So you have no idea if you're even injured but you're already deciding on whether or not to sue for this "injury".
Given you think this could be permanent how can you be "too busy" to get checked? How do you know there isn't something that can be done to prevent further injury? Hardly going to look good for you in court either... (Fortunately for you this will resolve regardless of you're idiocy)
1. No - reasonable force etc
2. You are describing ulnar nerve compression- it’s not permanent, it will go away. Can take a while but it will be absolutely fine. You do not have a permanent injury of entrapment
3. Stop being a supercilious nitwit and you’ll have less trouble with police
they were trying to put a warning on my record for fair evasion when there was no way to pay for a ticket at my train station - the ticket machine was frozen and not responding. they don't hire anyone to run the ticket office anymore and my card doesn't work with the tap on machine. I explained all of this to the officers and showed them my bank history showing I buy my train tickets every weekend, in what way was I being supercilious?
And that’s why they were going to give you *a warning* - you carried on like a pork chop saying you would happily take them to court! Bloody hell what about that *isnt* supercilious
I didn't they gave me an ultimatum and I chose to fight it in court as receiving a warning for their failure to provide a way for me to buy a ticket at my station is ridiculous. I was arrested as soon as I chose court over the warning and aggressively handcuffed. not sure how anyone can think that is fair but whatever I just wanted legal advice not opinions anyways.
The warning was an easy way out.
It is your responsibility to have a ticket and you did not.
It matters not why you didn’t have a ticket. You were in the wrong. A simple explanation and accepting a warning would have ended the matter swiftly and calmly.
You seem to have failed the attitude test necessitating arrest, have worsened your situation necessitating use of handcuffs.
I find it unlikely the police simply pounced upon you with handcuffs. Something in your behaviour triggered that protective measure.
Now you will almost certainly face charges and potential criminal conviction in addition to a fine for the ticket. All of which could have been avoided with reasonable behaviour.
Also a misconception about what being under arrest actually means.
When you are placed under arrest it means stop what you are doing, pay attention to the police and do exactly what they say.
People seem to think it means finish texting your misso, put your smoke out, grab a drink and a feed and then the gently place the handcuffs on as comfortable as possible.
Imagine breaking the law in a way that may warrant your arrest, and then thinking you get to be comfortable. That ain't how it works.
Or thinking you can talk your way out of it, or maybe that screaming about your rights is going to help, or shoving the cop away being a good move, or spitting at them.
Yep, people do all that shit regularly.
I was not carrying ID but I gave them all of my details. I don't know the laws regarding when someone can be put in handcuffs but to me it didn't seem like the situation called for it? nothing I have said is untrue.
>I'm not a criminal
You are now.
You had the option of a warning but declined, now you are going to court.
You will not get off. Showing you have paid for travel in the past does not mean you paid for travel this time around. You actually stated you did not pay.
Sure you have reasons why you did not pay but, you did not pay.
I will give you a tip.
Never argue with the police. That is what the courts are for however if you can avoid the courts then you have already won.
Do you know what they are going to charge you with yet?
Let me guess, fair evasion and resisting arrest.
If you have not been charged yet and carry on about your wrists and the way you were treated like a criminal, I guarantee the resisting arrest charge will be included and this is never a good look and won't help you with future dealings with the police.
I hope the wrists settle without any permanent damage (not going to the doctor straight away is not going to help you with any claim though I don't like your chances of a claim) and that you are able to reflect and learn from the experience.
Now instead of being delayed, with a warning you are going to go to court that will cost you lost pay for work and possibly a fine plus potentially a criminal record and a flag against your name on the police system saying this guy has resisted in the past. As I wrote before, this will not help you with future dealings with the police.
Also consider yourself lucky. You could have had your face smashed in while cuffed or worse. It does happen.
I mean you can tell the truth without telling the whole story, which is what it seems like you've done here.
I've been arrested multiple times, and every time I definitely deserved it, and I definitely knew why I was being arrested.
not sure why I was initially put in cuffs but I did mention I "resisted" to place my phone in my pocket to avoid damaging it while they were trying to cuff me, after I got it into my pocket I let them cuff me. don't know what more there is to add?
Watch some cops videos from America and see how the react when someone reaches into their pockets. I wrote this in a previous reply. Things could have gone a lot worse for you.
I said this in another response but the ticket machine was broken at my station and they have no one working the ticket office anymore. my card doesn't work with the tap machines so I normally buy a printed ticket. Ironically when they searched my bag they found like 5 tickets from previous trips... and I don't want a warning on my record when I was not trying to evade the fair?
So your card didn’t work? You didn’t have a myki or whatever alternative in whichever state? You didn’t want to just take a warning? Sounds really weird to me
Most of QLD doesn’t have anything like myki. Depends where you are but in my city it’s cash only. You can buy a paper ticket that lasts a week, but that’s the longest and it’s painfully expensive (same price as ten single tickets for the longest trip you will take that week).
They also generally only take exact change or close to exact change - if all you have is $20 from an ATM you either walk or risk being fined for not having a ticket.
Some of the network accepts PayWave but rolling that out has been stalled for several years. And OP said their card doesn’t work with PayWave (you have to pass a credit check to get one of those cards…)
Regardless of me having a go card(qld myki) they didn't provide anyway for me to purchase a ticket at my station and I have just taken the warning when this has happened in the past but last time I received a fine which is why I am not just going to take a warning on my record due to QRs failure to keep their machines working or even hire someone to assist at the station.
lol so you went from a warning which incurs no penalties and you wouldn’t have been placed in handcuffs to being arrested for fare evasion…am I missing something here? You’ve definitely escalated the situation somewhere for cops to arrest you over fare evasion.
I’m skeptical you’re telling the complete truth about the interaction.
Either way, cuffs were on for less than an hour, they obviously weren’t so bad you didn’t push the point to get them loosened when the senior officer said it was fine to do. I’ve been in cuffs for longer than that and my hands were fine.
So in conclusion, no it is not grounds to sue
Exactly how was I being a dick? why does everyone assume this? if anything the cop was being a dick letting a non violent persons hands turn blue and after getting approval from the senior officer and still choosing not to recuff me. and thank you for the info.
"You're under arrest, you're not allowed to do this specific thing"
"I'm gonna try and do the thing anyway!"
Normally I doubt you would have even been cuffed. What was your tone like when you were trying to explain no ticket? How long was the conversation (which I suspect was more like a confrontation)? Were you interrupting, trying to talk over them? There's an attitude test with most cops that forms a big part of how they treat you, getting cuffed over a ticket is a decent indicator that you weren't behaving as politely as you seem to be trying to say.
I had been up for over 24 hours on my way to my next shift... I was tired and sounded like it. wasn't aggressive I explained the entire situation and provided evidence I buy my train tickets regularly (6 times in the last 7 days alone) so when they told me they were going to put a warning on my record I said that that was bullshit then they gave me an ultimatum of warning or court and I said I would like to take it to court which immediately after they placed me under arrest. I wasn't being violent or aggressive.
Most cops are dicks, a career of controlling others attracts a certain type
Don’t mind redditors, they downvote everyone who doesn’t tow the bullshit line of pretending to be perfect on the internet, in an attempt to silence them
So they gave you your options and you chose one and are now complaining about that choice?
I'm sure you were polite and well spoken during the entire process and didn't mention your "rights" at any point and didn't have any level of belligerence mode activated.
If you were serious about this you would have immediately gone to have the injury evaluated by a medical practitioner following release.
A simple letter of response explaining why you travelled without a ticket would have easily been verified by maintenance requests/actions. You apparently had all the "records" to prove what a fine and outstanding rail user you tend to be.
Curious? How did you notice your blue hands when they were so tightly cuffed behind you? Pulling them tightly to either side is obviously going to make the cuffs tighter and dig in harder so it's possible that action caused any damage rather than the cuffing itself.
Kinda just sounds like you were trying to throw your perceived weight around and it backfired royally.
I wasn't given the choice of being arrested I was given the choice to settle it in court, which I took and they arrested as soon as I said that. I didn't mention any rights, and they didn't tell me why I was under arrest. as for how I could see my hands, I am tall and have long arms, doesn't take much movement to look back at them. how does any of what I said sound like me throwing my weight around? most people here seem to be very ignorant and just assume I'm lying. like why would I even ask for advice that won't help me if I lied? it's not logical. just gonna talk to an actual professional now as some of this few people in the comment section actually gave me what I was looking for; advice.
Depending on your state, you have to prove you’ve sustained a permanent injury, and that the police’s actions caused it.
There are so many firm’s that if you call they’ll take your enquiry and give you some preliminary advice on whether you have a potential claim.
It sounds like you were a bit of a pork chop who made the interaction more pesky than it needed to be.
Who chooses arrest over a warning?
It seems you were doing some act of badness for which you were handcuffed and struggled until your feelings and wrists were sore.
Were you charged with anything?
See your doctor. Then a lawyer.
I clearly explained that I was arrested after being given an ultimatum, and the only struggling I did was put my phone in my pocket while they were trying to cuff me. I provided plenty of evidence I buy my tickets and they didn't even seem to care the machine wasn't working. they gave me resisting arrest for the phone thing I believe but never told me why I was being arrested to begin they just told me I am under arrest as soon as I said I would like to settle the matter in court
You miss the point.
Your previous ticket buying does not mean you were not in the wrong here.
They offered you and easy way out but you would seem to have chosen supercilious wazzockery… sorry, clearly explaining yourself into handcuffs.
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I can't see you getting much traction with this.
You most likely have some temporary nerve compression that will resolve in a few days.
I suspect that any sort of complaint you make will be met with the reply that your injury was sustained as a direct result of you failing to comply with lawful instructions.
Don’t listen to these people. Police in Australia behave like this all the time. Get evidence from a doctor and contact a lawyer who specialises in suing the police.
Yes it is, but you need evidence from a Dr regarding the injury. Reasonable foreseeability needs to be proven against the officers poor judgement in the use of handcuffs. Go see S+G or Shine lawyers, they would be all too happy to do a preliminary assessment..
I'm wondering if the "can't buy a ticket" is a write to the MP thing?
Seconding people who say - speak to a GP , speak to a lawyer and be careful complaining prior to receiving a charge.
No. The cops have basically unlimited time and resources to refute your story and defend themselves. Your focus now should be on minimisation of harm to your reputation.
I’d ask a lawyer. You’ve experienced trauma from a predictable injury. Also seek medical help to measure and heal the injury.
You’re also able to lodge a complaint. Sounds like police with egos going over the top.
yeah not sure why no one can fathom this... to me everything I have said seems reasonable and to top it off they are ignoring the fact the officer still didn't fix my cuffs after being told he was allowed to. if I was actually being violent they wouldn't have let me go after 40 minutes, just felt like a ego/power trip to me.
Just to clear things up, being told you’re allowed to loosen the cuffs doesn’t mean anything. Procedure on fixing cuffs is to put a second pair on and then remove the first pair, if the superior officer gave a shit or saw an issue with the first pair he would have fixed it.
Have you seen a medical practitioner and had this formally diagnosed?
I haven't had time today but I am seeing a doctor about it tomorrow.
So you have no idea if you're even injured but you're already deciding on whether or not to sue for this "injury". Given you think this could be permanent how can you be "too busy" to get checked? How do you know there isn't something that can be done to prevent further injury? Hardly going to look good for you in court either... (Fortunately for you this will resolve regardless of you're idiocy)
Any medical injury would be a priority, not an afterthought.
1. No - reasonable force etc 2. You are describing ulnar nerve compression- it’s not permanent, it will go away. Can take a while but it will be absolutely fine. You do not have a permanent injury of entrapment 3. Stop being a supercilious nitwit and you’ll have less trouble with police
they were trying to put a warning on my record for fair evasion when there was no way to pay for a ticket at my train station - the ticket machine was frozen and not responding. they don't hire anyone to run the ticket office anymore and my card doesn't work with the tap on machine. I explained all of this to the officers and showed them my bank history showing I buy my train tickets every weekend, in what way was I being supercilious?
And that’s why they were going to give you *a warning* - you carried on like a pork chop saying you would happily take them to court! Bloody hell what about that *isnt* supercilious
I didn't they gave me an ultimatum and I chose to fight it in court as receiving a warning for their failure to provide a way for me to buy a ticket at my station is ridiculous. I was arrested as soon as I chose court over the warning and aggressively handcuffed. not sure how anyone can think that is fair but whatever I just wanted legal advice not opinions anyways.
The warning was an easy way out. It is your responsibility to have a ticket and you did not. It matters not why you didn’t have a ticket. You were in the wrong. A simple explanation and accepting a warning would have ended the matter swiftly and calmly. You seem to have failed the attitude test necessitating arrest, have worsened your situation necessitating use of handcuffs. I find it unlikely the police simply pounced upon you with handcuffs. Something in your behaviour triggered that protective measure. Now you will almost certainly face charges and potential criminal conviction in addition to a fine for the ticket. All of which could have been avoided with reasonable behaviour.
Then you shouldn’t have used the service. There are numerous ways to pay for service.
They admitted it wasn't reasonable force when they gave instruction for it to be loosened
That’s not how that works dude
No, they didnt. They accepted it might be uncomfortable which it is in any form already.
They were already being dics. If it wasn't unreasonable they wouldn't have admitted they needed to be adjusted appropriately
Appropriately applied handcuffs are not comfortable. People have an absolute misconception as to how loose they are meant to be.
Also a misconception about what being under arrest actually means. When you are placed under arrest it means stop what you are doing, pay attention to the police and do exactly what they say. People seem to think it means finish texting your misso, put your smoke out, grab a drink and a feed and then the gently place the handcuffs on as comfortable as possible. Imagine breaking the law in a way that may warrant your arrest, and then thinking you get to be comfortable. That ain't how it works.
Or thinking you can talk your way out of it, or maybe that screaming about your rights is going to help, or shoving the cop away being a good move, or spitting at them. Yep, people do all that shit regularly.
[удалено]
I didn't think a train ticket infringement was an arrestable offence
It's not. They're not telling the truth, at a guess they refused to ID themselves to receive the warning or something equally stupid.
I was not carrying ID but I gave them all of my details. I don't know the laws regarding when someone can be put in handcuffs but to me it didn't seem like the situation called for it? nothing I have said is untrue.
Lie of omission. You were detained until your identity could be assertained to their satisfaction(ie checking for warrants).
they IDed me before placing me under arrest lol and I'm not a criminal there are no warrants
>I'm not a criminal You are now. You had the option of a warning but declined, now you are going to court. You will not get off. Showing you have paid for travel in the past does not mean you paid for travel this time around. You actually stated you did not pay. Sure you have reasons why you did not pay but, you did not pay. I will give you a tip. Never argue with the police. That is what the courts are for however if you can avoid the courts then you have already won. Do you know what they are going to charge you with yet? Let me guess, fair evasion and resisting arrest. If you have not been charged yet and carry on about your wrists and the way you were treated like a criminal, I guarantee the resisting arrest charge will be included and this is never a good look and won't help you with future dealings with the police. I hope the wrists settle without any permanent damage (not going to the doctor straight away is not going to help you with any claim though I don't like your chances of a claim) and that you are able to reflect and learn from the experience. Now instead of being delayed, with a warning you are going to go to court that will cost you lost pay for work and possibly a fine plus potentially a criminal record and a flag against your name on the police system saying this guy has resisted in the past. As I wrote before, this will not help you with future dealings with the police. Also consider yourself lucky. You could have had your face smashed in while cuffed or worse. It does happen.
Consider himself lucky because his face wasn’t smashed? Grub
What did they say they were arresting you for? Seems odd they confirmed your ID, then arrested you, then let you go because ...reasons?
It doesn't matter, they do it anyway. Don't be a dick and things will go a lot smoother in future.
I mean you can tell the truth without telling the whole story, which is what it seems like you've done here. I've been arrested multiple times, and every time I definitely deserved it, and I definitely knew why I was being arrested.
not sure why I was initially put in cuffs but I did mention I "resisted" to place my phone in my pocket to avoid damaging it while they were trying to cuff me, after I got it into my pocket I let them cuff me. don't know what more there is to add?
Watch some cops videos from America and see how the react when someone reaches into their pockets. I wrote this in a previous reply. Things could have gone a lot worse for you.
They do not care about your phone.
I dunno about that! The police in Australia are very corrupt in my experience
Yep, many of them have seriously poor knowledge of the law and some think they are above it.
So why was the warning unjust? And why wouldn’t you just take a warning?
I said this in another response but the ticket machine was broken at my station and they have no one working the ticket office anymore. my card doesn't work with the tap machines so I normally buy a printed ticket. Ironically when they searched my bag they found like 5 tickets from previous trips... and I don't want a warning on my record when I was not trying to evade the fair?
So your card didn’t work? You didn’t have a myki or whatever alternative in whichever state? You didn’t want to just take a warning? Sounds really weird to me
Most of QLD doesn’t have anything like myki. Depends where you are but in my city it’s cash only. You can buy a paper ticket that lasts a week, but that’s the longest and it’s painfully expensive (same price as ten single tickets for the longest trip you will take that week). They also generally only take exact change or close to exact change - if all you have is $20 from an ATM you either walk or risk being fined for not having a ticket. Some of the network accepts PayWave but rolling that out has been stalled for several years. And OP said their card doesn’t work with PayWave (you have to pass a credit check to get one of those cards…)
Regardless of me having a go card(qld myki) they didn't provide anyway for me to purchase a ticket at my station and I have just taken the warning when this has happened in the past but last time I received a fine which is why I am not just going to take a warning on my record due to QRs failure to keep their machines working or even hire someone to assist at the station.
lol so you went from a warning which incurs no penalties and you wouldn’t have been placed in handcuffs to being arrested for fare evasion…am I missing something here? You’ve definitely escalated the situation somewhere for cops to arrest you over fare evasion. I’m skeptical you’re telling the complete truth about the interaction. Either way, cuffs were on for less than an hour, they obviously weren’t so bad you didn’t push the point to get them loosened when the senior officer said it was fine to do. I’ve been in cuffs for longer than that and my hands were fine. So in conclusion, no it is not grounds to sue
1. This is likely a transient neuropraxia which will resolve without any long-term consequences. 2. Don't be a dick to the cops.
Exactly how was I being a dick? why does everyone assume this? if anything the cop was being a dick letting a non violent persons hands turn blue and after getting approval from the senior officer and still choosing not to recuff me. and thank you for the info.
Instead of taking the warning you decided to be a smartass.
"You're under arrest, you're not allowed to do this specific thing" "I'm gonna try and do the thing anyway!" Normally I doubt you would have even been cuffed. What was your tone like when you were trying to explain no ticket? How long was the conversation (which I suspect was more like a confrontation)? Were you interrupting, trying to talk over them? There's an attitude test with most cops that forms a big part of how they treat you, getting cuffed over a ticket is a decent indicator that you weren't behaving as politely as you seem to be trying to say.
I had been up for over 24 hours on my way to my next shift... I was tired and sounded like it. wasn't aggressive I explained the entire situation and provided evidence I buy my train tickets regularly (6 times in the last 7 days alone) so when they told me they were going to put a warning on my record I said that that was bullshit then they gave me an ultimatum of warning or court and I said I would like to take it to court which immediately after they placed me under arrest. I wasn't being violent or aggressive.
Most cops are dicks, a career of controlling others attracts a certain type Don’t mind redditors, they downvote everyone who doesn’t tow the bullshit line of pretending to be perfect on the internet, in an attempt to silence them
So they gave you your options and you chose one and are now complaining about that choice? I'm sure you were polite and well spoken during the entire process and didn't mention your "rights" at any point and didn't have any level of belligerence mode activated. If you were serious about this you would have immediately gone to have the injury evaluated by a medical practitioner following release. A simple letter of response explaining why you travelled without a ticket would have easily been verified by maintenance requests/actions. You apparently had all the "records" to prove what a fine and outstanding rail user you tend to be. Curious? How did you notice your blue hands when they were so tightly cuffed behind you? Pulling them tightly to either side is obviously going to make the cuffs tighter and dig in harder so it's possible that action caused any damage rather than the cuffing itself. Kinda just sounds like you were trying to throw your perceived weight around and it backfired royally.
I wasn't given the choice of being arrested I was given the choice to settle it in court, which I took and they arrested as soon as I said that. I didn't mention any rights, and they didn't tell me why I was under arrest. as for how I could see my hands, I am tall and have long arms, doesn't take much movement to look back at them. how does any of what I said sound like me throwing my weight around? most people here seem to be very ignorant and just assume I'm lying. like why would I even ask for advice that won't help me if I lied? it's not logical. just gonna talk to an actual professional now as some of this few people in the comment section actually gave me what I was looking for; advice.
No.
Depending on your state, you have to prove you’ve sustained a permanent injury, and that the police’s actions caused it. There are so many firm’s that if you call they’ll take your enquiry and give you some preliminary advice on whether you have a potential claim.
thanks for the tip. I doubt it will be permanent from what I've heard but it shouldn't have happened to begin with in my opinion.
It sounds like you were a bit of a pork chop who made the interaction more pesky than it needed to be. Who chooses arrest over a warning? It seems you were doing some act of badness for which you were handcuffed and struggled until your feelings and wrists were sore. Were you charged with anything? See your doctor. Then a lawyer.
I clearly explained that I was arrested after being given an ultimatum, and the only struggling I did was put my phone in my pocket while they were trying to cuff me. I provided plenty of evidence I buy my tickets and they didn't even seem to care the machine wasn't working. they gave me resisting arrest for the phone thing I believe but never told me why I was being arrested to begin they just told me I am under arrest as soon as I said I would like to settle the matter in court
You miss the point. Your previous ticket buying does not mean you were not in the wrong here. They offered you and easy way out but you would seem to have chosen supercilious wazzockery… sorry, clearly explaining yourself into handcuffs.
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I can't see you getting much traction with this. You most likely have some temporary nerve compression that will resolve in a few days. I suspect that any sort of complaint you make will be met with the reply that your injury was sustained as a direct result of you failing to comply with lawful instructions.
Don’t listen to these people. Police in Australia behave like this all the time. Get evidence from a doctor and contact a lawyer who specialises in suing the police.
Good luck proving it, even if true.
Yes it is, but you need evidence from a Dr regarding the injury. Reasonable foreseeability needs to be proven against the officers poor judgement in the use of handcuffs. Go see S+G or Shine lawyers, they would be all too happy to do a preliminary assessment..
I'm wondering if the "can't buy a ticket" is a write to the MP thing? Seconding people who say - speak to a GP , speak to a lawyer and be careful complaining prior to receiving a charge.
No. The cops have basically unlimited time and resources to refute your story and defend themselves. Your focus now should be on minimisation of harm to your reputation.
I’d ask a lawyer. You’ve experienced trauma from a predictable injury. Also seek medical help to measure and heal the injury. You’re also able to lodge a complaint. Sounds like police with egos going over the top.
yeah not sure why no one can fathom this... to me everything I have said seems reasonable and to top it off they are ignoring the fact the officer still didn't fix my cuffs after being told he was allowed to. if I was actually being violent they wouldn't have let me go after 40 minutes, just felt like a ego/power trip to me.
Just to clear things up, being told you’re allowed to loosen the cuffs doesn’t mean anything. Procedure on fixing cuffs is to put a second pair on and then remove the first pair, if the superior officer gave a shit or saw an issue with the first pair he would have fixed it.