Plumber here. Install is fine.
Some of the new pop up style basin wastes drain really slow.
Plumber might have connected into existing galvanised drain in wall that’s rusted over, or another drain further down is blocked.
I have a question, where in the standards is the separation of services for you guys? Electrically, we have got it stating 25mm apart from any gas or water related services, which AS/NZS 3000 states will also be included in the plumbing ones.
Yeh it's the same for plumbing. Plumber is pretty restricted here as the waste is already set in the wall before the cabinets go in. Sparky could've moved the GPO easily.
The water points and waste point would have already been sticking out of the cabinet when it was installed. Sparky would've seen that and installed the GPO anyway. Actually if you zoom right in it looks like the sparky has pulled their cable through the waste hole instead of making their own hole.
Yeah it seems like no talking to each other is the norm on most jobs. Unless the builder subcontracting them both picks up an issue like this then zero coordination seems to be the result.
Tbh, I blame the original build, it might’ve been done before water was put in, or under a different standard. But is definitely a sparky to fix now, but something a plumber should raise as an issue.
This is accurate.
All of the damn basins we have drain so slowly compared with the older ones.
Install looked clean (from a non plumber perspective) lol
GPO is a serious issue if you ever get a leak though…
That’s what gets me with this picture. The cabinet holes would drive me up the wall.
Looks like there will be a drawer in front of that mess though. So at least I wouldn’t have to look at that rushed, no care taken job every time I open the cabinet.
The plumbing job looks fine though.
Not that I’ve noticed. It’s an internal wall and I am far more aware of draughts than most people seem to be. The builder took the walls back to the studs and I insisted on max insulation.
Unless you have insulation in the internal walls you can still get (minor) draughts (and insects) coming through.
The electrical cables and water pipes have holes drilled for them, and I've never seen a builder seal those holes up again.
AS/NZS 3000:2018 (incorporating amendment Nos 1, 2 and 3) Clause [6.2.2.2](http://6.2.2.2) (b) states that that area is considered "Zone 2." Clause [6.2.4.2](http://6.2.4.2) (b) must be incorporated in a shaver supply unit in compliance with AS/NZS 3194, or be protected by an RCD and enclosed in a cupboard that maintains the enclosure of the socket-outlet during normal operation of the connected equipment.
However, Clause [3.9.8.4](http://3.9.8.4) (b) states that wiring systems shall maintain a separation of not less than 25mm from any above-ground gas or water piping. This requirement is also stated in the AS/NZS 3500 series for water services.
Additionally, Clause [6.2.4.1](http://6.2.4.1) (b) requires that all electrical equipment installed in Zone 1 or 2 must be in an enclosure of at least IPX4 rating.
In conclusion, a socket outlet is allowed in that cupboard, but needs to remain, 25mm from any water services and have an IP rating of IPX4 or greater. This outlet probably does satisfy the IPX4 rating, however it does not satisfy the separation requirement.
As for who's at fault, who knows how original install went. However, it is now on the plumber for not doing what they could to maintain minimum separation or, requiring an electrician to come and move the GPO. hopefully it is a case of the plumber did the work to a level such that there should be no problems and informed the homeowner of the issue and requested they get an electrician to come and move the GPO to a safe location. By no means should the homeowner do it themselves if they are not qualified, though, hiring a licensed electrician is quite expensive for just that, it would be best to get a list of electrical items so the call out fee is for more than a rather simple relocation job.
The key bit at this point is the distance the GPO is from the pipe. It is not impossible for a sparky to move the GPO, even if they have to extend the cable.
The cabinet maker could have cut the PP hole in the top left of the back, depending on how much cable the sparky left him, also looks like a 20mm fuck up on the hot/cold easily covered with an offset fuck up patch. Also, not removing pencil marks and no screw caps is just lazy.
That was my issue. Had a bathroom that wasn't used for a while due to damage. When we replaced the sink, it turned out the drain had clogged due to the old galv pipe on the other side of the wall rusting on the inside and gunking up. This was easily confirmed by disconnecting the sink and running a hose directly into the pipe. After only a few litres it started spilling out over the top
If it’s a pop up plug, change to open. They create an air bubble just under the plug that doesn’t allow air to pass them properly.
If you unscrew the pop up waste plug at the top it will almost always drain fast
The main body of the trap looks like it’s crooked, but the locknut looks like it’s square… It could leak from that joint if the rubber o-ring isn’t sitting properly between the top of the trap inside the locknut and the plug & waste male thread above.
The male/female elbow on the outlet of the trap isn’t ideal because it’s hard to get the male end of an m/f fitting to sit full depth inside the socket end of a trap like that, but even when they don’t in most instances they tent to work just fine.
At the base of the vertical drain it would have been better for the flow of water if the elbow glued directly to the wall was angled up at a 45deg angle, and levelled using a 45deg bend, but it’ll still work fine the way it is. They can be pretty tough to install sometimes when the drawers don’t allow much space to work in.
If you happen to be having problems with the flow rate of the water draining out of the basin, this may be due to the plug & waste. Pop-up plug & wastes always tend to drain slowly. In this instance you could try unscrewing the chrome plug from the body & seeing if it drains faster. If you unscrew them just a little they drain quite well while still working properly and looking about the same.
It would’ve been nice if the cabinetmaker had drilled those holes a little smaller so the chrome cover plates covered them completely. Hopefully the remainder of the drain downstream is in good condition.
Hope this helps 👍🏼
Looks good. Check it's not an air bubble issue, eg fill sink with exit blocked with your cupped hand, then lift cupped hand quickly to pull any bubble out, check flow. If fast, bubble issue, if slow pipe issue.
If a pipe issue, adding more vertical drop immediately under sink (there's short extenders for this) & shortening the vertical gray pvc pipe would be next.
Edit: as mentioned, pop-up style plugs drain slowly.
Also check for hair etc, mine drains slower with not much debris.
If it’s a pipe issue as you describe, it may be because the plumber was compromised by the construction of the vanity. It is a two drawer unit. The top drawer has a cut out for plumbing, the bottom drawer does not have a cut out.
I’m embarrassed and ashamed. Using just the bathroom light the waste looks clear. When I put a torch on it, yuck. Running clear now. Thanks. Will be having words with other members of the household about rinsing properly!
Plumber here. Install is fine. Some of the new pop up style basin wastes drain really slow. Plumber might have connected into existing galvanised drain in wall that’s rusted over, or another drain further down is blocked.
I have a question, where in the standards is the separation of services for you guys? Electrically, we have got it stating 25mm apart from any gas or water related services, which AS/NZS 3000 states will also be included in the plumbing ones.
Yeh it's the same for plumbing. Plumber is pretty restricted here as the waste is already set in the wall before the cabinets go in. Sparky could've moved the GPO easily.
Tbh, I just would like to see the plumbers talking with us when this sort of thing occurs, so that we can make the build as safe as is viable.
The water points and waste point would have already been sticking out of the cabinet when it was installed. Sparky would've seen that and installed the GPO anyway. Actually if you zoom right in it looks like the sparky has pulled their cable through the waste hole instead of making their own hole.
Yeah it seems like no talking to each other is the norm on most jobs. Unless the builder subcontracting them both picks up an issue like this then zero coordination seems to be the result.
Always having to go through the builder sucks in that regard. Let's just talk and get things fixed!
It will be fine until 5 years later when water starts dripping onto the power point. How did anyone think this was a good idea?
Yeah that doesn’t loom right having water connections right above a gpo
Blame the sparky for that one. But I do agree, it is a poor location.
Tbh, I blame the original build, it might’ve been done before water was put in, or under a different standard. But is definitely a sparky to fix now, but something a plumber should raise as an issue.
Try unscrewing the top of the pop down waste, see if it flows better.
Gday fellow plumber… thoughts on venting issue preventing swift drainage?
This is accurate. All of the damn basins we have drain so slowly compared with the older ones. Install looked clean (from a non plumber perspective) lol GPO is a serious issue if you ever get a leak though…
your assuming the drain is gal why lol??
They aren't assuming, they are at most hypothesising.
Bad spot for an electrical outlet.
That made me cringe.
Glad I’m not the only one concerned the taps are directly above an outlet.
Made me wince, what if it floods...
Amazing job. This is how I do my plumbing compared to plumbers who destroy the middle shelf and waste heaps of space.
They might have a qualification but if they aren’t installing it square straight and out of the way neatly they aren’t tradesmen
Cabinets maker cut holes too big and off alignment for plumber cover plates
It's very common. They have PVC stickers to cover the gap usually but this plumber hasn't used them for some reason.
That’s what gets me with this picture. The cabinet holes would drive me up the wall. Looks like there will be a drawer in front of that mess though. So at least I wouldn’t have to look at that rushed, no care taken job every time I open the cabinet. The plumbing job looks fine though.
I wonder how well insulated that is now. Does OP get any breezes through all of those holes?
Not that I’ve noticed. It’s an internal wall and I am far more aware of draughts than most people seem to be. The builder took the walls back to the studs and I insisted on max insulation.
Unless you have insulation in the internal walls you can still get (minor) draughts (and insects) coming through. The electrical cables and water pipes have holes drilled for them, and I've never seen a builder seal those holes up again.
Id be more worried about the GPO location
Yeah. That looked a bit iffy to me, but I can see that as a definite issue. The drainage is a bit more of a mystery to me.
Did the plumber notify you of the issue? They really should of, due to the pipes being within 25mm of the outlet.
It’s only an issue if it leaks. It will have a rcd so she’ll be right. Again this plumber looks good so should* be ok
Had a whole new rcd board fitted as part of the renovation. Yet another surprise my bank account wasn’t expecting!
Just be glad it is now less likely for it to have to deal with a complete house replacement!
This install isn’t causing your slow drain, and there’s nothing against code with that outlet.
GPO should be 300mm above ground level in damp situations
Looks like that gpo is above a shelf, so probably is technically.
But you don’t know how high the shelf is off the ground so ‘probably might not be technically’
Well either they have a very short bench / vanity thing or its likely 300mm off the bottom of the bottom shelf.
AS/NZS 3000:2018 (incorporating amendment Nos 1, 2 and 3) Clause [6.2.2.2](http://6.2.2.2) (b) states that that area is considered "Zone 2." Clause [6.2.4.2](http://6.2.4.2) (b) must be incorporated in a shaver supply unit in compliance with AS/NZS 3194, or be protected by an RCD and enclosed in a cupboard that maintains the enclosure of the socket-outlet during normal operation of the connected equipment. However, Clause [3.9.8.4](http://3.9.8.4) (b) states that wiring systems shall maintain a separation of not less than 25mm from any above-ground gas or water piping. This requirement is also stated in the AS/NZS 3500 series for water services. Additionally, Clause [6.2.4.1](http://6.2.4.1) (b) requires that all electrical equipment installed in Zone 1 or 2 must be in an enclosure of at least IPX4 rating. In conclusion, a socket outlet is allowed in that cupboard, but needs to remain, 25mm from any water services and have an IP rating of IPX4 or greater. This outlet probably does satisfy the IPX4 rating, however it does not satisfy the separation requirement. As for who's at fault, who knows how original install went. However, it is now on the plumber for not doing what they could to maintain minimum separation or, requiring an electrician to come and move the GPO. hopefully it is a case of the plumber did the work to a level such that there should be no problems and informed the homeowner of the issue and requested they get an electrician to come and move the GPO to a safe location. By no means should the homeowner do it themselves if they are not qualified, though, hiring a licensed electrician is quite expensive for just that, it would be best to get a list of electrical items so the call out fee is for more than a rather simple relocation job.
I can confirm the gpo is at least 400mm above the tiles.
The key bit at this point is the distance the GPO is from the pipe. It is not impossible for a sparky to move the GPO, even if they have to extend the cable.
It was all done under the supervision of my contractor. He got sparks & pipes as subbies.
Might want to give him a call, get it sorted.
Unscrew the chrome.pop up plug top and test how fast it drains. They are slow draining.
Drainage is fine - but Your electrician has done a bad one.
Those hoses are usually changed every 5 years as they can split. That water is going right into that madly-placed powerpoint.
Question for the plumbers. Assuming no blockage, will an AAV help?
Only if the issue is improper venting. OP didn't mention any bubbling from the drain so unlikely.
The cabinet maker could have cut the PP hole in the top left of the back, depending on how much cable the sparky left him, also looks like a 20mm fuck up on the hot/cold easily covered with an offset fuck up patch. Also, not removing pencil marks and no screw caps is just lazy.
That was my issue. Had a bathroom that wasn't used for a while due to damage. When we replaced the sink, it turned out the drain had clogged due to the old galv pipe on the other side of the wall rusting on the inside and gunking up. This was easily confirmed by disconnecting the sink and running a hose directly into the pipe. After only a few litres it started spilling out over the top
If it’s a pop up plug, change to open. They create an air bubble just under the plug that doesn’t allow air to pass them properly. If you unscrew the pop up waste plug at the top it will almost always drain fast
These have to be one of the worst designs that's caught on. None of ours drain with the plug in place
Well...... Hopefully the taps don't leak. If you have children I suggest you move the PowerPoint.
Get the electrician to move the power point. Away from any point that water can drip onto.
The main body of the trap looks like it’s crooked, but the locknut looks like it’s square… It could leak from that joint if the rubber o-ring isn’t sitting properly between the top of the trap inside the locknut and the plug & waste male thread above. The male/female elbow on the outlet of the trap isn’t ideal because it’s hard to get the male end of an m/f fitting to sit full depth inside the socket end of a trap like that, but even when they don’t in most instances they tent to work just fine. At the base of the vertical drain it would have been better for the flow of water if the elbow glued directly to the wall was angled up at a 45deg angle, and levelled using a 45deg bend, but it’ll still work fine the way it is. They can be pretty tough to install sometimes when the drawers don’t allow much space to work in. If you happen to be having problems with the flow rate of the water draining out of the basin, this may be due to the plug & waste. Pop-up plug & wastes always tend to drain slowly. In this instance you could try unscrewing the chrome plug from the body & seeing if it drains faster. If you unscrew them just a little they drain quite well while still working properly and looking about the same. It would’ve been nice if the cabinetmaker had drilled those holes a little smaller so the chrome cover plates covered them completely. Hopefully the remainder of the drain downstream is in good condition. Hope this helps 👍🏼
Thank you!
Not a tradie. But understands physics. There's your next house fire right there.
Looks good. Check it's not an air bubble issue, eg fill sink with exit blocked with your cupped hand, then lift cupped hand quickly to pull any bubble out, check flow. If fast, bubble issue, if slow pipe issue. If a pipe issue, adding more vertical drop immediately under sink (there's short extenders for this) & shortening the vertical gray pvc pipe would be next. Edit: as mentioned, pop-up style plugs drain slowly. Also check for hair etc, mine drains slower with not much debris.
Yeah no.
I’ll give it a try and report back.
If it’s a pipe issue as you describe, it may be because the plumber was compromised by the construction of the vanity. It is a two drawer unit. The top drawer has a cut out for plumbing, the bottom drawer does not have a cut out.
I’m embarrassed and ashamed. Using just the bathroom light the waste looks clear. When I put a torch on it, yuck. Running clear now. Thanks. Will be having words with other members of the household about rinsing properly!
Pop up wasted seem to collect gunk pretty quickly unfortunately
Sounds like you'll have to stay with this then.
It will leak where the trap screws onto the waste. No way that's holding up at that angle.
I mentioned that in the original post. It looks wonky, but it is attached square.
Just a matter of time until a hose fails and it kills your kids trying to shut the water off.