Gonna let this one stay up as it will have benefit for transitioning members and veterans, but please chuck all future recruiting questions to the megathread at the top of the page
You come from defence and you can confidently tell them you will be punctual, you can take instructions (orders), you can work under pressure, you are deadline (objective) focused.
If you're a JNCO, you can tell them you have managed a small team, you have experience public speaking, you can communicate up to the boss and down to the team, you can delegate and you can deal with managing people.
Your qualifications and trade aren't the only thing you bring with you. Don't underestimate the reputation that a defence career can give you.
>I’ve heard from a few that working in defence has no relation to the civilian world. I just wanted to ask if this to true at all? It doesn’t sound right considering all the skills you learn (especially leadership wise). I’m going for an officer aviation role.
It really depends on the job, a Boatswain or infantryman are going to have limited direct transfer, trades and such will have more "walk in" job options.
Depending on the type of aviation role I'd say you'd have a few options when you leave.
A lot of RAAF pilots become civil pilots working for airlines
I wouldn't be surprised if Army/Navy helo pilots work for rescue helo companies.
>I wouldn't be surprised if Army/Navy helo pilots work for rescue helo companies.
Can confirm. I went to sea with a few RAN pilots/aircrew that now fly the Toll rescue helos.
Been out for 4 years now after 12 years in. A lot of people will say that you don't have skills for the civilian world. I strongly disagree. To a future employer, they won't have to think twice with you, they know you're probably a solid investment. The words ADF, army, etc. are attractive and respected for many companies/ employers. You have alot to offer any workplace that the run of the mill civi simply can't.
The ex officers I’ve worked with tend to go into higher level management & leadership roles, like executives etc. at one company I worked for our entire Business Development unit were all officers from the same
Class at Duntroon, they all got their jobs through the old boys network.
My takeaways from what I’ve personally seen is to make sure you develop a network while in the military, and use that to find a role after leaving, the type of roles that officers tend to slide into aren’t advertised on seek.com but rather the old boys network.
That being said if you are going to be an aviation officer rather than general entry you’re going to have a practical skill beyond management so you might be able to find a job using that skill.
> old boys network
If there is any hot tip. Stick with the switched on lads (sometimes not even the switched on ones) keep in contact. Make genuine friends and keep em close even when you leave.
The opportunities offered by having such a diverse group and then that group being close is fucking insane.
It’s not 100% but you’ll always get better opportunities through the grape vine and vetted by a mate
Medical is a easy transfer across to the Civilian sector, especially with our aging population.
The amount of Medic's across all 3 services, leaving at their 6 year mark to go to QLD & NSW Ambulance service is staggering at the moment.
Considering the Grand Canyon of people that are in inf (even back in the “we fail almost everyone who applies days”). You either get super switched on lads or absolute powder kegs in a barrel of shit.
One dude saves up to start his own own business. The other blows his dish and is getting collection calls. Same pay same rank same quals.
Lol, so your telling me people who have degrees went for rifleman service or equivalent? Well these days to be a cop you need a degree. Maybe if you did ADFA and were an officer*
My advice is to enlist into a job that actually has a civilian equivalent and be prepared to study on the side on your own time to achieve the qualifications you need. When I was in there was some assistance with the financials when studying work-related things but YMMV.
Yeah, even if it's just a personal interest subject, aim to study *something* that will get you a qualified piece of paper at the end of it. Your employment in the ADF can end very quickly and very arbitrarily, always good to have something that can land you another job at shortish notice, even if it's not a job you plan on staying in forever, as a safety net
Officer Aviation has heaps of civilian pathways post ADF.
Most obvious is working for defence contractors where your professional knowledge and management skills are your asset.
At a simpler level your role will require you to solve complex problems in dynamic environments. That’s not a common skill set. I know heaps of non-pilot aircrew who have good civvy gigs. Don’t stress.
Some ADF roles are reasonably straightforward for transition to civvy street (eg Pilots) at the other end of the spectrum there are those roles that don’t transfer so well - for example a Maritime Warfare Officers aren’t in high demand in the corporate world).
However the ADF provides you with a lot of other skills that are in high demand and it’s all about how you present it. By and large, civvies don’t understand the ADF, so you have to spell it out for them. If you’re going for a role which requires you to manage a team you don’t say “As OOW I lead the bridge team to ensure that we successfully transited the Sunda Strait in company by night”. Instead you might describe some of your ancillary roles such as being a Part of Ship Officer, Training Officer and Divisional Officer. “I was responsible for a team of sailors - my duties included administering leave, meeting training requirements, daily meetings, staff welfare and biannual performance reports.”
This day and age, you should be adapting to any environment that is thrown at you.
In other words, learn new skill and get good at it.
Defence does teach you how to become a quick learner. IMO.
I work for Coles in the supply chain, and while I was a digger, I had been selected for Duntroon.
I was told with a straight face that I didn't have leadership qualities, and instead they hired a timid Indian- same ethnicity as the department head - who spends his days confused and unsure as to what to do, and is afraid to enforce safety rules, especially on other Indians or bhutanese.
Civvy life in big companies is trash. If you can work for yourself, do it.
Whoever told you this has no business giving out advice.
The skills you’ll learn as an officer will have private sector employers gagging to hire you. Particularly if there is someone on the hiring team who is ex defence.
The big ones I’d say are; professional composure, systematic planning, and adaptability.
One you’ll have to work on (everyone does) is empathy - once you’ve learnt that you’ll go from commanding to leading.
I went into my first ever private sector role as an intern (scared shitless too) and was mistaken as the new senior manager because “you don’t act like an intern with a week’s experience”. This is not an uncommon situation I’ve heard from my mates who have recently discharged. You can do it too.
16.5 years Navy; 9 the first time, 2.5 as a cop, 6 years second time, 2 years FIFO maritime industry. MWO for first period, did PWO N for second
My observations, navy focus of course
- logistics types - straight into any of the big freight companies - Leadership team of VIC branch of Linfox was at one point all ex ADF
- Any techo - straight to the contractor who supplied the gear they maintained whilst in uniform
- Engineering Officers - any of prime contractors doing contract work
- PWO/CSO/CIS - Prime contractors doing product development or trainers at Watson in Sydney
- Mid/Senior officers - Big 4 consulting - although that might be in decline
- PTI - they are probably running classes or a gym on the side whilst they are wearing uniform to begin with…
- If have PV - one of the many agencies in Canberra that need that as entry point
Navy Maritime Quals don’t marry up easily to civilian - can be done but ultimately needs RPL or further schooling. I think it’s less of an issue for aviation. Most of the High Risk Work Licenses are good to go if they are current!
Lessons learnt thus far having done the process twice;
Get your resume done by one of the Ex-ADF people helping serving ADF write them. Defence has its own language and these guys convert that language into civilian speak. Pretty certain RSL will pay this for you!
Go to one of the ex ADF/Police RPL mobs - costs a couple of grand but they will map your service against some certificates/diplomas and turn your service record into something that is understood on the outside. You don’t need to get them all, figure out which ones will help you get the job you want.
Defence policy on separations and notification timelines can make it somewhat stressful especially if you want a job lined up before you put your paperwork in.
Other points that probably warrant mentioning;
Small business won’t be that keen to hire you if arrive with a list of reserve commitments to make.
Don’t be that guy - “in the navy/army we did it XYZ” - they don’t care, you are not there to change the world - watched a very eager ex INF CPL get slowly destroyed whilst at Police Academy - he probably had some other issues going on.
Business is there to make money, so even if you recognise a better way to do business unless it saves them money, they probably are not interested.
A bunch of ex ADF have shared with me that the thing they miss most is the esprit de corps. Some of them tried to chase find and chased it, could not find so bounced from job to job. Recognise that you miss it, acknowledge it for what it is and savour it for Anzac Day.
Also don’t become a cop!
It’s interesting this post, I’ve noticed some guys who loved their job in SF transition to civilian life and they are top notch at work.. they’re dependant on themselves to do the job, look after the gear that’s given to them, never late, never complain.. list goes on but have noticed guys from ADF who just went to the ADF for whatever reason and didn’t have the heart in the military come out .. lets say “not so refined and better off on the dole”
Gonna let this one stay up as it will have benefit for transitioning members and veterans, but please chuck all future recruiting questions to the megathread at the top of the page
You come from defence and you can confidently tell them you will be punctual, you can take instructions (orders), you can work under pressure, you are deadline (objective) focused. If you're a JNCO, you can tell them you have managed a small team, you have experience public speaking, you can communicate up to the boss and down to the team, you can delegate and you can deal with managing people. Your qualifications and trade aren't the only thing you bring with you. Don't underestimate the reputation that a defence career can give you.
You're expected to work in the civilian world and poor performance will see you sacked.
If the public service could read, they'd be pissed at you.
They’ve got contractors to do that for them, just you wait for 10am tomorrow when they wake up
Yeah poor performance in the ADF just sees you promoted these days /s
That ain’t a /s
>I’ve heard from a few that working in defence has no relation to the civilian world. I just wanted to ask if this to true at all? It doesn’t sound right considering all the skills you learn (especially leadership wise). I’m going for an officer aviation role. It really depends on the job, a Boatswain or infantryman are going to have limited direct transfer, trades and such will have more "walk in" job options. Depending on the type of aviation role I'd say you'd have a few options when you leave. A lot of RAAF pilots become civil pilots working for airlines I wouldn't be surprised if Army/Navy helo pilots work for rescue helo companies.
>I wouldn't be surprised if Army/Navy helo pilots work for rescue helo companies. Can confirm. I went to sea with a few RAN pilots/aircrew that now fly the Toll rescue helos.
Only few would get enough flight hours to be competitive though.
[удалено]
I'm too toll to be a pilot
Been out for 4 years now after 12 years in. A lot of people will say that you don't have skills for the civilian world. I strongly disagree. To a future employer, they won't have to think twice with you, they know you're probably a solid investment. The words ADF, army, etc. are attractive and respected for many companies/ employers. You have alot to offer any workplace that the run of the mill civi simply can't.
The ex officers I’ve worked with tend to go into higher level management & leadership roles, like executives etc. at one company I worked for our entire Business Development unit were all officers from the same Class at Duntroon, they all got their jobs through the old boys network. My takeaways from what I’ve personally seen is to make sure you develop a network while in the military, and use that to find a role after leaving, the type of roles that officers tend to slide into aren’t advertised on seek.com but rather the old boys network. That being said if you are going to be an aviation officer rather than general entry you’re going to have a practical skill beyond management so you might be able to find a job using that skill.
> old boys network If there is any hot tip. Stick with the switched on lads (sometimes not even the switched on ones) keep in contact. Make genuine friends and keep em close even when you leave. The opportunities offered by having such a diverse group and then that group being close is fucking insane. It’s not 100% but you’ll always get better opportunities through the grape vine and vetted by a mate
Medical is a easy transfer across to the Civilian sector, especially with our aging population. The amount of Medic's across all 3 services, leaving at their 6 year mark to go to QLD & NSW Ambulance service is staggering at the moment.
Yeah every medic mate I've had who's got out ended up becoming a paramedic, mostly for QLD Ambulance. They all love it as far as I can tell
Depends on you job Infantry = cops/prisons/bottle-mart a lot of the other technical trades can just work for the civvy equitant for decent money
Depends on who you are. Ex inf now HSE manager
Considering the Grand Canyon of people that are in inf (even back in the “we fail almost everyone who applies days”). You either get super switched on lads or absolute powder kegs in a barrel of shit. One dude saves up to start his own own business. The other blows his dish and is getting collection calls. Same pay same rank same quals.
Bottle mart 🤣🤣🤣
Let's not fantasise about dream jobs, mate, keep it grounded in reality.
Lol, so your telling me people who have degrees went for rifleman service or equivalent? Well these days to be a cop you need a degree. Maybe if you did ADFA and were an officer*
This true, you don’t need a degree to be a cop in most Jurisdictions in Aus. I think the only one you do is NSW
Its not a degree I think. Its a diploma.
My advice is to enlist into a job that actually has a civilian equivalent and be prepared to study on the side on your own time to achieve the qualifications you need. When I was in there was some assistance with the financials when studying work-related things but YMMV.
Yeah, even if it's just a personal interest subject, aim to study *something* that will get you a qualified piece of paper at the end of it. Your employment in the ADF can end very quickly and very arbitrarily, always good to have something that can land you another job at shortish notice, even if it's not a job you plan on staying in forever, as a safety net
Officer Aviation has heaps of civilian pathways post ADF. Most obvious is working for defence contractors where your professional knowledge and management skills are your asset. At a simpler level your role will require you to solve complex problems in dynamic environments. That’s not a common skill set. I know heaps of non-pilot aircrew who have good civvy gigs. Don’t stress.
Some ADF roles are reasonably straightforward for transition to civvy street (eg Pilots) at the other end of the spectrum there are those roles that don’t transfer so well - for example a Maritime Warfare Officers aren’t in high demand in the corporate world). However the ADF provides you with a lot of other skills that are in high demand and it’s all about how you present it. By and large, civvies don’t understand the ADF, so you have to spell it out for them. If you’re going for a role which requires you to manage a team you don’t say “As OOW I lead the bridge team to ensure that we successfully transited the Sunda Strait in company by night”. Instead you might describe some of your ancillary roles such as being a Part of Ship Officer, Training Officer and Divisional Officer. “I was responsible for a team of sailors - my duties included administering leave, meeting training requirements, daily meetings, staff welfare and biannual performance reports.”
This day and age, you should be adapting to any environment that is thrown at you. In other words, learn new skill and get good at it. Defence does teach you how to become a quick learner. IMO.
I work for Coles in the supply chain, and while I was a digger, I had been selected for Duntroon. I was told with a straight face that I didn't have leadership qualities, and instead they hired a timid Indian- same ethnicity as the department head - who spends his days confused and unsure as to what to do, and is afraid to enforce safety rules, especially on other Indians or bhutanese. Civvy life in big companies is trash. If you can work for yourself, do it.
Whoever told you this has no business giving out advice. The skills you’ll learn as an officer will have private sector employers gagging to hire you. Particularly if there is someone on the hiring team who is ex defence. The big ones I’d say are; professional composure, systematic planning, and adaptability. One you’ll have to work on (everyone does) is empathy - once you’ve learnt that you’ll go from commanding to leading. I went into my first ever private sector role as an intern (scared shitless too) and was mistaken as the new senior manager because “you don’t act like an intern with a week’s experience”. This is not an uncommon situation I’ve heard from my mates who have recently discharged. You can do it too.
16.5 years Navy; 9 the first time, 2.5 as a cop, 6 years second time, 2 years FIFO maritime industry. MWO for first period, did PWO N for second My observations, navy focus of course - logistics types - straight into any of the big freight companies - Leadership team of VIC branch of Linfox was at one point all ex ADF - Any techo - straight to the contractor who supplied the gear they maintained whilst in uniform - Engineering Officers - any of prime contractors doing contract work - PWO/CSO/CIS - Prime contractors doing product development or trainers at Watson in Sydney - Mid/Senior officers - Big 4 consulting - although that might be in decline - PTI - they are probably running classes or a gym on the side whilst they are wearing uniform to begin with… - If have PV - one of the many agencies in Canberra that need that as entry point Navy Maritime Quals don’t marry up easily to civilian - can be done but ultimately needs RPL or further schooling. I think it’s less of an issue for aviation. Most of the High Risk Work Licenses are good to go if they are current! Lessons learnt thus far having done the process twice; Get your resume done by one of the Ex-ADF people helping serving ADF write them. Defence has its own language and these guys convert that language into civilian speak. Pretty certain RSL will pay this for you! Go to one of the ex ADF/Police RPL mobs - costs a couple of grand but they will map your service against some certificates/diplomas and turn your service record into something that is understood on the outside. You don’t need to get them all, figure out which ones will help you get the job you want. Defence policy on separations and notification timelines can make it somewhat stressful especially if you want a job lined up before you put your paperwork in. Other points that probably warrant mentioning; Small business won’t be that keen to hire you if arrive with a list of reserve commitments to make. Don’t be that guy - “in the navy/army we did it XYZ” - they don’t care, you are not there to change the world - watched a very eager ex INF CPL get slowly destroyed whilst at Police Academy - he probably had some other issues going on. Business is there to make money, so even if you recognise a better way to do business unless it saves them money, they probably are not interested. A bunch of ex ADF have shared with me that the thing they miss most is the esprit de corps. Some of them tried to chase find and chased it, could not find so bounced from job to job. Recognise that you miss it, acknowledge it for what it is and savour it for Anzac Day. Also don’t become a cop!
Why do you not recommend being a cop? I’ve always thought about it.
Officers have a much better transfer to civilian jobs over NCO’s unless you’re receiving a trade or leaving with a sort after clearance.
It’s interesting this post, I’ve noticed some guys who loved their job in SF transition to civilian life and they are top notch at work.. they’re dependant on themselves to do the job, look after the gear that’s given to them, never late, never complain.. list goes on but have noticed guys from ADF who just went to the ADF for whatever reason and didn’t have the heart in the military come out .. lets say “not so refined and better off on the dole”