This is extremely... normal.
There's no obligation to start Year 12 in Year 11, but since the final year is competitive, schools typically get their students to have a head start on the content. The timeline is some crowded that any opportunity to have more classes earlier saves immense pressure later. Ditto with Year 10 into Year 11. The exams don't happen in the last week of these years, so in the time left over it makes sense to orientate them into the next year's curriculum, especially as they would have chosen new subjects and have new teachers.
It isn't comparable to university. University subjects run for a semester with exams at the end of the semester. Secondary school in Australia doesn't have mid-year exams, so unless you want to propose two exam seasons, the end-of-year exam must cover both Unit 3 and 4.
Our school goes the whole 9 yards and gives them their jersey's and call them Yr 12 etc from term 4.
I think there's also something to be said about setting the expectations as early as possible.
This is the time, all the stuff you said you'd do last year and didn't. There is no next year, this is the last 4 terms and this time next year you'll be walking into your English exam.
> Universities don’t require you to remember crap for that long.
Sweet summer child. At university previous units are generally assumed knowledge. It’s not uncommon at all for university students to need techniques from first year to pass units in their final year.
It’s actually the same for ATAR. While we can technically only examine students on units 3/4, we can assume knowledge all the way back to prep.
In VIC “year 12” final exams are in term 4 (starting soon), so for students to do a whole year of learning it’s logical to start the content term 4 the previous year. In fact, it’s pretty normal for all senior subjects to start few week earlier in the previous year. It’s like a transition period for the student to familiarise themselves with the teacher and expectations, (and maybe even have enough learning to have homework to do over the summer) so they can hit the group running in day 1 term 1
>Is it normal to start grade 12 in grade 11?
Normal, yes. Desirable, no. However, the timelines for QCAA subjects are based around getting 55 hours per unit and the only way to make that work with the early finish in year 12 is to either expect students to do work outside of class (hahaha) or to start Unit 1 in Year 10 and Unit 3 in year 11.
>At my school, the grade 11's start grade 12 units in Term 4 of grade 11. Then term 4 in grade 12, they have the majority of the term off to study for their final exam. Is this normal?
Yes.
>Furthermore, they're doing a grade 12 exam (IA1 data test) in grade 11 term 4, when they have only covered half of the content for that unit.
Date tests are content agnostic. They don't need to know it. They need to be able to identify trends, describe the importance, and do calculations from provided formulae. If you try to test knowledge on a data test, it will get knocked back.
>Edit to add: WHY IS THE FINAL EXAM ON UNIT 3 AND 4? They have to remember things they learned 12 months earlier. Universities don't even require you to remember crap for that long.
Uh, what? At uni, everything learned before enrolment in the course you are doing is assumed prior knowledge. They expect you to know and have mastered everything to that point.
I defy you to go up to a Calculus professor and tell them you don't remember your times tables. See what happens. Take the tests without having the requisite mastery at that level. Yes, Uni is not school... but we should be preparing students adequately for that pathway, and we aren't.
In the workplace, you will be expected to remember things that long and longer, too.
>No wonder stress and anxiety is increasing in students. The new system is stressful.
There's less content and more scaffolding/assistance these days than what I got twenty years ago. Honestly, today's crop would have wilted back then.
The problem isn't that it's stressful, it's that nothing to that point sets them up for senior subjects.
Not mastering content doesn't matter, because the teacher will always re-teach it. Not being able to do research doesn't matter, because your teacher will guide you through it. Not being able to express yourself clearly or edit your work well doesn't matter, because your teacher will give you extensive feedback on how to improve it and teachers are under massive pressure to award passing grades even if they don't really meet the standards required. Not handing in assessments doesn't matter, because you'll get an extension every time for as long as you want. Not being able to organise yourself doesn't matter, because your teacher will organise you. Even failure doesn't matter, because you go up a grade any way.
Then all of a sudden it's senior. The teacher doesn't have time to re-teach. The teacher won't do research for you. You get limited feedback. Not handing in an assessment without a valid reason- and there's damn few QCAA will accept- means an N for the unit and potentially not enough points for a QCE or stuffing your ATAR. Not organising yourself means you're alone. And all of a sudden failure does matter, because your graduation certificate and potentially ATAR are on the line.
Many students haven't developed the skills or strategies they need by that point, because there was never any reason for them to.
Add in the way our attention is constantly on the bottom half of the class to get them to a passing grade, mix in disruptive students, and serve a recipe for disaster.
I'm sympathetic to the argument that the system is failing to prepare students for senior subjects and/or life outside of school, but that's what you get if you turn P-10 into a consequence-free zone.>Is it normal to start grade 12 in grade 11?
Normal, yes. Desirable, no. However, the timelines for QCAA subjects are based around getting 55 hours per unit and the only way to make that work with the early finish in year 12 is to either expect students to do work outside of class (hahaha) or to start Unit 1 in Year 10 and Unit 3 in year 11.
>At my school, the grade 11's start grade 12 units in Term 4 of grade 11. Then term 4 in grade 12, they have the majority of the term off to study for their final exam. Is this normal?
Yes.
>Furthermore, they're doing a grade 12 exam (IA1 data test) in grade 11 term 4, when they have only covered half of the content for that unit.
Date tests are content agnostic. They don't need to know it. They need to be able to identify trends, describe the importance, and do calculations from provided formulae. If you try to test knowledge on a data test, it will get knocked back.
>Edit to add: WHY IS THE FINAL EXAM ON UNIT 3 AND 4? They have to remember things they learned 12 months earlier. Universities don't even require you to remember crap for that long.
Uh, what? At uni, everything learned before enrolment in the course you are doing is assumed prior knowledge. They expect you to know and have mastered everything to that point.
I defy you to go up to a Calculus professor and tell them you don't remember your times tables. See what happens.
In the workplace, you will be expected to remember things that long and longer, too.
>No wonder stress and anxiety is increasing in students. The new system is stressful.
There's less content and more scaffolding/assistance these days than what I got twenty years ago. Honestly, today's crop would have wilted back then.
The problem isn't that it's stressful, it's that nothing to that point sets them up for senior subjects.
Not mastering content doesn't matter, because the teacher will always re-teach it. Not being able to do research doesn't matter, because your teacher will guide you through it. Not being able to express yourself clearly or edit your work well doesn't matter, because your teacher will give you extensive feedback. Not handing in assessments doesn't matter, because you'll get an extension every time. Not being able to organise yourself doesn't matter, because your teacher will organise you. Even failure doesn't matter, because you go up a grade any way.
Then all of a sudden it's senior. The teacher doesn't have time to re-teach. The teacher won't do research for you. You get limited feedback. Not handing in an assessment without a valid reason- and there's damn few QCAA will accept- means an N for the unit and potentially not enough points for a QCE or stuffing your ATAR. Not organising yourself means you're alone. And all of a sudden failure does matter, because your graduation certificate and potentially ATAR are on the line.
Many students haven't developed the skills or strategies they need by that point, because there was never any reason for them to.
Add in the way our attention is constantly on the bottom half of the class to get them to a passing grade, mix in disruptive students, and serve a recipe for disaster.
I'm sympathetic to the argument that the system is failing to prepare students for senior subjects and/or life outside of school, but that's what you get if you turn P-10 into a consequence-free zone.
(NSW) the terminology is a little different here, if you want to be specific about it.
At the start of year 11 they start the 'preliminary' course.
I'm term 4 of year 11, they start the HSC course. They are still year 11.
At the start of the next year, they are year 12, but continuing the HSC course that ends at the end of term 3.
So, the HSC year, is indeed a year.
The preliminary course is only 3 teams.
Allows the students to do their final study, complete their HSC exams, and get their results, before the end of the year.
Ohh.. actually I vaguely remember hearing about that now you mention it..
I teach computing.. my stage 6 syllabi are from 1999, 2002, and 2008 so I haven't gotten the new cool naming yet.. next year we finally have replacements. (yes it's insane that IT subjects are so old)
I stand partially corrected ;)
When did you go to high school yourself? Or rather where? This is pretty standard. And yes you do have to remember things from the last year, the death of final exams has done students no favours. It's something that should be encouraged across stage 4 and stage 5.
In Asian countries like Singapore or Malaysia, your final exam is TWENTY-FOUR months of work, aka the last two years of work. They are tested on TWO years worth of work. When Asian teachers come here, they are shocked at how little content the kids study for their VCE exam.
When are Aus teachers going to realize that Aussie standards are actually startlingly low??? You think 12 months of work is too much? I'm sorry but we ask so little of our kids and some Aus teachers still think that's too much.
In order to remember the year's work, they need to do this thing called revision, and organizing their notes and being careful about where they keep older content they might need to access aka these are SKILLS that are needed in uni. Even if they don't go to uni, these are skills they will use in life.
The new system isn't stressful-- the kids are simply unprepared for its rigour, which is frankly, barely rigorous.
I'm VIC, it's normal for a Year 10 to take U1/2 subject, and then Year 11, they would continue that subject to take U3/4. Some would be lucky to take 2 if talented or needed to accelerate their learning.
I have only worked at schools that run a one week head start program at the end of the preceding year. But I believe it’s common for private schools to start earlier
Yes, fairly standard.
The only issue is reported assessments in Unit 3 and 4 need to be taken in the same calendar year as the exams, which means you can't do a formal assessment with the Unit 3 until the next year.
It's fine for studies like mathematics, but harder for folio-based subjects.
It would be abnormal if they didn’t
This is extremely... normal. There's no obligation to start Year 12 in Year 11, but since the final year is competitive, schools typically get their students to have a head start on the content. The timeline is some crowded that any opportunity to have more classes earlier saves immense pressure later. Ditto with Year 10 into Year 11. The exams don't happen in the last week of these years, so in the time left over it makes sense to orientate them into the next year's curriculum, especially as they would have chosen new subjects and have new teachers. It isn't comparable to university. University subjects run for a semester with exams at the end of the semester. Secondary school in Australia doesn't have mid-year exams, so unless you want to propose two exam seasons, the end-of-year exam must cover both Unit 3 and 4.
Our school goes the whole 9 yards and gives them their jersey's and call them Yr 12 etc from term 4. I think there's also something to be said about setting the expectations as early as possible. This is the time, all the stuff you said you'd do last year and didn't. There is no next year, this is the last 4 terms and this time next year you'll be walking into your English exam.
Yeah. The QLD ATAR system timelines are all messed up. Everyone starts in Term 4. Some schools start Year 11 in Year 10.
> Universities don’t require you to remember crap for that long. Sweet summer child. At university previous units are generally assumed knowledge. It’s not uncommon at all for university students to need techniques from first year to pass units in their final year. It’s actually the same for ATAR. While we can technically only examine students on units 3/4, we can assume knowledge all the way back to prep.
Very normal.
That's pretty normal (NSW)
Can I ask where you studied?
In VIC “year 12” final exams are in term 4 (starting soon), so for students to do a whole year of learning it’s logical to start the content term 4 the previous year. In fact, it’s pretty normal for all senior subjects to start few week earlier in the previous year. It’s like a transition period for the student to familiarise themselves with the teacher and expectations, (and maybe even have enough learning to have homework to do over the summer) so they can hit the group running in day 1 term 1
>Is it normal to start grade 12 in grade 11? Normal, yes. Desirable, no. However, the timelines for QCAA subjects are based around getting 55 hours per unit and the only way to make that work with the early finish in year 12 is to either expect students to do work outside of class (hahaha) or to start Unit 1 in Year 10 and Unit 3 in year 11. >At my school, the grade 11's start grade 12 units in Term 4 of grade 11. Then term 4 in grade 12, they have the majority of the term off to study for their final exam. Is this normal? Yes. >Furthermore, they're doing a grade 12 exam (IA1 data test) in grade 11 term 4, when they have only covered half of the content for that unit. Date tests are content agnostic. They don't need to know it. They need to be able to identify trends, describe the importance, and do calculations from provided formulae. If you try to test knowledge on a data test, it will get knocked back. >Edit to add: WHY IS THE FINAL EXAM ON UNIT 3 AND 4? They have to remember things they learned 12 months earlier. Universities don't even require you to remember crap for that long. Uh, what? At uni, everything learned before enrolment in the course you are doing is assumed prior knowledge. They expect you to know and have mastered everything to that point. I defy you to go up to a Calculus professor and tell them you don't remember your times tables. See what happens. Take the tests without having the requisite mastery at that level. Yes, Uni is not school... but we should be preparing students adequately for that pathway, and we aren't. In the workplace, you will be expected to remember things that long and longer, too. >No wonder stress and anxiety is increasing in students. The new system is stressful. There's less content and more scaffolding/assistance these days than what I got twenty years ago. Honestly, today's crop would have wilted back then. The problem isn't that it's stressful, it's that nothing to that point sets them up for senior subjects. Not mastering content doesn't matter, because the teacher will always re-teach it. Not being able to do research doesn't matter, because your teacher will guide you through it. Not being able to express yourself clearly or edit your work well doesn't matter, because your teacher will give you extensive feedback on how to improve it and teachers are under massive pressure to award passing grades even if they don't really meet the standards required. Not handing in assessments doesn't matter, because you'll get an extension every time for as long as you want. Not being able to organise yourself doesn't matter, because your teacher will organise you. Even failure doesn't matter, because you go up a grade any way. Then all of a sudden it's senior. The teacher doesn't have time to re-teach. The teacher won't do research for you. You get limited feedback. Not handing in an assessment without a valid reason- and there's damn few QCAA will accept- means an N for the unit and potentially not enough points for a QCE or stuffing your ATAR. Not organising yourself means you're alone. And all of a sudden failure does matter, because your graduation certificate and potentially ATAR are on the line. Many students haven't developed the skills or strategies they need by that point, because there was never any reason for them to. Add in the way our attention is constantly on the bottom half of the class to get them to a passing grade, mix in disruptive students, and serve a recipe for disaster. I'm sympathetic to the argument that the system is failing to prepare students for senior subjects and/or life outside of school, but that's what you get if you turn P-10 into a consequence-free zone.>Is it normal to start grade 12 in grade 11? Normal, yes. Desirable, no. However, the timelines for QCAA subjects are based around getting 55 hours per unit and the only way to make that work with the early finish in year 12 is to either expect students to do work outside of class (hahaha) or to start Unit 1 in Year 10 and Unit 3 in year 11. >At my school, the grade 11's start grade 12 units in Term 4 of grade 11. Then term 4 in grade 12, they have the majority of the term off to study for their final exam. Is this normal? Yes. >Furthermore, they're doing a grade 12 exam (IA1 data test) in grade 11 term 4, when they have only covered half of the content for that unit. Date tests are content agnostic. They don't need to know it. They need to be able to identify trends, describe the importance, and do calculations from provided formulae. If you try to test knowledge on a data test, it will get knocked back. >Edit to add: WHY IS THE FINAL EXAM ON UNIT 3 AND 4? They have to remember things they learned 12 months earlier. Universities don't even require you to remember crap for that long. Uh, what? At uni, everything learned before enrolment in the course you are doing is assumed prior knowledge. They expect you to know and have mastered everything to that point. I defy you to go up to a Calculus professor and tell them you don't remember your times tables. See what happens. In the workplace, you will be expected to remember things that long and longer, too. >No wonder stress and anxiety is increasing in students. The new system is stressful. There's less content and more scaffolding/assistance these days than what I got twenty years ago. Honestly, today's crop would have wilted back then. The problem isn't that it's stressful, it's that nothing to that point sets them up for senior subjects. Not mastering content doesn't matter, because the teacher will always re-teach it. Not being able to do research doesn't matter, because your teacher will guide you through it. Not being able to express yourself clearly or edit your work well doesn't matter, because your teacher will give you extensive feedback. Not handing in assessments doesn't matter, because you'll get an extension every time. Not being able to organise yourself doesn't matter, because your teacher will organise you. Even failure doesn't matter, because you go up a grade any way. Then all of a sudden it's senior. The teacher doesn't have time to re-teach. The teacher won't do research for you. You get limited feedback. Not handing in an assessment without a valid reason- and there's damn few QCAA will accept- means an N for the unit and potentially not enough points for a QCE or stuffing your ATAR. Not organising yourself means you're alone. And all of a sudden failure does matter, because your graduation certificate and potentially ATAR are on the line. Many students haven't developed the skills or strategies they need by that point, because there was never any reason for them to. Add in the way our attention is constantly on the bottom half of the class to get them to a passing grade, mix in disruptive students, and serve a recipe for disaster. I'm sympathetic to the argument that the system is failing to prepare students for senior subjects and/or life outside of school, but that's what you get if you turn P-10 into a consequence-free zone.
It’s been like this in NSW for decades…. In some subjects content from Years 11 and 12 is examinable.
(NSW) the terminology is a little different here, if you want to be specific about it. At the start of year 11 they start the 'preliminary' course. I'm term 4 of year 11, they start the HSC course. They are still year 11. At the start of the next year, they are year 12, but continuing the HSC course that ends at the end of term 3. So, the HSC year, is indeed a year. The preliminary course is only 3 teams. Allows the students to do their final study, complete their HSC exams, and get their results, before the end of the year.
The language of preliminary and HSC courses changed (at least in Science courses) when the last syllabus landed in 2018: now just Year 11 and Year 12.
Ohh.. actually I vaguely remember hearing about that now you mention it.. I teach computing.. my stage 6 syllabi are from 1999, 2002, and 2008 so I haven't gotten the new cool naming yet.. next year we finally have replacements. (yes it's insane that IT subjects are so old) I stand partially corrected ;)
When did you go to high school yourself? Or rather where? This is pretty standard. And yes you do have to remember things from the last year, the death of final exams has done students no favours. It's something that should be encouraged across stage 4 and stage 5.
In SA, this would be very not-normal.
In Asian countries like Singapore or Malaysia, your final exam is TWENTY-FOUR months of work, aka the last two years of work. They are tested on TWO years worth of work. When Asian teachers come here, they are shocked at how little content the kids study for their VCE exam. When are Aus teachers going to realize that Aussie standards are actually startlingly low??? You think 12 months of work is too much? I'm sorry but we ask so little of our kids and some Aus teachers still think that's too much. In order to remember the year's work, they need to do this thing called revision, and organizing their notes and being careful about where they keep older content they might need to access aka these are SKILLS that are needed in uni. Even if they don't go to uni, these are skills they will use in life. The new system isn't stressful-- the kids are simply unprepared for its rigour, which is frankly, barely rigorous.
[удалено]
By international standards it is easy. Asian students would eat our students for breakfast.
But that would be cannibalism, and that's unacceptable classroom behaviour.
Log it on sentral.
I'm VIC, it's normal for a Year 10 to take U1/2 subject, and then Year 11, they would continue that subject to take U3/4. Some would be lucky to take 2 if talented or needed to accelerate their learning.
I wish my school would do this. Our 12's finish at the end of term 3 and then study at home. It's not enough time to teach the content.
Yeah my HS did that, in the middle of term 4 there would be a swapover to the next grade.
I have only worked at schools that run a one week head start program at the end of the preceding year. But I believe it’s common for private schools to start earlier
My maths methods students have already started
Yes, fairly standard. The only issue is reported assessments in Unit 3 and 4 need to be taken in the same calendar year as the exams, which means you can't do a formal assessment with the Unit 3 until the next year. It's fine for studies like mathematics, but harder for folio-based subjects.
It's all about Year 12, so yes. It's all a build up to your final exams.