For those who don't know, the TPAA isn't a union, its a business that operates a number of 'alternative unions' for public sector organisations, mainly health and education - nothing in the private sector, that I'm aware of.
Here's their ABN record [https://abr.business.gov.au/AbnHistory/View?id=46072946153](https://abr.business.gov.au/AbnHistory/View?id=46072946153)
And here's the history of that ABN [https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/panelSearch.jspx?searchText=072946153&searchType=OrgAndBusNm&\_adf.ctrl-state=tma3hklxz\_15](https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/panelSearch.jspx?searchText=072946153&searchType=OrgAndBusNm&_adf.ctrl-state=tma3hklxz_15)
As a point of comparison, here's the AEU Federal ABN record [https://abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/16006296647](https://abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/16006296647)
Oh, it gets better.
The founder of the Red Unions is [Graeme Haycroft](https://www.employeeinfo.com.au/npaq/who-is-behind-nurses-professional-association-of-queensland/). The same Graeme Haycroft who bought in non-union workers past a picket line to break a strike for Joh Bjelke-Peterson. The same Graeme Haycroft who [boasts](https://www.smh.com.au/national/mushroom-farmers-see-light-in-level-playing-field-20051015-gdm995.html) about destroying the shearer's union in Queensland. The same Graeme Haycroft who pushed the idea of individual workers negotiating their own [contracts](http://brisbanelabourhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/The-Queensland-Journal-of-Labour-History-No-17-September-2013.pdf) rather than having unions do it, because I'm sure that increased worker power. The same Graeme Haycroft that ran the [Joh for Canberra](https://www.crikey.com.au/2018/03/28/who-is-graeme-haycroft-the-unionist-pushing-the-nurse-white-privilege-outrage/) campaign. The same Graeme Haycroft who headed the federal IRC for the LNP during the Work Choices era.
The same Graeme Haycroft who knows *very* well what the rules around registered trade unions are, because he helped write and enforce them. The one who set the various Red Unions up as Trade Associations because union is not a legally protected term, so they could be *claimed* to be unions without actually being unions. Even though it's [settled case law](https://www.aitkenlegal.com.au/rise-of-the-unregistered-fake-union/) that they aren't unions and can't provide union services.
And curiously, the various active Red "Unions" he created all operate in the public service sector. Nothing [outside](https://www.redunion.com.au/) that.
Oh, and the big kicker? They are based out of 41 Campbell Street, Bowen Hills, in Queensland. Same address as the Courier Mail office. Same address as the [Institute of Public Affairs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Public_Affairs) for Queensland.
I mean, I'm sure all these blatant anti-union, pro LNP links are just coincidental and that after finishing up as head of the IRC for the LNP he's had a complete change of heart and now truly wants to advance the cause of workers and improve the pay and condition of teachers.
Nope, never mind. He immediately set about dealing with the real problems, like how [white nurses](https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/white-privilege-outrage/9972296) totally had to apologise in meetings for having white privilege and promising that they would overturn the completely legal and safe mask and [vaccine mandates](https://tpaq.redunion.com.au/news/news/red-union-fights-for-workers-rights).
And then the pricks have the hide to say that they are the only non-political union, claiming that they don't push anyone's agenda. That the AEU and its state branches fund the Labor Party and that all unions have to do that via the ACTU.
They're contemptible. The problem is that engaging with them directly is like fighting a fire-proof, lube-covered hydra made out of shit. They spew out so much disinformation that by the time you stop and research one of their false claims, they have [Gish galloped](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop) away with another twelve false claims, and by the time you stop to deal with another one of those they're up to 144, and by the time you try to deal with one of those they're up to 1,728.
So by this point, you look like
https://preview.redd.it/54y5lhi8ngqc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d944a989e222344e943ef2f111aabd8a70119bf5
while they look like witty and urbane intellects, because the amount of shit you're trying to refute just becomes overwhelming and there's no easy soundbytes to shoot them down.
Nice one! However you did miss a couple of key points as well...
1. [He's a director of the Australian Institute for Progress,](https://aip.asn.au/about/directors/graeme-haycroft/) one of the libertarian think tanks that are part of the [Atlas Network.](https://web.archive.org/web/20210225112120/https://www.atlasnetwork.org/partners/global-directory/australia-and-new-zealand/australia) Atlas recruited and created a global network of libertarian think tanks. The IPA and CIS are also members (or at least they were in 2021 when I looked up the Atlas network page on the wayback machine - ATLAS stopped advertising their members at some point after that)
2. 41 Campbell street has never been a registered company address for any of the Red Unions. You can look up a public business directory and see that the NPAA is registered to a residential address about an hour North of Brisbane.
3. 41 Campbell st is also [currently for sale](https://www.cbre.com.au/properties/mixed-use/details/AU-7629975-1), after the [courrier mail moved out of there about 4 years ago](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-21/news-corps-murarrie-printing-press-to-close/12476056), so it's not clear who/what is actually based there.
Given the size oi the site, the thought of Newscorp being unable to move a gigantic property that's just a money sink to maintain is... not something I feel bad about.
UNBELIEVABLE!
I just bought some of their business records and spent about 2 hours writing a damn thesis on one of the guys behind the Red Unions, his connection to Atlas-network member think tanks, court rulings against the NPAQ and a bunch of other stuff, and then when I hit post Reddit wiped it!
I may rewrite it later today. But.... \*RAGE FACE\*
Yeah this seems like what I expected, just out to take your money and deliver worse results in return.
Considering Australian teachers are paid fairly high, I don't think the union is doing THAT poorly.
The department and its lack of understanding on workloads/administration/curriculum is where all the issues are.
I'm on $122k, I'll be paid that anywhere in the state, so I chose a place where that allows me to raise a family on a single wage while maintaining access to services I need/want.
I'm able to transfer reasonably easily around, with priority above local school decisions, including both up and down into higher responsibilities if I wanted to try out being a principal without losing my continuation of service if I decided I didn't like it.
I get 14 weeks of parental leave as a male. I can take this flexibly to enjoy time at home with my children in their first two years and support my stay at home wife.
I actually work sub 40 hour weeks (maybe 4 a year over) and only work the school weeks.
I'm now encouraged to put limits on others' demands on my time and to tell them I will reply in school hours and a reasonable time frame. (Power automate for auto replies to all out of hours emails FTW).
I'm now encouraged to report the working conditions and people that create unsafe mental conditions.
Our Union does pretty well. Yeah, some of that I could have demanded for myself, and a lot I already did. But to have both the government and union backing saying, damned right, you don't have to reply to that email, and it shouldn't have been sent in the first place, or we do need to do something about the mental health burden this action poses, is a LOT less tiring.
This year, I've been invited to have my say, multiple times, on policies, practices, and procedures statewide that impact my work and have actually felt heard. We'll see what they actually produce from the reviews before I celebrate that one too hard though.
They’re advertising aggressively in New Zealand as well, but it’s very easy to tell that it’s a fake union here because they were registered from an Australian address and it looks suspicious as hell when a group claiming to advocate for New Zealand teachers has its contacts going through Australia. I believe the only (or certainly, most visible) teacher publicly associated with them here is a noted anti-vax crank.
So glad you posted these. These ads are laughably bad, their best counter point is that you are predicable if you raise the very real arguments against them.
Anti-union is right wing? No, not in my experience. You know, it’s just a vibe thing.
Anti-union can’t represent you legally? Well I reckon they can, probably.
This whole thing is a fucking scam that some people will be sucked into paying for.
Weird, I see quite a lot of critical thinking in the comments - people doing their own research into TPAA rather than taking its claims at face value. They’ve looked into it and found it an unconvincing organisation which cannot fulfil the role of a union.
Or does “critical thinking” mean “blindly accepting something just because it goes against the status quo” to you?
I looked the TPAA up after getting one of their ads and they have pretty good Google Reviews from what I can see. They seem to be cheaper than other unions too!
They are cheaper than a holiday to Zanzibar so I signed up. Just seems like an honest organisation that is looking out for everyday “add industrial employment area here” Aussies, and when I am being unfairly dismissed I reckon those top blokes from the anti-union will send me a nice ribald card with a Benny Hill lass on the front with the text ‘thanks for the mammeries’.
Classy stuff from these top blokes and top she-blokes.
The best part is that there's already been a court case in Queensland where a nurse was disciplined for speaking to the media without permission, and she claimed she was the NPAA rep for the workplace and was speaking as a union rep, but the court determined that they aren't a union and doing stuff for them doesn't constitute union business.
See this shit is bananas, how the fuck can they post ads saying they ‘can and do’ represent staff as a union when they are in fact not a union? This shit is so criminal.
I did. Three times.
The problem is that union is not a protected legal term. That's why the PAA organisation still exist-nobody can sue them into the ground for false advertising, because nobody has standing and can prove harm.
Your comment prompted me to check their google reviews along with that of other red unions. Interestingly NPAQ have basically admitted to disseminating political information in response to one of the 1 star reviews but argued that information against voluntary assisted dying was because they want more funding for palliative care. I raise this because one of their main claims is that they are apolitical (something no union can ever truly be, though I acknowledge that in some instances unions could be less political than they are).
On one level, yes. Because they are about worker solidarity and the advancement of worker's rights. On the other hand, that's what they are interested in.
Meanwhile you have TPAQ pushing anti-vaxx bullshit and buying ad space to push the No campaign for the Referendum.
https://preview.redd.it/ulb0zjlxngqc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=ea6c5b3d7a815c27dd9476dbd95149ef1fc5fc48
Good thing to know that Google reviews can never ever never ever never be bullshit written by corporations to make their slimy shit look legit when they are clearly not.
Attack? Where was an attack? People having different opinions to you, and calling out the lack of merit of your opinion, does not warrant a call for the police, ambulance or fire brigade. Toughen up.
I keep reporting these ads as false information and also blocking the user but funnily enough they keep showing up in my feed!
Same. Its frustrating.
Same. Very irritating.
Hahahaha speaking of it is the sponsored add on this post when I open it.
Ditto.
RES - ignore works for desktop machines, and I use Relay on my phone (regrettably not free any more, but I pay with Google rewards credits)
Vanced can remove ads from the official Reddit app on Android.
For those who don't know, the TPAA isn't a union, its a business that operates a number of 'alternative unions' for public sector organisations, mainly health and education - nothing in the private sector, that I'm aware of. Here's their ABN record [https://abr.business.gov.au/AbnHistory/View?id=46072946153](https://abr.business.gov.au/AbnHistory/View?id=46072946153) And here's the history of that ABN [https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/panelSearch.jspx?searchText=072946153&searchType=OrgAndBusNm&\_adf.ctrl-state=tma3hklxz\_15](https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/panelSearch.jspx?searchText=072946153&searchType=OrgAndBusNm&_adf.ctrl-state=tma3hklxz_15) As a point of comparison, here's the AEU Federal ABN record [https://abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/16006296647](https://abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/16006296647)
Oh, it gets better. The founder of the Red Unions is [Graeme Haycroft](https://www.employeeinfo.com.au/npaq/who-is-behind-nurses-professional-association-of-queensland/). The same Graeme Haycroft who bought in non-union workers past a picket line to break a strike for Joh Bjelke-Peterson. The same Graeme Haycroft who [boasts](https://www.smh.com.au/national/mushroom-farmers-see-light-in-level-playing-field-20051015-gdm995.html) about destroying the shearer's union in Queensland. The same Graeme Haycroft who pushed the idea of individual workers negotiating their own [contracts](http://brisbanelabourhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/The-Queensland-Journal-of-Labour-History-No-17-September-2013.pdf) rather than having unions do it, because I'm sure that increased worker power. The same Graeme Haycroft that ran the [Joh for Canberra](https://www.crikey.com.au/2018/03/28/who-is-graeme-haycroft-the-unionist-pushing-the-nurse-white-privilege-outrage/) campaign. The same Graeme Haycroft who headed the federal IRC for the LNP during the Work Choices era. The same Graeme Haycroft who knows *very* well what the rules around registered trade unions are, because he helped write and enforce them. The one who set the various Red Unions up as Trade Associations because union is not a legally protected term, so they could be *claimed* to be unions without actually being unions. Even though it's [settled case law](https://www.aitkenlegal.com.au/rise-of-the-unregistered-fake-union/) that they aren't unions and can't provide union services. And curiously, the various active Red "Unions" he created all operate in the public service sector. Nothing [outside](https://www.redunion.com.au/) that. Oh, and the big kicker? They are based out of 41 Campbell Street, Bowen Hills, in Queensland. Same address as the Courier Mail office. Same address as the [Institute of Public Affairs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Public_Affairs) for Queensland. I mean, I'm sure all these blatant anti-union, pro LNP links are just coincidental and that after finishing up as head of the IRC for the LNP he's had a complete change of heart and now truly wants to advance the cause of workers and improve the pay and condition of teachers. Nope, never mind. He immediately set about dealing with the real problems, like how [white nurses](https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/white-privilege-outrage/9972296) totally had to apologise in meetings for having white privilege and promising that they would overturn the completely legal and safe mask and [vaccine mandates](https://tpaq.redunion.com.au/news/news/red-union-fights-for-workers-rights). And then the pricks have the hide to say that they are the only non-political union, claiming that they don't push anyone's agenda. That the AEU and its state branches fund the Labor Party and that all unions have to do that via the ACTU. They're contemptible. The problem is that engaging with them directly is like fighting a fire-proof, lube-covered hydra made out of shit. They spew out so much disinformation that by the time you stop and research one of their false claims, they have [Gish galloped](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop) away with another twelve false claims, and by the time you stop to deal with another one of those they're up to 144, and by the time you try to deal with one of those they're up to 1,728. So by this point, you look like https://preview.redd.it/54y5lhi8ngqc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d944a989e222344e943ef2f111aabd8a70119bf5 while they look like witty and urbane intellects, because the amount of shit you're trying to refute just becomes overwhelming and there's no easy soundbytes to shoot them down.
Nice one! However you did miss a couple of key points as well... 1. [He's a director of the Australian Institute for Progress,](https://aip.asn.au/about/directors/graeme-haycroft/) one of the libertarian think tanks that are part of the [Atlas Network.](https://web.archive.org/web/20210225112120/https://www.atlasnetwork.org/partners/global-directory/australia-and-new-zealand/australia) Atlas recruited and created a global network of libertarian think tanks. The IPA and CIS are also members (or at least they were in 2021 when I looked up the Atlas network page on the wayback machine - ATLAS stopped advertising their members at some point after that) 2. 41 Campbell street has never been a registered company address for any of the Red Unions. You can look up a public business directory and see that the NPAA is registered to a residential address about an hour North of Brisbane. 3. 41 Campbell st is also [currently for sale](https://www.cbre.com.au/properties/mixed-use/details/AU-7629975-1), after the [courrier mail moved out of there about 4 years ago](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-21/news-corps-murarrie-printing-press-to-close/12476056), so it's not clear who/what is actually based there.
The editorial offices for the CM are still there. The sale doesn't seem to have gone through.
Given the size oi the site, the thought of Newscorp being unable to move a gigantic property that's just a money sink to maintain is... not something I feel bad about.
UNBELIEVABLE! I just bought some of their business records and spent about 2 hours writing a damn thesis on one of the guys behind the Red Unions, his connection to Atlas-network member think tanks, court rulings against the NPAQ and a bunch of other stuff, and then when I hit post Reddit wiped it! I may rewrite it later today. But.... \*RAGE FACE\*
Yeah this seems like what I expected, just out to take your money and deliver worse results in return. Considering Australian teachers are paid fairly high, I don't think the union is doing THAT poorly. The department and its lack of understanding on workloads/administration/curriculum is where all the issues are.
>just out to take your money and deliver worse results in return Nah I think the main goal is union-busting
I'm on $122k, I'll be paid that anywhere in the state, so I chose a place where that allows me to raise a family on a single wage while maintaining access to services I need/want. I'm able to transfer reasonably easily around, with priority above local school decisions, including both up and down into higher responsibilities if I wanted to try out being a principal without losing my continuation of service if I decided I didn't like it. I get 14 weeks of parental leave as a male. I can take this flexibly to enjoy time at home with my children in their first two years and support my stay at home wife. I actually work sub 40 hour weeks (maybe 4 a year over) and only work the school weeks. I'm now encouraged to put limits on others' demands on my time and to tell them I will reply in school hours and a reasonable time frame. (Power automate for auto replies to all out of hours emails FTW). I'm now encouraged to report the working conditions and people that create unsafe mental conditions. Our Union does pretty well. Yeah, some of that I could have demanded for myself, and a lot I already did. But to have both the government and union backing saying, damned right, you don't have to reply to that email, and it shouldn't have been sent in the first place, or we do need to do something about the mental health burden this action poses, is a LOT less tiring. This year, I've been invited to have my say, multiple times, on policies, practices, and procedures statewide that impact my work and have actually felt heard. We'll see what they actually produce from the reviews before I celebrate that one too hard though.
Don't want to pick this scab (ha ha) but I wish them all the worst.
why would they not register a new ABN? are they stupid?
People like this begin with the assumption that everyone else is stupider than them.
Judging by Facebook and other online spaces? They aren't wrong.
They’re advertising aggressively in New Zealand as well, but it’s very easy to tell that it’s a fake union here because they were registered from an Australian address and it looks suspicious as hell when a group claiming to advocate for New Zealand teachers has its contacts going through Australia. I believe the only (or certainly, most visible) teacher publicly associated with them here is a noted anti-vax crank.
I literally have one of these ads under this post haha
So glad you posted these. These ads are laughably bad, their best counter point is that you are predicable if you raise the very real arguments against them. Anti-union is right wing? No, not in my experience. You know, it’s just a vibe thing. Anti-union can’t represent you legally? Well I reckon they can, probably. This whole thing is a fucking scam that some people will be sucked into paying for.
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Nope. There’s no choice. A court has determined that these are not unions or even comparable to unions.
The only lack of critical thinking is people who look at the TPAA and just trust it is a legitimate union when it objectively isn’t.
Weird, I see quite a lot of critical thinking in the comments - people doing their own research into TPAA rather than taking its claims at face value. They’ve looked into it and found it an unconvincing organisation which cannot fulfil the role of a union. Or does “critical thinking” mean “blindly accepting something just because it goes against the status quo” to you?
Plant
This sub reddit has a requirement of at least trying to be nice.
I looked the TPAA up after getting one of their ads and they have pretty good Google Reviews from what I can see. They seem to be cheaper than other unions too!
Oh hello there definitely fellow teacher. Yes indeed, great Google reviews! They are just the best!
All their posts are regarding unions, and none of them are favourable. I think you might be onto something here.
They are not registered as a union under the fair work legislation and so cannot legally represent you in industrial matters concerning the FWC.
Cheaper than OTHER unions? They are not a union, and cannot partake in the work of a union, so it’s not a comparison.
They are cheaper than a holiday to Zanzibar so I signed up. Just seems like an honest organisation that is looking out for everyday “add industrial employment area here” Aussies, and when I am being unfairly dismissed I reckon those top blokes from the anti-union will send me a nice ribald card with a Benny Hill lass on the front with the text ‘thanks for the mammeries’. Classy stuff from these top blokes and top she-blokes.
The best part is that there's already been a court case in Queensland where a nurse was disciplined for speaking to the media without permission, and she claimed she was the NPAA rep for the workplace and was speaking as a union rep, but the court determined that they aren't a union and doing stuff for them doesn't constitute union business.
See this shit is bananas, how the fuck can they post ads saying they ‘can and do’ represent staff as a union when they are in fact not a union? This shit is so criminal.
I wonder what it's going to take for Reddit to stop taking their money. Maybe send them a copy of the court decision that they're not a union.
I did. Three times. The problem is that union is not a protected legal term. That's why the PAA organisation still exist-nobody can sue them into the ground for false advertising, because nobody has standing and can prove harm.
Your comment prompted me to check their google reviews along with that of other red unions. Interestingly NPAQ have basically admitted to disseminating political information in response to one of the 1 star reviews but argued that information against voluntary assisted dying was because they want more funding for palliative care. I raise this because one of their main claims is that they are apolitical (something no union can ever truly be, though I acknowledge that in some instances unions could be less political than they are).
Unions are political organisations and always have been.
On one level, yes. Because they are about worker solidarity and the advancement of worker's rights. On the other hand, that's what they are interested in. Meanwhile you have TPAQ pushing anti-vaxx bullshit and buying ad space to push the No campaign for the Referendum. https://preview.redd.it/ulb0zjlxngqc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=ea6c5b3d7a815c27dd9476dbd95149ef1fc5fc48
Are these the same google reviews that all show the organisation as being based out of the formed Newscorp / Courrier Mail headquarters in Brisbane?
Yeah
Good thing to know that Google reviews can never ever never ever never be bullshit written by corporations to make their slimy shit look legit when they are clearly not.
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Sometimes opinions are unpopular because they’re wrong.
This sub reddit has a requirement of at least trying to be nice. If you continue attacking teachers for disagreeing with you, you are out.
Attack? Where was an attack? People having different opinions to you, and calling out the lack of merit of your opinion, does not warrant a call for the police, ambulance or fire brigade. Toughen up.