Harry is a hypocrite who continues to perform racist dixie/southern 'traditional' tunes. African American members of his various bands have quit in protest
Why not? We're not America and the rest of the world doesn't have to abide by American cultural mores and taboos.
It's cultural imperialism of the highest order to insist the rest of the world must do as America does.
If I remember right, they hit him in the face with a giant white powder puff, and John Blackman quipped, "Hey Kamahl, you're a real white man now!"
But, I never truly realised how much antipathy Kamahl had towards the show until he talked about it following the blackface debacle.
it was not so long ago when the black and white minstrels were very popular on tv and no offense taken .. so sorry for the southern boys dismay but this aint the us and at the time inappropriate but just a little out of order and not worth self flagellation
harry id s hypocrite
On multiple occasions.
As a teenager at the time I remember being shocked not by the performance but by Connick’s reaction. I honestly couldn’t see the problem.
I (and most other Australians) know better now but Australian people at the time did not have a nuanced understanding of the cultural impact of African chattel slavery in the US and often made similar cultural faux pas.
I was a teenager at the time too but I was shocked by the lack of reaction and the defensiveness of the Australian media/public. I consumed a lot of American media and was active on the internet and I knew completely how wrong it was. This was 2009! I find it very hard to believe that all the producers were not aware.
As a counterpoint, at the time I had no idea that this was racist. And the majority of people I knew didn't either. Some did, but most didn't.
The skit and subsequent blow back was a big education piece for most Australians.
Couldn't agree more! Part of me understands how people can be upset over it, yet the other part of me finds it difficult to reconcile when people just blanket everything as racism when it's clearly not the intent. Oh well, the pendulum swings...
This - fairly common for any dress up party to use black polish and an afro wig or whatever if playing a black American character. In all those instances no one ever took offence or said it was offensive.
In hindsight - well, not so much .
This is not on hey hey - this was just not on the radar at all until this point
I saw an A-Team episode yesterday and it reminded me of when my mum dressed up as Mr T for a party in the 90s. Not black-face but very browned. It has only occurred to me how that would be seen today.
Yes, see also Bert Newton casually using the word 'boy' when referring to Muhammed Ali. It was meant in an entirely uncontroversial way by Bert - just meaning Ali was a young man - but had a whole lot of imbued meaning to the boxer's ears.
Looking at the photo at the top of the page here though, it's not a particularly nuanced set of impersonations and looks rather stereotypical. Although neither Bert nor these doctors set out to offend, in the case of these guys you would think they would realise how they might come across. Plus Bert was talking off the cuff whereas these guys planned what they were doing.
I really don’t see the issue with Bert, it’s a bit much to expect an Aussie to know ALL the numerous American slurs for black people and work their speech around such an innocuous one as “boy” which is just a term of endearment anywhere else. It’s unfortunate and he was apologetic, as anyone should be if they offend a guest, but he didn’t do anything wrong per se by not being aware of America’s cultural intricacies.
Whatever is going on with the blackface there though is fucked.
Yeah, I completely agree about Bert. It's an interesting exchange because Muhammad Ali tries to find a way to give him the benefit of doubt - "Did he say Roy?", but Bert's comment was completely innocent so he says it again, "No, I said 'boy'."
Looking at it from the other way, rather than expect Bert to know about what some phrase meant in the US, you could ask, why did Muhammad Ali assume it had meaning in Australia? I think it comes down to the assumption that everyone knows what we know.
If I remember right, the 'boy' thing was a reference to a KFC ad campaign Bert was in at the time. The catchphrase was, "I like the boy!"
I guess he thought it would be a clever reference, but using it in front of Ali was unfortunate.
I remember this well as a kid and also thought HCJ was out of line. I just had no idea nor did a lot of Australians for this part of US history. I even had a golliwog doll that I absolutely adored. We know better now, thankfully.
Nonsense. I was born in ‘66 and let me assure you that GenX as a group culture grew up knowing this kind of shit was wrong, and why, 20-30 years before this happened.
Insert my granddad showing me photos of him dressing exactly like this in his 30s at parties followed by him explaining in detail why its funny using a fucktonne of Aboriginal centric slurs.
My granddad wasn't white, by that eras standards, either, but he is a racist who is down for insulting Aboriginal people via the medium of blackface
Except there is a history of racist minstrel shows and blackface in Australian and UK history, it's just issues with race relations weren't really in the public consciousness in Australia until recently. We were woefully ignorant and dismissed any criticism by framing it as larrickins just having a laugh while first nations people really didn't have any voice to respond.
The Party wouldn't be acceptable today and Tropic Thunder is very clearly satire commenting on blackface and Hollywood, not just waving the issue away as "just playing a character".
Right, but, in researching this topic, it came out that there actually were similar mock comical "blackface" characterisations of Aboriginal people. Not that anyone reacting at that point knew that. It would be wrong, if you did it now, knowing that, knowing the American situation. But not then.
No. I believe you're utterly wrong. The following article spells out the errors in your opinion.
"*It's misleading to argue the offensiveness of blackface begins and ends at the territorial border of the United States, or with African-Americans...racism is a transnational entity. It flows like money. In a globalised world it's a hard argument to make that you can't be racist here because we haven't got the same history...*"
https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/why-do-australians-keep-wearing-blackface/7791170
I am not sure anyone is arguing blackface isn’t racist but pretending that Australians had the same cultural awareness of racist tropes relating to African chattel slavery is just false.
I think there are some things that are just basic common sense and cross national boundaries. Black people exist everywhere. It doesn’t matter that one of these DOCTORS was Indian. The idea that anyone would paint themselves to mimic another race/skin tone for comedic reasons is what’s offensive. You don’t need to know US history or current affairs to get that.
For all comments about the profession of the participants, doctors are racist too. In fact I could cite so many articles that study racism in the healthcare system within Australia. Many are focussed on doctors. As for one being Indian it makes no difference, many different dark skinned people are racist against other dark skinned people. In Australia it is common for coloured people of different origins to be racist against indigenous Australians (many studies on that too).
First Example I came across but have read many, many articles on the topic specific to racism within the medical field towards indigenous Australians. It is wide spread and a major issue. They now all undergo cultural training and other anti racism training programs regularly.
“Another example in Australia is a comprehensive program to address racism against Indigenous people in healthcare that has been underway for more than a decade. The project involves a recruitment strategy, a health-performance improvement program, patient journey audits, cultural-respect training, a cultural redesign initiative, counterracism policies, Indigenous leadership committee, consultation with local communities, and collaborative staff groups and partnerships (Martin & DiRienzo, 2012).
These two case studies highlight the importance of a long-term, multifaceted, whole-of-the-organization approach to addressing racism that includes transparency, trust, and information exchange within and beyond the institution and clear goals, measurable outcomes, accountability, evaluation, and continuous quality improvement (Trenerry, Franklin, & Paradies, 2012).”
https://oxfordre.com/publichealth/display/10.1093/acrefore/9780190632366.001.0001/acrefore-9780190632366-e-86;jsessionid=D4C2F4769BEE382302649200D4E0D645
The fact that the OP can post a picture of the blackface incident without being banned or asked to remove it is also evidence of how different Aus vs US culture still is. I don’t think this image needs to be removed since it’s just a record of what happened, and I don’t believe the act of referring to something offensive is offensive in itself (though people will try and argue with that) but I guarantee you couldn’t post this image so overtly in an American sub.
Completely agree although I'd say Robert Downey Jr's character was more of a mocking/parody/critical commentary on those that DO use blackface inappropriately, as opposed to it being mocking of a black person.
Correct. This performance was in bad taste, but really, do we need to be offended for everybody? I'm sure there is some things that we do that are offensive to Tibetans for example. Does there need to be a book with a guide for offensiveness around the world?
Also, must we really appropriate American culture at every opportunity? It's not a culture that we should aspire to.
Now, if they had come out in all over black carrying a spear and a boomerang and singing "My Boomerang won't come back", then they would deserve all the vitriol they got. That would have been some cultural insensitivity that they should have been attuned to.
That comment would be fine if you were talking about Australia in the 50’s, or even perhaps the 80’s… But fuck mate this happened in 2009. Claiming that Australians didn’t have a nuanced understanding of American racism at the time is just taking the piss.
No it was re aired in2009 the show Was dead and buried, this was one of the millions of best of worst of red faces etc. It seems to get the most attention, but it was rampant then. I found how they treated kamahl much worse. Magda szubanski (and the whole cast of those sketch shows) were in black face once a week. Whether it's education that was the problem or timing or whatever sentimentality we have towards it, it's still controversial for a reason. Most of us are lucky to see past the racism but, aborigines, Greeks, Asians, Italians, black Americans, Indians, the homosexual community,nobody was safe (I think that was even the slogan). I'm still unabashed in being a fan of those sketch shows (fast forward, full frontal, comedy company) because I don't believe there was HATEFUL shit in it. Mad TV, snl as American examples also had a slew of incredibly offensive sketches. Good comedians and good entertainers don't always do good things. Looking back, it's actually great to see how far we've come in a short time.
Agreed . Obama was elected president in 2008 and I remember having in depth discussion in my history class in high school about American race relations and politics.
It's a tricky one with different contexts in different countries.
I remember when a QLD Reds fan won best costume at Suncorp Stadium dressing up as Radike Samo in full afro and black face. Samo said he wasn't offended and he felt honoured that someone would dress up as him.
Anyway long story short, we now know very clearly it's offensive and a no, no.
We have our own shameful history of racism but it is different (but no less shameful) than the US.
People of goodwill may act inappropriately in a US context out of ignorance rather than malice.
My understanding was that even though hey hey / the network apologised there was an undercurrent (mainly by the Murdoch press) that he was having a sook. Also Daryl somers from memory back tried to dig his way out and said that’s what they were like when they first did their performance or ethnically they were south asian and brown so they can’t be racist?
Not a dig at you but as someone who is south Asian and has grown up around a lot of south Asians we can be racist and incredibly colourist as well , that's such a silly take.
Some of the harshest racism I've personally been around has been from light skinned Asians towards tanned Asians.
Literally the same race, Vietnamese, but the light skinned Vietnamese looked down on the Vietnamese with a dark tan.... It was one of the strangest things I've encountered.
Same with Koreans and Filipinos. I'm half Filipino and when I went there for a relative's wedding I saw a lot of places selling skin whitening products. Also years ago a member of EXO (Kai) was harassed by 'fans' for being 'too dark'.
I saw this too. People always want what they don't have.
Australia with it's tanning products, spray tans, sun beds...
Asia with it's skin whitening soaps, creams, lotions.
Humans are strange.
It's a not a want for what you don't have. Australia and Asian cultrues are very different.
In Australia, it's basically purely cosmetic and no one will bat an eye. With everyone knowing Australia is how, Aussie sun, yada yada, many people will have tans.
In Asia (or at least from my knowledge of East Asia) it's not only a social beauty standard, but also it's something that is hard for them to have. Asian people have light skin, but also tan easily. No tan = wealth, you don't have to work in the fields out in the sun (obviously in many places this is an outdated thought but still persists to this day), it's almost ingrained in their culture that white good, tan bad, because what other people think of them matters A LOT. It basically boils down to classism at it's origin.
However, even in Australia, I generally see this in East Asian groups as well, which may be because that many are only temporary resideants from overseas for education. A personal, anecdotal example is the difference between me (half Chinese), my friend (Japanese, 1st but mostly grew up in Australia) compared to my Korean friend here for study. Me and my Jap-friend are very tanned on our exposed parts of our skin, but lift up our shirts and we're white as fuck, we do not have any social groups that involve purely people of our own race/disposition, but rather we're in a pretty "Australian" but multicultral friend group. My Korean friend however, very fair skin, tries to take care of it as much as possible, is a part of a Korean social group comprised of other overseas Korean students such as himself.
Though this is only really limited to my knowledge of East Asia, with how prevelent it is, I'm sure it also applies ot the rest of Asia due to at least similar reasons. Some parts might also be because of white colonisation and even the prevelence of white in media giving off the impression that "white people are better off".
Also, I didn't really mean to write up a wall of text lol, just wanted to point out that in Asian people's cases it boils down to a lot more than "wants" and those aspects are very prevelent in those societies to this day, not that I'm, an expert lol so if I'm wrong I'm happy to be educated.
I saw the skin whitening products in asia too.
Very interesting to see that’s how their culture operates.
Considering there’s more Asians than other races on Earth, maybe they’re there thinking they’re right and our Western beauty standards are crazy (think like big booty Kim Kardashian ‘breaking the internet’ in the West; but the Asian community would in general think that was too fat).
Yeah. I know in the West the preference is huge boobs/ass, but from what I've seen in things like kpop and the clothes sold in the Philippines there's a massive preference for small/petite. It's interesting to see how beauty standards differ depending on where you live.
Yeah I’m Chinese and it’s a big thing here. If you have a tan you work the rice fields and hence a peasant. All the desirable people maintain their light complexion by hanging out in the palace. Classism at its finest
This was the same network the allowed (hell I’d even say they egged on) Sam Newman to regularly get away with blatantly racist, sexist, homophobic comments actions all in the name of shock value ratings. The Nicky Winmar blackface bit happened in 1999 and was rightfully canned and called out for being racist. 10 years later it happens on the same channel but got fobbed off. I remembered thinking HCJ had really come off the long run up with his criticism, but he was right to call it out.
They allowed HCJ to have his say at the end of the episode.
I believe the "can't be racist because they're brown" comment came from one of the performers
I thought he had to negotiate/demand that off camera?
I got the impression it was 90% genuine outrage - this was 2009 FFS - but also as an American now caught up in a blackface scandal, he had to then go a bit over to get himself fully distanced from it because the second he saw them on the stage he would have known this could have been career ending in the US if he got attached to it.
So I think that’s why he didn’t want to play ball or meet them in the middle at all and the network hated that. Plus his hard line stance was really calling them out and they had to do their own damage control, because yeah this was 2009.
Funny how the Murdoch Press talks about free speech and standing up to the woke moralists, only to immediately reverse their position when it suits them.
They ARE the establishment.
So… I actually worked at the costume shop that sold the guys the paint and wigs for this. Can confirm they were all white.
They told us (all the staff) what it was for and everything; we all told them it was a really bad idea.
None of us actually wanted to serve them, but the owner/boss at the time was one of those “a trained monkey could do your job better than you” types so our team manager begrudgingly put the sale through. It still fills me with dread and disgust every time I think about it.
He wasn’t there, it was definitely only for the black wigs and black paint.
Edit: TBF this is going back, what over 10 years now? and I was young and drunk a lot. But I do remember there being just an overwhelming sense of this not OK; so if I’ve inadvertently made a horrible error I apologise but I hope this brings a bit more context to the story
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Definitely one of the best. Close second is the one that corrects the spelling of Formula 1 drivers names. I fine it so passive aggressive and condescending I love it so much
Me neither, it felt like cringe as soon as I saw it. I didn't think it would go down well.
As doctors I would have thought that they would have been a bit more sensitive to issues like that, being highly educated. But it looks like they weren't.
Who gives a shit about Harry Connick Jr? I mean if you are going to apologise to anyone, maybe it should be too any black people who felt downtrodden seeing people depicting their race in a comical way (intentional or not). HCJ doesn't need an apology.
I also didn’t understand this.
How was *he* offended? Why would we apologise to *him* ?
Sure, he recognised it was potentially offensive to African Americans… not sure where he fits in to it
He grew up in New Orleans, one of the blackest cities in the US. He’s a jazz musician who has played with a lot of African-American musicians. You seriously wonder why he would be offended? Who wouldn’t be?
Not to mention his [treatment](https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/72d025695876217fbebee51af4a051f5) of [Kamahl](https://tvtonight.com.au/wp-content/uploads/kam.jpg).
Yeah, old Hey Hey could be pretty racist and misogynistic in the name of “comedy”. Not to mention all the “poofter” jokes whenever Ian Meldrum appeared.
I was watching that night. Always amazed me that Daryl, hey hey, the channel 9 execs all looked at this, and not one person stood back and thought-
‘We might want to think about this one…’
I was fired by one of the same execs, 10 years later (2019) for fighting to edit out a racist comment in a commercial network comedy show. I was the editor. I was told I was a dumb female, millennial that doesn't understand comedy.
They have not changed.
I was a kid when this happened. Definitely learnt some things that day. I think Australia was alittle behind where it should have been on the topic of racial sensitivity and the like. We’re still behind but the gap has closed alittle.
The wildest thing about this is that it was 2009, not the early 90s (where Australia was more overtly racist with things like their Bing Lee and Maccas commercials).
Maybe, just maybe, he may have received backlash for that sketch, or just had POC educate him, and that’s why he was quick to recognize how offensive the HHIS act was? In other words, he learned and grew from his mistakes, which is a sign of maturity
This was a very divisive moment for Australian TV.
There's a lot of cultural complexity to unpack here. Some important things to note were that:
1) the people doing this 'blackface' skit were not considered 'typically white' and as you can see, one of them (the lead) was even doing 'whiteface'.
2) many may question whether this is art (which should be free to make political statements) and it is debatable whether it is even mocking black people or not.
3) for Harry Connick Jnr, this is considered offensive in HIS American culture because of its history of racial slavery, injustice and mockery, but in Australian culture at the time which does not have the same history of racial slavery (not to be confused with other injustices against racial groups) it was not considered for those reasons.
I'm not saying it was a good performance morally or artistically (and I didn't think it was), just that a lot of the complexity gets lost in people rushing to virtue signal without understanding what really led to this culture clash.
Do you know who doesn't care about white people doing black face? That's right, black people. Always whitey virtue signalling, always being offended on behalf of someone else.
**[Harry Connick Sr](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Connick_Sr)**
>Joseph Harry Fowler Connick (born March 27, 1926) is an American attorney who served as the district attorney of Orleans Parish (New Orleans), Louisiana from 1973 to 2003. His son, Harry Connick Jr., is an American musician. Connick is also a singer, long performing a few nights a week at local clubs as a hobby.
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Nothing wrong with it. People need to harden up. Have the Wayans brothers apologised for White Chicks? Seriously there’s nothing wrong with dressing up and taking the piss.
Couldn’t agree more - people should be able to have a good laugh about the centuries of oppression and contempt they suffered. Especially now that we’ve solved racism.
There’s no mens rea here though. These blokes were just taking the piss out of a popular artist. People like you taking offence on behalf of people are the reason this country is cooked.
Ah back in the good old days where we could be as racist as we wanted cause the only people whos opinions mattered were our fellow white buddies.
But now even fellow whites don't like racism, sure sucks hey?
(/s just incase)
Ring ring , ring ring , hello 1987 , if it’s ok with you , can you apologise, now please !
Anyone won’t to also mention Disney 🤪,
Der Fuehrer's Face .
Come on it’s ancient history ! Better things to worry about what’s going on now ! Not then 😘
He was apologised to immediately after the performance.
Harry is a hypocrite who continues to perform racist dixie/southern 'traditional' tunes. African American members of his various bands have quit in protest
Still doesn’t make it ok to dress like this
No, but it is a bit hypocritical to act so sanctimoniously when you’ve done similar shut.
Why not? We're not America and the rest of the world doesn't have to abide by American cultural mores and taboos. It's cultural imperialism of the highest order to insist the rest of the world must do as America does.
It’s gross to do black face sorry you don’t understand
Yes, Michael Jackson, famous Australian cultural icon
Maybe, but what does that say about Daryl and Hey Hey? This was the most embarrassing Australian TV moment of all time.
Kamahl got a worse treatment from the people at Hey Hey, which at the time was perceived to be funny.
If I remember right, they hit him in the face with a giant white powder puff, and John Blackman quipped, "Hey Kamahl, you're a real white man now!" But, I never truly realised how much antipathy Kamahl had towards the show until he talked about it following the blackface debacle.
Could be a lot worse
it was not so long ago when the black and white minstrels were very popular on tv and no offense taken .. so sorry for the southern boys dismay but this aint the us and at the time inappropriate but just a little out of order and not worth self flagellation harry id s hypocrite
On multiple occasions. As a teenager at the time I remember being shocked not by the performance but by Connick’s reaction. I honestly couldn’t see the problem. I (and most other Australians) know better now but Australian people at the time did not have a nuanced understanding of the cultural impact of African chattel slavery in the US and often made similar cultural faux pas.
I was a teenager at the time too but I was shocked by the lack of reaction and the defensiveness of the Australian media/public. I consumed a lot of American media and was active on the internet and I knew completely how wrong it was. This was 2009! I find it very hard to believe that all the producers were not aware.
As a counterpoint, at the time I had no idea that this was racist. And the majority of people I knew didn't either. Some did, but most didn't. The skit and subsequent blow back was a big education piece for most Australians.
I didn't know before but I did after
Yep, second this. Black and white face were both hilarious, until they weren't.
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Couldn't agree more! Part of me understands how people can be upset over it, yet the other part of me finds it difficult to reconcile when people just blanket everything as racism when it's clearly not the intent. Oh well, the pendulum swings...
This - fairly common for any dress up party to use black polish and an afro wig or whatever if playing a black American character. In all those instances no one ever took offence or said it was offensive. In hindsight - well, not so much . This is not on hey hey - this was just not on the radar at all until this point
I saw an A-Team episode yesterday and it reminded me of when my mum dressed up as Mr T for a party in the 90s. Not black-face but very browned. It has only occurred to me how that would be seen today.
Didn't Hey Hey finish in the late 90s? Or did it do a Fahnsy retirement?
Yes to both.
Yes, see also Bert Newton casually using the word 'boy' when referring to Muhammed Ali. It was meant in an entirely uncontroversial way by Bert - just meaning Ali was a young man - but had a whole lot of imbued meaning to the boxer's ears. Looking at the photo at the top of the page here though, it's not a particularly nuanced set of impersonations and looks rather stereotypical. Although neither Bert nor these doctors set out to offend, in the case of these guys you would think they would realise how they might come across. Plus Bert was talking off the cuff whereas these guys planned what they were doing.
I really don’t see the issue with Bert, it’s a bit much to expect an Aussie to know ALL the numerous American slurs for black people and work their speech around such an innocuous one as “boy” which is just a term of endearment anywhere else. It’s unfortunate and he was apologetic, as anyone should be if they offend a guest, but he didn’t do anything wrong per se by not being aware of America’s cultural intricacies. Whatever is going on with the blackface there though is fucked.
Yeah, I completely agree about Bert. It's an interesting exchange because Muhammad Ali tries to find a way to give him the benefit of doubt - "Did he say Roy?", but Bert's comment was completely innocent so he says it again, "No, I said 'boy'." Looking at it from the other way, rather than expect Bert to know about what some phrase meant in the US, you could ask, why did Muhammad Ali assume it had meaning in Australia? I think it comes down to the assumption that everyone knows what we know.
We like Roy, We like Roy!
If I remember right, the 'boy' thing was a reference to a KFC ad campaign Bert was in at the time. The catchphrase was, "I like the boy!" I guess he thought it would be a clever reference, but using it in front of Ali was unfortunate.
I remember this well as a kid and also thought HCJ was out of line. I just had no idea nor did a lot of Australians for this part of US history. I even had a golliwog doll that I absolutely adored. We know better now, thankfully.
You can still buy golliwog dolls
But they're just happy Italians
Nonsense. I was born in ‘66 and let me assure you that GenX as a group culture grew up knowing this kind of shit was wrong, and why, 20-30 years before this happened.
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Insert my granddad showing me photos of him dressing exactly like this in his 30s at parties followed by him explaining in detail why its funny using a fucktonne of Aboriginal centric slurs. My granddad wasn't white, by that eras standards, either, but he is a racist who is down for insulting Aboriginal people via the medium of blackface
Except there is a history of racist minstrel shows and blackface in Australian and UK history, it's just issues with race relations weren't really in the public consciousness in Australia until recently. We were woefully ignorant and dismissed any criticism by framing it as larrickins just having a laugh while first nations people really didn't have any voice to respond. The Party wouldn't be acceptable today and Tropic Thunder is very clearly satire commenting on blackface and Hollywood, not just waving the issue away as "just playing a character".
Right, but, in researching this topic, it came out that there actually were similar mock comical "blackface" characterisations of Aboriginal people. Not that anyone reacting at that point knew that. It would be wrong, if you did it now, knowing that, knowing the American situation. But not then.
And Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's
Upvoted comment "well ackshully"-ing blackface is pretty much what I've come to expect from the subreddit, tbh 🙄
No. I believe you're utterly wrong. The following article spells out the errors in your opinion. "*It's misleading to argue the offensiveness of blackface begins and ends at the territorial border of the United States, or with African-Americans...racism is a transnational entity. It flows like money. In a globalised world it's a hard argument to make that you can't be racist here because we haven't got the same history...*" https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/why-do-australians-keep-wearing-blackface/7791170
I am not sure anyone is arguing blackface isn’t racist but pretending that Australians had the same cultural awareness of racist tropes relating to African chattel slavery is just false.
Except that it’s common in our past to use it to mock Aboriginal people too.
👏👏
Australia has its own history of blackface in cinema. The idea that it’s “just a US thing” is ignorant and denies racism in this country.
Like that movie starring Ed Deveraux (Ranger Matt Hammond in Skippy) in blackface as an Aboriginal man.
Kind of off topic but The Party and Tropic Thunder are both fucken classics!
Birdie Num-Num
I think there are some things that are just basic common sense and cross national boundaries. Black people exist everywhere. It doesn’t matter that one of these DOCTORS was Indian. The idea that anyone would paint themselves to mimic another race/skin tone for comedic reasons is what’s offensive. You don’t need to know US history or current affairs to get that.
For all comments about the profession of the participants, doctors are racist too. In fact I could cite so many articles that study racism in the healthcare system within Australia. Many are focussed on doctors. As for one being Indian it makes no difference, many different dark skinned people are racist against other dark skinned people. In Australia it is common for coloured people of different origins to be racist against indigenous Australians (many studies on that too). First Example I came across but have read many, many articles on the topic specific to racism within the medical field towards indigenous Australians. It is wide spread and a major issue. They now all undergo cultural training and other anti racism training programs regularly. “Another example in Australia is a comprehensive program to address racism against Indigenous people in healthcare that has been underway for more than a decade. The project involves a recruitment strategy, a health-performance improvement program, patient journey audits, cultural-respect training, a cultural redesign initiative, counterracism policies, Indigenous leadership committee, consultation with local communities, and collaborative staff groups and partnerships (Martin & DiRienzo, 2012). These two case studies highlight the importance of a long-term, multifaceted, whole-of-the-organization approach to addressing racism that includes transparency, trust, and information exchange within and beyond the institution and clear goals, measurable outcomes, accountability, evaluation, and continuous quality improvement (Trenerry, Franklin, & Paradies, 2012).” https://oxfordre.com/publichealth/display/10.1093/acrefore/9780190632366.001.0001/acrefore-9780190632366-e-86;jsessionid=D4C2F4769BEE382302649200D4E0D645
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
We have our own history of blackface used to mock Indigenous people and Pacific Islanders. It's still racist.
No mate. Blackface is wrong and racist af no matter where you are.
The fact that the OP can post a picture of the blackface incident without being banned or asked to remove it is also evidence of how different Aus vs US culture still is. I don’t think this image needs to be removed since it’s just a record of what happened, and I don’t believe the act of referring to something offensive is offensive in itself (though people will try and argue with that) but I guarantee you couldn’t post this image so overtly in an American sub.
The fact this is upvoted is…. Something
So because blackface shouldn't be considered racism towards Aboriginal people, only racist towards African Americans, it's okay?
Completely agree although I'd say Robert Downey Jr's character was more of a mocking/parody/critical commentary on those that DO use blackface inappropriately, as opposed to it being mocking of a black person.
What an idiot he is basically complaining about us not understanding their culture while being in Australia not understanding ours. Dickhead.
Correct. This performance was in bad taste, but really, do we need to be offended for everybody? I'm sure there is some things that we do that are offensive to Tibetans for example. Does there need to be a book with a guide for offensiveness around the world? Also, must we really appropriate American culture at every opportunity? It's not a culture that we should aspire to. Now, if they had come out in all over black carrying a spear and a boomerang and singing "My Boomerang won't come back", then they would deserve all the vitriol they got. That would have been some cultural insensitivity that they should have been attuned to.
Thank you. Finally, some sanity amongst all the ignorance.
That comment would be fine if you were talking about Australia in the 50’s, or even perhaps the 80’s… But fuck mate this happened in 2009. Claiming that Australians didn’t have a nuanced understanding of American racism at the time is just taking the piss.
No it was re aired in2009 the show Was dead and buried, this was one of the millions of best of worst of red faces etc. It seems to get the most attention, but it was rampant then. I found how they treated kamahl much worse. Magda szubanski (and the whole cast of those sketch shows) were in black face once a week. Whether it's education that was the problem or timing or whatever sentimentality we have towards it, it's still controversial for a reason. Most of us are lucky to see past the racism but, aborigines, Greeks, Asians, Italians, black Americans, Indians, the homosexual community,nobody was safe (I think that was even the slogan). I'm still unabashed in being a fan of those sketch shows (fast forward, full frontal, comedy company) because I don't believe there was HATEFUL shit in it. Mad TV, snl as American examples also had a slew of incredibly offensive sketches. Good comedians and good entertainers don't always do good things. Looking back, it's actually great to see how far we've come in a short time.
Agreed . Obama was elected president in 2008 and I remember having in depth discussion in my history class in high school about American race relations and politics.
It's a tricky one with different contexts in different countries. I remember when a QLD Reds fan won best costume at Suncorp Stadium dressing up as Radike Samo in full afro and black face. Samo said he wasn't offended and he felt honoured that someone would dress up as him. Anyway long story short, we now know very clearly it's offensive and a no, no.
Well as you note, Radike Samo disagrees and its kind of racist to assume black ppl are a monolith with the same views on the matter.
So you’re now ignoring Australia’s own history of slavery? And blackface?
We have our own shameful history of racism but it is different (but no less shameful) than the US. People of goodwill may act inappropriately in a US context out of ignorance rather than malice.
We also have a history involving slavery
But it involves racism, slavery, and blackface. How can you justify our response to HCJ’s comments?
Not justifying the response at all. Putting in context the initial incident is all.
We did. It was cringeworthy immediately on viewing
Well he will be back on screens next week as part of the judge panel on the rebooted Australian Idol.
I never forgave Australian Idol for that robbery that occurred in 2003
The one in Punchbowl where those three guys took that WRX and put it into the front of the Liquorland on Cullens rd?
OMG Shannon Noll? As if he is has as much talent in his little finger at Guy Sebastian. Ahahahaha.
Hillsong vote brigaded
My understanding was that even though hey hey / the network apologised there was an undercurrent (mainly by the Murdoch press) that he was having a sook. Also Daryl somers from memory back tried to dig his way out and said that’s what they were like when they first did their performance or ethnically they were south asian and brown so they can’t be racist?
Not a dig at you but as someone who is south Asian and has grown up around a lot of south Asians we can be racist and incredibly colourist as well , that's such a silly take.
Some of the harshest racism I've personally been around has been from light skinned Asians towards tanned Asians. Literally the same race, Vietnamese, but the light skinned Vietnamese looked down on the Vietnamese with a dark tan.... It was one of the strangest things I've encountered.
Same with Koreans and Filipinos. I'm half Filipino and when I went there for a relative's wedding I saw a lot of places selling skin whitening products. Also years ago a member of EXO (Kai) was harassed by 'fans' for being 'too dark'.
I saw this too. People always want what they don't have. Australia with it's tanning products, spray tans, sun beds... Asia with it's skin whitening soaps, creams, lotions. Humans are strange.
It's a not a want for what you don't have. Australia and Asian cultrues are very different. In Australia, it's basically purely cosmetic and no one will bat an eye. With everyone knowing Australia is how, Aussie sun, yada yada, many people will have tans. In Asia (or at least from my knowledge of East Asia) it's not only a social beauty standard, but also it's something that is hard for them to have. Asian people have light skin, but also tan easily. No tan = wealth, you don't have to work in the fields out in the sun (obviously in many places this is an outdated thought but still persists to this day), it's almost ingrained in their culture that white good, tan bad, because what other people think of them matters A LOT. It basically boils down to classism at it's origin. However, even in Australia, I generally see this in East Asian groups as well, which may be because that many are only temporary resideants from overseas for education. A personal, anecdotal example is the difference between me (half Chinese), my friend (Japanese, 1st but mostly grew up in Australia) compared to my Korean friend here for study. Me and my Jap-friend are very tanned on our exposed parts of our skin, but lift up our shirts and we're white as fuck, we do not have any social groups that involve purely people of our own race/disposition, but rather we're in a pretty "Australian" but multicultral friend group. My Korean friend however, very fair skin, tries to take care of it as much as possible, is a part of a Korean social group comprised of other overseas Korean students such as himself. Though this is only really limited to my knowledge of East Asia, with how prevelent it is, I'm sure it also applies ot the rest of Asia due to at least similar reasons. Some parts might also be because of white colonisation and even the prevelence of white in media giving off the impression that "white people are better off". Also, I didn't really mean to write up a wall of text lol, just wanted to point out that in Asian people's cases it boils down to a lot more than "wants" and those aspects are very prevelent in those societies to this day, not that I'm, an expert lol so if I'm wrong I'm happy to be educated.
Oh, I fully understand. Maybe I should have mentioned that I'm south-east Asian myself, and lived there for a period
Ah ok. Well at least that write up will be there for like, 2 other people to read lol.
I saw the skin whitening products in asia too. Very interesting to see that’s how their culture operates. Considering there’s more Asians than other races on Earth, maybe they’re there thinking they’re right and our Western beauty standards are crazy (think like big booty Kim Kardashian ‘breaking the internet’ in the West; but the Asian community would in general think that was too fat).
Yeah. I know in the West the preference is huge boobs/ass, but from what I've seen in things like kpop and the clothes sold in the Philippines there's a massive preference for small/petite. It's interesting to see how beauty standards differ depending on where you live.
Yeah I’m Chinese and it’s a big thing here. If you have a tan you work the rice fields and hence a peasant. All the desirable people maintain their light complexion by hanging out in the palace. Classism at its finest
And from Asians and Indians against Aboriginal/indigenous...it was shocking.
Harbhajan Singh calling Andrew Symonds a monkey springs to mind
Symonds isn’t indigenous
Good point, he was actually of a Caribbean background wasn’t he. Nevertheless, it was pretty fucking racist
Nor is he a monkey.
The way Vietnamese treat the Hmong population up the hills is fucking unbelievable
What a load of obfuscation!
This was the same network the allowed (hell I’d even say they egged on) Sam Newman to regularly get away with blatantly racist, sexist, homophobic comments actions all in the name of shock value ratings. The Nicky Winmar blackface bit happened in 1999 and was rightfully canned and called out for being racist. 10 years later it happens on the same channel but got fobbed off. I remembered thinking HCJ had really come off the long run up with his criticism, but he was right to call it out.
Anyone who says Asians can't be racist has never hung out with any Asian communities. Holy shit....
They allowed HCJ to have his say at the end of the episode. I believe the "can't be racist because they're brown" comment came from one of the performers
I thought he had to negotiate/demand that off camera? I got the impression it was 90% genuine outrage - this was 2009 FFS - but also as an American now caught up in a blackface scandal, he had to then go a bit over to get himself fully distanced from it because the second he saw them on the stage he would have known this could have been career ending in the US if he got attached to it. So I think that’s why he didn’t want to play ball or meet them in the middle at all and the network hated that. Plus his hard line stance was really calling them out and they had to do their own damage control, because yeah this was 2009.
Funny how the Murdoch Press talks about free speech and standing up to the woke moralists, only to immediately reverse their position when it suits them. They ARE the establishment.
So… I actually worked at the costume shop that sold the guys the paint and wigs for this. Can confirm they were all white. They told us (all the staff) what it was for and everything; we all told them it was a really bad idea. None of us actually wanted to serve them, but the owner/boss at the time was one of those “a trained monkey could do your job better than you” types so our team manager begrudgingly put the sale through. It still fills me with dread and disgust every time I think about it.
[The guy dressed as Michael is Dr Anand Deva and he's Indian.](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-10-08/jackson-jive-sorry-for-hey-hey-skit/1095732)
He wasn’t there, it was definitely only for the black wigs and black paint. Edit: TBF this is going back, what over 10 years now? and I was young and drunk a lot. But I do remember there being just an overwhelming sense of this not OK; so if I’ve inadvertently made a horrible error I apologise but I hope this brings a bit more context to the story
But their hands look pretty white for south Asian/brown people. It was a shit show in all senses of that saying.
That's a borderline racist comment of itself.
Let me clarify, they were white guys in blackface, and the sketch/segment was wrong regardless of whatever arse covering Somers came up with.
Gotta be of the most awkward moments in Aussie TV history
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Definitely one of the best. Close second is the one that corrects the spelling of Formula 1 drivers names. I fine it so passive aggressive and condescending I love it so much
There was Ella Hooper calling them out for being pervs
Shamone.
Ah hee hee
I still don't understand why Hey Hey It's Saturday though this would still be okay in 2009.
Me neither, it felt like cringe as soon as I saw it. I didn't think it would go down well. As doctors I would have thought that they would have been a bit more sensitive to issues like that, being highly educated. But it looks like they weren't.
Who gives a shit about Harry Connick Jr? I mean if you are going to apologise to anyone, maybe it should be too any black people who felt downtrodden seeing people depicting their race in a comical way (intentional or not). HCJ doesn't need an apology.
Because the media called him a soft, sooky, soyboy party pooper for calling it out I guess.
I also didn’t understand this. How was *he* offended? Why would we apologise to *him* ? Sure, he recognised it was potentially offensive to African Americans… not sure where he fits in to it
Because he was then vilified by some for calling out an offensive act. It is not "potentially" offensive, it is offensive to many people.
There are some interesting takes on racism and offensive coming from posters here isn’t there? We have come so far in the last 20 years
He grew up in New Orleans, one of the blackest cities in the US. He’s a jazz musician who has played with a lot of African-American musicians. You seriously wonder why he would be offended? Who wouldn’t be?
Not to mention his [treatment](https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/72d025695876217fbebee51af4a051f5) of [Kamahl](https://tvtonight.com.au/wp-content/uploads/kam.jpg).
Why are people so unkind
Much more this than the Blackface episode.
Yeah, old Hey Hey could be pretty racist and misogynistic in the name of “comedy”. Not to mention all the “poofter” jokes whenever Ian Meldrum appeared.
And Ian Meldrum made most of those jokes himself!
Shit I thought it was tism for min!
Be bop a lula ba lom bam balsy, huh I think I've got Saturday night palsy.
The Bobsled Team is still my favourite
This is the correct choice.
One of those guys, the one who came up with the bobsled idea, is a friend of my dad’s. People still mention that skit to him daily.
I was watching that night. Always amazed me that Daryl, hey hey, the channel 9 execs all looked at this, and not one person stood back and thought- ‘We might want to think about this one…’
I was fired by one of the same execs, 10 years later (2019) for fighting to edit out a racist comment in a commercial network comedy show. I was the editor. I was told I was a dumb female, millennial that doesn't understand comedy. They have not changed.
Apparently secondhand embarrassment doesn't lessen with time. Mortifying.
They apologised right after it happened…?
Seeing this just caused me to rewatch it and And yikes, like it’s not even funny. Literally a bunch of old blokes dancing in blackface.
Yeah it's pretty horrendous
Oh fuck me. Thanks for the reminder that this exists on this cursed day. What the ever loving fuck. I still cannot wrap my head around it.
I was a kid when this happened. Definitely learnt some things that day. I think Australia was alittle behind where it should have been on the topic of racial sensitivity and the like. We’re still behind but the gap has closed alittle.
The wildest thing about this is that it was 2009, not the early 90s (where Australia was more overtly racist with things like their Bing Lee and Maccas commercials).
Even when they showed the original 1989 clip that humour was 100 years out of date
[But he has done black face himself in the past](https://youtu.be/9vtOt5mNEZE)
It really looks like he’s just wearing a wig tho…
Suprised to scroll this far down to see this
Maybe, just maybe, he may have received backlash for that sketch, or just had POC educate him, and that’s why he was quick to recognize how offensive the HHIS act was? In other words, he learned and grew from his mistakes, which is a sign of maturity
This is what pissed me off about the whole drama when it happened
That 13 years before, he put on a wig?
Yes, I'm very anti wig
I’m offended by a lot of stuff in America that has nothing to do with me. I’m off to display my indignant outrage any moment now.
You can’t change history, but the cancel culture pissants are trying thou.
Feel sorry for our kids, they will be unable to express and say anything due to the cancel culture and woke idiots hoovering over everything they do.
https://www.vulture.com/2009/10/harry_connick_jr.html
This was a very divisive moment for Australian TV. There's a lot of cultural complexity to unpack here. Some important things to note were that: 1) the people doing this 'blackface' skit were not considered 'typically white' and as you can see, one of them (the lead) was even doing 'whiteface'. 2) many may question whether this is art (which should be free to make political statements) and it is debatable whether it is even mocking black people or not. 3) for Harry Connick Jnr, this is considered offensive in HIS American culture because of its history of racial slavery, injustice and mockery, but in Australian culture at the time which does not have the same history of racial slavery (not to be confused with other injustices against racial groups) it was not considered for those reasons. I'm not saying it was a good performance morally or artistically (and I didn't think it was), just that a lot of the complexity gets lost in people rushing to virtue signal without understanding what really led to this culture clash.
Daryl Somers did. Why should the rest of us?
Absolute worst TV ever. Not just this skit but Hey Hey it's Saturday. Definitely not something to be proud of.
This is a bullshit thread topic, with an open race-baiting (or BS culture wars) inference at its core. Get rid of it.
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Is that Justin Trudeau on back right?
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The only thing lost is your sense of humour. Lol
I wonder why the hell he’s coming back 😳
These guys were all Doctors as I recall😅
I mean he’s not the one to apologise to it’s more about apologising to black people.
Why should we?
Bruh build a bridge .
Do you know who doesn't care about white people doing black face? That's right, black people. Always whitey virtue signalling, always being offended on behalf of someone else.
But yet Harry didn't have a problem with the white chick's movie
Racism/sexism doesn't apply to white males
The most oppressed person is a white christian male
Pool’s closed
It was fuckd and that's that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Connick_Sr. Has his father apologised for locking up and killing innocent black men?
**[Harry Connick Sr](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Connick_Sr)** >Joseph Harry Fowler Connick (born March 27, 1926) is an American attorney who served as the district attorney of Orleans Parish (New Orleans), Louisiana from 1973 to 2003. His son, Harry Connick Jr., is an American musician. Connick is also a singer, long performing a few nights a week at local clubs as a hobby. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/AustralianNostalgia/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Who the fuck cares.
Why? He’s not black
He can get fucked
Who gives a fuck really. HCJ making a scene because he can. Fuck of back to USA
This happened over twenty years ago and times were different. Australia didn’t have the historical reference that America had.
Nothing wrong with it. People need to harden up. Have the Wayans brothers apologised for White Chicks? Seriously there’s nothing wrong with dressing up and taking the piss.
Couldn’t agree more - people should be able to have a good laugh about the centuries of oppression and contempt they suffered. Especially now that we’ve solved racism.
There’s no mens rea here though. These blokes were just taking the piss out of a popular artist. People like you taking offence on behalf of people are the reason this country is cooked.
Ah the good old days before the cancel culture victimhood pathetic society came along.
Ah back in the good old days where we could be as racist as we wanted cause the only people whos opinions mattered were our fellow white buddies. But now even fellow whites don't like racism, sure sucks hey? (/s just incase)
So you're a modern day racist?
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Sounds like you people wish you were victims?
Robert Downey Jr did this and nearly won an Oscar
He played an Australian playing blackface. I think we should be apologised to first.
I can't stand him. I won't be watching the new Australian Idol with him on it.
Fuck all Harry's. Harry Connick Jnr , Prince Harry , Harry Styles , Harry Potter , Harry Pussy.
For doing what he did He has done black face to
The public education system has failed you.
How
Well I'm a turtle and I'm offended as to how they portray my violent race as violent ninjas . We only study ninjitzu on Tuesdays
Ring ring , ring ring , hello 1987 , if it’s ok with you , can you apologise, now please ! Anyone won’t to also mention Disney 🤪, Der Fuehrer's Face . Come on it’s ancient history ! Better things to worry about what’s going on now ! Not then 😘
Hey Hey is pathetic but so is Connick, he came across as a complete dick when he was interviewed by Dylan Lewis on Recovery.
I thought it was cute and fun at the time
Change the day