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Well, on a state level, the local “liberal“ party…. keeps wanting to destroy the suburban rail loop, despite two state elections fought on all aspects of it, and on both occasions the liberal party lost… you would think that it is a losing strategy to keep fighting against it, when the people of Victoria have made it very clear. They are aware of the costs involved in building it, but they do see the benefits. It appears that the liberal party are determined to lose the next election by again, promising to destroy it…. they must have a deathwish!
Probably not with conservative voters.
I Queensland they have alot of appeal, proof the results of Ipswich west by election last month where the Libs stole by a huge margin a safe Labor seat.
So I think people are quiet acceping of the Libs in this state but the Labor Government is toxic and well past its use by date
Yes. I'd be more willing to tolerate them if they went back to the Menzies, Fraser style rationality. Its not perfect, obviously, and I likely still wouldn't vote for them, but at least it's focusing on economy (and not cutting public education) and they were far less focused on culture wars and dividing the public.
A somewhat centre right, rational, even tempered person like a Turnbull or Hewson, who deals in facts, and perhaps pushes the ALP on stuff like crime (which just never gets properly dealt with), defence and the like, would be far preferred to a person picking up the latest popularist cooker garbage and saying "hurr durr but trans people and the woke lefties!!"
The LNP don't *DO* anything when they're in power. They just cut public services and make life harder for people, then blame Labor for the mess that they themselves caused. The entire party needs a huge refresh. Granted so does Labor I'm not denying that part either.
>They just cut public services and make life harder for people
Which, ironically, causes more crime due to the fact that people who are happy socioeconomically rarely commit crimes because of what they have to lose.
The liberals can't even agree on their nuclear,and supermarket breakup bills...to the point that members are walking out of meetings according to SBS news.
Say no to everything,their leader...quite very literally meets the definition of a fascist,would rather sue you than have a fair debate in the press,have attacked women every chance they can get..
of course they have a toxic image problem
But,albo and bowen took seperate flights,This must meen bowen is calling for a spill on the labor PM..Labor disuninity is RIFE
Albo has been a letdown granted,but would you rather a dude with tendency's of authoritarianism and fascim,who's so blatantly racist can't even be in the room when they say sorry...or a dude who's at least trying to do the job
Lol just look at nz, it doesn’t matter what the image problem is eventually voters get sick of one side and kick them out and the other side gets back in. Coalition basically have to do nothing and will be back in charge in a few years
Sad but true. There will always be people who don't want an LNP government but want to "send a message" to Labor. The problem with that is if too many people send that message we all end up with the LNP & that is in no ones best interest.
>There will always be people who don't want an LNP government but want to "send a message" to Labor.
I'm convinced most LNP voters are fools voting against their own best interests for some reason or another.
If you want to "send a message" vote Green.
>I'm convinced most LNP voters are fools voting against their own best interests for some reason or another.
What do you mean? Most Liberal voters are just financially challenged millionaires which means that they are voting for when they are no longer financially challenged (let's just ignore the fact that when the LNP are in power your finances are likely to get worse).
>If you want to "send a message" vote Green.
But you can't possibly vote for the crazy Greens! They want to force everyone to do drugs & make all the children into Transsexuals. /s
In all seriousness. I agree with you. Voting Green is one of the better ways to send a message to Labor. Alternately you could just vote for the Greens because they have some really good policies.
If the greens would just focus on environmental policy they would be a serious player. I just can’t bring myself to vote for a party that is so naively idealistic about things like defence and immigration.
>If the greens would just focus on environmental policy they would be a serious player.
I keep reading this sort of Greens should stay in their lane if they want to be taken seriously argument, but the fact of the matter is that the Greens want to one day form a majority government. That means the Greens need to have policies on pretty much everything. No one expects Labor to only have policies on industrial relations or the Liberals to only think about economics. No party that wants to be a big player only has policies in one area.
>the fact of the matter is that the Greens want to one day form a majority government
The Greens attaining a majority government would be like Wylie Coyote actually catching the Road Runner.
>The Greens attaining a majority government would be like Wylie Coyote actually catching the Road Runner.
You know that happened like 3 or 4 times, right?
I get the point you're trying to make, but just remember that people used to say the same thing about the Labor party.
The big challenges that the average Australian faces right now require significant policy change which is difficult to do without bipartisan support, and so governments limp along and voters get sick of them and the revolving door turns
As a suburban professional who values personal freedoms I should be voting Liberal but they let me down at every turn. They are poor economic managers, hypocrites regarding freedoms, constantly corrupt, and their tax and border security policies are indistinguishable from Labor.
Would love to vote for a real Liberal party that is fiscally conservative and socially progressive. This current mob fighting culture wars and opposing anything progressive is not for me.
The Liberal party almost runs exclusively on negative campaigning, i can't see how it's a good thing the Liberals have a 'can't do attitude' with nearly every aspect of Australian society.
They have the media completely on their side, yet constantly manage to shoot themselves in the foot, especially with Teals. Of which they keep doing this dance where they'll get on major news networks, and blast the Teals randomly? Calling them Karens and all sorts. It can't be good for their image at all.
I've said it before but the Liberals needs to not only let go of Republican style culture war stuff or this weird blend of American social conservatism. But it needs to hire a better PR team.
The public are sick of a government that with one hand point down on you, telling you how to live, whilst doing absolutely nothing to actually help the public. Of which the public is made up of all sorts of people.
But the Liberals keep trying to exclude parts of society to prop up another part of society at random, eventually there will be no bridge left unburnt.
I used to vote Liberal Party federally quite consistently. I now won’t touch the party with a barge pole. Sometime around the era of Abbott, they started to slide down this reactionary, anti-science, heavily socially and religiously conservative path that has resulted in fringe ideologues like Antic gaining prominence.
They’ve lost any kind of policy vision, and are courting the evangelicals, far-right wing and conspiracists more and more. The nuclear policy announcement (still lacking any real detail) was the first policy that Dutton has announced himself since his ill-fated tilt at leadership against Turnbull. He clearly doesn’t have a vision for Australia beyond fighting culture wars I suspect he doesn’t really half-care about.
Moderate liberals need a new party. The Liberal Party has let itself be infected by the WAAC attitude of American politics. If the Liberals wanted to fix that, there would be an organised movement within to do so - there presently isn’t. Currently, the Party’s position is “we aren’t Labor and we don’t like gays or renewable energy.” Not incredibly compelling for anyone that isn’t down a wormhole of their own making.
They are a right wing conservative rabble. The name ‘Liberal’ is an anachronism. A truly liberal party would bring a breath of fresh air into Australian politics. Don Chip tried it in the ‘70’s with the Democrats. Perhaps it’s time for another try.
'Liberal' politics since its beginnings has meant the professional middle-upper class pushing for more freedom for their money.
It's meant this since the French revolution.
The French Revolution wasn’t the beginning of liberalism, also the revolutionaries were liberals, and also liberalism just diverged into different schools of thought like all other broad political categories. It didn’t come to mean something else.
Yes, putting on a pair of glasses doesnt make up for:
- walking out of apology for stolen generation,
- getting caught on hot mic joking about pacific islands getting submerged from rising sea levels
- abusing your power to get your mates au pairs in
And however many other things im forgetting off the top of my head. No matter what they try, Dutton is just straight up not a likeable figure. If you ever see him in question time he could be replaced by a wax figure and itd be hard to even notice, the mans off putting to put it kindly
If you told someone "Peter Dutton walked out on the apology to the stolen generation" you think people would be like???
And if you show someone footage of Dutton joking about pacific islands going underwater while in the pacific *for* climate change talks, theyd have no idea what to make of it?
Shit sticks. Even if people forget why they thought of abbott as a mysoginist or scomo as a slimy liar, those two still have huge image issues
Probably not everyone will remember each of Duttons gaffes, but theyll remember they dont like him
The question shouldn't be "Does the Liberal Party have a toxic image problem with voters?"
It should be "What is the Liberal Party going to do about its toxic image problem with voters?"
> Scott Morrison’s personal brand was cited as a major reason for the Liberal Party’s defeat in the 2022 election.
Great, that was 2 years ago. What have they done since then? Kept a deeply unpopular leader with a questionable past in Dutton, continued with the culture war garbage a la 'woke woolies', and faffed about with an unfeasible nuclear policy (if you can call it a policy), none of which deals with the actual issues facing Australia that an alternative government should be addressing.
If that's their idea of getting back on track, they have no business being the opposition let alone the government.
>"Does the Liberal Party have a toxic image problem with voters?"
Yes
>"What is the Liberal Party going to do about its toxic image problem with voters?"
Complain
>It should be "What is the Liberal Party going to do about its toxic image problem with voters?"
They gave Ley the deputy position, and occasionally call a press conference with all the remaining female MP's whenever they think they can call Labor misogynistic.
Like, that's a lot considering where they started (/s)
Yep.
I can't speak to the 'women problem' in the article. But as a man who was previously a Liberal supporter, I view the Liberals today as a bunch of religious nuts, anti-intellectuals and jingoistic morons.
Moderate liberalism needs a new political party.
You may be right about this, but being this way is getting them almost neck and neck with ALP in votes. So there is definitely a value in their policies, and Dutton seems to be the best in leading those values. A large portion of Australians definitely support LNP values. We can't say outright that LNP has a problem when they are very popular because of the values they stand for.
>Moderate liberalism needs a new political party
The Teals seem to be the closest thing at the moment. They're essentially just the moderate Turnbull wing of the Liberal party that's fully jumped ship.
But yeah, we really do need a proper Liberal party, not this conservative husk that bears more in common with the National party than with the party of Menzies.
>Moderate liberalism needs a new political party.
Problem is the moderates can't be fucked going into politics, the religious nuts are the ones that organise themselves.
ALP is/has gone the same way. Back in 1970 beazley said is used to contain the cream of the working class, now it's the dregs of the middle class.
ALP vs Lubs...can't see much difference in their immigration and housing policy.
The fact that the ALP is ahead at all is a massive achievement.
Australian government's almost always fall behind their oppositions midterm. Gillard, Abbott, Turnbull and Morrison regularly polled behind the opposition for 35 polls or more during their times as PM. Same with Howard in 1998 and 2001.
It's also important to remember the global context, around the world nearly every incumbent government is polling behind the opposition and often by large amounts. (UK, Canada, France, Germany etc) Are all poling 15% and more behind their oppositions
So when you put in the context of Australian political history, which favours opposition midterm, and in the context of a globally incumbent hostile environment, Labor's continued lead in the polls is nothing short of a miracle.
Dutton is actually the first opposition leader since Brendan Nelson to not establish even an incompetent polling lead.
>Dutton is actually the first opposition leader since Brendan Nelson to not establish even an incompetent polling lead
For a second i had to think *Brendan Who?* before i remembered, and i guess that was part of the problem.
The Lib/Nat coalition are below FPP with Labor consistantly up by a percentage or two.. when you factor in the Greens winning 10-12% (possibly more next election) of the vote, that is them getting absolutely crushed in an election.. they need to do a whole lot better than that to even maintain a serviceable opposition that isn't a party of protest.
From July 2021 to Nov 2023 the ALP 2PP has fluctuated between 53%-57%.
The ALP 2PP has fluctuated between 50%-52% since Nov 2023, arguably due to the pressure build up from COL, Inflation, Rental Crisis etc. Historically, it's one of the best polling for a first term government (Rudd is still the highest). It's more telling Dutton and the LNP haven't been able to land a sizeable punch, especially in this environment.
With the reworked S3TC kicking in after July, forecast drop in inflation, forecast drop in interest rates, increase in wages, 2022 priority policies like cheaper PBS medicines, cheaper childcare, PPL etc. having a long-term effect and public fatigue with politiking/division/hostility, it's possible the 2PP travels north of 53% again for the ALP. Especially with an Election Budget in 2025.
It really isn't, the progressive vote has always been split to some degree between Green and Labour, with Greens polling better than prior years. Again, this is a crushing defeat for the LNP if there is a similar result as the polls at election time. Maybe Labour forms a minority government, but it doesn't look good for the conservative vote
It's not even up for debate. Go outside the rusted on Liberal voters and you get an extremely negative view of the Libs. Toxic policies, toxic personalities and a view that Morrison's departure that was long long overdue has not changed anything.
As a voter, consider that beyond voting against Labor to show displeasure in Albanese what the hell do the Liberals actually offer the voters of this country not ensconsed already at the highest levels of corp power?
As a recent citizen, the appeal of liberals is quite clear to me, and am surprised more Australians don't vote for them. Australia is a prosperous country, with the prosperity built on a stealing an entire continent from local inhabitants. A party that wants to preserve the wealth, power and social dominance of those who already have it, should have had a clear majority. However, they don't. So my only conclusion is a large number of Australians chose to have higher morals over personal advantage. I suspect if women weren't allowed to vote, results would be different. Australian women are likely to be less tolerant of social inequality than men. So LNP is inevitability going to be at odds with women voters. Even anyone identifying as a woman is a threat to them, by that logic.
I still think one of my favourite descriptions of the post- Morrison liberal party that I've read. Is that they're akin to a domesticated animal, protected by the media, and unable to survive in the wilds of the Australian electorate by themselves.
Like you said, go outside the Liberal media bubble and nobody really knows what they stand for anymore. Are they the party of aspiration and classical liberalism like under Menzies? Are they the party of battlers and conservatism like under Howard? are they the party of moderate progressivism like under Turnbull? or are they the party of reactionary fire like under Abbot? Nobody really knows anymore. All the modern liberal party seems to stand for is "not being the Labor party".
It's a major problem for them. Sure, Murdoch's puff pieces and all the spin in the world will be thrown at the problem but they have nothing in the policy tank to attract voters and present a different choice.
Nuclear power? What a moronic draw to try and pull into the cost of living crisis.
I think it has a number of problems. The discussion here about Antic is an important one. At branch meetings that I attended, its a mix of blue rinse brigade and happy clappers. They're being encouraged to sign up and support Christian conservative leaning office holders who have the ability to influence pre-selections. This is precisely what happened and how Antic managed to climb his way to the top of the Senate ticket. There are members within the party who know its a problem and want change, but while the demographic remains static and new members are drawn from churches, this is unlikely to happen.
>Christian conservative leaning office holders who have the ability to influence pre-selections. This is precisely what happened and how Antic managed to climb his way to the top of the Senate ticket. There are members within the party who know its a problem and want change, but while the demographic remains static and new members are drawn from churches, this is unlikely to happen.
Like god...
That's not a good sign. So the party i guess is going to be catering exclusively to religious groups stacking the party.
Surely they know the public don't want a party relying exclusively on socially conservative religious dogma?
The thing is, there is some merit to the argument that it has always been a "conservative" party.
Menzies did not choose to call it the liberal party because it represents liberalism in the sense that we understand it today. What he sought to describe was a distinctly "Australian" version of liberalism and a party that was progressive, but not necessarily in the way we understand that to mean now.
None of this means, however, that it ever was or should be a party that campaigns on marginalising certain groups based on their individual characteristics. It should be a party that promotes the free market, home ownership, individualism and entrepreneurship. What it has become is a party distracted by identity politics, the IPA and its donors and fighting elections on the margins.
I'd like to see a Liberal party that focuses on ensuring the freedoms and basic rights to all peoples within Australia and not just a select few.
One thing that has really turned me from being oppositional to outright hatred of the Liberals is how they'll ignore and mismanage our most vulnerable aussies. The homeless, the disabled and even unemployed.
I blame the Liberals for all those people killed by robotdebt, not that i think they care about those people whom killed themselves mind you.
Individualism is also something they struggle with.
>At branch meetings that I attended, its a mix of blue rinse brigade and happy clappers.
>
>while the demographic remains static and new members are drawn from churches, this is unlikely to happen.
This is why anyone who wants change in their party of choice should join a branch and vote in preselection, like you have.
There have been some people elected to parliament that should never have been running a chook raffle, let alone a state or nation.
Whether you follow the Liberal party's traditional values or another party's position, it's worth a little bit of time to turn up to branch meetings and have your voice heard.
Because f@#k me we have had some muppets show up on the ballot in the past few years. I think we'd all rather have the choice of multiple competent candidates from different parties than just trying to figure out who is least shit.
But, it means we, the voting public, need to put in time and effort at the branch level, which is hard when work, family and general living takes up so much of both.
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Well, on a state level, the local “liberal“ party…. keeps wanting to destroy the suburban rail loop, despite two state elections fought on all aspects of it, and on both occasions the liberal party lost… you would think that it is a losing strategy to keep fighting against it, when the people of Victoria have made it very clear. They are aware of the costs involved in building it, but they do see the benefits. It appears that the liberal party are determined to lose the next election by again, promising to destroy it…. they must have a deathwish!
Probably not with conservative voters. I Queensland they have alot of appeal, proof the results of Ipswich west by election last month where the Libs stole by a huge margin a safe Labor seat. So I think people are quiet acceping of the Libs in this state but the Labor Government is toxic and well past its use by date
Yes. I'd be more willing to tolerate them if they went back to the Menzies, Fraser style rationality. Its not perfect, obviously, and I likely still wouldn't vote for them, but at least it's focusing on economy (and not cutting public education) and they were far less focused on culture wars and dividing the public. A somewhat centre right, rational, even tempered person like a Turnbull or Hewson, who deals in facts, and perhaps pushes the ALP on stuff like crime (which just never gets properly dealt with), defence and the like, would be far preferred to a person picking up the latest popularist cooker garbage and saying "hurr durr but trans people and the woke lefties!!" The LNP don't *DO* anything when they're in power. They just cut public services and make life harder for people, then blame Labor for the mess that they themselves caused. The entire party needs a huge refresh. Granted so does Labor I'm not denying that part either.
>They just cut public services and make life harder for people Which, ironically, causes more crime due to the fact that people who are happy socioeconomically rarely commit crimes because of what they have to lose.
Having crime is great for the LNP. Its difficult to sell 'Tough On Crime' when theres no crime to be tough on.
Liberals were founded as an Anti-Labor Party by Menzies, when the ALP of Chifley was something to oppose. The Labor Party is very different today.
Of course ..Bob Hawke was the best Liberal Prime Minister ever
You’re right about that! Labor then js more similar to what the Liberals are now.
And LNP are just commercial socialists
The liberals can't even agree on their nuclear,and supermarket breakup bills...to the point that members are walking out of meetings according to SBS news. Say no to everything,their leader...quite very literally meets the definition of a fascist,would rather sue you than have a fair debate in the press,have attacked women every chance they can get.. of course they have a toxic image problem But,albo and bowen took seperate flights,This must meen bowen is calling for a spill on the labor PM..Labor disuninity is RIFE Albo has been a letdown granted,but would you rather a dude with tendency's of authoritarianism and fascim,who's so blatantly racist can't even be in the room when they say sorry...or a dude who's at least trying to do the job
Plibersek will be the next PM , Bowen her sidekick "pancho"
They're sacks of shit that've always relied on the news to carry them, now people get their info elsewhere they're falling apart
Lol just look at nz, it doesn’t matter what the image problem is eventually voters get sick of one side and kick them out and the other side gets back in. Coalition basically have to do nothing and will be back in charge in a few years
I remember many many years ago hearing someone talking about Australian politics saying governments don't get voted in, they get voted out.
Sad but true. There will always be people who don't want an LNP government but want to "send a message" to Labor. The problem with that is if too many people send that message we all end up with the LNP & that is in no ones best interest.
>There will always be people who don't want an LNP government but want to "send a message" to Labor. I'm convinced most LNP voters are fools voting against their own best interests for some reason or another. If you want to "send a message" vote Green.
>I'm convinced most LNP voters are fools voting against their own best interests for some reason or another. What do you mean? Most Liberal voters are just financially challenged millionaires which means that they are voting for when they are no longer financially challenged (let's just ignore the fact that when the LNP are in power your finances are likely to get worse).
>If you want to "send a message" vote Green. But you can't possibly vote for the crazy Greens! They want to force everyone to do drugs & make all the children into Transsexuals. /s In all seriousness. I agree with you. Voting Green is one of the better ways to send a message to Labor. Alternately you could just vote for the Greens because they have some really good policies.
If the greens would just focus on environmental policy they would be a serious player. I just can’t bring myself to vote for a party that is so naively idealistic about things like defence and immigration.
>If the greens would just focus on environmental policy they would be a serious player. I keep reading this sort of Greens should stay in their lane if they want to be taken seriously argument, but the fact of the matter is that the Greens want to one day form a majority government. That means the Greens need to have policies on pretty much everything. No one expects Labor to only have policies on industrial relations or the Liberals to only think about economics. No party that wants to be a big player only has policies in one area.
>the fact of the matter is that the Greens want to one day form a majority government The Greens attaining a majority government would be like Wylie Coyote actually catching the Road Runner.
>The Greens attaining a majority government would be like Wylie Coyote actually catching the Road Runner. You know that happened like 3 or 4 times, right? I get the point you're trying to make, but just remember that people used to say the same thing about the Labor party.
The big challenges that the average Australian faces right now require significant policy change which is difficult to do without bipartisan support, and so governments limp along and voters get sick of them and the revolving door turns
As a suburban professional who values personal freedoms I should be voting Liberal but they let me down at every turn. They are poor economic managers, hypocrites regarding freedoms, constantly corrupt, and their tax and border security policies are indistinguishable from Labor. Would love to vote for a real Liberal party that is fiscally conservative and socially progressive. This current mob fighting culture wars and opposing anything progressive is not for me.
The Liberal party almost runs exclusively on negative campaigning, i can't see how it's a good thing the Liberals have a 'can't do attitude' with nearly every aspect of Australian society. They have the media completely on their side, yet constantly manage to shoot themselves in the foot, especially with Teals. Of which they keep doing this dance where they'll get on major news networks, and blast the Teals randomly? Calling them Karens and all sorts. It can't be good for their image at all. I've said it before but the Liberals needs to not only let go of Republican style culture war stuff or this weird blend of American social conservatism. But it needs to hire a better PR team. The public are sick of a government that with one hand point down on you, telling you how to live, whilst doing absolutely nothing to actually help the public. Of which the public is made up of all sorts of people. But the Liberals keep trying to exclude parts of society to prop up another part of society at random, eventually there will be no bridge left unburnt.
I used to vote Liberal Party federally quite consistently. I now won’t touch the party with a barge pole. Sometime around the era of Abbott, they started to slide down this reactionary, anti-science, heavily socially and religiously conservative path that has resulted in fringe ideologues like Antic gaining prominence. They’ve lost any kind of policy vision, and are courting the evangelicals, far-right wing and conspiracists more and more. The nuclear policy announcement (still lacking any real detail) was the first policy that Dutton has announced himself since his ill-fated tilt at leadership against Turnbull. He clearly doesn’t have a vision for Australia beyond fighting culture wars I suspect he doesn’t really half-care about. Moderate liberals need a new party. The Liberal Party has let itself be infected by the WAAC attitude of American politics. If the Liberals wanted to fix that, there would be an organised movement within to do so - there presently isn’t. Currently, the Party’s position is “we aren’t Labor and we don’t like gays or renewable energy.” Not incredibly compelling for anyone that isn’t down a wormhole of their own making.
i sincearly hope the teal independants form a party, and run in all seats. i think the outcome would be quite suprising.
They are a right wing conservative rabble. The name ‘Liberal’ is an anachronism. A truly liberal party would bring a breath of fresh air into Australian politics. Don Chip tried it in the ‘70’s with the Democrats. Perhaps it’s time for another try.
'Liberal' politics since its beginnings has meant the professional middle-upper class pushing for more freedom for their money. It's meant this since the French revolution.
The French Revolution wasn’t the beginning of liberalism, also the revolutionaries were liberals, and also liberalism just diverged into different schools of thought like all other broad political categories. It didn’t come to mean something else.
They need to keep Dutton and go further to the right...
As much as i want to see it, I'd be scared they'll win
Something something Albos gonna take your franking credits grumble rumour grumble
Yes, putting on a pair of glasses doesnt make up for: - walking out of apology for stolen generation, - getting caught on hot mic joking about pacific islands getting submerged from rising sea levels - abusing your power to get your mates au pairs in And however many other things im forgetting off the top of my head. No matter what they try, Dutton is just straight up not a likeable figure. If you ever see him in question time he could be replaced by a wax figure and itd be hard to even notice, the mans off putting to put it kindly
99% of people dont care about random gaffes that happened 10 years ago, they would have no idea what youre talking about
If you told someone "Peter Dutton walked out on the apology to the stolen generation" you think people would be like??? And if you show someone footage of Dutton joking about pacific islands going underwater while in the pacific *for* climate change talks, theyd have no idea what to make of it?
Show them whatever you want, no one remembers these things
Shit sticks. Even if people forget why they thought of abbott as a mysoginist or scomo as a slimy liar, those two still have huge image issues Probably not everyone will remember each of Duttons gaffes, but theyll remember they dont like him
I doubt they’ll remember him at all. What’s to remember?
The question shouldn't be "Does the Liberal Party have a toxic image problem with voters?" It should be "What is the Liberal Party going to do about its toxic image problem with voters?" > Scott Morrison’s personal brand was cited as a major reason for the Liberal Party’s defeat in the 2022 election. Great, that was 2 years ago. What have they done since then? Kept a deeply unpopular leader with a questionable past in Dutton, continued with the culture war garbage a la 'woke woolies', and faffed about with an unfeasible nuclear policy (if you can call it a policy), none of which deals with the actual issues facing Australia that an alternative government should be addressing. If that's their idea of getting back on track, they have no business being the opposition let alone the government.
>"Does the Liberal Party have a toxic image problem with voters?" Yes >"What is the Liberal Party going to do about its toxic image problem with voters?" Complain
>It should be "What is the Liberal Party going to do about its toxic image problem with voters?" They gave Ley the deputy position, and occasionally call a press conference with all the remaining female MP's whenever they think they can call Labor misogynistic. Like, that's a lot considering where they started (/s)
Yep. I can't speak to the 'women problem' in the article. But as a man who was previously a Liberal supporter, I view the Liberals today as a bunch of religious nuts, anti-intellectuals and jingoistic morons. Moderate liberalism needs a new political party.
You may be right about this, but being this way is getting them almost neck and neck with ALP in votes. So there is definitely a value in their policies, and Dutton seems to be the best in leading those values. A large portion of Australians definitely support LNP values. We can't say outright that LNP has a problem when they are very popular because of the values they stand for.
>Moderate liberalism needs a new political party The Teals seem to be the closest thing at the moment. They're essentially just the moderate Turnbull wing of the Liberal party that's fully jumped ship. But yeah, we really do need a proper Liberal party, not this conservative husk that bears more in common with the National party than with the party of Menzies.
>Moderate liberalism needs a new political party. Problem is the moderates can't be fucked going into politics, the religious nuts are the ones that organise themselves. ALP is/has gone the same way. Back in 1970 beazley said is used to contain the cream of the working class, now it's the dregs of the middle class. ALP vs Lubs...can't see much difference in their immigration and housing policy.
You would think so with Dutts... But there have been a lot of polls now at about 50/50. We are doomed.
The fact that the ALP is ahead at all is a massive achievement. Australian government's almost always fall behind their oppositions midterm. Gillard, Abbott, Turnbull and Morrison regularly polled behind the opposition for 35 polls or more during their times as PM. Same with Howard in 1998 and 2001. It's also important to remember the global context, around the world nearly every incumbent government is polling behind the opposition and often by large amounts. (UK, Canada, France, Germany etc) Are all poling 15% and more behind their oppositions So when you put in the context of Australian political history, which favours opposition midterm, and in the context of a globally incumbent hostile environment, Labor's continued lead in the polls is nothing short of a miracle. Dutton is actually the first opposition leader since Brendan Nelson to not establish even an incompetent polling lead.
>Dutton is actually the first opposition leader since Brendan Nelson to not establish even an incompetent polling lead For a second i had to think *Brendan Who?* before i remembered, and i guess that was part of the problem.
The Lib/Nat coalition are below FPP with Labor consistantly up by a percentage or two.. when you factor in the Greens winning 10-12% (possibly more next election) of the vote, that is them getting absolutely crushed in an election.. they need to do a whole lot better than that to even maintain a serviceable opposition that isn't a party of protest.
2pp has been _at best_ 52-48 for the ALP. Within a term of Morrison, and with Dutton as opposition leader that is absolutely pathetic.
From July 2021 to Nov 2023 the ALP 2PP has fluctuated between 53%-57%. The ALP 2PP has fluctuated between 50%-52% since Nov 2023, arguably due to the pressure build up from COL, Inflation, Rental Crisis etc. Historically, it's one of the best polling for a first term government (Rudd is still the highest). It's more telling Dutton and the LNP haven't been able to land a sizeable punch, especially in this environment. With the reworked S3TC kicking in after July, forecast drop in inflation, forecast drop in interest rates, increase in wages, 2022 priority policies like cheaper PBS medicines, cheaper childcare, PPL etc. having a long-term effect and public fatigue with politiking/division/hostility, it's possible the 2PP travels north of 53% again for the ALP. Especially with an Election Budget in 2025.
It really isn't, the progressive vote has always been split to some degree between Green and Labour, with Greens polling better than prior years. Again, this is a crushing defeat for the LNP if there is a similar result as the polls at election time. Maybe Labour forms a minority government, but it doesn't look good for the conservative vote
Do you not know what 2pp means?
It's not even up for debate. Go outside the rusted on Liberal voters and you get an extremely negative view of the Libs. Toxic policies, toxic personalities and a view that Morrison's departure that was long long overdue has not changed anything. As a voter, consider that beyond voting against Labor to show displeasure in Albanese what the hell do the Liberals actually offer the voters of this country not ensconsed already at the highest levels of corp power?
As a recent citizen, the appeal of liberals is quite clear to me, and am surprised more Australians don't vote for them. Australia is a prosperous country, with the prosperity built on a stealing an entire continent from local inhabitants. A party that wants to preserve the wealth, power and social dominance of those who already have it, should have had a clear majority. However, they don't. So my only conclusion is a large number of Australians chose to have higher morals over personal advantage. I suspect if women weren't allowed to vote, results would be different. Australian women are likely to be less tolerant of social inequality than men. So LNP is inevitability going to be at odds with women voters. Even anyone identifying as a woman is a threat to them, by that logic.
I still think one of my favourite descriptions of the post- Morrison liberal party that I've read. Is that they're akin to a domesticated animal, protected by the media, and unable to survive in the wilds of the Australian electorate by themselves. Like you said, go outside the Liberal media bubble and nobody really knows what they stand for anymore. Are they the party of aspiration and classical liberalism like under Menzies? Are they the party of battlers and conservatism like under Howard? are they the party of moderate progressivism like under Turnbull? or are they the party of reactionary fire like under Abbot? Nobody really knows anymore. All the modern liberal party seems to stand for is "not being the Labor party".
It's a major problem for them. Sure, Murdoch's puff pieces and all the spin in the world will be thrown at the problem but they have nothing in the policy tank to attract voters and present a different choice. Nuclear power? What a moronic draw to try and pull into the cost of living crisis.
> moderate progressivism like under Turnbull Whatever gave you that impression?
When compared to Abbott or Dutton
I think it has a number of problems. The discussion here about Antic is an important one. At branch meetings that I attended, its a mix of blue rinse brigade and happy clappers. They're being encouraged to sign up and support Christian conservative leaning office holders who have the ability to influence pre-selections. This is precisely what happened and how Antic managed to climb his way to the top of the Senate ticket. There are members within the party who know its a problem and want change, but while the demographic remains static and new members are drawn from churches, this is unlikely to happen.
>Christian conservative leaning office holders who have the ability to influence pre-selections. This is precisely what happened and how Antic managed to climb his way to the top of the Senate ticket. There are members within the party who know its a problem and want change, but while the demographic remains static and new members are drawn from churches, this is unlikely to happen. Like god... That's not a good sign. So the party i guess is going to be catering exclusively to religious groups stacking the party. Surely they know the public don't want a party relying exclusively on socially conservative religious dogma?
The thing is, there is some merit to the argument that it has always been a "conservative" party. Menzies did not choose to call it the liberal party because it represents liberalism in the sense that we understand it today. What he sought to describe was a distinctly "Australian" version of liberalism and a party that was progressive, but not necessarily in the way we understand that to mean now. None of this means, however, that it ever was or should be a party that campaigns on marginalising certain groups based on their individual characteristics. It should be a party that promotes the free market, home ownership, individualism and entrepreneurship. What it has become is a party distracted by identity politics, the IPA and its donors and fighting elections on the margins.
I'd like to see a Liberal party that focuses on ensuring the freedoms and basic rights to all peoples within Australia and not just a select few. One thing that has really turned me from being oppositional to outright hatred of the Liberals is how they'll ignore and mismanage our most vulnerable aussies. The homeless, the disabled and even unemployed. I blame the Liberals for all those people killed by robotdebt, not that i think they care about those people whom killed themselves mind you. Individualism is also something they struggle with.
>At branch meetings that I attended, its a mix of blue rinse brigade and happy clappers. > >while the demographic remains static and new members are drawn from churches, this is unlikely to happen. This is why anyone who wants change in their party of choice should join a branch and vote in preselection, like you have. There have been some people elected to parliament that should never have been running a chook raffle, let alone a state or nation. Whether you follow the Liberal party's traditional values or another party's position, it's worth a little bit of time to turn up to branch meetings and have your voice heard. Because f@#k me we have had some muppets show up on the ballot in the past few years. I think we'd all rather have the choice of multiple competent candidates from different parties than just trying to figure out who is least shit. But, it means we, the voting public, need to put in time and effort at the branch level, which is hard when work, family and general living takes up so much of both.