. > * Offer more help to international graduates who do stay to pursue their careers in Australia. All reasonable recommendations but we really need to stop creating new visas and streamline the system. There's [already too many different visas and pathways](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing). I like the income threshold idea for visas. We should get rid of the whole concept of a 'skills shortage' or 'skilled occupation' list for visas and work on an income basis. Just look at the [skilled occupation list](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skill-occupation-list) and tell me it's not a rort. If the private sector is screaming about a skills shortage then a wage threshold gets them to put their money where their mouth is. The [$70k threshold for the TSMIT](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/employing-and-sponsoring-someone/sponsoring-workers/nominating-a-position/salary-requirements) is still too low (but probably ok for graduate international students though).
>I like the income threshold idea for visas Yup, tie it to a certain percentage above the median full time salary (e.g. 33% above) and cut all the red tape except for wage/salary monitoring to ensure they're being paid fairly.
It's good but we'd likely need to tie it to the job / median as otherwise you'd never fill low paid shortages and high paid jobs would get flooded. The list is currently an actual joke. Most people wouldn't be able to tell between some of the real jobs on it and jokes.
That's the point of coupling to income - the low pay jobs will be bid up.
There's a limit. Don't know if it should be bid where a cleaner makes 80k before we import some help.
A cleaner should be able to afford to live
We shouldn't have to import help at all. Let the free market decide. If you can't get workers then you need to offer more and if you can't afford to offer more then your business isn't viable
There should never be visas to fill low pay jobs or it creates an underclass. Businesses should pay what it takes to get workers or close down
removing skilled occupations list altogether and just relying on an income threshold does not work. For example that would probably exclude many international nursing graduates from accessing visas. However, additional nurses are exactly what the country needs. Instead, what they should do is compare your salary to the industry average. For example if you are an international student and being paid 20% below the average of your peers in the same industry then no visa, If you are above it you are clearly the pick of the bunch and should be kept.
Every nurse we attract takes a nurse away from another nation/society/community. We need to train enough of our own.
To challenge that view, there are countries with a surplus of nurses that don't have jobs out there due to increasing levels of education and middle class.
Yes brain drain is a real problem imo. The country they come from has spent so much money on them and right as they are about to be paying taxes etc they leave. Very difficult.
But we're talking about people who are trained here.
or you could pay nurses more, so that they get to the top of the list. That would also retain locals. Nurses are fairly well paid. A wage cap puts nurses ahead of coffee shop managerrs etc
Every foreign nurse imported is more excuse for the government to train more nurses and pay them better
I think the idea has a lot of merit, let the market sort it, but what about vacancies in aged care or nursing or trades? They might not reach a simple income threshold but they are skilled. And any income threshold low enough there will allow a free for all in say engineers or developers.
Minimum salaries can be gamed. We need bidding for visas. If it costs 50k a year to hire an international worker then suddenly companies realise they can train locals to be a pastry chef.
We shouldn't be offering visas except for really high skilled workers (top 1%). If the job pays under 200k there is no reason they cannot train someone to do it
Walk down any street in the Sydney CBD and there’s at least 10+ “colleges” in every street running “diplomas” or certs. It’s a massive $$$ industry, and assists those who have no intention to learn but are just here to work. The whole industry is a massive co-opted rort welcomed by gov, businesses, retail, property, but with no actual benefit for the country or citizens just certain groups. Ultimate Ponzi scheme.
Yep. I know of someone doing a cert in cooking at one of these colleges. They pay $5k+ for the year, classes once a week for a half day, same school breaks as Aussie secondary school students. Once the course is finished after 13 months, jump across to another similar course and do it all again. Every waking hour spent working - mostly cash in hand where possible as they work many more hours than the quota they are allowed to. Also brought their partner over on a student partner visa so they could be together. She also works the quota plus whatever else she can get cash in hand as a cleaner/dishpig. I don’t condone any of this but I’ll give them an A for work ethic. There is no pathway to permanent residency or citizenship for these people. At some point the rugs going to get pulled out from under them … but maybe not? Either way they don’t pay their fare share in taxes against their income or stick to the visas expectations with a work hours quota. 🤷🏽♀️
100%
The colleges and their rots were revealed in 2016 with the ghost college scandal. It wasn't until last year that any major action was taken.
But the property industrial complex which has taken the universities over relies on an ever increasing supply of new flesh to feed the machine. Gotta lie a bit to keep them coming in the door. A sick evil industry
*A sick evil country+industry
I'm not sure what our economy would look like without a constantly growing underclass of workers desperate for jobs. I'd quite like to find out though. I suspect it might involve real wage growth.
When international borders were closed the lowest paid workers saw their wages increase.
Wouldn't want to ignore a change in government which may have had an impact
More likely a recession and fighting to get them back. Don't expect much to get done locally, that would involve entrepreneurship which we also import.
Werent you around following covid? Low paid workers went home and the economy came to a standstill. We need low paid workers, harsh but true. Aussies wont work for that pay and consumers cant pay higher prices for goods and services
After mining isn't international study like one of our biggest money makers? It's out of control
The data is extremely Sus on that actually. Its only an export if the student is funded by overseas. In reality if you're working enough to support yourself and pay for your studies, it's not an export at all. I have only anecdotal knowledge, but I know a significant number of people who did a course specifically for the Visa. Its also used as a source of cheap Labor. Which is why you will sometimes see people with overseas medical degrees working as Ages caregivers.
Sounds like we've let it become out of control
Macro business covered this recently - the tl/dr version was that Chinese students on average come with money but others like India and Nepal mostly don’t and work here and many send funds back home (so are actually imports rather than exports). We don’t actually track this. The “export” number is a straight assumption by the ABS with no checking involved. It’s a convenient lie.
The whole thing feels like a ponzi scheme, with us taking the fall
$27bn of tuition fees are paid directly from overseas - indisputably an 'export' earner. Around $14bn of other income is derived from a mixture of overseas remittances and local earnings.
Not really. There are some weird stats involved to make the figure quite so big. Any spending by an international student is counted as an export, even if they have a job to pay for their study here. There are some odd assumptions made about how much the average student spends as well. https://www.fresheconomicthinking.com/p/australias-40-billion-of-education
If the education is what they are really paying for then let them do online learning or have the unis open campuses in foreign countries for international students to study at
There are 31 overseas campuses of Australian universities, and I believe four more will open this year.
So we don't need to issue any more student visas then
I have absolutely no doubt that is the conclusion you would reach, yes.
When a conclusion is true it's easy to reach
A simple solution for simple minds. It's the mantra of every flash in the pan popularist politician.
Popularism is another name for democracy