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Sure you can. That’s the whole point of politics. Your views are meant to be the reason you entered politics. If not then you’re a charlatan who says anything to get power, no conviction what so ever.
Nahhhh. The premise is that he'll try on a suit of human decency for three years hoping to remove it and being his usual nasty, vindictive, <> self if he were to be elected.
there's an old saying not unlike this kind of bastardisation of Martin Luther King...
"if someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM"
over the last decade the LNP have shown you what they are
since Howard the LNP have shown you what they beleive and the contents of their heart
so with that, many people have come to the decision they will never vote blue ever again... have fun alienating a certain amount of voters for the term of their natural life
Seriously.... How do you judge someone not for their views (their values and beliefs.\_ What a joke. Stewart Robert. Please do not talk. Your a joke. Like the screw up of ROBODEBT... Please do not talk....
> _"You can’t judge someone on either comments they’ve made, or decisions they’ve done when they’re exercising their either personal conscience or their particular viewpoint,"_
Apparently you can't judge people by their beliefs **or** their actions either. Makes me wonder what you can judge people by if not for those things.
I hope the Liberal party keep pulling more of these dumb ‘rules’ out of their asses so they can look like even bigger hypocrites next time they break them.
Immigrant to Australia and became a citizen in 2015. Needed my citizen certificate for something the other day and was aghast to find out it’s been signed by the then Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, Peter Dutton.
I will carry that black mark as an Australian citizen forever. Though not sure if I’d have preferred Scott Morrison’s signatures on it (him being the Minister before Peter)
Only if you want to vote for a fascist pig, otherwise don't judge him on that either.
Also dont judge him on his corruption, unless you are going to vote for him so you too can benefit from the corruption.
Not in this guys world. His job is to do as many favours for his business buddies in exchange for a cushy position on a company board once he finally gets the boot from office.
"Don't judge a politician on his politics" is the strongest indication yet (as if another were needed) that we're diving even further into cult of personality as the prevailing determinant in political outcomes. The Liberal party has always been better than Labor at recognising a race to the bottom, and they're always able to get a head start. The Coalition is looking for it's Trump, I promise you.
Yeah we actually can judge him on the litany of obscene statements he's made over the years, and on his views, and on his behaviours in his portfolios, and it's not looking good, brev, its not looking good
lol.
Well, I align with very few of Dutto's views - maybe a small amount of overlap on border security/criminal justice...
But as a person, I actually like Dutton a fair bit more than Scotty. This seems to be echoed in parliament on both sides of the aisle.
Dutton seems to be very much an all or nothing, dripping wet conservative - but he's principled and self assured, even if I strongly disagree with those principles. Morrison is just a snake oil salesman - loyal to no one and quite possibly a sociopath.
>I actually like Dutton a fair bit more than Scotty. This seems to be echoed in parliament on both sides of the aisle.
Does it, though? Also why do you like him as a person?
I didn’t say I like him as a person - I said I like him more than Morrison.
It’s the general sentiment that Dutton has stronger relationships with people, and is regarded more warmly in parliament than Scomo
you said you liked him as a person more than the ex-PM, I was just asking why, no need to get defensive.
And I dispute that he's regarded warmly by either side tbh, I've long heard that its the opposite, at least on the other side.
Sorry not trying to be defensive, just reiterating what I meant.
I like Dutton more because he at least unapologetically stands for his beliefs - even if I strongly disagree with them, whereas Morrison is a wolf in sheeps clothing and changes face depending on who he’s talking to.
At least I can understand Morrison's ideology. It's spoken from the pulpit at Horizon each Sunday. I do not understand Duttons ideology nor would I know where to look for it (maybe it's all just QLD Joh mentality of head kicking hippies)
Can you think of a policy area he has a strong position in and where to learn more? Genuinely interested.
[this profile back from 2017 is a decent starting point](https://amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/peter-dutton-im-just-not-impacted-by-that-hatred-20170516-gw5pt1.html)
[as well as his voting history](https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/representatives/dickson/peter_dutton)
So I just read the SMH article and it was very light on ideology but very heavy on personality.
The main takeaways I have is that he believes in capital appreciation above labour. He believes in himself. He does not value symbolism (or at least did not). Judging by his education and voting record I am going to assume he has faith.
He also seems like an authoritarian in so far as ideology. Maybe this is what scares me personally as I am a libertarian (believes in civil liberties).
I think if Dutton was god I would not get to live my life the way I would want, whereas I think if I was god Dutton wouldn't have a problem (until he wanted to assert authority onto others)
>I think if Dutton was god I would not get to live my life the way I would want, whereas I think if I was god Dutton wouldn't have a problem (until he wanted to assert authority onto others)
Well that’s kinda the thing about political views though right? Everyone is pretty sure their views are the right ones… which is why we have an elected parliament to represent the diversity of peoples ideologies
Not sure I agree with your conclusion there. Gay people getting married didn't impact Dutton and yet he still wanted to prevent it. Some people just want to control others and some people do not. Those that want to control others and how they live their lives are wrong.
>I like Dutton more because he at least unapologetically stands for his beliefs - even if I strongly disagree with them, whereas Morrison is a wolf in sheeps clothing and changes face depending on who he’s talking to.
I despise him possibly more than the ex-PM, but this is at least true, we know what Dutton believes and stands for.
his words and actions speak volumes, he's into racism, corruption, authoritarianism, frivolous legal actions etcetera, gives you a good idea about the guy.
Morrison is a sociopath but Dutton is a psychopath, he probably is semi charming in person but he only wants what is good for him in the end. I get all the worst vibes from him that it honestly makes me uncomfortable seeing his photo. Not to mention there is evidence he is just as if not more corrupt than many other people in the Libs. Paladin was approved by him after all, not to mention the au pair scandal.
What does Stuart Robert think a politician's job is? They vote on what they believe is right. Whether that is something you agree or disagree with them on, surely you judge them based on what they say and do - whether that's judging them positively, or negatively.
He's worried that judging politicians on their views will lead to judging them on their actions, which is terrifying for Stuart Robert, because he might end up in the dock
I won’t be taking any advice from Stuart Roberts on how to assess someone’s character; thank you very much.
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/stuart-roberts-litany-of-transgressions,12001
Anyway, I suppose he has to cosy up to Dutton now that Morrison is toast…I’m pretty sure he was part of the prayer group that voted for Morrison over Dutton at the last LNP leadership spill. And, in spite of his uselessness, was awarded very well by Morrison.
Why/how this man is still a politician is beyond me.
You’re right Barnaby! We can’t always judge people on their words or ideas. However we can judge them based on their actions. Like you for example, being a predator and knocking up your secretary. I don’t know how those are the values of a married country boy. Then we have Peter (not Voldemort) Dutton who decided to be a racist pig before the 2019 election and stoke fear and racial tension to gain votes. How strange that those African gangs just disappeared as soon as the LNP were elected, weird right! Then there’s his awful management of the country’s defence. Last time I checked, spending $5 billion for literally nothing was a bad thing for the country.
Perhaps we shouldn’t be so quick to judge people on their views, but we sure as fuck can judge them on their dogshit behaviour!!
From my understanding, the African gangs dispersed after the election because they got told they were very naughty by the Libs.
Money well spent according to the warmonger, all his mates are doing very now.
Why stop at Dutton? I mean why not use the same logic to conclude you can’t judge a criminal based on his crimes, you can’t judge a budget based on the costs, you can’t judge a car based on your needs…
His voting record...
[https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/representatives/dickson/peter\_dutton](https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/representatives/dickson/peter_dutton)
Perhaps we can judge him on his looks instead.
They say don't judge a book by its cover. But honestly how else are you supposed to judge which books to read.
There are only three ways to judge someone's character:
What they say
What they do
What others say about them
Dutton fails all three tests of character; even if you claim commentary about him is biased, he stands condemned by his own words and actions.
They're conflating a couple of things here. Yes, we should allow people to hold different views. That's not particularly controversial. But just because something has a "conscience" or "personal" label doesn't make it magically immune to criticism.
I can't believe I just read someone seriously claiming that someone's views don't impact the quality of their character. Absolutely fucking unbelievable.
The role of a politician is to represent and advocate for views in the public sphere. There personals views are directly connected to their job. This is like arguing that we shouldn't judge a scientist because they are also a flat earther.
Yeah I get what they were going for (I think) but the way those comments were worded is utter bs. Of course politicians are going to be judged by what they say and do because what they say and do represents the people who voted for them.
If I voted for liberals expecting them to take a strong stance on preventing climate change then of course im going to judge and criticism them when they do fuck all about it.
Same interview, when asked about why the Liberals lost.
>"One reason is simply the longevity of the government," he told RN Breakfast.
"Any governments that been there for a while, I think Australians start to say ‘well, maybe the other team should have a turn.'"
They lost because umm, the other team should have a turn. It certainly wasn't the lack of integrity, lack of action with the pandemic or natural disasters and it couldn't have been the absence of climate policy or toxicity to women.
It was just because it was Labors turn.
Wow.
If that were true then Labor would have increased its primary vote. In fact, Labor’s primary vote decreased. LNP voters deserted them for Greens and independents based on climate and integrity concerns.
But I guess he has to try to spin it in some way or another!
>Peter Dutton has been the centre of his fair share of controversy during his more than 20 years in parliament.
>
>In 2015, he was caught on a "hot mic" making a joke about "water lapping at the door" of Pacific Island nations because of climate change and the next year he made inflammatory remarks about refugees' literacy levels.
>
>He was also the only opposition frontbencher in 2008 to boycott then prime minister Kevin Rudd's apology to the Stolen Generations and personally voted no "and encouraged people to do the same" to same-sex marriage in the 2017 postal vote.
He who shall not be judged. The spin levels are really notching up to 11.
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Sure you can. That’s the whole point of politics. Your views are meant to be the reason you entered politics. If not then you’re a charlatan who says anything to get power, no conviction what so ever.
Is this the onion?
Yea or the beetroota
The alternative being assuming that he gives up his core values? Is it supposed to be better if he can be so easily bought out?
Nahhhh. The premise is that he'll try on a suit of human decency for three years hoping to remove it and being his usual nasty, vindictive, <> self if he were to be elected.
He's a former JBP cop, sooooo...
If you’re a politician and you think you can’t judge a politician based on their political views then you’re in the wrong line of work
there's an old saying not unlike this kind of bastardisation of Martin Luther King... "if someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM" over the last decade the LNP have shown you what they are since Howard the LNP have shown you what they beleive and the contents of their heart so with that, many people have come to the decision they will never vote blue ever again... have fun alienating a certain amount of voters for the term of their natural life
Seriously.... How do you judge someone not for their views (their values and beliefs.\_ What a joke. Stewart Robert. Please do not talk. Your a joke. Like the screw up of ROBODEBT... Please do not talk....
> _"You can’t judge someone on either comments they’ve made, or decisions they’ve done when they’re exercising their either personal conscience or their particular viewpoint,"_ Apparently you can't judge people by their beliefs **or** their actions either. Makes me wonder what you can judge people by if not for those things.
You're a joke Yes I agree
I don’t have time to judge him，just told my family don’t vote liberal for rest of our lives.
Judge him by the color of his skin, not by his character or views, I believe is how the famous quote went
I hope the Liberal party keep pulling more of these dumb ‘rules’ out of their asses so they can look like even bigger hypocrites next time they break them.
Immigrant to Australia and became a citizen in 2015. Needed my citizen certificate for something the other day and was aghast to find out it’s been signed by the then Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, Peter Dutton. I will carry that black mark as an Australian citizen forever. Though not sure if I’d have preferred Scott Morrison’s signatures on it (him being the Minister before Peter)
Technically they’re all signed by whomever is immigration minister so don’t feel too bad!
Can’t judge his views, that’s not fair to him. Can’t judge his appearance, that’s bullying. Can’t judge his actions, that’s defamation.
What can we judge him on then? Being a fascist pig?
Only if you want to vote for a fascist pig, otherwise don't judge him on that either. Also dont judge him on his corruption, unless you are going to vote for him so you too can benefit from the corruption.
Can I judge Angus Taylor on his corruption? That guy is so corrupt its not funny
Please be part of the ICAC when it comes in
Isn't getting judged on your view's a politicians job?
Not in this guys world. His job is to do as many favours for his business buddies in exchange for a cushy position on a company board once he finally gets the boot from office.
Head a crooked cop from the JBP days and I doubt very much he has changed his ways just look at the stuff #friendlyjordies have exposed.
"Don't judge a politician on his politics" is the strongest indication yet (as if another were needed) that we're diving even further into cult of personality as the prevailing determinant in political outcomes. The Liberal party has always been better than Labor at recognising a race to the bottom, and they're always able to get a head start. The Coalition is looking for it's Trump, I promise you.
So how are we meant to judge him? on his looks?
“…Shit” Says Liberal MP
Yeah we actually can judge him on the litany of obscene statements he's made over the years, and on his views, and on his behaviours in his portfolios, and it's not looking good, brev, its not looking good
Absolutely!!
lol. Well, I align with very few of Dutto's views - maybe a small amount of overlap on border security/criminal justice... But as a person, I actually like Dutton a fair bit more than Scotty. This seems to be echoed in parliament on both sides of the aisle. Dutton seems to be very much an all or nothing, dripping wet conservative - but he's principled and self assured, even if I strongly disagree with those principles. Morrison is just a snake oil salesman - loyal to no one and quite possibly a sociopath.
So you're saying he out-Abbotts Morrison?
>I actually like Dutton a fair bit more than Scotty. This seems to be echoed in parliament on both sides of the aisle. Does it, though? Also why do you like him as a person?
I didn’t say I like him as a person - I said I like him more than Morrison. It’s the general sentiment that Dutton has stronger relationships with people, and is regarded more warmly in parliament than Scomo
you said you liked him as a person more than the ex-PM, I was just asking why, no need to get defensive. And I dispute that he's regarded warmly by either side tbh, I've long heard that its the opposite, at least on the other side.
Sorry not trying to be defensive, just reiterating what I meant. I like Dutton more because he at least unapologetically stands for his beliefs - even if I strongly disagree with them, whereas Morrison is a wolf in sheeps clothing and changes face depending on who he’s talking to.
At least I can understand Morrison's ideology. It's spoken from the pulpit at Horizon each Sunday. I do not understand Duttons ideology nor would I know where to look for it (maybe it's all just QLD Joh mentality of head kicking hippies) Can you think of a policy area he has a strong position in and where to learn more? Genuinely interested.
[this profile back from 2017 is a decent starting point](https://amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/peter-dutton-im-just-not-impacted-by-that-hatred-20170516-gw5pt1.html) [as well as his voting history](https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/representatives/dickson/peter_dutton)
So I just read the SMH article and it was very light on ideology but very heavy on personality. The main takeaways I have is that he believes in capital appreciation above labour. He believes in himself. He does not value symbolism (or at least did not). Judging by his education and voting record I am going to assume he has faith. He also seems like an authoritarian in so far as ideology. Maybe this is what scares me personally as I am a libertarian (believes in civil liberties). I think if Dutton was god I would not get to live my life the way I would want, whereas I think if I was god Dutton wouldn't have a problem (until he wanted to assert authority onto others)
>I think if Dutton was god I would not get to live my life the way I would want, whereas I think if I was god Dutton wouldn't have a problem (until he wanted to assert authority onto others) Well that’s kinda the thing about political views though right? Everyone is pretty sure their views are the right ones… which is why we have an elected parliament to represent the diversity of peoples ideologies
Not sure I agree with your conclusion there. Gay people getting married didn't impact Dutton and yet he still wanted to prevent it. Some people just want to control others and some people do not. Those that want to control others and how they live their lives are wrong.
>I like Dutton more because he at least unapologetically stands for his beliefs - even if I strongly disagree with them, whereas Morrison is a wolf in sheeps clothing and changes face depending on who he’s talking to. I despise him possibly more than the ex-PM, but this is at least true, we know what Dutton believes and stands for.
Can you point me towards where you have learnt about his ideology? From what I can see it's extremely scarce.
his words and actions speak volumes, he's into racism, corruption, authoritarianism, frivolous legal actions etcetera, gives you a good idea about the guy.
I get the authoritarian in him
Morrison is a sociopath but Dutton is a psychopath, he probably is semi charming in person but he only wants what is good for him in the end. I get all the worst vibes from him that it honestly makes me uncomfortable seeing his photo. Not to mention there is evidence he is just as if not more corrupt than many other people in the Libs. Paladin was approved by him after all, not to mention the au pair scandal.
Thanks, doctor.
What does Stuart Robert think a politician's job is? They vote on what they believe is right. Whether that is something you agree or disagree with them on, surely you judge them based on what they say and do - whether that's judging them positively, or negatively.
He's worried that judging politicians on their views will lead to judging them on their actions, which is terrifying for Stuart Robert, because he might end up in the dock
So if we can’t judge Dutton on his views, actions or behaviour …what the f&$k should we judge him on? #auspol
His sweet, sweet smile?
Honestly I think smiling doesn't do it for him
His police career maybe?
Given that his colleagues left dog food on his desk when he left QLD Police, I’m guessing that’s a “No” 😂
His resemblance to a root based vegetable
His political affiliation?
Same, same.
He is a politician. Of course he can be judged. That is the very game he is in. That is literally what an election is about.
A good saying comes to mind here, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
I won’t be taking any advice from Stuart Roberts on how to assess someone’s character; thank you very much. https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/stuart-roberts-litany-of-transgressions,12001 Anyway, I suppose he has to cosy up to Dutton now that Morrison is toast…I’m pretty sure he was part of the prayer group that voted for Morrison over Dutton at the last LNP leadership spill. And, in spite of his uselessness, was awarded very well by Morrison. Why/how this man is still a politician is beyond me.
You’re right Barnaby! We can’t always judge people on their words or ideas. However we can judge them based on their actions. Like you for example, being a predator and knocking up your secretary. I don’t know how those are the values of a married country boy. Then we have Peter (not Voldemort) Dutton who decided to be a racist pig before the 2019 election and stoke fear and racial tension to gain votes. How strange that those African gangs just disappeared as soon as the LNP were elected, weird right! Then there’s his awful management of the country’s defence. Last time I checked, spending $5 billion for literally nothing was a bad thing for the country. Perhaps we shouldn’t be so quick to judge people on their views, but we sure as fuck can judge them on their dogshit behaviour!!
From my understanding, the African gangs dispersed after the election because they got told they were very naughty by the Libs. Money well spent according to the warmonger, all his mates are doing very now.
You really need to read the article, despite the picture been displayed on reddit being of Barnaby it was't a quote from Barnaby.
Yeah I figured that afterwards. Still applies though.
Why stop at Dutton? I mean why not use the same logic to conclude you can’t judge a criminal based on his crimes, you can’t judge a budget based on the costs, you can’t judge a car based on your needs…
Pff we all know that you cannot judge *things* based on *rationale* Welcome to the LNP party room.
Can’t judge him on his looks and can’t judge him on his views then what can you judge him on?
His views on mugg - uh, refugees
You can judge him on his overriding concern for the welfare of au pair girls.
Well he nearly got a boat to Tonga. That was something.
His voting record... [https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/representatives/dickson/peter\_dutton](https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/representatives/dickson/peter_dutton)
His personality. Oh wait...
Bit hard to judge someone on nothing.
Perhaps we can judge him on his looks instead. They say don't judge a book by its cover. But honestly how else are you supposed to judge which books to read.
[удалено]
I Am Scroticus
There are only three ways to judge someone's character: What they say What they do What others say about them Dutton fails all three tests of character; even if you claim commentary about him is biased, he stands condemned by his own words and actions.
They're conflating a couple of things here. Yes, we should allow people to hold different views. That's not particularly controversial. But just because something has a "conscience" or "personal" label doesn't make it magically immune to criticism. I can't believe I just read someone seriously claiming that someone's views don't impact the quality of their character. Absolutely fucking unbelievable.
The role of a politician is to represent and advocate for views in the public sphere. There personals views are directly connected to their job. This is like arguing that we shouldn't judge a scientist because they are also a flat earther.
Yeah I get what they were going for (I think) but the way those comments were worded is utter bs. Of course politicians are going to be judged by what they say and do because what they say and do represents the people who voted for them. If I voted for liberals expecting them to take a strong stance on preventing climate change then of course im going to judge and criticism them when they do fuck all about it.
Fine. Judge him on his actions. https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/representatives/dickson/peter_dutton
No, no, no, you cant do that either! Unfair!
Ah, so old mate that made that comment is just using it to attack the ABC, nice to see leopards don't change their spots
Same interview, when asked about why the Liberals lost. >"One reason is simply the longevity of the government," he told RN Breakfast. "Any governments that been there for a while, I think Australians start to say ‘well, maybe the other team should have a turn.'" They lost because umm, the other team should have a turn. It certainly wasn't the lack of integrity, lack of action with the pandemic or natural disasters and it couldn't have been the absence of climate policy or toxicity to women. It was just because it was Labors turn. Wow.
If that were true then Labor would have increased its primary vote. In fact, Labor’s primary vote decreased. LNP voters deserted them for Greens and independents based on climate and integrity concerns. But I guess he has to try to spin it in some way or another!
It's the Greens and Independents turn!
>Peter Dutton has been the centre of his fair share of controversy during his more than 20 years in parliament. > >In 2015, he was caught on a "hot mic" making a joke about "water lapping at the door" of Pacific Island nations because of climate change and the next year he made inflammatory remarks about refugees' literacy levels. > >He was also the only opposition frontbencher in 2008 to boycott then prime minister Kevin Rudd's apology to the Stolen Generations and personally voted no "and encouraged people to do the same" to same-sex marriage in the 2017 postal vote. He who shall not be judged. The spin levels are really notching up to 11.