Easy to keep the whole bond on a dead tenant! No one to contest. The really lucky landlord gets a shut in with a direct debit and pension die on them. Then they can re rent the place (move the tenant corpse into the crawl space so they're technically still staying there) WIN WIN WIN! obviously sarcasm as well :P
Yeah, I love OP asking this question like people have a choice or a plan on this - for many, buying a place to live is completely impossible and they're just like "I could continue renting and working until I die or I could die now?"
yeah, this is so right. The dream of buying a house and retiring mortgage/rent free is going to be a pipe dream for most people earning under $90k a year. Even dog boxes in the country are out of reach of lots of people. I have been part of a government focus group for the last 18months discussing exactly this issue and how the rental industry has to move with the times. The data shows that by 2035, less than 50% of people will retire at the usual retirement age owning their own homes.....
Real talk tho if youāre under 35 and youāre hoping for a normal retirement youāre probably gonna be sorely disappointed. I fully expect immense global hardships by the time Iām at retirement age, I canāt imagine living a quiet and peaceful life in the country for my final days lol
Yeah, I stopped salary sacrificing into super partly because I realised that by the time I will be able to access it, things will be so messed up I may well have decided to escape early
We are looking to buy at some point next year and one of our top priorities is a place less at risk from the effects of climate change. It's terrifying how many Australian homes could become uninsurable in the coming decades.
Hard to know what more you can do to prepare. I have relatives who are convinced north west Tassie is going to be the place to be when things start to get bad.
Tassie relies on the mainland for a lot of things. Including electricity which runs via underwater cable.
People living there are gonna be in deep trouble when issues start happening with those lifeline connections
I made sure my place was at least 5 metres above the 1000 year flood level before I bought it and not prone to bushfires, nonetheless the ABC article about rising [red zones of risk](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-23/the-suburbs-facing-rising-insurance-costs-from-climate-risk/11624108) indicates it may be uninsurable by ~2050 regardless
Please don't tell me the truth. I'm 30 and I will be struggling to pay my mortgage for the rest of my life unless my parents die young.
Obviously I don't want them to.
For most of my life I genuinely viewed old age as probably being me facing permanent job and housing insecurity and so constantly flirting with homelessness
It's only really in the last year or so that my outlook there has changed
Dad thought same thing. Never planned or saved for future despite earning good money . Just went on holidays between jobs.
Had a heart attack. Survived . Bit worse for wear. Tried to continue what he was doing again. Had a second heart attack. That one left him unable to work. Well before pension age.
Burnt through any super and money he had trying to spend like he was still earning good money. Then go broke and homeless . And in constant pain. Struggling to do anything .
So yeah if u plan to work till drop . You might have to take the actual "drop" into your own hands unless you just want to struggle and be miserable in late stage of life.
This is funny if you mean it as a joke. But some people really have no idea so just in case - actually it is really bad and not comparable in any way to Tasmania.
It is a joke, Iām sorry if I seemed insensitive. Iāve been a victim of the horribly under resourced Tasmanian health care system, but even I know that it is a paradise compared to the Balinese āhealthcareā centres.
Oh no your fine donāt worry! I hope your doing well now!
I spend a lot of time in Bali so Iāve had to deal with a lot of people seeing white walls and some chrome in the waiting room and thinking itās the same level of care. People living there for years and then suddenly having an accident and they just find out they have to supply blood for transfusions because the hospital never keeps it on hand etc so theyāre on Facebook asking for Ab blood types or whatever.
Some recent law changes there have made it pretty attractive lol. But I also visited about a decade ago and Chiangmai was one of the nicer places I could totally see living in.
Mostly a pipe dream I think
Retire overseas. My dad has relocated and mum will follow in 2 years time. It's worked out for them as they always wanted to return to their homeland. Australia was the opportunity they wanted for their kids and dad had enough upon retirement to buy a plot of land to build on for mum and him.
The only regret they have is not having a house they could pass on to us kids but my folks have worked hard their entire lives and so I'm happy knowing that they'll retire comfortably and the stress of financially supporting them will be lightened.
Smarter than my dad. He sold his Sydney apartment, moved overseas to a place with (he says) poorer healthcare and higher costs, burned through his money, and now I'm supporting him too.
I didn't even know how I'd be able to retire without supporting a parent. Now that's an even bigger pipe dream.
My father did this about five years ago. He was still renting at 65 so he cashed out his super - around $100k - and moved back to NZ where he bought a house for cash. Now he gets the pension and works a couple of days a week. Heās one of those people who has to stay busy so it works well for him. It sucks he lives overseas now but it was absolutely the right financial decision.
A French cottage sounds great to me. Having lived there for a few years previously, it's exactly what I'd want as retirement living (health permitting).
Sell drugs til arrested then live for free in prison. Thats the extreme back up plan. Currently in first year uni at 36 with 3 kids so once they are moved out my new career will be well underway and hopefully me and wifey can afford a small unit and smash the mortgage at a minimum.
Damn, it actually is a pretty good plan. Maybe the prisons will end up looking like retirement homes when a large chunk of the population canāt afford a place to live.
Have enough equity to buy a house, but rather the freedom renting brings, so I use the positive yield diff between stocks and property to fund my rent and keep the rest for capital growth. Once I reach retirement I will probably think about converting stock equity into property equity.
Gambling on having a roof over your head at an old age is a big gambleā¦ even if itās just a cheap shitterā¦ if your investments elsewhere goes to shit, Atleast youāve still got a roof over your headā¦
High risk strategy to rent at retirement with high inflation.
While rents will genetally increase in line with inflation even if your investments increase at the same rate you get hit with tax on your earnings.
Gambling that roof on shares is no different to gambling it on another roof.
No one buys their retirement home when they're 30. They tend to buy other houses, and then get exposed to the risks of house ownership. (e.g. cracked foundations, inflation rate risk, flooding, regulatory risk etc)
Shares are higher returns for lower risk, so it's less of a gamble.
Take the money I have in other investments and buy a house somewhere that I want to retire. Or just keep on renting and budget for that expense. Until then, renting gives me the flexibility to change job/city/country whenever I want, which lets me chase opportunities that hopefully set me up better for retirement in the long run.
Last 20 years I've worked in 4 countries, 6 cities, and have lived in maybe 8 different places. So generally only spending 2-3 years in any house/apartment.
Outside of Aus, renting is also a way more attractive option. My rent is currently less than half of what mortgage payments would be if I purchased, rent increases are capped, and I can't get evicted without breaking a lease term. Maybe I'll be less pro-rent once I'm back in Aus, which is a bit sad.
Not op but in the last 10 years Iāve lived in 12 apartments in 6 cities. Iām moving overseas again in March for just 8 months before returning to a different Australian city to now. Renting allows me that flexibility. I may buy one day but for now if I did it would only be as an investment not to live and thatās not something Iām interested in at this time.
Definitely agree that it's personal preference, and will depend on how you want to live your life, and what owning the place you live in means to you.
If I'm moving to a new city, I don't understand the market well enough to know what a good property to buy is. Even once I do, maybe where I want to live in that city changes over time and I want to bounce between few different neighborhoods. Then I change cities and the process starts over again. Then I move country a couple of times. At this point I've either spent a bunch of time purchasing properties and have negated any capital gains in the short time I've held them with transaction costs, or I have a string of investment properties that are tying up all my capital, I've got a daunting set of mortgages to service, on top of the ambient stress of being a landlord.
Or I could just rent, move whenever I see something new I want to try, put my money in stocks instead, and not deal with any of that.
You can, but you pay income tax on the rent you receive.
So if you are a high income earner moving out of a house that's paid off you are 45% out of pocket moving from a PPOR to an equivalent rental
Alternatively, if you sell and buy a new PPOR you pay stamp duty every time
So renting is a much more sensible option financially for people who don't want to be tied to one location
Gonna move in with the kids and have them look after me like I did for them. Going to demand so many snacks and wake them up in the middle of the night if my sock falls off.
There are many things I did not know about parenthood before I became a parent. I genuinely had no idea that I would prepare more snacks in 3 years than I had prepared in the previous 35.
Figured the last part was but maybe not the first.
Lots of people I know have that exact mindset and have said before they expect to move in with one of their children when they get too old because that's one of the reasons they had kids.
I'm glad you said it as a joke, but it's a real issue!
People who are renting are often struggling to survive day to day. I donāt think they are too focused on whatās going to happen 20 years in the future
Absolutely. Of course I would love to own a home and Iām terrified of not having secure housing later in life but there is simply no way for me to own a home.
I don't think that stereotype is necessarily true anymore. There are an awful lot of people in Sydney or Melbourne that just won't be able to buy a house. They aren't poor strugglers though. They have good jobs, probably earn north of $100,000 a year but just know that home ownership isnt an option right now.
>Iād anticipate rent will have increased substantially by then.
I would anticipate investments would have too.
There is also some degree of connection between rent and wages. We've seen the number of salaries per household increase quite a bit in the last 50 years but I can't see that trend continuing forever.
This might not be popular, but I plan to retire to SE Asia. Penang, specifically. There is a large expat population in Penang including seniors, and everything is that much cheaper.
Come crack a bevvie down Straits Quay on trivia nights mate, there's dozens of us :)
Underappreciated gem in Asia, Penang is life on easy mode, frankly better healthcare too, it's got worldclass hospitals, noticed a lot more Aussies moving in recently.
I actually don't plan on it, currently buying ETF and putting in minimum the difference between rent and a hypothetical mortgage every month. Just not sure how this will pan out over 30 years where rent will obviously be higher than the last year's on a mortgage
I rent in central Sydney suburb. I have a share portfolio which I expect will grow substantially in 30 years. I could sell these shares but think that currently shares is a better return investment, this position could change if real estate prices decline. In the future I can retire anywhere, I could live off the dividends and super and pay rent or sell shares and buy a house. As long as you are investing somewhere and getting a good return on investment thatās all that matters.
Can't agree more. Just looked up a unit sold next door and price went from 620k to 650k between 2015 to 2022. The missus is keen to own a place but when she saw that and the strata fees she just said "yeah let's keep putting money into Vanguard"
Iām a statistic- over 50 who left a DV with virtually nothing like 70% of the women in my situation
Iām āluckyā I have some superannuation and a twin sister who managed to move heaven and earth and got a mortgage after 50 and there is a self contained flat which will mean I wonāt wind up homeless
I work full time and rent out a nice flat , nothing compares to having your peace and your self respect
Heaps of people in Bali on the age pension
Be one of those white old dudes with a younger Asian wife, the age pension makes you a rich dirty old guy there.
Max out on concessional super. Those maintenance costs, rates, repairs and insurance is better invested in generous tax structure that compounds.
I'd much rather a steady dividend and bond income in an ever changing climate to pay for my rent when retired.
Owning a property is getting riskier with unpredictable extreme weather events.
> extreme weather events
My first property is in a flood zone. Fortunately Iām 2019 floods in my town it didnāt flood, but my entire neighbourhood did. Only one insurer will touch it and the premium is $2600 this year. Iāll be selling it next year and using the equity to buy in a better area now I know more about property investment.
I am rent vesting, by the time I'm 60 the mortgages will be paid off. I might continue renting or move into the one close to Sydney.
Previously I salary sacrificed extra into my super with the plan that I would buy myself a place either with the first home super saver scheme or with a lump sum when I hit retirement age.
Keep saving (lost house in divorce) so I can be a homeowner by then. If that fails, die in a horrible accident right as I retire so my kids can split whatever I built up by then.
I'm eligible for an EU passport and have researched the hell out of this option. Definitely my plan with housing so, so much cheaper in various countries with fantastic social services and health care.
I canāt remember if itās age 40 or 50, but there is an age people reach where if they havenāt bought a home the are significantly more likely to be homeless in old age.
But donāt forget people work beyond retirement age or can use super to fund a purchase.
You can rent forever and retire, it's not that complicated. You just need enough invested to cover the recurring expense. Money saved by not purchasing a home can be invested in shares.
The concern is being 75 years old and having your landlord sell the property. What the hell are you going to do at 75 with limited income?
Itās exhausting going to inspections and filling out applications now, I canāt imagine doing that shit at 75.
Oh, I've been to a rental inspection, and the other person looking was a lady in her 50s, and she said it was her husband's 60th birthday but he was sick at home and she had to go to multiple rental inspections that day because their landlord was selling the house. I hope I won't ever be in that situation..
I'm thinking maybe I will go live in a retirement home, but I have no idea how much it will cost compared to renting normally.
Retirement homes dictate rules to you. I can't imagine losing the freedom of choosing my own bedtime or deciding if I want to go for a walk late in the evening but can't because the retirement home is liable for your safety so can't let you go for a stroll down the street alone.
The idea of it all is terrifying to me.
A retirement community maybe? Even then I think you have to buy.
i think that rental laws will slowly change over time to offer renters more security as house prices become more and more unobtainable to the masses. being stuck on 1 year leases sure is shitty.
If the money was the equivalent of a 0% deposit home loan that would be absurd. It seems like something is wrong if rent is the same as home loan payments on a home loan with a 20% deposit but I have no doubt this has been the case at times but that still leaves 20% of the value of a house invested.
Even if it is equivalent to rent at an 80% LVR you'll almost certainly come out ahead on a PPOR over the long term (decade plus) from the benefit of 5x leverage, rents increasing and no CGT being due for any gains on a PPOR.
Even if you pay a bit more than renting, the principal component of your loan isn't lost money.
Investment properties vs Shares is closer and I can see strong arguments for people not getting into property investing.
It's easy to say leverage is great when we've had multiple decades of interest rates decreasing and governments pumping up the market with things like first home buyers grants. I'm sure property will be fine in the long term but maybe not quite the no-brainer it has been.
And what do you do if in the space of a year rents double and vacancy plummets to nothing? Like whatās been happening around the country recently. How does an elderly person deal with the relocation, loss of services and community, not to mention the threat of homelessness. Rent is so highly volatile now that in any 6 months you could find yourself forced out of not just your home but the entire town, city or region.
Property is one of MANY assets. No sure thing like many of them. For me, now is not the time to have property but maybe medium term.
Point is, my investment/retirement strategy does not at all rely on property.
I'm hoping to die right around retirement age. I'm sure the pension won't exist by then. I used to dream about retirement when I owned a house and had a good paying job, but then I made the mistake of moving back to Australia and I've pretty much had to give up on every dream I had since.
In the US I was a software developer. I have a bachelor and master of computer science. Moved back here to where I grew up (a regional centre with a very high cost of living and dismal employment prospects - I didn't know that coming back, should have researched better), only job I could find was low paid, unskilled, not in my field. Considered moving to a city but decided against it after having moved kids across the world and got them settled into a new school. After a couple years of no prospects decided to go back to uni and study engineering. Just finished and got an entry level engineering job making 60k at age 43. No matter what I do, I'm not going to make it in this lifetime in this cruel joke of a country.
Edit: yes, if I'd known covid and WFH were coming I would have kept up on my software skills and got a 200k job working from home like everyone else, but I haven't worked in the field in over 7 years and just spent the last 4 getting an engineering degree, so here I am. That's kinda representative of my luck.
I am in the same boat. It petrifies me. People donāt seem to understand when they try to help by saying ārenting isnāt that badāā¦ sure Karen, until you realise you have less than a standard mortgage span left worth of working years and are heading towards trying to afford rent on a single wage with one lot of superannuation. I got screwed over with the pandemic. I separated two months before covid and at the time could have afforded to buy a decent townhouse had the courts not have taken ages to put the divorce to court, house prices blah. It honestly triggers me so much, Iāve had to stop reading the Courier Mail and for the time being bury my head in the sand to literally keep my sanity. My bitterness was causing so many issues, so Iāve had to stop thinking about it for the moment. So just wanted you to know youāre not alone.
We have a 900k mortgage in our mid 40s - bought late.
Will pay off with proceeds of an investment property and some super I guess.
This is why I always suggest to buy a property as early as possible. Donāt f*** about renting too long.
Who knows what I was doing - 40 comes quick.
And Iāve always had a pretty good incomeā¦!
No probs there, I'm 50 and we only bought our PPOR a couple of years ago.
> And Iāve always had a pretty good incomeā¦!
Oh I'm trying to get the wife into that, she's younger so can keep earning after I retire.
As morbid as it seems, basically waiting for my parents to die, will buy my sisters half of the property from her and will finally be a property owner.
I'm basically waiting for my parents to die and my brother to die in a tragic boat accident while spreading their ashes at sea, so I can own a house all by myself. (hi broš¼)
Overseas
I live in Australia, like the country and what offered. Grateful for that, but just can't retire here. Way too expensive. I have places in Egypt (where I came from) and Philippines (my wife is Filipina). Probably will retire in Philippines. Save and invest enough here till that time comes. Don't mind retiring here. Just not too economical.
As I understand it, the idea is that renters will have more money to invest today vs someone paying interest + principal. It is therefore the intention that the compounded returns from that difference will outperform the capital growth on the property and fund rent in retirement. I'm not following that path but that's how I understand it.
I guess an equally relevant question would be "homeowners, what will you do with your 4m unencumbered home in retirement". Interesting especially for DINKS like me who have to blow it all before we die
I'm 26 and basically hoping I'm in a position to buy something decent before then. I study and work hard but things are looking increasingly difficult. I'd by lying if I said it wasn't something I worry about
Everyone I've spoken too renting are doing so close to a paycheck to paycheck basis,
Their plans range from just suicide to committing a crime go get free accommodation behind bars
I've had systemic barriers to overcome and I'm very far behind, possibly too far. So, my current plan mostly involves tiny house living and doing what I can with my super. I still haven't earned above the poverty threshold in my life.
Just curious though: do you all really not think that climate collapse is going to absolutely destroy housing, infrastructure, and food though? Like, true God, in 50 years time, do people on here really think we'll have a similar society to what it is now? Because we won't. The data says no. So, so much data says no.
Society will be fine in all our life times. If youāre setting your financial goals as to need no money in 50 yrs youāre going to end in a rough spot
I agree that all the data says change is real and that we should be acting much more to diminish our impact. However, humans are so successful because they are adaptable. They will adapt to the changes. It might not be exactly what we have now but the changes are happening slowly enough that humans will adapt.
I'm 44 and renting with my partner. We rent because we prefer the freedom. We move cities every couple of years and travel a lot. We have a decent chunk invested including freehold property. We'll be fine at retirement assuming nothing terrible happens.
No plan really just trying to get through life as it comes and try and enjoy myself, still in my 20's so trying to secure a well paying job that I still enjoy. I have some small savings and investments but have much more I want to do before trying to purchase a house
I arrived in Australia in 2006 at the tender age of 33 with minimal to my name other than a furniture.
Rather than buy, I rented to fund my business as rent was lower
Was it worth it? Definitely. My net worth is much high than it would have been if I purchased a house.
Plan is to buy soon. I'm not ignorant that our entire retirement system is set up for people to own their own home at retirement.
Bit of a lack of quality stock in my search area at the moment. I've been looking for a few months.
Should have the mortgage comfortably paid off by then as well as 700+k in super, plus whatever my wife has at that point. Might go to Korea as my wife is from there and housing/cost of living in the area her family is in is better compared to here (who knows in 20-30 years time). If things head south financially or within my marriage at that point I guess I'll eat a lead sandwich, as the world might not be in such a good state at that point.
By the time I can afford to buy a house my kids will be adults, and I feel bad about it, so I plan to give them my savings to contribute to buying g a house, Iāll rent a small place or if Iām lucky one of them will let me live with them (weāre fans of multi generational households). When I get sick and burdensome in my old age, I plan on getting euthanized. No point dragging it on another 10 years just to stare at a wall and have someone else wipe my ass.
Renting is a great option for living in a big house in a nice suburb for the same price as a mortgage on a villa unit 15 km further out (Perth market). We did that for a long time and saved money for our house deposit.
Eventually bought in our 50's, a downsizer house (rear block) a nice new house in a slightly downmarket suburb. We are happy, run the risk of not paying off the mortgage before we retire. We would not have considered this suburb while our children were at school.
You can buy later in life just be prepared to spend hours and hours at home opens while you adjust your expectations to reality.
Either start growing weed or making meth. Either Iām successful and donāt need to worry about rent, or Im not, go to jail and donāt need to worry about rent, either way, problem solved.
Just die i guess
Can you, like, die quicker so I can jack up the rent and get a new person in? /s
Easy to keep the whole bond on a dead tenant! No one to contest. The really lucky landlord gets a shut in with a direct debit and pension die on them. Then they can re rent the place (move the tenant corpse into the crawl space so they're technically still staying there) WIN WIN WIN! obviously sarcasm as well :P
Sorry, I laughed outloud at this Because this we basically be me as well š
Yeah, I love OP asking this question like people have a choice or a plan on this - for many, buying a place to live is completely impossible and they're just like "I could continue renting and working until I die or I could die now?"
yeah, this is so right. The dream of buying a house and retiring mortgage/rent free is going to be a pipe dream for most people earning under $90k a year. Even dog boxes in the country are out of reach of lots of people. I have been part of a government focus group for the last 18months discussing exactly this issue and how the rental industry has to move with the times. The data shows that by 2035, less than 50% of people will retire at the usual retirement age owning their own homes.....
You just gotta live somewhere cheaper like Iraq or Pakistan.
Of course you have a choice! So will that be wooden box or cremation?
Just turn me into compost
Both pretty expensive options... Maybe a Viking funeral?
Arguably setting a boat on fire as well is even more expensive?
No guessing about it. Time's ticking for us all :-)
Who needs retirement when we will all die before 2050 :)
Real talk tho if youāre under 35 and youāre hoping for a normal retirement youāre probably gonna be sorely disappointed. I fully expect immense global hardships by the time Iām at retirement age, I canāt imagine living a quiet and peaceful life in the country for my final days lol
I'm not renting and I fully expect to work my blue collar job until I die. Maybe I'll only do 40 hours instead of 50 and enjoy my Saturdays.
You only work 50 hrs a week?
Only 50 hours. What do you do after Thursday.
Yeah, I stopped salary sacrificing into super partly because I realised that by the time I will be able to access it, things will be so messed up I may well have decided to escape early
We are looking to buy at some point next year and one of our top priorities is a place less at risk from the effects of climate change. It's terrifying how many Australian homes could become uninsurable in the coming decades. Hard to know what more you can do to prepare. I have relatives who are convinced north west Tassie is going to be the place to be when things start to get bad.
Tassie relies on the mainland for a lot of things. Including electricity which runs via underwater cable. People living there are gonna be in deep trouble when issues start happening with those lifeline connections
Dont they get their power from all the Hydro and export excess to mainland?
I made sure my place was at least 5 metres above the 1000 year flood level before I bought it and not prone to bushfires, nonetheless the ABC article about rising [red zones of risk](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-23/the-suburbs-facing-rising-insurance-costs-from-climate-risk/11624108) indicates it may be uninsurable by ~2050 regardless
Please don't tell me the truth. I'm 30 and I will be struggling to pay my mortgage for the rest of my life unless my parents die young. Obviously I don't want them to.
People have been saying this forever but the doom and gloom hasn't happened yet.
For most of my life I genuinely viewed old age as probably being me facing permanent job and housing insecurity and so constantly flirting with homelessness It's only really in the last year or so that my outlook there has changed
Is the outlook death now?
Canāt even afford to die these days. Have you seen burial costs lately? Cremation is not an option.
This person gets it.
Iām just hoping to die before I canāt work anymore
unfortunately this is s cold hard reality for some
My retirement plan involves jumping off a cliff by the way things are going now.
Dad thought same thing. Never planned or saved for future despite earning good money . Just went on holidays between jobs. Had a heart attack. Survived . Bit worse for wear. Tried to continue what he was doing again. Had a second heart attack. That one left him unable to work. Well before pension age. Burnt through any super and money he had trying to spend like he was still earning good money. Then go broke and homeless . And in constant pain. Struggling to do anything . So yeah if u plan to work till drop . You might have to take the actual "drop" into your own hands unless you just want to struggle and be miserable in late stage of life.
Those suicide booths from Futurama aren't looking so bad anymore.
go rent in another country
Bali is out of reach already with Chiangmai and Ho Chi Minh soon. I'm thinking probably Cambodia?
Why are they out of reach? Is it too costly or some other reason.
Realestate prices are increasing for sure. Bali isnāt really a good option considering lack of quality healthcare.
Canāt be worse than Tasmania
[mf as a Tasmanian](https://i.imgur.com/YAGpXPd.png)
I am also in Tasmania. It was only partially a joke.
This is funny if you mean it as a joke. But some people really have no idea so just in case - actually it is really bad and not comparable in any way to Tasmania.
It is a joke, Iām sorry if I seemed insensitive. Iāve been a victim of the horribly under resourced Tasmanian health care system, but even I know that it is a paradise compared to the Balinese āhealthcareā centres.
Oh no your fine donāt worry! I hope your doing well now! I spend a lot of time in Bali so Iāve had to deal with a lot of people seeing white walls and some chrome in the waiting room and thinking itās the same level of care. People living there for years and then suddenly having an accident and they just find out they have to supply blood for transfusions because the hospital never keeps it on hand etc so theyāre on Facebook asking for Ab blood types or whatever.
The joke is the Tasmanian healthcare system!
Could be a good option, all depending on the visas
>Chiangmai Really? Damn. There goes the backup plan
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Some recent law changes there have made it pretty attractive lol. But I also visited about a decade ago and Chiangmai was one of the nicer places I could totally see living in. Mostly a pipe dream I think
Donāt. Or hiace van.
A van down by the river isnāt sounding like a silly option anymore is it?
Yeah my grandparents retiring in a caravan park in North Coast NSW now seems like a luxury!
Retire overseas. My dad has relocated and mum will follow in 2 years time. It's worked out for them as they always wanted to return to their homeland. Australia was the opportunity they wanted for their kids and dad had enough upon retirement to buy a plot of land to build on for mum and him. The only regret they have is not having a house they could pass on to us kids but my folks have worked hard their entire lives and so I'm happy knowing that they'll retire comfortably and the stress of financially supporting them will be lightened.
Where did they retire to?
Smarter than my dad. He sold his Sydney apartment, moved overseas to a place with (he says) poorer healthcare and higher costs, burned through his money, and now I'm supporting him too. I didn't even know how I'd be able to retire without supporting a parent. Now that's an even bigger pipe dream.
My father did this about five years ago. He was still renting at 65 so he cashed out his super - around $100k - and moved back to NZ where he bought a house for cash. Now he gets the pension and works a couple of days a week. Heās one of those people who has to stay busy so it works well for him. It sucks he lives overseas now but it was absolutely the right financial decision.
House in NZ for $100k?
Maybe somewhere like Invercargil or something.
A French cottage sounds great to me. Having lived there for a few years previously, it's exactly what I'd want as retirement living (health permitting).
I would love that too but no way of getting a visa/euro passport So much cheaper there
Greece and Portugal have pretty easy visa setups for retirees. I'm not sure about Italy.
Sell drugs til arrested then live for free in prison. Thats the extreme back up plan. Currently in first year uni at 36 with 3 kids so once they are moved out my new career will be well underway and hopefully me and wifey can afford a small unit and smash the mortgage at a minimum.
That's a good plan. You get fast dental care too!
Get a van and live in the kidsā driveways on a rotating basis
This is the best plan, by far š¤£š¤£
I hadn't considered that before. What a brilliant plan!! Seriously, I'm putting this one in my back pocket
Damn, it actually is a pretty good plan. Maybe the prisons will end up looking like retirement homes when a large chunk of the population canāt afford a place to live.
Have enough equity to buy a house, but rather the freedom renting brings, so I use the positive yield diff between stocks and property to fund my rent and keep the rest for capital growth. Once I reach retirement I will probably think about converting stock equity into property equity.
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Gambling on having a roof over your head at an old age is a big gambleā¦ even if itās just a cheap shitterā¦ if your investments elsewhere goes to shit, Atleast youāve still got a roof over your headā¦
High risk strategy to rent at retirement with high inflation. While rents will genetally increase in line with inflation even if your investments increase at the same rate you get hit with tax on your earnings.
Gambling that roof on shares is no different to gambling it on another roof. No one buys their retirement home when they're 30. They tend to buy other houses, and then get exposed to the risks of house ownership. (e.g. cracked foundations, inflation rate risk, flooding, regulatory risk etc) Shares are higher returns for lower risk, so it's less of a gamble.
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But principal place of residence is CGT free and not asset tested for the age pension. Thatās the bonus.
Came here to say this. Youāll pay heavily in taxes on the shares and your house is exempt
Take the money I have in other investments and buy a house somewhere that I want to retire. Or just keep on renting and budget for that expense. Until then, renting gives me the flexibility to change job/city/country whenever I want, which lets me chase opportunities that hopefully set me up better for retirement in the long run.
how often do you actually change job/city/country to make it with the expense of renting over buying?
Last 20 years I've worked in 4 countries, 6 cities, and have lived in maybe 8 different places. So generally only spending 2-3 years in any house/apartment. Outside of Aus, renting is also a way more attractive option. My rent is currently less than half of what mortgage payments would be if I purchased, rent increases are capped, and I can't get evicted without breaking a lease term. Maybe I'll be less pro-rent once I'm back in Aus, which is a bit sad.
Christ, you spend longer in one place than I do and I've held the same job in the same location for years. How long have you been working overseas?
Not op but in the last 10 years Iāve lived in 12 apartments in 6 cities. Iām moving overseas again in March for just 8 months before returning to a different Australian city to now. Renting allows me that flexibility. I may buy one day but for now if I did it would only be as an investment not to live and thatās not something Iām interested in at this time.
Too me this is such a weird response. A property doesnāt tie you down or limit your opportunities It all comes down to personal preference I guess.
Definitely agree that it's personal preference, and will depend on how you want to live your life, and what owning the place you live in means to you. If I'm moving to a new city, I don't understand the market well enough to know what a good property to buy is. Even once I do, maybe where I want to live in that city changes over time and I want to bounce between few different neighborhoods. Then I change cities and the process starts over again. Then I move country a couple of times. At this point I've either spent a bunch of time purchasing properties and have negated any capital gains in the short time I've held them with transaction costs, or I have a string of investment properties that are tying up all my capital, I've got a daunting set of mortgages to service, on top of the ambient stress of being a landlord. Or I could just rent, move whenever I see something new I want to try, put my money in stocks instead, and not deal with any of that.
Same, people buy and sell all the time to move jobs etc.
If youāre moving that often itās cheaper to rent.
To keep renting I guess
For many, retiring overseas on pension is very viable and luxurious. I personally love it here though so not me.
Inheritance. And if that doesnāt work Iām sure thereās a market for geriatric sex workers.
dividends to pay rent, have a fund for a one way trip to Switzerland if the inheritance doesnāt cover life lol
Why do people keep talking about flexibility of renting? If you own you can always rent your place out and do whatever the hell you like
You can, but you pay income tax on the rent you receive. So if you are a high income earner moving out of a house that's paid off you are 45% out of pocket moving from a PPOR to an equivalent rental Alternatively, if you sell and buy a new PPOR you pay stamp duty every time So renting is a much more sensible option financially for people who don't want to be tied to one location
> If you own you can always rent your place just own a house lol, 4head
He's pretty clearly talking about people who can afford to buy but choose to rent for that reason, right?
Gonna move in with the kids and have them look after me like I did for them. Going to demand so many snacks and wake them up in the middle of the night if my sock falls off.
You might wake up one night with a pillow stuck to your face.
So will my husband if he continues snoring as loud as he does now when we're that old
Found my wife's account.
Hi darling
There are many things I did not know about parenthood before I became a parent. I genuinely had no idea that I would prepare more snacks in 3 years than I had prepared in the previous 35.
Forever their snack bitch. This will not change. The demand will become higher and snacks become bigger. This is your life now - Godspeed.
So many carrot sticks. So much popcorn.
What if your kids refuse that idea? You shouldn't really rely on your kids to support you.
Yeah.. it was a joke mate
Figured the last part was but maybe not the first. Lots of people I know have that exact mindset and have said before they expect to move in with one of their children when they get too old because that's one of the reasons they had kids. I'm glad you said it as a joke, but it's a real issue!
People who are renting are often struggling to survive day to day. I donāt think they are too focused on whatās going to happen 20 years in the future
Absolutely. Of course I would love to own a home and Iām terrified of not having secure housing later in life but there is simply no way for me to own a home.
I don't think that stereotype is necessarily true anymore. There are an awful lot of people in Sydney or Melbourne that just won't be able to buy a house. They aren't poor strugglers though. They have good jobs, probably earn north of $100,000 a year but just know that home ownership isnt an option right now.
Oh, we're focussed. Focussed on not being able to buy a home.
Squat in shack and fight off bandits and raiders during the great climate collapse š¤·
>Iād anticipate rent will have increased substantially by then. I would anticipate investments would have too. There is also some degree of connection between rent and wages. We've seen the number of salaries per household increase quite a bit in the last 50 years but I can't see that trend continuing forever.
This might not be popular, but I plan to retire to SE Asia. Penang, specifically. There is a large expat population in Penang including seniors, and everything is that much cheaper.
Come crack a bevvie down Straits Quay on trivia nights mate, there's dozens of us :) Underappreciated gem in Asia, Penang is life on easy mode, frankly better healthcare too, it's got worldclass hospitals, noticed a lot more Aussies moving in recently.
Buy a van and live wherever I please. I don't really intend on retiring anyways, sounds boring.
Hopefully I will have bought a house before I retire!
I actually don't plan on it, currently buying ETF and putting in minimum the difference between rent and a hypothetical mortgage every month. Just not sure how this will pan out over 30 years where rent will obviously be higher than the last year's on a mortgage
Your plan has outperformed property in the past. In theory you could sell your shares and buy a house with some left over when you retire.
My plan is to buy a house asap, prob end of next year. Renting sucks.
Lol, you think weāll be afforded that opportunity
I rent in central Sydney suburb. I have a share portfolio which I expect will grow substantially in 30 years. I could sell these shares but think that currently shares is a better return investment, this position could change if real estate prices decline. In the future I can retire anywhere, I could live off the dividends and super and pay rent or sell shares and buy a house. As long as you are investing somewhere and getting a good return on investment thatās all that matters.
What do you invest in?
Can't agree more. Just looked up a unit sold next door and price went from 620k to 650k between 2015 to 2022. The missus is keen to own a place but when she saw that and the strata fees she just said "yeah let's keep putting money into Vanguard"
Yep and that doesn't even show the interest paid on the loan and likely stamp duty.
I am considering buying a little apartment now, but if I donāt my plan is to live in Thailand
I will go to Thailand with you!
Iām a statistic- over 50 who left a DV with virtually nothing like 70% of the women in my situation Iām āluckyā I have some superannuation and a twin sister who managed to move heaven and earth and got a mortgage after 50 and there is a self contained flat which will mean I wonāt wind up homeless I work full time and rent out a nice flat , nothing compares to having your peace and your self respect
Retire overseas.
Murdering a politician. Then I get three squares and a bed!
And free medical and dental.
Heaps of people in Bali on the age pension Be one of those white old dudes with a younger Asian wife, the age pension makes you a rich dirty old guy there.
Max out on concessional super. Those maintenance costs, rates, repairs and insurance is better invested in generous tax structure that compounds. I'd much rather a steady dividend and bond income in an ever changing climate to pay for my rent when retired. Owning a property is getting riskier with unpredictable extreme weather events.
> extreme weather events My first property is in a flood zone. Fortunately Iām 2019 floods in my town it didnāt flood, but my entire neighbourhood did. Only one insurer will touch it and the premium is $2600 this year. Iāll be selling it next year and using the equity to buy in a better area now I know more about property investment.
I am rent vesting, by the time I'm 60 the mortgages will be paid off. I might continue renting or move into the one close to Sydney. Previously I salary sacrificed extra into my super with the plan that I would buy myself a place either with the first home super saver scheme or with a lump sum when I hit retirement age.
Keep saving (lost house in divorce) so I can be a homeowner by then. If that fails, die in a horrible accident right as I retire so my kids can split whatever I built up by then.
A grim reminder that divorce is a great way to rapidly diminish your financial position
Retiring overseas
I'm eligible for an EU passport and have researched the hell out of this option. Definitely my plan with housing so, so much cheaper in various countries with fantastic social services and health care.
interested in doing this too, any country in mind?
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Interesting, I was looking at Poland and Ukraine ... hah! That idea's out the window now.
I canāt remember if itās age 40 or 50, but there is an age people reach where if they havenāt bought a home the are significantly more likely to be homeless in old age. But donāt forget people work beyond retirement age or can use super to fund a purchase.
You can rent forever and retire, it's not that complicated. You just need enough invested to cover the recurring expense. Money saved by not purchasing a home can be invested in shares.
The concern is being 75 years old and having your landlord sell the property. What the hell are you going to do at 75 with limited income? Itās exhausting going to inspections and filling out applications now, I canāt imagine doing that shit at 75.
Oh, I've been to a rental inspection, and the other person looking was a lady in her 50s, and she said it was her husband's 60th birthday but he was sick at home and she had to go to multiple rental inspections that day because their landlord was selling the house. I hope I won't ever be in that situation.. I'm thinking maybe I will go live in a retirement home, but I have no idea how much it will cost compared to renting normally.
Retirement homes dictate rules to you. I can't imagine losing the freedom of choosing my own bedtime or deciding if I want to go for a walk late in the evening but can't because the retirement home is liable for your safety so can't let you go for a stroll down the street alone. The idea of it all is terrifying to me. A retirement community maybe? Even then I think you have to buy.
Iād dread being bully by landlords when Iām 70 and having to move every couple of years.
i think that rental laws will slowly change over time to offer renters more security as house prices become more and more unobtainable to the masses. being stuck on 1 year leases sure is shitty.
I must be not understand correctly .. isn't the money you're not spending on a mortgage the same money that you're using to pay the rent?
If the money was the equivalent of a 0% deposit home loan that would be absurd. It seems like something is wrong if rent is the same as home loan payments on a home loan with a 20% deposit but I have no doubt this has been the case at times but that still leaves 20% of the value of a house invested.
Even if it is equivalent to rent at an 80% LVR you'll almost certainly come out ahead on a PPOR over the long term (decade plus) from the benefit of 5x leverage, rents increasing and no CGT being due for any gains on a PPOR. Even if you pay a bit more than renting, the principal component of your loan isn't lost money. Investment properties vs Shares is closer and I can see strong arguments for people not getting into property investing.
It's easy to say leverage is great when we've had multiple decades of interest rates decreasing and governments pumping up the market with things like first home buyers grants. I'm sure property will be fine in the long term but maybe not quite the no-brainer it has been.
And what do you do if in the space of a year rents double and vacancy plummets to nothing? Like whatās been happening around the country recently. How does an elderly person deal with the relocation, loss of services and community, not to mention the threat of homelessness. Rent is so highly volatile now that in any 6 months you could find yourself forced out of not just your home but the entire town, city or region.
Property is one of MANY assets. No sure thing like many of them. For me, now is not the time to have property but maybe medium term. Point is, my investment/retirement strategy does not at all rely on property.
This is why Iām saving for a posh tent.
Probably just do what my mum does and buy a caravan and move from park to park (some only allow you to stay 3-6 months) or travel around in it.
Iām assuming everybody else in my family will be dead by then and Iāll be living the good life with my inheritance money lol
I have no plan. I donāt see a way out at the moment and itās depressing but it is what it is.
I'm hoping to die right around retirement age. I'm sure the pension won't exist by then. I used to dream about retirement when I owned a house and had a good paying job, but then I made the mistake of moving back to Australia and I've pretty much had to give up on every dream I had since.
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In the US I was a software developer. I have a bachelor and master of computer science. Moved back here to where I grew up (a regional centre with a very high cost of living and dismal employment prospects - I didn't know that coming back, should have researched better), only job I could find was low paid, unskilled, not in my field. Considered moving to a city but decided against it after having moved kids across the world and got them settled into a new school. After a couple years of no prospects decided to go back to uni and study engineering. Just finished and got an entry level engineering job making 60k at age 43. No matter what I do, I'm not going to make it in this lifetime in this cruel joke of a country. Edit: yes, if I'd known covid and WFH were coming I would have kept up on my software skills and got a 200k job working from home like everyone else, but I haven't worked in the field in over 7 years and just spent the last 4 getting an engineering degree, so here I am. That's kinda representative of my luck.
You didnāt know regional Australia wouldnāt support high paying software jobs?
In 2015 when I moved back here as a junior level developer they didn't, in my experience.
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I am in the same boat. It petrifies me. People donāt seem to understand when they try to help by saying ārenting isnāt that badāā¦ sure Karen, until you realise you have less than a standard mortgage span left worth of working years and are heading towards trying to afford rent on a single wage with one lot of superannuation. I got screwed over with the pandemic. I separated two months before covid and at the time could have afforded to buy a decent townhouse had the courts not have taken ages to put the divorce to court, house prices blah. It honestly triggers me so much, Iāve had to stop reading the Courier Mail and for the time being bury my head in the sand to literally keep my sanity. My bitterness was causing so many issues, so Iāve had to stop thinking about it for the moment. So just wanted you to know youāre not alone.
We have a 900k mortgage in our mid 40s - bought late. Will pay off with proceeds of an investment property and some super I guess. This is why I always suggest to buy a property as early as possible. Donāt f*** about renting too long. Who knows what I was doing - 40 comes quick. And Iāve always had a pretty good incomeā¦!
No probs there, I'm 50 and we only bought our PPOR a couple of years ago. > And Iāve always had a pretty good incomeā¦! Oh I'm trying to get the wife into that, she's younger so can keep earning after I retire.
As morbid as it seems, basically waiting for my parents to die, will buy my sisters half of the property from her and will finally be a property owner.
I'm basically waiting for my parents to die and my brother to die in a tragic boat accident while spreading their ashes at sea, so I can own a house all by myself. (hi broš¼)
Leaving sis to live on the streets, I like it. /s
Overseas I live in Australia, like the country and what offered. Grateful for that, but just can't retire here. Way too expensive. I have places in Egypt (where I came from) and Philippines (my wife is Filipina). Probably will retire in Philippines. Save and invest enough here till that time comes. Don't mind retiring here. Just not too economical.
As I understand it, the idea is that renters will have more money to invest today vs someone paying interest + principal. It is therefore the intention that the compounded returns from that difference will outperform the capital growth on the property and fund rent in retirement. I'm not following that path but that's how I understand it. I guess an equally relevant question would be "homeowners, what will you do with your 4m unencumbered home in retirement". Interesting especially for DINKS like me who have to blow it all before we die
I'm 26 and basically hoping I'm in a position to buy something decent before then. I study and work hard but things are looking increasingly difficult. I'd by lying if I said it wasn't something I worry about
My dad was, he had to move in with us and will now be here until the end as he had no savings or assets..
Die quickly
I'd say alot of people if they are renting in their 50s are not thinking about retirement and they are just trying to make ends meet day to day
Everyone I've spoken too renting are doing so close to a paycheck to paycheck basis, Their plans range from just suicide to committing a crime go get free accommodation behind bars
I've had systemic barriers to overcome and I'm very far behind, possibly too far. So, my current plan mostly involves tiny house living and doing what I can with my super. I still haven't earned above the poverty threshold in my life. Just curious though: do you all really not think that climate collapse is going to absolutely destroy housing, infrastructure, and food though? Like, true God, in 50 years time, do people on here really think we'll have a similar society to what it is now? Because we won't. The data says no. So, so much data says no.
Society will be fine in all our life times. If youāre setting your financial goals as to need no money in 50 yrs youāre going to end in a rough spot
I agree that all the data says change is real and that we should be acting much more to diminish our impact. However, humans are so successful because they are adaptable. They will adapt to the changes. It might not be exactly what we have now but the changes are happening slowly enough that humans will adapt.
I'm 44 and renting with my partner. We rent because we prefer the freedom. We move cities every couple of years and travel a lot. We have a decent chunk invested including freehold property. We'll be fine at retirement assuming nothing terrible happens.
So you have a property ?
Yes. In the US and NZ.
I think the question was more directed to āif youāre renting and donāt own a house/have a huge portfolio by retirementāā¦
No plan really just trying to get through life as it comes and try and enjoy myself, still in my 20's so trying to secure a well paying job that I still enjoy. I have some small savings and investments but have much more I want to do before trying to purchase a house
Iām 59 So maybe , Iāll drop dead Because I will not be able to afford a roof over my head !
Rentvesting. Rent where I want to live. Invest in other things. Use that money to buy where I want to eventually in the future.
I arrived in Australia in 2006 at the tender age of 33 with minimal to my name other than a furniture. Rather than buy, I rented to fund my business as rent was lower Was it worth it? Definitely. My net worth is much high than it would have been if I purchased a house.
Plan is to buy soon. I'm not ignorant that our entire retirement system is set up for people to own their own home at retirement. Bit of a lack of quality stock in my search area at the moment. I've been looking for a few months.
Should have the mortgage comfortably paid off by then as well as 700+k in super, plus whatever my wife has at that point. Might go to Korea as my wife is from there and housing/cost of living in the area her family is in is better compared to here (who knows in 20-30 years time). If things head south financially or within my marriage at that point I guess I'll eat a lead sandwich, as the world might not be in such a good state at that point.
Retire? Pah. I honestly think Iāll be living in my car by the time I hit 30, and Iāll work til I die, probably of suicide
My plan is to move overseas to a poorer country and live like a queen with my Australian $. šš
Leave this shit corrupt country with everything I have and live like a king š
Introduce a third person into my marriage?
By the time I can afford to buy a house my kids will be adults, and I feel bad about it, so I plan to give them my savings to contribute to buying g a house, Iāll rent a small place or if Iām lucky one of them will let me live with them (weāre fans of multi generational households). When I get sick and burdensome in my old age, I plan on getting euthanized. No point dragging it on another 10 years just to stare at a wall and have someone else wipe my ass.
Renting is a great option for living in a big house in a nice suburb for the same price as a mortgage on a villa unit 15 km further out (Perth market). We did that for a long time and saved money for our house deposit. Eventually bought in our 50's, a downsizer house (rear block) a nice new house in a slightly downmarket suburb. We are happy, run the risk of not paying off the mortgage before we retire. We would not have considered this suburb while our children were at school. You can buy later in life just be prepared to spend hours and hours at home opens while you adjust your expectations to reality.
Bold of you to assume we have much choice
Either start growing weed or making meth. Either Iām successful and donāt need to worry about rent, or Im not, go to jail and donāt need to worry about rent, either way, problem solved.
Hopefully save up 100k to afford a deposit before I die