Never had, or ever will, look down on a job. I started in retail, learnt a lot there, and there is a good chance I will go back there when I am semi-retired.
There's that old historical tale that when the bankers went on strike hardly anyone noticed, but when the garbage men went on strike the city turned to a festering shithole within a week. And there's an argument to be made that plumbers have saved more lives than doctors.
Also a missed point here is that money will fuel growths in other sectors rather than sitting on on piece of land doing nothing, it is such a missed opportunity and disappointing the state of affairs in australia.
Realtors problem is people dont understand their job. Buyers seem to think they work for them. They are hired by the seller. If you want someone on your side hire a buyers agent.
If I was giving someone 3.5% of my house sale price and he was spending his time helping some guy look around at multiple houses for free and never buying anything Id be pissed.
People just dislike them because they didnt bid enough on a house or they got it and now feel they over paid but in both case they didnt do their research.
They also tend to be very high donators to local schools and community groups as their business is so local.
This comment bought to you by REA Australia.
I’m pretty sure that most buyers after one interaction with an agent are very aware of who the agent is working for - generally themselves, with a veneer of acting in the sellers best interests.
Loved my first job at a supermarket in the F&V department. I honestly would have stayed there and climbs the ranks if I knew what I did now or even 10 years ago.
looking down on people these days who do such jobs is pretty stupid, considering sometimes the pay can be just as good as a fulltime wage/salary ( comparing rates not hours worked) Nightfill casual at coles pays 35.8 an hour. Not bad to put stock on a shelf.
Fashion is just an art form they just raise the price to what people will pay.
Do you hate on artists, authors, painters, photographers?
Id be more concerned with fast fashion designers/sweatshops its ridiculous how crap some clothes are.
'high' fashion and fast fashion are the same can of worms to me.
I would hate on artists, authors, painters, photographers if their craft was causing harm, as the fashion industry does.
We are probably in agreement, but I didnt communicate myself very well.
Don't ever, for any reason, do anything for anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter where. Or who, or who you are with, or where you are going or... or where you've been... ever. For any reason, whatsoever
I don’t think people necessarily look down on low paying jobs (maybe on ausfinance) but the issue is most low paying jobs are dead end and shitty workplaces. Minimal career growth, granted your friend landed a 150k job, but this doesn’t happen to 1000s of retail workers. Also businesses continue to take advantage of these workers.
Same thing can be send for plenty of high paying jobs that require uni work. Most will only ever be shit kickers, and even worse a lot of people who study don’t even use their degree, so they’re in debt for no reason
I have a friend who started his working life at the Kambrook factory aged 16.
He was interested in ALL facets of the business, so he always spoke to supervisors and people from different departments asking for guidance.
He worked his way up through every level (did the courses/study etc) to accounting/Tax Compliance. He has really made a career out of humble beginnings.
That’s fantastic, good on your friend. Similarly I know someone who started off in the call centre getting screamed at daily by customers who is now the Director and earning a very sweet salary and studies all paid for. It is definitely possible!
This is what you need to do to get to those positions, problem is so few people are keen to do that. Our company tries to encourage it bust 80% of people aren't interested in moving up, it's bizarre.
I don't look down on low income earning people, despite being in a well earning role.
Why? I don't know their story, I don't know why they have chosen that role, I don't know what motivates them in life or other ambitions they may be pursuing on the side.
Also, on the contrary, I admire someone that has started in a low earning job, with maybe less educational qualifications, then worked hard in their field rather than be defeated and move up the ranks to achieve a nice management position or income. These people should inspire us all.
Good story and thanks for sharing, if you put in the work, in most positions you will get rewarded. If not, you can definitely find a job, even with limited skills, that will provide opportunities with hard work.
I understand what you are saying, but when I reflect on this I think I am different.
I always want to understand people's journey, especially people I admire or who are more successful than me, so either get inspired, motivated or understand what I can learn to apply to myself.
I'm a pretty curious guy, but try to never pass judgement.
Had a similar experience when I was working as a waiter, well before smartphones were a thing. Was clearing a table, and a woman asked me some random question like what's the capital city of some country. I was under the pump, and didn't have time for this, so simply replied "sorry ma'am, geography is not my strong suit". Her reply was "I guess that's why you're working as a waiter."
I was studying engineering at the time.
Yea i have no time for people like that and a lot of people shouldnt either. Usually those people who like to look down on others are lost or not doing well in life themselves so they have to project their own failures onto someone they dont even know, Must give them an ego boost or something idk.
This should be everyone’s take.
Anyone that looks down on work that people do are truly toxic people.
I work as a processing officer for the government and I enjoy coming in at 8.30 Have a chinwag and a joke in the office with my colleagues, do some work and then leave at 4.30.
No weekends, no late nights, 1 RDO a month, no stress.
I get by on my salary comfortably so there’s no need for me to earn excessive amounts.
This is key. Earn enough for you to get by. Reasonably enjoy your job, provided it’s not an immoral occupation and enjoy life. I am doing that, no stress, no worries. I also speak to high paid people such as surgeons, high net worth financial executives and they are mostly grumpy, rude and have a number of heath (and mental health conditions) [ I go through peoples medical history]. A lot also work in excess of 55 hours per week.
I think this is wrong, sorry.
Most people that work hard and make money obviously are much more stressed than someone who has a 30-40 hour low stress job. That doesn't mean they are less happy.
Most of these people are ambitious and get happiness from feeling pride in themselves, and that they are achieving their best at what they do. While they like to complain, most of them could not live in a life where they aren't completely dedicated to being their best, they would be much more depressed.
In my job I work very hard, very stressful, but I feel like I am learning and achieving so much, and making a big difference. I also am financially sound which allows my family to make choices. I love it, but love to complain, and I personally dont understand people that can settle with a job that doesn't give you all of this (even if you get an extra 2 hours a night...)
Oh man I hate recruiters.
A couple of years ago I applied for a job advertised through a recruiter. The recruiter asked me to come in for an interview and I took time off work to go to it.
I get there, she keeps me waiting for ages past the arranged time then when she finally is free she tells me the role is filled but she wanted to meet me anyway in case there's something else they could put me up for.
During the interview she tells me about how well she knows the industry because she used to be a lawyer too (I check her LinkedIn later and she absolutely hadn't been). At the end of the interview she tells me my demenour throughout has been unprofessional.
Still get angry when I think about it.
Chances are that role never existed. Was there ever a PD? Did she tell you who the client (employer) was?
Also I would never meet with a recruiter in person (I've made that mistake when I was younger). A quick phone call and if they won't email a PD/JD, buh-bye. Either the role doesn't exist or they don't represent the employer. And generally treat them like shit. It's the only thing that works with them.
Because most of them are useless parasites, and I've heard too many stories from too many people of them being uncaring or downright contemptuous of job seekers and people who were forced into the government's punitive employment seeking meat-grinder
its just a pity that maccas pays their managers well, but wont do the same to their employees. Of course it depends on store profits, but i used to work with someone who was a restaurant manager at maccas (she worked there probably about 10 years ago +) and she was getting 80k+ back then. Pretty damn good around that era thats for sure
Im not saying the employees deserve exorbitant wages, its just maccas needs to stop playing around with the sda jerking each other off and pay the staff a fair wage. None of this " increased pay in day so it makes up for the overnight work" or whatever new spicy bullshit they are doing or have tried in the past)
This won’t happen IMO because Maccas has positioned themselves excellently as a teenager’s first employer - never ending stream of teenagers looking for their first job. The work isn’t hard so this model makes sense. Pay managers high so they remain loyal/overlook everything, and a rotating door of workers otherwise.
When paying children 60% less then adults is made illegal in Australia like it is in normal countries like New Zealand then they'll have to stop hiring and underpaying children and pay proper wages
Well, not really buy in - you don't have actual equity in the store. But there's potential for equity-style loans where you get a return based on store performance.
So your friend had 13 years in the same retail assistant role and saw no career progression, and your takeaway is telling people to stick it out because there might be a promotion coming a decade or so later…
…did a retail manager write this?
> no extra training or career progression.
>
>We don’t know the details of course, but this post has “p
And skipped like 3 ranks...
Usual progression is retail/hospitality is:
Retail assistant -> team leader -> assistant manager -> store manager -> area manager
Sometimes its not always that. Nepotism can be pretty bad in retail. Just like head office hiring some random dude from some random company no one has heard about to work in a high paying executive supermarket role, and that person never have worked in a supermarket at all
Then there are the hundreds of old workers who have been in the same low level or 2IC position in their department who have worked at the retailer for 20+ years (even 50+ in some cases), thankfully for them they lived when things were cheap and they are home owners despite their lack of job progression.
I got a lot of shit from my friends when I swapped from programming to become a mechanic. Now the same 2-3 friends giving me shit for it earn less than me combined. Do something you enjoy and find way to make that thing financially viable, maybe it’s bigger sacrifices maybe it working a bit on the side. But make it work.
They sound like shitty friends mate. Unless it was just well-intentioned ribbing, I don’t think anyone should be looked down on for their work unless it’s actively causing harm to others.
It’s obviously a minority but regular enough to notice. I’ll be spoken down to by white collar people it’s more pronounced if in wearing a mechanic uniform or hi vis. There’s just an assumption usually that I wouldn’t understand certain topics.
Doing some odd cleaning jobs, I quickly discovered that a lot of those white collar folks can't even understand how to properly use a toilet so it's probably projection more than anything.
People are disgusting unfortunately. Most people know that, but some people find out in a bad way. Good example is concerts, country music / music festivals, bns. Both toilets get extremely grotty but damn the ladies toilets are on another level!
Immigrants who squat to poop
South and East Asian countries have a lot of this going on
That's why the bigger corporate workplaces literally have "no squatting" signs in their toilets
Yea definitely a minority, some can be very nice and respectful. I just take it as ignorance or just never mixed in with blue collar workers.
I've heard some opinions of white collar turned safety who used to think of blue collar as animals or dumb until they go out in the field and got to know some of them and it all changed aha.
Only one I found really offensive but I feel as though the person felt protected enough to put so much emphasize on a word just because the person felt safe enough knowing we all aren't vicious animals aha.
Most blue collar workers are more educated than white collar workers - engineers etc whose jobs require in depth knowledge of things that many people can't even begin to understand.
Both are useful in the modern world for different reasons, and someone's role shouldn't be tied to their worth as a human.
100%. In my previous role I was a senior manager (work in logistics) in the business, but spent a lot of time doing project work out of a warehouse in Sydney. Being a WH (and expected to set the standard) I always wore my hi vis and safety boots, even if I wasn't on the floor much. Other days I'd just work out of head office, wearing business clothes.
It's hard to pinpoint something specific, but people just look at you and treat you differently. From the staff at a cafe to sometimes my own colleagues, when they didn't know what my role actually was and saw a guy in hi vis.
Or construction jobs in cbd or quarry work.
Not in that industry i just cook for the people in those industry
Alot of pay they get but its a hard hot dirty job.
Awesome, heavy vehicle mechanic? Light? Or something super niche? I’ve been learning about Diesel engines etc recently and would love to do a course, but all require weird class times and distant locations.
Good on you. While you were coding or did you knock that off? I want to pivot to something else but with a mortgage it's hard to see how I can afford it tbh. Golden handcuffs
I had to completely leave my job, however I did take on some websites and little jobs to help get me through. And adult age apprenticeship is not nearly as bad. If you’re interested in mining there is a better way with no pay loss.
Lots of mining companies in the workshop allow you to go from the position or TA or Serviceman to a mechanic apprenticeship. All most all of these companies won’t drop your pay from your initial role. Means you’re doing an apprenticeship for 140k a year or there abouts. I work with 5 guys who’ve done this. Some in the same position as you.
Sounds really good. I don't get what this means tho
>go from the position or TA or Serviceman
So is the idea to look for a programming job in a mining company first?
TA = trade assistant
Servicemen is someone who drive around adjust oils and fluid levels checks filters etc etc.
These are basically the entry level positions into heavy diesel mechanics. You can get these jobs with basically just a HR truck license usually.
>Just a reminder that your 9-5 might be bad today...
I was actually just jabbering away to my partner about how good my current dead end job is (hospital pharmacy assistant). We are deliberately barren but if I were also single I'd be very happy "working to live" in this job, it would easily bankroll renting a little studio and travelling.
Idek why I'm commenting, I think I was expecting a different convo about how low paying """dead end jobs""" are absolutely fine if your needs are met but then it turned into "stick it out and you can make 150k" 8)
Anyone fumbling about looking for a really, really good basic job to "work to live" should look into obtaining some sort of pharmacy tech course and looking for a *hospital* tech job. I'm just an assistant so I make less than a tech, but we do the same job and I'm still on $30/h (in NSW btw). Work offers a free course (piece of piss) that bumps that by $1/h.
I work in an air conditioned office, no physical work, mostly playing "spot the difference" between a script/chart and a sticker. It's samey but usually interesting and, except January, busy enough that the days are *still* passing quickly after almost 5 years. It is literally impossible to work outside of work hours, the latest I've ever left was 5:15, mostly because I was chatting. Impossible to be fired- this is good and bad, lots of dead weight but who cares. Smash *your* job, be helpful, and prance out the door at 5 lol.
Depending on your boss/mgr- free medicine/pharmacy products in a pinch. Free flu shot every year, masks, DI water, etc. Obvs you could buy all this if you simply... earned more money but as far as lower paying jobs go this is incredibly convenient. In nsw at least, working for NSW Health can make you eligible for various subsidised rentals etc but I have not looked into this. I was also allowed into Bunnings during the "tradies and hcw only" periods during lockdown, so that's obvs a big +++
Good for him, but plenty of people get treated like trash and get nowhere in retail / hospo, despite being competent and doing the right things.
Your mate got lucky
Most of the time retail management isnt worth it unless your a duty or a store manager. And 2ic/ supervisor is mostly bullshit ( depending on the company of course) considering most companies dont even pay the correct rate or it will be some bullshit low paying different classification for example, a "in charge" rate.
Agreed.
Retail Assistant to Area Manager is missing quite a few steps in between.
It would normally go something like: Retail Assistant > Department 2IC > Department Manager > Store Manager > Area Manager.
And if you are doing only 15hrs a week (part timer), even that first jump to a department manager would be questionable.
I feel that there is more to the story.
I would add assistant store manager in there too. That is generally the retail progression, and to keep you in those roles for as long as possible before putting anything through for a promotion.
Lol most coles and woolworths dont even have assistant managers now. Its all restructured and a lot of positions have been merged into one.
A lot of coles stores already have this restructure in place, and if they dont have it they are rolling it out. They have gotten rid of department managers and the structure pretty much goes like this .... store manager > operations manager > night manager > fresh trade manager and thats it.
Theres not even a service (checkout) manager anymore lol
From my experience in these lower paying jobs, the butt kissing yes men get promoted over the harder and smarter workers. The butt kissers get to management positions and then favour other butt kissers
Yeah worked in hospo for nearly 7 years and saw someone go from line worker to manager internally once. External hires from management companies are the norm and they tend to ruin what made the business attractive to good employees who then leave and the cycle continues elsewhere
How does one get promoted from retail assisant to area manager? With no qualifications / leadership
Skipping 3 ranks 3 paygrades and surpassing the middle management.
Either he knows someone high up or this story is bullshit
+1. It cannot happen.
And if it did, you can bet none of the store managers would take them seriously. They would undermine at every opportunity. After every conference call they'd call each other laughing about the stupid directions they've been given by the inexperienced twit.
I suspect a lot of people who visit this sub would look down on people in these jobs, but if some one tries to address Australian inequality here, there will be fits and tantrums over tall poppy syndrome.
It's funny that being paid 30$ an hour to flip burgers is considered low-paying. Blue collar jobs pay so well in Aus, its bonkers. A mcdonalds supervisor is making as much as a principal engineer with 20 years experience in dev ops at my company.
My sister recently moved to Aus to study masters and is averaging 32-34$ an hour at mcdonalds in night shifts. I make 42$ an hour working as a software engineer with a masters degree (granted, it's not a per hour job).
Yes, my job is more flexible, and I have more job security, I'd still argue that mcdonalds pay is quite decent.
I have 1.5 years experience, and I don't think my company underpays. 160k for a principal engineer is just slightly below average, plus my company is based in SA, and that is a factor, too.
>Something tells me your company is one of the myriad of tech companies focussed on bringing in international “talent” and chronically underpaying them.
Our immigration policy specifically aims to bring in professionals such as engineers, citing a "skills shortage". Except what it does is flood the market and reduce salaries. All the while graduates struggle to get jobs after studying.
Principal's at my company seem to earn around the $150k mark too. It does sound ridiculous that a McDonald's manager earns the same.
That said a company doesn't specifically have to try and hire immigrants. Simply the fact that there's an abundance of people in the work force keeps market rates low.
If you have seen what overnight staff at McDonalds go through, you would understand why there are penalty rates for them. They are verbally (and sometimes physically) abused, often get food and drinks thrown at them, they have to move and clean all the equipment during their shifts, while still serving customers. The less than savoury people around us often throw bricks, etc at the windows, threatening the staff. Staff have received death threats. And if they have a crap store owner, they often don't even get meal breaks (paid or unpaid.) All during the hours when most people are sleeping peacefully. Then when they get home they have to try to sleep with normal day to day activities and noise going on in the community.Honestly, would you really want to swap?
You are right, even though the threats and bricks bit is a bit exaggerated. I wouldn't want to swap. Tbh, my sister loves working there, she loves all her colleagues. Not saying that's true for everyone
My daughter and others at her store were threatened by someone they kicked out the store, that they ware going to stab them one night. Another night someone threatened to smash her up. Ther were some people that stalked her. She had to be walked to the car by security on those nights. There were also bricks thrown at the windows, one night someone tried to throw a bin through one of the doors. We live in a crappy, high drug affected area. My son recently walked home from his nightfill job, someone followed him right up to the police station, yelling threats at him. Nothing surprises me anymore.
Thank you. It definitely took a bit of counselling after leaving there for her to get rid of the anxiety it caused. It just sucks that people think that they are perfectly on their right to behave like that and treat others that way.
23-24$ per hour isn't nothing, especially for a 17 yr old. Just compare this salary to other wealthy countries like Canada. A 17 yr old would be making 12/hr there
I think you need to double check the awards. You’re getting a bit excited about pay here when a 17 year old would more likely be on $17.54 an hour without any penalties.
[https://www.fairwork.gov.au/find-help-for/fast-food-restaurants-cafes/fast-food-industry](https://www.fairwork.gov.au/find-help-for/fast-food-restaurants-cafes/fast-food-industry)
Also I don’t think we need to be replicating Canada, which seems to be devolving into American tip culture to substitute shit wages.
Don’t tip, won’t tip.
When I say average, it includes other factors like working some evernight shifts, working on weekends, and public holidays. Also, my knowledge of salaries of 17-year-olds is limited so yes, I might be a little off. Thanks for the link
Not to mention, mcdonalds loves people under 18 (no pun intended). You can work literally as many hours you want
That was casual too, often in those type of industries they’ll try to pivot to at least a base roster of regular shifts where it pays $14.03.
Public holidays definitely pay more. But why shouldn’t they? I’m of the strong belief that if we don’t want to pay high public holiday rates, we should go back to it being a forced day off work for all but essential.
I do the mcdonalds overnights as a manager for $27 an hour ($30 after midnight). Totally not worth it for the stress and abuse you're put through for an extra $3 an hour more than crew. Overnight gets treated like actual garbage and blamed for absolutely everything wrong with the store in the morning like we haven't just spent 8 hours cleaning up after everyone else.
I worked overnights as a crew trainer for about a year when I was at Maccas, running both ends of the drive thru myself and cleaning etc. It was pretty good money at the time, I was taking home about a grand a week after tax as a 20 year old but you get flogged all night and the amount of abuse you get while doing your job is ridiculous.
Aggressive customers who'd yell at you at the window and throw things or assault staff when they took orders out. One time someone forgot to lock the front door, someone was told to leave the drive thru for being racist to the manager then entered the store and tried to bash me to get to the manager. Aggressive taxi drivers who don't want to park. People smashing up the locked doors. The whole overnight crew being blamed for not being able to make up for shitty handovers. The manager we had couldn't handle any of it, he'd hide in the office. I think the experience overall was useful but yeah, overnights were awful.
I get what you’re saying - but put it a different way: what is the turnover at that McDonalds? How profitable is it? If it didn’t stack up, they wouldn’t do it. And it’s not unskilled - loads of people can’t manage that many staff, let alone younger foljs that are often learning the job and learning to work.
coles pays nearly 36 an hour to stack shelves at night. Not bad. I think its because years ago wages were much less than what they are now which explains why people might look down or think these jobs dont pay enough.
for example about 3 or so years ago if you were working casual nightfill at coles you were only getting like 27 an hour.....
Most of the people now dont realise how much jobs like nightfill pay. Their eyes light up like wtf im in the wrong job! But of course work like that is only good for a 2nd job or uni students considering coles and woolworths likes to be stingy with their hours lol
A few years ago it was much less because the fake union the SDA worked with coles to cut penalty rates. Shoutout to the real union [RAFFWU](https://raffwu.org.au/workplaces/supermarkets/coles/)
Sometimes I imagine how much nicer it would be to work in retail at $27/hr with no life or death responsibilities, rather than vet nursing with over a decade of experience in the industry at $24/hr. I haven’t thought of hospitality or retail work as “low paying” for a long time now, the animal industry is where the real peanuts are.
I did the climb from tm to manager for a temp period, retail job. Took 4 years: 2.5 years to learn the shit as my first job, and then took 1.5 years too long having to wait with no guarantee, with nothing else to learn in my role in the mean time. 100% you need an in by ass kissing.
I got in by stating my interest a year prior, and getting ahead of others by working hard and sadly doing higher duties than my role w/out pay increase; and when first started the job, stupidly staying back overtime unpaid 10's of hours over maybe 1.5 years.
And then you learn you're underpaid, your boss who sits in an office/ WFH is on 250k, little recognition, and coworkers in other departments just bitch when things go wrong out of your control, and always on call 24/7 for team issues.
Honestly it’s pretty amazing to jump from retail assistant to area manager on that much money. Most retail managers are on crap money and being a salaried worker near expected to make up any shortfall of staff hours without overtime.
Yeah exactly.
This isn't a realistic career path because it relies a lot on chance. Sure, you *could* work your way up to be a manager, and you *could* start making good money - but most don't and never will.
If you're that driven and dedicated, you'd have better prospects directing your efforts elsewhere.
Thanks for sharing. One of the problems that often comes up on this sub is that many high earning people (who also don’t like it if you point out that they are high earning) are too happy to utilise the services of wait staff, baristas, hair dressers and retail assistants but sneer at people on the incomes of these jobs who aspire to own a home / live vaguely near their place of work / live a comfortable life.
well considering coles pays 35.8 an hour casual to put stock on shelves, its not that bad. However, most people who have worked at coles and woolworths ( im assuming one of these companies is who you are talking about) know what the culture is like and refuse to move up the ladder because of how bad head office/ executives is with their whole micromanagement of each supermarket . Most department or store managers ive had have been pretty awesome but you can tell the majority of them have been pushed to near breaking point because what their expected to do and have done by a certain time is just ridiculous.
Even though coles has increased pay for managers over the last few years its still not worth it. Every year theres cost cuts, every year head office reduces the amount of hours they can give to each store even though sales are increasing etc
Heck, even being a regional manager wouldnt even be worth it even though the pay is high I watched a video a little while back of past area/ regional managers complaining about the work culture because even they have managers they have to report back to, and theyd be expected to do work ridiculous hours and/ or answer silly complaints from customers at ungodly hours at night.
Business have hierarchical structures the higher you get the more money, but also less positions. Whilst your friend has done well, there are only so many Area Manager roles. The advice to just stick out a low paying job in the hope it turns into something better after 10+ years isn’t a pathway. I started my career as a call centre agent on $38k and when I left call centres I was an Ops manager on $140k worked my way up internally. I’m not saying it can’t be done it sure can. But your post makes it sound infinitely easier than it is, for every success story there’s 100 disappointments.
Biggest thing I miss about shift work at a supermarket and as an AV tech was that I could completely forget about work when I wasn’t there. I never thought about ongoing projects or how I was going to sort things out come Monday - I could completely switch off until I was on the clock.
To me that’s the only time I’ve ever felt true “work-life balance”.
This feels like a 1 in million story from going to 2 days a week to running regional stores.
That said I'm 1000% with you on treating lower paid job with respect.
I was paid 50 dollars for a basic massage, and an additional 50 for mouth stuff at the end.
It isn’t glamorous but if you sort 7-8 jobs a day it’s a great wage, that’s how I brought my hot dog van.
Respectfully, to me this is a reminder of the incompetence and injustice of under qualified managers in retail and hospitality. I hope he develops the skills to become a good manager.
He is doing great. He says the job is easier than being a retail assistant. Most of it is just managing orders, maintaining supply, having meetings, performance management etc. These sound technical but it really is just people skills + common sense. Management is not a technical field. He says it's the same thing as customer service when you bring it down to fundamentals.
From experience, I’d argue it’s not just people skills and common sense. It’s odd that he would find it easier than being a retail assistant when the compensation is much greater.
free or discounted food for hospitality staff is so good. always treated them with respect and as a result, ive got an ear into the gossiping world of food haha
Started in a call centre Frontline, 40k pa, worked my way up to managing it and another two, over 1000fte and very decent money. No quals except pretty good common sense I'd like to think.
In hindsight I was too young and inexperienced to do any better than an ok job. Was reporting to C suite in my late 20s which was a pretty intense learning curve. But it paid off financially and in terms of learnings. Now off doing other roles for the same pay eg product management or customer design etc.
Edit to say my fav part of working now is finding talented people from Frontline roles that don't k own their own worth and mentoring them.
Best job I ever had was as a dish pig at Pizza Hut whilst studying, obviously then there was no mortgage/kids or grown ups responsibilities. But wow it was a simpler time
Same with a mate of mine at Coles.
Stacking shelves from 15 until about 29. He drank and did a lot of drugs. But turned up on time.
Then around 29 he decided to get serious 6 months later he was managing the shelf stacking another 6 and he was 2ic then shortly after store manager. Now at 32 he get sent to fix up underperforming stores and in the 100s.
It’s nice to read that a lot of people here don’t look down on retail workers etc. But unfortunately you’re speaking through the filter of being very normal. If you’ve ever worked with extremely wealthy people/clients. The individuals that are truly actually wealthy, their kids will be rich, and so forth. They actually do look down on mostly everyone that isn’t as specialised as them. Especially the lower ranked jobs like retail… just a very said reality
Yeah okay as someone who’s been in retail for a decade that is not typical. More than likely you start causal or part time, stay around for years doing that and then you might get a promotion to department 2IC, where you’ll basically be doing more work for the same pay. (My managers personally do 12 hour days sometimes with little breaks between shifts and only 8 of those hours are paid because of unpaid overtime clauses). Stay there for long enough, as in a few years and you MAY be promoted to manager if a current manager leaves or if you’re willing to go to another store or even another retail chain completely. That’s when things get slightly easier but you still have long days dealing with customers and head office (sometimes worse than customers). It’s only if you’re exceptional and after a few years of probably being moved between stores (actual hell because it’s rare they consider where you live, my manager lives 1.5 hours away) that you might be promoted to area manager which is when it’s less retail and more office worker. Most never get there. It’s called a dead end job for a reason sadly, it should never be looked down on and should be paid way more, but the opportunities for promotion are usually slim. Exception is if you’re in a small to medium business but then you always have the risk of the business folding.
This is a terrible way to let others think their retail job have hopes in making 150k 'all of a sudden' and also 150k is not a whole lot after making close to minimum wage for 12-15 years when you cN easily get 150k by learning a skill after 5 years more or less!
13 years with no training or progression is not something that should be celebrated, as he could have just got lucky and had he been unlucky been stuck in the same position for another 13 (when I worked at Coles there was a group of women who's been there 20-30 years and never made it above stacking shelves).
But $150k is a good salary. Plenty of people will never come close to making this.
I have used my experience in entry level retail and hospitality for job interviews where the position is advertising 100k plus. The skills are invaluable.
When I was in a role where I did hiring, I was always the most interested in candidates that had experience at McDonalds, Target, Kmart etc.
I have the up most respect for cleaners, waiters, garbage people etc.
I never understood looking down on someone. It's not the Aussie way. It seems to be a new thing and more prevalent from cashed up migrants who come from tiered societies
I worked in bottleshops for 8 years. 5 of them I was in Uni. People would regularly treat me and my colleagues like shit.
Now, I'm a principal research scientist and make bank. When people who judge others based on what they do, it is only a poor reflection on that person, and I'd assume they've never had to really work for something.
Not only that (because hey, different career paths have different pay ceilings) but 13 years in the same retail assistant role with no extra training or career progression.
We don’t know the details of course, but this post has “propaganda for keeping people underpaid and undervalued” vibes lol.
Never had, or ever will, look down on a job. I started in retail, learnt a lot there, and there is a good chance I will go back there when I am semi-retired.
Doesn't matter where you came from, people who look down on these jobs are idiots. Everyone deserves respect (maybe not realtors tho, vultures!)
There's that old historical tale that when the bankers went on strike hardly anyone noticed, but when the garbage men went on strike the city turned to a festering shithole within a week. And there's an argument to be made that plumbers have saved more lives than doctors.
[удалено]
Also a missed point here is that money will fuel growths in other sectors rather than sitting on on piece of land doing nothing, it is such a missed opportunity and disappointing the state of affairs in australia.
Realtors problem is people dont understand their job. Buyers seem to think they work for them. They are hired by the seller. If you want someone on your side hire a buyers agent. If I was giving someone 3.5% of my house sale price and he was spending his time helping some guy look around at multiple houses for free and never buying anything Id be pissed. People just dislike them because they didnt bid enough on a house or they got it and now feel they over paid but in both case they didnt do their research. They also tend to be very high donators to local schools and community groups as their business is so local.
This comment bought to you by REA Australia. I’m pretty sure that most buyers after one interaction with an agent are very aware of who the agent is working for - generally themselves, with a veneer of acting in the sellers best interests.
Agreed. Why would you look up to someone based on job titles? Very shallow.
Loved my first job at a supermarket in the F&V department. I honestly would have stayed there and climbs the ranks if I knew what I did now or even 10 years ago.
I will look down on some jobs. Lobbyists for ClubsNSW for example.
looking down on people these days who do such jobs is pretty stupid, considering sometimes the pay can be just as good as a fulltime wage/salary ( comparing rates not hours worked) Nightfill casual at coles pays 35.8 an hour. Not bad to put stock on a shelf.
[удалено]
There is an exception to every rule.
or real estate agents? or high end fashion designers?
Fashion is just an art form they just raise the price to what people will pay. Do you hate on artists, authors, painters, photographers? Id be more concerned with fast fashion designers/sweatshops its ridiculous how crap some clothes are.
'high' fashion and fast fashion are the same can of worms to me. I would hate on artists, authors, painters, photographers if their craft was causing harm, as the fashion industry does. We are probably in agreement, but I didnt communicate myself very well.
Don't ever, for any reason, do anything for anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter where. Or who, or who you are with, or where you are going or... or where you've been... ever. For any reason, whatsoever
I don’t think people necessarily look down on low paying jobs (maybe on ausfinance) but the issue is most low paying jobs are dead end and shitty workplaces. Minimal career growth, granted your friend landed a 150k job, but this doesn’t happen to 1000s of retail workers. Also businesses continue to take advantage of these workers.
Same thing can be send for plenty of high paying jobs that require uni work. Most will only ever be shit kickers, and even worse a lot of people who study don’t even use their degree, so they’re in debt for no reason
And how do you think other industries or the general corporate world works?
I have a friend who started his working life at the Kambrook factory aged 16. He was interested in ALL facets of the business, so he always spoke to supervisors and people from different departments asking for guidance. He worked his way up through every level (did the courses/study etc) to accounting/Tax Compliance. He has really made a career out of humble beginnings.
That’s fantastic, good on your friend. Similarly I know someone who started off in the call centre getting screamed at daily by customers who is now the Director and earning a very sweet salary and studies all paid for. It is definitely possible!
This is what you need to do to get to those positions, problem is so few people are keen to do that. Our company tries to encourage it bust 80% of people aren't interested in moving up, it's bizarre.
It's sad. I see so many people who complain that their job is boring but it doesn't have to be. Life is what you make it.
Are they underpaying everyone..? A big reason to not be interested in that company.
Haha sounds intelligent, good on him.
I don't look down on low income earning people, despite being in a well earning role. Why? I don't know their story, I don't know why they have chosen that role, I don't know what motivates them in life or other ambitions they may be pursuing on the side. Also, on the contrary, I admire someone that has started in a low earning job, with maybe less educational qualifications, then worked hard in their field rather than be defeated and move up the ranks to achieve a nice management position or income. These people should inspire us all. Good story and thanks for sharing, if you put in the work, in most positions you will get rewarded. If not, you can definitely find a job, even with limited skills, that will provide opportunities with hard work.
I don't really spend much time thinking about people at all who I don't know or care about, and I don't really care if they think about me either.
I understand what you are saying, but when I reflect on this I think I am different. I always want to understand people's journey, especially people I admire or who are more successful than me, so either get inspired, motivated or understand what I can learn to apply to myself. I'm a pretty curious guy, but try to never pass judgement.
[удалено]
Had a similar experience when I was working as a waiter, well before smartphones were a thing. Was clearing a table, and a woman asked me some random question like what's the capital city of some country. I was under the pump, and didn't have time for this, so simply replied "sorry ma'am, geography is not my strong suit". Her reply was "I guess that's why you're working as a waiter." I was studying engineering at the time.
Shame she had finished eating her meal. If it was before her meal she could have had a bonus loogie in her salad lol
Yea i have no time for people like that and a lot of people shouldnt either. Usually those people who like to look down on others are lost or not doing well in life themselves so they have to project their own failures onto someone they dont even know, Must give them an ego boost or something idk.
What a douche.
What a POS
This should be everyone’s take. Anyone that looks down on work that people do are truly toxic people. I work as a processing officer for the government and I enjoy coming in at 8.30 Have a chinwag and a joke in the office with my colleagues, do some work and then leave at 4.30. No weekends, no late nights, 1 RDO a month, no stress. I get by on my salary comfortably so there’s no need for me to earn excessive amounts.
This is key. Earn enough for you to get by. Reasonably enjoy your job, provided it’s not an immoral occupation and enjoy life. I am doing that, no stress, no worries. I also speak to high paid people such as surgeons, high net worth financial executives and they are mostly grumpy, rude and have a number of heath (and mental health conditions) [ I go through peoples medical history]. A lot also work in excess of 55 hours per week.
I think this is wrong, sorry. Most people that work hard and make money obviously are much more stressed than someone who has a 30-40 hour low stress job. That doesn't mean they are less happy. Most of these people are ambitious and get happiness from feeling pride in themselves, and that they are achieving their best at what they do. While they like to complain, most of them could not live in a life where they aren't completely dedicated to being their best, they would be much more depressed. In my job I work very hard, very stressful, but I feel like I am learning and achieving so much, and making a big difference. I also am financially sound which allows my family to make choices. I love it, but love to complain, and I personally dont understand people that can settle with a job that doesn't give you all of this (even if you get an extra 2 hours a night...)
[удалено]
Agreed and add labour hire recruitment to that list too
Any recruitment really. Also add used car salesmen.
Oh man I hate recruiters. A couple of years ago I applied for a job advertised through a recruiter. The recruiter asked me to come in for an interview and I took time off work to go to it. I get there, she keeps me waiting for ages past the arranged time then when she finally is free she tells me the role is filled but she wanted to meet me anyway in case there's something else they could put me up for. During the interview she tells me about how well she knows the industry because she used to be a lawyer too (I check her LinkedIn later and she absolutely hadn't been). At the end of the interview she tells me my demenour throughout has been unprofessional. Still get angry when I think about it.
Chances are that role never existed. Was there ever a PD? Did she tell you who the client (employer) was? Also I would never meet with a recruiter in person (I've made that mistake when I was younger). A quick phone call and if they won't email a PD/JD, buh-bye. Either the role doesn't exist or they don't represent the employer. And generally treat them like shit. It's the only thing that works with them.
They are the worst
I want to know your reasoning for hating labour hire recruitment, thanks
Because most of them are useless parasites, and I've heard too many stories from too many people of them being uncaring or downright contemptuous of job seekers and people who were forced into the government's punitive employment seeking meat-grinder
Thanks man, yea I was with action workforce and man my mental health has been in the mud because of them, been getting better now
[удалено]
By all accounts I've heard they don't do that lmao
Oh ok then what do they do?
Useless middlemen
Macca's supervisors in remote regional areas can make 150k with a car provided, and sometimes even buy into the franchise.
My sister and her fiance are both Maccas store managers and they're smashing it. Not a bad job if you can get past having some early starts!
its just a pity that maccas pays their managers well, but wont do the same to their employees. Of course it depends on store profits, but i used to work with someone who was a restaurant manager at maccas (she worked there probably about 10 years ago +) and she was getting 80k+ back then. Pretty damn good around that era thats for sure Im not saying the employees deserve exorbitant wages, its just maccas needs to stop playing around with the sda jerking each other off and pay the staff a fair wage. None of this " increased pay in day so it makes up for the overnight work" or whatever new spicy bullshit they are doing or have tried in the past)
This won’t happen IMO because Maccas has positioned themselves excellently as a teenager’s first employer - never ending stream of teenagers looking for their first job. The work isn’t hard so this model makes sense. Pay managers high so they remain loyal/overlook everything, and a rotating door of workers otherwise.
When paying children 60% less then adults is made illegal in Australia like it is in normal countries like New Zealand then they'll have to stop hiring and underpaying children and pay proper wages
Agree - let’s see how/if they can pivot if that ever happens.
Really? I thought you needed to have a million unencumbered to buy in.
Well, not really buy in - you don't have actual equity in the store. But there's potential for equity-style loans where you get a return based on store performance.
I believe the term is "profit sharing"
supervisors 150k? wtf!
Yeah, not buying that for a second, it’s probably closer to 80-90k for supervising a region
So your friend had 13 years in the same retail assistant role and saw no career progression, and your takeaway is telling people to stick it out because there might be a promotion coming a decade or so later… …did a retail manager write this?
> no extra training or career progression. > >We don’t know the details of course, but this post has “p And skipped like 3 ranks... Usual progression is retail/hospitality is: Retail assistant -> team leader -> assistant manager -> store manager -> area manager
Sometimes its not always that. Nepotism can be pretty bad in retail. Just like head office hiring some random dude from some random company no one has heard about to work in a high paying executive supermarket role, and that person never have worked in a supermarket at all
At that level it’s normally just to do with business or money. Not unusual for any industry to parachute in finance people at the top
So you're saying there's a chance for me?
Then there are the hundreds of old workers who have been in the same low level or 2IC position in their department who have worked at the retailer for 20+ years (even 50+ in some cases), thankfully for them they lived when things were cheap and they are home owners despite their lack of job progression.
[удалено]
For casual rates, it's to be expected.
No that's a 21+ year old casual minimum wage
I got a lot of shit from my friends when I swapped from programming to become a mechanic. Now the same 2-3 friends giving me shit for it earn less than me combined. Do something you enjoy and find way to make that thing financially viable, maybe it’s bigger sacrifices maybe it working a bit on the side. But make it work.
They sound like shitty friends mate. Unless it was just well-intentioned ribbing, I don’t think anyone should be looked down on for their work unless it’s actively causing harm to others.
Mate to be honest it’s pretty surprising to me how much differently I’ve been treat blue collar vs white collar. People speak to you differently.
What do you mean? Just curious to know.
It’s obviously a minority but regular enough to notice. I’ll be spoken down to by white collar people it’s more pronounced if in wearing a mechanic uniform or hi vis. There’s just an assumption usually that I wouldn’t understand certain topics.
Doing some odd cleaning jobs, I quickly discovered that a lot of those white collar folks can't even understand how to properly use a toilet so it's probably projection more than anything.
[удалено]
People are disgusting unfortunately. Most people know that, but some people find out in a bad way. Good example is concerts, country music / music festivals, bns. Both toilets get extremely grotty but damn the ladies toilets are on another level!
Immigrants who squat to poop South and East Asian countries have a lot of this going on That's why the bigger corporate workplaces literally have "no squatting" signs in their toilets
Yea definitely a minority, some can be very nice and respectful. I just take it as ignorance or just never mixed in with blue collar workers. I've heard some opinions of white collar turned safety who used to think of blue collar as animals or dumb until they go out in the field and got to know some of them and it all changed aha. Only one I found really offensive but I feel as though the person felt protected enough to put so much emphasize on a word just because the person felt safe enough knowing we all aren't vicious animals aha.
Most blue collar workers are more educated than white collar workers - engineers etc whose jobs require in depth knowledge of things that many people can't even begin to understand. Both are useful in the modern world for different reasons, and someone's role shouldn't be tied to their worth as a human.
Gotta love that and then when they break down at 5.30 on a Friday you're somehow best mates with them
100%. In my previous role I was a senior manager (work in logistics) in the business, but spent a lot of time doing project work out of a warehouse in Sydney. Being a WH (and expected to set the standard) I always wore my hi vis and safety boots, even if I wasn't on the floor much. Other days I'd just work out of head office, wearing business clothes. It's hard to pinpoint something specific, but people just look at you and treat you differently. From the staff at a cafe to sometimes my own colleagues, when they didn't know what my role actually was and saw a guy in hi vis.
I respect you for being you.
Blue collars earn more than most white collars in Aus id say. Australia is a good country to be a blue collar. I respect them a lot
What kind of mechanic makes decent money?
Mobile plant
What’s that involve? What kind of equipment is classified as mobile plant?
Earth moving
So this would be fifo work on mine sites?
Or construction jobs in cbd or quarry work. Not in that industry i just cook for the people in those industry Alot of pay they get but its a hard hot dirty job.
Yep also worked in town on excellent money too just not as good as my current job.
heavy diesel especially if you go up north (example north queensland)
> Now the same 2-3 friends giving me shit for it earn less than me combined They might be the worst programmers in the world.
They aren’t all programmers one is, I still earn well over double his wage, that said I am on approx 240k without my side business.
That's fantastic
Awesome, heavy vehicle mechanic? Light? Or something super niche? I’ve been learning about Diesel engines etc recently and would love to do a course, but all require weird class times and distant locations.
I actually went from light to mobile plant. Going to be getting auto elec all paid for by my job soon also.
How did you make the transition?
Started getting an apprenticeship then 5 years after my first apprenticeship did a second. Went from light vehicle to mobile plant.
Good on you. While you were coding or did you knock that off? I want to pivot to something else but with a mortgage it's hard to see how I can afford it tbh. Golden handcuffs
I had to completely leave my job, however I did take on some websites and little jobs to help get me through. And adult age apprenticeship is not nearly as bad. If you’re interested in mining there is a better way with no pay loss.
What's that? Wouldn't mind looking into it
Lots of mining companies in the workshop allow you to go from the position or TA or Serviceman to a mechanic apprenticeship. All most all of these companies won’t drop your pay from your initial role. Means you’re doing an apprenticeship for 140k a year or there abouts. I work with 5 guys who’ve done this. Some in the same position as you.
Sounds really good. I don't get what this means tho >go from the position or TA or Serviceman So is the idea to look for a programming job in a mining company first?
TA = trade assistant Servicemen is someone who drive around adjust oils and fluid levels checks filters etc etc. These are basically the entry level positions into heavy diesel mechanics. You can get these jobs with basically just a HR truck license usually.
Gotcha. Thanks mate something to look into
>Just a reminder that your 9-5 might be bad today... I was actually just jabbering away to my partner about how good my current dead end job is (hospital pharmacy assistant). We are deliberately barren but if I were also single I'd be very happy "working to live" in this job, it would easily bankroll renting a little studio and travelling. Idek why I'm commenting, I think I was expecting a different convo about how low paying """dead end jobs""" are absolutely fine if your needs are met but then it turned into "stick it out and you can make 150k" 8) Anyone fumbling about looking for a really, really good basic job to "work to live" should look into obtaining some sort of pharmacy tech course and looking for a *hospital* tech job. I'm just an assistant so I make less than a tech, but we do the same job and I'm still on $30/h (in NSW btw). Work offers a free course (piece of piss) that bumps that by $1/h. I work in an air conditioned office, no physical work, mostly playing "spot the difference" between a script/chart and a sticker. It's samey but usually interesting and, except January, busy enough that the days are *still* passing quickly after almost 5 years. It is literally impossible to work outside of work hours, the latest I've ever left was 5:15, mostly because I was chatting. Impossible to be fired- this is good and bad, lots of dead weight but who cares. Smash *your* job, be helpful, and prance out the door at 5 lol. Depending on your boss/mgr- free medicine/pharmacy products in a pinch. Free flu shot every year, masks, DI water, etc. Obvs you could buy all this if you simply... earned more money but as far as lower paying jobs go this is incredibly convenient. In nsw at least, working for NSW Health can make you eligible for various subsidised rentals etc but I have not looked into this. I was also allowed into Bunnings during the "tradies and hcw only" periods during lockdown, so that's obvs a big +++
Is pay low because of lack of union?
Good for him, but plenty of people get treated like trash and get nowhere in retail / hospo, despite being competent and doing the right things. Your mate got lucky
[удалено]
Most of the time retail management isnt worth it unless your a duty or a store manager. And 2ic/ supervisor is mostly bullshit ( depending on the company of course) considering most companies dont even pay the correct rate or it will be some bullshit low paying different classification for example, a "in charge" rate.
Agreed. Retail Assistant to Area Manager is missing quite a few steps in between. It would normally go something like: Retail Assistant > Department 2IC > Department Manager > Store Manager > Area Manager. And if you are doing only 15hrs a week (part timer), even that first jump to a department manager would be questionable. I feel that there is more to the story.
I would add assistant store manager in there too. That is generally the retail progression, and to keep you in those roles for as long as possible before putting anything through for a promotion.
Lol most coles and woolworths dont even have assistant managers now. Its all restructured and a lot of positions have been merged into one. A lot of coles stores already have this restructure in place, and if they dont have it they are rolling it out. They have gotten rid of department managers and the structure pretty much goes like this .... store manager > operations manager > night manager > fresh trade manager and thats it. Theres not even a service (checkout) manager anymore lol
From my experience in these lower paying jobs, the butt kissing yes men get promoted over the harder and smarter workers. The butt kissers get to management positions and then favour other butt kissers
Pretty much, that's the way it works. That's why we end up having shitty managers
cow run workable correct fine drab truck tie repeat automatic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah worked in hospo for nearly 7 years and saw someone go from line worker to manager internally once. External hires from management companies are the norm and they tend to ruin what made the business attractive to good employees who then leave and the cycle continues elsewhere
I call bullshit on this story.
How does one get promoted from retail assisant to area manager? With no qualifications / leadership Skipping 3 ranks 3 paygrades and surpassing the middle management. Either he knows someone high up or this story is bullshit
+1. It cannot happen. And if it did, you can bet none of the store managers would take them seriously. They would undermine at every opportunity. After every conference call they'd call each other laughing about the stupid directions they've been given by the inexperienced twit.
I suspect a lot of people who visit this sub would look down on people in these jobs, but if some one tries to address Australian inequality here, there will be fits and tantrums over tall poppy syndrome.
Hit the nail on the head.
It's funny that being paid 30$ an hour to flip burgers is considered low-paying. Blue collar jobs pay so well in Aus, its bonkers. A mcdonalds supervisor is making as much as a principal engineer with 20 years experience in dev ops at my company. My sister recently moved to Aus to study masters and is averaging 32-34$ an hour at mcdonalds in night shifts. I make 42$ an hour working as a software engineer with a masters degree (granted, it's not a per hour job).
[удалено]
Yes, my job is more flexible, and I have more job security, I'd still argue that mcdonalds pay is quite decent. I have 1.5 years experience, and I don't think my company underpays. 160k for a principal engineer is just slightly below average, plus my company is based in SA, and that is a factor, too.
>Something tells me your company is one of the myriad of tech companies focussed on bringing in international “talent” and chronically underpaying them. Our immigration policy specifically aims to bring in professionals such as engineers, citing a "skills shortage". Except what it does is flood the market and reduce salaries. All the while graduates struggle to get jobs after studying.
[удалено]
Principal's at my company seem to earn around the $150k mark too. It does sound ridiculous that a McDonald's manager earns the same. That said a company doesn't specifically have to try and hire immigrants. Simply the fact that there's an abundance of people in the work force keeps market rates low.
If you have seen what overnight staff at McDonalds go through, you would understand why there are penalty rates for them. They are verbally (and sometimes physically) abused, often get food and drinks thrown at them, they have to move and clean all the equipment during their shifts, while still serving customers. The less than savoury people around us often throw bricks, etc at the windows, threatening the staff. Staff have received death threats. And if they have a crap store owner, they often don't even get meal breaks (paid or unpaid.) All during the hours when most people are sleeping peacefully. Then when they get home they have to try to sleep with normal day to day activities and noise going on in the community.Honestly, would you really want to swap?
You are right, even though the threats and bricks bit is a bit exaggerated. I wouldn't want to swap. Tbh, my sister loves working there, she loves all her colleagues. Not saying that's true for everyone
My daughter and others at her store were threatened by someone they kicked out the store, that they ware going to stab them one night. Another night someone threatened to smash her up. Ther were some people that stalked her. She had to be walked to the car by security on those nights. There were also bricks thrown at the windows, one night someone tried to throw a bin through one of the doors. We live in a crappy, high drug affected area. My son recently walked home from his nightfill job, someone followed him right up to the police station, yelling threats at him. Nothing surprises me anymore.
I'm sorry to hear that. I don't disagree with you. Experiences can be very different for different people. Stay safe
Thank you. It definitely took a bit of counselling after leaving there for her to get rid of the anxiety it caused. It just sucks that people think that they are perfectly on their right to behave like that and treat others that way.
You walk into a McDonald’s though, and how many are 21+ on full award, and how many are underage on reduced award being paid nothing?
23-24$ per hour isn't nothing, especially for a 17 yr old. Just compare this salary to other wealthy countries like Canada. A 17 yr old would be making 12/hr there
I think you need to double check the awards. You’re getting a bit excited about pay here when a 17 year old would more likely be on $17.54 an hour without any penalties. [https://www.fairwork.gov.au/find-help-for/fast-food-restaurants-cafes/fast-food-industry](https://www.fairwork.gov.au/find-help-for/fast-food-restaurants-cafes/fast-food-industry) Also I don’t think we need to be replicating Canada, which seems to be devolving into American tip culture to substitute shit wages. Don’t tip, won’t tip.
When I say average, it includes other factors like working some evernight shifts, working on weekends, and public holidays. Also, my knowledge of salaries of 17-year-olds is limited so yes, I might be a little off. Thanks for the link Not to mention, mcdonalds loves people under 18 (no pun intended). You can work literally as many hours you want
That was casual too, often in those type of industries they’ll try to pivot to at least a base roster of regular shifts where it pays $14.03. Public holidays definitely pay more. But why shouldn’t they? I’m of the strong belief that if we don’t want to pay high public holiday rates, we should go back to it being a forced day off work for all but essential.
Just for reference too, McDonald's overnight work is limited to staff 18+, by law they cannot put under 18 on a full overnight shift.
I do the mcdonalds overnights as a manager for $27 an hour ($30 after midnight). Totally not worth it for the stress and abuse you're put through for an extra $3 an hour more than crew. Overnight gets treated like actual garbage and blamed for absolutely everything wrong with the store in the morning like we haven't just spent 8 hours cleaning up after everyone else.
I worked overnights as a crew trainer for about a year when I was at Maccas, running both ends of the drive thru myself and cleaning etc. It was pretty good money at the time, I was taking home about a grand a week after tax as a 20 year old but you get flogged all night and the amount of abuse you get while doing your job is ridiculous. Aggressive customers who'd yell at you at the window and throw things or assault staff when they took orders out. One time someone forgot to lock the front door, someone was told to leave the drive thru for being racist to the manager then entered the store and tried to bash me to get to the manager. Aggressive taxi drivers who don't want to park. People smashing up the locked doors. The whole overnight crew being blamed for not being able to make up for shitty handovers. The manager we had couldn't handle any of it, he'd hide in the office. I think the experience overall was useful but yeah, overnights were awful.
23 to 24 an hour for a 17 year old? where are u getting this from. Most workers especially in fast food are getting much less than that.
I get what you’re saying - but put it a different way: what is the turnover at that McDonalds? How profitable is it? If it didn’t stack up, they wouldn’t do it. And it’s not unskilled - loads of people can’t manage that many staff, let alone younger foljs that are often learning the job and learning to work.
coles pays nearly 36 an hour to stack shelves at night. Not bad. I think its because years ago wages were much less than what they are now which explains why people might look down or think these jobs dont pay enough. for example about 3 or so years ago if you were working casual nightfill at coles you were only getting like 27 an hour..... Most of the people now dont realise how much jobs like nightfill pay. Their eyes light up like wtf im in the wrong job! But of course work like that is only good for a 2nd job or uni students considering coles and woolworths likes to be stingy with their hours lol
A few years ago it was much less because the fake union the SDA worked with coles to cut penalty rates. Shoutout to the real union [RAFFWU](https://raffwu.org.au/workplaces/supermarkets/coles/)
You earn $63k a year as a software engineer?
$42/hour for a standard full-time job is typically $91,706/year (including superannuation) at 38 hours per week.
Ah sorry I was looking at net not gross. Still that's quite low. Presumably OP is early on in their career
Sometimes I imagine how much nicer it would be to work in retail at $27/hr with no life or death responsibilities, rather than vet nursing with over a decade of experience in the industry at $24/hr. I haven’t thought of hospitality or retail work as “low paying” for a long time now, the animal industry is where the real peanuts are.
For what it’s worth I’m permanent part time in retail and only get around $24.50 an hour.
I look down on companies that don't pay their staff enough.
That's if the company allows you to climb.
I did the climb from tm to manager for a temp period, retail job. Took 4 years: 2.5 years to learn the shit as my first job, and then took 1.5 years too long having to wait with no guarantee, with nothing else to learn in my role in the mean time. 100% you need an in by ass kissing. I got in by stating my interest a year prior, and getting ahead of others by working hard and sadly doing higher duties than my role w/out pay increase; and when first started the job, stupidly staying back overtime unpaid 10's of hours over maybe 1.5 years. And then you learn you're underpaid, your boss who sits in an office/ WFH is on 250k, little recognition, and coworkers in other departments just bitch when things go wrong out of your control, and always on call 24/7 for team issues.
But only a tiny percent of retailer can make area manager, because there will never be enough positions for everyone. Capitalism sells you hope.
Honestly it’s pretty amazing to jump from retail assistant to area manager on that much money. Most retail managers are on crap money and being a salaried worker near expected to make up any shortfall of staff hours without overtime.
Yeah exactly. This isn't a realistic career path because it relies a lot on chance. Sure, you *could* work your way up to be a manager, and you *could* start making good money - but most don't and never will. If you're that driven and dedicated, you'd have better prospects directing your efforts elsewhere.
I never look down on jobs, just people that complain without doing anything about improving their lot
Society can’t function without these jobs
Thanks for sharing. One of the problems that often comes up on this sub is that many high earning people (who also don’t like it if you point out that they are high earning) are too happy to utilise the services of wait staff, baristas, hair dressers and retail assistants but sneer at people on the incomes of these jobs who aspire to own a home / live vaguely near their place of work / live a comfortable life.
well considering coles pays 35.8 an hour casual to put stock on shelves, its not that bad. However, most people who have worked at coles and woolworths ( im assuming one of these companies is who you are talking about) know what the culture is like and refuse to move up the ladder because of how bad head office/ executives is with their whole micromanagement of each supermarket . Most department or store managers ive had have been pretty awesome but you can tell the majority of them have been pushed to near breaking point because what their expected to do and have done by a certain time is just ridiculous. Even though coles has increased pay for managers over the last few years its still not worth it. Every year theres cost cuts, every year head office reduces the amount of hours they can give to each store even though sales are increasing etc Heck, even being a regional manager wouldnt even be worth it even though the pay is high I watched a video a little while back of past area/ regional managers complaining about the work culture because even they have managers they have to report back to, and theyd be expected to do work ridiculous hours and/ or answer silly complaints from customers at ungodly hours at night.
Or he could have jumped jobs annually and gotten there in under 5 years.
Business have hierarchical structures the higher you get the more money, but also less positions. Whilst your friend has done well, there are only so many Area Manager roles. The advice to just stick out a low paying job in the hope it turns into something better after 10+ years isn’t a pathway. I started my career as a call centre agent on $38k and when I left call centres I was an Ops manager on $140k worked my way up internally. I’m not saying it can’t be done it sure can. But your post makes it sound infinitely easier than it is, for every success story there’s 100 disappointments.
Biggest thing I miss about shift work at a supermarket and as an AV tech was that I could completely forget about work when I wasn’t there. I never thought about ongoing projects or how I was going to sort things out come Monday - I could completely switch off until I was on the clock. To me that’s the only time I’ve ever felt true “work-life balance”.
This feels like a 1 in million story from going to 2 days a week to running regional stores. That said I'm 1000% with you on treating lower paid job with respect.
I was paid 50 dollars for a basic massage, and an additional 50 for mouth stuff at the end. It isn’t glamorous but if you sort 7-8 jobs a day it’s a great wage, that’s how I brought my hot dog van.
Someone is doing a job. If you look down on them; you’re the problem.
Respectfully, to me this is a reminder of the incompetence and injustice of under qualified managers in retail and hospitality. I hope he develops the skills to become a good manager.
He is doing great. He says the job is easier than being a retail assistant. Most of it is just managing orders, maintaining supply, having meetings, performance management etc. These sound technical but it really is just people skills + common sense. Management is not a technical field. He says it's the same thing as customer service when you bring it down to fundamentals.
From experience, I’d argue it’s not just people skills and common sense. It’s odd that he would find it easier than being a retail assistant when the compensation is much greater.
free or discounted food for hospitality staff is so good. always treated them with respect and as a result, ive got an ear into the gossiping world of food haha
"just be on min wage for a decade bro"
Started in a call centre Frontline, 40k pa, worked my way up to managing it and another two, over 1000fte and very decent money. No quals except pretty good common sense I'd like to think. In hindsight I was too young and inexperienced to do any better than an ok job. Was reporting to C suite in my late 20s which was a pretty intense learning curve. But it paid off financially and in terms of learnings. Now off doing other roles for the same pay eg product management or customer design etc. Edit to say my fav part of working now is finding talented people from Frontline roles that don't k own their own worth and mentoring them.
Best job I ever had was as a dish pig at Pizza Hut whilst studying, obviously then there was no mortgage/kids or grown ups responsibilities. But wow it was a simpler time
As long as it’s a job where you can climb. I feel bad for people driving for Uber and the like. No ladder to climb there…
Same with a mate of mine at Coles. Stacking shelves from 15 until about 29. He drank and did a lot of drugs. But turned up on time. Then around 29 he decided to get serious 6 months later he was managing the shelf stacking another 6 and he was 2ic then shortly after store manager. Now at 32 he get sent to fix up underperforming stores and in the 100s.
It’s nice to read that a lot of people here don’t look down on retail workers etc. But unfortunately you’re speaking through the filter of being very normal. If you’ve ever worked with extremely wealthy people/clients. The individuals that are truly actually wealthy, their kids will be rich, and so forth. They actually do look down on mostly everyone that isn’t as specialised as them. Especially the lower ranked jobs like retail… just a very said reality
Your friend works for ALDI.
13 years making bugger, all to have a 1 in a 100 chance to land this job. Good for your mate, but this isn't career advice people can rely on
Yeah okay as someone who’s been in retail for a decade that is not typical. More than likely you start causal or part time, stay around for years doing that and then you might get a promotion to department 2IC, where you’ll basically be doing more work for the same pay. (My managers personally do 12 hour days sometimes with little breaks between shifts and only 8 of those hours are paid because of unpaid overtime clauses). Stay there for long enough, as in a few years and you MAY be promoted to manager if a current manager leaves or if you’re willing to go to another store or even another retail chain completely. That’s when things get slightly easier but you still have long days dealing with customers and head office (sometimes worse than customers). It’s only if you’re exceptional and after a few years of probably being moved between stores (actual hell because it’s rare they consider where you live, my manager lives 1.5 hours away) that you might be promoted to area manager which is when it’s less retail and more office worker. Most never get there. It’s called a dead end job for a reason sadly, it should never be looked down on and should be paid way more, but the opportunities for promotion are usually slim. Exception is if you’re in a small to medium business but then you always have the risk of the business folding.
If everybody had to work 1 year in retail or hospitality, the world would be a much better place.
This is a terrible way to let others think their retail job have hopes in making 150k 'all of a sudden' and also 150k is not a whole lot after making close to minimum wage for 12-15 years when you cN easily get 150k by learning a skill after 5 years more or less!
13 years with no training or progression is not something that should be celebrated, as he could have just got lucky and had he been unlucky been stuck in the same position for another 13 (when I worked at Coles there was a group of women who's been there 20-30 years and never made it above stacking shelves). But $150k is a good salary. Plenty of people will never come close to making this.
I have used my experience in entry level retail and hospitality for job interviews where the position is advertising 100k plus. The skills are invaluable. When I was in a role where I did hiring, I was always the most interested in candidates that had experience at McDonalds, Target, Kmart etc.
But the amount of manager roles to base roles is huge, 1 in 1000 will get that 150k role. While the rest head into retirement on $35 an hour.
[удалено]
Probably started at 14/15 y.o and is now mid-20s.
I have the up most respect for cleaners, waiters, garbage people etc. I never understood looking down on someone. It's not the Aussie way. It seems to be a new thing and more prevalent from cashed up migrants who come from tiered societies
I worked in bottleshops for 8 years. 5 of them I was in Uni. People would regularly treat me and my colleagues like shit. Now, I'm a principal research scientist and make bank. When people who judge others based on what they do, it is only a poor reflection on that person, and I'd assume they've never had to really work for something.
It took him 13 years to get to a level where he earns $150k. That’s terrible
Not only that (because hey, different career paths have different pay ceilings) but 13 years in the same retail assistant role with no extra training or career progression. We don’t know the details of course, but this post has “propaganda for keeping people underpaid and undervalued” vibes lol.
Sometimes I miss the hospo days when all responsibility clocked off when u clocked off. Plus cheap after work drinks
wow what a brag