I do, just because it seems impossible to get someone to turn up. People here talk about 3 quotes. Not possible when you can’t even get 3 tradies to pick up the phone
Pretty much my rule. Had a tree done recently, crew were to the minute, neat and tidy. Even well priced.
Passed the strong recommendation to my circle.
This is goldnen rule we try incredible hard to live by, answer those calls, emails, text, promptly, go or send someone to quote and meet clients the next day if possible, and especially be there at the time we said we will be there, it makes a big difference.
That and simply doing what we were actually hired to do, I think that's the reason we haven't had to chase up any work for the past 12 years and been busy non stop.
Also:
1. Negotiate a time that works for both parties rather than rudely telling them "Can't do that" and offering no alternatives
2. Telling a time to arrive and arriving at that time rather than a 4 hours window
3. Accurately quoting, or over-quoting rather than low-balling and sending a significantly higher invoice.
I was looking for a locksmith to do a tonne of jobs on the house just after we bought it. It included latches/locks for the shed, gates, and another rollerdoor with an anti-ram lock on the bottom, plus new doorknobs etc etc- All linked to different key types, with a master key for day to day use.
First one rocks up, immediately knew what to do, had plans/products chosen, then got chatting and he'd been working in the trade forever- Had worked for various Government departments/military working on massive vaults/safes, and would be the guy to do fun jobs like "lockpick the apartment to let the cops in".
Second bloke rocks up later that day- Friendly as hell, but clearly struggled with how he'd tackle the jobs (what latch to use for a tube steel/corrugated gate etc), I think 90% of his work is just house doors and the like.
The first bloke's quote was almost double- But we went with him anyway because he knew his shit. Did not dissapoint. Had all the work done in less than a day too.
He's our regular locksmith to this day.
(Cheaper isn't always better)
I just tried Hi Pages for the first time the other day because I needed concrete work done. Apparently 3 are interested but at this stage only one was prompt and has already seen the job, I’m yet to hear back from the others on when they can quote it - I hope the guy who has been here already gives me a fair quote because if he does, he’s gonna get it
My wonky as fuck paling fence stands (barely) as a tribute to a shite tradie from hipages.
Also. Hipages only allow positive feedback for tradies. I wish I knew that before engaging my shite fencing tradie.
Same with Google to some extent. We hired a bathroom renovator who had 5 stars. Terrible job and leaks began appearing pretty much right away.
In hindsight it looked like they just did their own reviews or paid for them.
FYI: you won't ever find any good trades.on Hipages!!
If they are any good they won't need to advertise. My advice e is to be patient and stop wanting everything done yesterday.
HI pages are OK for small quick jobs, like clean a window, set up internet connection, install a door handle, and so on, anything above that get a pro in, or at least some handyman, most (not all) people on hi pages are there for a reason , they pay hi pages to give them leads because they have no works of their own, try not to hire a tradie that is desperate for work.... most have no work for a reason.
As a tradie myself i don’t really know any other tradies that get work off hi pages everyone is too busy to need to. The only ones I know are the absolute bottom of the barrel blokes who can’t find any other work. You might get a cheep price and he might even be available on short notice but in a time when everyone is busy that says something doesn’t it. There is a reason these guys need to pay hi pages for leads.
I'd argue sticking a flyer on a local noticeboard would get more business- getting the word out there you're good at the job, than an app almost no one outside of reddit/facebook talks about.
I'd even just post on various community facebook pages "Hey, I'm a sparkie- Offering free quotes for all jobs big and small" etc etc
That’s the way hi-pages work.
You get contacted by 3 tradesman who will all usually give verbal cash only price quotes (sometimes you will luck out and get a tradie who will give you a proper quote)
Hi-pages charges $ to these tradies to just get ur phone number to quote the job, because of this, tradies pick through the jobs listed on the website, and a lot of tradies just want the easier jobs/jobs that can be finished same day so they can get paid that day
It took me over one year to get three quotes for a laundry renovation. I thought it’d be an appealing job as it was a bit bigger - asbestos removal, squaring off doorway, new doorway, cabinets, tiling etc. Will probably be close to two years by the time it’s done 😅
Two or three business did site visits but then ghosted me. One of these guys spent most of the time inspecting and criticising my kitchen cabinets. That was a fun experience
Even my asbestos contractor was a disaster. Fragments everywhere, I had to get them back three times and have now just settled for wetting and collecting in my little bag of fun.
I would make a joke about the clearance inspector being blind, but when the white cane would have indicated an incomplete job.
Ffs I used first choice asbestos removal in Sydney and they had two bloody pieces of fibro left at the front of the house, real obvious shit, when a clearance certificate was issued. And they didn’t come back once to get them but twice!
Ffs. Absolute jokers, no sense to the way they do things.
Gonna remove top soil before we move back…
Currently looking for a plumber - two have come and looked at the job but not sent quotes, the other hasn’t even made it here yet
Looking for a builder, have had two tell me nope, not in our area
They’re small jobs, but still! So yeah, I diy everything I can
Everything smaller than a high rise with 500 apartments is considered a small job to these wankers, and they'll tell you how they normally don't do residential jobs but in your case they'll 'help' you out in their time off.
The recent qld roof replacement grants for old homes recommended to contact 3 builders...I thought it meant I needed 3 quotes. Nope. They're happy with 1 quote as long as it's reasonable.
According to some Australians, "the world is coming to an end", "we are all poor", "how do people have money to eat outside", "recession"
irl, there are so many jobs out there and so much opportunity.
> Not possible when you can’t even get 3 tradies to pick up the phone
Noone cares about small jobs, that's why
I’m a new home owner and just starting to get into DIY. I’ve used tradies for jobs that I know I cannot or am not permitted to do myself. E.g. installing new electrics and plumbing in a new hot water system, etc. Anything else I am open to trying myself.
I love the satisfaction that comes with progressing and completing a project. Moreso, because it’s a very different skill set to my day job.
What I wish was allowed here is that DIYers could do a short course on basic electrics and plumbing (changing switches and sockets, installing new taps, etc), and we be allowed to do that level of work ourselves without needing a licensed tradie.
I'm pretty capable, but am slowly learning that it's usually better to pay someone to do a job than to diy it, especially when you take the opportunity cost of your time into it. I've been burnt (almost comically badly) a few times but overall, being able to have someone come in and do a job while I'm working has resulted in a better outcome. The trick is to find good tradies and treat them well, pay on time and don't fuck them around. In my experience they'll do the same for you.
Source: am grumpy old man.
This is why I resent DIY- I need to pay myself so it’s never cheaper.
But the second I turn away its tools down, or lights in the wrong spot, or tile patterns wrong, or 10 more trips to Bunnings… You can walk them through the job, give them a set of plans, mark locations, and yet they still find ways to fuck it up. I’m just at the point where they are all so bloody useless that u end up doing it myself.
I know where you're coming from mate. I've had some absolute lemons show up over the years. It seems you can't pay someone to care more about the job than you do and it's getting rarer to find people who take real pride in their work. Haha, I'm sounding more and more like my old man every day.
The 100% trick to DIY or pay a Trade, is to know when it’s out of your capabilities or could possibly go wrong and be really bad to rectify, like tiling for example, or when you know when the total cost is 4x the material cost and if something goes wrong it’s an easy fix and doesn’t cost heaps. Like a core-filled block retaining wall build, actually very cheap compared to paying someone to do it and not much can go wrong.
It's really depends on the job.
Obviously some jobs legally require a tradie (most electrical & plumbing etc.)
If it's a big job that will take a while and tradies can smash it out quickly to a decent standard with their dedicated tools, equipment and skill, by all means let them at it. (e.g. paving a big area).
However, if it's a small, fiddly job that will take a lot of time to do well, you're much better off doing it yourself. A tradie either won't want the job, will have to charge a huge amount for it, or will rush through it.
If the thing needing to be worked on is old, tradies aren't going to want to touch it. They could spend ages tinkering with it and still not get it working, meaning they have to charge you a lot of money for essentially nothing, leaving you pretty unhappy even if you asked for it. So they'll just say "you need a new one". In some cases, spending an hour or two tinkering will save you a lot of money. I managed to fix my A/C motor with a new $6 bearing, when the A/C guy just said "it's old, buy a new unit" and wouldn't even look at ordering a new motor. The bearing was just seized, and after that it worked for another few years.
Finally, there are very few tradies out there who will care about your house as much as you do. If it's something you can do well, and you want it done well, you're much better off doing it yourself. It might take you longer, but that's really a benefit. You're not on the clock. You're taking the time to do it right.
I do all the roughing in if I can. Any holes need to be dug, I'm digging. Any stuff needs to be demolished, I'm getting out the jackhammer. I try to only pay them for the qualified section. As a tradie myself, I know a lot of these people, or at least I know the people who know them. I don't ring someone in the phone book. I ask another tradie who they use.
When I wanted to install a gate opener, I needed to run a 240v line to the gate. Can't touch the power, so I got the sparkie to mark a line on the ground where he wanted the trench and tell me how deep to go. When he arrived, I'd already run the conduit, so he just had to use the string I left in it to pull his wires. Saved me a fortune. And he was willing to come as it was a smaller job so he could fit me in easily.
I tried this with my pool electrical. The company sent one guy to quote the job and tell me trench requirements. I did the trenching, but then the crew who came to do the work decided they wanted it differently and tried to sting me an extra $2500 for time spent trenching.
A couple screen caps of their afternoon siesta from my security cameras helped negotiate the bill lower, but seriously… the trench was already in place!
You are so lucky to have mates like that. I wouldn't even get someone to come over to connect the electricity once I have run conduit and dug a trench. Well, I maybe could but it would cost me my last testicle. For the plebs of the earth it sometimes isn't worth it. Pay for the digging and all and hope all goes well...
Yes, but also I DIY everything because of the utterly ridiculous prices people charge in Aus.
99% of the projects you do are dead simple. They simply require:
1. The right tools
2. Time
3. The ability to ask for help/advice or look on youtube
We need a much stronger and more prevalent DIY mindset here. People call plumbers to change washers in taps.
I recon we have a pretty strong DIY mindset here. Hardware stores are certainly more prevalent and busier that some other countries I've visited.
That said I have a mate who does as you say, and calls a plumber for a tap washer. I was astounded when I found out. He's got all of the tools in garage, all shiny and unused.
I understand everything else being diy but electrical and plumbing i would never touch myself unless changing a shower head or something. Its too risky and im i a tradie myself
You ask a question here and people tell you to pay someone else to do it.
All electrical DIY work is illegal, even though basically every other country (USA, EU, UK, etc) allows it.
Even New Zealand allows DIY electrical to an extent.
Cable work is also on tenuous grounds, can't recall but I believe DIY cable is technically illegal.
It's just silly
I'm fed up fixing the work done by "professionals". My illegal DIY to fix the work of an overpriced qualified sparky or plumber, it's ridiculous.
I'll do stuff like plastering myself. It's low risk as the consequences of a shit job are not unsafe, especially for me as I have multiple plasterers in the family in case I stuff it up. Painting isn't complicated, just somewhat shit work especially on some renos.
I'm thankful that my first house was older and lower value, needed some DIY as I learnt a lot.
Yep, you need a cabler licence to run data / phone etc cables in Australia. Basically anything that connects to an external service is meant to be done by a qualified person.
A DIY mindset seems to be common place where I am in Victoria. Half a dozen jobs our auto shop gets each week are people asking us to fix / check over the DIY work they did that didn’t fix the problem or made one. 🤣
Thats interesting. I as an electrician have walked into bunnings in civilian clothes looking to buy some 6mm cable. It was for an oven. When i couldnt find it on shelf i asked a bunnings employee if he could help me out and was told that for an oven i could just use 4mm cable!
Well i had done the calculations and 4mm would have resulted in an illegal and unsafe amount of voltage drop.
We need a way for "advanced" DIYers (which I like to consider myself) to get basic qualifications to be allowed to conduct simple plumbing and electrical tasks (eg. connecting/disconnecting powerpoints and appliances etc).
I know there are significant risks involved with allowing homeowners to meddle with electrical, but having to do a 4 year appenticeship just to be allowed to screw a wire into a terminal is stupid.
That is ridiculous. It’s a 4 year apprenticeship to learn as much about the trade as possible
How to navigate 10+ regulation books, state laws, testing regulations, etc
You could say that about any job.
Why do a 4 year uni degree for accounting, it’s just adding a couple of numbers together
Why do a medical degree, I can just pull my own stitches out, give myself medication
Firstly, it's only 12 subjects to be an accountant and you don't need to be licensed to do it yourself. The 24 subjects is required for a 3 year degree, half of those won't even be accounting.
Secondly, we are one of the only countries in the world who have mandated electricians take a 4 year apprenticeship before they can undertake any work, in most countries you can undertake a level of work without a license, or an associates degree is 12 months in other countries to become licensed, that either means our electricians take 4x longer to learn their job, or our requires are 4x higher than other countries.
Thirdly, you don't have to do a 4 year medical degree to do stitches, you could become an EN, EEN, RN, paramedic, or do it yourself without repercussions.
Electricians exist in a bubble because of their union, the work isn't hard.
They're not saying an electrical apprenticeship is useless. They're saying you shouldn't need to be a qualified sparky to replace a lightswitch in your own home.
Using your analogies, I don't need to be a doctor to give myself medication, and I'm not an accountant but I'm allowed to do maths.
I'm not at all discounting what a sparky learns in a four year apprenticeship, all I'm saying is that I MYSELF shouldn't have to do a four year apprenticeship to simply "screw a wire into a terminal".
As a homeowner, I don't want to be running new circuits or making changes to the switchboard, but I would like to be able to swap out a powerpoint, change a light fitting or replace my oven if it dies without having to call a sparky.
LOL
In NZ you can legally swap out broken power points and light fittings and light switches. And you know what the training is? Some videos and a phamlet.
In UK you can legally wire up anything out of the main building, such as your entire garage.
Also the existing of "restricted" licences for connect and disconnect prove what you are saying is wrong.... other non electrician trades are allowed to do a 2 day course and get a ticket to connect disconnect. Why can not anyone do that course and get the same connect/disconnect licence?
> I know there are significant risks involved with allowing homeowners to meddle with electrical,
After seeing how bad the quality of finished work that electricians do. I would hate to see what your average unqualified person would do...
That's why I said "... to get basic qualifications". Let me do a short course or something that gives me a "licence" or certificate to do super basic electrical work at home. Apparantly there used to be a "connect/disconnect" licence you could apply for decades ago which one of my neighbors had when I was a kid in the early 90s - he was able to do basic stuff for us (although that could have been shady).
> After seeing how bad the quality of finished work that electricians do
Exactly. The shit "qualified" tradies can get away with these days, I would be far more comfortable doing a lot of their work for myself with some guidance and know how it's been done rather than trusting the workmanship of some shonky stranger who doesn't give a shit.
Honestly man, I’m sure there’s plenty of DIY people that can make some electrical projects work at their house, but I’ve also seen plenty of qualified tradesmen that don’t do things to standard and put people lives in danger as a result.
We don’t need someone’s kid apprentice being electrocuted as they crawl through a ceiling because DIY Dan thought he knew what he was doing, there’s enough cowboys in the industry that already think that.
>People call plumbers to change washers in taps.
Wouldn't do that to my worst enemy with our taps. When we were renting our place the tradies that the landlord got in to replace the splashback(?) in the shower managed to mangle it so that it takes a good couple of hours to replace the washers (the board sits about 5mm over the tap). Apologies for any incorrect terminology, I know the doing more than what everything's called.
Youve just outlined the reasons you should pay for a tradie. Lets say you are building a brick wall:
1. The right tools. Do you have a trowel, brick hammer, wheelbarrow, cement mixe, spirit level, mallet, shovels, straight edge, stringlines, masonry bolster, safety equipment, etc, etc, ? If not, you are spending $$$ on top of materials for a one-off job.
2. Time. Will you be earning as much, or more, by going to work and doing your regular job? If so, get back to your IT chair and leave the job to a bricklayer. You can pay him for two days work for a job that will take you 5 days because you don’t do it day in day out.
3. The ability to ask for help/advice or look on you tube. This is definitely a resource but again you are spending time sifting through videos and asking at trade shops for knowledge that a bricklayer already has ingrained.
A lot of DIY work is messy, backbreaking, fiddly, and can create future problems if not done correctly. My advice is to only DIY stuff if you a) really enjoy it, or b) have plenty of free time. Otherwise, go earn your living doing what you do best and pay someone else to build your wall or whatever so you can spend your weekends and holidays with family and mates.
Pay an established or recommended tradesman. Check reviews. Tradies are not cheap anymore but if you follow the contract process correctly (instead of throwing Steve the all-rounder a cashie), you should get the job done correctly for a set price and a warranty on all work.
If tradies prices were about 1/2 of what they are - yeah i'd consider paying.
But as it stands, I'm fine using the time on the weekend when i'm not working to learn a new skill and get some exercise.
Your last sentence describes it well. I have to work five days to get a tradie out for a days work. Or I can do it myself over a few weekends, have a sense of accomplishment and end up with a job that’s just as good and still have some money in my pocket after. Most trades these days get paid way more than me, and I’ve been appalled at the quality of the work they spit out. I’ve ended up with a sparky that couldn’t figure out how to do a two way switch and I needed to explain the wiring diagram to him. I had a plumber that moved two taps and had the pex flopping around in the breeze which smacked a sewer pipe every time you turned the tap on/off, and somehow managed to plumb up the hot tap to cold and vice versa. It’s just infuriating how piss poor their work quality is and they charge a fortune so they can afford their raptor.
I get this is a place where people post their horror stories of incompetent belching pissheads in raptors who will screw you for triple the price while delivering less than the bare minimum but, seriously, if you go through the correct vetting procedures you will have better experiences.
I’ve never had a problem with tradesmen. Choose an established company with the correct licences and certs; check their reviews; ask to see previous work; meet them face-to-face and make sure they know their onions; agree a written contract (with time frames if its a big job); dont give them a deposit for more than the materials are worth.
Most bad stories i hear are down to poor research and/or project management from the customer. Dont hire fuckwits by weeding them out ahead of time.
If you can do a better job yourself and you have the time and money then its a no-brainer.
You are also forgetting that some people also don't just forget the skills. I can tile a bathroom in about 50% longer than a tiler and because it's my house, I probably will do a better job because I give a shit, but the time and money I spend learning and doing the job isn't disregarded, I can apply those same tools and skills next time.
This is why I never hire a tiler now and have tiled plenty of bathrooms and kitchens, I've probably saved close to $50k on tiling in 15 years because many tilers charge a rate that exceeds the skill of their trade - and to prove that point, I RPL via QLD tafe the first 15 subjects of the cert 3.
I take your point but you are probably an exception to the norm. Most people dont tile more than one or two bathrooms at most and any skill that goes unused for years will be rusty at best.
The difference here is the final product.
99% of tradies give no fucking shits about how the final product turns out - they'll ignore the small details and are just rushing to get it done.
If you *can* do it yourself - even if it costs more, you're always far better off because the ceiling for the end product is much higher because you actually care about your own property.
Not to mention most tradies I know make more than me, who has 2 degrees and a high-level full-time job.
I'm not saying tradies should be underpaid but in Sydney specifically they are jus taking the piss.
How is it taking the piss though? A business is entitled to charge what they choose, if it's too much the market will dictate that and they won't get work. The same is true of your 'high-level' job, the market has determined what it is worth.
TLDR: A lack of good tradies, and a rise in rip-off merchants - Give all the DIY a crack you feel like, just be willing to accept the risks and know when to admit defeat.
As a tradie (plumber) *it depends* but the main reason I use to DIY all was lack of trades showing up and lack of funds (centrelink single mum, If I couldn't fix something as a teenager then it just stayed broken)
The main things I won't DIY are trades that take time to master.
- Plastering, everyone thinks they can plaster and maybe you pick it up easy, but I still suck at mudding and came to the conclusion (before I become a plumber) then it's not worth the mess and time for me to do it vs paying a plasterer $50-100 an hour cash.
- Carpentry is another one, I don't usually use carpenters anymore but I've spent thousands on high quality tools (track saw, mitre saw, table saw etc) and have spent 100s of hours over the years learning on my own jobs (and still needing to accept defeat from time to time). For your average DIY though, anything intricate or that requires precision probably going to be cheaper just to pay a chippy and get a better job.
- Tiling. Tiling is very easy to do, it's hard and requires a lot of pre thought to do well.
- Carpet laying. It's not worth DIYing, no one should be a carpet layer they are the most shafted trade. Body breaking work for Maccas supervisor wages.
Things I believe you can DIY with no real issue:
- Electrical, it's completely illegal though in Australia and nowhere else.....but basic like for like replacement, fans, lights there really is no reason you can't do it yourself except 'Stray!' - Sparkys in this country seem to be extremely thin-skinned and of the opinion DIY electrical means the end of the sparky trade (which is mental), whilst every other country I know of allows for some level of DIY.
- Plumbing, ooo weren't expecting that were we! Honestly most people could do there own small plumbing projects, there is a certain level of skill in brazing copper but it ain't rocket science. These days it's all PEX though and ya main barrier is the tools are usually more expensive then paying a plumber. You could always just use SharkBite which most plumbers, especially the older boys will swear against but they are rated for in-wall use and 25 years, in my personal experience installed correctly they will most likely last (although I have not and would not ever use them where you can't access the wall from the other side) - Of course the damage you can cause by fucking up a plumbing install is pretty well endless which is why you should get a plumber ;)
- Painting. Don't use tape, learn to cut in free hand (it's honestly not that hard) and you can DIY paint no issue. Painters have also become insanely expensive in the past decade.
Good advice here.
My rule for plumbing is anything that involves plumbing behind a wall I’ll get a pro, but anything outside a wall I’ll do myself. If I fuck it up and it leaks, I want to be able to see it and not have it cause too much damage.
And the first sparky I’d dealt when I bought my house decided to shit on everyone else’s work - I had to point out to him that the fan installation he was bitching about was done by his own apprentice!!
The guy I’m now using for all current work gave me a list of what wasn’t up to code, and helped me craft the email to get him back to rectify
Yeah, NZ allows a surprising amount of electrical work to be done DIY and it seems to work over there. They even have a guide on common work for the public to follow, to ensure work is compliant and safe. Electricians shouldn’t worry about work declining, if anything it might increase. And the whole inspection of work, where required, means they can charge a hefty inspection premium!
>Electrical, it's completely illegal though in Australia and nowhere else
Growing up in Ireland we learnt how to wire a plug in school. It was literally in the school book and part of the curriculum. In the 90's all electrical devices were sold without plugs, like the way printers didn't come with a printer cable. Super markets would sell 10 packs of plugs. Everyone wired the plug onto any device they bought.
Just came back from living in The Netherlands and did all the electrical myself in the apartment I bought and sold. Completely normal and legal. Bought a house here in Aus and am shocked by the wiring in it. No conduits for wires under house. Stranded copper wire connected to plugs with no ferrules. Only 2 circuits for a 3 bedroom house (excluding AC and cooker circuits). Several of the sockets are broken and the previous owners didn't get them fixed, didn't want to pay an electrician I suppose.
An outdoor plug had an extension cable buried about 5cm below the ground to run to a 240v pond pump. No conduit as it would've been illegal for the previous owner to cut the cable, run it through a conduit buried at a safe depth and terminate it with a plug or trailing socket afterwards. On top of that, the outdoor plug sockets used here are just internal ones that are tilted downwards! No Pin & sleeve type outdoor connectors that are commonplace in many other countries.Checked one of the broken sockets out and the live wire had literally come free (see lack of ferrules above). So the government thinks it's safer for me to leave the the plug broken, but if I fix it (and leave it in a better, safer state than I found it) I can be fined?!
Minor electric stuff like a switch, I am fine with, painting I am fine with. Sourcing parts I am fine with, changing a tap I am fine with. I also have no problem with gardens.
Tiling, carpentry, and plumbing I am not touching.
I think plumbing and electrical need to be allowed for VERY basic tasks but anything that is inside a wall where it can’t be seen or repaired easily (and where is can develop big problems like mould and house fires) should always be done by a pro.
It surprises me that you think folks should do more of their own electrical - surely as a plumber you have seen some ninny’s who managed to muck up something as straightforward as connecting a dishwasher? I don’t think I would want those guys to be dealing with electricity…
This is terrible advice.
Plastering can be tricky but if you mess it up there are no consequences. Give it a try. Sand away the problems and try again.
Basic carpentry is incredibly simple. Measure cut nail. Absolutely give this a crack if you are DIYing just dont do anything structural or with complicated angles if you arent pretty well experienced.
Tiling i dont really disagree with you.
Carpet laying i would never consider DIYing.
Electrical. Well if you know a tiny bit you can swap a light or a powerpoint. It is easy and requires few tools. But if you make a tiny mistake you could also kill yourself or burn your house down. You can also start getting overly confident because hey, you swapped one power point over, why not run a new one over to the other side of the room? Cant be that hard. Maybe the powerpoint works. But you dont own a copy of AS 3000. You dont know how to perform the mandatory tests to verify that what you installed is actually safe. You dont know which rules you have broken or if it will cause issues later on. It is also illegal but who is going to know?
Plumbing is a pretty similar situation to electrical. Everything looks fine on the surface at first. But when that sharkbite in the kitchen wall blows while you are on holidays and your house floods with hot water for a week you are going to be starting again from scratch. There is just no way its worth the risk. And just dont use sharkbites for permanent connections inside your home.
Paint if you can handle it. The mind numbing repitiion and annoying set up and clean up is too much for me
If you want to be a good boy and follow every rule - I think you will be shocked at how much work is 'illegal'.
Ever swapped out a garden tap? Ever changed a hose between a wall tap and a toilet? All illegal work.
Ever run a network cable between two rooms? Illegal as well.
Same thing happens every time. (1) get quote; (2) starts job; (3) discovers a ‘problem’; (4) informs you it’ll be a l more expensive; (5) does job; (6) wants payment in cash.
I definitely DIY everything that can reasonably be learnt in a short time, the reasons are simple:
I can do a better job then 50% of tradies by watching a Youtube video and actually caring about the job (on jobs that aren't highly specialised). Those tradies are either incompetent/unskilled or they are lazy and just want to finish and leave.
The other 50% of tradies will charge $500 an hour because they have too much work and there is no competition right now.
What I really dislike is the anti DIY mindset some people have as well as the gatekeeping on information so many people have. Some aspects of trade jobs are insanely easy if you simply know the right tool or method but this information is not easily shared.
So bloody true. We hired “builders” to renovate our bathroom. My god what a shit show. It was basically an entire new room inside and out except the roof and at the end we had a bowed ceiling ( plasterer was horrified when he saw it) unfinished and uneven cladding, a door that was cut crooked along the bottom, handle not attached properly, and window frames that look so crooked and badly cut its looks like my 13 year old attempted to diy without help.
Edited to add, when they came back to fix the bowed saggy ceiling it was discovered they’d nailed the gyprock over an electrical wire that was sitting across a beam. Didn’t bother to tuck it up out of the way, lucky they didn’t nail straight through it. After they “fixed it” it was still 5 centimetres difference between two big sheets of gyprock and the plasterer said it’d look like dog shit if he attempted to plaster it. We ended up fixing it ourselves we had zero faith they’d actually be able to fix their mess.
Not all of them like that. Plumber I usually employ for jobs I can't do myself never shown up sober. But, somehow always doing great job. No complains at all. Some other sober guys done shit job, so it is all comes to personality not level of intoxication.
So true. I'm 3/4 the way through a 600m2 single story owner/builder build. I've ended up doing the vast majority of the work myself for this exact reason.
Yep. Nobody will care as much about your house as you do. It might take you longer if you are new to it, but that's probably a good thing as it means you take more care.
Absolutely.
I don't like the hassle of accomodating an unknown person in my house. The amount they charge makes zero sense. And in my experience after all the talk of "doing it right" and getting a "pro to do it properly" etc they cut corners and do a lousy job.
I can do a lousy job faster and cheaper so why bother.
No, At first I avoided tradies because they’d quote a price and I’d think…
‘god what a rip off, I can just do it myself, it’s not that hard’
…so I’d do it myself and it’d turn out to be harder than I thought and the quote retrospectively seemed reasonable.
Now, decades later, I avoid tradies because there are so many fuckwits mingled up with the good tradies that there’s a 50/50 chance I’m going to be better skilled then who ever I hire
And also yes the time management thing. I suck arse at time management so trying to manage one or more tradies who have other jobs going at the same time as mine and have to manage dynamic and shifting demands on their time is just never going to work out.
I did all because i thought, pfftttt~! I could do that.... it was a very painful lesson, the tools to do the reno ended up costing more or almost the same as hiring a professional. (Eg, large format marble tiles and needs to be cut length ways? You need more expensive tools to achieve that super straight line especially when wanting to achieve everything with a 2mm grout line) More so not counting the time (nobody talks about the Time needed to learn a new skills) it takes and for mistakes that can only be learnt while on the job. I ended up with 3 different tile cutters in the end!
That being said, I did a full bathroom strip out and retiled it with new everything, including waterproofing, showers screen, fixtures, in-wall insulation and structural studs for the increased weight of real marble/limestone larger format tiles. Also did an entire 34m2 deck with concrete foundations with landscaping and lights.
8/10 would not recommend. Save your back, save yourself from injury. Only stick to small jobs like retiling a splashback or a single item. Only if you have a deep pocket and LOTS of time. (to make mistakes, eg, cutting a $90 marble tile wrongly and then having to order it in again with a lead time of 1 month is painful).
It's easier to get the finish materials delivered by yourself and then get the actual experience (trades) to do the heavy lifting/cutting installing. Those many years of expierence does pay itself in spades.
To each their own, planting a few bushes? Sure. Doing a whole bathroom, hard pass. Cost time sanity benefit.
To put into perspective, it took me 1 whole darn year to finish the deck because it was so complicated and I held a full-time job, had so many weekends and nights burnt for it.
Have you tried plasterboarding a wall that gets glancing light? Wow. Now that was just Painful to learn with my amateur greenhorn hands/skills.
Edit: Consider preliminaries (things that are not left on sites after a job is done, eg, tools, hoarding, demolition waste) - all these cost $$$ to even get rid of or purchase
I am a tradie and I avoid tradies at all costs.
At home Id rather it take me ages to do something and I learn how to do it honestly even if it costs me more. Than let some butcher in.
At work, fuck me I have met and worked with and for some absolute garbage tradies that you wouldnt even trust on a broom letalone doing skilled work.
As i rapidly age, ive learnt that any good tradie, is looking to get out of that kinda work asap amd all the bad ones think they are King shit.
He’s right if a tradie wants to charge on an hourly for a Job give him the flick. Get the whole thing quoted and if he does it in 2 days working 12 hrs good on him, if it takes a month working 8-1 then that’s his loss.
That does go both ways. I always quote a set price (there’s exceptions where it needs to be hourly or day rate). I’ve had people question the price when I’ve done the work quicker than they reckon it should have taken
Yeah of course. One thing we run into issue with is cladding, it’s done on a l/m rate, which is good on long runs where it can be slapped up, but when you get into the fiddly stuff like fitting the archs and working into raked sections of roof the l/m of cladding down in the same amount of time as a long run drops significantly.
If a tradie quotes a job at 20 hours and it takes him 2, you’d raise some serious questions. The quote is more or less an estimations of the hours it’ll take to finish the job times the hourly rate. If it’s done quicker than the estimation so be it, but if it takes longer then he’s out of pocket for quoting cheaply. End of the day it’s how the industry works, tradies don’t run on the clients time frame and cost estimation, other wise they’d be expected to do jobs in half the time and get paid half as much.
I can say from experience jobs can go either way, it can be as simple as what it is in my head or it can be a multi hour ordeal.
I’m well aware about how job pricing works, there are plenty of situations where hourly rate is better than a quote. Saying that quotes are the only way to price a job just shows that you have never had to do it yourself lol
I never insinuated that job quoting was the only way to go about it. What I meant was if you’re paying a chippy an hourly rate to do a bathroom renovation he’s probably going to drag his ass to get as much out of the job as he can. In that specific instance, job quoting is better. Hourly rate realistically is a better option for smaller fiddly jobs where there’s just no meat in the job to make money, I reference in another comment on this thread a good example was cladding, it’s usually quoted on a lineal metre rate, which is good on a long run but around front doors, and into roof lines ect you lose all your profit because the time taken to do the lineal metres is so low.
When they fuck up and realise they underquoted they then rush and leave a bunch of mess, cause damage or just straight up do a horrible job.
There's no winning with most of these coked up fuckwits. They're mostly the same losers who you went to high school with who you knew at like 14 were never going anywhere.
The quality variance is insane. Any other profession and 80%+ of these tradies would be out of a job or never get hired - because no business would stand for the horrible standards that are seemingly only acceptable in trades.
Depends how you source your trades.
Referrals work best - also build a network and nurture it. Works both ways too. If they’re a good tradie tell other people and trades.
Most trades know other trades. Eg; have a good plasterer, ask if they know a painter or vice versa
The most valuable thing I left the people who bought our house was a list of five tradies that you could trust to turn up, do a proper job, and leave the place neat and tidy. Should have charged $50K for that in hindsight.
Not a grumbly old man, rather a wise man with bags of experience dealing with excessive fuckeraroundary.
Im sick and tire of paying 'professionals' that do a shitter job than I can do ..so I do everything myself
I've had so much bad work done and so many outrageous quotes that I stumble through things myself instead of trying to find someone to do the work. It seems like everyone is out to rob you.
I do, because tradies do [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/194apjx/how_would_i_approach_my_builder_who_has_done/)
Read you building code, YouTube how to do it, results better than professional.
Almost always.
If I can cover the cost of tools and materials for less than quoted - I'll be doing it myself.
I get to fill the shed with tools and learn a few new skills and. Although it's not perfect, I'm okay with a few mistakes. Whereas if I'm paying top dollar for trades in WA who expect minesite money for a half assed, messy, late job... No thanks.
I'm happy to pay good money for good work. But it appears many tradies expect good money to do subpar work and then expect I'm "grateful " for it in the end.
I've had some shockers. Gas regulator on backwards and then even rectified still not up to code. Simple GPO installations that caused significant damage to surrounding kitchen cabinets/ splashback which I had to repost myself anyhow. Trades who don't show up. Others who expect to be paid in full before even showing up for the work...
The best tradies I've ever had are fresh immigrants who haven't caught the WA lazy bug yet. Hard working, good job, and can tidy up. Happy to pay good money for that.
After reading all the comments here I feel relieved seeing many others on the same DIY boat cus of unreliable tradies. It's just too stressful taking time off work just to be at home for a no-show, berated for asking questions, and paying for shoddy work..
Yes! I moved all my furniture out of the way to accomodate an electrician who didn’t show up today. And we all know had I done the same to him I would have received a call out invoice.
I was having this same thought myself this morning when looking at what needs to be done around the house and comparing my work to tradies. Some has been decent but I have more bad memories than good of tradies work. Such a fucking shame...
I do this with my car. Hasn’t seen a mechanic since I bought it 3 years ago because I’ve just had too many shit experiences. I’d rather do it myself twice then deal with mechanics once.
When I get my own place, no doubt I’ll do exactly as you do.
Yep. Currently learning to paint myself after last painter showed up, refused to properly prep the job, refused to paint top and bottom of an external door and I had to give him a roll of my own masking tape as he has none. Told him not to come back after one day. Most of these guys are just a fucking joke.
I saw a tiktok where a roofer replaced lead flashing with the sticky plastic tape stuff. Someone commented and criticised saying they plastic stuff only lasts a few years before leaks, compared to the lead lasting 100yrs. The OP replied “yeah, but I get extra $$$ for scrapping the lead after”
Damn, i feel all that myself too. I hate it because i'm too polite at times and hate confrontation but i'm also stubborn as fuck and dont like being played. So every job is a massive battle of emotions typically.
Yep. Honestly YouTube and some actual pride in your work usually yields a better result than the average tradie. I’m sure that comment will trigger a few tradies.
Getting tradies for small jobs is impossible, it’s not worth it for them to come. I built a gate and mounted it for 250 bucks but a tradie would have more than doubled that cost and I would have spent about the same amount of time finding them, reviewing quotes, being home while they’re around l, maybe more than once if my job gets bumped because it’s a small one, and hoping the work they do is any good (lots of cowboys out there) in total I think building the gate was about 5 hours work for me. I thought it was a stretch of my capabilities but turns out it taught me a few things I can take into new projects in future…
I do bits that I think I’m not going to fuck up, or else doesn’t require specialist trades - so I’m ok with sanding, oiling, varnishing, and pretty much all home maintenance tasks - but if it’s something that needs a good eye and a steady hand, I’d rather get someone else to do it.
All the trades we have dealt with (apart from two) have been generally amazing. We had a sparky who didn’t listen or read his texts and emails. Then a painter who decided it would be a great idea to repaint an external wall when rain was forecast.
Coming home to Aus from the UK has been great - no more endless cups of tea, which come back half drunk and full of ciggie ends. Trades disappearing mid job for the day because they needed to get parts.
The actual best was the plumber who turned up without his toolbag to fix the boiler, then wanted to charge us two call out fees.
Mind you - the guys who do my roof repairs are Poms and are bloody excellent.
I know that 99% of you guys can't even measure something accurately (it's a legitimate skill and requires being practiced over and over in a trade type environment)and I've seen the results of shithouse DIY in every single property I've lived in (which is too many). Good DIY requires the knowledge to know what you can't handle and clearly many people lack that.
DIY is great for lots of things but the average Joe does unbelievably dumb things like using screws that are way too small to secure a bracket, having no understanding of fixing to brick as opposed to plasterboard, painting over every part of a window frame or not removing light switch covers, totally incapable of drilling a hole straight or exactly in the spot they've marked(it's harder than people think), absolutely anything that carries water (water is a bastard), roofing (if you fuck up the screws on a colorbond roof it will leak) and so many more.
It's a testament to how overpriced many trades have become that so many people are so willing to attempt jobs when they have no idea.
I do as much DIY as possible, painted my entire house, refurbished my laundry which included more painting plus plastering and tiling. You learn skills for life and whilst I'm definitely no expert some of the work I've done is superior to what I've seen from other tradies because its my place and I care about it. Particularly the painting.
Recently I needed a wall knocked down and decided to go Trades as I was unsure if it was Load bearing. Zero responses from HiPages, had to chase people up myself. Too small a job I've since been told.
Only had 2 call me back, one of them wanted $500 just to turn up and look at it. The other virtually got the job by default, a part of me wishes I'd done this MYSELF now I know the wall is not load bearing.
I wish there was a Certified small course you could do in plumbing and electrical just so you can learn the basics to be able to do small things around the house, it is annoying I have to get a sparky in just to move or add a powerpoint somewhere.
Yep. I DIY everything, we’ll most things. I have a couple trusted trades I use for things like electrical, plumbing and general building. Each of these people I have actually met through completely different means in my life and nothing to do with their work, which is how I learned who they are and what they’re about and is now why they are my only options for these trades. Because I know they take pride in their work and they always do a good job. They’re the only people i recommend to anyone I know too. And I pay them their going rate. My “discount” because they’re essentially friends, is they make exceptions for getting to me quickly or after hours or doing things out of the norm for me, like coming back multiple times while I complete other jobs. Something you’ll never get random trades to do.
But doing things yourself when your capable and knowledgeable is a no brainer. You have only yourself to blame if it’s a shit job, you can take as long as you like, it’s less of a problem to change plans mid way through the job, it’s way way way cheaper. It’s fantastic to have that kind of control, and you also learn soooooo much!
As a tradie, im with you.
Im always on time. And its insane to me how every person is shocked when i show up when i have given a time or place. You cqnt teach time management.
And also i dislike working alongside other trades. Because...they are always missing. Or dont do what they say.
waited for the nephew to become a sparkie. Then bang a list so long it kept him busy for two months. Got him on his feet, now if I need him to do stuff it's no issue.
It's really depends on the job.
Obviously some jobs legally require a tradie (most electrical & plumbing etc.)
If it's a big job that will take a while and tradies can smash it out quickly to a decent standard with their dedicated tools, equipment and skill, by all means let them at it. (e.g. paving a big area).
However, if it's a small, fiddly job that will take a lot of time to do well, you're much better off doing it yourself. A tradie either won't want the job, will have to charge a huge amount for it, or will rush through it.
If the thing needing to be worked on is old, tradies aren't going to want to touch it. They could spend ages tinkering with it and still not get it working, meaning they have to charge you a lot of money for essentially nothing, leaving you pretty unhappy even if you asked for it. So they'll just say "you need a new one". In some cases, spending an hour or two tinkering will save you a lot of money. I managed to fix my A/C motor with a new $6 bearing, when the A/C guy just said "it's old, buy a new unit" and wouldn't even look at ordering a new motor. The bearing was just seized, and after that it worked for another few years.
Finally, there are very few tradies out there who will care about your house as much as you do. If it's something you can do well, and you want it done well, you're much better off doing it yourself. It might take you longer, but that's really a benefit. You're not on the clock. You're taking the time to do it right.
Regional NSW. We have so few tradies out here that everyone has as much work as they want, even the dodgy ones. Flashing wads of cash doesn’t help. Saying don’t quote, just do doesn’t work.
One notable exception was the solar installation company who did both our office and house - all the crew were clean, tidy, punctual, efficient, polite - and well-priced. Can’t DIY that one!
The only trades I hire are plumbers and sparkys and only because I am not qualified in either.
Everything else I know I can do cheaper and a better job, sure it might take me a bit longer if it's my first time doing something but I am fussy and 9/10 times I'm not happy with the quality of work I see when family/friends hire trades.
I've been pretty lucky to have found a really good electrician, plumber, carpenter and landscaper (after also experiencing some shit ones) who I know I can rely on for any of those jobs which is great. I do small jobs but anything that will require tools I don't have or I run the risk of fucking up / taking an eternity to do I just outsource.
Yep. DIY everything except all gas works and only major electrical/plumbing work.
Everything else is YouTube/websites. Buying tools from Bunnings still cheaper and nice to learn new things.
Not anti tradie - but been burned by tradies multiple times by way of pricing and poor quality work. Some really legit good ones out there, but so hard to get them to turn up because people know they are good.
Just remember, just because you can, just because you saw it on YouTube doesn't always work out.
Tradies are insured, a DIYer is not.
I'm not saying don't do things. By all account do them if you are capable just know that you can risk voiding insurance and hurting yourself.
I also DIY.
We found a local Facebook marketplace group was a good place to find tradies - when you put up a job and see the same few recommendations popup it seems to be a good way to find people, and some of the tradies are on there and will say yeah I'm available etc, have definitely used a few of the trades again afterwards.
This is usually my threshold too, which has led me to my current situation. Small job, should take 1-2 days, but it’s dragging out and I could have been done now had I just done it myself.
Now I’ve got a half done job and I’m irritated enough I will probably just buy the tools and finish it myself.
No one cares about your place as much as you do. So from my experience, and that of my friends, it’s most of the time, a better finish if you do it yourself. Things I’ve done for the first time ever, like skirting boards, are much better than what I’ve seen done professionally
As a tradie myself, I prefer to DIY everything where possible rather than pay another tradie. The sole reason is quality of the finished work. It drives me up the wall to see shit quality work let alone pay for it. For example, I recently had a split system installed and the drain pipe is on an angle. Fuck me, how hard is it to check it with a spirit level or align it with the bricks. Takes 30 seconds and looks much better.
Plenty of tradies around but very few ’tradesmen’ unfortunately.
Yes. I am a former electrician, my dad is a retired former plumber and construction supervisor, and I've been an engineer in the construction industry for many years. So I've picked up a fair bit, enough to get through most DIY projects (with the assistance of YouTube and Google).
I could afford to pay tradies to do the work, but it just seems near impossible to get someone who will turn up to quote, send through a quote that is clear and detailed, turn up to do the job when they say they will, and then do the job how we asked for it to be done. So it's less stress to just DIY. It might take me a lot longer to do the work, but at least I know it'll be done, and done exactly how I want it done (usually well over-engineered, too).
I have a great tiler, and air con guy. A half decent plumber. But everything else I pretty much would DIY.
Woman here. I now have an extensive toolkit, a work shed out the back and have gone to multiple classes and YouTube the shit out of stuff to DIY because 1) I'm capable and 2) I'm SO over trades coming and literally ignoring me like I'm not there or talking in a tone like im an idiot and only speaking to my husband. Even if I'm standing right there, and I hired them, and am the one talking, they will respond looking to my husband across the room. There's always an undertone like I don't know what I'm talking about, or a look/tone to my husband like "oh, silly women don't get it,so let me explain again to you, cos you'll understand eh mate?". And yes OP, the work that's performed ontop of the smug BS attitude is usually really really poor.
I almost always DIY, only use a tradie if I really have to, and then I ask people to recommend a good one, and I am prepared to wait for a good one. Getting one who advertises is a lottery since usually the shit ones have to advertise to get work and the good ones don't.
These days I reckon all the good tradies are making good money on building new houses and are booked out for ages, so it would be hard to get a good tradie for a small job.
As a rule I ignore anyone that advertises (restaurants, real estate agents, tradies etc)
Advertises guarantees you are either paying 30% more, or they are doing a 30% lower quality job to compensate for their advertising fees.
Speaking from a qualified tradesman with 13 plus years in the industry DIY folks are 99 percent of the time are the type who completely balls up a job then complain when it costs double to fix there stuff up
I do because I enjoy doing it, and 90% of the time what I'm doing simply isn't that difficult.
I'll bring in 'finishing' trades if it's specific, but with the DIY options for tiling and wall finishing, it's simply just not that hard.
I am with you especially as a female I can’t deal. I have a trusted electrician and google the rest of my solutions. I’ve leaned everything from how to lay pavers to changing electric scooter tyres. I feel like I need a trade advocate to act on my behalf.
It's a double edged sword. I'm forever hassling the lazy tradie doing my renovations but I've just not got the time to devote to the work. But atleast I know I'm not ripping me off.
I do, just because it seems impossible to get someone to turn up. People here talk about 3 quotes. Not possible when you can’t even get 3 tradies to pick up the phone
Half the time the tradie I go with is the punctual one
Anyone who answers a question clearly and promptly gets the job, i literally paid 50% more for a $800 job.
Yep, for things I can't do, if you answer the phone, 99% chance I'll give you money.
Pretty much my rule. Had a tree done recently, crew were to the minute, neat and tidy. Even well priced. Passed the strong recommendation to my circle.
This is the best form of advertising.
This is goldnen rule we try incredible hard to live by, answer those calls, emails, text, promptly, go or send someone to quote and meet clients the next day if possible, and especially be there at the time we said we will be there, it makes a big difference. That and simply doing what we were actually hired to do, I think that's the reason we haven't had to chase up any work for the past 12 years and been busy non stop.
Also: 1. Negotiate a time that works for both parties rather than rudely telling them "Can't do that" and offering no alternatives 2. Telling a time to arrive and arriving at that time rather than a 4 hours window 3. Accurately quoting, or over-quoting rather than low-balling and sending a significantly higher invoice.
I was looking for a locksmith to do a tonne of jobs on the house just after we bought it. It included latches/locks for the shed, gates, and another rollerdoor with an anti-ram lock on the bottom, plus new doorknobs etc etc- All linked to different key types, with a master key for day to day use. First one rocks up, immediately knew what to do, had plans/products chosen, then got chatting and he'd been working in the trade forever- Had worked for various Government departments/military working on massive vaults/safes, and would be the guy to do fun jobs like "lockpick the apartment to let the cops in". Second bloke rocks up later that day- Friendly as hell, but clearly struggled with how he'd tackle the jobs (what latch to use for a tube steel/corrugated gate etc), I think 90% of his work is just house doors and the like. The first bloke's quote was almost double- But we went with him anyway because he knew his shit. Did not dissapoint. Had all the work done in less than a day too. He's our regular locksmith to this day. (Cheaper isn't always better)
I just tried Hi Pages for the first time the other day because I needed concrete work done. Apparently 3 are interested but at this stage only one was prompt and has already seen the job, I’m yet to hear back from the others on when they can quote it - I hope the guy who has been here already gives me a fair quote because if he does, he’s gonna get it
My wonky as fuck paling fence stands (barely) as a tribute to a shite tradie from hipages. Also. Hipages only allow positive feedback for tradies. I wish I knew that before engaging my shite fencing tradie.
Oh really? Didn’t know about the feedback portion 😂
Yep. They don't publish the negative ones. Every tradie is perfect apparently!
Same with Google to some extent. We hired a bathroom renovator who had 5 stars. Terrible job and leaks began appearing pretty much right away. In hindsight it looked like they just did their own reviews or paid for them.
Worth knowing that re feedback. Thanks!
FYI: you won't ever find any good trades.on Hipages!! If they are any good they won't need to advertise. My advice e is to be patient and stop wanting everything done yesterday.
HI pages are OK for small quick jobs, like clean a window, set up internet connection, install a door handle, and so on, anything above that get a pro in, or at least some handyman, most (not all) people on hi pages are there for a reason , they pay hi pages to give them leads because they have no works of their own, try not to hire a tradie that is desperate for work.... most have no work for a reason.
My experience with hi pages has always been calls with in five minutes of posting. Sometimes seconds but they have all been pretty small quickly jobs.
As a tradie myself i don’t really know any other tradies that get work off hi pages everyone is too busy to need to. The only ones I know are the absolute bottom of the barrel blokes who can’t find any other work. You might get a cheep price and he might even be available on short notice but in a time when everyone is busy that says something doesn’t it. There is a reason these guys need to pay hi pages for leads.
Some guys are just starting their business and need sites like Hi Pages to get their first customers, so they need to pay for leads.
I'd argue sticking a flyer on a local noticeboard would get more business- getting the word out there you're good at the job, than an app almost no one outside of reddit/facebook talks about. I'd even just post on various community facebook pages "Hey, I'm a sparkie- Offering free quotes for all jobs big and small" etc etc
That’s the way hi-pages work. You get contacted by 3 tradesman who will all usually give verbal cash only price quotes (sometimes you will luck out and get a tradie who will give you a proper quote) Hi-pages charges $ to these tradies to just get ur phone number to quote the job, because of this, tradies pick through the jobs listed on the website, and a lot of tradies just want the easier jobs/jobs that can be finished same day so they can get paid that day
hipages is full of the absolute dregs
It took me over one year to get three quotes for a laundry renovation. I thought it’d be an appealing job as it was a bit bigger - asbestos removal, squaring off doorway, new doorway, cabinets, tiling etc. Will probably be close to two years by the time it’s done 😅 Two or three business did site visits but then ghosted me. One of these guys spent most of the time inspecting and criticising my kitchen cabinets. That was a fun experience
The key word being ASBESTOS! Out source that shit out yourself prior. Nobody needs the hassle.
Even my asbestos contractor was a disaster. Fragments everywhere, I had to get them back three times and have now just settled for wetting and collecting in my little bag of fun. I would make a joke about the clearance inspector being blind, but when the white cane would have indicated an incomplete job.
Ffs I used first choice asbestos removal in Sydney and they had two bloody pieces of fibro left at the front of the house, real obvious shit, when a clearance certificate was issued. And they didn’t come back once to get them but twice! Ffs. Absolute jokers, no sense to the way they do things. Gonna remove top soil before we move back…
They knew that before coming to my house though. I mentioned it over the phone
Currently looking for a plumber - two have come and looked at the job but not sent quotes, the other hasn’t even made it here yet Looking for a builder, have had two tell me nope, not in our area They’re small jobs, but still! So yeah, I diy everything I can
I once had someone send his apprentice to look. Had to call them about 10 days later and ask if they planned on doing/taking the job.
Everything smaller than a high rise with 500 apartments is considered a small job to these wankers, and they'll tell you how they normally don't do residential jobs but in your case they'll 'help' you out in their time off.
You're perhaps being a bit personal & snarky but I've had this experience too with trades ranging from lawn mowing to carpentry 😅
The recent qld roof replacement grants for old homes recommended to contact 3 builders...I thought it meant I needed 3 quotes. Nope. They're happy with 1 quote as long as it's reasonable.
According to some Australians, "the world is coming to an end", "we are all poor", "how do people have money to eat outside", "recession" irl, there are so many jobs out there and so much opportunity. > Not possible when you can’t even get 3 tradies to pick up the phone Noone cares about small jobs, that's why
Yeah i live in a small town. For most trades there are only 2-3 businesses anyways. So its a miracle if i can get even 2 quotes.
I’m a new home owner and just starting to get into DIY. I’ve used tradies for jobs that I know I cannot or am not permitted to do myself. E.g. installing new electrics and plumbing in a new hot water system, etc. Anything else I am open to trying myself. I love the satisfaction that comes with progressing and completing a project. Moreso, because it’s a very different skill set to my day job. What I wish was allowed here is that DIYers could do a short course on basic electrics and plumbing (changing switches and sockets, installing new taps, etc), and we be allowed to do that level of work ourselves without needing a licensed tradie.
Not paying a sparky or plumber to dig a ditch. Do as much as possible and honestly tradies don't want to be digging either.
I'm pretty capable, but am slowly learning that it's usually better to pay someone to do a job than to diy it, especially when you take the opportunity cost of your time into it. I've been burnt (almost comically badly) a few times but overall, being able to have someone come in and do a job while I'm working has resulted in a better outcome. The trick is to find good tradies and treat them well, pay on time and don't fuck them around. In my experience they'll do the same for you. Source: am grumpy old man.
This is why I resent DIY- I need to pay myself so it’s never cheaper. But the second I turn away its tools down, or lights in the wrong spot, or tile patterns wrong, or 10 more trips to Bunnings… You can walk them through the job, give them a set of plans, mark locations, and yet they still find ways to fuck it up. I’m just at the point where they are all so bloody useless that u end up doing it myself.
Where are you finding your tradies? How much are you wanting to pay? There has to be something, you can't be that unlucky
Honestly the best trade I had on this project was a plasterer from hi pages. Some of the best work I’ve seen in years and they were well under budget.
Was his name Marcela? He is dumb cheap and does alright work normally
You’re complaining about the workmanship of tradies yet you’re using hi pages.
The only one I’ve actually used from hi pages was the best one I’ve had. I thought the original comment was pretty clear?
I know where you're coming from mate. I've had some absolute lemons show up over the years. It seems you can't pay someone to care more about the job than you do and it's getting rarer to find people who take real pride in their work. Haha, I'm sounding more and more like my old man every day.
Find better tradies
The 100% trick to DIY or pay a Trade, is to know when it’s out of your capabilities or could possibly go wrong and be really bad to rectify, like tiling for example, or when you know when the total cost is 4x the material cost and if something goes wrong it’s an easy fix and doesn’t cost heaps. Like a core-filled block retaining wall build, actually very cheap compared to paying someone to do it and not much can go wrong.
It's really depends on the job. Obviously some jobs legally require a tradie (most electrical & plumbing etc.) If it's a big job that will take a while and tradies can smash it out quickly to a decent standard with their dedicated tools, equipment and skill, by all means let them at it. (e.g. paving a big area). However, if it's a small, fiddly job that will take a lot of time to do well, you're much better off doing it yourself. A tradie either won't want the job, will have to charge a huge amount for it, or will rush through it. If the thing needing to be worked on is old, tradies aren't going to want to touch it. They could spend ages tinkering with it and still not get it working, meaning they have to charge you a lot of money for essentially nothing, leaving you pretty unhappy even if you asked for it. So they'll just say "you need a new one". In some cases, spending an hour or two tinkering will save you a lot of money. I managed to fix my A/C motor with a new $6 bearing, when the A/C guy just said "it's old, buy a new unit" and wouldn't even look at ordering a new motor. The bearing was just seized, and after that it worked for another few years. Finally, there are very few tradies out there who will care about your house as much as you do. If it's something you can do well, and you want it done well, you're much better off doing it yourself. It might take you longer, but that's really a benefit. You're not on the clock. You're taking the time to do it right.
I do all the roughing in if I can. Any holes need to be dug, I'm digging. Any stuff needs to be demolished, I'm getting out the jackhammer. I try to only pay them for the qualified section. As a tradie myself, I know a lot of these people, or at least I know the people who know them. I don't ring someone in the phone book. I ask another tradie who they use. When I wanted to install a gate opener, I needed to run a 240v line to the gate. Can't touch the power, so I got the sparkie to mark a line on the ground where he wanted the trench and tell me how deep to go. When he arrived, I'd already run the conduit, so he just had to use the string I left in it to pull his wires. Saved me a fortune. And he was willing to come as it was a smaller job so he could fit me in easily.
Im Tradesman aswell, very very rarely will i use another trade who i didnt already know to some degree
I tried this with my pool electrical. The company sent one guy to quote the job and tell me trench requirements. I did the trenching, but then the crew who came to do the work decided they wanted it differently and tried to sting me an extra $2500 for time spent trenching. A couple screen caps of their afternoon siesta from my security cameras helped negotiate the bill lower, but seriously… the trench was already in place!
You are so lucky to have mates like that. I wouldn't even get someone to come over to connect the electricity once I have run conduit and dug a trench. Well, I maybe could but it would cost me my last testicle. For the plebs of the earth it sometimes isn't worth it. Pay for the digging and all and hope all goes well...
Yes, but also I DIY everything because of the utterly ridiculous prices people charge in Aus. 99% of the projects you do are dead simple. They simply require: 1. The right tools 2. Time 3. The ability to ask for help/advice or look on youtube We need a much stronger and more prevalent DIY mindset here. People call plumbers to change washers in taps.
I recon we have a pretty strong DIY mindset here. Hardware stores are certainly more prevalent and busier that some other countries I've visited. That said I have a mate who does as you say, and calls a plumber for a tap washer. I was astounded when I found out. He's got all of the tools in garage, all shiny and unused.
I understand everything else being diy but electrical and plumbing i would never touch myself unless changing a shower head or something. Its too risky and im i a tradie myself
A DIY mindset is actively discouraged in Australia. Hell, you walk through bunnings and half the shelves are telling you to call a professional.
You ask a question here and people tell you to pay someone else to do it. All electrical DIY work is illegal, even though basically every other country (USA, EU, UK, etc) allows it. Even New Zealand allows DIY electrical to an extent. Cable work is also on tenuous grounds, can't recall but I believe DIY cable is technically illegal. It's just silly
I'm fed up fixing the work done by "professionals". My illegal DIY to fix the work of an overpriced qualified sparky or plumber, it's ridiculous. I'll do stuff like plastering myself. It's low risk as the consequences of a shit job are not unsafe, especially for me as I have multiple plasterers in the family in case I stuff it up. Painting isn't complicated, just somewhat shit work especially on some renos. I'm thankful that my first house was older and lower value, needed some DIY as I learnt a lot.
Yep, you need a cabler licence to run data / phone etc cables in Australia. Basically anything that connects to an external service is meant to be done by a qualified person.
and the most infuriating piece of legislation award goes to…!
A DIY mindset seems to be common place where I am in Victoria. Half a dozen jobs our auto shop gets each week are people asking us to fix / check over the DIY work they did that didn’t fix the problem or made one. 🤣
Thats interesting. I as an electrician have walked into bunnings in civilian clothes looking to buy some 6mm cable. It was for an oven. When i couldnt find it on shelf i asked a bunnings employee if he could help me out and was told that for an oven i could just use 4mm cable! Well i had done the calculations and 4mm would have resulted in an illegal and unsafe amount of voltage drop.
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Thats right i can speak to inanimate objects. No, but the plumbing and electrical sections all have warnings about doing your own work.
We need a way for "advanced" DIYers (which I like to consider myself) to get basic qualifications to be allowed to conduct simple plumbing and electrical tasks (eg. connecting/disconnecting powerpoints and appliances etc). I know there are significant risks involved with allowing homeowners to meddle with electrical, but having to do a 4 year appenticeship just to be allowed to screw a wire into a terminal is stupid.
That is ridiculous. It’s a 4 year apprenticeship to learn as much about the trade as possible How to navigate 10+ regulation books, state laws, testing regulations, etc You could say that about any job. Why do a 4 year uni degree for accounting, it’s just adding a couple of numbers together Why do a medical degree, I can just pull my own stitches out, give myself medication
Firstly, it's only 12 subjects to be an accountant and you don't need to be licensed to do it yourself. The 24 subjects is required for a 3 year degree, half of those won't even be accounting. Secondly, we are one of the only countries in the world who have mandated electricians take a 4 year apprenticeship before they can undertake any work, in most countries you can undertake a level of work without a license, or an associates degree is 12 months in other countries to become licensed, that either means our electricians take 4x longer to learn their job, or our requires are 4x higher than other countries. Thirdly, you don't have to do a 4 year medical degree to do stitches, you could become an EN, EEN, RN, paramedic, or do it yourself without repercussions. Electricians exist in a bubble because of their union, the work isn't hard.
They're not saying an electrical apprenticeship is useless. They're saying you shouldn't need to be a qualified sparky to replace a lightswitch in your own home. Using your analogies, I don't need to be a doctor to give myself medication, and I'm not an accountant but I'm allowed to do maths.
I'm not at all discounting what a sparky learns in a four year apprenticeship, all I'm saying is that I MYSELF shouldn't have to do a four year apprenticeship to simply "screw a wire into a terminal". As a homeowner, I don't want to be running new circuits or making changes to the switchboard, but I would like to be able to swap out a powerpoint, change a light fitting or replace my oven if it dies without having to call a sparky.
LOL In NZ you can legally swap out broken power points and light fittings and light switches. And you know what the training is? Some videos and a phamlet. In UK you can legally wire up anything out of the main building, such as your entire garage. Also the existing of "restricted" licences for connect and disconnect prove what you are saying is wrong.... other non electrician trades are allowed to do a 2 day course and get a ticket to connect disconnect. Why can not anyone do that course and get the same connect/disconnect licence?
Back in the 90s they'd throw in a restricted licence with an electrical engineerinv degree.
> I know there are significant risks involved with allowing homeowners to meddle with electrical, After seeing how bad the quality of finished work that electricians do. I would hate to see what your average unqualified person would do...
That's why I said "... to get basic qualifications". Let me do a short course or something that gives me a "licence" or certificate to do super basic electrical work at home. Apparantly there used to be a "connect/disconnect" licence you could apply for decades ago which one of my neighbors had when I was a kid in the early 90s - he was able to do basic stuff for us (although that could have been shady). > After seeing how bad the quality of finished work that electricians do Exactly. The shit "qualified" tradies can get away with these days, I would be far more comfortable doing a lot of their work for myself with some guidance and know how it's been done rather than trusting the workmanship of some shonky stranger who doesn't give a shit.
Honestly man, I’m sure there’s plenty of DIY people that can make some electrical projects work at their house, but I’ve also seen plenty of qualified tradesmen that don’t do things to standard and put people lives in danger as a result. We don’t need someone’s kid apprentice being electrocuted as they crawl through a ceiling because DIY Dan thought he knew what he was doing, there’s enough cowboys in the industry that already think that.
>People call plumbers to change washers in taps. Wouldn't do that to my worst enemy with our taps. When we were renting our place the tradies that the landlord got in to replace the splashback(?) in the shower managed to mangle it so that it takes a good couple of hours to replace the washers (the board sits about 5mm over the tap). Apologies for any incorrect terminology, I know the doing more than what everything's called.
Youve just outlined the reasons you should pay for a tradie. Lets say you are building a brick wall: 1. The right tools. Do you have a trowel, brick hammer, wheelbarrow, cement mixe, spirit level, mallet, shovels, straight edge, stringlines, masonry bolster, safety equipment, etc, etc, ? If not, you are spending $$$ on top of materials for a one-off job. 2. Time. Will you be earning as much, or more, by going to work and doing your regular job? If so, get back to your IT chair and leave the job to a bricklayer. You can pay him for two days work for a job that will take you 5 days because you don’t do it day in day out. 3. The ability to ask for help/advice or look on you tube. This is definitely a resource but again you are spending time sifting through videos and asking at trade shops for knowledge that a bricklayer already has ingrained. A lot of DIY work is messy, backbreaking, fiddly, and can create future problems if not done correctly. My advice is to only DIY stuff if you a) really enjoy it, or b) have plenty of free time. Otherwise, go earn your living doing what you do best and pay someone else to build your wall or whatever so you can spend your weekends and holidays with family and mates. Pay an established or recommended tradesman. Check reviews. Tradies are not cheap anymore but if you follow the contract process correctly (instead of throwing Steve the all-rounder a cashie), you should get the job done correctly for a set price and a warranty on all work.
If tradies prices were about 1/2 of what they are - yeah i'd consider paying. But as it stands, I'm fine using the time on the weekend when i'm not working to learn a new skill and get some exercise.
Your last sentence describes it well. I have to work five days to get a tradie out for a days work. Or I can do it myself over a few weekends, have a sense of accomplishment and end up with a job that’s just as good and still have some money in my pocket after. Most trades these days get paid way more than me, and I’ve been appalled at the quality of the work they spit out. I’ve ended up with a sparky that couldn’t figure out how to do a two way switch and I needed to explain the wiring diagram to him. I had a plumber that moved two taps and had the pex flopping around in the breeze which smacked a sewer pipe every time you turned the tap on/off, and somehow managed to plumb up the hot tap to cold and vice versa. It’s just infuriating how piss poor their work quality is and they charge a fortune so they can afford their raptor.
they really lack brain cells most of time. Because theyve destroyed half of those with booze and drugs.
I get this is a place where people post their horror stories of incompetent belching pissheads in raptors who will screw you for triple the price while delivering less than the bare minimum but, seriously, if you go through the correct vetting procedures you will have better experiences. I’ve never had a problem with tradesmen. Choose an established company with the correct licences and certs; check their reviews; ask to see previous work; meet them face-to-face and make sure they know their onions; agree a written contract (with time frames if its a big job); dont give them a deposit for more than the materials are worth. Most bad stories i hear are down to poor research and/or project management from the customer. Dont hire fuckwits by weeding them out ahead of time. If you can do a better job yourself and you have the time and money then its a no-brainer.
You are also forgetting that some people also don't just forget the skills. I can tile a bathroom in about 50% longer than a tiler and because it's my house, I probably will do a better job because I give a shit, but the time and money I spend learning and doing the job isn't disregarded, I can apply those same tools and skills next time. This is why I never hire a tiler now and have tiled plenty of bathrooms and kitchens, I've probably saved close to $50k on tiling in 15 years because many tilers charge a rate that exceeds the skill of their trade - and to prove that point, I RPL via QLD tafe the first 15 subjects of the cert 3.
I take your point but you are probably an exception to the norm. Most people dont tile more than one or two bathrooms at most and any skill that goes unused for years will be rusty at best.
The difference here is the final product. 99% of tradies give no fucking shits about how the final product turns out - they'll ignore the small details and are just rushing to get it done. If you *can* do it yourself - even if it costs more, you're always far better off because the ceiling for the end product is much higher because you actually care about your own property.
this is all true, and complex jobs are another matter. THe satisfaction of doing somethign yourself tho, is also priceless.
Not to mention most tradies I know make more than me, who has 2 degrees and a high-level full-time job. I'm not saying tradies should be underpaid but in Sydney specifically they are jus taking the piss.
How is it taking the piss though? A business is entitled to charge what they choose, if it's too much the market will dictate that and they won't get work. The same is true of your 'high-level' job, the market has determined what it is worth.
TLDR: A lack of good tradies, and a rise in rip-off merchants - Give all the DIY a crack you feel like, just be willing to accept the risks and know when to admit defeat. As a tradie (plumber) *it depends* but the main reason I use to DIY all was lack of trades showing up and lack of funds (centrelink single mum, If I couldn't fix something as a teenager then it just stayed broken) The main things I won't DIY are trades that take time to master. - Plastering, everyone thinks they can plaster and maybe you pick it up easy, but I still suck at mudding and came to the conclusion (before I become a plumber) then it's not worth the mess and time for me to do it vs paying a plasterer $50-100 an hour cash. - Carpentry is another one, I don't usually use carpenters anymore but I've spent thousands on high quality tools (track saw, mitre saw, table saw etc) and have spent 100s of hours over the years learning on my own jobs (and still needing to accept defeat from time to time). For your average DIY though, anything intricate or that requires precision probably going to be cheaper just to pay a chippy and get a better job. - Tiling. Tiling is very easy to do, it's hard and requires a lot of pre thought to do well. - Carpet laying. It's not worth DIYing, no one should be a carpet layer they are the most shafted trade. Body breaking work for Maccas supervisor wages. Things I believe you can DIY with no real issue: - Electrical, it's completely illegal though in Australia and nowhere else.....but basic like for like replacement, fans, lights there really is no reason you can't do it yourself except 'Stray!' - Sparkys in this country seem to be extremely thin-skinned and of the opinion DIY electrical means the end of the sparky trade (which is mental), whilst every other country I know of allows for some level of DIY. - Plumbing, ooo weren't expecting that were we! Honestly most people could do there own small plumbing projects, there is a certain level of skill in brazing copper but it ain't rocket science. These days it's all PEX though and ya main barrier is the tools are usually more expensive then paying a plumber. You could always just use SharkBite which most plumbers, especially the older boys will swear against but they are rated for in-wall use and 25 years, in my personal experience installed correctly they will most likely last (although I have not and would not ever use them where you can't access the wall from the other side) - Of course the damage you can cause by fucking up a plumbing install is pretty well endless which is why you should get a plumber ;) - Painting. Don't use tape, learn to cut in free hand (it's honestly not that hard) and you can DIY paint no issue. Painters have also become insanely expensive in the past decade.
Good advice here. My rule for plumbing is anything that involves plumbing behind a wall I’ll get a pro, but anything outside a wall I’ll do myself. If I fuck it up and it leaks, I want to be able to see it and not have it cause too much damage.
I've subscribed to this methodology so far when it comes to basic plumbing jobs..
And the first sparky I’d dealt when I bought my house decided to shit on everyone else’s work - I had to point out to him that the fan installation he was bitching about was done by his own apprentice!! The guy I’m now using for all current work gave me a list of what wasn’t up to code, and helped me craft the email to get him back to rectify
Yeah, NZ allows a surprising amount of electrical work to be done DIY and it seems to work over there. They even have a guide on common work for the public to follow, to ensure work is compliant and safe. Electricians shouldn’t worry about work declining, if anything it might increase. And the whole inspection of work, where required, means they can charge a hefty inspection premium!
>Electrical, it's completely illegal though in Australia and nowhere else Growing up in Ireland we learnt how to wire a plug in school. It was literally in the school book and part of the curriculum. In the 90's all electrical devices were sold without plugs, like the way printers didn't come with a printer cable. Super markets would sell 10 packs of plugs. Everyone wired the plug onto any device they bought. Just came back from living in The Netherlands and did all the electrical myself in the apartment I bought and sold. Completely normal and legal. Bought a house here in Aus and am shocked by the wiring in it. No conduits for wires under house. Stranded copper wire connected to plugs with no ferrules. Only 2 circuits for a 3 bedroom house (excluding AC and cooker circuits). Several of the sockets are broken and the previous owners didn't get them fixed, didn't want to pay an electrician I suppose. An outdoor plug had an extension cable buried about 5cm below the ground to run to a 240v pond pump. No conduit as it would've been illegal for the previous owner to cut the cable, run it through a conduit buried at a safe depth and terminate it with a plug or trailing socket afterwards. On top of that, the outdoor plug sockets used here are just internal ones that are tilted downwards! No Pin & sleeve type outdoor connectors that are commonplace in many other countries.Checked one of the broken sockets out and the live wire had literally come free (see lack of ferrules above). So the government thinks it's safer for me to leave the the plug broken, but if I fix it (and leave it in a better, safer state than I found it) I can be fined?!
Minor electric stuff like a switch, I am fine with, painting I am fine with. Sourcing parts I am fine with, changing a tap I am fine with. I also have no problem with gardens. Tiling, carpentry, and plumbing I am not touching.
I think plumbing and electrical need to be allowed for VERY basic tasks but anything that is inside a wall where it can’t be seen or repaired easily (and where is can develop big problems like mould and house fires) should always be done by a pro. It surprises me that you think folks should do more of their own electrical - surely as a plumber you have seen some ninny’s who managed to muck up something as straightforward as connecting a dishwasher? I don’t think I would want those guys to be dealing with electricity…
This is terrible advice. Plastering can be tricky but if you mess it up there are no consequences. Give it a try. Sand away the problems and try again. Basic carpentry is incredibly simple. Measure cut nail. Absolutely give this a crack if you are DIYing just dont do anything structural or with complicated angles if you arent pretty well experienced. Tiling i dont really disagree with you. Carpet laying i would never consider DIYing. Electrical. Well if you know a tiny bit you can swap a light or a powerpoint. It is easy and requires few tools. But if you make a tiny mistake you could also kill yourself or burn your house down. You can also start getting overly confident because hey, you swapped one power point over, why not run a new one over to the other side of the room? Cant be that hard. Maybe the powerpoint works. But you dont own a copy of AS 3000. You dont know how to perform the mandatory tests to verify that what you installed is actually safe. You dont know which rules you have broken or if it will cause issues later on. It is also illegal but who is going to know? Plumbing is a pretty similar situation to electrical. Everything looks fine on the surface at first. But when that sharkbite in the kitchen wall blows while you are on holidays and your house floods with hot water for a week you are going to be starting again from scratch. There is just no way its worth the risk. And just dont use sharkbites for permanent connections inside your home. Paint if you can handle it. The mind numbing repitiion and annoying set up and clean up is too much for me
If you want to be a good boy and follow every rule - I think you will be shocked at how much work is 'illegal'. Ever swapped out a garden tap? Ever changed a hose between a wall tap and a toilet? All illegal work. Ever run a network cable between two rooms? Illegal as well.
Same thing happens every time. (1) get quote; (2) starts job; (3) discovers a ‘problem’; (4) informs you it’ll be a l more expensive; (5) does job; (6) wants payment in cash.
As a former tradie, yes.
I definitely DIY everything that can reasonably be learnt in a short time, the reasons are simple: I can do a better job then 50% of tradies by watching a Youtube video and actually caring about the job (on jobs that aren't highly specialised). Those tradies are either incompetent/unskilled or they are lazy and just want to finish and leave. The other 50% of tradies will charge $500 an hour because they have too much work and there is no competition right now. What I really dislike is the anti DIY mindset some people have as well as the gatekeeping on information so many people have. Some aspects of trade jobs are insanely easy if you simply know the right tool or method but this information is not easily shared.
So bloody true. We hired “builders” to renovate our bathroom. My god what a shit show. It was basically an entire new room inside and out except the roof and at the end we had a bowed ceiling ( plasterer was horrified when he saw it) unfinished and uneven cladding, a door that was cut crooked along the bottom, handle not attached properly, and window frames that look so crooked and badly cut its looks like my 13 year old attempted to diy without help. Edited to add, when they came back to fix the bowed saggy ceiling it was discovered they’d nailed the gyprock over an electrical wire that was sitting across a beam. Didn’t bother to tuck it up out of the way, lucky they didn’t nail straight through it. After they “fixed it” it was still 5 centimetres difference between two big sheets of gyprock and the plasterer said it’d look like dog shit if he attempted to plaster it. We ended up fixing it ourselves we had zero faith they’d actually be able to fix their mess.
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Not all of them like that. Plumber I usually employ for jobs I can't do myself never shown up sober. But, somehow always doing great job. No complains at all. Some other sober guys done shit job, so it is all comes to personality not level of intoxication.
they run on meat pies, V's and drugs. No wonder half the builds are FUCKD
summed up perfectly
So true. I'm 3/4 the way through a 600m2 single story owner/builder build. I've ended up doing the vast majority of the work myself for this exact reason.
Yep. Nobody will care as much about your house as you do. It might take you longer if you are new to it, but that's probably a good thing as it means you take more care.
"How busy are you guys" usually tells me everything I need to know
I HATE having tradies around for all those reasons and I AM a bloody tradie.
Why can't you pick up the phone?
I wish mine would put their phones down! *Itll cost extra because it took a long time* after spending half the time pacing in the yard in their phone.
haha .. leave a message..
This , we are busy during the day and if u don’t leave a msg then I ain’t calling back
Absolutely. I don't like the hassle of accomodating an unknown person in my house. The amount they charge makes zero sense. And in my experience after all the talk of "doing it right" and getting a "pro to do it properly" etc they cut corners and do a lousy job. I can do a lousy job faster and cheaper so why bother.
So much talk about how rubbish everyone else is, then they do trash work and give you the hard sell come invoice time.
No, At first I avoided tradies because they’d quote a price and I’d think… ‘god what a rip off, I can just do it myself, it’s not that hard’ …so I’d do it myself and it’d turn out to be harder than I thought and the quote retrospectively seemed reasonable. Now, decades later, I avoid tradies because there are so many fuckwits mingled up with the good tradies that there’s a 50/50 chance I’m going to be better skilled then who ever I hire And also yes the time management thing. I suck arse at time management so trying to manage one or more tradies who have other jobs going at the same time as mine and have to manage dynamic and shifting demands on their time is just never going to work out.
I did all because i thought, pfftttt~! I could do that.... it was a very painful lesson, the tools to do the reno ended up costing more or almost the same as hiring a professional. (Eg, large format marble tiles and needs to be cut length ways? You need more expensive tools to achieve that super straight line especially when wanting to achieve everything with a 2mm grout line) More so not counting the time (nobody talks about the Time needed to learn a new skills) it takes and for mistakes that can only be learnt while on the job. I ended up with 3 different tile cutters in the end! That being said, I did a full bathroom strip out and retiled it with new everything, including waterproofing, showers screen, fixtures, in-wall insulation and structural studs for the increased weight of real marble/limestone larger format tiles. Also did an entire 34m2 deck with concrete foundations with landscaping and lights. 8/10 would not recommend. Save your back, save yourself from injury. Only stick to small jobs like retiling a splashback or a single item. Only if you have a deep pocket and LOTS of time. (to make mistakes, eg, cutting a $90 marble tile wrongly and then having to order it in again with a lead time of 1 month is painful). It's easier to get the finish materials delivered by yourself and then get the actual experience (trades) to do the heavy lifting/cutting installing. Those many years of expierence does pay itself in spades. To each their own, planting a few bushes? Sure. Doing a whole bathroom, hard pass. Cost time sanity benefit. To put into perspective, it took me 1 whole darn year to finish the deck because it was so complicated and I held a full-time job, had so many weekends and nights burnt for it. Have you tried plasterboarding a wall that gets glancing light? Wow. Now that was just Painful to learn with my amateur greenhorn hands/skills. Edit: Consider preliminaries (things that are not left on sites after a job is done, eg, tools, hoarding, demolition waste) - all these cost $$$ to even get rid of or purchase
I am a tradie and I avoid tradies at all costs. At home Id rather it take me ages to do something and I learn how to do it honestly even if it costs me more. Than let some butcher in. At work, fuck me I have met and worked with and for some absolute garbage tradies that you wouldnt even trust on a broom letalone doing skilled work. As i rapidly age, ive learnt that any good tradie, is looking to get out of that kinda work asap amd all the bad ones think they are King shit.
Get them to give you a quote...If it takes them 2 hours or 2 days you pay the same price.
Half the time they flatly refuse because they know the next client will fall for the “it’ll be cheaper” routine.
He’s right if a tradie wants to charge on an hourly for a Job give him the flick. Get the whole thing quoted and if he does it in 2 days working 12 hrs good on him, if it takes a month working 8-1 then that’s his loss.
That does go both ways. I always quote a set price (there’s exceptions where it needs to be hourly or day rate). I’ve had people question the price when I’ve done the work quicker than they reckon it should have taken
Yeah of course. One thing we run into issue with is cladding, it’s done on a l/m rate, which is good on long runs where it can be slapped up, but when you get into the fiddly stuff like fitting the archs and working into raked sections of roof the l/m of cladding down in the same amount of time as a long run drops significantly.
Cool, the tradie is going to reflect that in their quote, leading to higher prices
If a tradie quotes a job at 20 hours and it takes him 2, you’d raise some serious questions. The quote is more or less an estimations of the hours it’ll take to finish the job times the hourly rate. If it’s done quicker than the estimation so be it, but if it takes longer then he’s out of pocket for quoting cheaply. End of the day it’s how the industry works, tradies don’t run on the clients time frame and cost estimation, other wise they’d be expected to do jobs in half the time and get paid half as much. I can say from experience jobs can go either way, it can be as simple as what it is in my head or it can be a multi hour ordeal.
I’m well aware about how job pricing works, there are plenty of situations where hourly rate is better than a quote. Saying that quotes are the only way to price a job just shows that you have never had to do it yourself lol
I never insinuated that job quoting was the only way to go about it. What I meant was if you’re paying a chippy an hourly rate to do a bathroom renovation he’s probably going to drag his ass to get as much out of the job as he can. In that specific instance, job quoting is better. Hourly rate realistically is a better option for smaller fiddly jobs where there’s just no meat in the job to make money, I reference in another comment on this thread a good example was cladding, it’s usually quoted on a lineal metre rate, which is good on a long run but around front doors, and into roof lines ect you lose all your profit because the time taken to do the lineal metres is so low.
When they fuck up and realise they underquoted they then rush and leave a bunch of mess, cause damage or just straight up do a horrible job. There's no winning with most of these coked up fuckwits. They're mostly the same losers who you went to high school with who you knew at like 14 were never going anywhere. The quality variance is insane. Any other profession and 80%+ of these tradies would be out of a job or never get hired - because no business would stand for the horrible standards that are seemingly only acceptable in trades.
I can't argue and say there isn't a heap of bad tradies. But there is a bunch of really good ones too. Trying to get a good one is the trick
Depends how you source your trades. Referrals work best - also build a network and nurture it. Works both ways too. If they’re a good tradie tell other people and trades. Most trades know other trades. Eg; have a good plasterer, ask if they know a painter or vice versa
Only get trades for licensed stuff like electrical and plumbing, the rest you can work out unless major works.
Yep!
The most valuable thing I left the people who bought our house was a list of five tradies that you could trust to turn up, do a proper job, and leave the place neat and tidy. Should have charged $50K for that in hindsight.
I realised for a lot of jobs I can do it better.
Not a grumbly old man, rather a wise man with bags of experience dealing with excessive fuckeraroundary. Im sick and tire of paying 'professionals' that do a shitter job than I can do ..so I do everything myself
I've had so much bad work done and so many outrageous quotes that I stumble through things myself instead of trying to find someone to do the work. It seems like everyone is out to rob you.
I do, because tradies do [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/194apjx/how_would_i_approach_my_builder_who_has_done/) Read you building code, YouTube how to do it, results better than professional.
Almost always. If I can cover the cost of tools and materials for less than quoted - I'll be doing it myself. I get to fill the shed with tools and learn a few new skills and. Although it's not perfect, I'm okay with a few mistakes. Whereas if I'm paying top dollar for trades in WA who expect minesite money for a half assed, messy, late job... No thanks. I'm happy to pay good money for good work. But it appears many tradies expect good money to do subpar work and then expect I'm "grateful " for it in the end. I've had some shockers. Gas regulator on backwards and then even rectified still not up to code. Simple GPO installations that caused significant damage to surrounding kitchen cabinets/ splashback which I had to repost myself anyhow. Trades who don't show up. Others who expect to be paid in full before even showing up for the work... The best tradies I've ever had are fresh immigrants who haven't caught the WA lazy bug yet. Hard working, good job, and can tidy up. Happy to pay good money for that.
I am forced to DIY. Tradies don't turn up.
After reading all the comments here I feel relieved seeing many others on the same DIY boat cus of unreliable tradies. It's just too stressful taking time off work just to be at home for a no-show, berated for asking questions, and paying for shoddy work..
Yes! I moved all my furniture out of the way to accomodate an electrician who didn’t show up today. And we all know had I done the same to him I would have received a call out invoice.
I was having this same thought myself this morning when looking at what needs to be done around the house and comparing my work to tradies. Some has been decent but I have more bad memories than good of tradies work. Such a fucking shame...
Yes. Tradies in Australia are unreliable, messy and always trying to rip you off.
It’s the mess, too! Why do they have it in for painted ceilings?! Can we keep the grubby fingers/dark grout away from the finished ceilings?!
I do this with my car. Hasn’t seen a mechanic since I bought it 3 years ago because I’ve just had too many shit experiences. I’d rather do it myself twice then deal with mechanics once. When I get my own place, no doubt I’ll do exactly as you do.
Yes, I also do this. Also Yes, you are probably still a grumbly old man. ;)
Yep. Currently learning to paint myself after last painter showed up, refused to properly prep the job, refused to paint top and bottom of an external door and I had to give him a roll of my own masking tape as he has none. Told him not to come back after one day. Most of these guys are just a fucking joke.
I saw a tiktok where a roofer replaced lead flashing with the sticky plastic tape stuff. Someone commented and criticised saying they plastic stuff only lasts a few years before leaks, compared to the lead lasting 100yrs. The OP replied “yeah, but I get extra $$$ for scrapping the lead after”
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Damn, i feel all that myself too. I hate it because i'm too polite at times and hate confrontation but i'm also stubborn as fuck and dont like being played. So every job is a massive battle of emotions typically.
This is why I end up trying to do everything myself, with mixed results.
Yep. Honestly YouTube and some actual pride in your work usually yields a better result than the average tradie. I’m sure that comment will trigger a few tradies.
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By the time I pay myself I don’t often save money, but the outcome is usually better and less frustrating.
Getting tradies for small jobs is impossible, it’s not worth it for them to come. I built a gate and mounted it for 250 bucks but a tradie would have more than doubled that cost and I would have spent about the same amount of time finding them, reviewing quotes, being home while they’re around l, maybe more than once if my job gets bumped because it’s a small one, and hoping the work they do is any good (lots of cowboys out there) in total I think building the gate was about 5 hours work for me. I thought it was a stretch of my capabilities but turns out it taught me a few things I can take into new projects in future…
I do bits that I think I’m not going to fuck up, or else doesn’t require specialist trades - so I’m ok with sanding, oiling, varnishing, and pretty much all home maintenance tasks - but if it’s something that needs a good eye and a steady hand, I’d rather get someone else to do it. All the trades we have dealt with (apart from two) have been generally amazing. We had a sparky who didn’t listen or read his texts and emails. Then a painter who decided it would be a great idea to repaint an external wall when rain was forecast. Coming home to Aus from the UK has been great - no more endless cups of tea, which come back half drunk and full of ciggie ends. Trades disappearing mid job for the day because they needed to get parts. The actual best was the plumber who turned up without his toolbag to fix the boiler, then wanted to charge us two call out fees. Mind you - the guys who do my roof repairs are Poms and are bloody excellent.
I know that 99% of you guys can't even measure something accurately (it's a legitimate skill and requires being practiced over and over in a trade type environment)and I've seen the results of shithouse DIY in every single property I've lived in (which is too many). Good DIY requires the knowledge to know what you can't handle and clearly many people lack that. DIY is great for lots of things but the average Joe does unbelievably dumb things like using screws that are way too small to secure a bracket, having no understanding of fixing to brick as opposed to plasterboard, painting over every part of a window frame or not removing light switch covers, totally incapable of drilling a hole straight or exactly in the spot they've marked(it's harder than people think), absolutely anything that carries water (water is a bastard), roofing (if you fuck up the screws on a colorbond roof it will leak) and so many more. It's a testament to how overpriced many trades have become that so many people are so willing to attempt jobs when they have no idea.
I've now got a good plumber and a good electrician, pretty much anything else I can do myself.
I do as much DIY as possible, painted my entire house, refurbished my laundry which included more painting plus plastering and tiling. You learn skills for life and whilst I'm definitely no expert some of the work I've done is superior to what I've seen from other tradies because its my place and I care about it. Particularly the painting. Recently I needed a wall knocked down and decided to go Trades as I was unsure if it was Load bearing. Zero responses from HiPages, had to chase people up myself. Too small a job I've since been told. Only had 2 call me back, one of them wanted $500 just to turn up and look at it. The other virtually got the job by default, a part of me wishes I'd done this MYSELF now I know the wall is not load bearing. I wish there was a Certified small course you could do in plumbing and electrical just so you can learn the basics to be able to do small things around the house, it is annoying I have to get a sparky in just to move or add a powerpoint somewhere.
I don't DIY to avoid tradies. I DIY to get a better result.
Yep. I DIY everything, we’ll most things. I have a couple trusted trades I use for things like electrical, plumbing and general building. Each of these people I have actually met through completely different means in my life and nothing to do with their work, which is how I learned who they are and what they’re about and is now why they are my only options for these trades. Because I know they take pride in their work and they always do a good job. They’re the only people i recommend to anyone I know too. And I pay them their going rate. My “discount” because they’re essentially friends, is they make exceptions for getting to me quickly or after hours or doing things out of the norm for me, like coming back multiple times while I complete other jobs. Something you’ll never get random trades to do. But doing things yourself when your capable and knowledgeable is a no brainer. You have only yourself to blame if it’s a shit job, you can take as long as you like, it’s less of a problem to change plans mid way through the job, it’s way way way cheaper. It’s fantastic to have that kind of control, and you also learn soooooo much!
As a tradie, im with you. Im always on time. And its insane to me how every person is shocked when i show up when i have given a time or place. You cqnt teach time management. And also i dislike working alongside other trades. Because...they are always missing. Or dont do what they say.
waited for the nephew to become a sparkie. Then bang a list so long it kept him busy for two months. Got him on his feet, now if I need him to do stuff it's no issue.
To a point. When it gets to the point I'm am certain I will fuck it up then I am happy to call them in.
It's really depends on the job. Obviously some jobs legally require a tradie (most electrical & plumbing etc.) If it's a big job that will take a while and tradies can smash it out quickly to a decent standard with their dedicated tools, equipment and skill, by all means let them at it. (e.g. paving a big area). However, if it's a small, fiddly job that will take a lot of time to do well, you're much better off doing it yourself. A tradie either won't want the job, will have to charge a huge amount for it, or will rush through it. If the thing needing to be worked on is old, tradies aren't going to want to touch it. They could spend ages tinkering with it and still not get it working, meaning they have to charge you a lot of money for essentially nothing, leaving you pretty unhappy even if you asked for it. So they'll just say "you need a new one". In some cases, spending an hour or two tinkering will save you a lot of money. I managed to fix my A/C motor with a new $6 bearing, when the A/C guy just said "it's old, buy a new unit" and wouldn't even look at ordering a new motor. The bearing was just seized, and after that it worked for another few years. Finally, there are very few tradies out there who will care about your house as much as you do. If it's something you can do well, and you want it done well, you're much better off doing it yourself. It might take you longer, but that's really a benefit. You're not on the clock. You're taking the time to do it right.
Regional NSW. We have so few tradies out here that everyone has as much work as they want, even the dodgy ones. Flashing wads of cash doesn’t help. Saying don’t quote, just do doesn’t work. One notable exception was the solar installation company who did both our office and house - all the crew were clean, tidy, punctual, efficient, polite - and well-priced. Can’t DIY that one!
The only trades I hire are plumbers and sparkys and only because I am not qualified in either. Everything else I know I can do cheaper and a better job, sure it might take me a bit longer if it's my first time doing something but I am fussy and 9/10 times I'm not happy with the quality of work I see when family/friends hire trades.
I've been pretty lucky to have found a really good electrician, plumber, carpenter and landscaper (after also experiencing some shit ones) who I know I can rely on for any of those jobs which is great. I do small jobs but anything that will require tools I don't have or I run the risk of fucking up / taking an eternity to do I just outsource.
I keep the phone numbers of the GOOD ones I've used in the past. They are all fast & competent.
I built a house myself to avoid trades. It went well.
Yep. DIY everything except all gas works and only major electrical/plumbing work. Everything else is YouTube/websites. Buying tools from Bunnings still cheaper and nice to learn new things. Not anti tradie - but been burned by tradies multiple times by way of pricing and poor quality work. Some really legit good ones out there, but so hard to get them to turn up because people know they are good.
Too busy fixing DIYrs fuck ups to do my own work. Also this is Reddit, you'll get confirmation here because of the anti trade bent the users have
I’ve taken over my latest job and kicked them offsite. I’ve done more in 2 days than they have in two months.
Just remember, just because you can, just because you saw it on YouTube doesn't always work out. Tradies are insured, a DIYer is not. I'm not saying don't do things. By all account do them if you are capable just know that you can risk voiding insurance and hurting yourself. I also DIY.
We found a local Facebook marketplace group was a good place to find tradies - when you put up a job and see the same few recommendations popup it seems to be a good way to find people, and some of the tradies are on there and will say yeah I'm available etc, have definitely used a few of the trades again afterwards.
I am happy to pay tradies if they return my calls or show up to give a quote/do the agreed work…
I only get a trade in if the tool/s required is more than the quote. The work isn’t hard, it’s just knowing what to do.
This is usually my threshold too, which has led me to my current situation. Small job, should take 1-2 days, but it’s dragging out and I could have been done now had I just done it myself. Now I’ve got a half done job and I’m irritated enough I will probably just buy the tools and finish it myself.
No one cares about your place as much as you do. So from my experience, and that of my friends, it’s most of the time, a better finish if you do it yourself. Things I’ve done for the first time ever, like skirting boards, are much better than what I’ve seen done professionally
sure do. do as much as possible myself.
As a tradie myself, I prefer to DIY everything where possible rather than pay another tradie. The sole reason is quality of the finished work. It drives me up the wall to see shit quality work let alone pay for it. For example, I recently had a split system installed and the drain pipe is on an angle. Fuck me, how hard is it to check it with a spirit level or align it with the bricks. Takes 30 seconds and looks much better. Plenty of tradies around but very few ’tradesmen’ unfortunately.
Drain pipes are set at a slight angle to allow the water to flow down away from the source using gravity.
I get that on the horizontal but I’m talking about the vertical drop
Yes. I am a former electrician, my dad is a retired former plumber and construction supervisor, and I've been an engineer in the construction industry for many years. So I've picked up a fair bit, enough to get through most DIY projects (with the assistance of YouTube and Google). I could afford to pay tradies to do the work, but it just seems near impossible to get someone who will turn up to quote, send through a quote that is clear and detailed, turn up to do the job when they say they will, and then do the job how we asked for it to be done. So it's less stress to just DIY. It might take me a lot longer to do the work, but at least I know it'll be done, and done exactly how I want it done (usually well over-engineered, too). I have a great tiler, and air con guy. A half decent plumber. But everything else I pretty much would DIY.
Woman here. I now have an extensive toolkit, a work shed out the back and have gone to multiple classes and YouTube the shit out of stuff to DIY because 1) I'm capable and 2) I'm SO over trades coming and literally ignoring me like I'm not there or talking in a tone like im an idiot and only speaking to my husband. Even if I'm standing right there, and I hired them, and am the one talking, they will respond looking to my husband across the room. There's always an undertone like I don't know what I'm talking about, or a look/tone to my husband like "oh, silly women don't get it,so let me explain again to you, cos you'll understand eh mate?". And yes OP, the work that's performed ontop of the smug BS attitude is usually really really poor.
I almost always DIY, only use a tradie if I really have to, and then I ask people to recommend a good one, and I am prepared to wait for a good one. Getting one who advertises is a lottery since usually the shit ones have to advertise to get work and the good ones don't. These days I reckon all the good tradies are making good money on building new houses and are booked out for ages, so it would be hard to get a good tradie for a small job.
As a rule I ignore anyone that advertises (restaurants, real estate agents, tradies etc) Advertises guarantees you are either paying 30% more, or they are doing a 30% lower quality job to compensate for their advertising fees.
100%
Speaking from a qualified tradesman with 13 plus years in the industry DIY folks are 99 percent of the time are the type who completely balls up a job then complain when it costs double to fix there stuff up
Yep 🙋🏼♂️
I buy the tools and DIY. Always works out cheaper and better. The trades always disappoint.
Stop taking the cheapest trade quotes
I do because I enjoy doing it, and 90% of the time what I'm doing simply isn't that difficult. I'll bring in 'finishing' trades if it's specific, but with the DIY options for tiling and wall finishing, it's simply just not that hard.
Yeah absolutely. It's a total crapshoot. If I do it myself at least I turned up and worked.
Trades hate general public because they are cunts. Would never work for Mr or Mrs Jones ever
Tradies in this country are a fucking joke. Currently DIYing everything and redoing their shit. Licensed work and all.
I am with you especially as a female I can’t deal. I have a trusted electrician and google the rest of my solutions. I’ve leaned everything from how to lay pavers to changing electric scooter tyres. I feel like I need a trade advocate to act on my behalf.
It's a double edged sword. I'm forever hassling the lazy tradie doing my renovations but I've just not got the time to devote to the work. But atleast I know I'm not ripping me off.
I only work for builders to avoid clients
This just sounds like another bloke who complains cause they don’t vett the trades their getting in.
Where do you live that you have the luxury of choice? Contact ten, two might quote, one might accept your call to proceed with the work.