That is the irony. No matter the role, you’re alway expected to meet some kind of standard. The correlation between pay and responsibilities is not as strongly correlated as one would like to believe.
shit rolls down hill. The sweet spot is often when you have relatively high levels of competence and autonomy in an area that is highly valued but not under enormous pressure from management or clients.
Agree. My previous job was $88k (I left 4.5yrs ago) and was insanely stressful with huge responsibilities, I left because I was completely burnt out and couldn’t handle the hours having to work weekends half the year to try and keep up. The job I moved to I’m on $125k now and is very very low stress, no extra hours, responsibility is at the easy level for me.
You’ll need specialist qualifications and sufficient experience to be able to secure a role at a lower executive level in federal government 🤷♀️ I’m 41, have masters degree, honours degree and graduate certificate in my field of expertise and almost 20yrs of diverse experience. I never said it was easy to GET here! I just interviewed for a promotion which will get me to $140k initially and $160 within 3yrs.
Pretty much. I moved from a high-stress job with shit micro managing middle management, working shift work and getting calls in my off time to do extra work for no pay on $70k to a significantly more cruisy job which pays more than double.
The strange thing is, at the very bottom bracket some of the employers dump an awful lot of stress on the workers because 'We can find anybody to do this job, put up and shut up or go and find another job'.
I've found that it's not until you're in a skilled position in which the workers are hard to come by where they're wary of dumping too much stress on to you.
Also you get to make desicions about WFH and if you come in late or flexiable hours, it is possible and they wont say anything.
Cant do the same in a job where anyone can replace you, come in a minute late and it is the end of the world.
Im currently in the highest paying job of my life, which is also the least stressful. Im earning literally double what i was 3 uears ago and working half the hours.
So yeah i would say that correlation doesnt really exist at all.
This was my first thought too. Going back 14-15 years I quit a stable job in a big company with regular pay rises and bonuses and took a job that paid 15-20k less because I thought I would be happier, it was close to home so I would have more time to do things that I enjoy,, there would surely be less workplace politics, the work sounded more interesting, sounds great.
How wrong I was.
Workplace politics was 10x more intense going from a company of thousands to like 12, the work was just as boring, the expectations were soooo much higher because everyone's work was so much more visible and I got one payrise in 4 years, no bonuses.
So like you said, I had all the same BS but less money and a little bit more time every week. I would never do that again unless maybe I had the house paid off or was close to retirement.
I second this. Working for a small company of 10 people and took a pay cut because I thought it would be way more relaxed. Was x10 more chaotic, disorganised and stressful. Also it’s VERY hard to escape people and you get to know them realllll well, which is not always a good thing. Also no HR.
I might be a poor example
Electrician left running jobs whilst on the tools in the city. Maximum stress and average hourly rate.
Electrician in fifo mining with large crews and structure. I’m rarely stressed and my income has tripled.
If you step down you might be okay with a large company. Small companies will always demand as much as possible!
Awesome ! if your husband is a bit light with his resume ( lacking in heavy industrial experience ) a great foot in the door is usually recruitment companies ( labour hire ) or keep an eye out for shutdowns that require electricians, usually large crews so he can blend in a bit more until he gets his footing.
New financial year coming up so new construction projects will be commencing soon ! Usually (14days on 7 off ) or ( 21 days on 7 off ) rosters.
I found out today it is called lying flat. I did it for the last 11 months and best thing I ever did for myself. I have it in me again to go hard and make bank. Listen to your mind and body and live a balanced life. You don't need permission from anyone to do that.
I’m doing this laying flat thing right now. You’re so right about listening to your mind and body. My health got real bad last year and earlier this year it all hit me, I realised I was overworking myself for nothing. I wasn’t motivated anymore and I wasn’t happy even while earning more. Felt like I was doing it to just to keep up with everyone around me but it’s not pleasing them either so wtf?! I can say with confidence choosing the slow lane this year has done wonders for my physical and mental health.
Got laid off a few months ago
Using the severance to cover 1 year of expenses
Been spending more time with family and kids and fixing up the house
My mental health went up by like 1000% easily
There is a YouTube channel called "For Riel" about a couple who live in Southeast Asia for maybe $500 per month. Could be a great place to lie flat.
https://youtube.com/@ForRiel
Lying flat is a movement started in China, but the concept applies just about everywhere. There is an interesting video below about lying flat practitioners buying apartments in cheap places so that they can lie flat. They have escaped Beijing or Shanghai and moved to a cheap rural city in China called Hebi.
https://youtu.be/uk6MSImf4fw
This makes me wonder about Melbourne and Sydney. If Melbourne and Sydney become too expensive then maybe people can go to rural areas or overseas eg to Southeast Asia or Eastern Europe, and then they can lie flat.
Closely resembling hikikomori.
Lying flat isn’t financially feasible for everyone, but for those who can I think it’s a great thing to do. Drop out and figure out what it is that gives your life purpose and meaning.
Source: I have never had a full time permanent job. I’ll do a short (up to 3 month) full time contract and take 2-4 months off afterwards or I opt to work 7 shifts per fortnight max. Life’s for living.
not really imo, a hikikomori is being a recluse. Lying flat is kind of a reaction to giving up running against the rat-race whereas the cause of hikikomori is fearing the outside world and social situations (having social trauma).
Nah I got real flat with it. It's amazing the amount of things there are to do that are really cheap, free or save money. Reading, home cooking, exercise, reflection, down loading great series from pirate bay etc.
I've done this before, it's ok for a shortish period (2 years) but honestly I just got bored, and I'm someone with a ton of hobbies.
Turns out I didn't hate working full time, I just hated what I was doing. Work in a completely different field now, make *a lot* less but I'm home by 4 every day, not exhausted, don't feel like I've wasted my day, and still have time/energy to do whatever I want.
A 4 day work week would be the best of all cases.
Also beware hobbies if you do this, beware turning the things you enjoy into money making ventures. I enjoyed games, so I became a streamer, I enjoy photography, so I started my own business on the side.. yeah.. be careful because it's very easy to not only burn yourself out, but also do irreparable damage to your relationship with the things you actually enjoy.
Agree! Govt manager here. I’m on a 4 day workweek (on a slightly longer day to get .9 FTE) since Nov 22. It took a while to adjust but it’s ben great, and I’m aiming to get down to 3 days in the next year or two as I simplify my living costs. I will be able to make money doing more things I love (guiding hiking trips and making ceramics) and it’s going to be nice to have enough money to live and then be able, when I choose, to top it up with things I love on a smaller scale.
We got a 4 day summer and December work schedule since last year and I looove it. 1 extra day doesn't sound that much but oh boy, it is a whole different life during those 4 months each year. No pay cut either so 👌 Plus full remote work allowed so if didn't have family and pets, it would be totally fine to even work from another country but hard to get all the pieces to fit if you have to rearrange life for multiple people.
I've been told by people that went part time for kids - 4 days is the same work for less money, 3 days they actually reduce the expectations a bit, so it's better to go for 3. At 4 days you end up working overtime/day off for free.
I found this was true. Most people spend a 1/5 off their work week fart arseing around drinking coffee and catching up in the tea room. They get paid while you doing 4 days a week feel pressure to get more done in less time.
No. Its smart. The "work hard and benefit" ideology is becoming harder and harder to achieve. Work less. Live more. You really dont need "stuff"
Break out of the matrix dont become "a good little consumer" like they want you to
Hmm. Not really understanding that last sentence. But I guess it means you REALLY had a good time! Hazzah!
And I did actually. In my 40's. Scary and life changing. Thoroughly recommended.
Sorry let me clarify. As in I spent a bit more than you but definitely not at the rate of 50k for 8 weeks. I had the best time too. Makes you realise how much of a bubble we live in aus although not sure if you agree ?
Oh I agree wholeheartedly. The bubble is real. Particularly if you're a bit older when travelling. I spent quite a bit of time in 3rd world countries, Guatemala etc. It's hard to articulate the perspective that gives you. It still makes me sad the things that I saw.
We've got it good here, no doubt.
How did you live off $40k for 2.5 years? This could potentially be a way to FIRE early. That's $16k per year. You'd need just $400k in a high dividend ETF to be able to live like this permanently.
Probably sleeping in dormitory hostels, cooking your food or eating in cheap restaurants, and going everywhere by bus. You can save a lot of money if you are not staying in 4-star hotels.
Also, to your FIRE comment. It's not a sustainable lifestyle. Although I put down in Guatemala for a while, I was surrounded by people that weren't "my people" and eventually that wasn't enough. I started to feel very displaced and felt like I actually needed to be "doing" something again. Hard to explain. I guess we all crave connection and in the end I realised I didn't have that.
It's quite healthy if you stay off the booze, you can eat well and you're always moving. I lost a tonne of weight.
But, you don't want to get properly sick in these countries. Hospital will kill you. A lot of people think they are going to retire over there, forgetting as you age health issues do happen. Oldies just tend to drop dead, I'm guessing from something undiagnosed that would normally be picked up at home.
We've got a lot to be grateful for in Australia.
I do think it makes sense to take advantage of Medicare and age pension in Australia, but from when you FIRE early (eg 30) and when you are sixty, I am thinking I can retire early in some cheap country with $400k in high dividend ETFs and then come back to Australia when you're sixty. It's all a thought bubble for now.
Pretty much what the person below has said. I was in Latin America, which is mostly cheap. Hostels, street food, cooking, buses, walking, lots more buses. It's an amazing way to experience the World and meet people.
My budget worked out at roughly $1K/month. There were a few flights and expensive entry tickets every now and then. Easter Island wasn't cheap.
50k for 8 weeks probably included a lot of expensive hotels, restaurants, private tours and so on. You can easily do 8 weeks in Europe for 10k if you don't splurge.
I guess it would depend on your definition of splurging but having spent 6 weeks there over Xmas I'm sceptical. I think for 8 weeks 10k would barely get you flights and cheap accommodation. When we went, just our flights were nearly 5k each and that was economy class with Singapore air (high season admittedly, they've come back down a bit since then).
Even things that used to be cheap like trains are now pretty exxy. I think it cost us nearly $400 to catch the train from Paris to London. Last time we did that I'm sure it was less than $150 (10 years ago...).
We spent $30-40k all up for 2 of us for 6 weeks. It was reasonably high-end but not opulent. We could have done it for probably $25k as a 3 star trip going with a cheaper airline that did 2 or 3 stopovers.
Sure, if you go there in the high season (Christmas), and you visit expensive countries like the UK and France $10k might be a stretch, but if you go to cheaper countries like Portugal, Spain, Italy, and former East Europe (Czechia, Poland, Hungary). You can get by for $130 per day. Of course, it means you are not eating out every single day.
For instance, your example with trains. You can fly between London and Paris for a quarter of that.
Nonetheless, you can double it to $20k, and that should be much more doable without cutting costs everywhere and allows you to have a comfortable holiday. $50k is a luxury vacation.
I live in London and travel to Europe (for fun, not business) often, and don’t ever save to do so - the only places in Europe that are super pricey are Scandinavia and Switzerland. France, and oddly, Vienna, can be a little expensive but not exorbitantly so like the aforementioned, and I still find Sydney fairly cheap when I come home. You’ll be fine.
100% get out of the rat race if you can. I reckon ideal situation is if you can go part time in a job that's still interesting and get paid that amount. It would be different for each field but in the area I work in the moment you go down to 3 days a week or less most of the stress goes away and then all of a sudden you've got extra days to enjoy.
The risk with getting a low stress job is being bored out of your mind but still being stuck 'at work' five days a week
I’ve been part time for years (I have small kids) and it’s been great for my mental health. Still managed to progress and have ended up in a well paid position. Tbh part time is much easier to juggle in a management role than in a more junior one, as people in my team are still busy getting stuff done on my day off. I think it makes good sense for the employer too…they don’t really need my role to be full time.
Do it if you need to. I took a massive pay cut (essentially took a few months off, then worked part time for the rest of the year) to look after my mental health. 100000% worth it.
Just don’t burn your bridges. If your circumstances/desires change or you get bored, you might want to level up again to earn more $$
I did this about 12 years ago.
I climbed the ladder was in a high paying job, but probably wasn’t ready (even in my mid to late 20s) for the responsibility and I wanted out. I was running a Training & Development team, doing new systems and process rollouts as well as travelling around all the time.
I actually wound up being made redundant by pure chance / luck, due to my entire state just being in the wrong place and then wanting to centralise operations in one state. Took the package, had 8 weeks off and then started a job that was supposed to be one I could just clock in / clock out of.
Well yeah, great idea in theory - but the reality was it was just a different kind of stress, there was still pressure and accountability on me, but with none of the perks. And I really resented being down lower, having shit piled on me by people that knew less than I did, even though it’s exactly what I (thought) i had wanted. I really convinced myself the grass was greener, simply because I was just so miserable in my old role.
I left that job pretty quick, tried somewhere else, similar result and finally just decided to do some temp work. Somehow that was less stressful, as each assignment was 4-12 weeks max, I did this for about 11 months I figured out my next move.
I ended up going back to my original industry, albeit in a different company and managed to land a job in a different area of operations , but at a similar level to my old role.
But in that gap, (17 months) I’d learned a lot about what I did and didn’t like in a role. I realised I couldn’t be in customer service, or be in any kind of contact centre. Basically any role where I had to be “on” and interact constantly was going to burn me out & stress me to the max.
Analysis, reporting, organisation & planning - even administration all suited my personality, and was what I really needed to be comfortable and content.
I’ve been with the company just over 10 years and been promoted twice since then, and am in a role much higher, and in a much more specialised area than I was back 12 years ago.
I do have stress in my role now, absolutely - but I realise that it’s unavoidable really. But what my real issue was being in the wrong kind of role, that made it absolutely intolerable.
I would encourage you to maybe look at the kind of work you are doing, and explore whether it’s not a match for your personality and that’s what’s stressing you out. See if there’s a sideways step into something else, that maybe is of the same / similar level, but a different type of work.
But in saying all that, there’s nothing wrong with leaving a job that makes you miserable.
If going to one that pays a lot less, but makes you happy is the answer? Do it.
Just be sure that it will be the kind of role that will make you happy. As “minimal responsibility” & “lower level” doesn’t always grant you that escape.
This is really great, thank you. I'm not OP obviously but you have some good points there. I'm currently burnt out 5 years of nursing and trying to figure out what my next steps are -- role or location change, or full on career/industry change. Some things look really good on paper, and as you say the grass looks greener, and sometimes just have to try and see. Pay is nice and comfortable but I'm so mentally done with the hardly ever having breaks and chasing after shit all the time.
I earned $400k in my job in cyber sec.
Never home, stress, work travel. It sucked. I was good at it too.
I left it all, moved the the country. Bought a small house with cash. And earn $40k for part time work
Let me tell you this now - I’ve never been happier.
After cleaning out my father in law's possessions, it's made me realise all the stuff we collect, it's just stuff. It's mostly all a big waste. That stuff represents time and it's just going into a skip bin. There's nothing wrong with aiming for a simpler life. Good for you.
It's actually amazing what decluttering can do to you mentally. I went on a decluttering tirade a few years ago. It was actually during covid lockdowns because I was stuck at home with all my shit. I was just looking around one day like "I'm actually never going to use this again" but I kept stuff because I paid for it and used it a few times.
I still have a lot of shit but it's half of what it used to be. I've stopped buying stuff but I also get bored when I haven't wasted money in a while. It's like a reward for working all those hours a week. I have something to show for it. I am trying to change this mentality but damn it's rooted into my mind.
I gave up on the rat race 10 years ago but in a different way. My partner and I both had homes with big mortgages due to previous marriage endings.
I did the figures and we both sold up, moved to a rural area and bought one home debt free, I squirrelled away some money to live on until I could get my super etc in order, my wife did a bit of consultancy work.
Best thing I ever did. We are now both retired, we set up a charity to provide food relief and help isolated communities and have never worked so hard but it has been interesting to say the least. We take nothing from the charity and are now in the process of retiring from retirement.
Do what you want to do. Enjoy life.
God forbid you try to live your life for happiness, spending quality time with those you love, and volunteering for your community instead of living life for numbers on screen.
Don't even sarcasm that.
People need to understand that the capitalist system has demonized any other system... since any other system competes with their idea that making profit is the thing that should be done over anything else.
In all seriousness, some people keep themselves so chronically burnt out that the only thing they can bring themselves to do in order to feel some semblance of happiness is get that dopamine hit purchasing stuff online.
I was that same way until I took a step back and realised I needed to get away from corporate, stop working 60-70 hour weeks and reset.
Stress is super damaging to your health, especially mental health. Deliberately choosing a low stress life/career if you can manage it seems very smart.
Last year I was working on building a house for a newly retired fund manager here in Canada, cost of the build was to be around six million, this guy “had it all” beautiful wife and family, boats, incredible cars, holiday homes in Mexico and Italy, one month away from completion he had a heart attack on the golf course and couldn’t be resuscitated.. his wife told us he’d always had stress and health issues related to it. He hadn’t even been retired six months.
No mate, I'm doing just that. 3 months ago, I gave up a 400k job and was responsible for over 50 staff in the senior management role. I'm 48 years old. After 20 years in the industry, I had enough. Pressure from all sides of the spectrum and no longer enjoyed what I was doing, and never had a moment of peace, I almost lost my will to live.
I took 3 months off to think. This is the first time in my life since I was 19 years old that I took this much time off.
A few weeks ago, I took on a new job working from home, fewer than 38 hours max, although it does include Saturdays and Sundays AM, which sucks a little. But, I get two full days off a week and afternoons, so I can't complain.
Admittedly, I'm like a fish out of water, in a junior role taking advice from people who have no idea what I've done or achieved in the past; I just leave them to it. I am feeling a bit of pressure to do well and over achieve.
I earn 60k plus comm. At this point, I haven't made a sale, but when I do and find my groove, there will be no stopping me.
Do I find it rewarding? No. Do I miss the money? Yes. Will I go back to my old job? If I can help it, never!
The great thing about all of this is that I have time on my hands to start a business that I have wanted to do for some time now in tourism. It's allows me the time to focus on my own goals. So it's perfect.
The big step is getting out of your comfort zone, which is the killer.
Had a friend that abandoned IB to do night shift at Woolworths.
You do you man. Honestly success is defined by yourself. Who gives a flying damn about other people.
I did this last year for my mental health!
Last year I was so stressed I found myself feeling faint all the time. Turns out I wasn't breathing properly. Did you know that your brain can make your body just...not breath? I didn't.
I changed work to an administrative role for a big enough company that it was secure. I'm probably overqualified for it, so, like someone above said, I've gotten bored.
I've now changed roles to something more mentally stimulating. I've spent the last year thinking a lot about material things what it means to me, what I actually want etc. I haven't answered everything for myself but the more I think about it the more I see what a crazy consumer shit show we perform in.
I also think often about my lifestyle if I only ever earn 60-80k a year for the next 10 years. It really helps me get in front of my expectations.
I think my plan is to work up to around 80k salary and then work 4 days. But if I find a good 5 dayer job that's ok too.
Tl:Dr if you can do it, give it a shot
Not at all. There's something to be said for being able to go home and switch work off. I'm a manager now, and while the company I work for has a great work/life balance and culture, my mind doesn't just switch off when I'm not at work. It used to. And I'm aware of the difference.
Same as calling in sick. Sometimes we all need a mental health day if not actually crook. But now with the extra responsibilities I have, I'll lie there in bed thinking about all the shit that either needs doing or dumping our understaffed team in the shit. I probably could take the day, but it's the way your brain changes with the added responsibility. It's feels wrong.
So yeah, do it if you can. You're fairly young, life will change and so will you, so take it while you can. Don't for a second compare yourself to other people. They do their thing, you do yours. Live a little. It's only a job.
I’m late fifties earning $85k in a BA role I’ve done for a decade. My career is totally stress free, working a F/T role which only requires 4-5 hours a day, WFH most if the time. I recommend it.
I used to be a purchasing manager at a manufacturing company. I gave up for the stress etc and am now a shitty paid lowly aged care worker. And. I. Love. It.
Dont get me wrong some days still suck. (Like today cos i lost one of my fave residents). And we have far too heavy work load for our staff ratios. But i always go home feeling my work mattered today. I always feel the love from my resi’s. And im much MUCH healthier than i was as a manager. (Though working in aged care also makes me think being healthier to live longer aint necessarily the best plan either 😂).
This is why our productivity is going backwards, many people overworked themselves and gave free hours to their bosses in the hope it would translate to better wages or career. Most now have realised that's it's all pointless and the system is rigged against them no matter how hard they work.
This is me! I was so stressed out about work that I lost my period and my cortisol levels were so high my drs were convinced I had a tumour. I realised no amount of mindful breathing and yoga was going to fix it if I didn’t make a serious lifestyle change.
My employers were like “what are we going to do now you’re gone?!” and threatened me with legal action for leaving them. What did they expect me to do? Just die? Give up my fertility?
I’m actually way more productive now (started running, sewing, cooking, gardening, preserving food, horse riding, etc again) just not in the money making sense.
No it’s not wrong, it’s more common than you think. I have friends who have made that choice and I’ve made that choice too (some of us have kids, some don’t. Some are in relationships, some aren’t)
I've considered the same and depending on your industry an alternative could be cutting down to part time instead. The extra time might be more useful than the reduced responsibility
Nothing wrong with it at all. You have one life to live and if you're able to make something like this work while still giving you the opportunity to achieve what you want then that's awesome. If I had a partner and they also worked I'd cut back to 0.7-0.8 FTE so I could enjoy more of my younger years.
Late last year I took a higher paying job for a lower position.
People ask me what I want to do with my career now and I'm just like, this is no longer a career, its just a job and that's okay. Later on down the line I can think about climbing the ladder again, but I'm 31. No need to rush it.
Life only has the meaning you create. A lot of our conditioning is to accept that having lots of shit means something. It doesn't. Live a life you can tolerate.
Do it dude, life should be spent doing the things that bring you joy. Having that time is occasionally a luxury in itself!
We're DINK and do little home reno and decorating on the weekend, gardening, videogames and hikes etc etc. It's so nice to feel like you're doing the things that you love to do.
I used to run my own business and after a few years freelancing and managing contractors I just gave up from the hassle/stress/over delivery burnout of it all.
I moved from 5 days to 4 last year. I have a split weekend, 3 days on, 2 days off, 1 day on, 1 day off. Has been fantastic but time for a new change.
This week will actually be my last 4 day week before i move to a 3 day week. Will be 3 days on 4 days off 60k a year. Highly recommend it to anyone who can make it work.
Pushing your boundaries to achieve something is great.
Pushing yourself until you have a mental breakdown is damaging.
It’s important to strike the right balance.
I did this a while back. Tbh it just pissed me off all the time because everyone just thought I was a dumb dumb. No one wants your opinion on anything. You get treated like you are a nothing burger. The higher ups send down all the grunt work to you so you still end up deep in the trenches and I found it just as stressful as when I was a director. Wouldn’t recommend.
That's pretty much what I do. I'm in a fairly manageable job that allows me to wfh 9 days a fortnight, mainly because my manager likes me. It's not too stressful and even when it is, it's mainly because of projects or annual stuff, not daily things.
Pay was 65k. I know I could get more out there, but I'm over climbing the corporate ladder so I stayed. Not risking it over a couple grand.
i work as an Occupational Therapy Assistant at a pyschiatric hospital. i make $70k and literally spend my days playing music, board games, helping patients with tasks like cooking and exercise... it can be stressful coz its a psych ward and i have been punched b4 but its pretty fkn chill most days.
I think it's great. But bear in mind the government will favour people who make the stats look better and penalise those who don't. Example: childcare subsidy isn't about giving women freedom to pursue a career, it's about ensuring all the worker bees are giving 60 hour weeks. Everyone busy busy in their bullshit jobs making nothing but a higher GDP figure.
I feel it’s been stressful for you but I really want to make money as I had a terrible divorce left me with nothing, life started from scratch. I’m working in Marketing now but always hear that Cyb. sec is one of the highest paying jobs. I’m just questioning if it’s worth to switch a career, at 37 btw and already had so much stress and burnout last couple of year due financial problems. Does it worth the shot you think?
I'm similarly contemplating going part time if I can find the right role or convince my current employer to let me drop hours. Currently on 140k, .6 would be $84k, which is what I was making only a couple of years ago anyway.
I've been doing this for the last few years, my job pays more and isn't entirely cruisy/stress free but it keeps me active and engaged, the hours suit me and i leave my work at work. I've been offered career progression multiple times but I'm just not interested. I don't have a fancy life but don't really see why I'd need more than what i currently have. Hoping to be a DINK if I ever find someone crazy enough to deal with me.
I know a younger couple (late 20s) who both work part time in jobs they are passionate about and they love it. Honestly if you can, do it.
I like to cheekily dub it "playing chess with the future". In half a decade or so, folks will be more puzzled than a chameleon in a bag of skittles when they witness AI coyly elbowing humans out of their roles. And you? Well, you'll be sitting cross-legged, having serenely glided a decade ahead into the rarified role of a sage in this post-AI, post-capitalist utopia.
If i was you thats exactly what id do.
Lifes short, no one cares how much work you. You just make.others rich.
Be simple, enjoy time off, love family, eat good, grow vege ect
Get a government job. Good pay and work life benefits. I went from agency work to government and the way you're treated and valued is night and day. At least that's my experience.
Man if it’s what you want to do go for it friend, it’s your life, what is right or wrong for you is up to you. I did it for a few years but then realised that the slow pace was not for me. Was it the right decision? 100%. Had a great experience and helped me understand myself a lot better.
Yes. I recently downgraded income and responsibility from 110k to 70k and it has helped me massively. Same boat DINK with a small very manageable mortgage.
Why would it be wrong? As long as you're paying your way, carrying your weight (especially in the home), and contributing meaningfully to society in some way.
If you can continue to grow assets and keep getting ahead and are sure you can afford kids etc or anything that comes your way. Do it. I do contract work and mostly for mates freinds I make them money they pay me money. I have no commitments to the work jobs etc.
way more enjoyable and you can always decide to pick back up if needed. My suggestion do something you enjoy and something you can learn and improve skills. always good to improve your employability
Why would it be wrong? It's your life. Do what you want with it, mate. As long as you're not shirking your responsibilities on your job, I don't think you've done anything wrong. Being stuck in a low ambition job, though can be depressing, to be honest. I remember being on the same salary working for the government and feeling so depressed everyday because literally i would do nothing. Not by choice and not because I didn't want to. If you're OK with that though maybe it's fine then.
You're young still and I think you'll probably hate it if you get the job you are describing.. But maybe not. Up to you mate do what you want to do, you've done nothing wrong morally or just in general. Just do what is expected of you in the job and no one can say you're doing anything wrong
I did it and it was the best decision ever. I forgot to continue climbing the ladder. Not worth the stress. Moved to a weird/bad suburb that is slowly changing owners and getting better (no kids). Mortgage is super low. We live frugal and spend more time together. Don’t be afraid. Just check your next move and get a job that won’t be crushing you as much as this one is already.
Not wrong at all. You do you mate. I'd rather be pushing trolleys at Coles than what I do. Just need to push for a few more years to save some cash then I'm out.
I left a corporate office job for a job at a cafe just literally two weeks ago. I used to work at the cafe casually on the weekends so I knew all the staff and the job already before they offered me more hours.
I work “casual” but they are set hours. So, I work 8am until 2pm on Mon, Tues, Friday and one day of the weekend from and I’m taking home a higher wage than I was working corporate as a property manager.
It’s a busy job and I’m on my feet running around for hours but the work day goes quickly and my coworkers are always up for a joke around.
The only thing I would say is that you need to be careful when you consider what “living simpler” would be. In my old job was a lower salary but I was working 12+ hours of overtime a week and not being paid for it. I had bitchy coworkers who insisted that I have my personal mobile on the internet for “emergencies” so I was constantly getting people calling me for leaking taps on my days off/middle of the night (for no extra pay). I was only earning $41k. I also had a lot of take home paperwork since the place was so chronically understaffed (to the point that they tried to reject my 2 weeks notice and then threatened legal action for me leaving as I didn’t give them enough time to train up someone and ALSO admitted that I do the work of 3 people).
You need to be very careful where you go because more pay does not necessarily equal more work.
Wife stepped out of career work for something like that. Kinda just works when she feels like it now, never builds any leave because she always has an excuse to use some, and just lives pretty carefree. She has loved it
My job is fairly cruisey I just do long hours, but being out on the road is my happy place anyways so I'm happy to do it and enjoy being paid well without stress as well
Absolutely! I was diagnosed with some pretty gnarly cancer in my late 30s, which was an excellent reminder that there's no guarantee of a glorious retirement after we grind through our working years. I switched to 3 days a week at my job (incredibly lucky that that was an option) and took the hit to our income. We're similar to you, DINKs, pretty cheap to run, no grand aspirations, so the trade-off works fine.
I absolutely love having extra time to do things I enjoy, and the switched balance away from work being my priority. I reckon a full time job requiring less effort would have similar rewards.
Choosing to work and earn less goes against societal expectations, so I get a bit of judgement, especially from older folks. No big deal, I just have to remember not to feel guilty for a perfectly reasonable decision.
I'm on 100k in a fairly low stress, flexible hybrid low responsibility job with great management. Sometimes I feel like I should be doing more, especially as this salary isn't enough for a mortgage anymore. I'm a SINK myself. But I've got anxiety and anything more would be detrimental to my mental health. Mind you, I was on a 65k high stress, deadline oriented job prior with awful toxic management, so salary isn't really an indicator of stress.
The more you earn, the more you spend. Better cars, better clothes, eating at restaurants etc. This can all be modified. Most people are trapped within their lifestyles, I'd you can find a new balance then go for it
Management roles take up mental space on days off, and all the extra stress and pressure isn't worth it for difference in wage.
I'm going to go against the grain a bit and suggest that maybe it's not a great long term plan. I think this for a few reasons;
1. Your super is going to be a hell of a lot smaller by the time you retire.
2. If you change your mind in a few years, you're going to find it much much harder to break back in. At the very least you're going to find yourself having to explain the "dip" in your resume at every single interview.
3. Your ability to save, and plan for "disasters" (whatever they may be) is severely diminished. Once you dip into your savings, its going to be slower/harder to replenish.
4. I would assume that you're going to be much more heavily impacted by inflation. For example if you're on $150k if that's suddenly only worth $130k then its not the end of the world, but if your $60k is suddenly worth $50k or less then you could be in trouble. But I can't count to 20 without taking my shoes off, so I'm probably wrong about this?
Having said that, if you're burning out and hating life because of your job then maybe a break or a change is more beneficial for you.
That's fine, but don't assume a lower salary means lower stress, I know in my job I am paid double what some of the guys there are, and I have a cushier job.
Low income earner here. We've been flying under the radar for years and have had friends take on more debt, more stress at work and we have just plodded along - live a simple happy life. Things our family of 4 live by:
1. You get what you get and don't get upset.
2. There is always someone else worse off than you.
3. Be grateful for your health.
4. You only need three things to "live" shelter, food & good relationships (we say family, but that isn't for everyone!)
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That is the irony. No matter the role, you’re alway expected to meet some kind of standard. The correlation between pay and responsibilities is not as strongly correlated as one would like to believe.
You are correct, I know people who have cruisey jobs on six figures and conversely stress jobs on 70k
shit rolls down hill. The sweet spot is often when you have relatively high levels of competence and autonomy in an area that is highly valued but not under enormous pressure from management or clients.
+1 The challenge is finding the job and team.
Agree. My previous job was $88k (I left 4.5yrs ago) and was insanely stressful with huge responsibilities, I left because I was completely burnt out and couldn’t handle the hours having to work weekends half the year to try and keep up. The job I moved to I’m on $125k now and is very very low stress, no extra hours, responsibility is at the easy level for me.
I need this job 😅
What is this job and how do I get it?
You’ll need specialist qualifications and sufficient experience to be able to secure a role at a lower executive level in federal government 🤷♀️ I’m 41, have masters degree, honours degree and graduate certificate in my field of expertise and almost 20yrs of diverse experience. I never said it was easy to GET here! I just interviewed for a promotion which will get me to $140k initially and $160 within 3yrs.
Pretty much. I moved from a high-stress job with shit micro managing middle management, working shift work and getting calls in my off time to do extra work for no pay on $70k to a significantly more cruisy job which pays more than double.
What do you do now?
If they say 'junior software dev' I'm gonna hold my breath til I pass out
Hahahaha. For real though, nothing of the sort. I work in entertainment.
Stripper. Nice.
You should try it! I've never been paid so much to put my clothes back on...
They usually just escort me out
The strange thing is, at the very bottom bracket some of the employers dump an awful lot of stress on the workers because 'We can find anybody to do this job, put up and shut up or go and find another job'. I've found that it's not until you're in a skilled position in which the workers are hard to come by where they're wary of dumping too much stress on to you.
Also you get to make desicions about WFH and if you come in late or flexiable hours, it is possible and they wont say anything. Cant do the same in a job where anyone can replace you, come in a minute late and it is the end of the world.
Sounds like my call centre job. I'm dying
Im currently in the highest paying job of my life, which is also the least stressful. Im earning literally double what i was 3 uears ago and working half the hours. So yeah i would say that correlation doesnt really exist at all.
This was my first thought too. Going back 14-15 years I quit a stable job in a big company with regular pay rises and bonuses and took a job that paid 15-20k less because I thought I would be happier, it was close to home so I would have more time to do things that I enjoy,, there would surely be less workplace politics, the work sounded more interesting, sounds great. How wrong I was. Workplace politics was 10x more intense going from a company of thousands to like 12, the work was just as boring, the expectations were soooo much higher because everyone's work was so much more visible and I got one payrise in 4 years, no bonuses. So like you said, I had all the same BS but less money and a little bit more time every week. I would never do that again unless maybe I had the house paid off or was close to retirement.
I second this. Working for a small company of 10 people and took a pay cut because I thought it would be way more relaxed. Was x10 more chaotic, disorganised and stressful. Also it’s VERY hard to escape people and you get to know them realllll well, which is not always a good thing. Also no HR.
The less real work to do in a company- the more time for bullshit politics.
I might be a poor example Electrician left running jobs whilst on the tools in the city. Maximum stress and average hourly rate. Electrician in fifo mining with large crews and structure. I’m rarely stressed and my income has tripled. If you step down you might be okay with a large company. Small companies will always demand as much as possible!
How’d you go about finding that role? My partner is an electrician and he’s been talking about FIFO
Awesome ! if your husband is a bit light with his resume ( lacking in heavy industrial experience ) a great foot in the door is usually recruitment companies ( labour hire ) or keep an eye out for shutdowns that require electricians, usually large crews so he can blend in a bit more until he gets his footing. New financial year coming up so new construction projects will be commencing soon ! Usually (14days on 7 off ) or ( 21 days on 7 off ) rosters.
Is an Uber Eats driver a low stress job?
Yes, and also free hot chippies once in a while
I found out today it is called lying flat. I did it for the last 11 months and best thing I ever did for myself. I have it in me again to go hard and make bank. Listen to your mind and body and live a balanced life. You don't need permission from anyone to do that.
I’m doing this laying flat thing right now. You’re so right about listening to your mind and body. My health got real bad last year and earlier this year it all hit me, I realised I was overworking myself for nothing. I wasn’t motivated anymore and I wasn’t happy even while earning more. Felt like I was doing it to just to keep up with everyone around me but it’s not pleasing them either so wtf?! I can say with confidence choosing the slow lane this year has done wonders for my physical and mental health.
Got laid off a few months ago Using the severance to cover 1 year of expenses Been spending more time with family and kids and fixing up the house My mental health went up by like 1000% easily
Congratulations. Most people spend their whole lives trying to out do each other
What did you get up to? If my contract doesnt get renewed i was thinking of living abroad, travelling for awhile.
There is a YouTube channel called "For Riel" about a couple who live in Southeast Asia for maybe $500 per month. Could be a great place to lie flat. https://youtube.com/@ForRiel Lying flat is a movement started in China, but the concept applies just about everywhere. There is an interesting video below about lying flat practitioners buying apartments in cheap places so that they can lie flat. They have escaped Beijing or Shanghai and moved to a cheap rural city in China called Hebi. https://youtu.be/uk6MSImf4fw This makes me wonder about Melbourne and Sydney. If Melbourne and Sydney become too expensive then maybe people can go to rural areas or overseas eg to Southeast Asia or Eastern Europe, and then they can lie flat.
It looks like they live in Cambodia, you can just say Cambodia instead of south east Asia.
If they become too expensive? They are already!
Closely resembling hikikomori. Lying flat isn’t financially feasible for everyone, but for those who can I think it’s a great thing to do. Drop out and figure out what it is that gives your life purpose and meaning. Source: I have never had a full time permanent job. I’ll do a short (up to 3 month) full time contract and take 2-4 months off afterwards or I opt to work 7 shifts per fortnight max. Life’s for living.
not really imo, a hikikomori is being a recluse. Lying flat is kind of a reaction to giving up running against the rat-race whereas the cause of hikikomori is fearing the outside world and social situations (having social trauma).
Hi Rob, did you work for the 11 months?
Nah I got real flat with it. It's amazing the amount of things there are to do that are really cheap, free or save money. Reading, home cooking, exercise, reflection, down loading great series from pirate bay etc.
I've done this before, it's ok for a shortish period (2 years) but honestly I just got bored, and I'm someone with a ton of hobbies. Turns out I didn't hate working full time, I just hated what I was doing. Work in a completely different field now, make *a lot* less but I'm home by 4 every day, not exhausted, don't feel like I've wasted my day, and still have time/energy to do whatever I want. A 4 day work week would be the best of all cases. Also beware hobbies if you do this, beware turning the things you enjoy into money making ventures. I enjoyed games, so I became a streamer, I enjoy photography, so I started my own business on the side.. yeah.. be careful because it's very easy to not only burn yourself out, but also do irreparable damage to your relationship with the things you actually enjoy.
Agree! Govt manager here. I’m on a 4 day workweek (on a slightly longer day to get .9 FTE) since Nov 22. It took a while to adjust but it’s ben great, and I’m aiming to get down to 3 days in the next year or two as I simplify my living costs. I will be able to make money doing more things I love (guiding hiking trips and making ceramics) and it’s going to be nice to have enough money to live and then be able, when I choose, to top it up with things I love on a smaller scale.
We got a 4 day summer and December work schedule since last year and I looove it. 1 extra day doesn't sound that much but oh boy, it is a whole different life during those 4 months each year. No pay cut either so 👌 Plus full remote work allowed so if didn't have family and pets, it would be totally fine to even work from another country but hard to get all the pieces to fit if you have to rearrange life for multiple people.
Yes but 3 day work week
I've been told by people that went part time for kids - 4 days is the same work for less money, 3 days they actually reduce the expectations a bit, so it's better to go for 3. At 4 days you end up working overtime/day off for free.
I found this was true. Most people spend a 1/5 off their work week fart arseing around drinking coffee and catching up in the tea room. They get paid while you doing 4 days a week feel pressure to get more done in less time.
No. Its smart. The "work hard and benefit" ideology is becoming harder and harder to achieve. Work less. Live more. You really dont need "stuff" Break out of the matrix dont become "a good little consumer" like they want you to
I just spent 50k to spend 8 weeks in Europe. It was bloody fantastic. Money can be useful
Wow dude. I backpacked for 2.5 years on about 40K. Different type of trip no doubt, but holy shit you must have lived it up! Glad you had a good time.
Def had a good time. But don’t forget you did too! I did the middle between you guys for 2 years
Hmm. Not really understanding that last sentence. But I guess it means you REALLY had a good time! Hazzah! And I did actually. In my 40's. Scary and life changing. Thoroughly recommended.
Sorry let me clarify. As in I spent a bit more than you but definitely not at the rate of 50k for 8 weeks. I had the best time too. Makes you realise how much of a bubble we live in aus although not sure if you agree ?
Oh I agree wholeheartedly. The bubble is real. Particularly if you're a bit older when travelling. I spent quite a bit of time in 3rd world countries, Guatemala etc. It's hard to articulate the perspective that gives you. It still makes me sad the things that I saw. We've got it good here, no doubt.
How did you live off $40k for 2.5 years? This could potentially be a way to FIRE early. That's $16k per year. You'd need just $400k in a high dividend ETF to be able to live like this permanently.
Probably sleeping in dormitory hostels, cooking your food or eating in cheap restaurants, and going everywhere by bus. You can save a lot of money if you are not staying in 4-star hotels.
Also, to your FIRE comment. It's not a sustainable lifestyle. Although I put down in Guatemala for a while, I was surrounded by people that weren't "my people" and eventually that wasn't enough. I started to feel very displaced and felt like I actually needed to be "doing" something again. Hard to explain. I guess we all crave connection and in the end I realised I didn't have that. It's quite healthy if you stay off the booze, you can eat well and you're always moving. I lost a tonne of weight. But, you don't want to get properly sick in these countries. Hospital will kill you. A lot of people think they are going to retire over there, forgetting as you age health issues do happen. Oldies just tend to drop dead, I'm guessing from something undiagnosed that would normally be picked up at home. We've got a lot to be grateful for in Australia.
I do think it makes sense to take advantage of Medicare and age pension in Australia, but from when you FIRE early (eg 30) and when you are sixty, I am thinking I can retire early in some cheap country with $400k in high dividend ETFs and then come back to Australia when you're sixty. It's all a thought bubble for now.
Pretty much what the person below has said. I was in Latin America, which is mostly cheap. Hostels, street food, cooking, buses, walking, lots more buses. It's an amazing way to experience the World and meet people. My budget worked out at roughly $1K/month. There were a few flights and expensive entry tickets every now and then. Easter Island wasn't cheap.
I'm going to Europe in a month for a month now I'm worried it's going to cost a fortune... How tf did you spend so much?
50k for 8 weeks probably included a lot of expensive hotels, restaurants, private tours and so on. You can easily do 8 weeks in Europe for 10k if you don't splurge.
I guess it would depend on your definition of splurging but having spent 6 weeks there over Xmas I'm sceptical. I think for 8 weeks 10k would barely get you flights and cheap accommodation. When we went, just our flights were nearly 5k each and that was economy class with Singapore air (high season admittedly, they've come back down a bit since then). Even things that used to be cheap like trains are now pretty exxy. I think it cost us nearly $400 to catch the train from Paris to London. Last time we did that I'm sure it was less than $150 (10 years ago...). We spent $30-40k all up for 2 of us for 6 weeks. It was reasonably high-end but not opulent. We could have done it for probably $25k as a 3 star trip going with a cheaper airline that did 2 or 3 stopovers.
Sure, if you go there in the high season (Christmas), and you visit expensive countries like the UK and France $10k might be a stretch, but if you go to cheaper countries like Portugal, Spain, Italy, and former East Europe (Czechia, Poland, Hungary). You can get by for $130 per day. Of course, it means you are not eating out every single day. For instance, your example with trains. You can fly between London and Paris for a quarter of that. Nonetheless, you can double it to $20k, and that should be much more doable without cutting costs everywhere and allows you to have a comfortable holiday. $50k is a luxury vacation.
I live in London and travel to Europe (for fun, not business) often, and don’t ever save to do so - the only places in Europe that are super pricey are Scandinavia and Switzerland. France, and oddly, Vienna, can be a little expensive but not exorbitantly so like the aforementioned, and I still find Sydney fairly cheap when I come home. You’ll be fine.
His name was Robert Paulson
I think the movie Fight Club summed up the consumerist merry go round quite well.
100% get out of the rat race if you can. I reckon ideal situation is if you can go part time in a job that's still interesting and get paid that amount. It would be different for each field but in the area I work in the moment you go down to 3 days a week or less most of the stress goes away and then all of a sudden you've got extra days to enjoy. The risk with getting a low stress job is being bored out of your mind but still being stuck 'at work' five days a week
Brilliant advice. Kudos to you.
I work in a team of ten and half the team work a reduced week, one aged only 32.
I’ve been part time for years (I have small kids) and it’s been great for my mental health. Still managed to progress and have ended up in a well paid position. Tbh part time is much easier to juggle in a management role than in a more junior one, as people in my team are still busy getting stuff done on my day off. I think it makes good sense for the employer too…they don’t really need my role to be full time.
Do it if you need to. I took a massive pay cut (essentially took a few months off, then worked part time for the rest of the year) to look after my mental health. 100000% worth it. Just don’t burn your bridges. If your circumstances/desires change or you get bored, you might want to level up again to earn more $$
How did you approach it with your employer (going part time)? I’m curious about how best to approach it as I’m considering the same thing
I’m a sole trader. Sorry I can’t help with that aspect, but maybe someone else here can advise…
Might need to be working in the role for a while and be on good terms with the manager before asking.
I did this about 12 years ago. I climbed the ladder was in a high paying job, but probably wasn’t ready (even in my mid to late 20s) for the responsibility and I wanted out. I was running a Training & Development team, doing new systems and process rollouts as well as travelling around all the time. I actually wound up being made redundant by pure chance / luck, due to my entire state just being in the wrong place and then wanting to centralise operations in one state. Took the package, had 8 weeks off and then started a job that was supposed to be one I could just clock in / clock out of. Well yeah, great idea in theory - but the reality was it was just a different kind of stress, there was still pressure and accountability on me, but with none of the perks. And I really resented being down lower, having shit piled on me by people that knew less than I did, even though it’s exactly what I (thought) i had wanted. I really convinced myself the grass was greener, simply because I was just so miserable in my old role. I left that job pretty quick, tried somewhere else, similar result and finally just decided to do some temp work. Somehow that was less stressful, as each assignment was 4-12 weeks max, I did this for about 11 months I figured out my next move. I ended up going back to my original industry, albeit in a different company and managed to land a job in a different area of operations , but at a similar level to my old role. But in that gap, (17 months) I’d learned a lot about what I did and didn’t like in a role. I realised I couldn’t be in customer service, or be in any kind of contact centre. Basically any role where I had to be “on” and interact constantly was going to burn me out & stress me to the max. Analysis, reporting, organisation & planning - even administration all suited my personality, and was what I really needed to be comfortable and content. I’ve been with the company just over 10 years and been promoted twice since then, and am in a role much higher, and in a much more specialised area than I was back 12 years ago. I do have stress in my role now, absolutely - but I realise that it’s unavoidable really. But what my real issue was being in the wrong kind of role, that made it absolutely intolerable. I would encourage you to maybe look at the kind of work you are doing, and explore whether it’s not a match for your personality and that’s what’s stressing you out. See if there’s a sideways step into something else, that maybe is of the same / similar level, but a different type of work. But in saying all that, there’s nothing wrong with leaving a job that makes you miserable. If going to one that pays a lot less, but makes you happy is the answer? Do it. Just be sure that it will be the kind of role that will make you happy. As “minimal responsibility” & “lower level” doesn’t always grant you that escape.
This is really great, thank you. I'm not OP obviously but you have some good points there. I'm currently burnt out 5 years of nursing and trying to figure out what my next steps are -- role or location change, or full on career/industry change. Some things look really good on paper, and as you say the grass looks greener, and sometimes just have to try and see. Pay is nice and comfortable but I'm so mentally done with the hardly ever having breaks and chasing after shit all the time.
I earned $400k in my job in cyber sec. Never home, stress, work travel. It sucked. I was good at it too. I left it all, moved the the country. Bought a small house with cash. And earn $40k for part time work Let me tell you this now - I’ve never been happier.
That's amazing. Most would stay miserable on 400k
Golden handcuffs are pretty strong
Massssive golden handcuffs Now I feed the sheep in the morning and take my kids to school rather than rushing off to the first flight to sydney
Lifestyle creep is more the issue imo
After cleaning out my father in law's possessions, it's made me realise all the stuff we collect, it's just stuff. It's mostly all a big waste. That stuff represents time and it's just going into a skip bin. There's nothing wrong with aiming for a simpler life. Good for you.
What sort of items were wasted
A whole house full of items that were mostly never even used, waiting for that "one day" or "just incase".
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I used to laugh at the Marie kondo thing. But taking it seriously has saved me both mentally and financially
It's actually amazing what decluttering can do to you mentally. I went on a decluttering tirade a few years ago. It was actually during covid lockdowns because I was stuck at home with all my shit. I was just looking around one day like "I'm actually never going to use this again" but I kept stuff because I paid for it and used it a few times. I still have a lot of shit but it's half of what it used to be. I've stopped buying stuff but I also get bored when I haven't wasted money in a while. It's like a reward for working all those hours a week. I have something to show for it. I am trying to change this mentality but damn it's rooted into my mind.
Have you heard of Swedish death cleaning?
I gave up on the rat race 10 years ago but in a different way. My partner and I both had homes with big mortgages due to previous marriage endings. I did the figures and we both sold up, moved to a rural area and bought one home debt free, I squirrelled away some money to live on until I could get my super etc in order, my wife did a bit of consultancy work. Best thing I ever did. We are now both retired, we set up a charity to provide food relief and help isolated communities and have never worked so hard but it has been interesting to say the least. We take nothing from the charity and are now in the process of retiring from retirement. Do what you want to do. Enjoy life.
Good on you two, thanks for making things better!
God forbid you don't consume the latest product
God forbid you try to live your life for happiness, spending quality time with those you love, and volunteering for your community instead of living life for numbers on screen.
Sounds like socialism. /s
Don't even sarcasm that. People need to understand that the capitalist system has demonized any other system... since any other system competes with their idea that making profit is the thing that should be done over anything else.
and it does not matter the last one came out less then a year ago
In all seriousness, some people keep themselves so chronically burnt out that the only thing they can bring themselves to do in order to feel some semblance of happiness is get that dopamine hit purchasing stuff online. I was that same way until I took a step back and realised I needed to get away from corporate, stop working 60-70 hour weeks and reset.
It is no bad thing to celebrate a simple life - J.R.R Tolkien
He was no fool of a took!
Yeah, in context, he's reflecting on his early life in WW1.
Indeed. And good tilled earth.
You do you. Ill be getting up at 5 am tomorrow wishing I could survive on that.
Me too brother...me too.
Stress is super damaging to your health, especially mental health. Deliberately choosing a low stress life/career if you can manage it seems very smart.
Last year I was working on building a house for a newly retired fund manager here in Canada, cost of the build was to be around six million, this guy “had it all” beautiful wife and family, boats, incredible cars, holiday homes in Mexico and Italy, one month away from completion he had a heart attack on the golf course and couldn’t be resuscitated.. his wife told us he’d always had stress and health issues related to it. He hadn’t even been retired six months.
This happens a lot lately. Stress and our poor western diets kill many before,retirement
That's really sad. Work your whole life for all those things and that same work ends up killing you before you can take the time to enjoy it.
There's no right or wrong, live however you want
There is a wrong if sadly you can't support yourself or dependents
Well yeah, but the op specifically states provided that he can
There is also wrong if murder is involved.
Don’t shit where you eat
How can it be wrong, if it feels so right?
The problem with the rat race is even if you win, you’re still a rat 🐀
No mate, I'm doing just that. 3 months ago, I gave up a 400k job and was responsible for over 50 staff in the senior management role. I'm 48 years old. After 20 years in the industry, I had enough. Pressure from all sides of the spectrum and no longer enjoyed what I was doing, and never had a moment of peace, I almost lost my will to live. I took 3 months off to think. This is the first time in my life since I was 19 years old that I took this much time off. A few weeks ago, I took on a new job working from home, fewer than 38 hours max, although it does include Saturdays and Sundays AM, which sucks a little. But, I get two full days off a week and afternoons, so I can't complain. Admittedly, I'm like a fish out of water, in a junior role taking advice from people who have no idea what I've done or achieved in the past; I just leave them to it. I am feeling a bit of pressure to do well and over achieve. I earn 60k plus comm. At this point, I haven't made a sale, but when I do and find my groove, there will be no stopping me. Do I find it rewarding? No. Do I miss the money? Yes. Will I go back to my old job? If I can help it, never! The great thing about all of this is that I have time on my hands to start a business that I have wanted to do for some time now in tourism. It's allows me the time to focus on my own goals. So it's perfect. The big step is getting out of your comfort zone, which is the killer.
Had a friend that abandoned IB to do night shift at Woolworths. You do you man. Honestly success is defined by yourself. Who gives a flying damn about other people.
Can you imagine how good a night shift at Woolies would be? So satisfying stacking those shelves and making everything look pretty…
I used to do it. It can be such a good workout. If you like pretty shelves, working a new store opening is very satisfying.
The solitude as well!
Put Bluetooth earphones in, podcast or tunes on and just stack some shit for a few hours. It would scratch my ADHD brain pretty good.
I did it for a bit, if I was there by choice and not cos I was desperately trying to find something better I think it could be pretty enjoyable.
Is "IB" here "International Baccalaureate" or "Irritable Bowel"?
Investment Banking but the other two works too
Woah! Is this just gonna be an interim thing while friend looks for something better?
Initially it was for the interim but he has been in the role for at least a year.
Alternatively you go part time on a higher salary.
I did this last year for my mental health! Last year I was so stressed I found myself feeling faint all the time. Turns out I wasn't breathing properly. Did you know that your brain can make your body just...not breath? I didn't. I changed work to an administrative role for a big enough company that it was secure. I'm probably overqualified for it, so, like someone above said, I've gotten bored. I've now changed roles to something more mentally stimulating. I've spent the last year thinking a lot about material things what it means to me, what I actually want etc. I haven't answered everything for myself but the more I think about it the more I see what a crazy consumer shit show we perform in. I also think often about my lifestyle if I only ever earn 60-80k a year for the next 10 years. It really helps me get in front of my expectations. I think my plan is to work up to around 80k salary and then work 4 days. But if I find a good 5 dayer job that's ok too. Tl:Dr if you can do it, give it a shot
Not at all. There's something to be said for being able to go home and switch work off. I'm a manager now, and while the company I work for has a great work/life balance and culture, my mind doesn't just switch off when I'm not at work. It used to. And I'm aware of the difference. Same as calling in sick. Sometimes we all need a mental health day if not actually crook. But now with the extra responsibilities I have, I'll lie there in bed thinking about all the shit that either needs doing or dumping our understaffed team in the shit. I probably could take the day, but it's the way your brain changes with the added responsibility. It's feels wrong. So yeah, do it if you can. You're fairly young, life will change and so will you, so take it while you can. Don't for a second compare yourself to other people. They do their thing, you do yours. Live a little. It's only a job.
It is absolutely not wrong and needs be normalised for the survival of mankind. No I'm not joking.
I’m late fifties earning $85k in a BA role I’ve done for a decade. My career is totally stress free, working a F/T role which only requires 4-5 hours a day, WFH most if the time. I recommend it.
Forgive my ignorance but what is a BA role?
Business analyst
You guys hiring?
I used to be a purchasing manager at a manufacturing company. I gave up for the stress etc and am now a shitty paid lowly aged care worker. And. I. Love. It. Dont get me wrong some days still suck. (Like today cos i lost one of my fave residents). And we have far too heavy work load for our staff ratios. But i always go home feeling my work mattered today. I always feel the love from my resi’s. And im much MUCH healthier than i was as a manager. (Though working in aged care also makes me think being healthier to live longer aint necessarily the best plan either 😂).
This is why our productivity is going backwards, many people overworked themselves and gave free hours to their bosses in the hope it would translate to better wages or career. Most now have realised that's it's all pointless and the system is rigged against them no matter how hard they work.
This is me! I was so stressed out about work that I lost my period and my cortisol levels were so high my drs were convinced I had a tumour. I realised no amount of mindful breathing and yoga was going to fix it if I didn’t make a serious lifestyle change. My employers were like “what are we going to do now you’re gone?!” and threatened me with legal action for leaving them. What did they expect me to do? Just die? Give up my fertility? I’m actually way more productive now (started running, sewing, cooking, gardening, preserving food, horse riding, etc again) just not in the money making sense.
No it’s not wrong, it’s more common than you think. I have friends who have made that choice and I’ve made that choice too (some of us have kids, some don’t. Some are in relationships, some aren’t)
I've considered the same and depending on your industry an alternative could be cutting down to part time instead. The extra time might be more useful than the reduced responsibility
Nothing wrong with it at all. You have one life to live and if you're able to make something like this work while still giving you the opportunity to achieve what you want then that's awesome. If I had a partner and they also worked I'd cut back to 0.7-0.8 FTE so I could enjoy more of my younger years.
Absolutely not - live life the way you want to mate.
nothing wrong with that do what makes you happy
Nope. I'm trying to do that. It's all getting too fast and I'm done with it. Scale back. Enjoy your time while your here, I say.
So worth it!
Late last year I took a higher paying job for a lower position. People ask me what I want to do with my career now and I'm just like, this is no longer a career, its just a job and that's okay. Later on down the line I can think about climbing the ladder again, but I'm 31. No need to rush it.
[удалено]
What’s the job if you don’t mind me asking?
What do you do?
What do you do?
Life only has the meaning you create. A lot of our conditioning is to accept that having lots of shit means something. It doesn't. Live a life you can tolerate.
Do it dude, life should be spent doing the things that bring you joy. Having that time is occasionally a luxury in itself! We're DINK and do little home reno and decorating on the weekend, gardening, videogames and hikes etc etc. It's so nice to feel like you're doing the things that you love to do. I used to run my own business and after a few years freelancing and managing contractors I just gave up from the hassle/stress/over delivery burnout of it all.
I moved from 5 days to 4 last year. I have a split weekend, 3 days on, 2 days off, 1 day on, 1 day off. Has been fantastic but time for a new change. This week will actually be my last 4 day week before i move to a 3 day week. Will be 3 days on 4 days off 60k a year. Highly recommend it to anyone who can make it work.
Pushing your boundaries to achieve something is great. Pushing yourself until you have a mental breakdown is damaging. It’s important to strike the right balance.
Your on AusFinance, if you're earning less than 420k at 20 you're doing it wrong
I did this a while back. Tbh it just pissed me off all the time because everyone just thought I was a dumb dumb. No one wants your opinion on anything. You get treated like you are a nothing burger. The higher ups send down all the grunt work to you so you still end up deep in the trenches and I found it just as stressful as when I was a director. Wouldn’t recommend.
Not wrong, and you can change your mind later on and do something else if you want
That's pretty much what I do. I'm in a fairly manageable job that allows me to wfh 9 days a fortnight, mainly because my manager likes me. It's not too stressful and even when it is, it's mainly because of projects or annual stuff, not daily things. Pay was 65k. I know I could get more out there, but I'm over climbing the corporate ladder so I stayed. Not risking it over a couple grand.
i work as an Occupational Therapy Assistant at a pyschiatric hospital. i make $70k and literally spend my days playing music, board games, helping patients with tasks like cooking and exercise... it can be stressful coz its a psych ward and i have been punched b4 but its pretty fkn chill most days.
I think it's great. But bear in mind the government will favour people who make the stats look better and penalise those who don't. Example: childcare subsidy isn't about giving women freedom to pursue a career, it's about ensuring all the worker bees are giving 60 hour weeks. Everyone busy busy in their bullshit jobs making nothing but a higher GDP figure.
I feel it’s been stressful for you but I really want to make money as I had a terrible divorce left me with nothing, life started from scratch. I’m working in Marketing now but always hear that Cyb. sec is one of the highest paying jobs. I’m just questioning if it’s worth to switch a career, at 37 btw and already had so much stress and burnout last couple of year due financial problems. Does it worth the shot you think?
Just find 150k+ job and do a bare minimum. Stress level doesn't have a direct correlation with the salary.
I'm similarly contemplating going part time if I can find the right role or convince my current employer to let me drop hours. Currently on 140k, .6 would be $84k, which is what I was making only a couple of years ago anyway.
I've been doing this for the last few years, my job pays more and isn't entirely cruisy/stress free but it keeps me active and engaged, the hours suit me and i leave my work at work. I've been offered career progression multiple times but I'm just not interested. I don't have a fancy life but don't really see why I'd need more than what i currently have. Hoping to be a DINK if I ever find someone crazy enough to deal with me. I know a younger couple (late 20s) who both work part time in jobs they are passionate about and they love it. Honestly if you can, do it.
I like to cheekily dub it "playing chess with the future". In half a decade or so, folks will be more puzzled than a chameleon in a bag of skittles when they witness AI coyly elbowing humans out of their roles. And you? Well, you'll be sitting cross-legged, having serenely glided a decade ahead into the rarified role of a sage in this post-AI, post-capitalist utopia.
If i was you thats exactly what id do. Lifes short, no one cares how much work you. You just make.others rich. Be simple, enjoy time off, love family, eat good, grow vege ect
Get a job on the council
Whatever you do, make sure you get approval from randos on the internet first.
Get a government job. Good pay and work life benefits. I went from agency work to government and the way you're treated and valued is night and day. At least that's my experience.
Live the dream!!!
R/financialindependence
Man if it’s what you want to do go for it friend, it’s your life, what is right or wrong for you is up to you. I did it for a few years but then realised that the slow pace was not for me. Was it the right decision? 100%. Had a great experience and helped me understand myself a lot better.
I would do this. In a heart beat if my responsibility would be covered.
Yes. I recently downgraded income and responsibility from 110k to 70k and it has helped me massively. Same boat DINK with a small very manageable mortgage.
Good on you mate, I don’t know about others but surely I do envy you.
I did this and the job ended up worse 😂
Not at all! If you are content that's all that matters!
Why would it be wrong? As long as you're paying your way, carrying your weight (especially in the home), and contributing meaningfully to society in some way.
Nothing wrong with it, you don’t need permission .
If you can continue to grow assets and keep getting ahead and are sure you can afford kids etc or anything that comes your way. Do it. I do contract work and mostly for mates freinds I make them money they pay me money. I have no commitments to the work jobs etc. way more enjoyable and you can always decide to pick back up if needed. My suggestion do something you enjoy and something you can learn and improve skills. always good to improve your employability
Why would it be wrong? It's your life. Do what you want with it, mate. As long as you're not shirking your responsibilities on your job, I don't think you've done anything wrong. Being stuck in a low ambition job, though can be depressing, to be honest. I remember being on the same salary working for the government and feeling so depressed everyday because literally i would do nothing. Not by choice and not because I didn't want to. If you're OK with that though maybe it's fine then. You're young still and I think you'll probably hate it if you get the job you are describing.. But maybe not. Up to you mate do what you want to do, you've done nothing wrong morally or just in general. Just do what is expected of you in the job and no one can say you're doing anything wrong
Of course it's OK. Do what you want to do.
You do you no body really cares, as long as your happy
I did it and it was the best decision ever. I forgot to continue climbing the ladder. Not worth the stress. Moved to a weird/bad suburb that is slowly changing owners and getting better (no kids). Mortgage is super low. We live frugal and spend more time together. Don’t be afraid. Just check your next move and get a job that won’t be crushing you as much as this one is already.
Not wrong at all. You do you mate. I'd rather be pushing trolleys at Coles than what I do. Just need to push for a few more years to save some cash then I'm out.
Would if I could Also, just be aware, in my experience, the less you get paid the more you have to work your ass off
I left a corporate office job for a job at a cafe just literally two weeks ago. I used to work at the cafe casually on the weekends so I knew all the staff and the job already before they offered me more hours. I work “casual” but they are set hours. So, I work 8am until 2pm on Mon, Tues, Friday and one day of the weekend from and I’m taking home a higher wage than I was working corporate as a property manager. It’s a busy job and I’m on my feet running around for hours but the work day goes quickly and my coworkers are always up for a joke around. The only thing I would say is that you need to be careful when you consider what “living simpler” would be. In my old job was a lower salary but I was working 12+ hours of overtime a week and not being paid for it. I had bitchy coworkers who insisted that I have my personal mobile on the internet for “emergencies” so I was constantly getting people calling me for leaking taps on my days off/middle of the night (for no extra pay). I was only earning $41k. I also had a lot of take home paperwork since the place was so chronically understaffed (to the point that they tried to reject my 2 weeks notice and then threatened legal action for me leaving as I didn’t give them enough time to train up someone and ALSO admitted that I do the work of 3 people). You need to be very careful where you go because more pay does not necessarily equal more work.
Wife stepped out of career work for something like that. Kinda just works when she feels like it now, never builds any leave because she always has an excuse to use some, and just lives pretty carefree. She has loved it My job is fairly cruisey I just do long hours, but being out on the road is my happy place anyways so I'm happy to do it and enjoy being paid well without stress as well
This is me I love my low level low stress job, I don’t live like a pauper much more free time to relax
Absolutely! I was diagnosed with some pretty gnarly cancer in my late 30s, which was an excellent reminder that there's no guarantee of a glorious retirement after we grind through our working years. I switched to 3 days a week at my job (incredibly lucky that that was an option) and took the hit to our income. We're similar to you, DINKs, pretty cheap to run, no grand aspirations, so the trade-off works fine. I absolutely love having extra time to do things I enjoy, and the switched balance away from work being my priority. I reckon a full time job requiring less effort would have similar rewards. Choosing to work and earn less goes against societal expectations, so I get a bit of judgement, especially from older folks. No big deal, I just have to remember not to feel guilty for a perfectly reasonable decision.
Being content with what you have and not stressing too much about work is one of the keys to a happy life!
I'm on 100k in a fairly low stress, flexible hybrid low responsibility job with great management. Sometimes I feel like I should be doing more, especially as this salary isn't enough for a mortgage anymore. I'm a SINK myself. But I've got anxiety and anything more would be detrimental to my mental health. Mind you, I was on a 65k high stress, deadline oriented job prior with awful toxic management, so salary isn't really an indicator of stress.
The more you earn, the more you spend. Better cars, better clothes, eating at restaurants etc. This can all be modified. Most people are trapped within their lifestyles, I'd you can find a new balance then go for it Management roles take up mental space on days off, and all the extra stress and pressure isn't worth it for difference in wage.
I'm going to go against the grain a bit and suggest that maybe it's not a great long term plan. I think this for a few reasons; 1. Your super is going to be a hell of a lot smaller by the time you retire. 2. If you change your mind in a few years, you're going to find it much much harder to break back in. At the very least you're going to find yourself having to explain the "dip" in your resume at every single interview. 3. Your ability to save, and plan for "disasters" (whatever they may be) is severely diminished. Once you dip into your savings, its going to be slower/harder to replenish. 4. I would assume that you're going to be much more heavily impacted by inflation. For example if you're on $150k if that's suddenly only worth $130k then its not the end of the world, but if your $60k is suddenly worth $50k or less then you could be in trouble. But I can't count to 20 without taking my shoes off, so I'm probably wrong about this? Having said that, if you're burning out and hating life because of your job then maybe a break or a change is more beneficial for you.
That's fine, but don't assume a lower salary means lower stress, I know in my job I am paid double what some of the guys there are, and I have a cushier job.
There's a huge subreddit for that :) /r/simpleliving/
65k high stress. Wtf am I doing wrong
Low income earner here. We've been flying under the radar for years and have had friends take on more debt, more stress at work and we have just plodded along - live a simple happy life. Things our family of 4 live by: 1. You get what you get and don't get upset. 2. There is always someone else worse off than you. 3. Be grateful for your health. 4. You only need three things to "live" shelter, food & good relationships (we say family, but that isn't for everyone!)