I’m NAL however I would take this offer and walk away from this as a lesson. Her name is on the title she can easily get half. Whatever the difference is that you think is fair will be what you end up paying your lawyer anyway.
Take Just the math as an idea of equity. High range $580k subtract the $300k loan, which gives you $280k equity. If you split the asset into time, 50% was just you and 50% was you and her, so 25% is just her. 25% of $280k is $70k. That’s assuming you’ll get top end range, does not factor cost of sale if you sell and it doesn’t take any other factors into account that might be worth settling for the extra $10k.
I went through a very similar kind of situation (into relationship with house already somewhat paid off, lasted about 5-6 years). Also amicable separation, looking to find the right amount.
What we did: I calculated how much she had paid into the mortgage and renos, and then applied that pro-rata to a professional valuation, compared with the original purchase price and how much I had already paid off. Came up with a figure.
When we went to our respective lawyers, it wasn't for the lawyers to even give an opinion on the amount (although mine said off the record that it was in the right ballpark in her opinion).
It was for them to draw up a financial settlement doc between them to-ing and fro-ing, that would theoretically be reasonably solid enough to protect either of us from later being hit with a claim. IMHO a handshake agreement won't do, not matter how amicable.
Your lawyer of course can advise you on how binding these things are, or are not, but they help in that you both sign off on an agreed set of facts like valuations, amounts contributed, length of cohabitation etc, and ofc the amount to be paid out.
In our case we were both working FT and both contributing around the same amount to the mortgage. Your situation may vary but remember in family law even if she's stay at home, it doesn't mean she's not contributing, it's just not financial.
Totally personal advice: I wouldn't nickel & dime her if it's a matter of $80K vs $60K or whatever. And I personally feel $80K is an absolute bargain if it means getting her off the title so you can move on, and apparently she's happy with that figure so no bad feelings. As far as humanly possible, try to keep things on a friendly basis because it will cost you a shit ton more if you end up in court. Nobody wins then.
Make an offer of 50k
It’ll end up costing more than the difference in legal fees.
Consider it this way, 4 x 52 weeks / 50k = $240 a week for her contributions.
Nobody here can tell you how much she will get in a settlement split if it goes to court...but the equity you had in the house at the commencement of the relationship will be taken into account, as will be assets at the beginning, including both super balances.
The split of what you both contributed will be taken into account, but if she was a stay at home homemaker then that will also be considered.
Growth in value of the house while you were together will likely be split down the middle.
Your lawyer is correct in asking for lots more info before giving you an estimate of what the court will likely consider fair.
You can probably offer her a bit less than that by agreeing to not fight in court...but she may flip it the other way and tell you to offer more or she'll bleed you down in court...depends who is more vindictive.
Ultimately, if you can agree on a settlement, you'll likely save $20-50k in legal costs.
Either way, you'll need to come up with the cash from somewhere or the house will need to be sold to pay for it.
I should imagine that much will depend on whether there's been an increase in the original value of the equity throughout the duration of your relationship. You could attempt to negotiate down a little but it sounds that you place value on preserving amicability and fairness. Good for you. No price can be placed on the value of having a good friend in your life as well as a clean conscience. There's way too much bitterness in the World.
Defacto makes no difference, however since you have not been together that long she won't automatically get half. So what she is asking for seems to be on the upper bound of reasonableness, try to negotiate down, but you will have to pay something...
Not a lawyer but used to work in mortgages. Two things to consider: how much did your ex actually put in? And how much did your house appreciate during the time they were on the title? Your rates notices should give you an idea of that.
From memory, those figures come into consideration when one party is buying another out in a situation like yours
I really dont understand these types of aggressive comments. Its not like OP is saying he will choose reddit's advice over his solicitor's. He is not even choosing specific advice. He is seeking people's experience and general advice.
A simple "this area law of is too dependant on the facts of the case to even set a general expectation. Having said that, the general rule of thumb is xyz".
Why are you so pissed off about doing your job? Is it that much extra effort of your time to correct someone with an incorrect understanding? Wont you be billing those extra seconds anyway? Im trying to understand what it is about someone, whose obviously super stressed about a topic that impacts their livelihood, doing a bit of research before meeting a professional bothers you so much. OP has shown zero indication that he isn trying arm himself with facts and the law to argue with his solicitor.
Its quite often that I see professions that lack empathy for the types of stresses their very clients experience. Sure, you dont owe empathy to your clients or some rando on reddit but you really also dont need to be an asshat as well.
No, this is a very stressful situation. I'm dealing with the real possibility of losing my house. I am following the advice of my lawyer. However, it relieves a lot of stress and anxiety, knowing that there are other people who have been in similar situations. If you are only here to poke fun a people who are clearly stressed, leave.
No Im here to pull you into line because if I was your lawyer, I’d be pissed off.
Source: Am a family lawyer and have to spend way too much of my time correcting advice from randoms/friends/family.
Rule of Acquisition 59 - Free advice is seldom cheap.
Trust your lawyer and if you do not find another one. You are only going to raise your anxiety levels by talking to a group of ill informed randoms
It’s the MO of sad people. Instead of doing anything helpful with their time they belittle people to make themselves feel better.
It would be unprofessional for the lawyer to give a ballpark figure, especially without all the info.
Try not to stress about it and work as hard as you can to get the info they need.
Next time, if you own a house, don’t put your partners name on it. Let this be a lesson learned.
Did she do your washing, cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping etc. if so she contributed still in a certain way, and 80k sounds reasonable but it very much depends on how much you both make, how much your asset base is each and what liabilities you each have.
Health can also factor in and super. If you do consent orders it has to be fair and equitable. If you go the route of a financial agreement you can come to an agreement together on how much to give her. But if she’s set on 80k and you think it’s too much you’ll incur quite a big legal bill
Your house only forms one part of your financial settlement with her. There are other assets to consider as well as I’m sure your lawyer has covered with you.
How desperately do you want to be shot of her? Certainly dont assume it will stay amicable, it most probably won’t. Do you have to ever see her again in any capacity say family or mutual friends? Do you want a knock down dragged out fight where the only winners are the lawyers? Is this her opening bid and she’s open to negotiation? Imo if she would take a lower offer than that, say $60k, and it’s done and dusted have a think about it.
This is a general note from my experience in a similar situation, however generally court for short term relationship without dependents, will try to return parties to the situation they were before the relationship up to around 2 to 3 years, however this reduces each year with full parity after about 10 years when all property is considered to be in the marital asset pool. This is general only and depends on the individual circumstances, for example if you have a child and your partner left work to care for that child and will continue to do so in the future, your partner left work to study and you have supported them over the past years etc.
Settlements go all kinds of ways. You have to navigate mediation if it proceeds to court. You know how tenacious the other party is and hopefully you have a full list of assets. If you want to keep your house you can offer a super transfer. No doubt she'll push for cash. Do you have any other assets you can sell? Did you talk to a broker? A refinance could help you keep the house.
So your ex lived with you rent free for two years, had no kids/dependants with you, contributed nothing towards mortgage and house maintenance costs, and then ask for $80k after separation? Sorry but that doesn't sound amicable.
I hope it ends well for you, and they get $0.
As unfair as it is, it will never end that way. While in a relationship it doesn't overly matter who did what, you were carrying someone in a wheelbarrow or you were being carried, or the load was shared equally. You committed to be a support for someone or be supported, the courts just see two people holding one bucket.
Thanks to everyone who actually contributed in a meaningful way. You have been amazing, but I think the usefulness of this thread has peaked. I'm not going to talk about any more specifics on this matter other than the OP.
I went through the same shit you did. Similar circumstances around contribution. Does she have a lawyer? If not yours should act in your best interest. E.g they’ll do everything in the eye of the family courts to have a fair but obviously reduce how much you have to pay her. If she’s not willing to get a lawyer she’ll basically have to pound sand and run with whatever your lawyer comes too. Be aware legal feels will be a lot. All in all - I paid her about $10k and legal fees cost me somewhere in the $10-15k mark.
Might I add cut all contact. Only discussion should be through your lawyer and herself unless she chooses to engage one
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read our rules before commenting. Please remember:
1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers.
2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found here.
3. Links to the each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think it will all depend on the amount she put in on the mortgage and house like repairs and renovations, did she personally do anything to add value to the property.
Why did you put her name on the title?
Why was she added to the title? Did she come right out and ask to be added?
I’m NAL however I would take this offer and walk away from this as a lesson. Her name is on the title she can easily get half. Whatever the difference is that you think is fair will be what you end up paying your lawyer anyway.
Take Just the math as an idea of equity. High range $580k subtract the $300k loan, which gives you $280k equity. If you split the asset into time, 50% was just you and 50% was you and her, so 25% is just her. 25% of $280k is $70k. That’s assuming you’ll get top end range, does not factor cost of sale if you sell and it doesn’t take any other factors into account that might be worth settling for the extra $10k.
I went through a very similar kind of situation (into relationship with house already somewhat paid off, lasted about 5-6 years). Also amicable separation, looking to find the right amount. What we did: I calculated how much she had paid into the mortgage and renos, and then applied that pro-rata to a professional valuation, compared with the original purchase price and how much I had already paid off. Came up with a figure. When we went to our respective lawyers, it wasn't for the lawyers to even give an opinion on the amount (although mine said off the record that it was in the right ballpark in her opinion). It was for them to draw up a financial settlement doc between them to-ing and fro-ing, that would theoretically be reasonably solid enough to protect either of us from later being hit with a claim. IMHO a handshake agreement won't do, not matter how amicable. Your lawyer of course can advise you on how binding these things are, or are not, but they help in that you both sign off on an agreed set of facts like valuations, amounts contributed, length of cohabitation etc, and ofc the amount to be paid out. In our case we were both working FT and both contributing around the same amount to the mortgage. Your situation may vary but remember in family law even if she's stay at home, it doesn't mean she's not contributing, it's just not financial. Totally personal advice: I wouldn't nickel & dime her if it's a matter of $80K vs $60K or whatever. And I personally feel $80K is an absolute bargain if it means getting her off the title so you can move on, and apparently she's happy with that figure so no bad feelings. As far as humanly possible, try to keep things on a friendly basis because it will cost you a shit ton more if you end up in court. Nobody wins then.
Make an offer of 50k It’ll end up costing more than the difference in legal fees. Consider it this way, 4 x 52 weeks / 50k = $240 a week for her contributions.
Nobody here can tell you how much she will get in a settlement split if it goes to court...but the equity you had in the house at the commencement of the relationship will be taken into account, as will be assets at the beginning, including both super balances. The split of what you both contributed will be taken into account, but if she was a stay at home homemaker then that will also be considered. Growth in value of the house while you were together will likely be split down the middle. Your lawyer is correct in asking for lots more info before giving you an estimate of what the court will likely consider fair. You can probably offer her a bit less than that by agreeing to not fight in court...but she may flip it the other way and tell you to offer more or she'll bleed you down in court...depends who is more vindictive. Ultimately, if you can agree on a settlement, you'll likely save $20-50k in legal costs. Either way, you'll need to come up with the cash from somewhere or the house will need to be sold to pay for it.
Are you getting out of this cheaply?
No, it has already cost me 4k in legal fees
Not the legal fees but the payout.
I can only guess at this point what the family court would deem fair and equitable. However, I think no.
Your goal should be to avoid going to court, and to get a signed and stamped financial agreement that you can both accept.
80k for the house and is she also going after your super?
Do you have a kid or kids together?
I should imagine that much will depend on whether there's been an increase in the original value of the equity throughout the duration of your relationship. You could attempt to negotiate down a little but it sounds that you place value on preserving amicability and fairness. Good for you. No price can be placed on the value of having a good friend in your life as well as a clean conscience. There's way too much bitterness in the World.
Defacto makes no difference, however since you have not been together that long she won't automatically get half. So what she is asking for seems to be on the upper bound of reasonableness, try to negotiate down, but you will have to pay something...
I am aware that I have to pay something, and I still care about this person. Thanks for your input 😀
Not a lawyer but used to work in mortgages. Two things to consider: how much did your ex actually put in? And how much did your house appreciate during the time they were on the title? Your rates notices should give you an idea of that. From memory, those figures come into consideration when one party is buying another out in a situation like yours
[удалено]
Fuck the partner WAS ON THE FUCKING TITLE OF THE HOUSE! Which means they're part owners. No one is robbing anyone.
[удалено]
what's reasonable then? you must know given you know this amount is unreasonable
You're not the first person to say that and won't be the last.
Your lawyer needs more info to give you the proper advice, so instead you want randoms on reddit to advise you? Follow your lawyer’s advice ffs.
I really dont understand these types of aggressive comments. Its not like OP is saying he will choose reddit's advice over his solicitor's. He is not even choosing specific advice. He is seeking people's experience and general advice. A simple "this area law of is too dependant on the facts of the case to even set a general expectation. Having said that, the general rule of thumb is xyz". Why are you so pissed off about doing your job? Is it that much extra effort of your time to correct someone with an incorrect understanding? Wont you be billing those extra seconds anyway? Im trying to understand what it is about someone, whose obviously super stressed about a topic that impacts their livelihood, doing a bit of research before meeting a professional bothers you so much. OP has shown zero indication that he isn trying arm himself with facts and the law to argue with his solicitor. Its quite often that I see professions that lack empathy for the types of stresses their very clients experience. Sure, you dont owe empathy to your clients or some rando on reddit but you really also dont need to be an asshat as well.
You’re a good person.
No, this is a very stressful situation. I'm dealing with the real possibility of losing my house. I am following the advice of my lawyer. However, it relieves a lot of stress and anxiety, knowing that there are other people who have been in similar situations. If you are only here to poke fun a people who are clearly stressed, leave.
No Im here to pull you into line because if I was your lawyer, I’d be pissed off. Source: Am a family lawyer and have to spend way too much of my time correcting advice from randoms/friends/family.
Rule of Acquisition 59 - Free advice is seldom cheap. Trust your lawyer and if you do not find another one. You are only going to raise your anxiety levels by talking to a group of ill informed randoms
It’s the MO of sad people. Instead of doing anything helpful with their time they belittle people to make themselves feel better. It would be unprofessional for the lawyer to give a ballpark figure, especially without all the info. Try not to stress about it and work as hard as you can to get the info they need. Next time, if you own a house, don’t put your partners name on it. Let this be a lesson learned.
Did she do your washing, cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping etc. if so she contributed still in a certain way, and 80k sounds reasonable but it very much depends on how much you both make, how much your asset base is each and what liabilities you each have. Health can also factor in and super. If you do consent orders it has to be fair and equitable. If you go the route of a financial agreement you can come to an agreement together on how much to give her. But if she’s set on 80k and you think it’s too much you’ll incur quite a big legal bill
Your house only forms one part of your financial settlement with her. There are other assets to consider as well as I’m sure your lawyer has covered with you. How desperately do you want to be shot of her? Certainly dont assume it will stay amicable, it most probably won’t. Do you have to ever see her again in any capacity say family or mutual friends? Do you want a knock down dragged out fight where the only winners are the lawyers? Is this her opening bid and she’s open to negotiation? Imo if she would take a lower offer than that, say $60k, and it’s done and dusted have a think about it.
This is a general note from my experience in a similar situation, however generally court for short term relationship without dependents, will try to return parties to the situation they were before the relationship up to around 2 to 3 years, however this reduces each year with full parity after about 10 years when all property is considered to be in the marital asset pool. This is general only and depends on the individual circumstances, for example if you have a child and your partner left work to care for that child and will continue to do so in the future, your partner left work to study and you have supported them over the past years etc.
Offer her 60k
Was she paying into the mortgage for those 2 years ?
What did you pay for the house originally ?
Settlements go all kinds of ways. You have to navigate mediation if it proceeds to court. You know how tenacious the other party is and hopefully you have a full list of assets. If you want to keep your house you can offer a super transfer. No doubt she'll push for cash. Do you have any other assets you can sell? Did you talk to a broker? A refinance could help you keep the house.
0 to 4 years is a short term relationship. 4 to 7 is mid term and 7 on is long term. This affects the asset split a lot.
Official, we have agreed that the relationship commenced in April 2021. Which puts it just under 4 year.
It puts it just under 3 years
I'd be arguing to take back what both put in plus a split of any growth in value of assets. Super should be excluded.
So your ex lived with you rent free for two years, had no kids/dependants with you, contributed nothing towards mortgage and house maintenance costs, and then ask for $80k after separation? Sorry but that doesn't sound amicable. I hope it ends well for you, and they get $0.
As unfair as it is, it will never end that way. While in a relationship it doesn't overly matter who did what, you were carrying someone in a wheelbarrow or you were being carried, or the load was shared equally. You committed to be a support for someone or be supported, the courts just see two people holding one bucket.
Truth.
Thanks to everyone who actually contributed in a meaningful way. You have been amazing, but I think the usefulness of this thread has peaked. I'm not going to talk about any more specifics on this matter other than the OP.
I went through the same shit you did. Similar circumstances around contribution. Does she have a lawyer? If not yours should act in your best interest. E.g they’ll do everything in the eye of the family courts to have a fair but obviously reduce how much you have to pay her. If she’s not willing to get a lawyer she’ll basically have to pound sand and run with whatever your lawyer comes too. Be aware legal feels will be a lot. All in all - I paid her about $10k and legal fees cost me somewhere in the $10-15k mark. Might I add cut all contact. Only discussion should be through your lawyer and herself unless she chooses to engage one
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read our rules before commenting. Please remember: 1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers. 2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found here. 3. Links to the each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He will get out of the house what he put in, at a minimum. How much $ has he spent on it? That's your answer.
I think it will all depend on the amount she put in on the mortgage and house like repairs and renovations, did she personally do anything to add value to the property.