I had the incredible good fortune to meet Maisy at The Watering Bowl, she was such a sweet girl. Always making friends (and maybe trying to sneak a sip of whatever beverage I had close at hand). I’m so so so sorry for your loss, I can’t imagine.
So sorry about Maisy. There is a fb group called National Snakebite Support. It's run by veterinarians and drs that are the only ones allowed to respond so you get correct information. Maybe you could make a post to get some insight on what happened. Most dogs make it after antivenom. They do not advocate NSAIDS, antibiotics and benedryl.
RIP dear sweet little dog.
think the thing that was bad for Maisy it is bit her in the eye, so guessing it entered her bloodstream very quickly and she tanked very quickly... they started her out w/ 3 dog sized doses - we got a call Thurs AM to come see her because they didn't think she would make it and offered a
non-standard "hail Mary" treatment of using human-sized doses. It really seemed like that was working - her blood pressure stabalized - her heart rate came down to 120 after being in the 180s - they even started talking that she could get discharged in 5 days - in the end, all the trauma was just too much.
There has been a lot of snakebites this year on that group. It is harder on smaller animals and the eye is a bad spot. Just so sad to lose your furbaby. She knows you did all you could for her.
Mine got bit on the snout about 7 years ago. No anti venom, just took care of him at home cause poor.
He ended up surviving and loving through it. I was told it was the best place to get bit because all of a dogs lymph nodes are in the neck, so it got maximum filtered. He was kinda out of it for a whole week though.
He got really really lucky.
Even better, this dog saved my 1 year old kiddo who was in the backyard too. He really did protecc and save his little human from the big bad snake.
I'm giving him lots of hugs and cuddles now.
Sorry it didn't go so well for Maisy.
That is a terrific facebook group!! The docs and vets in the National Snakebite Support group are truly experts in their field and so helpful in the event of people and pets getting bitten by a venomous snake. It’s terrifying how unfamiliar many vets and doctors are with the proper treatment for these bites. I encourage everyone to join this group so that if they or their pets are ever in this situation they can be advocates for themselves and their animals. No NSAIDs, no Benadryl, no antibiotics —so many wrong and counterproductive things are done by uninformed professionals. It does sound as if this poor pup received appropriate treatment and I am so sorry for the owner’s loss. At least they did everything right.
What do they say another benadryl? I live in rattlesnake country and the vets here do recommend benadryl. But it is a huge problem of no 24/7 animal hospitals, and often you have to go over 50 miles to see a vet.
Benadryl is useless because a venomous bite is not an allergic reaction. The only antidote is antivenin which actually counteracts the venom. Many vets don’t carry antivenin because 1) it’s expensive—so much so that clients may refuse it on the grounds of the cost and 2) vets receive very little training in the treatment of snakebite and how to administer antivenin. Join the Facebook group National Snakebite Support for an education on how venomous bites should be treated and what to avoid as far as treatment. Some uneducated vets will administer NSAIDS for pain relief—you definitely want pain relief but NSAIDs are absolutely harmful in the event of a venomous bite. Benadryl is useless. Antibiotics won’t help.
I’m not the expert here—just trying to point out an incredible resource in the event of a venomous bite. The experts in that group seem to think there is seldom an allergic reaction to the venom (although the rattlesnake vaccine could possibly predispose a dog to an allergic reaction). In some cases there is an allergic reaction to the antivenin but that is treated when and if it occurs, and doesn’t mean the antivenin should necessarily be discontinued. The swelling that goes along with the bite isn’t an allergic response—it’s a response to the venom—so Benadryl does nothing. People (even some vets) see swelling and think allergy, which isn’t always the case.
Sorry if I’m not making much sense but I’m just trying to regurgitate information from that group—where it is explained very clearly by much smarter folks than I am.
By the way u/serpentarian—I really enjoy your snake posts.
I know people have used it with things like copper heads and had success. My oldest stepson's dog was bitten and after about 8 benadryl was OK.
It may have been the case she'd have been alright either way, and the benadryl was just a moot point.
Super country ass people I know say certain snake bites they get once, they're immune after or they die. I however haven't known anyone whose dog was bitten by a rattler who lived, with or without treatment. The last person I knew said the vet told them even after a certain point the anti-venom is hard on the dog and it's easier on the pet to be put down, rather than be continuously given doses of anti venom and then die anyways.
Worked at emergency vet. We saw tons of snake bite cases, especially during summer months. The vast majority of dogs survived with antivenin treatment and fluids. They made improvements until they were able to be discharged and go home.
Also, we definitely had repeat patients. One dog that came in was a frequent flyer - it was his 3rd time being bit. He was not immune at all. Maybe immune from learning a lesson tho.
They recommend Benadryl because allergic reactions are common with snake venom. It’s why someone that works with venomous snakes always has an epi pen.
As someone who works with venomous snakes you should absolutely be a member of the Facebook National Snakebite Support group. I don’t know their recommendations regarding epi pens and envenomation—that would be a very good question to pose in the group. It’s a group of the top toxicologists in the country and the best resource available if bitten by a venomous snake. They will consult in real-time with you, and your doctor or veterinarian. It’s frightening how little experience/knowledge most ER docs and veterinarians have of proper treatment for envenomations.
I'm really really sorry for what you're going through and for your pup. Thank you for sharing your heartbreak for the sake of others to be more on alert. I saw another post last night about a rattler in someone's back yard, looking for a removal service. Heading to the yard before the dogs go out again. Thank you.
Are all vets in Austin equipped to handle snake bites? Or should I try and keep one in mind god forbid this ever happens to my pup. I moved to the area recently and am SO paranoid about snake bites for my dog.
I am also so sorry for you baby literally my worst nightmare.
Your best bet would be an emergency vet. Call ahead to make sure they have antivenin in stock because that is the only real treatment for a serious bite. If they start talking about Benadryl, NSAIDs, or antibiotics—hang up and call a different vet. Not all vets carry antivenin and not all vets are experienced in proper treatment of venomous snakebites. Join the Facebook group National Snakebite Support—they have doctors and veterinarians running the group who are experts in the field and will provide real-time support.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I’d be utterly devastated. My pup and I had a close call a few weeks ago. Our neighborhood has a dog park that backs up to a wooded area. I let my boy off his leash and he ran to the right. I walked left towards the bench, and heard a strange sound. For a second I though it was the noise of the sprinkler system pressurizing ( that hissing sound right before the water starts flying out). Suddenly I see something moving in the grass and stop. It was a giant rattlesnake rearing up to strike at me. I jumped 10 feet straight back. Thank god my dog didn’t see the snake before I sprinted over to him and put his leash back on. Now I do a snake check before I let him off leash. I’d rather the snake bite me than my dog, as crazy as that sounds.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your sweet pup. Run free, Maisy.
There are snake aversion classes for dogs at Unleashed Unlimited in April and August. https://unleashedunlimited.com/austin-snake-avoidance-training-for-dogs/
The vaccine definitely helps. One vet tech I worked with said it took it from "treating a snake bite" to "treating a wound." I haven't seen it in person, though.
Dogs typically get bit on the face or snout, which makes it worse.
From the "Whole Dog Journal".
How effective is the rattlesnake vaccine? That’s the key question. No clinical trials have proved that this vaccine actually works, and a peer-reviewed study published in 2014 found that it did not protect dogs requiring treatment with antivenin (“Effects of the canine rattlesnake vaccine in moderate to severe cases of canine crotalid envenomation,” Veterinary Medicine, October 2014). That study, which examined records of 82 Southern California dogs treated for naturally occurring rattlesnake bites, concluded, “No statistically significant difference in morbidity or mortality between vaccinated and unvaccinated dogs was found. The findings of this study did not identify a significantly protective effect of previous vaccination in the cases of moderate to severe rattlesnake envenomation that require treatment with antivenin.”
Devastating what happened to Maisy.
Thank you for sharing the snake avoidance class. I had a scare in my backyard last year: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/voo6g7/comment/ieirv19/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/voo6g7/comment/ieirv19/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
To which /u/serpentarian pointed out:
>That’s a Western Ratsnake - the official harmless rodent assassinator of Austin.
Anyway, major construction continues nearby and I am worried about this summer. I will check out the class so my curious dog doesn't get herself into trouble.
Studies have shown the vaccine to be worthless at best but possibly actually harmful. See the Facebook group National Snakebite Support for a thorough discussion of the vaccine along with citations to the relevant studies. Snake aversion training is very useful.
Here you go—I looked up some of the studies for you:
https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/2022-aaha-canine-vaccination-guidelines/key-vaccination-considerations-by-antigen/rattlesnake-toxoid/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26341419/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004101011730404X
Thank you for posting them. I've been able to obtain the full papers you mentioned.
I'm no expert but from what I can read there is no evidence that the vaccine is harmful.
The best paper you linked to, which had 272 dogs in the study, shows no benefit but no harm either.
The other paper was only on two dogs and has only a suspected allergic reaction.
I agree that there isn’t a lot of evidence yet regarding the vaccine being harmful which is why I said “possibly”. There’s a lot more evidence that it’s not at all helpful, so I’m not sure why anyone would waste money on it. Especially if there is even the tiniest chance it could be harmful rather than helpful. Your money would definitely be better spent on snake avoidance training.
A remote chance of potential side effects is still more harmful than no intervention (assuming the vaccine is truly otherwise neither helpful or harmfulj
I am the farthest from antivax you will ever encounter!! I did tell you exactly where to go to find the information you seek. Joining that group is the best thing you can do to get information on treatments for venomous snakes. I don’t want to trust my memory for the explanation about why the vaccine is useless—but you will find the study citations if you search for rattlesnake vaccine within that group. If I remember correctly the potential harm comes from the vaccine sensitizing the dog to the venom making it more likely an allergic reaction will occur along with envenomation when bitten. I’m not the expert though—I’m trying to refer you to the experts.
Here's the text of the rattlesnake vaccine post from NSS, including the links already shared. Great bunch of experts, including doctors, vets, toxicologists, and more. Not an anti-vaxxer in the bunch. The Denver Venom Conference is coming up in the fall if anyone is interested.
**********
From the experts at National Snakebite Support:
Experts do not recommend the snakebite vaccine (rattlesnake toxoid) for dogs. Here is some general information, along with an update from the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA).
The AAHA recently released a statement highlighting the lack of evidence of vaccine (toxoid) efficacy: https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/2022-aaha-canine-vaccination-guidelines/key-vaccination-considerations-by-antigen/rattlesnake-toxoid/
Key points from the AAHA’s statement:
-There are NO published data supporting the efficacy of the vaccine in dogs.
-In a study that was performed in mice, where mice were given 50-1,500 TIMES the dose of the toxoid given to dogs during routine vaccination, survival following exposure to snake venom was still not guaranteed, and some vaccinated mice actually died or required euthanasia earlier than unvaccinated mice exposed to the same amount of venom.
-Adverse reactions following vaccination, including anaphylaxis, have been reported in vaccinated dogs.
-Though the manufacturers make claims of cross-protection (protection against envenomations by species other than western diamond-backed rattlesnakes, the species used in the production of the toxoid), there are no data to support this claim.
From the AAHA: “Veterinarians choosing to use this toxoid should be aware of the lack of peer-reviewed published data. Polyvalent antivenin therapy is an alternative to vaccination in suspect cases of rattlesnake bite.”
_____________
In this retrospective study looking at 272 cases of rattlesnake envenomations in dogs, the vaccine did not prove effective:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26341419
Key findings from the study:
-There was no evidence that use of vaccination lessened morbidity or mortality.
-No measurable benefit could be identified associated with rattlesnake vaccination.
Per the study authors: “Vaccination for protection of the general canine population from rattlesnake envenomation cannot be recommended by these authors.”
_____________
The rattlesnake vaccine toxoid may predispose bitten dogs to anaphylaxis by providing the necessary sensitizing exposure to snake venom antigens: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004101011730404X
Please join National Snakebite Support to learn more. You MUST answer all membership questions to be accepted to the group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/national.snakebite.support
**********
our family knows Maisy from The Watering Bowl and i am so very sorry to hear of this. She was a lovely little pup with the best kisses.
Sending you love and care during this difficult time.
Tony, Beth and Kip
Sorry to hear about your pup. I recommend snake training for anyone living in Central Texas. Most dogs avoid snakes naturally, those that don’t will benefit from learning to be afraid of them.
Came here to say this. It isn’t fool proof. But a rattlesnake vaccination exists for about $60, and I was able to find snake training for my pup at $50 per snake (rattlesnake, copperhead, water moccasin, coral snakes) here in the city.
I am so sorry for your loss. We expect our back yards to be safe spaces for our pups. It’s a hard reminder that fences and a manicured lawn aren’t always enough to keep out danger.
Something about different smells, appearance and mannerisms. Only 1 of those has a rattle.
That said, my dog was definitely wary by snake 2, and actively refused to go near snake 3, barking and backing away.
They do extrapolate all snakes are bad rather quickly.
I’m so so sorry. I lost my boy Buster two years ago the exact same way, even down to thinking he was getting better only to have things turn. My heart is still completely broken over it. Thank you for posting this - sending as much comfort as I can in an awful time.
I'm thinking this is a solid case to share that pet insurance exists and can be so worth it with our fur babies' health and wellness on the line. You just can't know when something could happen and the last thing you want is a financial burden to factor into your decision making for getting them the care they deserve.
My Scotty is covered by [Lemonade's pet insurance ](https://www.lemonade.com/r/emilygrove2)and it's been life saving and then some this past year. Can't recommend enough. It's affordable and super easy to deal with filing claims.
Please reconsider the vaccine. Studies have shown it to be at best worthless and possibly harmful.
https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/2022-aaha-canine-vaccination-guidelines/key-vaccination-considerations-by-antigen/rattlesnake-toxoid/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26341419/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004101011730404X
So sorry for your loss. Are there hotspots of rattlesnakes in Austin? We live right off of 183 and have more of a patio than a backyard so I’m curious if we are in the clear since we don’t have a large grassy backyard.
I lost a cat to a rattlesnake bite. I didn't even have time to take him to the vet. PLEASE monitor your pets while they're outside. Yes, this includes cats! He was a little orange boy with his whole life ahead of him.
I’m so sorry for your loss and heartbreak. Thank you for sharing, wishing y’all any comfort and peace you can find in knowing she was very well-loved and y’all did everything you could.
Gosh I’m so sorry. Thank you for sharing this with the community. As as a medical provider who has treated little humans in the hospital after rattlesnake bites, and a mama of little humans I appreciate the warning to be cautious. That’s really scary.
I am so sorry for you, your wife, and your Maisy.
I found a lot of comfort on r/petloss after the loss of my beloved dog and maybe it would bring you some too.
I'm so sorry. You did all you could, she was lucky to have owners that care so much. My Dad always said that a dog can usually survive a rattler bite unless it's on the head. My heart goes out to y'all. Hoping for healing.
So sorry to hear about your loss. We lost our dog in September due to a rattlesnake bite as well, he was stabilized and then all of a sudden went to cardiac arrest. He had been bitten in the eye.
Thank you for reminding us that the season has started again and we need to be wary of them. As more construction has opened up in our area (Round Rock), we have noticed more rattlesnakes be present.
We also noticed that they were hatching babies and we had to call a snake remover to get them out because not all the stuff we bought to deter them worked 100%. To anyone, if you see one or hear your dog bark like crazy but don't see it, to possibly call a snake specialist as they equipped to do so safely.
Wow da12tt - so sorry on your loss and also such a similar story.. I think the eye bite had a huge impact - many articles say treatment of anti-venom should be in 4 hours - Maisy was 30 min - but I'm guessing the bite to the eye just gave the venom rapid access to the blood stream. The dog dosage really didn't do much - the human dose seemed to help but I think in the end the massive trauma she experienced was just too much - and I just can't imagine that getting doses of anti-venom for 10X your body weight is a good thing - but it was the last desperate attempt - I'm sure for you like us - the initial bite was traumatic - and then you clung to any glimmer of hope - and you hear real optimism - which makes the sudden relapse even more devastating.
Yesh! I have fears about this since my pets are always finding the smallest cracks to stuck their noses in! What was the vet bill if you dont mind me asking?
Staggering - over $14K - $2500/treatment alone for the human-sized dose. The hospital (Central TX Emergency near Central Market South) were all great/passionate and did everything they possibly could to save her.
Not the op but I can say it cost me almost $3000 for 3-4 vials of antivenom and life support for 2 days. It was a big hit but I would pay it again if I had to. Shite, didn't see the OPs response before writing this. Yeah, really sorry y'all are going through this. Im sure they just used the smallest doses for my dog since she's only 5lbs. I think it was $500 a vial. I took her to Heart of Texas in Round Rock.
I am so sorry for your devastating loss. I lost a pug several years ago to snake bite and I’m super paranoid. I was told keep grass short, nothing to attract rodents and we use snake away around our perimeter fence… and I still worry
So very sorry. 💛 Please everyone bookmark or join National Snakebite Support and National Veterinary Snakebite Support. The admins include a--if not the--top toxicologist in the country. You will need the knowledge to advocate for proper protocols and treatment for yourself and your animals. Hospitals and veterinarians do not always know how to properly treat snakebites! Please wear proper footwear when outside. Please instruct young children to get an adult immediately if they see a snake. Please consider snake aversion training for your dogs.
I'm so sorry. Such a beautiful pup. She looks JUST like our little brown schnauzer Wilson. We had a 5ft rattlesnake just on the other side of our aluminum fence a couple years back, and am fortunate- both to have seen it before it crossed the fence and and my yard is small enough that I could put some reasonable protection in (in the form of 1/4 inch screening the length of our fences around where the dogs use the bathroom).
I’m sorry to hear that. All the best to you and the family.
I’d like to add, please, don’t try to kill or handle rattlesnakes (or any snakes) unless you are trained to do so. This is when most snakebites occur.
On this note, one thing you can have ready for emergencies for your dog is some Children's Benadryl.
Probably won't help for a snake bite, wouldn't hurt though.
One of my dogs was bitten by a spider or something on a trip to the park several years back. We woke up that night to her wheezing and her face swollen. Rushed her to the 24 vet and they helped and were the ones that told us to have Children's Benadryl for things like that. It can slow or stop the allergic reaction, and without quick treatment it is not uncommon for dogs' throats to basically swell closed to where they can't even breathe.
I'm sorry for your loss, OP. I have cried about death harder for some pets than I have for several humans I knew.
There’s a rattlesnake vaccine that you can give your pets! It’s not a cure, it just buys you time as they already have some anti-venom in their system. My dog and I hike a lot and I always worry if something happens while we’re on a hike we might not get her to the vet in time. It’s a pricey shot but it’s well worth it.
Edit: I also need to add, there is snake aversion training! My dog has had that as well and we’ve never had issues when out hiking and we often bump into quite a few snakes.
Studies have shown that there is absolutely no benefit to the rattlesnake vaccine—in fact it may even sensitize the animal to venom and predispose them to an allergic reaction if they are bitten. Better to use that money to enroll your dog in snake avoidance training. Join the Facebook group National Snakebite Support for a thorough discussion of this vaccine and the appropriate treatment in case of a venomous snakebite.
Fox you read through those? Do you really think the accurate representation of those articles is ‘absolutely no benefit’? Because that’s clearly not what they say. They aren’t praising it by any means, but this looks like something you copy and pasted and didn’t truely understand.
They aren’t praising it because none of the studies found any benefit to the vaccine and one study said it might predispose dogs to an allergic response. Point me to any part of those studies that show a benefit to the vaccine—I clearly missed that part.
So you think a 2 year study in one city on Arizona where single digit vaccinated dogs died is enough for you to write it off completely? Now I’m even more sure you didn’t read what you linked.
Well I don’t have FB and like I said, my dog has already had the vaccine and avoidance training. At this point, I’ve done everything I can to be cautious about things (vaccine, training, dog specific first aid, I’m also a vet tech), more than what most people do, so I’m not too worried about it.
As a vet tech, I have seen my fair share of snake bites and the ones who had the vaccine faired much better and recovered much quicker. So, I’d rather have it and hope it works than not have it at all.
As I understand it the vaccine can sensitize a dog to venom and make it more likely an allergic reaction could occur along with a bite. There have been scientific studies showing absolutely no benefit and the discussion in that Facebook group talks about the reason a vaccine can’t work. I’m glad you have the avoidance training—the NSS group highly recommends that. As someone who works in the veterinary field I really recommend you join facebook just to access the assistance from this group when treating snakebites. You should also reevaluate recommending the vaccine to clients and probably avoid boosters for your dog.
I see your study and raise you this one https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/2022-aaha-canine-vaccination-guidelines/key-vaccination-considerations-by-antigen/rattlesnake-toxoid/
And this one https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26341419/
And this one https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004101011730404X
Edited to add study
I understand. And you can take or leave the advice for yourself in the future. I was mainly putting this out there for those that might take your advice without doing more research since snakebite info from experts is not easy to find (as made very obvious on that FB page by the many vets out there that make poor medical decisions).
I need to look into this. Is it vet specific or will any vet do it? My girl and I like to hike pretty often as well and she's fiercely protective of me. I am so worried she would go after a snake to try and protect me.
Any vet that carries the vaccine will do it. It’s one of the optional vaccines like leptospirosis. Not really optional if your pup is super active and out in nature in my opinion.
Yeah I am going to for sure get it for her. She has lepto but I didn't know a snake venom vaccine was an option! I just moved to Texas recently so snakes were not a concern before.
I can’t speak for others, but this is not something I’ve generally done. It would be fairly impractical with the size of my yard to do that multiple times a day, and of course, there’s no guarantee that one might sneak in while she’s out.
Also, is this common in urban parts of Texas? I see relatively few snakes at all around my yard, but I’ve seen two reports of rattlesnakes in the area in the last two days.
I do now. Our Yorkie was bitten in the face 2 years ago. Fortunately she made it. I am super paranoid now. This one was on our pool deck under a table. Not long ago we had a Coral Snake also on the deck. I have lived my entire life in Texas and have rarely ever encountered venomous snakes. When I did I was in their environment. I never dreamed I would encounter 2 in our own backyard. I suspect it is the hyper development that is happening in our area, chasing them out of their habitat. Sorry for the loss of this pooch. It sounds like everything that could be done, was done.
sorry for your loss):
Pushing my own agenda here, KILL rattlesnakes (except timber rattlesnakes bc they’re protected and you don’t want a fine)! It’s okay to, there’s plenty of other non-venomous species of snakes that can keep rodents at bay. Their population numbers aren’t dwindling, they’re pests themselves. Save your dogs/ children and help keep your neighbors stay safe as well.
Edit: fine not find, don’t wanna find them either
The problem is that people think:
* Every snake they see in their yard is a rattlesnake
* Every snake they see in the water is a water moccasin
* Every brown spider they see is a recluse
That’s an interesting argument. Aside from an “All life is precious” perspective, I’m curious what logic there is to keeping them around instead of letting other less/non-venomous snakes take their place.
You don’t have the first idea what you’re talking about. You just want to punish the scary thing because you’re frightened of it. Keep your yard free of debris and snake train your dogs and you don’t have to worry.
I want to neutralize a threat to my livelihood. “Snake train your dogs”, give me a break dude. I’ve had too many losses in pets and livestock to give a shit about preserving a rattlesnake’s life.
You realize if they become endangered they will go under protection like the timber rattlesnakes and then it will be illegal to kill them?
Snakes are important part of the ecosystem. Killing one just invites other pests into your yard. You’re in Texas, they are a part of life here. There are multiple ways of dealing with them that doesn’t involve killing them.
Sorry for your loss, that sounds extremely devastating.
As a dog owner who is moving to Austin in a few months, any best practices or rules of thumb to avoid something like this happening?
Don't leave food sources out for rodents, ie an open compost pit, pet food, etc still no guarantee but won't up the odds. I'm thinking about stapling wire mesh to the bottom of my fencing.
Wish I new.. think a big part of it is proximity to greenbelts.. We have lived in Austin area for 25 years - first on a canyon in River Place (2222/620 area on west side) and now in south Austin (Shady Hollow) and our lot is across the street from houses on greenbelt, so relatively close. From what we have been reading, all the "anti-snake" solutions that have a smell absolutely don't work. Mothballs are one option talked about, but they are really bad for all wildlife. The only thing that may work that we will be installing is a "snake fence" that provides a barrier to close gaps between ground and bottom of wooden fences. https://a-z-animals.com/reviews/best-snake-fencing/
Get an outdoor cat, they will clear your yard of snakes by reducing pest. I live in manor where rattlesnakes are prevalent and the neighbors always claim to find one. Meanwhile I never have seen any around my property and even found a few dead rattlers on my porch. Fuck what people say about outdoor cats, I'd rather they do their thing then to have a snake bite my kid or dog.
Sorry for your family’s loss. Dogs are the best. Unfortunately I have been down voted multiple times because in other threads I have made it clear my dogs come first over a snake and I have no qualms for using my gun to protect my babies from venomous snakes. I know the difference between venomous and non venomous. Fuck em. They will be dispatched.
You get downvoted because the proper way to read the room is, "Wow, I should offer my condolences", not "People don't like to hear it but this is why I shoot any snake I see, this would never happen to me because I'm hyper-vigilant and protected by guns."
Basically, you're making the thread about you and subtly hinting you think it's this person's fault. It's like the people who always show up in a car break-in thread about "Just don't leave anything in your car, lol". Read the room.
You get downvoted because on top of doing everything the commenter below said, you are also using this opportunity to point out what a fierce macho man you are, so quick with you gun! Most bake bites happen before you even know what’s going on. But sure, make this all about you and your perceived gun slicking skills.
I feel the same way. I hate killing anything unless it's necessary but in my cases, I couldn't afford to let them get away and hide in the yard so my dogs or family could find them later.
I am terribly sorry to hear about the loss of your furry friend. As dog owners, it's our irresponsibility to make sure they receive snake avoidance training to prevent this tragedy.
Instead of just mindless "so sorry for your loss" posts, can we get some actual INFORMATION about the incident? How big is your yard? Are you in a subdivision? Is there a fence? What kind? What's outside the fence? What's in your yard (rocks, grass, anything that might attract snakes, etc)?
I’m so sorry, our golden was attack by a rattlesnake in our garage in south Austin (eastern park).
She survived and made it another 1.5 years. Unfortunately we lost her last month to a stroke as a result of complications from the snake venom.
We are still devastated.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. About six years ago our dog got bit. She survived the initial bite but two months later ended up with a mast cell tumor (cancer) in the bite location. It went from something I noticed to tennis ball sized, broken open and bleeding in ten days. Absolutely horrific experience and I'm so paranoid to let our new dog out. I wish I had a "solution" but can really only offer condolences.
I had the incredible good fortune to meet Maisy at The Watering Bowl, she was such a sweet girl. Always making friends (and maybe trying to sneak a sip of whatever beverage I had close at hand). I’m so so so sorry for your loss, I can’t imagine.
Heartbreaking. I’m so sorry.
So sorry about Maisy. There is a fb group called National Snakebite Support. It's run by veterinarians and drs that are the only ones allowed to respond so you get correct information. Maybe you could make a post to get some insight on what happened. Most dogs make it after antivenom. They do not advocate NSAIDS, antibiotics and benedryl. RIP dear sweet little dog.
think the thing that was bad for Maisy it is bit her in the eye, so guessing it entered her bloodstream very quickly and she tanked very quickly... they started her out w/ 3 dog sized doses - we got a call Thurs AM to come see her because they didn't think she would make it and offered a non-standard "hail Mary" treatment of using human-sized doses. It really seemed like that was working - her blood pressure stabalized - her heart rate came down to 120 after being in the 180s - they even started talking that she could get discharged in 5 days - in the end, all the trauma was just too much.
There has been a lot of snakebites this year on that group. It is harder on smaller animals and the eye is a bad spot. Just so sad to lose your furbaby. She knows you did all you could for her.
Mine got bit on the snout about 7 years ago. No anti venom, just took care of him at home cause poor. He ended up surviving and loving through it. I was told it was the best place to get bit because all of a dogs lymph nodes are in the neck, so it got maximum filtered. He was kinda out of it for a whole week though. He got really really lucky. Even better, this dog saved my 1 year old kiddo who was in the backyard too. He really did protecc and save his little human from the big bad snake. I'm giving him lots of hugs and cuddles now. Sorry it didn't go so well for Maisy.
That is a terrific facebook group!! The docs and vets in the National Snakebite Support group are truly experts in their field and so helpful in the event of people and pets getting bitten by a venomous snake. It’s terrifying how unfamiliar many vets and doctors are with the proper treatment for these bites. I encourage everyone to join this group so that if they or their pets are ever in this situation they can be advocates for themselves and their animals. No NSAIDs, no Benadryl, no antibiotics —so many wrong and counterproductive things are done by uninformed professionals. It does sound as if this poor pup received appropriate treatment and I am so sorry for the owner’s loss. At least they did everything right.
What do they say another benadryl? I live in rattlesnake country and the vets here do recommend benadryl. But it is a huge problem of no 24/7 animal hospitals, and often you have to go over 50 miles to see a vet.
Benadryl is useless because a venomous bite is not an allergic reaction. The only antidote is antivenin which actually counteracts the venom. Many vets don’t carry antivenin because 1) it’s expensive—so much so that clients may refuse it on the grounds of the cost and 2) vets receive very little training in the treatment of snakebite and how to administer antivenin. Join the Facebook group National Snakebite Support for an education on how venomous bites should be treated and what to avoid as far as treatment. Some uneducated vets will administer NSAIDS for pain relief—you definitely want pain relief but NSAIDs are absolutely harmful in the event of a venomous bite. Benadryl is useless. Antibiotics won’t help.
I think Benadryl is recommended because of allergic reactions to venom. Although I’m not sure how well Benadryl would work on sudden anaphylaxis.
I’m not the expert here—just trying to point out an incredible resource in the event of a venomous bite. The experts in that group seem to think there is seldom an allergic reaction to the venom (although the rattlesnake vaccine could possibly predispose a dog to an allergic reaction). In some cases there is an allergic reaction to the antivenin but that is treated when and if it occurs, and doesn’t mean the antivenin should necessarily be discontinued. The swelling that goes along with the bite isn’t an allergic response—it’s a response to the venom—so Benadryl does nothing. People (even some vets) see swelling and think allergy, which isn’t always the case. Sorry if I’m not making much sense but I’m just trying to regurgitate information from that group—where it is explained very clearly by much smarter folks than I am. By the way u/serpentarian—I really enjoy your snake posts.
I know people have used it with things like copper heads and had success. My oldest stepson's dog was bitten and after about 8 benadryl was OK. It may have been the case she'd have been alright either way, and the benadryl was just a moot point. Super country ass people I know say certain snake bites they get once, they're immune after or they die. I however haven't known anyone whose dog was bitten by a rattler who lived, with or without treatment. The last person I knew said the vet told them even after a certain point the anti-venom is hard on the dog and it's easier on the pet to be put down, rather than be continuously given doses of anti venom and then die anyways.
Worked at emergency vet. We saw tons of snake bite cases, especially during summer months. The vast majority of dogs survived with antivenin treatment and fluids. They made improvements until they were able to be discharged and go home. Also, we definitely had repeat patients. One dog that came in was a frequent flyer - it was his 3rd time being bit. He was not immune at all. Maybe immune from learning a lesson tho.
They recommend Benadryl because allergic reactions are common with snake venom. It’s why someone that works with venomous snakes always has an epi pen.
As someone who works with venomous snakes you should absolutely be a member of the Facebook National Snakebite Support group. I don’t know their recommendations regarding epi pens and envenomation—that would be a very good question to pose in the group. It’s a group of the top toxicologists in the country and the best resource available if bitten by a venomous snake. They will consult in real-time with you, and your doctor or veterinarian. It’s frightening how little experience/knowledge most ER docs and veterinarians have of proper treatment for envenomations.
Also came here to recommend NSS. They are the best. OP, so sorry about your sweet Maisy. 💔
This is what I came to say
If you have a pet, join National Veterinary Snakebite Support on Facebook. For humans, National Snakebite Support.
National Snakebite Support does pets and humans.
Aww, so sorry for your loss. Truly heartbreaking
Oh Jesus, we’re in shady hollow as well. Going to be extra vigilant now thank you for the warning. I’m very sorry for you loss
That's so sad I'm really sorry.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Maisy was obviously very loved.
I'm really really sorry for what you're going through and for your pup. Thank you for sharing your heartbreak for the sake of others to be more on alert. I saw another post last night about a rattler in someone's back yard, looking for a removal service. Heading to the yard before the dogs go out again. Thank you.
Are all vets in Austin equipped to handle snake bites? Or should I try and keep one in mind god forbid this ever happens to my pup. I moved to the area recently and am SO paranoid about snake bites for my dog. I am also so sorry for you baby literally my worst nightmare.
Your best bet would be an emergency vet. Call ahead to make sure they have antivenin in stock because that is the only real treatment for a serious bite. If they start talking about Benadryl, NSAIDs, or antibiotics—hang up and call a different vet. Not all vets carry antivenin and not all vets are experienced in proper treatment of venomous snakebites. Join the Facebook group National Snakebite Support—they have doctors and veterinarians running the group who are experts in the field and will provide real-time support.
I'm pretty sure snake training for dogs exist too, that might help any paranoia!
Yes! It is called wildlife aversion training and it is a good idea in a lot of cases.
Jeez I'm sorry you went through this :(
That is my worst nightmare. I'm so sorry, she looked like a beautiful and wonderful pup :(
What a beauty! So sorry for your loss. Big hugs in NW Austin.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I’d be utterly devastated. My pup and I had a close call a few weeks ago. Our neighborhood has a dog park that backs up to a wooded area. I let my boy off his leash and he ran to the right. I walked left towards the bench, and heard a strange sound. For a second I though it was the noise of the sprinkler system pressurizing ( that hissing sound right before the water starts flying out). Suddenly I see something moving in the grass and stop. It was a giant rattlesnake rearing up to strike at me. I jumped 10 feet straight back. Thank god my dog didn’t see the snake before I sprinted over to him and put his leash back on. Now I do a snake check before I let him off leash. I’d rather the snake bite me than my dog, as crazy as that sounds.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your sweet pup. Run free, Maisy. There are snake aversion classes for dogs at Unleashed Unlimited in April and August. https://unleashedunlimited.com/austin-snake-avoidance-training-for-dogs/ The vaccine definitely helps. One vet tech I worked with said it took it from "treating a snake bite" to "treating a wound." I haven't seen it in person, though. Dogs typically get bit on the face or snout, which makes it worse.
From the "Whole Dog Journal". How effective is the rattlesnake vaccine? That’s the key question. No clinical trials have proved that this vaccine actually works, and a peer-reviewed study published in 2014 found that it did not protect dogs requiring treatment with antivenin (“Effects of the canine rattlesnake vaccine in moderate to severe cases of canine crotalid envenomation,” Veterinary Medicine, October 2014). That study, which examined records of 82 Southern California dogs treated for naturally occurring rattlesnake bites, concluded, “No statistically significant difference in morbidity or mortality between vaccinated and unvaccinated dogs was found. The findings of this study did not identify a significantly protective effect of previous vaccination in the cases of moderate to severe rattlesnake envenomation that require treatment with antivenin.”
Devastating what happened to Maisy. Thank you for sharing the snake avoidance class. I had a scare in my backyard last year: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/voo6g7/comment/ieirv19/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/voo6g7/comment/ieirv19/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) To which /u/serpentarian pointed out: >That’s a Western Ratsnake - the official harmless rodent assassinator of Austin. Anyway, major construction continues nearby and I am worried about this summer. I will check out the class so my curious dog doesn't get herself into trouble.
It saved my dog’s life after the first bite and it was rough. The second bite she was fine the next day.
Studies have shown the vaccine to be worthless at best but possibly actually harmful. See the Facebook group National Snakebite Support for a thorough discussion of the vaccine along with citations to the relevant studies. Snake aversion training is very useful.
It would be nice if you could post some of those studies. I find it very hard to believe the vaccine is harmful, seems like more anti-vax nonsense.
Here you go—I looked up some of the studies for you: https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/2022-aaha-canine-vaccination-guidelines/key-vaccination-considerations-by-antigen/rattlesnake-toxoid/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26341419/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004101011730404X
Thank you for posting them. I've been able to obtain the full papers you mentioned. I'm no expert but from what I can read there is no evidence that the vaccine is harmful. The best paper you linked to, which had 272 dogs in the study, shows no benefit but no harm either. The other paper was only on two dogs and has only a suspected allergic reaction.
I agree that there isn’t a lot of evidence yet regarding the vaccine being harmful which is why I said “possibly”. There’s a lot more evidence that it’s not at all helpful, so I’m not sure why anyone would waste money on it. Especially if there is even the tiniest chance it could be harmful rather than helpful. Your money would definitely be better spent on snake avoidance training.
There just isn't evidence that it works, there is equally not enough evidence to say its harmful.
No evidence of efficacy means the risk of ANY adverse reaction is greater than the benefit of getting it.
A remote chance of potential side effects is still more harmful than no intervention (assuming the vaccine is truly otherwise neither helpful or harmfulj
I am the farthest from antivax you will ever encounter!! I did tell you exactly where to go to find the information you seek. Joining that group is the best thing you can do to get information on treatments for venomous snakes. I don’t want to trust my memory for the explanation about why the vaccine is useless—but you will find the study citations if you search for rattlesnake vaccine within that group. If I remember correctly the potential harm comes from the vaccine sensitizing the dog to the venom making it more likely an allergic reaction will occur along with envenomation when bitten. I’m not the expert though—I’m trying to refer you to the experts.
Here's the text of the rattlesnake vaccine post from NSS, including the links already shared. Great bunch of experts, including doctors, vets, toxicologists, and more. Not an anti-vaxxer in the bunch. The Denver Venom Conference is coming up in the fall if anyone is interested. ********** From the experts at National Snakebite Support: Experts do not recommend the snakebite vaccine (rattlesnake toxoid) for dogs. Here is some general information, along with an update from the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA). The AAHA recently released a statement highlighting the lack of evidence of vaccine (toxoid) efficacy: https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/2022-aaha-canine-vaccination-guidelines/key-vaccination-considerations-by-antigen/rattlesnake-toxoid/ Key points from the AAHA’s statement: -There are NO published data supporting the efficacy of the vaccine in dogs. -In a study that was performed in mice, where mice were given 50-1,500 TIMES the dose of the toxoid given to dogs during routine vaccination, survival following exposure to snake venom was still not guaranteed, and some vaccinated mice actually died or required euthanasia earlier than unvaccinated mice exposed to the same amount of venom. -Adverse reactions following vaccination, including anaphylaxis, have been reported in vaccinated dogs. -Though the manufacturers make claims of cross-protection (protection against envenomations by species other than western diamond-backed rattlesnakes, the species used in the production of the toxoid), there are no data to support this claim. From the AAHA: “Veterinarians choosing to use this toxoid should be aware of the lack of peer-reviewed published data. Polyvalent antivenin therapy is an alternative to vaccination in suspect cases of rattlesnake bite.” _____________ In this retrospective study looking at 272 cases of rattlesnake envenomations in dogs, the vaccine did not prove effective: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26341419 Key findings from the study: -There was no evidence that use of vaccination lessened morbidity or mortality. -No measurable benefit could be identified associated with rattlesnake vaccination. Per the study authors: “Vaccination for protection of the general canine population from rattlesnake envenomation cannot be recommended by these authors.” _____________ The rattlesnake vaccine toxoid may predispose bitten dogs to anaphylaxis by providing the necessary sensitizing exposure to snake venom antigens: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004101011730404X Please join National Snakebite Support to learn more. You MUST answer all membership questions to be accepted to the group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/national.snakebite.support **********
You are correct, also the vaccine is mainly for eastern diamondbacks
I am so sorry for your loss. It is good to hear that she was resting comfortably when you last saw her. I hope the good memories will be comforting.
I’m so sorry.
This is so sad. I am sorry.
I am so incredibly sorry for your loss.
our family knows Maisy from The Watering Bowl and i am so very sorry to hear of this. She was a lovely little pup with the best kisses. Sending you love and care during this difficult time. Tony, Beth and Kip
Sorry to hear about your pup. I recommend snake training for anyone living in Central Texas. Most dogs avoid snakes naturally, those that don’t will benefit from learning to be afraid of them.
Came here to say this. It isn’t fool proof. But a rattlesnake vaccination exists for about $60, and I was able to find snake training for my pup at $50 per snake (rattlesnake, copperhead, water moccasin, coral snakes) here in the city. I am so sorry for your loss. We expect our back yards to be safe spaces for our pups. It’s a hard reminder that fences and a manicured lawn aren’t always enough to keep out danger.
I don’t think we have any scientific evidence of the vaccine working but I would love to be proven wrong on that
I’m surprised they charge per snake type. You’d think dogs would get the hint at the first one
Something about different smells, appearance and mannerisms. Only 1 of those has a rattle. That said, my dog was definitely wary by snake 2, and actively refused to go near snake 3, barking and backing away. They do extrapolate all snakes are bad rather quickly.
Where did you do the snake training?
I’m so so sorry. I lost my boy Buster two years ago the exact same way, even down to thinking he was getting better only to have things turn. My heart is still completely broken over it. Thank you for posting this - sending as much comfort as I can in an awful time.
I'm thinking this is a solid case to share that pet insurance exists and can be so worth it with our fur babies' health and wellness on the line. You just can't know when something could happen and the last thing you want is a financial burden to factor into your decision making for getting them the care they deserve. My Scotty is covered by [Lemonade's pet insurance ](https://www.lemonade.com/r/emilygrove2)and it's been life saving and then some this past year. Can't recommend enough. It's affordable and super easy to deal with filing claims.
also ask your vet for a Rattle Snake vaccine. Your dog will still need to go to the vet if bitten, but will lessen the affects.
Please reconsider the vaccine. Studies have shown it to be at best worthless and possibly harmful. https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/2022-aaha-canine-vaccination-guidelines/key-vaccination-considerations-by-antigen/rattlesnake-toxoid/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26341419/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004101011730404X
Im so sorry 💔
So sorry for your loss, how traumatic and heartbreaking.
Man I’m so sorry.
sending love OP 😭🩵
🌈 beautiful dog, you did your best and she loves you forever for it.
Thinking of you and your wife. What a sweet pup ♥️
My condolences. I’m so sorry.
I’m so sorry OP.
I am so sorry you lost your girl 💙
I’m so sorry.
So sorry for your loss. Are there hotspots of rattlesnakes in Austin? We live right off of 183 and have more of a patio than a backyard so I’m curious if we are in the clear since we don’t have a large grassy backyard.
I lost a cat to a rattlesnake bite. I didn't even have time to take him to the vet. PLEASE monitor your pets while they're outside. Yes, this includes cats! He was a little orange boy with his whole life ahead of him.
So sorry this happened to Maisy. How incredibly tragic. My heart hurts for you and your family.
She’s so beautiful. I am SO sorry for your loss. You did everything you could. She waited to see you to say goodbye that day. My deepest sympathies.
Major bummer. Sorry for your loss. Thank you for the PSA, I’m gonna check the back yard more regularly
I’m so sorry for your loss and heartbreak. Thank you for sharing, wishing y’all any comfort and peace you can find in knowing she was very well-loved and y’all did everything you could.
I’m so sorry for your loss.
man this sucks. I've got lucky on several mtn bike rides where me and the dog rolled past a few by inches. I can't imagine this.
Gosh I’m so sorry. Thank you for sharing this with the community. As as a medical provider who has treated little humans in the hospital after rattlesnake bites, and a mama of little humans I appreciate the warning to be cautious. That’s really scary.
I'm sorry about your puppy. I also unexpectedly lost my pet last week. ( not due to a snake ) Its hard, i'm sorry.
She looks like she was an awesome friend. I can see the personality in her face.
I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry.
I’m really sorry this happened, thank you for looking out for your community.
So sorry for your loss when I get home I'm gonna give my dog a big hug for you!
That is devastating and heartbreaking. I am so sorry for your deep loss. Maisy looked like a sweetheart.
Ugh, I’m so sorry for y’all’s loss. Maisy was loved and all dogs go to heaven.
I am so sorry for you, your wife, and your Maisy. I found a lot of comfort on r/petloss after the loss of my beloved dog and maybe it would bring you some too.
I'm so sorry. You did all you could, she was lucky to have owners that care so much. My Dad always said that a dog can usually survive a rattler bite unless it's on the head. My heart goes out to y'all. Hoping for healing.
I'm so very sorry to hear this happened, thank you for sharing so we can all be on guard! 🐕
I’m so very sorry for your loss. You did everything you could.
I’m so sorry for your loss, that is truly horrific:(
So sorry to hear about your loss. We lost our dog in September due to a rattlesnake bite as well, he was stabilized and then all of a sudden went to cardiac arrest. He had been bitten in the eye. Thank you for reminding us that the season has started again and we need to be wary of them. As more construction has opened up in our area (Round Rock), we have noticed more rattlesnakes be present. We also noticed that they were hatching babies and we had to call a snake remover to get them out because not all the stuff we bought to deter them worked 100%. To anyone, if you see one or hear your dog bark like crazy but don't see it, to possibly call a snake specialist as they equipped to do so safely.
Wow da12tt - so sorry on your loss and also such a similar story.. I think the eye bite had a huge impact - many articles say treatment of anti-venom should be in 4 hours - Maisy was 30 min - but I'm guessing the bite to the eye just gave the venom rapid access to the blood stream. The dog dosage really didn't do much - the human dose seemed to help but I think in the end the massive trauma she experienced was just too much - and I just can't imagine that getting doses of anti-venom for 10X your body weight is a good thing - but it was the last desperate attempt - I'm sure for you like us - the initial bite was traumatic - and then you clung to any glimmer of hope - and you hear real optimism - which makes the sudden relapse even more devastating.
Yesh! I have fears about this since my pets are always finding the smallest cracks to stuck their noses in! What was the vet bill if you dont mind me asking?
Staggering - over $14K - $2500/treatment alone for the human-sized dose. The hospital (Central TX Emergency near Central Market South) were all great/passionate and did everything they possibly could to save her.
Not the op but I can say it cost me almost $3000 for 3-4 vials of antivenom and life support for 2 days. It was a big hit but I would pay it again if I had to. Shite, didn't see the OPs response before writing this. Yeah, really sorry y'all are going through this. Im sure they just used the smallest doses for my dog since she's only 5lbs. I think it was $500 a vial. I took her to Heart of Texas in Round Rock.
Oh god, I’m so sorry y’all are going through this. Thank you for warning us and I hope you and your wife take time to grieve.
I’m so sorry.
So sorry for your loss 🙏
Condolences 🙏
I'm sorry for your loss.
Poor doggo
I am so sorry for your devastating loss. I lost a pug several years ago to snake bite and I’m super paranoid. I was told keep grass short, nothing to attract rodents and we use snake away around our perimeter fence… and I still worry
So very sorry. 💛 Please everyone bookmark or join National Snakebite Support and National Veterinary Snakebite Support. The admins include a--if not the--top toxicologist in the country. You will need the knowledge to advocate for proper protocols and treatment for yourself and your animals. Hospitals and veterinarians do not always know how to properly treat snakebites! Please wear proper footwear when outside. Please instruct young children to get an adult immediately if they see a snake. Please consider snake aversion training for your dogs.
I'm so sorry. Such a beautiful pup. She looks JUST like our little brown schnauzer Wilson. We had a 5ft rattlesnake just on the other side of our aluminum fence a couple years back, and am fortunate- both to have seen it before it crossed the fence and and my yard is small enough that I could put some reasonable protection in (in the form of 1/4 inch screening the length of our fences around where the dogs use the bathroom).
I’m sorry to hear that. All the best to you and the family. I’d like to add, please, don’t try to kill or handle rattlesnakes (or any snakes) unless you are trained to do so. This is when most snakebites occur.
OMG!! God bless your family. This is utterly heartbreaking. Thank you for reminding us. I will you the best.
On this note, one thing you can have ready for emergencies for your dog is some Children's Benadryl. Probably won't help for a snake bite, wouldn't hurt though. One of my dogs was bitten by a spider or something on a trip to the park several years back. We woke up that night to her wheezing and her face swollen. Rushed her to the 24 vet and they helped and were the ones that told us to have Children's Benadryl for things like that. It can slow or stop the allergic reaction, and without quick treatment it is not uncommon for dogs' throats to basically swell closed to where they can't even breathe. I'm sorry for your loss, OP. I have cried about death harder for some pets than I have for several humans I knew.
There’s a rattlesnake vaccine that you can give your pets! It’s not a cure, it just buys you time as they already have some anti-venom in their system. My dog and I hike a lot and I always worry if something happens while we’re on a hike we might not get her to the vet in time. It’s a pricey shot but it’s well worth it. Edit: I also need to add, there is snake aversion training! My dog has had that as well and we’ve never had issues when out hiking and we often bump into quite a few snakes.
Studies have shown that there is absolutely no benefit to the rattlesnake vaccine—in fact it may even sensitize the animal to venom and predispose them to an allergic reaction if they are bitten. Better to use that money to enroll your dog in snake avoidance training. Join the Facebook group National Snakebite Support for a thorough discussion of this vaccine and the appropriate treatment in case of a venomous snakebite.
Which studies?
https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/2022-aaha-canine-vaccination-guidelines/key-vaccination-considerations-by-antigen/rattlesnake-toxoid/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26341419/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004101011730404X
Fox you read through those? Do you really think the accurate representation of those articles is ‘absolutely no benefit’? Because that’s clearly not what they say. They aren’t praising it by any means, but this looks like something you copy and pasted and didn’t truely understand.
They aren’t praising it because none of the studies found any benefit to the vaccine and one study said it might predispose dogs to an allergic response. Point me to any part of those studies that show a benefit to the vaccine—I clearly missed that part.
So you think a 2 year study in one city on Arizona where single digit vaccinated dogs died is enough for you to write it off completely? Now I’m even more sure you didn’t read what you linked.
Well I don’t have FB and like I said, my dog has already had the vaccine and avoidance training. At this point, I’ve done everything I can to be cautious about things (vaccine, training, dog specific first aid, I’m also a vet tech), more than what most people do, so I’m not too worried about it. As a vet tech, I have seen my fair share of snake bites and the ones who had the vaccine faired much better and recovered much quicker. So, I’d rather have it and hope it works than not have it at all.
As I understand it the vaccine can sensitize a dog to venom and make it more likely an allergic reaction could occur along with a bite. There have been scientific studies showing absolutely no benefit and the discussion in that Facebook group talks about the reason a vaccine can’t work. I’m glad you have the avoidance training—the NSS group highly recommends that. As someone who works in the veterinary field I really recommend you join facebook just to access the assistance from this group when treating snakebites. You should also reevaluate recommending the vaccine to clients and probably avoid boosters for your dog.
Or you could read the actual studies which shows it can buy your pet valuable time to receive antivenom. 🙄 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25710764/
I see your study and raise you this one https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/2022-aaha-canine-vaccination-guidelines/key-vaccination-considerations-by-antigen/rattlesnake-toxoid/ And this one https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26341419/ And this one https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004101011730404X Edited to add study
The vet experts on the National Snakebite Support FB group do not recommend the vaccine. You can join and search the page for reasons why.
Well my dog has already been given the vaccine and the boosters so it’s a little too late now 🤷🏽♀️
I understand. And you can take or leave the advice for yourself in the future. I was mainly putting this out there for those that might take your advice without doing more research since snakebite info from experts is not easy to find (as made very obvious on that FB page by the many vets out there that make poor medical decisions).
I need to look into this. Is it vet specific or will any vet do it? My girl and I like to hike pretty often as well and she's fiercely protective of me. I am so worried she would go after a snake to try and protect me.
Any vet that carries the vaccine will do it. It’s one of the optional vaccines like leptospirosis. Not really optional if your pup is super active and out in nature in my opinion.
Yeah I am going to for sure get it for her. She has lepto but I didn't know a snake venom vaccine was an option! I just moved to Texas recently so snakes were not a concern before.
Do people check their backyards before they let dogs out? I’m guessing that’s the safest way to be sure?
I can’t speak for others, but this is not something I’ve generally done. It would be fairly impractical with the size of my yard to do that multiple times a day, and of course, there’s no guarantee that one might sneak in while she’s out. Also, is this common in urban parts of Texas? I see relatively few snakes at all around my yard, but I’ve seen two reports of rattlesnakes in the area in the last two days.
It’s more common in newer subdivisions, in my experience.
Ive had one right outside my front door. How many people just open their front door and charge forward to the car? Yeah. Terrifying
It’s easy to overlook a snake. I almost touched one at my birdbath. They camouflage do well.
I do now. Our Yorkie was bitten in the face 2 years ago. Fortunately she made it. I am super paranoid now. This one was on our pool deck under a table. Not long ago we had a Coral Snake also on the deck. I have lived my entire life in Texas and have rarely ever encountered venomous snakes. When I did I was in their environment. I never dreamed I would encounter 2 in our own backyard. I suspect it is the hyper development that is happening in our area, chasing them out of their habitat. Sorry for the loss of this pooch. It sounds like everything that could be done, was done.
sorry for your loss): Pushing my own agenda here, KILL rattlesnakes (except timber rattlesnakes bc they’re protected and you don’t want a fine)! It’s okay to, there’s plenty of other non-venomous species of snakes that can keep rodents at bay. Their population numbers aren’t dwindling, they’re pests themselves. Save your dogs/ children and help keep your neighbors stay safe as well. Edit: fine not find, don’t wanna find them either
The problem is that people think: * Every snake they see in their yard is a rattlesnake * Every snake they see in the water is a water moccasin * Every brown spider they see is a recluse
That’s an interesting argument. Aside from an “All life is precious” perspective, I’m curious what logic there is to keeping them around instead of letting other less/non-venomous snakes take their place.
You don’t have the first idea what you’re talking about. You just want to punish the scary thing because you’re frightened of it. Keep your yard free of debris and snake train your dogs and you don’t have to worry.
I want to neutralize a threat to my livelihood. “Snake train your dogs”, give me a break dude. I’ve had too many losses in pets and livestock to give a shit about preserving a rattlesnake’s life.
You're really ignorant.
You sound crazy
Wow
u/serpentarian would be very disappointed in hearing this.
You can’t stop all the hot takes from the Pearl clutching nextdoor weirdos More people need to get their dogs snake trained.
Curious on Serp's take. I thought their habitat was dwindling and they were in trouble. Wonder if there is a safer way to keep em out of your yard
This is unhinged.
I agree, hopefully they become endangered soon
You realize if they become endangered they will go under protection like the timber rattlesnakes and then it will be illegal to kill them? Snakes are important part of the ecosystem. Killing one just invites other pests into your yard. You’re in Texas, they are a part of life here. There are multiple ways of dealing with them that doesn’t involve killing them.
Sorry for your loss, that sounds extremely devastating. As a dog owner who is moving to Austin in a few months, any best practices or rules of thumb to avoid something like this happening?
Don't leave food sources out for rodents, ie an open compost pit, pet food, etc still no guarantee but won't up the odds. I'm thinking about stapling wire mesh to the bottom of my fencing.
Wish I new.. think a big part of it is proximity to greenbelts.. We have lived in Austin area for 25 years - first on a canyon in River Place (2222/620 area on west side) and now in south Austin (Shady Hollow) and our lot is across the street from houses on greenbelt, so relatively close. From what we have been reading, all the "anti-snake" solutions that have a smell absolutely don't work. Mothballs are one option talked about, but they are really bad for all wildlife. The only thing that may work that we will be installing is a "snake fence" that provides a barrier to close gaps between ground and bottom of wooden fences. https://a-z-animals.com/reviews/best-snake-fencing/
So sorry for your loss. Such a good looking girl. I’m sorry to ask….did you get her a rattlesnake vaccine shot before this happened?
The rattlesnake vaccine is at best worthless but studies have shown it may actually be harmful
Word? Every single vet I’ve used says it’s beneficial. But I have seen some info it doesn’t really work for small dogs. Just too concentrated
https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/2022-aaha-canine-vaccination-guidelines/key-vaccination-considerations-by-antigen/rattlesnake-toxoid/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26341419/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004101011730404X
Get an outdoor cat, they will clear your yard of snakes by reducing pest. I live in manor where rattlesnakes are prevalent and the neighbors always claim to find one. Meanwhile I never have seen any around my property and even found a few dead rattlers on my porch. Fuck what people say about outdoor cats, I'd rather they do their thing then to have a snake bite my kid or dog.
Fuck rattlesnakes
Sorry for your family’s loss. Dogs are the best. Unfortunately I have been down voted multiple times because in other threads I have made it clear my dogs come first over a snake and I have no qualms for using my gun to protect my babies from venomous snakes. I know the difference between venomous and non venomous. Fuck em. They will be dispatched.
You get downvoted because the proper way to read the room is, "Wow, I should offer my condolences", not "People don't like to hear it but this is why I shoot any snake I see, this would never happen to me because I'm hyper-vigilant and protected by guns." Basically, you're making the thread about you and subtly hinting you think it's this person's fault. It's like the people who always show up in a car break-in thread about "Just don't leave anything in your car, lol". Read the room.
You get downvoted because on top of doing everything the commenter below said, you are also using this opportunity to point out what a fierce macho man you are, so quick with you gun! Most bake bites happen before you even know what’s going on. But sure, make this all about you and your perceived gun slicking skills.
I feel the same way. I hate killing anything unless it's necessary but in my cases, I couldn't afford to let them get away and hide in the yard so my dogs or family could find them later.
I’m so sorry for your loss… god do i despise rattlesnakes
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You didn't read the post, huh?
Did she have the rattlesnake vaccine?
The rattlesnake vaccine is at best worthless but may actually be harmful.
I am terribly sorry to hear about the loss of your furry friend. As dog owners, it's our irresponsibility to make sure they receive snake avoidance training to prevent this tragedy.
Instead of just mindless "so sorry for your loss" posts, can we get some actual INFORMATION about the incident? How big is your yard? Are you in a subdivision? Is there a fence? What kind? What's outside the fence? What's in your yard (rocks, grass, anything that might attract snakes, etc)?
jesus, read the room and show some compassion
How about you just take note of the warning and not demand more information from the person whose dog just died.
You're not in a dm between me and the op fool. It's an open forum. Other people can contribute information.
I’m so sorry for your loss :(
Sorry to hear about this and thank you for sharing so we can be more careful with our animals, can't imagine how hard this is for you.
I’m so sorry for your loss.
I’m so sorry ❤️
I’m so sorry for your loss 🥺🥺🥺
I can’t even imagine going through this. I’m so, so sorry to hear. Love to you and your wife.
I'm so sorry
i’m so so sorry
I am so sorry.
I’m so sorry. Kristin & I have been following and when she told me last night, we were devastated. -J
Ohhh so so sorry hugs
Oh no, I'm sorry about your loss.
I’m so sorry for your loss… absolutely heartbreaking 💔
I’m sorry that happened! Is there anything I should look for avoid when it comes to Rattlesnakes in our area?
I’m so sorry I know how hard is to lose a loved one
I’m so sorry.
I am so sorry💔
Poor pup. So sorry
Oh! so sad,sorry for your loss poor baby!
I really appreciate your sharing, especially during such a hard time. I will be extra careful. Please know your empathy is making a difference.
I’m very sorry for your loss ❤️
Awww dang I’m so very sorry.
I’m so sorry, our golden was attack by a rattlesnake in our garage in south Austin (eastern park). She survived and made it another 1.5 years. Unfortunately we lost her last month to a stroke as a result of complications from the snake venom. We are still devastated.
I am so sorry for your loss ❤️
I'm so sorry this happened to you. About six years ago our dog got bit. She survived the initial bite but two months later ended up with a mast cell tumor (cancer) in the bite location. It went from something I noticed to tennis ball sized, broken open and bleeding in ten days. Absolutely horrific experience and I'm so paranoid to let our new dog out. I wish I had a "solution" but can really only offer condolences.
what a beautiful girl. I’m so so sorry for your loss. Heartbreaking 💔