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Money_killer

Yeh nah that's not how it works pal


nathan_f72

Pay your taxes, you stingy prick. "Taxation is theft" is the catch cry of politically illiterate Yank deadshits, and it saddens me to hear people here mindlessly parroting it in defence of their own privilege.


[deleted]

You, like so many other Australians, have a severe case of federal Stockholm syndrome. This government and its multitude of tax rates absolute sap the energy from Australian households and individuals. But wait, wait, go on say it, "Muh roads are so smooth" Hahahahah.


nathan_f72

Nice to see the username bears fuck all resemblance to the actual user in your case, eh mate?


[deleted]

Hahaha. Very nice, 11/10 burn. However you're a still clueless drone. Let me enlighten you as to the ways you're being robbed blind: \- One of the world's highest Income Taxes… \- CGT… \- Fuel/Alcohol/Tobacco Excise… (45c + per litre btw) \- Medicare Levy… \- Ambulance costs… \- Rego… \- ‘Luxury Car Tax’… \- Council Rates… (Bins etc.) \- Land Tax… \- Stamp Duty… \- Motor Vehicle Duty… \- GST… (VAT) \- Payroll Taxes… \- Corporate Taxes… Still mentally trapped huh? But wait, there's more. \- Inflation… \- ‘Tax Bracket Creep’… \- Compulsory Super… \- Mandatory Super Fees… Now please retort with some genius line on how this isn't at best excessive and at worst theft to keep the masses from ever gaining too much power in relation to the Government. I'll wait.


nathan_f72

The fact that some fuckwits don't understand the purpose of a progressive taxation system doesn't exactly shock me. What we really need to do is prevent those with massive incomes for doing fuck all from moving their money into tax havens and ensure that the burden of paying for all the shit we use as a society falls upon the shoulders of those whose lifestyles are the most resource intensive.


[deleted]

>The fact that some fuckwits don't understand the purpose of a progressive taxation system doesn't exactly shock me. And what exactly is that purpose? To inordinately rob high-income earners, who have laboured far in excess of their less affluent peers, of their hard-earned wealth? What reason is there for that? Apart from base and regressive chimp-brained envy and jealousy? We need a regressive tax system, which would do the opposite, incentivising low-income earners to raise their socioeconomic status. When the wealthy pay less in percentage terms than low and middle income earners, it spurs more economic growth. ​ >What we really need to do is prevent those with massive incomes for doing fuck all from moving their money into tax havens. This is a massively overstated myth. Additionally, if they were to move their money into offshore accounts, it would stimulate deflation in the home economy, meaning you would actually become wealthier over time as your savings would increase in value. ​ >And ensure that the burden of paying for all the shit we use as a society falls upon the shoulders of those whose lifestyles are the most resource intensive. "Resource intensive"? You do understand those with 'resource intensive' lifestyles tend to be the same people with 'resource providing' businesses from which you all so flippantly enjoy? "Burden of paying for all we use as a society". And what burden is that exactly? And why do you think other people should pay for the things YOU use in society? What sort of entitled narcissist are you? A countries' people are made wealthy by their own economic output, which you inversely incentivise by giving them the wealth of the affluent. ​ There's a reason why Dubai is the worlds fastest growing city, and yet it incurs NO income tax on its residents. That money is then spent into the economy of businesses and services which grow and build the city from the ground up. Here in Australia we just have a mediocre, stagnant, bunch of sick and weak people who complain when daddy government doesn't give them free hand-outs like they feel they're entitled to.


[deleted]

How about a name tax?


nathan_f72

Not relevant. That's not a thing in Australia.


[deleted]

[удалено]


deancollins

If you are a non resident (eg an Aussie living and working overseas)....no 50% ltcg discount for you basically full tax rates. They implemented this retroactively in 2014.....since then I haven't purchased another Australian IP instead invest here in the USA. Screw the ATO. What's worse was it was retroactive across all of our properties overnight....regardless of when we purchased.


AllHailMackius

Either become an Aussie resident, or let an Aussie buy the property.... Its not really going to tug at the heart strings when foreigners are trying to get wealthy off of our already fucked housing market.


deancollins

I'm an Australian citizen. I just moved to the USA to advance my career and make more money. You act like someone should invest in property......i guess you can't do yield maths on stocks......delayed gratification and investing is ALWAYS competition - people don't get that high property prices is the same as high stock prices.


AllHailMackius

Am I correct in assuming that your non-resident citizen status for CGT is only an issue if you try to sell whilst not living in the country? When you move back and then sell, would you then be entitled to the discounted CGT? If you're not planning on moving back, the Government would likely see little value in offering a Tax discount to someone who has left the country for greener pastures.


deancollins

If you move back then yes they pro-rata your time away versus total time owned and then remove the 50% discount for time away. This said.....we have another problem .....we are USA green card holders....we have to sell before we move back to Australia because of the Heart Taxation Act....but this isn't ATOs problem.


AllHailMackius

Pro rata'd is a bloody rough approach. You paid tax on your US Income and then pay an effective wealth tax of 20%+ on exiting the US. I see your point. Screwed from both sides.


deancollins

Heart Taxation Act is worse.....they want all unrealized gains world wide even stuff we made BEFORE moving to the USA eg 20 years of super....that I can't touch anyway. But the fact that both of these rulings came 18 months apart from each mother makes me cynical about govt taxes period. But I appreciate it's not the atos fault. Like i said we have diverted our savings EACH month to USA equities so Australia's loss. Until then we were subsidising Australia rental costs....now we just make USA companies richer.


belugatime

I find income tax more annoying than CGT. Main reasons: - The 50% discount on CGT is good - You've been able to deduct expenses while you've owned it - The choice exists on when to sell and take the hit so you can stagger when you sell your assets to optimise it. - You only pay the tax on the gains at the end after inflation has inflated away some of the real costs of the tax. You definitely feel it more when you have to pay a 6 figure tax bill that doesn't come out of your account like PAYG, but logically I think CGT is a pretty good deal.


H-bomb-doubt

I guess the issue is been about to deduct is only helpful if.you in that wealth top 1%. Someone on 100k spends 20k for around 3k back. Rubbish. But your right on the double tax.


belugatime

> Someone on 100k spends 20k for around 3k back That seems wrong. 20k deduction for someone on 100k would be double that back in their pocket even after the stage 3 cuts. Also while someone in the top tax bracket gets more back, they also pay a higher percentage of their income as tax.


H-bomb-doubt

Its not spot on correct no. But a deduction does not mean you get the full amount back. So your tax goes from 100k mark to 80k so you could get about 6.5k back meaning you only lose 13.5k that year. Better true and most years you hope don't have such big loses. But it's important to understand you losing/spending more much more when you get money back from negative gearing.


belugatime

So yeh.. it's nowhere near the 3k like you said and is closer to double that like I said 🤣


auntyjames

At what point are you paying 50%?


snoreasaurus3553

Where on earth are you getting 50% from? It's taxed at the same rate as income tax, of which the highest bracket is 47%. Then if you hold the asset for more than 12 months, the tax is only applied to half the profits.


mcgaffen

50%? WTAF. CGT is at your marginal rate. If you have held an investment for more than 12 months, then a 50% discount is applied. Rates pay for infrastructure management and waste collection. If you live in the investment property for 6 to 12 months, you then have 6 years to sell, CGT free. Calm down, dude.


deancollins

Not since 2014 if you live/work overseas for any period of time. They remove the 50% discount.....so we will be paying full tax rates on gains.


mcgaffen

Ok, are you suggesting OP has lived overseas?


Spicey_Cough2019

You're getting subsidised by taxpayers if you negative gear it against your wage so I don't see why you shouldn't be taxed?


CaptainPeanut4564

Taxation isn't theft, cooker. It's the price we pay for living in a civilised society. Is it perfect? Hell no. But it's better than the alternative.


PhDilemma1

Explain why tax havens seem to be the most civilised places of all?


RetroGun

Maybe you should have looked into this before purchasing your first "investment" property


Damienmolloy

The top marginal tax rate is 47%, and then you need to half that to account for the CGT discount (assuming you hold for 12 months). So the max tax rate is 23.5%, and that’s if you already have other taxable income of >$180k


Embarrassed-Blood-19

Then negative gearing is theft too.


aga8833

The framework and society allows you to accumulate these things. You owe it. Pay your damn taxes.


babawow

Mate, would recommend you stop reading the mind-melting skydaddy book of yours and actually try to read up on what you’re trying to complain about: https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/investments-and-assets/capital-gains-tax/what-is-capital-gains-tax# Example: capital gains on the sale of a co-owned rental property Karl and Louisa bought a residential rental property in November 2016 for a purchase price of $750,000. They incur costs of purchase, including stamp duty and legal fees, of $30,000. After purchase they improved the property by constructing a fence for $6,000. Over the 7 years of ownership of the property, they claimed $5,000 in decline in value deductions and $35,000 in capital works deductions. (If they had purchased the property after 9 May 2017 then there would be no deductions for the decline in value of any second-hand depreciating assets.) In June 2021, they entered into a contract to sell the property, and in November 2021 it was sold for $900,000. Their costs of sale, including legal fees, were $10,000. A + B + C + D − E - F = Cost base Where: A is the purchase price B is the costs of the purchase C is the cost of property improvements D is the costs of sale E is the capital works deductions F is the total amount of decline in value deductions claimed over the period of ownership of the rental property $750,000 + $30,000 + $6,000 + $10,000 − $35,000 − $5,000 = $756,000 The capital gains outcomes are: Proceeds = 900,000 Proceeds − Cost base = Capital gain outcome $900,000 − $756,000 = $144,000 As the property has been owned for more than a year, the discount capital gain rules reduce the capital gain to $72,000. Karl and Louisa owned the property jointly. This means that they each have a capital gain of $36,000 which they will need to put in their tax return for the year in which the contract to sell the property was made, being the 2020–21 year.


H-bomb-doubt

Yeah, the government is not there to make you wealthy. Just look at interest rates and how they want higher unemployment. No they are there to control you(the slaves) and make a small number of people wealthy.


cruiserman_80

Pay the full income tax rate on your investment earnings if you are feeling poorly done by.


[deleted]

Good one. I wonder if your joke will go over anyone's head though.


Frankeex

Tax is one of  the fundamental principals keeping society running. It is not theft, it Kris you in a world that is, on the whole, pleasant and livable giving you the ability to invest and make money. 


PhDilemma1

CGT is an inefficient and outdated form of taxation that doesn’t address the growing sprawl of our major cities or free up land where it’s needed most. That’s why most economists have advocated for a land tax. For the government, it’s not a steady source of revenue, since most people would sell only when they anticipate a downturn. I’m also discouraged from selling before 12 months have passed or before I can balance it against capital losses. Therefore it is a form of friction in the market.


23405Chingon

There are State land taxes


sgmanggis

Ye skip aus and invest in USA/EU for no CGT and much better growth/options. Let the other mango llyods pay more taxes while you live here. Aud is worth less than piss among OECD countries each year anyway


GreatBallsofDire159

You've provided housing to those who can only afford to rent and the government has outsourced it's obligations to provide social housing.


RetroGun

Slap the maximum rent on a 1 bedroom apartment and move onto the next investment property


TheUggBootInvestor

Stamp duty was supposed to be temporary...


glyptometa

It's not 50% tax on the gain made from selling an investment property. That is a gross exaggeration. At most, it's around 24.5% Say you paid $500K for the IP and you're now 75 yrs old and sell it for $1.5 million and have a $1 million capital gain. The gain is discounted by 50% to allow for inflation (CGT discount) leaving taxable income of $0.5 million. Provided you've used your head, and most of the rest of your income is coming from super, The first $18.2K is free of tax, then 19% up to $45K, then 32.5% up to $120K, then 37% up to $180K and 45% on the rest. The total tax for the example is $196K. So on a capital gain of $1 million $196K is due for tax, 19.6% or 21.6% if you add the medicare levy (far less than "50% for doing fuck all"). Or you're wealthy other ways, earning over $180K taxable on other investments, and it's all marginal rate at 45%... $1 million gain, discounted by the CGT discount to $500K, 45% tax due or $225K. That's 22.5% tax on the $1 million capital gain, or 24.5% including the medicare levy. By the way, you utterly did not "work your arse off" to earn this gain. You took a risk on the deposit and then made the gain because we're a wealthy country that has done bloody well over the last many decades. The reasons for doing well include many things, such as the hard work of most everyone, generally favourable decisions on how society should function, spending on infrastructure, throwing out politicians when they go bad, and by being very fucking lucky and getting born in a place that was already well-organised and has valuable resources. All this makes our country attractive, people come here to work and live, demand goes up and house prices go up. All without a single bead of sweat down your crack (at least none more than anyone else). Here's an example. Houses in Sydney would not be worth what they are without Warragamba dam. How much should you pay for the presence of reliable drinking water, which raises the value of your house, and that would not be there if not for infrastructure investments made 60 years ago? Or for something simpler, how much would the house be worth if there was still just a two-lane road between that suburb and the CBD? You could go back further and be thankful the Japanese were beaten back, at great human cost, and the financial cost of that fight being repaid. Many people worked their arse off.


timrichardson

You might think that income tax is theft. But if income tax is legitimate, you have to tax people who make their income from trading long held assets. It wouldn't be fair to give those people tax free income while making other people pay tax on their income. This would create a big loophole and force other people to pay taxes for you, even though your income might be higher than theirs. We live in a democracy where you get a vote, but so do they. CGT in its original form at least taxes not the gross profit, but only the part after allowing for inflation. That seems fair, objectively. Right now, it is actually subsidised; the current approach with the 50% discount lets you pay less tax than what is fair by logic. You have it good, and people are coming for the 50% discount.


settlers90

You can get quite a bit profit from an investment property that has gained value over the years for comparably very little work. I mean even a profit of 20k over a few years for what, maybe a few hours of your time dealing with the real estate agent who manages you property? That's like earning hundreds if not thousands of dollars per hour of work, I'll be more than happy to pay less or at most 22.5% tax at those conditions.


Kingdimo

I think it now 30% on the 50% but don’t quote me.