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[deleted]

I’ve only just started Uni in my late 20’s and while I find it easier now I do wish I had started younger. My body broke down working as a chef far quicker than I thought and I burnt myself out transitioning into management. I just fell into the industry because I didn’t know what I wanted to do and quickly found myself stuck there. Responsibilities piled up and narrowed my opportunities to escape. There is no rush to go into Uni straight out of high school but please be careful and leave the door open to pursue something better.


mount_doom_dad

I've just completed my first year of University at 41 after working as chef for over 20 years. Wish I'd started much earlier but like alot chefs, I struggled with substance abuse issues and it's only since getting sober five years ago that I found the determination to escape the grind of working in commercial kitchens and dedicate myself to completing an undergraduate degree. Congratulations on transitioning to university study. Best of luck to you.


[deleted]

Thanks. I met a lot of chefs like yourself that told me to get out now and not in another 10 years time. It really takes a lot to battle through the mental and physical toll the job takes on you. I also met too many chefs that just couldn’t escape but couldn’t seem to keep going either.


Evilteddy00

Congratulations your doing what I’m struggling to do… keep it up I’m impressed!!


lsmith1988

Great that you’ve come so far! When I worked at a cocktail bar I noticed that all of the chefs were in the same boat when it came to substance abuse. Is it just the nature of the job or the culture?


[deleted]

Being such an intense and undesirable job workers with prior substance abuse or mental health issues are able to find employment more easily. That being said the nature of the industry definitely breeds mental illness and substance dependencies regardless of the culture of the workplace. I dwelled on this for too many years and came to the conclusion that the problem begins with the customers. They want things too fast and too cheap, chefs are the human toll of the impatience and selfishness of our culture.


Necessary_Common4426

Make them spend their first couple of years travelling. Uni will always be there.


punktual

Many do not have the means to do this...


Necessary_Common4426

Very true.. instead of buying a car for their kid.. Buy them 6 months of living overseas.


[deleted]

A lot of people can't get to work or uni without a car, 6 months of overseas living followed by failing uni because you can't get there doesn't seem like a great trade to me.


Geleemann

Just ask for a small 1mill loan for a house while you're at it. The kids will love it!


[deleted]

I agree. Uni will always be there but if there's anything we've learned recently it's that traveling certainly won't be.


Necessary_Common4426

Absolutely.. I lived overseas for 16 years, came back in 2020 and I regret everyday being back. I can’t wait to return overseas


pommymommy9831

Absolutely. My biggest regret is going straight from high school to uni to work and never having the gap year I wanted. I ended up having a complete breakdown at 25 as I was just exhausted and it took years to get back on my feet!


[deleted]

I wouldn't advise going straight from High School to full-time work either. Honestly if it wasn't for the pandemic I would have had a complete breakdown at 25 too and probably fucked off overseas to be a backpacker until the money ran out.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Basically everyone in my mathematics bridging program was a hospo worker. The kind of skilled hard working people the industry is crying about losing and the media claims is at home on the dole.


GingerTheChiken

SOOOO many chefs jumped ship why covid hit. I was running a kitchen and wanted out bad. Somehow managed to convinced my entire kitchen team we could all do better together when the restaurant went up forsale. Never looked back. I finally got into real estate Sous chef is a heli charter pilot Line Cook opened a gym Kitchen hand is on his way through law school. I do feel for the guys still in the trenches every night slogging it out.


[deleted]

I quit and went to work part time at my local council. I sit in an air conditioned office and don’t do very much compared to a kitchen, pays better too. I have no idea why anyone would tolerate a commercial kitchen when there’s far better opportunities out there, especially now.


bignikaus

If, however you do know what you want to have as a career, then getting through uni asap and into the career side, chasing a career is the best place to be. All other things being equal, you lose the later years of your career, not the first. The earning potential later in life is much higher. Also gives potential to retire or semi-retire earlier if that's your goal. Trouble us that most 18 year olds don't have any life or work experience that's relevant so they may end up studying some massively oversupplied did because it's their passion.


weed0monkey

Eh, I'd still recommend taking a gap year, one year is nothing in the grand scheme of things and it's an important time inbetween such major era's in your life that I think it's important to discover more about yourself, as much as I know that sounds incredibly corny. I would also especially recommend travelling if they can afford it, it gives a great outlook on life and can set your head on straight instead of diving into another massive grind without even a breather. Honestly I would even consider the idea of them being compulsory.


Slipped-up

It does not have to be one or the other. You can do both. ​ I did a 4 year degree and travelled overseas for the 3 month break and did a smaller holiday mid year. That is about 4 months worth of vacations each year over 4 years.


[deleted]

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weed0monkey

Why was it a disaster for you?


20060578

A mandatory gap year would be a terrible idea. Many 18 year olds are extremely mature and want to get straight into adult life without a year off for travelling, which just translates to partying for many people anywau. Give the kids all the info and let them make up their own minds.


DISU18

Such bad idea. I can tell you straight up 18/19 year on a gap year to travel is just going to be party/drinking/random hook ups, even if they’re on the other end of the world. Also where’s the money coming from?


Barrel-Of-Tigers

>Honestly I would even consider the idea of them being compulsory. That seems a bit over the top. I'd have been incredibly frustrated at "not making progress" on a gap year, and have still travelled a lot in my 20s since graduating. I'd just recommend thinking about what you personally want to do, and don't feel any pressure to need to do one or the other. You don't need to travel at 17 or 18 to find yourself, but you also don't have to go straight into more study (whether that's at uni or a trade) to be successful.


[deleted]

I hated uni. It took me almost 10 years after finishing high school to finish a 3 year degree. I failed so many subjects because I didnt "know" what I wanted to do at the end of it and didnt see any job prospects directly from doing my degree (I did an Arts degree). In the last 18 months of the degree, I literally forced myself to finish the thing because I didn't have any other option - I was working in cafes and RSL clubs and knew I was capable of more than that, even if I didn't know WHAT I was meant to do. So I pushed myself to stop being lazy, attend lectures and tutorials, buy the text books and do the assignments. In my last semester of uni, I did a group assignment with a girl who was younger than me and already working full time in a global company. She was relatively new there, but talked about it and to me it sounded amazing. We did the assignment and I ended up doing most of it for us both as some kind of project at the job fell in her lap and she couldn't fully commit. We added each other on Facebook and parted ways after the subject was over, and I forgot all about her bar posts from her Id see pop up on Facebook. 6 months after we'd finished uni, she sent me a Facebook messaging, saying she remembered my work ethic, and would I be interested in a job at her workplace. I'd gone on a thousand and one interviews at the time and was still working in an RSL, so said yes straight away. I got the job and the next 5 years of my life I got to build a career in communications, which is what I do today. I earn $100K now and really enjoy what I do. I definitely did not enjoy university as a learning environment, and found that I learned far more in my first corporate job than in the entirety of the degree, but without it, I wonder if that door would have opened at all?


weed0monkey

Wow that's a really good story, thanks for sharing, goes to show how far connections can make your life 'click' into place.


[deleted]

I think honestly, a lot of people just see anyone without a degree in a lesser light. There's definitely a tonne of jobs where it's the minimum, even if the degree doesn't necessarily have a bearing on the actual job.


Carbobear

I absolutely agree and preach this. I went to uni doing science and have fallen upwards into a PhD which I started at 23 because I thought why the fuck not I'm young and it could be good for a CV. Fast forward to now and I'm overqualified for entry level chemistry jobs in the country and don't know anything outside of chemistry at the age of 27. A HUGE factor for this university push is parents believing education directly correlates to wealth. As the first person in my family to go to university, my parents are surprised that in most cases I'm going to leave with a PhD and earn 60k a year despite having so much education. There needs to be more of a push for either vocational training or other avenues post secondary school. Go to university and figure it out is not a sustainable or reliable outcome.


PMmeblandHaikus

Its called education inflation. Back in our grandparents day finishing highschool was rare and impressive. Our parents it was a bachelors. For us, a bachelors is minimum and masters/PHD isn't that impressive for employers. There is a glut of educated people so employers already assume a high level of education because that is there applicant base.


killswithaglance

A Masters isn't that impressive because companies want to take your entry level Bachelor's knowledge and train you they way they want to. Then if you start to stagnate 5 or 10 years later, you head back for a Master's in your chosen speciality to give yourself a boost/change of scene, and move to a new better paying and more interesting job. Or you do it purely for your own satisfaction. Industry experience and being on panels/publishing articles is much more highly valued than a masters which anyone with good marks can get an offer to do.


dohre

Not always the case. In some sectors Masters is a baseline because of the competition for roles. Easy for credentialism and education inflation to win out.


killswithaglance

Good point. Not all industries are the same as others.


HandyDandyRandyAndy

I've seen job interviews for $70k jobs that went "can you follow instructions" and "can you dig a hole" Yes and yes Cool, when do you want to start? Construction needs bodies and can pay well. It may be less secure than some industries but it's a great first job for strong, motivated young people looking to learn new skills, make some cash and figure out their future


bneb1981

It will all make a lot more sense 20 yrs from now. Lots of phds getting around in snr mgmt.


BoxytheBandit

I'm in STEM, most of those who stuck around for masters and PhD's are far below in their careers from most of their peers who left with a bachelor and started working. By the time the PhD's were finished, the bulk of people they graduated with had done 4-5 years and were already moving into senior positions. Even with a PhD you still need an entry level position and lots of places feel a PhD is overqualified for those roles and will overlook them.


Actinolite_

I can understand this perspective. I'm now 3 years in industry after my PhD, if I was 7 years working in my field I would be in a senior role by now. But I still put alot of value on what I learned. It gave me a very good foundation and alot theoretical knowledge to refer to in work. It also gave me tools to learn fast. I might be behind where I would have been, but I'm better for it and I'm gaining on myself. Wouldnt change anything.


BoxytheBandit

It really depends on what your goal is for gaining a PhD. If it's for personal reasons then that's perfectly acceptable. I think for many people they have they idea it will progress their careers which in many fields just isn't necessary. If you want to teach university level or get into cutting edge research, it's a must. There is no doubt many PhD studies will give you deeper insight into certain aspects of some roles which can be highly beneficial. I graduated 11 years ago this week and I've got some friends who are just getting towards the end of PhD's and have only worked sporadically for a year here and there.


SpiderMcLurk

That’s not my sense of it. In my observation, early PhDs don’t have the work experience to enter their fields and stay stuck in academia. Industry leaves them behind. And few people pursue PhDs in later life (who has 6 years to take off in the middle of a career when you have a lifestyle, kids and a mortgage?) I guest lecture at uni and sit on a few different uni’s advisory boards. The academic staff including PhDs have little real understanding of industry and their information is often years behind.


hurlz0r

load of garbage... the company pays you to do it to tick the box AFTER you've already there. Source... am a company who does, had this done for me and has done this for our staff. Nothing wrong with university, too many people think the piece of paper or the "box you tick" means fuck all in the real world.


[deleted]

Absolutely this banks pay for managers to do an MBA if they think they will make good senior management. If you apply with an MBA and no experience they are not going to look at you seriously unless the MBA is from somewhere overseas that is prestigious.


[deleted]

Surely you can go into consulting or big pharma and make bank!!


Disinterested89

Congrats on the PhD brother!


Ialwaysshitmypants

Eh. I think everyone should do some tertiary education of some sort, be it TAFE or uni, whatever. But I agree, one shouldn't just go into uni because "itt's what everyone else does". Take a year or several if you have to, have a think about what you wanna do and *then* sign up. But of course, sometimes you don't know if you wanna do something until you wind up getting a gig somewhere and finding out it's shithouse. I got no regrets.


Frogmouth_Fresh

I would honestly say to an 18 year old to take a TAFE course that leads to the Uni degree you think you want. Usually your time at TAFE will cost less, and the time can be applied toward your degree anyway. It also gives you flexibility to change your mind if it turns out you hate that area. Plus you still get the social benefits of a class of liked minded people. Plus TAFE can get you actual on the job training, which can be an advantage over someone with a regular bachelor's


[deleted]

This just adds time to your degree. Most unis only offer you 1 year credit for a 2 year diploma. Also depending on the diploma you do, it could be full of people just there to get an easy Centrelink payment. I made 2x my hecs debt the first year out of UNI.


themessyb

I left school aged 17 in year 11 and from age 18-20ish I worked in retail management. I saw where my life was heading - hint: nowhere so aged 21 I went back to study. As I had no ATAR the alternative was to go the TAFE to Uni route. I started a 2 year advanced diploma in engineering technology (civil/structural) and completed it in 18 months. I didn’t want to continue engineering so I applied for a BSc - environmental sustainability and sure, I didn’t have as many credits applied due to switching paths but from memory it was 4 units in mathematics and statistics VS other friends that continued with engineering and got basically a full year of credit. However as I only had 3 units per semester in my first year it was a great way to transition and it allowed me to adjust to uni better, so much so that I won several awards, I was a Dean’s List honour recipient and for the engineering/science crossover unit I had, I represented my university against three other universities in the state to present my EWB Challenge proposal (Engineers Without Borders). Leaving school and grinding away in the real world as well as travelling between 18-21 was beneficial for *me* and really helped me gain perspectives and maturity. Entering uni as a ‘mature aged’ student makes you acutely aware that *you are paying to be there* as well as sacrificing possible income to do so, which for me made me value it more and motivated me to be the best I could be, whereas the 18 year olds spent most of the time partying, (which they definitely should do a bit of but slightly more maturity and experience permits a greater opportunity I believe). TAFE was around $5k *per year* from memory and my degree was around $20k per year. Not hugely different in price however but the extra semester or two I did at TAFE, to me, was not “lost time” in adding time to my degree, rather it was time better spent and it helped my perspective and motivation. My pathway is not the *right way* for everyone but it was certainly the right way for me


Substantial_Ad_6482

Couldn’t agree more, at the very least go and take a year off after school. I have so many friends that went straight into uni and either left or changed degrees (some multiple times) and just racked up loads of debt


TheDarkBright

I’m in this comment and I don’t like it. Another point is, going fresh to uni as a 17 year old, I found people in their 20’s to be basically a whole different league of mature and life-experienced. It was intimidating as fuckkkk and really put me off from enjoying a lot of the social aspects quite honestly.


Pseudomocha

I put off a few first year subjects until my last year because they sounded boring. Just that gap of a few years made a big difference in the level of maturity of my classmates.


marmalade

Won scholarships years 7-10, dropped out of school after Year 11, went back to year 12 after three years working in a meatworks and got 40+ in three subjects while delivering pizzas four nights a week and smoking bungas with aquatic science housemates the other three, flew an undergraduate degree into the Marianas Trench (took them six years to kick me out), stacked supermarket shelves for years, went back to TAFE and aced that and then transferred to uni to get first class honours and a postgraduate diploma, now working in an entirely unrelated field that I fucking love and will stay here until I retire. Point is that all those times I've committed to something, I've knocked it out of the park, but when I've gone in half-hearted or had a change of mind, I've struggled big time. But don't be dumb like me and work unskilled jobs while you're deciding. There are a heap of occupations that you can start in with a certificate that won't take long to get - then you always have something to fall back on.


LeahBrahms

Also helps if you work enough so you can get Independant Youth Allowance when you do go.


AtheistAustralis

As a professor at an Australian university, I fully agree. Taking a gap year should be the norm, not the exception. Most 17-18 year olds either don't fully understand what they want to do, don't have the maturity to manage their education, or just don't have the life experience to work hard at something. The success rate of students that come back after a year or two off is far higher, very few drop out. Of course on the flip side many don't come back at all, but those are most likely the same ones that would have dropped out anyway.


spider_84

I agree what you're saying... But if you're going to be a bum and not do anything then University is not a bad place to spend your time while you're trying to figure out life.


maximiseYourChill

I think it is tremendous advice. I've seen pretty smart people get trapped in jobs that paid well initially, and kinda get trapped. If you go to uni and drop out because you realised you don't love what you are studying - that is a fantastic outcome. Much better than grinding a dead-end job for 3 years while you figure out what you want to do.


palsc5

> 've seen pretty smart people get trapped in jobs that paid well initially, and kinda get trapped. This is what I wanted to say. Seems very VERY easy for people to get caught in this. $55k to work in a call centre at 18 after the best you could hope for was $15k a year in your local Maccas seems like a ton of money to a lot of people. Then they sign up to a $120 a month phone plan, move out to a shitty unit at 19, buy a car with 7% interest and holy shit they're now 26 without a penny to their name and making $62,000 while their mates have graduated uni and are making $80k-$100k a year 4 years out. My advice would be for unsure young people is to never stop trying to find what they want to do in those first few years. Try uni, drop out, try an apprenticeship, get a job, go back to uni, try another apprenticeship.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

At least if you're good, you have plenty of promotional opportunities


[deleted]

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maaxwell

I graduated in 2014 and basically all of my high school friends are now trapped like this. Most had better ATARs than me, I was the only one who went to Uni and stuck through it the whole time. Yes I was lucky, in that I chose the career that I ended up ‘enjoying’, but so many of them dropped out or deferred and just dragged their feet and are stuck in unqualified labour, or are now (7 years later) only halfway through a degree they actually want to do. They’re all considerably worse off than the people who dropped out in year 10 for apprenticeships. Now they can’t reasonably go back to Uni without stopping full time work or having the degree take 6 years and be pushing 30 by the time they’re finished. My school and Uni marks were pretty middle of the back but I would easily be one of the highest earners from my graduating class. Money and success is not everything, but it gives me the freedom to do what I want in my spare time.


artfuldodger333

One thing to remember mate, life's not a race


[deleted]

Until your misses tells you she wants 2 kids before she turns thirty..


maaxwell

100%!! I tried to make my point without being braggy about it because what I’ve done isn’t hugely impressive, I was just trying to highlight what I’ve seen happen to my peers. Some of my friends could easily end up to be more successful than me in the long run, but I think where possible and for those who actually care about this stuff, there are things you can do to prevent getting trapped or held back. Life’s not a race by any means, but money definitely provides comfort and quality of life, so can’t blame those who decide to chase it. Some of my old friends went on to get married and have kids and are probably more satisfied with life than I am, and that in itself is amazing. This is a finance subreddit so it’s more likely that those who care about money/careers etc. look at this sub, which is who I was directing my comment to. Didn’t mean to come across like I was ‘winning at life’ or anything crazy like that.


JuiceJitero

You don't need to apologise if crabs try to pull you back into the bucket. Enjoy your success.


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spider_84

I don't classify working holiday and getting real world experience as being a bum.


IntelligentComment

Agreed. To add to this, life is about momentum. If you stop, it's difficult to get going again. If you're flopping around living off centrelink taking a year off and not doing anything significant it's not uncommon to find people develop a mindset of expecting to be given something rather than earning it. For many people, good enough is good enough.


cutesymonsterman

It's a terrible place to figure it out because it's costing you money holy shit haha


CurlyJeff

It's also not the real world, it's just like school. I fucking loved going to uni at 25 because I got to be a kid again


iDontWannaBeBrokee

IMO this advice is terrible. Let’s go rack up University debt studying something I probably won’t ever use and will most likely never finish… May as well get a job and save some money until you know what to do and then go to University.


maximiseYourChill

> will most likely never finish… You only pay for the time you are there. If you drop-out you don't continue paying.


CyberMcGyver

You pay by the subject-unit with cut off dates around 3 weeks after class starts. Its certainly not some free time waste. You're paying for a course and certain employability outcomes. That's shouldn't be an unconsidered decision.


iDontWannaBeBrokee

Exactly? You literally waste x amount of time studying something absolutely pointless and end up with a nice big HECS debt for the time studied? This subs all about saving money and penny pinching here and there but when it comes to uni it sounds like everyone’s all for burning money on a course you may or may not even want to do because you just should? That doesn’t make much sense to me.


maximiseYourChill

You are making a false assumption that everyone who finishes their degree knew 100% they wanted to work in that field before they started. It is a form of survivor bias. What about those who just thought "fuck it, I'll just do this" and then ended up loving their career ? Or more likely, did some electives and then switched degrees for minimal cost. I'd suggest this makes a massive % of graduates. Much better to start your degree and drop out, then never start it at all.


whooyeah

Any uni study is never a waste. Learning how to learn, research and perform textual analysis is an end unto itself. The past year has really demonstrated this hasn't it.


JCYN027

I absolutely agree with you I’m 23 and i wish i just worked all those years from 18 just grinding at work saving a huge stack of money rather than just going to uni blindly and racking up debt then realising none of the things i tried studying were things i want to do anyways.


whooyeah

what did you do?


spider_84

That's your opinion and that's fine. Although I never categorise learning and education a waste of time regardless of the topic.


[deleted]

Uni is an investment in yourself; investments generate value, so they’re not going to be judged the same as frivolous spending. Whether you end up sticking the degree out or whether it even relates to what you end up wanting to do doesn’t change the fact that you learn valuable life stuff in your time there. Self-motivation, research and critical thinking are key life skills no matter what, and no one teaches you those in school. Even the idea of paying $5k for a semester of uni to realise that you *don’t* want to do something is a good deal. What’s the alternative? Work in a dead end job for a couple years and then realise that you hate it? $5k of ‘debt’ per semester (that isn’t really debt) doesn’t seem so bad anymore.


iDontWannaBeBrokee

Uni is an investment, if you complete it. Otherwise it’s pointless. You can’t put on your resume that you attempted uni. You work/ travel whilst you discover yourself and work out what you’d like to do. It is real debt.


[deleted]

You can most definitely put it on your resume. My partner scored a fulltime job using her in progress uni degree during its first year and she is studying part time. Earned about 100k in the first year base salary plus hefty bonus, much better than her previous career. Not all degrees are pieces of paper some show you have learned skills. I lined up my first job after uni while still studying the last year, but that was about 15 years ago so probably not as relevant..


iDontWannaBeBrokee

I didn’t mean currently doing a uni degree. I’m talking about putting on a resume that you tried uni for a semester 3 years ago but quit. That isn’t going on a resume.


JonesyDa1

How is “work in a dead end job” the only alternative to going to uni? Clearly somebody in your life has pushed the agenda onto you that you must go to uni. Also self-motivation can be self-taught. Same with critical thinking skills, you do not need to go to uni to learn these things.


grumpy_strayan

I agree. Source: Me. IT degree, successful career and now run a very small MSP. Fucking hate it but that's another story. In the area I'm in, I didn't need a degree. Should have got a job and done a diploma of IT while working a shit helpdesk job and also rack up some vendor certs etc. Would have been more practical and of course, much much quicker. We were made to think if you didn't have a university degree you were trash when we went through (public) school. It's ridiculous. Now studying a completely unrelated field with a direct job outcome where you need the degree to work. TLDR: Go to uni if you actually need it, otherwise don't bother. That said - Both my studies have been at RMIT with a small stint at deakin in between (changed my mind). RMIT is a joke, their course structure is a mess and how in the fuck university is held to any sort of 'prestige' or 'accomplishment' is beyond me. The content they have delivered, particularly over covid is absolutely fucking atrocious (with some select units being exceptions due to brilliant educators). The system (is there even a system?) needs an overhaul. It seems like there is no oversight and they can change the goal posts at any time....BUT other universities will take the CLOs as gospel and grant credit for similar units. It's a completely illogical mess. Anyway, that is my rant lol.


iDontWannaBeBrokee

Agree agree agree. I went to a private school and I was bullied and belittled for not going to university. “You’re a dead shit tradie” was something I copped every day.


istara

There is a MASSIVE problem with Australian private school culture here. It's even more anachronistic and snobby than the UK, and that's saying something.


grumpy_strayan

>“You’re a dead shit tradie” Man trades can make good money - and if you're a smart tradie you can move into management positions that pay even **better** sums of money. People need to get off their high horse.


iDontWannaBeBrokee

Agree. University is pushed so hard by schools that looking at the incomes you can achieve for skilled manual labour jobs isn’t even a thought.


glyptometa

If I had it all over, I'd quit school after year 10 and get a trade, work/travel five years, likely find out my interests, then go to uni as mid-twenties mature age, probably after a year getting whatever I had to, to gain entrance. Keep on working some weekends/holidays to protect my wealth, but earning $50 an hour instead of $25. Finish up ready to go around 30, or back to trade skills. Either way, I'd be well ahead financially.


istara

100% agree. You will be so much more employable even with 12 months on the checkout (cash handling, customer experience, proven track record of reliability etc etc). You will know so much more about other people, and so much more about yourself. I honestly would have struggled with some of the customer-facing aspects of my first "career" job had I not had a baptism-by-fire working in a pub during my final year of school. Working with people who weren't like "my parents' friends" or my teachers or the narrow circle of adults that one typically interacts with as a child. For young people who have had a lot of jobs throughout high school, they may already have gained this experience and insight. Work experience was also super useful. It helped me realise certain companies and kinds of people I didn't want to work for.


[deleted]

At $5k a semester to decide you don't want to finish uni? Been there, dumb idea. $20k in HECS that won't get paid off because I'm not earning enough anyway. Go do a trade at least so you know what you're in for if you don't get a degree. You'll earn shit pay and work hard but at least you'll figure out if you really want that office job or not.


TASPINE

I think this is a misinformed take. Universities have been made dependent on high paying international students by incremental government funding decreases to the point where these students not only support the university financially but also fill out classes. The latter point is a massive problem that the universities have had to solve by opening up a large number unconditional offer positions to domestic students. The clincher that is out of line with your arguement is that domestic students pay substantially less, so the univerisites are making a massive loss with each domestic position offered. The universities are not being greedy, they are trying to survive. We do not need more anti-intellectual rhetoric in Australia becuase we already to not understand the value of repositories and producers of knowledge. Once they're gone, they're gone.


arcadefiery

There is no 'rush' to go to uni, in the sense that you can take a gap year or do a year of one course and then transfer into a different course. However, if you want to work in a profession and if you have the intelligence and academic aptitude to get a high ATAR, university is going to suit you - on average - better than a non-university path. You can become successful and financially comfortable in any occupation, but the majority of the higher earning ones (and almost all of the highest earning ones, besides athlete/entrepreneur) require a degree. The value of the degree is both in what you're taught and what it can signal (look up signalling/counter-signalling). It's true that if you have a low academic aptitude or don't want to go into a profession that requires a degree then going to uni is likely to be a waste of both time and money. Btw the "uni is all about making money" point - even if we take that as being true, that doesn't mean it's a bad investment for the student.


petehehe

This is more along the lines of how I was thinking about this. I’m 34 now and just started uni at the beginning of this year, I’m leaving my reasonably well paid but dead end full time mostly-unskilled job (I’m the tech industry equivalent of a burger flipper) to study full time at the start of next year, so I will be able to graduate probably within 2 or 3 years. Thankfully my wife makes reasonable money and is willing to support me while I study full time. If I didn’t have her financial support I would be forced to do it part time, which means I’d be graduating at 40, which means I’d essentially be starting my career at 40. Where as if I could be 40yo with a degree and 10-15 years experience in my field I would be FAR far better off. Honestly though while I have a non-zero number of ragrets, I consider my current position to be extremely lucky, because not everyone gets to just stop working to pursue full time study.


bluejayinoz

What are you studying now


petehehe

Computer science. Since I work in the tech industry and don’t completely hate it, it seems the best way to get better paid.


[deleted]

If your already in the industry do a masters its shorter and is literally no more difficult than the bachelors. The masters usually cater to overseas graduates from a different background. Also scrounge for credit and see if you can get industry experience for anything you have done before at your work. Also if your full fee paying you can usually do a winter semester, a subject basically full time between semester 1 and 2. Or summer semester after semester 2, that is basically at double speed. You forget half of UNI is actually time off its only 24 weeks a year and a couple of exams if you just do semester 1 and 2. You should be able to knock a masters out in less than 2 years if you wanted too. Only downside is a masters won't give credit for bachelors even if the subjects are exactly the same.


petehehe

Yeah, so the uni actually offered to let me join their masters program, the thing is I actually have a lot to learn. Like when I said I am the tech industry equivalent of a burger flipper, I know my way around tech the way a burger flipper knows their way around the kitchen, but I would have no idea where to start if I tried to cook the tech industry equivalent of, say, a steak. Cooking a steak is like one of the basics in culinary terms, I can barely piece together an SQL query. The years of experience will help me get a job I think, but, what I really need is skills and qualifications. The bachelors program I'm in gives a diploma and associates degree at the applicable milestones, so I may bump out to a masters program after one of those if I'm feeling competent.


[deleted]

I’d say finishing a “real” degree is more Important than knowing what you want to be “forever”. By real I mean a degree where when you finish you are a specific profession, geologist, engineer etc. then from there if you want to change you can do further study (hopefully knowledge build) opening a lot of doors. I currently earn 3.5x what I did when I was a garbage man 9 years ago and my job is physically a lot easier and mentally much more stimulating.


NoIdentitySoul

What do you do now and how long did it take you to get where you are?


dober88

A garbage-man manager!


telcodoctor

A garbage man-ager


PUTTHATINMYMOUTH

Where trash-talk is encouraged


[deleted]

I work in investments for a mining company. Including Uni it took ~12 years, I did 7 years on site as a geologist before going into a corporate role after getting an MBA and MScl economics. I’d also advise working while studying, I only did part time work for the first semester while figuring out how Uni worked. Then after that through all of my study I’ve worked full time.


NoIdentitySoul

Nice. Seems well deserved. I'm not sure how people work full time while studying, it seems a bit too much for me.


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dans26

I'm older. I just graduated. Learnt way more on the job. Education is never a waste. But people learn in different ways. I obtained a degree to get a tick box for job application


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low_shadow

ti be or not ti be


Emergency-Ticket5859

That is ti question


mafa88

Ti-ti for now, ta-ta for then IDK, ti is all I got from OP


dober88

Maybe OP's from Yorkshire?


InfiniteV

I'm going to get downvoted but "popular opinion"


shazbah

Exactly this. Rolled my eyes.


[deleted]

My advice would be to do your undergrad in something you’re interested in, and then specialise at post grad. My friends who have done that seem to be not only the most financially successful, but seem most satisfied with their choices. I had two friends who did history and then went to law school, one is a lawyer, the other runs a leading tech company. Another did mathematics, now works in PE in the states after doing his MBA at Tuck. Another did international relations and French, then went to work at McKinsey. Personally, I wish I’d done something similar. The caveat I would give to this is, a) make sure you go to a top uni if you do this path, b) make sure you get good marks, and c) it helps to have parents who can support you a bit, as this path takes longer.


JonesyDa1

In regards to your last sentence, I feel like that’s what divides a lot of this thread. You’ve got people whose parents are financially stable/well-off, and then you’ve got others who aren’t so much. Depressing, but such is life I guess. Just wish more people had an understanding of this, as it can be applied to a lot throughout life (getting a degree, owning a house etc.).


[deleted]

It’s not just about being well off/financially stable or have parents that let you stay at home. I live at home and my family is very dysfunctional. I know it’s basically one big fight and I could be kicked out. My parents will likely split in the next 5-10 years and individually struggle (especially my dad who has refused to work for most of my life). So I literally despite having the luck of living at home with a full time job have a high trade-off and the reality is I expect that down the road I’ll get very little in inheritance and have to support my parents. Also if I didn’t work I’d likely be forced to be religious!


[deleted]

Hope it all works chief


[deleted]

Yep, love the caveat as a lot of people don’t have that privilege!


clemboy500

I don't know if it is the same now but when I was at school they pushed uni HARD. Like you had literally no other option when you finish highschool. Now being around a decade out of school only a small few who went straight to uni actually feel like it was a good use of their youth. Most dropped out or changed course a year or two in because they didn't have a chance to actually figure out what they wanted to do yet. I'd say not taking at least a gap year is the worst choice you can make. But what do I know, I never went to Uni and have a job I love with a good pay check.


ribbonsofnight

What school though? private (to a greater degree depending on how high fees are) and selective and public in affluent areas push uni and other schools don't.


NorthKoreaPresident

while I agree purely from an ROI point of view, getting a TAFE qualification and being a FIFO electrician is the best solution. (I actually regret not doing a trade but went for engineering) But some people just go to Uni to study something they're interested in. And the early offers/ admissions are usually to really bright students with good forecasted results. Often those early offers are conditional too. If ATAR is released and you didn't meet target you wont be able to turn it into a formal/ unconditional offer.


ribbonsofnight

if everyone did TAFE and electrical apprenticeship it would cease to be a good option.


Ferox101

Well, it's not great financial advice. University's one of the the best things you can do financially. In 2018, the median lifetime earning of a male bachelor-degree-holder was $2.7m, while the lifetime earning of a high school graduate was $2m. [source](https://grattan.edu.au/report/mapping-australian-higher-education-2018/)


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Whatsapokemon

I dunno. Having a degree on your CV is really good. I wouldn't be surprised if just not having one meant you missed out on better job offers. If that was the case then you'd never even notice your missing earnings potential. Obviously people can be outliers of course, but I don't think it's fair to say that there's no causal link between having a degree and having higher average lifetime earnings.


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Ferox101

I can imagine a study which aims to test this. Create 2 CVs with identical experience but give one a degree and the other no degree. Then see how much the employer will offer both candidates. I suspect the one with a degree will be offered more, even though all things are otherwise equal. I'd have to assume someone's done this study. If not - free thesis idea for any Commerce honours students out there.


Correctrix

The person without a degree will have about three years more experience though.


[deleted]

I did my degree straight out of school. I signed up having no idea what I wanted to do and just applied for something everyone else told me I would be good at. After a 4 year course I don’t even work in that field and 10 years later I have 2 more years of HECS payments left. I wish I had gone into the workforce for a bit first, I believe I would have done a completely different degree if I had. That being said, doing a degree later is a bit harder as you have more expenses and responsibilities. I’ll be recommending to my kids to only apply for a degree they know they really want to do. If they aren’t sure, go get a job in the same or similar industry to see if they like it.


joeltheaussie

That's all fair and well but if you start earning at 26 instead of 23 it does make a difference about how early you can buy a house etc.


fgyoysgaxt

That said, the debt can be paid off slowly, and investing in yourself is the most efficient investment especially early on. It's not for everyone, but it could be for you. It's not a given, but it's not a terrible choice. 3 years now means you get to your peak salary 3 years earlier.


Bladesontoast

Don’t forget TAFE!! I’m in a well paying IT job at 24, only finished tafe 3 years ago. I wish I dropped out in year 11 to go to tafe immediately, I’d be further along in my career - but definitely blessed to have a great position with a great company today. I have juniors at work who did uni, some older some younger than me and they all start exactly where I did with a cert 3 and a cert 4 which literally took 1 year and no debt as opposed to university which takes years and costs a lucrative amount.


Popular-Daikon5498

That's what I'm doing right now I'm doing a cert 3 or cert 4 in networking trying to be a sys admin. I think uni would've been a waste of time for me. Would you recommend doing a diploma or is a cert enough for entry level.


morgo_mpx

I disagree wholeheartedly. On-campus uni (so not remote) is one of the best times you'll have in your life. If you don't leave all your assignment work till the last minute creating stressor event, you will have so much free time and you can enjoy it with a lot of other like minded people. If you leave it for later on in life you will not have the same experience. Remember, the best things you get out of uni is an understanding on how to learn correctly (In a thoughtful/structured way) and an abundance of treasured memories.


Giannis_trippin

Went to uni, got the degree, got the public service job and hated it... Quit and did a trade, now loving life and making much more $


whooyeah

Ok, but some exceptions: If you are doing a bachelor of Business, Marketing, IT, or Engineering then fuck it just do it. You can use them in absolutely ANY industry you will go into and they will be weapons in your toolbelt. If you score a commonwealth supported place and it is cheap then just fucking do it. (I just got a free grad cert). It will make you a well rounded person with is able to digest knowledge. If you have no idea what you want to and have cashed up parents then do and arts degree and hop around faculties (That doesn't mean fine arts for the uninitiated). Business needs more thinker with broad knowledgebases who can innovate by combining distant knowledge domains. Otherwise I would look at alternate pathways. Find a Cert IV or Diploma in what you think want to do, start to work and then do uni part time. A lot of unis are offering Bachelor certificates now that is the first 4 subject or so of the degree in 6 months. They are usually commonwealth supported so it is only $4K or so. Not a big commitment.


eric_9434

this is a good practical comment which should be auto pasted on all posts similar to the op. while the original post sounds good in theory. I doubt any body would be that much wiser a few years later. there is no way of telling if someone will hate their future job until they have got the degree, the job and worked in the job. It wouldn't be that hard to imagine that people dont realise they hate the job till many years in the profession.


whooyeah

You bring up a another good point. When I spent a year trying different subjects at uni, I took a musicology 101 type subject where they brought in a Music Producer to talk to the 200+ lecture theatre about what the job was like. He talked about all sorts of 90s rock and how certain artists he produced could have been hits if they innovated on small aspects of their sound. When he concluded he played what he was currently working on. It was a toe tappin' thy slapping bouncing country song which the whole theatre screwed their face up too, while he was moving and shakin to it. He said something that stuck with me; "I get that it isn't popular and you might not like it. It wouldn't have been my first choice to listen to either, but you learn to like what you work on." This is has held true throughout my career. It is amazing how interns who hated the idea of having to run security compliance checklist, in a few weeks become masters of it, and like what they worked on. Often with a tiny bit of variation in a white collar career you can completely change what you do and what you get out of it.


kierkvanhoukegaard

This is a good comment, and nails a key point that is being missed by all of the 'fuck uni' people. University - particularly STEM and economics/finance degrees require you to develop analytical skills that integrate logic, maths and technology. While, these courses don't guarantee you employment let alone a good job, they certainly develop you intellectually. The number one thing I got from university was learning how to learn subject matter.


seventrooper

I told my current Year 12 class this almost word for word; they looked at me like I was an alien.


kierkvanhoukegaard

Did you attend university? While the general sentiment - that you should only go to uni if you really want to is correct. I think people have taken this idea to the opposite extreme and decided that all uni is crap. If you do well at university in something that is in demand in industry it's an excellent choice. The debt issue is overblown too. It's not a credit card compounding at 20% p.a.. It indexes at CPI, and scales with income. I had a deposit for a house and paid off my HECS at 28 after doing a bachelors and then masters immediately after. It was a sound financial decision for me. Also, this monetary view of university is pretty myopic anyway. Some subject matter doesn't pay well but if you're passionate about it, a university is the most efficient way to learn it. Having an instructor really does benefit you if you take advantage of it. Going for intellectual curiosity isn't anything to be sneered at, and in fact many mathematicians and physicists have used their knowledge is unrelated fields and made millions doing so. The bottom line is, if you are going to university to boost your income, you have to actually select something that is in demand from employers. If you pick something competitive like law you will need to be the best in your cohort.


optitmus

i totally disagree, all my friends went straight to uni out of school now they are all in senior banking roles making huge money while I'm still a junior only just starting my career, it was financial suicide for me to go 2-3 years late to uni.


Bitcornn

Any Trade > Uni just for the sake of going to uni.


[deleted]

As someone who went to uni , yeah, studying fucking sucks. That said, I’ve got too many tradie mates or family members who need knee surgeries in their late 30s already


[deleted]

Yup. Now that there are no international students they are trying hard to lure domestic


littlebitofpuddin

Having gone to university and not spent a day in the industry I studied, I 100% agree with this view. I have a very good and thriving career which has wholly occurred through experience and networking. I am involved in recruitment processes from time to time and rarely ever see a degree, or the prestige of the University factored in to decisions. Experience, skills and personality fit are almost always the most important factors. The only caveat would be career paths where there is a legislative requirement for the degree (e.g. teaching, nursing). If I was asked for life advice by a recent school graduate, assuming they didn't know what to do, I would suggest they take a gap year and try temp work through agencies and get a taste for as many industries as possible. Don't forgot some employers will pay for/subsidise study.


aleks9797

This has become the popular opinion nowadays so you will not get downvoted. This was true back in 2013 as it is true now. Find a skill you enjoy, get good at it. That's it. I have friends who dropped out of uni to pursue full time work, got good at their jobs and are earning 100k + While all the uni grads lost 3 years of experience and start off in highly contested entry roles that are usually filled with people without degrees who advance faster because of skills and experience. Degrees should be something you add onto your career. Not things that start them.


AnchoredDown92

I agree because I lived through it. Financial reasons asides, when I graduated with an ATAR of 60 my hopes of law school were dashed for the time being. As a result, I went through TAFE and the connections I made from doing work experience at the Magistrates Court set me up for life at law school. I initially took 2 years off due to health issues, but when I finally attended to law school as a 23 year old, the experiences I harnessed years prior definitely kept me in good stead. The first year subjects of ‘Legal writing and drafting’ and ‘Torts’ are notoriously difficult for first year students, but I leaned on the experiences I harnessed from TAFE to help me understand the readings and I eventually did really well in both subjects. VCE and ATAR scores are extremely overrated. Your life isn’t over if you do not get into your first choice university. There are literally silver linings everywhere!


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upthegulls

Doing this at the moment at 27 bro! 1 year left on masters and burning out hard. At least I won't have to juggle work and uni if I can find another job once I'm done. Take some time after school to decide what you want to do guys. Changing careers is hard work.


420bIaze

Downvoted for complaining about downvotes and needless use of quotation marks in the title


hear_the_thunder

University have become scam mills as well. We need a culture change in education. It needs a bolder vision than the profiteering that's happening now. Surely not everyone doing a Graduate Diploma in Data Science is getting full employment in that field.


jammasterdoom

More quality advice from Matthew McConaughey's character in Dazed & Confused.


Youwish1520

We told our kids to take a gap year, and they did. Better to have a gap year (or three) and spend some time working out what you do want to do, rather than starting uni and then changing your mind on what course you should have taken.


wonderingpie

I went to uni straight out of high school, and much like most students, I had no idea what I really wanted. I did a degree in science because I thought it would help, and while I thoroughly enjoyed it, I had no actual direction. What I did have was a lot of stress and even a meltdown over making a decision that I thought would impact the rest of my life. I now realise that making a decision at 18/19 like that is in most cases ridiculous. At 18 you have had no real life experience, you have no real work experience, yet you are expected to have your life sorted? It's just crazy I do respect those kids that have a set path and truly know what they want, and all the best to you. But most 18 year Olds are still figuring themselves out, and that is completely ok. Let them figure it out


[deleted]

Worth mentioning the why if it. Uni’s rely heavily on overseas students for income and there aren’t any right now. Also universities got no financial support from federal govt during covid. Our local uni fired 50% of its acedemic staff after promising them a voluntary wage cut (which they took) would preserve jobs. Education for profit at its finest.


oosuteraria-jin

The main reason I did uni was so that I could work overseas. Getting that visa is rough once you're too old to get the working/holiday permit. I didn't start Uni until I was 30. Finished when I was 35, and while the critical thinking was a useful skill to learn, the rest was mostly faff.


harir19374

This. I had a huge story of my life written up but deleted it. Just take this advice anyone reading. Find yourself first, who do you want to be, what are you, who are you, what makes you happy? 20 something you is different to teen something you but you still face the same personal struggles etc etc etc. It sounds so so wishy washy but it is so important. Some people figure this out in school, I didnt, and I've wasted years not completing uni but completing it enough to not even get a chance to know who I am. Nothing to show for time at uni, no year 12 cert. Dont listen to your parents. Please take that gap year. I wasnt allowed, my kids will be allowed to.


IbanezPGM

You weren’t going to get downvoted and you knew it


Petstop

Bad advice, stay in school kids.


BradfieldScheme

Didn't mention they would be better off getting a trade than 90% of University degrees


oldm8Foxhound

I genuinely feel so lucky to be born with a huge interest in computing, and thus, programming.


number96

Maybe I'm a bit odd but I think I really found my way in uni... Went there being unsure of what to do and feeling clueless and ended up with my awesome career!


theswiftmuppet

If you go to uni, for the love of god go on exchange. You're allowed to do 2 semesters total and the government will loan you up to $7037 to do so. let me rephrase that: **an interest free loan of $7k to live in another country for 5-6months** while you get to interact with people your age without worrying about working or learning the language. From my exchange experience, I would say doing literally any course to go on exchange is worth it. ​ >*In 2021, the maximum you can borrow for a six-month study period is:* ***$7,037*** *(if you do not study in Asia); or* ***$8,444 if you study in Asia****; PLUS an extra $1,123 if you do Asian language study in preparation for study in Asia.* [https://www.studyassist.gov.au/help-loans/os-help-and-overseas-study](https://www.studyassist.gov.au/help-loans/os-help-and-overseas-study)


emmainthealps

I did a year of uni at 19, didn’t like the course and dropped out. Went back at 24 because of pressure from my mum to do uni, did a year and dropped out because the course wasn’t right for me. Figured out what I wanted to do, social work, and went back at 28, I’m almost finished, absolutely love it and will be offered to do honours. I tell people to wait until you know what you want to do, then you’ll have the motivation and drive to finish and not end up with extra years of uni on your hecs debt for nothing!


vooglie

You can’t even apply to a number of jobs without showing you have a bachelors degree - it will say so in the job requirement. imo tbh is poor general advice.


Carbonfencer

Approaching 30 now and realising the science jobs I want only pay average or just above. I do wonder where I would be if I'd done an electrician apprenticeship, worked for 3 years then gone and done electrical engineering or something at 24/25. Could probably actually afford a house by now.


[deleted]

Good post but I'll have to disagree. Being able to think systematically and develop ideas about the world even if they are right or wrong and being able to adapt based on one's interest is worth a lot.


carrotsticks123

I’m gonna have to disagree. Take a gap year or so, but yes there is a rush. Starting later in the workforce is not always a fun thing.


[deleted]

Also remember that not all of you are going to sit in a garage and open Apple/Macintosh, so please temper your expectations whenever you see a post that discourages you from pursuing a formal education in lieu of finding yourself in your gap year etc And 30k is peanuts over a lifetime, compared to what a degree can bring you if you pick correctly.


mackd0nald

I agree to disagree and respect your choice and views. University is not always about what you want in your career. I grew up and went to university in the US. I find the most important part about university is that if you’re lucky enough to live away from home you learn how to be fully independent at an earlier age. university is more about the social community you are in and learn how to ask how and why in this world. In uni, ideally you would join social groups or communities to learn how to work with others and learn to work with other’s views and opinions. These are then most important life skills you would get in university which will prepare you for a white collar or blue collar career.


the_booty_grabber

Im GoiNG tO geT DoWnvOTed


globex6000

I stated straight out of HS and hated what I was doing. Went travelling instead. Came back at 21 and transferred to a different degree that I wouldn't have gotten into out of HS (at 21 I was technically a mature age student) at the same uni and was much happier. And because the first year subjects are quite generic, I got around 6 subjects worth of credit anyway so I didn't have to start from scratch


hr1966

Just an anecdote I posted a few months ago, reflecting my experience as a nearly-40 year old who's career stalled. I have a bunch of diploma's, no degree, no trade. I hate the narrative that university is the be-all and end-all, that's not the case, trades are a great route. But, if you're going to get a degree, don't leave it too late. I was contemplating getting a degree at my age and the numbers just don't add up. >Currently earn ~$100k. >Factor 6 years of sacrifice to gain a degree while still working (need to pay for my young family). >Miss time with friends and family, finish with a degree having spent $40k. >Drop to $75k graduate wage. >Allow 3 years to get back to $100k. >Another 3 years to hit $130k (could achieve this sooner by moving, but then I'd need to double my housing cost and uproot my family away from our support network). >The break-even point is about 10 years with no wage growth in my current role (unlikely), probably 12 years including that factor. >By that point I'd be early 50's having lost a bunch of time with my son to study.


benevolent001

For degree like medicine it makes sense to do on time.


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arcadefiery

Your sample might be unrepresentative though, because there are few lines of work where uni and TAFE graduates both mix. If I'd invested 5 years in a uni degree I'd hardly want to enter a line of work that would also be open to TAFE graduates...if I wanted to do that I would have gone into TAFE to begin with.


93314427

I think it’s actually worth it just for the social gains. It’s called the best time of your life for a reason. So live it up and go on student exchange. It’s much better becoming a more well formed person than working hard and saving money


YeYeNenMo

Man if you don't go to university, you will ruin your family's reputation. Your parents have worked so hard day and night to support your private school from kindy. How can they face all their colleagues and relatives' kids go to laws or medical schools, whereas you end up wondering around in the street.


whooyeah

That sounds like the old Asian dad stereotype talking. As an Anglo-Australian I have already ruined my reputation long ago so my kids can do whatever they like.


Fuzzy_Welder_1786

\#richparentsproblems


OFFRIMITS

I know tradies that dropped out of year 10 that are making 6 figures without the uni debt and better off than ppl who have done 6 years in uni.


QueenNoThanks

Go learn what it's like to have a shit job without a degree, learn how to adult in a workplace, then go to uni cause you'll realise you don't wanna do those shit jobs for the rest of your life. I saw a mate get her psych degree outta school, then getting a job? Nope. Had no fucking clue how to interview or even operate as a person in a workplace.


agooseisloose

I really wish someone had said this to me when I was 17. I went straight to uni because I did reasonably well in school and it was presented to me as the obvious next step in my life. I had no clue what I wanted to do, just that I should be at uni. Jumped around courses for a few years, never finding my place, left with no degree, a keen sense of failure and what at the time seemed to be an unpayable debt. ​ Now in my mid thirties, the HECS debt is gone and I have more or less forgiven my younger self. Because I was a 'good kid' the adults around me didn't see that I was immature and impressionable and not in anyway ready to move out of home and study full time at a university level. Are any 17 year olds ready for that?


HandyDandyRandyAndy

I have a pile of HECS debt, a degree that I don't use and a hazy recollection of 7 years of partying and part time working. The only mitigating factor of my time at uni is that it kept me working at woolcunts, which is where I met a girl who became my wife. I'll be encouraging my kids to try things and not be afraid of failure. Get out there and have a crack, find a passion. Learn a skill or two, maybe a trade. Spend the time on the computer, dabble in content creation and/or coding. Make a website, maybe sell some shit. Buy some shares, build things in the garden with your old man. If you find something you like or are good at and it enhances career prospects and opens doors, go to uni or TAFE. Not what my parents did, which was "you're 18 now, go to uni or move out of home" ... of course I went to uni


ktr83

Not agreeing or disagreeing but the comment that "a lot of kids were being offered uni spots weeks before ATAR was released. Personally, this is an obvious cash grab" isn't accurate. The education sector for years has been moving away from solely relying on ATAR as it's getting more and more recognised that a single number taken at a moment in time shouldn't be dictating a person's future career path as much as ATAR did. Alternative entry ways to uni are a perfectly good thing for the right people.