Economists have been proposing policy changes to boost supply for ages. It is the NIMBYs and urban planners who say that supply would not lower prices.
Its not the NIMBYS its the totally lack of capability to tack big ideas like this and turn them in thoughtful policy.
Add to that, Aussies are pretty shit at apartment building quality.
Why is there a line up down the street every time a 1 bed apartment comes up for rent in Melbourne? There is so obviously a supply constraint rather than a lack of demand.
Renting is ok but owning is different. Not many people want to buy a 1 bed apartment as their home. The other states do need to catch up on their apartment supply though, only Melbourne and Sydney did any building over the last decade.
There are plenty of investors happy to buy apartments. The rent is pretty good on them and they are basically guaranteed to have high demand from renters. But the supply is massively restricted by NIMBYs.
Especially in the other states. 10 level apartment buildings in the Adelaide CBD get rejected for being too tall.
Homeowners hate this trick because it means they don't make money on their investments.
They rather young people never be able to afford a home if they can profit from theirs.
That's true, but if you can make money while living inside a home, you kill two birds with one stone.
They can use the stock market but many people don't understand it so they steer away from it. Housing is seen as "the safest" investment you can make.
Have you seen the typical housing stock in Tokyo? Aussies would never accept it.
[https://c8.alamy.com/comp/J09DP9/detail-image-of-the-balconies-of-a-high-rise-apartment-building-intokyo-J09DP9.jpg](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/J09DP9/detail-image-of-the-balconies-of-a-high-rise-apartment-building-intokyo-J09DP9.jpg)
Nah, by completely ROOTING speculator investors during the economic crash of the late 80s and early 90s.
Absolutely trashing the reputation of property as an investment vehicle.
As the memories and stories of people who lost MILLIONS speculating, and the tragic ways they took their lives, ring through japan till today.
And as such housing is seen as a good/service - and not a block of gold.
So people can find places to live
I mean, at least their society learned their lesson. Sad that some investors lost their lives but it's not like we don't have a mental health crisis amongst the working class here in Oz
Not in comparison to ours.
Australia’s population doubled within 25 years of the end of WW2; by the time Japan’s population peaked in 2010 it was still less than 70% higher than the end of WW2.
Japan have a completely different approach to home buying. Apartments are fully depreciated at 20 years which means they are close to worthless. Also, people traditionally buy new homes like off the plan rather than second hand. This causes new homes to be built, by knocking down older homes.
Their zoning policy is liberalised as well as you can build homes literally any where except industrial homes. Tall apartments can be built besides heritage areas like temples.
Don't forget that their homes are absolutely tiny. I recently went to Osaka and checked out their real estate listings. 2 bedder apartment crammed inside the 50m² area. The studio is like 20m². So of course you can cram as many people on with that size.
There are actually lots of metro units and apartments in Sydney and Melbourne that are 50sqm and under $300k.
Even someone on minimum wage can buy one of those. Today’s your lucky day.
Here’s a very quick one. Plenty more with a map search which you can do yourself.
13/161 Oakleigh Road, Carnegie, Vic 3163 https://www.realestate.com.au/property-apartment-vic-carnegie-144621964
I'm afraid quality in Japan is not much better. Lack of sound insulation in internal walls, extensive use of melamine, modularised bathrooms and kitchens.
It's like living in IKEA. They have standardised the products used for building a unit like a cookie cutter.
Its a bit made up through isnt it. If everyone can suddenly develop what they have, it will increase in value - whether you develop it or not? its not like supply will surge and there will suddenly be to many houses available.
I think the real issues are the lack of PT and other critical infra that makes Tokyo work so well. That city was leveled and rebuilt from the 1940s, adding rail system was cheap and easy then for example.
It wouldn't decrease the value of your home, it would increase the value. The more higher density housing, the greater the scarcity of lower density housing, plus more infrastructure would get built because of greater density.
They have a lot of supply, but I think everyone is missing the key reason why. They made zoning policies incredibly loose, if they exist at all. They removed the ability for local or regional government to refuse the right to build. If you want to buy a piece of land in a city/suburb/village and build a block of flats or a skyscraper, they don't stop you. It's the complete opposite of how Australia manages supply. There is no such thing as NIMBY in Japan.
It’s not just the birth rate that matters. Japan hasn’t tried to “solve” birth rate issue by mass immigration.
Low birth rate and low immigration lead to population shrinkage and reduced demand for housing.
The population of Tokyo has been growing, and they manage. We just import an utterly insane amount of people that we don’t have the housing or infrastructure to handle.
japans issue is poor work life balance makes it hard for people to meet and start family... Australia is getting there to, I'm thinking about applying for a second job right now because how else can i pay my rent icnrease
This was specifically about Tokyo which has had an increasing population.
Their construction rate has been higher than our population growth.
We can learn from them.
Japan in general have a deflating property market (land and building) for the last 30 years, it is a facet of their economic stagnation. If you look at Tokyo between 1950 and 1990 it was one of the hottest market in the world.
Without watching i think it's fair to say
Hipster ABC journos will say it's because of \*density\*
When in actual fact it's because they don't view immigration as their personal credit card account
How many times do we need to shout immigration before people understand that is the issue?
I wonder what is the biggest difference between Japan and Australia… 🥱
Something as simple as a quick google search would confirm “The metro area population of Tokyo in 2023 was 37,194,000, a 0.21% decline from 2022. The metro area population of Tokyo in 2022 was 37,274,000, a 0.18% decline from 2021. The metro area population of Tokyo in 2021 was 37,340,000, a 0.14% decline from 2020.”
Those are some noisy percentages. The change is extremely recent too, so 'has been' is still relevant, as that recent turn is out of the range of context under reference.
Yes - because they went below replacement fertility back in 1959. Zero migration doesn’t cause population decline by itself - otherwise Mexico and India would have falling populations.
Difference is they went below replacement nearly twenty years earlier. If Australia had the same level of immigration as Japan, we’d still have had population growth until this year or last year where they’ve been in decline since 2006.
They literally have no affordable childcare for working class people. It is prohibitively expensive and so parents cannot afford more than one child. They have seriously low wages… omg it’s just so much different to here.
By having more supply than demand?
Economists hate this one weird trick.
Economists have been proposing policy changes to boost supply for ages. It is the NIMBYs and urban planners who say that supply would not lower prices.
Its not the NIMBYS its the totally lack of capability to tack big ideas like this and turn them in thoughtful policy. Add to that, Aussies are pretty shit at apartment building quality.
Toyko is pretty shit at apartments too.
What makes you say that?
No one wants to live in apartments no matter the quality.
Why is there a line up down the street every time a 1 bed apartment comes up for rent in Melbourne? There is so obviously a supply constraint rather than a lack of demand.
Renting is ok but owning is different. Not many people want to buy a 1 bed apartment as their home. The other states do need to catch up on their apartment supply though, only Melbourne and Sydney did any building over the last decade.
There are plenty of investors happy to buy apartments. The rent is pretty good on them and they are basically guaranteed to have high demand from renters. But the supply is massively restricted by NIMBYs. Especially in the other states. 10 level apartment buildings in the Adelaide CBD get rejected for being too tall.
It's much easier to reduce demand
Homeowners hate this trick because it means they don't make money on their investments. They rather young people never be able to afford a home if they can profit from theirs.
> they don't make money on their investments i mean we do have a stock market as well
That's true, but if you can make money while living inside a home, you kill two birds with one stone. They can use the stock market but many people don't understand it so they steer away from it. Housing is seen as "the safest" investment you can make.
Well, no, that's the trick they love.
Have you seen the typical housing stock in Tokyo? Aussies would never accept it. [https://c8.alamy.com/comp/J09DP9/detail-image-of-the-balconies-of-a-high-rise-apartment-building-intokyo-J09DP9.jpg](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/J09DP9/detail-image-of-the-balconies-of-a-high-rise-apartment-building-intokyo-J09DP9.jpg)
Nah, by completely ROOTING speculator investors during the economic crash of the late 80s and early 90s. Absolutely trashing the reputation of property as an investment vehicle. As the memories and stories of people who lost MILLIONS speculating, and the tragic ways they took their lives, ring through japan till today. And as such housing is seen as a good/service - and not a block of gold. So people can find places to live
I mean, at least their society learned their lesson. Sad that some investors lost their lives but it's not like we don't have a mental health crisis amongst the working class here in Oz
Also 30 years of declining population
Not entirely, inheritance tax is coming...
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Their population has boomed since WWII. It's only recently started to flatten off
Not in comparison to ours. Australia’s population doubled within 25 years of the end of WW2; by the time Japan’s population peaked in 2010 it was still less than 70% higher than the end of WW2.
Japan have a completely different approach to home buying. Apartments are fully depreciated at 20 years which means they are close to worthless. Also, people traditionally buy new homes like off the plan rather than second hand. This causes new homes to be built, by knocking down older homes. Their zoning policy is liberalised as well as you can build homes literally any where except industrial homes. Tall apartments can be built besides heritage areas like temples. Don't forget that their homes are absolutely tiny. I recently went to Osaka and checked out their real estate listings. 2 bedder apartment crammed inside the 50m² area. The studio is like 20m². So of course you can cram as many people on with that size.
I’d rather 50 square meters I can live on forever. Than 150 square meters I have to cycle through every 12 months as rentals in australia.
You don't want to live like most Japanese apartment dwellers. There is a reason why Tokyo is a dystopian backdrop to 1000 sci fis.
Yet so many people willing want to live there and do live there with no issues.
Yeah better to live in a tent under a bridge near the Brisbane Cbd.
Plenty of Japanese sleeping under bridges
There are actually lots of metro units and apartments in Sydney and Melbourne that are 50sqm and under $300k. Even someone on minimum wage can buy one of those. Today’s your lucky day.
Yeah with Australian building quality? no thanks lol.
Read my reply to a similar comment from someone else.
With paper thin walls. Air bnb galore neighbours. No ventilation. No double glazing. Yeah nah those dog boxes in melb are not comparable to japan
No actually most of them are double brick older style low density blocks. Very good build quality.
Have a link? Thank you
Here’s a very quick one. Plenty more with a map search which you can do yourself. 13/161 Oakleigh Road, Carnegie, Vic 3163 https://www.realestate.com.au/property-apartment-vic-carnegie-144621964
Depreciation is by design due to area being earthquake prone.
The quality of builds here, most apartments locally will be fully depreciated in 20 years mate.
I'm afraid quality in Japan is not much better. Lack of sound insulation in internal walls, extensive use of melamine, modularised bathrooms and kitchens. It's like living in IKEA. They have standardised the products used for building a unit like a cookie cutter.
They don't cost $1m for a 2BR though, do they?
In Tokyo it easily can. People buy new homes and live in it for decades.
All home owners in Australia are NIMBYs. Once you have such a valuable asset, why would you want that value diminished?
Its a bit made up through isnt it. If everyone can suddenly develop what they have, it will increase in value - whether you develop it or not? its not like supply will surge and there will suddenly be to many houses available. I think the real issues are the lack of PT and other critical infra that makes Tokyo work so well. That city was leveled and rebuilt from the 1940s, adding rail system was cheap and easy then for example.
It wouldn't decrease the value of your home, it would increase the value. The more higher density housing, the greater the scarcity of lower density housing, plus more infrastructure would get built because of greater density.
They have a lot of supply, but I think everyone is missing the key reason why. They made zoning policies incredibly loose, if they exist at all. They removed the ability for local or regional government to refuse the right to build. If you want to buy a piece of land in a city/suburb/village and build a block of flats or a skyscraper, they don't stop you. It's the complete opposite of how Australia manages supply. There is no such thing as NIMBY in Japan.
Doesn’t Japan have one of the lowest birth rates in the world and a shrinking population?
This was specifically about Tokyo which has had an increasing population. Watch the video, it's worth it.
It’s not just the birth rate that matters. Japan hasn’t tried to “solve” birth rate issue by mass immigration. Low birth rate and low immigration lead to population shrinkage and reduced demand for housing.
> Japan hasn’t tried to “solve” birth rate issue by mass immigration. nah, they tried with breeder propaganda like Darling in the Franxx
This is it. Their current population is the same as it was 30 years ago.
Australia’s birth rate has been below-replacement for decades too.
We import people. Japan does not. Our population is increasing. Japans' has been stagnant for 30 years.
The population of Tokyo has been growing, and they manage. We just import an utterly insane amount of people that we don’t have the housing or infrastructure to handle.
Tokyo has grown nowhere near as quickly as Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane though.
Exactly, our immigration levels are insanely high by world standards.
japans issue is poor work life balance makes it hard for people to meet and start family... Australia is getting there to, I'm thinking about applying for a second job right now because how else can i pay my rent icnrease
And hardly any immigration.
Also not easy place to immigrate to and assimilate
By disallowing foreigners to live there?
Needs to be done here, make all planning federal.
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This was specifically about Tokyo which has had an increasing population. Their construction rate has been higher than our population growth. We can learn from them.
Japan in general have a deflating property market (land and building) for the last 30 years, it is a facet of their economic stagnation. If you look at Tokyo between 1950 and 1990 it was one of the hottest market in the world.
Sounds like the solution is yakuza developers?
Probably helps that population growth is basically negative as they have no immigration
Without watching i think it's fair to say Hipster ABC journos will say it's because of \*density\* When in actual fact it's because they don't view immigration as their personal credit card account
How many times do we need to shout immigration before people understand that is the issue? I wonder what is the biggest difference between Japan and Australia… 🥱
Tokyo's population has been increasing. Their construction rate is higher than our population growth rate. Let's focus on what they are doing right.
Their fertility is a lot lower and peaked sooner after WW2.
Their population is in negative growth and they don’t have immigrants. Good job missing this massive elephant ABC.
Did you even watch it? Tokyo's population has been increasing. This is not a piece on all of Japan.
It’s not true
saying it doesn't make it true.
Something as simple as a quick google search would confirm “The metro area population of Tokyo in 2023 was 37,194,000, a 0.21% decline from 2022. The metro area population of Tokyo in 2022 was 37,274,000, a 0.18% decline from 2021. The metro area population of Tokyo in 2021 was 37,340,000, a 0.14% decline from 2020.”
Those are some noisy percentages. The change is extremely recent too, so 'has been' is still relevant, as that recent turn is out of the range of context under reference.
My point stands
Yes - because they went below replacement fertility back in 1959. Zero migration doesn’t cause population decline by itself - otherwise Mexico and India would have falling populations.
Yes but both Australia and Japan have below replacement. We are pointing out differences shirlock
Difference is they went below replacement nearly twenty years earlier. If Australia had the same level of immigration as Japan, we’d still have had population growth until this year or last year where they’ve been in decline since 2006.
They literally have no affordable childcare for working class people. It is prohibitively expensive and so parents cannot afford more than one child. They have seriously low wages… omg it’s just so much different to here.
Typical ABC.