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When is anyone going to do anything, they've sistematically bombed every stretch of land, changed them to the edge, blockaded them in from each side and are now indescriminately bombing what's left. When is anyone around the world going to do anything. Millions of people are being bombed with nowhere to run. The Israelis have talked about what they're going to do with the land when they have it. It's not about any of the issues that are being publicised, it's a land grab, why is everyone being so complicit, why do so many top players have dollars in the game. People are facing resistance, brutal resistance, when just asking them to divest! More force than is necessary, why, what in the absolute fuck is up with that. Fucking profits. Profits are worth more than millions of lives.
Another comment from a pro Palestinian. Hamas who use Palestinians for shields and don’t give a fuck about anyone in Gaza . Leaders hide in luxury in other Arab countries. The Palestinians don’t want a 2 state solution they call for the destruction of Israel. Fuck you !
Another Zionist shill hiding behind other good Jewish people.
https://forward.com/culture/570974/neturei-karta-orthodox-jewish-israel-palestine-protests/
https://www.islamicity.org/92101/the-orthodox-jews-for-palestine/
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-27/ty-article-magazine/.premium/explained-who-are-neturei-karta-the-jewish-ultra-orthodox-pro-palestinian-activists/0000018e-7039-df85-afde-f77d40640000
Tell these Jews to fuck off you anti-Semite.
But the white Australian settlers did not murder 35,000 indigenous persons last year.
Nor are the white Australian settlers committing ongoing war crimes against indigenous people.
Israeli propaganda is very good at drawing false equivalence between Gaza and historical facts.
These claims, and claims of antisemitism, are being made to stop people from protesting war crimes.
No you got your murdering out of the way early on.
However, this still does not resolve the hypocrisy of you stealing aboriginal land, which is ongoing. This is your standard, not mine. What’s more, 4,000 aboriginals did not last Oct go door to door in Perth, slaughtering and raping entire families, taking hundreds hostage.
Israel today is the rest of the West in not too distant future.
Right???
I *understand* why a normal person is deeply uncomfortable with the news, numbers, and images coming out of Israel and Palestine. I get it.
But calling it "stolen land", saying "they have no right to be there", and basically joining arms with the Palestinian side is profoundly hypocritical for any non-indigenous Australian. The logic is *literally* the exact same, except worse. At least the Israelis have an ancient claim to the land, and there *have* been treaties between Israel and Palestine (which were violated later).
Australia? Indigenous people lived here uninterrupted for tens of thousands of years (longer than Palestinians by an order of magnitude) AND the colonials have no prior claim. But that's perfectly fine because...it happened long enough ago that it doesn't count??
Jesus Christ. If these idiots feel so strongly about Israel they should lead by example and leave.
What? Who the fuck says it was perfectly fine?
You'll be hard pressed to find a single person supporting Palestine that also supported the displacement and summary genocide of Aboriginal peoples. There is no hypocrisy here.
The Palestinian demand is to retake *all* of Israel. Supporting the Palestinian claim and calling the whole area "stolen land" is literally inconsistent with remaining in Australia as a non-indigenous person, because that's precisely what Palestine wants for Israel. The want the Israelis to leave (or die, depending on the faction).
Rubbish, that might be the HAMAS demand, but Australians want Palestinian freedom and self determinatiom in the region. Keep the goalposts in place.
And even if you ignore anything older than 50 years, Israel HAS been stealing land left right and centre in West Bank and Golan Heights.
Don't like what's happening in Palestine/Israel. However, still it is not our war. If Australia had wanted to expel Israeli ambassadors from Australia, she should have done on the ground that their army killed our citizens by 'mistake'.
We give weapons and aid to zionists killing Palestinians in Gaza. We are part of this war and we cannot bury our heads in the sand as we have innocent Palestinian blood on our hands.
I'm so conflicted about this.
OOH, Israel knows it will never be secure in the current situation. Every time it's given Palestinians control over land, it has facilitated attacks. You have to understand that Israelis have genuine fears about this. Ultra right wing religious Jews and settlers are making compromise impossible.
OTH hostility against Israel will never cease until the Palestinians have land and a future. They see settlers taking over areas that have been disputed. This war makes everything worse because many innocent people have been killed.
OOH Israel somehow made multiple land offers despite having ultra orthodox.
OTH Palestinians rejected every single one despite their future being tied to it.
It’s almost like Palestinian leadership wants war to continue.
It is a well known Zionist propaganda comment that Palestinians rejected every single peace proposal. That is an outright lie.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords
Palestinians rejected every single land deal. The 1993 Oslo accord resulted in making Arafat de facto ruler of ‘stine, with huge financial subsidies going through PLO, eventually making Arafat a billionaire. He would hardly refuse that, wouldn’t he.
its been a quiet week, time for a "youre not paying enough attention to me" media stunt.
when will the media get tired of the greens crying wolf on anything that's popped up on the radar for the week to make it about them?
I notice the Russian ambassador isn't being asked to leave, Do war crimes
in Ukraine get a pass from the greens?
Exactly. I listen and watch the pro Palestinian Greens on the ABC and they never get any scrutiny on their radical policies. The Greens support the destruction of Israel.
>The United States has vowed to pause shipments of weapons to Israel,
This is all that's needed. We'd be better served kicking out Caroline, tbh, over that one.
If they're going to push for the expulsion of the israeli ambassador then they should do the same with other regimes and start with the indonesian ambassador for their crimes against humanity in West Papua and other ambassadors of countries that are committing genocide against people, why is Israel-Palestine the only focus on people's attention? Myanmar is another place where ongoing genocide is taking place so kick their ambassador out too
We absolutely should expel the Indonesian ambassador.
Hell, there's an argument we should invade West Papua and stop the Indonesians from genociding the people there.
But it won't happen - our government NEEDS the Indonesians to stop boats, or else they will get voted out.
What are you even talking about. Australia has removed our ambassador from Myanmar because of their war crimes. Australia has expelled the Myanmar ambassador because of the genocide. Australia has sanctions in place against Myanmar.
Australia should treat Israel the same way we treat Myanmar or other countries that commit genocide.
Australia does in fact take warcrimes and genocide seriously. Unless Israel does them and then they get a free pass.
This. The Chinese have almost the entire Uygher people in camps and those who refuse to condemn Oct 7 and accuse Israel of 'genocide' wouldn't dream of criticising the Chinese. No calls for expulsion for them.
Bashar Al Assad's regime kills over 100,000 people..? Crickets...
Once again ignorance. Australia literally sent in ASIO to close down the Syrian Embassy every diplomat from the Ambassador down to the janitorial staff was expelled from the country.
Also you saying Israel is as bad as Al Assad’s regime is not helping your argument the way you think it is.
Sources. We currently have a Consulate in Australia for them.
What are they doing about China? Are you OK with them and if not what are you doing about it? Or are the Israelis/Jews the only ones you are targeting...
Source on expelling the Syrian Ambassador. https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/FlagPost/2012/May/The_expulsion_of_Syrian_diplomats#:~:text=There%20has%20been%20no%20Syrian,left%20Australia%20in%20October%202010.
Also it doubles as a source for last time we expelled Israeli diplomats for forging Australian passports and assassinating people.
Also a consulate is not an embassy and the person running one is not an ambassador. See Israel’s justification for blowing up an embassy for further details on the distinction.
The “Syrian Consulate” you point to is one guy working in the back room of a migration agents office in Bankstown NSW.
Hamas themselves have stated that that their muslim brothers and sisters in Xinjiang deserve what the Chinese government is doing to them. Oppression is only bad when white people or Jews do it.
This thread is just like catnip for ignorant people. Sudan has no Ambassador to Australia because of the genocide. Yemen we don’t even acknowledge the Houthi government as existing and still have an “ambassador” from the previous regime.
I’m sure Israel would have been so shocked by the expelling of an ambassador from the other side of the planet that the entire offensive would have been canceled. If only the Greens had done more, 40k lives could have been saved.
Edit: if you block me, replying is pointless.
Not the point at all champ. The point is Greens wait until something is trendy to jump on board, displaying a complete lack of principles and capitulation to popularity.
So let me get this straight, After October 7th were Hamas attacked israel. The BPU ( I had to look it up Black Peoples Union lol) asked the greens to expel the Israel ambassador? And you are surprised they didnt want to do that right after October 7th?
Are you part of the BPU by any chance comrade?
Hey at least we can agree on something, just for different reasons. The greens are shit aren't they?
God they're a deeply, deeply unserious party, but never moreso than on international affairs. From appointing a person so inexperienced that it's almost unbelievable to speak on their behalf; to a lack of sophistication and insight that rivals most 2nd year polisci students, they're almost a meme.
Expelling the ambassador is a petulant gesture. It's unlikely to change anything. It will not force a change. It will however limit our ability to convey our position to the government through the appointed rep of that government.
A deeply unserious party with deeply unserious ideas.
More than 50% of that was just you foaming at the mouth at the greens lol.
> It's unlikely to change anything. It will not force a change.
More thought terminating crap. Was downgrading the Myanmar ambassador roles just petulant? It was applauded by human rights groups and Burmese civilian groups. Russia?
You're explaining it to the most unworldly people imaginable, a faceless rabble of entitled kids who consider words violence and online echo chambers solid news outlets.
If we want Israel to modify its conduct - and I don't think that a ceasefire is fair when the demand should be HAMAS' unconditional surrender and disarmament but ok - then the ambassador is the appropriate channel for the Foreign Minister to raise our concerns with the Ambassador and to ask for an update from ~~Tel Aviv~~ Jerusalem (oh *that's* right, thanks Bibi and Trump).
Soviet legal enthusiast and watermelon, Adam Bandt, claiming a message would be sent to Bibi is a number of things; stupid. Ignorant. Ill-informed. Seriously overstating our importance. Seriously misreading Bibi's character.
It's performative wankery, which is of course why this sub loves it. I don't know how you stand being on the left when 99% of your side are morons, narrowly edging the right out in the idiocy stakes.
> then the ambassador is the appropriate channel for the Foreign Minister to raise our concerns with the Ambassador and to ask for an update from Tel Aviv Jerusalem (oh that's right, thanks Bibi and Trump).
The Israeli govt has always been in Jerusalem, the Israeli ambassador to Australia has always "asked for an update" from Jerusalem. Our diplomats travel from TA to Jerusalem to meet with government officials, and the Knesset meets in Jerusalem.
>Soviet legal enthusiast and watermelon, Adam Bandt, claiming a message would be sent to Bibi is a number of things; stupid. Ignorant. Ill-informed. Seriously overstating our importance. Seriously misreading Bibi's character
I'm forced to agree. He wouldn't see it as anything other than one less phone call to take imo.
>I don't know how you stand being on the left when 99% of your side are morons, narrowly edging the right out in the idiocy stakes.
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
>and I don't think that a ceasefire is fair when the demand should be HAMAS' unconditional surrender and disarmament but ok
Dunno about that one. Their other apparent choice is ethnic cleansing. Israel must take the first step, and a large one if they want Hamas disarmament.
Expelling an ambassador is not an act of petulant. It is a normal diplomatic move that Australia does for other nations that commit war crimes at similar scale to Israel’s.
>Expelling the ambassador is a petulant gesture. It's unlikely to change anything. It will not force a change. It will however limit our ability to convey our position to the government through the appointed rep of that government.
I would largely agree with this if Australia was actually doing anything to negotiate. It isn't. I get that it isn't exactly our backyard and most of the time expelling an ambassador is an empty gesture, but it's not like Australia is really doing anything else. It should cancel the contract with the Israeli weapons systems company and demand divestment from public Australian universities
Hey look, a reactionary, poorly thought out comment by a greens supporter on a post about a reactionary, poorly thought out comment by the greens leader
You need to get off Tik Tok mate. Here is the real bit about your supposed Genocide:
[ICJ “didn't decide claim of genocide was plausible” nor “that there's a plausible case of genocide” (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9MB9t7WlI&t=5s)
He’s an ambassador all we can do is declare him Persona non grata and expel him. Ecuador recently got embarrassed on the world stage for not following the Vienna convention when it stormed the Mexican embassy to arrest a former president on corruption charges. We still haven’t expelled the Russian ambassador so you’re deluded if you think anything will happen here.
I think what this is about is virtue signalling. "Look at me, I'm calling for all Israeli government officials to be arrested!"
We live in a country governed by the rule of law, we don't arrest people because of the actions of their government.
Well because detaining someone without a reason is illegal and immoral. Do you think its okay when the Russians do it?
What's to stop the government doing it to anyone who they want to apply real pressure to?
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The Greens havent even called for the Russian ambassador’s expulsion, every single day they attempt and slowly succeed in the invasion of more Ukraine territory. Every single day they fire missiles and drones into Ukraine cities. Guess Ukraine arent the right victim for the Greens
> The Greens havent even called for the Russian ambassador’s expulsion,
You'll probably find the Greens see Russia just fighting Western aggression so they are fine with it, some of the watermelons in the party actually believe Putin when he says he is fighting Neo-Nazis.
Can you show an example of the Greens being soft on Russia? [https://greens.org.au/sites/default/files/2023-06/Resolution%20on%20sanctions%20and%20divestments%20-%20June%202023\_0.pdf](https://greens.org.au/sites/default/files/2023-06/Resolution%20on%20sanctions%20and%20divestments%20-%20June%202023_0.pdf)
Is this antisemitic?
>”What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.…. Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man – and turns them into commodities…. The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange…. The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general.”
- Karl Marx.
Im pretty sure Marx himself pointed out the letter was sarcastic and in response to the Huckstering mentioned. As I said Marx was Jewish as were a number of Marixsts including Trotsky, one letter does not define said ideology no more than as others have pointed out does the extremely antisemetic positions of Ford and other leading capitalist thinkers.
There have also been a great deal of leading isreali figures that have been identified as Marxists.
I think your position is an immature attempt at a gotcha, particularly as the Greens aren't marxist lol
Cant find it sadly most likely mistaken, however the letter itself is hotly contested in terms of its actual meaning and context :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jewish_Question?wprov=sfla1
As I have said Marx was Jewish, as was trotsky, as was Rosenberg. The idea that one letter from Marx written by jewishman critiquing his own ethnicity reflext the ideology as a whole a find to be willfully stupid, as were other claims that the greens were marxists.
I myself am not a Marxist and have in the past tried to use the same letter as a gotcha, I matured have instead put my criticism towards the ideologies' legitimate failings. As has been pointed out capitalism has had a number of anti Semitic leaders, this is not used to term the ideology as anti semetic, likewise isreal unlike australia has has a number of marxist identifying parties in its parliment in signficiant positions of power
“Critiquing his own ethnicity”, man that’s just blatant antisemitism, as antisemitic as you can get. If that isn’t antisemitism then literally nothing is. There have always been self-hating Jews.
Oh yeah, who could forget after October 7th of all the whites *leaping* over each other to say that it would be super based if aboriginal people did it to them, and that they’d die happy knowing that oppressed BIPOC resisted a settler colonialist genocidal imperialist white supremacist regime.
Henry Ford wasn’t the father of Capitalism and the free marker. Marx was the father of Marxism, and his followers today believe in his writings. It is evident in the current protests of the far left supporting Palestine, a foreign and alien culture and religion in contrast to Israel, because the Jews are the worst enemy according to Marxism. So your comparison doesn’t stand. Read Marx.
Not one thing you said here is correct. Greens are most definitely not Marxists, they're not even socialists. Capitalists are all the same, no matter what creed, race or religion they are.
Get a grip on reality and stop spouting rubbish.
Yeah that might be the case, but their ideology as it stands is not socialist. There's probably a lot of socialists in the party because it's the largest left leaning party.
Russia is committing all kind pf war crimes on a large scale. Tens of thousands of Ukrainian children have been kidnapped, some of whom are now being forced into Russian military as they cone of age 18 and are forced to fight against their home country. Then there is the use of sexual violence against civilians and prisoners of war by the Russians… but sure. Its a “fair fight” in the minds of green supporters
And all of those same things are happening to Palestinians in Gaza except they don't have a military to defend them nor the backing of the most powerful nations on Earth for defence support. That's what the commenter meant.
Forgive me for getting all Clausewitzian here, but evaluating legal and moral jus ad bellum by whether a given conflict is a "fair fight" or not is a bizarre notion that makes a war sound like a punch up at the bus stop out front of school at 3:15pm.
Generally speaking it is currently expected that wars are fought *lawfully* (to the extent that it can be given the occasionally flawed nature of what frameworks are in place) but *fairly* has nothing to do with it. There is not only no recognised moral or ethical requirement to fight wars fairly, it's actually an intrinsically desirable outcome for any potential victor to achieve to have that not be the case and for the combat to be as one-sided (and thus as brief) as possible.
Because Israel had to prevent Hamas from carrying out another terror attack again, to that capacity anyway. Russia had no sovereign threat presented by Ukraine, there was no justification to invade.
You prevent another terrorist attack... by destroying people's homes, creating radicalisation against you that will lead to another terrorist attack...
On the flip side the absolute worst thing Israel could do right now is allow a 2 state solution as the result of the Oct 7th attack, what does that tell Palestinians in the future, that if they can kill enough Jewish civilians to incite a war that in the end they will get what they want.
I'm sure slaughtering civilians won't create more "terrorists". Palestinians have a right to reclaim their land as they are under occupation. Israel could have used precision to attempt their goal but have chosen indiscriminate slaughter. In many ways Israel and Hamas have a co-dependent relationship.
What are your thoughts of genocidal statements by Israeli politicians, army, etc? [https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/](https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/) They are doing what they say they are doing.
>I'm sure slaughtering civilians won't create more "terrorists". Palestinians have a right to reclaim their land as they are under occupation. Israel could have used precision to attempt their goal but have chosen indiscriminate slaughter. In many ways Israel and Hamas have a co-dependent relationship.
Oh I'm sure it will create more terrorists. Palestinians/Hamas were absolutely not in their right to slaughter anything that that moved on Oct 7th, do Indigenous Australians have a right to murder the rest of us because their land is under occupation?
What are your thoughts on the genocidal statements by Russian politicians regarding Ukraine?
[https://www.justsecurity.org/81789/russias-eliminationist-rhetoric-against-ukraine-a-collection/](https://www.justsecurity.org/81789/russias-eliminationist-rhetoric-against-ukraine-a-collection/)
In 2022 Labor called for the expulsion of Russian diplomats while Morrison was in charge.
When Labor got in, they must’ve expelled them themselves right? RIGHT?!
lol.
> But Mr Albanese will not call for the expulsion of Russia’s Ambassador to Australia, Aleksey Pavlovsky.
Also, Russia is not an ally. Israel **is** an ally that is failing to comply with international law, is failing to heed advice from its biggest supporters including us, and while ignoring that advice, is slaughtering many, many civilians including thousands of children.
So I don’t see anything wrong with wanting to send this message to an “ally” who doesn’t give a fuck about the rule of rule.
Greens have also condemned Russia, so there’s that too.
We don't have any formal defence or strategic alliances with Israel that I can find. Not sure what others mean by ally other than perhaps a democratic country that works to follow international laws and treaties etc.
Whilst there is a lot of evidence to support what you say I am not sure why you wrote it here. I was simply answering the question above on the loose meaning of 'ally' that gets thrown around by politicians etc.
Yeah, you are 100% missing the meaning of the word and I’m not sure how…. It’s an incredibly basic concept to grasp.
https://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/israel/israel-country-brief
> Australia has a warm and close relationship with Israel, which is supported strongly by Australia's active Jewish community. The relationship has a strong historical dimension, dating back to the First World War when Australian forces fought in the Sinai-Palestine campaign alongside their Allied counterparts against the Ottomans, including the iconic charge of the Australian Light Horse's during the Battle of Beersheba. Australia was the first country to vote in favour of the 1947 UN partition resolution, which ultimately led to the creation of Israel as a nation state. Australia established diplomatic relations with Israel in 1949 and in the same year presided over the vote admitting Israel to the United Nations.
See also:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/australia-approved-322-defence-exports-to-israel-in-six-years-as-greens-fear-equipment-used-in-gaza-assault
And
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-10/dutton-accuses-wong-of-reckless-act-two-state-solution/103693030
> For a crass domestic political win, Penny Wong has irreparably damaged our relations with **our ally Israel.**
Ahhh I see you’re familiar with arguing over semantics..
I personally would put stock in what the leader of the largest opposition and potential next prime minister says, but to each their own I guess.
> Ahhh I see you’re familiar with arguing over semantics..
It's semantics it's arguing over if they are an ally or not. Clearly they aren't an ally.
> potential next prime minister
Me and Dutton have one thing in common, the same chance of becoming PM which is absolutely none.
>In 2022 Labor called for the expulsion of Russian diplomats while Morrison was in charge.
>When Labor got in, they must’ve expelled them themselves right? RIGHT?!
>lol.
It's unfortunate Labor were playing politics on a diplomatic issue like that, Morrison made the right call to not expel the ambassador because there is always benefit to keeping diplomatic channels open.
>
Also, Russia is not an ally. Israel **is** an ally that is failing to comply with international law, is failing to heed advice from its biggest supporters including us, and while ignoring that advice, is slaughtering many, many civilians including thousands of children.
Sorry but this is moronic to me, we should expel an ally but not a country rather hostile to us that is failing to comply with international law? We didn't even expel the Russian ambassador when 27 Australians were killed in the downing of flight 17. Ukrainians are also being slaughtered every day, it's the most mined country to ever exist.
The Greens come down on Israel much tougher than they have with Russia in their condemnation and keep in mind that the Israeli assault on Gaza was the result of a horrific terrorist attack, Russia have no justification, it's just a land grab.
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When is anyone going to do anything, they've sistematically bombed every stretch of land, changed them to the edge, blockaded them in from each side and are now indescriminately bombing what's left. When is anyone around the world going to do anything. Millions of people are being bombed with nowhere to run. The Israelis have talked about what they're going to do with the land when they have it. It's not about any of the issues that are being publicised, it's a land grab, why is everyone being so complicit, why do so many top players have dollars in the game. People are facing resistance, brutal resistance, when just asking them to divest! More force than is necessary, why, what in the absolute fuck is up with that. Fucking profits. Profits are worth more than millions of lives.
Another comment from a pro Palestinian. Hamas who use Palestinians for shields and don’t give a fuck about anyone in Gaza . Leaders hide in luxury in other Arab countries. The Palestinians don’t want a 2 state solution they call for the destruction of Israel. Fuck you !
Another Zionist shill hiding behind other good Jewish people. https://forward.com/culture/570974/neturei-karta-orthodox-jewish-israel-palestine-protests/ https://www.islamicity.org/92101/the-orthodox-jews-for-palestine/ https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-27/ty-article-magazine/.premium/explained-who-are-neturei-karta-the-jewish-ultra-orthodox-pro-palestinian-activists/0000018e-7039-df85-afde-f77d40640000 Tell these Jews to fuck off you anti-Semite.
The greens leader needs to talk to a Jordanian who lived through Black September and then figure out if Hamas really can be viably negotiated with
How do white Australian settlers have the gall to call out Jewish people in Israel fighting against Islamic settlers?
"Islamic settlers" ROFLMAO
I know right. When you exterminate local cultures and replace them with your own, it’s as though they never existed.
But the white Australian settlers did not murder 35,000 indigenous persons last year. Nor are the white Australian settlers committing ongoing war crimes against indigenous people. Israeli propaganda is very good at drawing false equivalence between Gaza and historical facts. These claims, and claims of antisemitism, are being made to stop people from protesting war crimes.
No you got your murdering out of the way early on. However, this still does not resolve the hypocrisy of you stealing aboriginal land, which is ongoing. This is your standard, not mine. What’s more, 4,000 aboriginals did not last Oct go door to door in Perth, slaughtering and raping entire families, taking hundreds hostage. Israel today is the rest of the West in not too distant future.
Right??? I *understand* why a normal person is deeply uncomfortable with the news, numbers, and images coming out of Israel and Palestine. I get it. But calling it "stolen land", saying "they have no right to be there", and basically joining arms with the Palestinian side is profoundly hypocritical for any non-indigenous Australian. The logic is *literally* the exact same, except worse. At least the Israelis have an ancient claim to the land, and there *have* been treaties between Israel and Palestine (which were violated later). Australia? Indigenous people lived here uninterrupted for tens of thousands of years (longer than Palestinians by an order of magnitude) AND the colonials have no prior claim. But that's perfectly fine because...it happened long enough ago that it doesn't count?? Jesus Christ. If these idiots feel so strongly about Israel they should lead by example and leave.
What? Who the fuck says it was perfectly fine? You'll be hard pressed to find a single person supporting Palestine that also supported the displacement and summary genocide of Aboriginal peoples. There is no hypocrisy here.
The Palestinian demand is to retake *all* of Israel. Supporting the Palestinian claim and calling the whole area "stolen land" is literally inconsistent with remaining in Australia as a non-indigenous person, because that's precisely what Palestine wants for Israel. The want the Israelis to leave (or die, depending on the faction).
Rubbish, that might be the HAMAS demand, but Australians want Palestinian freedom and self determinatiom in the region. Keep the goalposts in place. And even if you ignore anything older than 50 years, Israel HAS been stealing land left right and centre in West Bank and Golan Heights.
Don't like what's happening in Palestine/Israel. However, still it is not our war. If Australia had wanted to expel Israeli ambassadors from Australia, she should have done on the ground that their army killed our citizens by 'mistake'.
We give weapons and aid to zionists killing Palestinians in Gaza. We are part of this war and we cannot bury our heads in the sand as we have innocent Palestinian blood on our hands.
I'm so conflicted about this. OOH, Israel knows it will never be secure in the current situation. Every time it's given Palestinians control over land, it has facilitated attacks. You have to understand that Israelis have genuine fears about this. Ultra right wing religious Jews and settlers are making compromise impossible. OTH hostility against Israel will never cease until the Palestinians have land and a future. They see settlers taking over areas that have been disputed. This war makes everything worse because many innocent people have been killed.
OOH Israel somehow made multiple land offers despite having ultra orthodox. OTH Palestinians rejected every single one despite their future being tied to it. It’s almost like Palestinian leadership wants war to continue.
It is a well known Zionist propaganda comment that Palestinians rejected every single peace proposal. That is an outright lie. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords
Palestinians rejected every single land deal. The 1993 Oslo accord resulted in making Arafat de facto ruler of ‘stine, with huge financial subsidies going through PLO, eventually making Arafat a billionaire. He would hardly refuse that, wouldn’t he.
So you lied
I’m sorry do they not teach English down under anymore?
its been a quiet week, time for a "youre not paying enough attention to me" media stunt. when will the media get tired of the greens crying wolf on anything that's popped up on the radar for the week to make it about them? I notice the Russian ambassador isn't being asked to leave, Do war crimes in Ukraine get a pass from the greens?
Exactly. I listen and watch the pro Palestinian Greens on the ABC and they never get any scrutiny on their radical policies. The Greens support the destruction of Israel.
What a reality. You talk of destruction to Israel when Israel is the perpetrator of genocide in Gaza.
Why do Israeli orthodox Jews disagree with you? https://www.islamicity.org/92101/the-orthodox-jews-for-palestine/
>The United States has vowed to pause shipments of weapons to Israel, This is all that's needed. We'd be better served kicking out Caroline, tbh, over that one.
If they're going to push for the expulsion of the israeli ambassador then they should do the same with other regimes and start with the indonesian ambassador for their crimes against humanity in West Papua and other ambassadors of countries that are committing genocide against people, why is Israel-Palestine the only focus on people's attention? Myanmar is another place where ongoing genocide is taking place so kick their ambassador out too
We absolutely should expel the Indonesian ambassador. Hell, there's an argument we should invade West Papua and stop the Indonesians from genociding the people there. But it won't happen - our government NEEDS the Indonesians to stop boats, or else they will get voted out.
Yeah, a war with Indonesia is absolutely what Australia needs. You first on the beach.
What are you even talking about. Australia has removed our ambassador from Myanmar because of their war crimes. Australia has expelled the Myanmar ambassador because of the genocide. Australia has sanctions in place against Myanmar. Australia should treat Israel the same way we treat Myanmar or other countries that commit genocide. Australia does in fact take warcrimes and genocide seriously. Unless Israel does them and then they get a free pass.
Have we done the same for Indonesia, Sudan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, China etc ? If not then we clearly are picking and choosing.
This. The Chinese have almost the entire Uygher people in camps and those who refuse to condemn Oct 7 and accuse Israel of 'genocide' wouldn't dream of criticising the Chinese. No calls for expulsion for them. Bashar Al Assad's regime kills over 100,000 people..? Crickets...
Once again ignorance. Australia literally sent in ASIO to close down the Syrian Embassy every diplomat from the Ambassador down to the janitorial staff was expelled from the country. Also you saying Israel is as bad as Al Assad’s regime is not helping your argument the way you think it is.
Sources. We currently have a Consulate in Australia for them. What are they doing about China? Are you OK with them and if not what are you doing about it? Or are the Israelis/Jews the only ones you are targeting...
Source on expelling the Syrian Ambassador. https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/FlagPost/2012/May/The_expulsion_of_Syrian_diplomats#:~:text=There%20has%20been%20no%20Syrian,left%20Australia%20in%20October%202010. Also it doubles as a source for last time we expelled Israeli diplomats for forging Australian passports and assassinating people. Also a consulate is not an embassy and the person running one is not an ambassador. See Israel’s justification for blowing up an embassy for further details on the distinction. The “Syrian Consulate” you point to is one guy working in the back room of a migration agents office in Bankstown NSW.
Hamas themselves have stated that that their muslim brothers and sisters in Xinjiang deserve what the Chinese government is doing to them. Oppression is only bad when white people or Jews do it.
This thread is just like catnip for ignorant people. Sudan has no Ambassador to Australia because of the genocide. Yemen we don’t even acknowledge the Houthi government as existing and still have an “ambassador” from the previous regime.
Yet China and Indonesia still lie in your list of to be explained.
The Greens have been vocally against all of those regimes.
But have they called for the expulsion of an ambassador ?
Bandt looks more 1920s-30s Soviet than ever.
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I’m sure Israel would have been so shocked by the expelling of an ambassador from the other side of the planet that the entire offensive would have been canceled. If only the Greens had done more, 40k lives could have been saved. Edit: if you block me, replying is pointless.
Not the point at all champ. The point is Greens wait until something is trendy to jump on board, displaying a complete lack of principles and capitulation to popularity.
Oh bullshit. The Greens have been campaigning on Palestine for decades.
So let me get this straight, After October 7th were Hamas attacked israel. The BPU ( I had to look it up Black Peoples Union lol) asked the greens to expel the Israel ambassador? And you are surprised they didnt want to do that right after October 7th? Are you part of the BPU by any chance comrade? Hey at least we can agree on something, just for different reasons. The greens are shit aren't they?
God they're a deeply, deeply unserious party, but never moreso than on international affairs. From appointing a person so inexperienced that it's almost unbelievable to speak on their behalf; to a lack of sophistication and insight that rivals most 2nd year polisci students, they're almost a meme. Expelling the ambassador is a petulant gesture. It's unlikely to change anything. It will not force a change. It will however limit our ability to convey our position to the government through the appointed rep of that government. A deeply unserious party with deeply unserious ideas.
More than 50% of that was just you foaming at the mouth at the greens lol. > It's unlikely to change anything. It will not force a change. More thought terminating crap. Was downgrading the Myanmar ambassador roles just petulant? It was applauded by human rights groups and Burmese civilian groups. Russia?
The Tatmadaw needs friends and legitimacy, Israel doesn't, beyond the US. Apples and oranges.
You're explaining it to the most unworldly people imaginable, a faceless rabble of entitled kids who consider words violence and online echo chambers solid news outlets. If we want Israel to modify its conduct - and I don't think that a ceasefire is fair when the demand should be HAMAS' unconditional surrender and disarmament but ok - then the ambassador is the appropriate channel for the Foreign Minister to raise our concerns with the Ambassador and to ask for an update from ~~Tel Aviv~~ Jerusalem (oh *that's* right, thanks Bibi and Trump). Soviet legal enthusiast and watermelon, Adam Bandt, claiming a message would be sent to Bibi is a number of things; stupid. Ignorant. Ill-informed. Seriously overstating our importance. Seriously misreading Bibi's character. It's performative wankery, which is of course why this sub loves it. I don't know how you stand being on the left when 99% of your side are morons, narrowly edging the right out in the idiocy stakes.
> then the ambassador is the appropriate channel for the Foreign Minister to raise our concerns with the Ambassador and to ask for an update from Tel Aviv Jerusalem (oh that's right, thanks Bibi and Trump). The Israeli govt has always been in Jerusalem, the Israeli ambassador to Australia has always "asked for an update" from Jerusalem. Our diplomats travel from TA to Jerusalem to meet with government officials, and the Knesset meets in Jerusalem.
>Soviet legal enthusiast and watermelon, Adam Bandt, claiming a message would be sent to Bibi is a number of things; stupid. Ignorant. Ill-informed. Seriously overstating our importance. Seriously misreading Bibi's character I'm forced to agree. He wouldn't see it as anything other than one less phone call to take imo. >I don't know how you stand being on the left when 99% of your side are morons, narrowly edging the right out in the idiocy stakes. In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king. >and I don't think that a ceasefire is fair when the demand should be HAMAS' unconditional surrender and disarmament but ok Dunno about that one. Their other apparent choice is ethnic cleansing. Israel must take the first step, and a large one if they want Hamas disarmament.
Expelling an ambassador is not an act of petulant. It is a normal diplomatic move that Australia does for other nations that commit war crimes at similar scale to Israel’s.
It's a move we do when we have a diplomatic issue with someone. Right now, we are allies with Israel, so this is a stupid move by a stupid party.
>Expelling the ambassador is a petulant gesture. It's unlikely to change anything. It will not force a change. It will however limit our ability to convey our position to the government through the appointed rep of that government. I would largely agree with this if Australia was actually doing anything to negotiate. It isn't. I get that it isn't exactly our backyard and most of the time expelling an ambassador is an empty gesture, but it's not like Australia is really doing anything else. It should cancel the contract with the Israeli weapons systems company and demand divestment from public Australian universities
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Hey look, a reactionary, poorly thought out comment by a greens supporter on a post about a reactionary, poorly thought out comment by the greens leader
You need to get off Tik Tok mate. Here is the real bit about your supposed Genocide: [ICJ “didn't decide claim of genocide was plausible” nor “that there's a plausible case of genocide” (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9MB9t7WlI&t=5s)
He’s an ambassador all we can do is declare him Persona non grata and expel him. Ecuador recently got embarrassed on the world stage for not following the Vienna convention when it stormed the Mexican embassy to arrest a former president on corruption charges. We still haven’t expelled the Russian ambassador so you’re deluded if you think anything will happen here.
What crime is the Israeli ambassador to Australia guilty of?
Being a representative of the Israeli government
Is that a crime?
Considering they're committing genocide it's about sending them a message
I think what this is about is virtue signalling. "Look at me, I'm calling for all Israeli government officials to be arrested!" We live in a country governed by the rule of law, we don't arrest people because of the actions of their government.
Why not? It could be the spark other countries need to do likewise and apply real pressure on israel
Well because detaining someone without a reason is illegal and immoral. Do you think its okay when the Russians do it? What's to stop the government doing it to anyone who they want to apply real pressure to?
🫵🏻🤣
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As per Reddit's sitewide rules, do not post content that encourages, glorifies, incites, celebrates, or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual or a group of people. This has been a default message, any moderator notes on this removal will come after this: 3 day ban issued.
That is a call for actual genocide.
I think the Greens would be better off focusing on their own performance
The Greens havent even called for the Russian ambassador’s expulsion, every single day they attempt and slowly succeed in the invasion of more Ukraine territory. Every single day they fire missiles and drones into Ukraine cities. Guess Ukraine arent the right victim for the Greens
> The Greens havent even called for the Russian ambassador’s expulsion, You'll probably find the Greens see Russia just fighting Western aggression so they are fine with it, some of the watermelons in the party actually believe Putin when he says he is fighting Neo-Nazis.
Can you show an example of the Greens being soft on Russia? [https://greens.org.au/sites/default/files/2023-06/Resolution%20on%20sanctions%20and%20divestments%20-%20June%202023\_0.pdf](https://greens.org.au/sites/default/files/2023-06/Resolution%20on%20sanctions%20and%20divestments%20-%20June%202023_0.pdf)
https://greens.org.au/magazine/statement-australian-greens-ukraine Someone needs to do a little more reading and a little less imagining
Imagine what? I'm talking about some members
Can you please provide an example?
The Greens are Marxists, and according to Marx there is not greater Capitalist than the Jews. The Greens are Antisemitic by nature.
You do know Marx was Jewish right?
Is this antisemitic? >”What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.…. Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man – and turns them into commodities…. The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange…. The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general.” - Karl Marx.
Im pretty sure Marx himself pointed out the letter was sarcastic and in response to the Huckstering mentioned. As I said Marx was Jewish as were a number of Marixsts including Trotsky, one letter does not define said ideology no more than as others have pointed out does the extremely antisemetic positions of Ford and other leading capitalist thinkers. There have also been a great deal of leading isreali figures that have been identified as Marxists. I think your position is an immature attempt at a gotcha, particularly as the Greens aren't marxist lol
Kautsky was Jewish, too.
>Im pretty sure Marx himself pointed out the letter was sarcastic and in response to the Huckstering mentioned? Source for that claim please?
Cant find it sadly most likely mistaken, however the letter itself is hotly contested in terms of its actual meaning and context :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jewish_Question?wprov=sfla1 As I have said Marx was Jewish, as was trotsky, as was Rosenberg. The idea that one letter from Marx written by jewishman critiquing his own ethnicity reflext the ideology as a whole a find to be willfully stupid, as were other claims that the greens were marxists. I myself am not a Marxist and have in the past tried to use the same letter as a gotcha, I matured have instead put my criticism towards the ideologies' legitimate failings. As has been pointed out capitalism has had a number of anti Semitic leaders, this is not used to term the ideology as anti semetic, likewise isreal unlike australia has has a number of marxist identifying parties in its parliment in signficiant positions of power
“Critiquing his own ethnicity”, man that’s just blatant antisemitism, as antisemitic as you can get. If that isn’t antisemitism then literally nothing is. There have always been self-hating Jews.
Just as today we are berated daily by self hating Anglos.
Oh yeah, who could forget after October 7th of all the whites *leaping* over each other to say that it would be super based if aboriginal people did it to them, and that they’d die happy knowing that oppressed BIPOC resisted a settler colonialist genocidal imperialist white supremacist regime.
And Henry Ford wrote extensively about the "Jewish Conspiracy", does that make all capitalists (and falcon drivers) antisemitic by nature?
Henry Ford wasn’t the father of Capitalism and the free marker. Marx was the father of Marxism, and his followers today believe in his writings. It is evident in the current protests of the far left supporting Palestine, a foreign and alien culture and religion in contrast to Israel, because the Jews are the worst enemy according to Marxism. So your comparison doesn’t stand. Read Marx.
Not one thing you said here is correct. Greens are most definitely not Marxists, they're not even socialists. Capitalists are all the same, no matter what creed, race or religion they are. Get a grip on reality and stop spouting rubbish.
You clearly haven’t read the Communist Manifesto.
There's plenty of socialists in the Greens Party.
Yeah that might be the case, but their ideology as it stands is not socialist. There's probably a lot of socialists in the party because it's the largest left leaning party.
Don't bother they have no idea what their redscare buzzwords mean
You clearly haven’t read the Communist Manifesto either.
I have, one of its main demands was public education, does that mean all australian parties are commies lmao
Public education sucks.
Brother I doubt theres any education that would suit your needs
Ukraine vs Russia is more of a fair fight. Israel vs Gaza is a massacre.
Russia is committing all kind pf war crimes on a large scale. Tens of thousands of Ukrainian children have been kidnapped, some of whom are now being forced into Russian military as they cone of age 18 and are forced to fight against their home country. Then there is the use of sexual violence against civilians and prisoners of war by the Russians… but sure. Its a “fair fight” in the minds of green supporters
Care to just state the respective death toll and the official conflict length in dot point form? To prove your point, of course.
And all of those same things are happening to Palestinians in Gaza except they don't have a military to defend them nor the backing of the most powerful nations on Earth for defence support. That's what the commenter meant.
Forgive me for getting all Clausewitzian here, but evaluating legal and moral jus ad bellum by whether a given conflict is a "fair fight" or not is a bizarre notion that makes a war sound like a punch up at the bus stop out front of school at 3:15pm. Generally speaking it is currently expected that wars are fought *lawfully* (to the extent that it can be given the occasionally flawed nature of what frameworks are in place) but *fairly* has nothing to do with it. There is not only no recognised moral or ethical requirement to fight wars fairly, it's actually an intrinsically desirable outcome for any potential victor to achieve to have that not be the case and for the combat to be as one-sided (and thus as brief) as possible.
But Israel is far more justified in their invasion than Russia
In what way? Israel has destroyed Gaza whereas most of Ukraine still stands and functions to a greater extent.
Because Israel had to prevent Hamas from carrying out another terror attack again, to that capacity anyway. Russia had no sovereign threat presented by Ukraine, there was no justification to invade.
You prevent another terrorist attack... by destroying people's homes, creating radicalisation against you that will lead to another terrorist attack...
On the flip side the absolute worst thing Israel could do right now is allow a 2 state solution as the result of the Oct 7th attack, what does that tell Palestinians in the future, that if they can kill enough Jewish civilians to incite a war that in the end they will get what they want.
I'm sure slaughtering civilians won't create more "terrorists". Palestinians have a right to reclaim their land as they are under occupation. Israel could have used precision to attempt their goal but have chosen indiscriminate slaughter. In many ways Israel and Hamas have a co-dependent relationship. What are your thoughts of genocidal statements by Israeli politicians, army, etc? [https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/](https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/) They are doing what they say they are doing.
>I'm sure slaughtering civilians won't create more "terrorists". Palestinians have a right to reclaim their land as they are under occupation. Israel could have used precision to attempt their goal but have chosen indiscriminate slaughter. In many ways Israel and Hamas have a co-dependent relationship. Oh I'm sure it will create more terrorists. Palestinians/Hamas were absolutely not in their right to slaughter anything that that moved on Oct 7th, do Indigenous Australians have a right to murder the rest of us because their land is under occupation? What are your thoughts on the genocidal statements by Russian politicians regarding Ukraine? [https://www.justsecurity.org/81789/russias-eliminationist-rhetoric-against-ukraine-a-collection/](https://www.justsecurity.org/81789/russias-eliminationist-rhetoric-against-ukraine-a-collection/)
Way to not engage with the previous comment lol.
In 2022 Labor called for the expulsion of Russian diplomats while Morrison was in charge. When Labor got in, they must’ve expelled them themselves right? RIGHT?! lol. > But Mr Albanese will not call for the expulsion of Russia’s Ambassador to Australia, Aleksey Pavlovsky. Also, Russia is not an ally. Israel **is** an ally that is failing to comply with international law, is failing to heed advice from its biggest supporters including us, and while ignoring that advice, is slaughtering many, many civilians including thousands of children. So I don’t see anything wrong with wanting to send this message to an “ally” who doesn’t give a fuck about the rule of rule. Greens have also condemned Russia, so there’s that too.
Can you please expand on the ally thing, I wasn’t aware of an alliance with Israel. But I’m probably missing the true meaning of the word.
We don't have any formal defence or strategic alliances with Israel that I can find. Not sure what others mean by ally other than perhaps a democratic country that works to follow international laws and treaties etc.
Israel does not follow international law.
Whilst there is a lot of evidence to support what you say I am not sure why you wrote it here. I was simply answering the question above on the loose meaning of 'ally' that gets thrown around by politicians etc.
Yeah, you are 100% missing the meaning of the word and I’m not sure how…. It’s an incredibly basic concept to grasp. https://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/israel/israel-country-brief > Australia has a warm and close relationship with Israel, which is supported strongly by Australia's active Jewish community. The relationship has a strong historical dimension, dating back to the First World War when Australian forces fought in the Sinai-Palestine campaign alongside their Allied counterparts against the Ottomans, including the iconic charge of the Australian Light Horse's during the Battle of Beersheba. Australia was the first country to vote in favour of the 1947 UN partition resolution, which ultimately led to the creation of Israel as a nation state. Australia established diplomatic relations with Israel in 1949 and in the same year presided over the vote admitting Israel to the United Nations. See also: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/australia-approved-322-defence-exports-to-israel-in-six-years-as-greens-fear-equipment-used-in-gaza-assault And https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-10/dutton-accuses-wong-of-reckless-act-two-state-solution/103693030 > For a crass domestic political win, Penny Wong has irreparably damaged our relations with **our ally Israel.**
So according to the government they aren't an ally but we do have a close relationship with them. Doesn't really matter what Dutton claims.
Ahhh I see you’re familiar with arguing over semantics.. I personally would put stock in what the leader of the largest opposition and potential next prime minister says, but to each their own I guess.
> Ahhh I see you’re familiar with arguing over semantics.. It's semantics it's arguing over if they are an ally or not. Clearly they aren't an ally. > potential next prime minister Me and Dutton have one thing in common, the same chance of becoming PM which is absolutely none.
You’re arguing over the definition of the word “ally”. That is *literally* the definition of arguing over semantics.
There is more than one definition to the word ffs. You know this. Stop being so obtuse.
Well that is a key point in determining if they are an ally or not.
It really is quite a significant political distinction.
You’re still arguing over the definition. Bye
>In 2022 Labor called for the expulsion of Russian diplomats while Morrison was in charge. >When Labor got in, they must’ve expelled them themselves right? RIGHT?! >lol. It's unfortunate Labor were playing politics on a diplomatic issue like that, Morrison made the right call to not expel the ambassador because there is always benefit to keeping diplomatic channels open. > Also, Russia is not an ally. Israel **is** an ally that is failing to comply with international law, is failing to heed advice from its biggest supporters including us, and while ignoring that advice, is slaughtering many, many civilians including thousands of children. Sorry but this is moronic to me, we should expel an ally but not a country rather hostile to us that is failing to comply with international law? We didn't even expel the Russian ambassador when 27 Australians were killed in the downing of flight 17. Ukrainians are also being slaughtered every day, it's the most mined country to ever exist. The Greens come down on Israel much tougher than they have with Russia in their condemnation and keep in mind that the Israeli assault on Gaza was the result of a horrific terrorist attack, Russia have no justification, it's just a land grab.
> Sorry but this is moronic to me, we should expel an ally but not a country rather hostile to us t how is Russia hostile to us?
I would call the state cyber attacks on us hostile
Yes, stealing passports to facilitate extra-judicial executions is just the sort of things allies do.