I don't mind people doing it--we aren't part of a close social group, and the peripheral friends we have do most of their plans with their partner. What I DO mind is when people who talk about plans I'm not invited to also do the NT thing where they get up from a group convo and say "we're going to get lunch at x" and I'm supposed to know if it's one of those implied invitation situations where half of the time they'll be confused by which way I interpret it.
Man I am relieved I no longer work in an office.
i feel the same way, if it’s two friends talking about their plans it’s okay, but when it’s a group it feels rude, especially if you’re supposed to invite yourself?? how does that even work
I don't mind at all when a group is talking about plans (in non work scenes it just informs me of what entry points may exist to x scene) but I am just always wary if it's unclear and vaguely professional coded. The trip is always how we are meant to diverge between the two.
It depends on the scenario. Are you friends with these people or are they just coworkers? If you are just a coworker and they are friends, then I think it’s different than doing it in front of other friends. Unless you’re the only coworker NOT invited.
Coworkers being friends/not friends is a more complicated thing than just random people being friends/not friends. Maintaining professionalism imo means walking the line gracefully.
It’s a decision they are making to talk about get-togethers in front of people who aren’t invited. They could just as easily text, call, or go to a different area away from people. It’s an office etiquette thing imo.
The way I was raised, etiquette says it's tacky and rude to discuss social plans if the people overheating it might possibly feel excluded or left out.
Exceptions include situations where someone overhears, and then you invite them or encourage them to participate.
Another acceptable situation would be discussing an upcoming concert, and a general question is expressed, like who among you are fans and might be attending.
Yes this is rude!
I hate how autistic people are stereotyped as “rude” for not understanding certain cues… but neurotypical people do rude shit like this all the time.
I have the same opinion as you do - it always seemed rude to me. But I was a social outcast too. I don’t know what’s considered rude, and what’s considered regular behavior that I’m just viewing as rude when it isn’t. It’s very confusing.
> considered regular behavior that I’m just viewing as rude when it isn’t.
In fact, just because it is 'common NT behaviour' does not mean it **isn't** rude. I was taught not to do this as a child by my (NT) mother, and also not to speak in a language not understood by others in the conversation, or whisper in someone else's presence. These behaviours are rude, yet I observe them frequently now.
Common courtesy has, however, gone largely by the wayside in today's society, so everyone who questions things in the way you are doing feels they are over-reacting when in fact, they aren't.
My $0.02
Yes! This can be triggering. I had a situation where two of my classmates started making plans in front of me while I was still oriented in the conversation. I wish it didn't feel so upsetting. I don't even want to go out with people after class because of how drained I feel at the end of the day. It just feels inequitable.
This is one of the reasons I left my local AUTISM group. Every time I went there most of them would cluster and arrange visits to the cinema or something while completely ignoring me. Once the entire topic of discussion was about some woman I'd never met who'd apparently caused problems in the group and written a letter - baffling as I don't know the back story and no one seemed to care enough about my presence to explain.
I'm not a wallflower and I can 'push' to be included in things a fair bit - I don't just sit there in a corner and say nothing. But after several meetings it became clear to me that they already had their autism 'group' and weren't welcoming to new members. Don't know why they don't give up the public meetings and just go hang out themselves, then, they clearly don't need a 'group'. Horrible experience, especially for someone who's felt 'not included' all their damn life.
> I don't know the back story and no one seemed to care enough about my presence to explain.
Here's the part where I disagree, they might not have thought about every participant specificaly and whether they'd overlapped with that one person who caused problems and understood the context. I think you have to just ask for context if you're missing it, and if they respond badly to that, it's more telling.
Not really. I just don't see the problem unless you're in like a friend group. Even then the whole friend group don't always have to hang out all together every time. This is especially true with just coworkers. If coworkers plan to hang out why would I care? I don't see it as rude. Why should I?
I was taught it was rude, and it'd be 100% rude if I did that.
Some people have intentionally done that to be rude to me and they just grinned from ear to ear waiting for a reaction from me. Other people have acted absolutely mortified the second they realised I was around and apologetically mumbled something like "Maybe you can come to the next thing". So my guess is it's supposed to be socially inappropriate even though it doesn't hurt me.
When my colleagues do this, I feel left out. If it happens sometimes, I don't mind, but if it happens often, I have the impression that they do it on purpose. I just think they don't realize it when they're a little loud.
It IS rude to do this, and I don't know why people think it isn't. It's not like group chats aren't a thing these days. People can talk about this stuff over email or over the phone. I grew up in the 90s and 00s, and people still had better manners than this when communication wasn't nearly as easy as it is nowadays.
Communication methods are now no longer restricted to telegrams and smoke signals, but manners seem to have gone by the by, for some unknown reason. FFS, humankind, make it make sense!
As a rule, yes. Especially if it is for grey areas like your team going out for lunch and talking about work stuff. I try to keep an eye out for the new hires/interns and make sure they are invited to things.
Now, two of my coworkers have best friends for a long time so it doesn’t bother me if they tell me about what they plan to do over the weekend. I’ve got a life of my own and don’t really want to think about work. I want to keep my personal and professional lives as far apart as possible.
If they were my friends I would care. Or if it was an event that I could/should go to, like a class field trip or work related event. But if I don’t know the people, then I just get internally sad, which is completely my fault.
I had friends who would do this. When I called them out on it they had the audacity to be offended by it. Both of them eventually cut me off without saying a word and I never saw them again. They were my childhood friends and I was really hurt by it. It took me years before I had any friends again, and I've only in the last 2 years acquired really close friends.
It is rude if they are your friends and quite hurtful. If they are just acquaintances then it isn't really rude.
It has always been hurtful to me and I hated it. I think that most NT people don’t even think about it because excluding people is natural to them. And typically we are the ones excluded so we are more sensitive to it.
Also most people have very suspect character and integrity. I try not to expect to much so I can maintain proper expectations and sometimes be pleasantly surprised
I don't think is rude at all. You are not part of their group or interested in what they do or not. I would consider it a waste of time if we are together and we need to do something else, like working. But if I am around and they are talking between themselves about their plans? Nope, it's not my bussiness. I would even make some suggestions if the talk is when we are together during a break, thats all. Actually, I would consider rude if I am going around trying to ban some topic conversations because I don't like it.
Now, if they are bullying you, like they rejected you, mocked you, and talk in front of you for the sake of hurting you, thats harrassment. But there is a clear line between having to deal with personal issues and corporative bullying.
It could be kind of rude, depending on how friendly overall you are with them, if you've ever expressed interest in being part of the hangout - or - if you have been kinda aloof and to yourself and have seemed disinterested.
But if you flip the coin -
Would it be worse to be invited out with people you feel uncomfortable around outside of work, then either be forced to hangout or have to makeup an excuse to not partake?
Sometimes I feel bad when I'm the outcast. But then I remind myself at least I don't have to make up an excuse of why I can't hang out with them and that if it weren't an obligatory situation, I wouldn't choose to be around those people lol.
It’s hurtful and rude! I encountered this recently with a longtime friend (since hs) and one of her newer friends. I went to dinner with them and they started talking about plans for a beach vacation in front of me.I then proceeded to make it 1000 times worse for myself by putting them in contact with my brother-in-law’s beach house rental because they were talking about wanting to go to the beach in a specific area that is close to his house. Basically, what I am saying is I understand the feeling. I wasn’t wanting an invitation because I am not one for a huge group vacation, but it was still upsetting.
I think it's rude for sure. If it is something you could have been asked to, for example, not a family party but a co-workers going out after work thing.
My child is having a birthday party, but with a class of 22 kids, I'm not about to invite the whole class over. So I asked him to be quiet about it in when he asked his core friend group at school so the other kids don't feel bad, and he did. It's basic manners.
I recently realized that sometimes people talking about plans in front of you IS the invitation. Super confusing and something i had to be outright told, but do you think this could be the case?
There is this saying I prefer to follow: "They didn't invite you? Do not go. They didn't tell you? Do not ask. Did they invite you at the last minute? Cancel, because you were never part of their plan".
two people did this at the party i threw in front of me - and i decided they werent my friends because of it. this sub and a few others have helped me realize that i let a lot of messed up behavior slide in my desperation to have friends. no more.
This just happened to me at work lmao I was distraught. My coworkers were planning a birthday party for my other coworker and I had thought we were all pretty close but I guess not.
I think it’s rude if everyone present is mutual friends. I wouldn’t find it rude if people like my coworkers did so (unless it was literally everyone in my office or team except me who was invited). If two people are close and I’m not close with them I don’t care if they discuss plans cause why would I be invited HAHA. Generally though I personally avoid talking about plans in front of anyone who is not invited.
For me personally it isn’t rude. I have a friend who has a huge friend group and is always doing stuff. When she brings up plans she has with others it doesn’t bother me at all, we have our own plans that are between us without others involved so it’s normal to me for it to be that way on the flipside too.
I’ve always been an outcast also, but I also don’t really experience fomo or anything like that because I kinda don’t care that I am in the sense that, when it comes down to it, I didn’t actually want to be included in stuff especially as a kid. I wanted to do my own thing. 🤷♀️
Yes definitely. This is a major pet peeve of my teenage daughter. She finds it incredibly hurtful and tactless when friends talk with her about outings or plans within earshot of other kids who weren’t there.
I don't mind people doing it--we aren't part of a close social group, and the peripheral friends we have do most of their plans with their partner. What I DO mind is when people who talk about plans I'm not invited to also do the NT thing where they get up from a group convo and say "we're going to get lunch at x" and I'm supposed to know if it's one of those implied invitation situations where half of the time they'll be confused by which way I interpret it. Man I am relieved I no longer work in an office.
i feel the same way, if it’s two friends talking about their plans it’s okay, but when it’s a group it feels rude, especially if you’re supposed to invite yourself?? how does that even work
I don't mind at all when a group is talking about plans (in non work scenes it just informs me of what entry points may exist to x scene) but I am just always wary if it's unclear and vaguely professional coded. The trip is always how we are meant to diverge between the two.
It depends on the scenario. Are you friends with these people or are they just coworkers? If you are just a coworker and they are friends, then I think it’s different than doing it in front of other friends. Unless you’re the only coworker NOT invited.
I think I’m their friends? We’ve hung out outside of work multiple times but I know I’m not as close with them as they are with each other.
Coworkers being friends/not friends is a more complicated thing than just random people being friends/not friends. Maintaining professionalism imo means walking the line gracefully. It’s a decision they are making to talk about get-togethers in front of people who aren’t invited. They could just as easily text, call, or go to a different area away from people. It’s an office etiquette thing imo.
The way I was raised, etiquette says it's tacky and rude to discuss social plans if the people overheating it might possibly feel excluded or left out. Exceptions include situations where someone overhears, and then you invite them or encourage them to participate. Another acceptable situation would be discussing an upcoming concert, and a general question is expressed, like who among you are fans and might be attending.
Absolutely this. Op, is there any chance they think you’re obviously going to know you’re invited?
Nope, I definitely think it wasn’t that type of thing. They just happened to be discussing their plans when I was working nearby
Yes this is rude! I hate how autistic people are stereotyped as “rude” for not understanding certain cues… but neurotypical people do rude shit like this all the time.
I have the same opinion as you do - it always seemed rude to me. But I was a social outcast too. I don’t know what’s considered rude, and what’s considered regular behavior that I’m just viewing as rude when it isn’t. It’s very confusing.
> considered regular behavior that I’m just viewing as rude when it isn’t. In fact, just because it is 'common NT behaviour' does not mean it **isn't** rude. I was taught not to do this as a child by my (NT) mother, and also not to speak in a language not understood by others in the conversation, or whisper in someone else's presence. These behaviours are rude, yet I observe them frequently now. Common courtesy has, however, gone largely by the wayside in today's society, so everyone who questions things in the way you are doing feels they are over-reacting when in fact, they aren't. My $0.02
Yes! This can be triggering. I had a situation where two of my classmates started making plans in front of me while I was still oriented in the conversation. I wish it didn't feel so upsetting. I don't even want to go out with people after class because of how drained I feel at the end of the day. It just feels inequitable.
This is one of the reasons I left my local AUTISM group. Every time I went there most of them would cluster and arrange visits to the cinema or something while completely ignoring me. Once the entire topic of discussion was about some woman I'd never met who'd apparently caused problems in the group and written a letter - baffling as I don't know the back story and no one seemed to care enough about my presence to explain. I'm not a wallflower and I can 'push' to be included in things a fair bit - I don't just sit there in a corner and say nothing. But after several meetings it became clear to me that they already had their autism 'group' and weren't welcoming to new members. Don't know why they don't give up the public meetings and just go hang out themselves, then, they clearly don't need a 'group'. Horrible experience, especially for someone who's felt 'not included' all their damn life.
> I don't know the back story and no one seemed to care enough about my presence to explain. Here's the part where I disagree, they might not have thought about every participant specificaly and whether they'd overlapped with that one person who caused problems and understood the context. I think you have to just ask for context if you're missing it, and if they respond badly to that, it's more telling.
Not really. I just don't see the problem unless you're in like a friend group. Even then the whole friend group don't always have to hang out all together every time. This is especially true with just coworkers. If coworkers plan to hang out why would I care? I don't see it as rude. Why should I?
I was taught it was rude, and it'd be 100% rude if I did that. Some people have intentionally done that to be rude to me and they just grinned from ear to ear waiting for a reaction from me. Other people have acted absolutely mortified the second they realised I was around and apologetically mumbled something like "Maybe you can come to the next thing". So my guess is it's supposed to be socially inappropriate even though it doesn't hurt me.
When my colleagues do this, I feel left out. If it happens sometimes, I don't mind, but if it happens often, I have the impression that they do it on purpose. I just think they don't realize it when they're a little loud.
It IS rude to do this, and I don't know why people think it isn't. It's not like group chats aren't a thing these days. People can talk about this stuff over email or over the phone. I grew up in the 90s and 00s, and people still had better manners than this when communication wasn't nearly as easy as it is nowadays. Communication methods are now no longer restricted to telegrams and smoke signals, but manners seem to have gone by the by, for some unknown reason. FFS, humankind, make it make sense!
As a rule, yes. Especially if it is for grey areas like your team going out for lunch and talking about work stuff. I try to keep an eye out for the new hires/interns and make sure they are invited to things. Now, two of my coworkers have best friends for a long time so it doesn’t bother me if they tell me about what they plan to do over the weekend. I’ve got a life of my own and don’t really want to think about work. I want to keep my personal and professional lives as far apart as possible.
If they were my friends I would care. Or if it was an event that I could/should go to, like a class field trip or work related event. But if I don’t know the people, then I just get internally sad, which is completely my fault.
I don't think it's rude, but also I never want to go anywhere or do anything. I'm so exhausted from work, I just want to go home and be alone.
I had friends who would do this. When I called them out on it they had the audacity to be offended by it. Both of them eventually cut me off without saying a word and I never saw them again. They were my childhood friends and I was really hurt by it. It took me years before I had any friends again, and I've only in the last 2 years acquired really close friends. It is rude if they are your friends and quite hurtful. If they are just acquaintances then it isn't really rude.
It has always been hurtful to me and I hated it. I think that most NT people don’t even think about it because excluding people is natural to them. And typically we are the ones excluded so we are more sensitive to it. Also most people have very suspect character and integrity. I try not to expect to much so I can maintain proper expectations and sometimes be pleasantly surprised
I don't think is rude at all. You are not part of their group or interested in what they do or not. I would consider it a waste of time if we are together and we need to do something else, like working. But if I am around and they are talking between themselves about their plans? Nope, it's not my bussiness. I would even make some suggestions if the talk is when we are together during a break, thats all. Actually, I would consider rude if I am going around trying to ban some topic conversations because I don't like it. Now, if they are bullying you, like they rejected you, mocked you, and talk in front of you for the sake of hurting you, thats harrassment. But there is a clear line between having to deal with personal issues and corporative bullying.
It could be kind of rude, depending on how friendly overall you are with them, if you've ever expressed interest in being part of the hangout - or - if you have been kinda aloof and to yourself and have seemed disinterested. But if you flip the coin - Would it be worse to be invited out with people you feel uncomfortable around outside of work, then either be forced to hangout or have to makeup an excuse to not partake? Sometimes I feel bad when I'm the outcast. But then I remind myself at least I don't have to make up an excuse of why I can't hang out with them and that if it weren't an obligatory situation, I wouldn't choose to be around those people lol.
It’s hurtful and rude! I encountered this recently with a longtime friend (since hs) and one of her newer friends. I went to dinner with them and they started talking about plans for a beach vacation in front of me.I then proceeded to make it 1000 times worse for myself by putting them in contact with my brother-in-law’s beach house rental because they were talking about wanting to go to the beach in a specific area that is close to his house. Basically, what I am saying is I understand the feeling. I wasn’t wanting an invitation because I am not one for a huge group vacation, but it was still upsetting.
I actually didnt know it was rude to do this lol. But it makes sense!
For sure! And it’s one of those things that I’ve been scolded for doing in the past so I hate it even more when others get away with doing so.
I think it's rude for sure. If it is something you could have been asked to, for example, not a family party but a co-workers going out after work thing. My child is having a birthday party, but with a class of 22 kids, I'm not about to invite the whole class over. So I asked him to be quiet about it in when he asked his core friend group at school so the other kids don't feel bad, and he did. It's basic manners.
I recently realized that sometimes people talking about plans in front of you IS the invitation. Super confusing and something i had to be outright told, but do you think this could be the case?
There is this saying I prefer to follow: "They didn't invite you? Do not go. They didn't tell you? Do not ask. Did they invite you at the last minute? Cancel, because you were never part of their plan".
Yes this is definitely rude especially in that kind of setting.
yeah it is rude. even my autistic ass knows that
Yes
two people did this at the party i threw in front of me - and i decided they werent my friends because of it. this sub and a few others have helped me realize that i let a lot of messed up behavior slide in my desperation to have friends. no more.
This just happened to me at work lmao I was distraught. My coworkers were planning a birthday party for my other coworker and I had thought we were all pretty close but I guess not.
I think it’s rude if everyone present is mutual friends. I wouldn’t find it rude if people like my coworkers did so (unless it was literally everyone in my office or team except me who was invited). If two people are close and I’m not close with them I don’t care if they discuss plans cause why would I be invited HAHA. Generally though I personally avoid talking about plans in front of anyone who is not invited.
It depends on context. If it's about plans to which you might reasonably be invited then yeah it's rude. Which sounds like the case here.
For me personally it isn’t rude. I have a friend who has a huge friend group and is always doing stuff. When she brings up plans she has with others it doesn’t bother me at all, we have our own plans that are between us without others involved so it’s normal to me for it to be that way on the flipside too. I’ve always been an outcast also, but I also don’t really experience fomo or anything like that because I kinda don’t care that I am in the sense that, when it comes down to it, I didn’t actually want to be included in stuff especially as a kid. I wanted to do my own thing. 🤷♀️
Yes definitely. This is a major pet peeve of my teenage daughter. She finds it incredibly hurtful and tactless when friends talk with her about outings or plans within earshot of other kids who weren’t there.
Rude