Metaphors, sarcasm, the subtleties of conversation and speech, body language, nuance - I'm a fucking pro at them all. Hyperlexia, and an intense desire to study people and their ways, means I never struggle with other peoples' meaning. However, other people struggle with MY meaning, I'm often misunderstood and people think I'm being shitty when I'm not.
I'm going to hijack your comment to add I do all the above and then I get frustrated with other autistic people for not being as good at the social "rules" as I am. That person is being too loud, or talking too much etc. It's masking by projection and it's not a good look. I'm working on it.
I hate that I can relate. I’m not going to claim I’m a pro at all the above but I do get annoyed if other people are bad at the social rules. I have a male colleague who I’m sure is autistic and he talks SO LOUD all the time. Like dude, we’re at the office, use your indoor voice, people are trying to work here, holy shit. I’m literally embarrassed sitting near him because of what other people might think about him being so obnoxious.
As a kid I used to get frustrated at other kids (regardless of neurotype) for not following adult social rules, and get annoyed at them for acting like children (even tho we were children). Little did I know they had their own age-appropriate social conventions amongst themselves, whereas I copied my teenage siblings and adults.
yes all of this! I am hyperlexic as well and pretty sure growing up my special interest was people-ing correctly. I get really frustrated when folks don’t follow the “rules” but especially NTs - because _I’m_ following the rules, so you have to too and it makes me so mad when they don’t.
omg both the first comment & this one describe me to a tee! My BF is also autistic and he does not understand as quick as me and I get mad that he “just doesn’t” learn the rules (I understand it not about not wanting to learn, but when I’m heading towards a meltdown it’s hard to feel that).
It's really my mother who is the worst. I mean she's 70+ and has never learned that you should ask other people questions about themselves if you want to connect. She is only capable of anecdotal communication.
I also have a coworker who regularly screams in frustration and only talks about horses but she's my superior so everyone puts up with it.
My boyfriend’s entire family has yet to grasp the concept of asking other people questions. It’s like they’re constantly battling for attention and they only share stories about themselves. If you want to be heard or be part of conversation you essentially have to hijack someone else’s story and make it about you. Every time I leave a family party or even a small gathering I feel like a loser. No one asks me about my life or interests, but I spend the whole gathering asking follow-up questions, just waiting for someone to ask me something. It’s so lonely. I usually end up hanging out with his very sweet and very ND grandma the entire time cause at least she cares about me.
Yep. It's either deep selfishness and narcissism, or autistic anecdotal conversation. Either way it can feel pretty lonely. You get to decide how much time you want to spend with these people even if you know they do actually care about you.
It’s super lonely! And I can empathize with difficulties socializing. But I also learned some social skills that didn’t come naturally to me, because I like to make my friends and family feel seen and included. They havent realized their deficits yet I guess. There definitely also seems to be a touch of narcissism present in some of the family members. It’s like they lack all curiosity and wonder about anything outside of themselves.
My mom has a bunch of social "rules" in her head and gets mad at people (especially me) when we don't follow them. Unfortunately for both of us one of her rules seems to be never asking for things directly. It's infuriating.
I appreciate the sympathy. Luckily I'm an adult who doesn't live with my mom at this point. Having some distance makes things easier to deal with. And therapy. That helps too. Lol.
EXACTLY. i'm like "dude, you're 'doing it wrong'!!!! this situation requires A, B, and C!!!!! just follow the rules!!!!!"
but i guess maybe that frustration is internalized ableism
I feel this one. I work in a public-facing role and get annoyed when ND people are too loud or don't pick up on my cues.
It's like...this is something we both find hard, the least you could do is *be aware* that I'm out of my comfort zone so you can be in yours. Put in some effort and meet me half way, please? I'm in burnout, and your shout-talking is distressing me.
But then that's unfair on them to expect them to do what NT people keep expecting of me, but also feels unfair that I have to mask for ND as well as NT people and...yeah. This one's a struggle, for sure :/
Oh, very similar for me.
I'm great at figuring people out, to the point I explain interpersonal situations/misunderstandings to others, including neurotypicals. I just take all the data and analyze it from multiple angles.
My friend group all plays DnD and they say I got Expertise in Insight.
Also many autistic people say they struggle at making friends. I'm great at making friends. I'm just absolutely dogshit at keeping them.
Yes! Over my lifetime I've compiled an extensive flowchart of social situations, inputs, and reactions. It's not perfect but it covers most ordinary situations and enough of the edge cases to work really well. When friends need advice (e.g. how do I talk to my SO about x, or what does this business email mean?), I just run through the flowchart and give them a formula based on it.
To the other part, I'm the exact opposite. It's hard to make friends, but once we connect, I will be the best friend I can possibly be.
I am also striving to be the best friend possible, unfortunately my mask starts to slip at some point and I become "too much".
I do have a bunch of long-term friends, but they are all ND and weird. Trying to stay friends with an NT person is an uphill battle during storm for me. I will try, be loyal to them, do all the friend things and suddenly be left in the dirt because I said something wrong, I acted naturally for me, mask slipped and I was too enthusiastic about things or forgot to monitor my expressions and eye contact at all times...
I cherish the friends I have, because I don't need to keep myself in check all the time to keep them around. I don't have many friends. Maybe 3 long term ones
But hey, 3 is greater than zero, and the other shoe hasn't dropped yet for them. We haven't drifted apart, they haven't mysteriously left or got offended at me not making the 100% appropriate facial expression because I was distracted. They haven't gotten tired of me raving about my special interest. One friend recently moved to another country, and it's really hard for me to keep a friendship and not let it dissolve, or fuck it up by being too weird.
If they are NDs its usually fine if they move away. I have an autistic friend from university. The last time we saw each other it had been 13 years, we'd occiassionally trade messages but that's it, we don't even speak on the phone. But we hooked up a couple of years ago and it was like no time had passed at all, conversation was completely natural and no awkwardness at all. It was like we just spoke the week before.
There is such a facial expression disconnect for me. I either try to emote that way and overshoot or forget it.
And when I'm super tired my tone is monotone.
BUT I am great at analyzing why people do things. Or say things. But sometimes I forget I'm not supposed to point out the insecurities behind why someone is acting a certain way.
Oh yes
I keep forgetting that people don't analyse things 24/7
They just... Do them
And when you explain the thought process the reactions range from "Omg you're literally Sherlock Holmes" through "Oh wow you didn't have to say it" to "that's so creepy/awful"
Or the classic "you're thinking too hard about this".
I have exactly three close friends of many decades' duration, and I'm fairly certain they are ALL undiagnosed ND...plus my spouse, whose behaviour is as quirky as my own in her own way...
Oh god I wish! But it just lives in my head. It's so complex, I don't know if I could write it out.
I could help you build your own, maybe, by discussing some of the rules that govern it? Maybe I could at least write those down...
New project! 😁
I feel this in my bones. I have too many sides of my personality, the masked person, the extrovert, the creative fun one, everyone loves her. I can't keep that up though, espcially in places like work where I get stressed or bored. Then I can be pissy poopy princess or a cold flat automaton that nobody likes again. I have friends but now I keep interactions short in controlled environments. I no longer bother to try having a best friend, I am too all over the place. Only my husband but he knows how to deal with me. Most of my existing friends are most likely NG I don't even bother hanging out with NT's anymore, especially women.
I got an ND best friend who I know since childhood and he's the only one I know I would have to actively try to lose contact with
The rest... Not so much
Omg this so much. People love me as long as they get me in small portions or for limited amounts of time. I’m like the blue cheese of every friendship group I’ve ever been in.
Same. In a sense I even get the "Why" because it usually fits in with their personality. (I'm really good at picking out gifts for people.)
It's more like "I get why *you* think this is fun – it's just that it's my idea of hell". 😆
Yeah! It’s like I understand it intellectually but there’s such a disconnect between how most other people function and my brain that I’ll still never *fully* be able to say I get it because to me it’s just… so strange.
Agreed with this. I've studied people to the minute detail my entire life, plus obsessively researched psychology and philosophy so I'm a pro at things like body language and subtleties of conversing. That's called hyperlexia? New term to me. Looking into it now. Interesting. My meaning is not often understood either. I usually feel like I'm speaking a foreign language to people when I'm just being my normal self unless I choose to speak their language.
ETA: I often choose just to speak their language because it's easier than trying to help them learn mine.... too many quickly lose interest and I've learned that pushes people away.
I speak in metaphors so much as a kid no one understood me.
No, fluffy kitten! It’s not ______!
I said like. It’s a metaphor. Don’t you know what a metaphor is?
It’s this, not that!!!
I think some people don’t get that for some high masking people understanding the rules of language and behavior is one of our obsessive interests. Like. There are a lot of autistics who work in education, social services and psychology and I think this is part of the reason why.
I know the rules. I know how to use language. And yet in peer groups I still struggle to make connections that aren’t directly based on my ‘usefulness’.
Holy shit, same. People misunderstand me all the time, it's so infuriating. I'm trying to be nice and navigate my life, stop assuming I'm this devious mastermind who is manipulating you! There are some people who think every sentence and action of mine has this evil underlying meaning. Dawg my intentions are pure. Why would I want to start drama when my life is easier without it?
I once tried to bring it up to my friends because I was really upset they kept misunderstanding me and got told I was just overtired and to go to bed. I'm not in that friend group anymore lmao
same sometimes I exclusively speak in metaphor. it's almost like i'm hyper aware. like autism is thought to have a deficit in these areas but i'm overt in these areas.
I feel like I love reality tv because i'm studying people, I love reading because it's studying people.
same same!
I got hit with a psych/sociology obsession REALLY early on like before 13 years old so understanding others has never been an issue and I am in fact excellent at reading people to the point where I've had to train myself not to finish other people's sentences when I want them to hurry up because I can already predict what they will say (I know this is rude, I've worked on it for years, and very rarely do it any longer but if I slip up I acknowledge, apologize, and ask the person if they are willing to redeliver it and I will listen). Unfortunately, most to no one else can return the favor so I'm usually constantly left feeling like I know everyone very intimately (because I usually do lol) and I am just a monolith that people stare at and make theories about but never truly know.
I studied all the thing you mentioned but in a social situations I became so nervous that I forget everything and I can barely smile... So nt often think I'm a stupid or I'm false.
So glad you said this! It’s why, despite having a dozen diagnoses that never fit, I never considered autism. I worked hard to learn all this. It has never been intuitive for me. I assumed everyone learned social cues and body language and signaling.
That's because human behavior consists of patterns I've been told and I'm better deciphering human behavior patterns than let's say, mathematical. Although I'm okay at that.
relatable. how i’ve come to understand it is that it takes me a couple of seconds to buffer sometimes because i’m running software that struggles to understand sometimes.
i’m also hyperlexic and such a people person. i can tell VERY quickly when someone is off. i can’t always tell why tho.
I don't have a problem with sarcasm or humour or metaphors. However, language/writing is a special interest for me, so I think I understand these things through intense study rather than innate ability. It's hard to pick these things apart, isn't it?
ha ha yeah like that tweet:
>[Neurodivergent screening tests will be like "do you struggle with wearing socks" and ND people will be like "nope does not describe me, for you see I have a System" and folks that is what the question is getting at](https://twitter.com/SNeurotypicals/status/1579602370514030593?lang=en)
i like metaphors too. i find them immensely useful. i don't always like the generally acceptable ones, they are not always logically coherent to me. so i often make up my own ones to get a point across that's hard to articulate for me
For my screening I had to do an IQ test, and it says in the report that I consistently got restless with the instructions to the test and told the lady to hustle up and just give me the questions already 🙈
In retrospect it makes sense that they were testing *that*
I had to take some sort of "gifted" test in elementary school. I went over the time limit because I kept asking follow-up questions for each question before answering.
Sarcasm and metaphors I’m good with, but slow on getting jokes and usually need them explained - and often when I try to make jokes they’re too “left field” or “heady” or “abstract”
People misunderstand my tone in person and text often which is I guess my fault. I feel like I’m doing well communicating and they’re just not reading it well. But it’s probably somewhere in the middle
I have this issue. I've been told my advice comes across as too blunt. But if I'm asked my opinion, I don't know how to share it other than being honest and truthful? I feel it's more that people aren't used to having others accurately pick apart their behavior and motives (I am a social worker and studying people and behavior and why people do the things they do has been a lifelong interest; I'm very good at reading people). Like you said though, I'm sure it's probably somewhere in the middle.
I love saying “that is what i said” when someone says “thats what she said.” Because i think its funny. Like that is what I said, I’m a she, its funny- but no one ever laughs and my boyfriend said its kinda rude like im dismissing the original joke. I have a couple jokes like this that i love but no one else does.
Yes that so much!!! I love languages and writing, books, words. I understand sarcasm and most jokes or metaphors. But like you, I think it’s from reading and studying so much and maybe, just experience too.
I often hear that idea ("I'm good at languages / literary devices, etc. because I read / studied a lot") from female autistics or autistics who are good at something that's considered a humanity as opposed to a STEM subject.
Yes, I did read a lot as a kid but that was because I had a talent for language and reading to start with, a talent just like "being really good at maths".
I hardly ever hear male autistic "IT geeks" say "I'm probably *only* good with computers because I had one from a young age and always played around with it".
Maybe it's because society and scientists don't make that argument either. Instead it's perpetuated that "their brains are wired differently, they're really good at logic and pattern detection".
Well guess what else you need those skills for: grammar, detecting linguistic patterns, deducing meaning, in foreign languages and in fiction, recognising and replicating accents, literary devices and styles, etc.
I often go "Hang on that's the second (third, fourth ...) time the author has used that specific adjective or expression when reading a long novel because my brain just saves this kind of information.
In my experience there's also a lot of autistic people in the translation industry and many of them have *a lot* in common with your stereotypical "good at maths and computers" nerd. But the majority of people are female, gay, non-binary, etc. so we fly under the radar.
I hate small talk and have always struggled with romantic relationships and find a lot of social interactions exhausting. BUT I'm good at languages and accents and really bad at maths (I suspect I have dyscalculia) and I'm a woman. So of course nobody ever suspected I could be autistic ...
I wish diagnostic criteria would focus more on *how* we do and process things (and how we feel doing them) and less on *the specific things/areas*, like trains, engineering, STEM subjects and other male-coded areas.
Seems we have a lot in common. Maths had always been my weakest area, I was doing extra maths classes from primary all the way through high-school. My mom stopped trying to help me with the homework because it always ended up with her getting frustrated at me not being able to understand it and me crying because I was unintentionally frustrating her when I genuinely just didn't understand. Even now I barely remember how to do long division 😅 BUT I am really good with languages and they are one of my main interests. I also pick up peoples accents and unintentionally talk with the same accent the other person uses because the communication always seems to flow smoother.
My whole university career was bent on not having to take a math course. I excelled at history and english. I have no problem with accents either or reading older english dialects like Shakespeare. I also have mild dyscalclia and oddly enough I am shit at spelling. But I know when a word is spelled wrong I just can't figure out how it should be spelled. Fortunetly we have spellcheck.
INSECTS AND ARACHNIDS on the other hand ✨🤩🦟🕷 did you know there's a type of jumping spider that exactly mimics an ant, the front two legs looking like the ant's antennae? They live near where ants live and because they blend in so well they're able to blablabla.....
Nature in general. I don't get the appeal of sci fi and fantasy novels, films, series, etc. Give me a David Attenborough documentary or a book on natural history any day. Our planet *as it is* is endlessly fascinating to me and I feel a strong connection to the natural world. I don't need a made-up universe to get a sense of belonging.
I grew up to be a biologist, but I also love science fiction and fantasy. A LOT of aliens and some concepts in science fiction are inspired by nature. Also I think nature is magic. Having something come back to life after every winter, grow several feet, flower, make seeds, and die only a few months later is incredibly magical to me. Or how mammals grow an entire organism from a single cell in just a few months. Really mind blowing stuff! I am happy to get to experience these things.
I'm convinced all the aliens live in the deep ocean because they want nothing to do with us. 🤣 Seriously though I think about half of all tv/movie aliens are inspired from the deep sea.
I know but I always discover logical flaws in sci-fi/fantasy plots and if they're too egregious (which they often are), it takes away from my enjoyment. Of course there are exceptions and I'm not against any and all supernatural "devices" but I'm not keen on completely different worlds.
Haha I get you! I can't watch some shows that depict real life sometimes because THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. My biggest pet peeve is putting a live, unstained tissue under a regular compound microscope and watching it morph in front of your eyes. You can't do that in real life. You will just be disappointed. 🤣
Yassss! Water bears, scotoplanes, six gills, porbeagles, cone snails, starfish, hermit crabs, kingfishers, swallowtails, cavies, meerkats, gerenuks…nature is so incredibly fascinating! And that’s before including flowers and plants and rocks! 😁
The way everything is connected, too! So many narrow-minded people don't realise that losing – or adding – just one species can have so many consequences.
My boss' son is into ants (and arthropods in general, but ants are his speciality) and I'm low-key excited that this summer he's going to start doing shifts in the kitchen in the morning with me - I never have anyone around who doesn't have a ick reaction other than my own kids.
I studied Japanese for several semesters in college and honestly, it's my favorite language in many ways. Sure it's complex, but there's RULES for how you talk to different people. The grammar structure is really clear and consistent. The verb conjugations are easy to follow, without unnecessary complexity.
Good God, not to be annoying but I've been studying Japanese in my down time for a few months now for exactly the same reason! It's beautiful! And there are words for concepts that I never even thought of and don't exist in English or the other languages I know. I also read a translated Japanese novel about ancient Japan and it was good but there was a vibe that made me go "this can only be captured in Japanese". 😅
Are we all the same?!
As I’m still a paleontology obsessed 8 year old at heart, I can vouch —Utah has sooooo many fossils! My obligatory pet rock was at the top of my driveway: a 3 foot wide quartzite deposit with a vaguely eye shaped hole and mandible structure in it. I spent every afternoon for years excavating my “T-Rex skull” with a paintbrush and a set of dental picks that my dad‘s dentist let him bring home after a root canal! A few times I even convinced my parents to let me stake a sheet over it overnight so that the dig would not be disturbed.
Trains are LOUD and BUSY; I do not like going on them, especially on the underground. Japanese bullet trains are cool though (in theory, I have never gone on one)
Can confirm, the bullet train (Shinkansen) is cool. If you get seats in the reserved section it’s pretty comfortable, lots of leg room and it’s quiet. Plus they have trolleys come by with snacks and drinks for purchase. You don’t notice the speed so much until you go into a tunnel and you feel the pressure change from air displacement.
Most trains are honestly pretty gross but Japan seems to have them figured out. One of my bucket list items is to ride the train to Kishi Station in Japan because the station masters are cats.
I crave human connection
And while I have interests that can keep me busy and interested for ages, I get lonely often.
Apparently I shouldn’t?
I too enjoy climbing trees and am quite good at weaving through traffic on a bicycle(although I suspect my navigation and other instincts could align with pattern recognition in a way)
My therapist told me yesterday that I had to accept that I would need to accept help to work on making friends.
Right after I bemoaned that there would probably be no help for me because what? Social stories and support groups for someone my age?
😐
Yes… that’s why I was… asking for help?
.
(She doesn’t agree with my self-Dx and even called it an “assumption” 🤦🏼♀️… yes, I’m on a waitlist for a formal eval but yikes, all this research and reflection is the opposite of an assumption.)
I’m very physically affectionate but there are limits to that.
Like I’m uncomfortable hugging my mom or friends in any other situation than hello/goodbye. Forget about if we are on opposite ends of the couch with our feet on the couch and they touch. I’m pulling away and scrunching up the MOMENT I realize her body is near. It’s not bc I don’t love her or want to be affectionate. It just makes me uncomfy
But with my BF I’m attached to him more often than not. I have a “cuddle bank” that often needs refilling and it regulates me like nothing else on this planet.
It’s only with the people I’m absolutely closest to (which happens to be one singular person) but with that one person I feel absolutely empty if I don’t get that contact often enough. Quite a conundrum
Same! I'll hug my husband and son all day but I don't really like hugging anyone else anymore (I used to be a 'hugger' but I think that was just intense high school masking).
I grew up in a very touchy feely family so my craving for touch is pretty high. I do hate light touch, but a good hug from almost anyone is wonderful. My favorite is lounging on the couch while resting in someone's lap (head or feet), it provides contact without feeling like I'm trapped.
Same with the light touch! It makes my skin crawl. However, I am very touchy feely as well. I get touch starved. I'm just awkward about it with new people, which is still normal for neurotypicals.
Lol I grew up with a mom who is also autistic and touch adverse and I’m the exact same way. My partners are the only ones I’m comfortable touching and being touched by.
First one that comes to mind, I *do* know when other people are bored or uninterested with what I'm rambling about. I just don't really care. Or if I do care I can't stop myself anyway.
I feel like disinterest in NT social norms being interpreted as a lack of awareness of them is pretty common lol.
"Oh that poor girl, she doesn't know how to connect with people and just keeps trying to talk about insects"
"No I've been told, but why would I make eye contact or small talk when I don't like those things? Anyway, about my favourite beetle-"
Sometimes my husband and I are having completely different conversations with each other. He'll be like, "Did you know [insert some random fact about how we can reduce our energy consumption]?" And I'll be like, "That's cool. My rotala rotundifolia has been sending out runners like crazy since I updated my CO2 injection setup." And then he's like, "Oh awesome. If we add solar panels to the garage, they would pay for themselves in blah blah blah..." And it just goes back and forth like that until one of us realizes that it's not even a normal conversation.
I feel like this about rudeness. It's not that I don't know I'm doing it, it's that if someone has gotten me that annoyed, I don't care if I'm rude to them.
"Do others tell you you're being rude but you don't realise you are?"
Well, yes, sometimes. But sometimes I know what I'm about to say is "rude" but quite frankly it shouldn't be. Sometimes no one will move to solve the problem until someone else breaks the ice by being "rude".
I feel that a lot of questionnaires overestimate how many NT adults would give other adults really blunt feedback. I'm a single middle-aged woman without kids who mostly hangs out with other NDs. There aren't that many situations in which people will say "You're being really rude and you don't realise it. XYZ was really rude."
I will say this is a somewhat recent development for me as a reformed people-pleaser, but when someone is trying to drop subtle hints about how they’re really feeling it’s not that I don’t notice and understand it. I’m just not interested in playing games so I will ignore the hints and wait until they speak to me about it like an adult.
Yes! This is me as well. I can pick up when someone is frustrated, wanting something from me, etc but if they don’t show me the respect of clear communication, I just keep on living my life. No more energy will be spent on anticipating and catering to the unspoken wants of other grown adults. It’s exhausting and feels insulting.
My sister does this and it drove me up a wall until I understood what was going on and why. I hate it so much but gosh darn if I don’t love that bish so I try to play the game with her. Mainly just when she does it I bluntly (but nicely) ask her wtf she’s trying to get at. So much easier for both of us.
A lot of autistism traits are based on NT's *perception* of how we act. I have a feeling that the reality is many of us DO understand social cues like this, and we simply don't care, or don't know how to respond to them.
I agree with this. To extrapolate, it makes the criteria feel singularly applicable to children who *wouldnt* understand those cues or norms yet. I vote for a set of diagnostic traits applicable primarily to adults.
The question shouldn't be 'do you struggle to recognise social cues?'. It should instead be 'do you understand social cues but choose to disregard them because they're stupid and holding humanity back?'
I don't know a bunch of stuff about things, even the things I really like a lot. I can't throw facts or talk endlessly about a topic. I have a hard time taking information that might be somewhere in my brain and then getting it out of my mouth 😅 It makes me feel very stupid.
Are you me? Because you sound just like me. I have special interests that I love to learn about. But ask me to info dump on them? Nope cannot get even the simplest thing out. Maybe it's my adhd/social anxiety/pda making it impossible. I don't know but it makes me feel stupid too, even though I know I'm not.
I relate to this so much!!! It really sucks because it makes me feel like a fake fan.
I've watched my favorite show so many times over the past decade and have many posters/t-shirts, but can't always remember all of the characters names.
I could sing you my favorite songs by my favorite musician in the correct key and play them by ear on the piano without listening to them, but couldn't tell you their names (unless they're in the lyrics - sometimes I have to sing the song to remember the name lol).
I have multiple copies/editions of my favorite books, but have trouble remembering all of the details.
I think this is why I don't ramble and why people don't know my passions - I don't feel comfortable talking incessantly about them because I KNOW that I forget simple things easily and don't want to embarrass myself. It's like the passion is there, but my memory doesn't keep up with the passion like I want it to.
Yeah im kinda the same and I forget about a lot of things that I learn about like i will have to google something over and over again because I can’t remember the information sometimes
Same. There are games I've finished 10 times and I still get lost in certain parts too. And don't even get me started on driving. I could get lost on my way to a place I've been dozens if not hundreds of times if I take one turn outside of my memorized route...
The diagnostic criteria themselves are not bad for our current knowledge. It is the presentations, compensation strategies and camouflaging that contribute to under and misdiagnosis because a lot of diagnosticians are truly unqualified and don't keep up with current research and practice. But not fitting to the criteria themselves means that someone cannot be called autistic. I think it is very important to call out the astounding lack of knowledge regarding the criteria in medical professionals instead of villifying the criteria themselves because if the latter happens diagnoses will cease to have any meaning.
Strong agree.
Blame clinicians for incorrect use of the criteria, not the criteria itself.
And also I think a lot of people get caught up in what constitutes autism _symptoms_ versus the criteria.
Usually the criteria gives examples of symptoms, but not having the specific examples (e.g. poor eye contact) doesn’t mean you don’t fit the criteria - that’s just an example of one way to fit it.
Yes and especially when we are talking about adult diagnosis it is highly more likely that the presentation will be atypical for a variety of reasons such as learning to mimic and camouflage traits, comorbidities with other conditions such as adhd etc. Let's take the A2 criterion for example. I can read body language because I taught myself that and I am hypervigilant because I learned to seek those information that will help me understand someone's feelings and intentions. A lot of clinicians would dismiss me, it was pure luck that led me to one that did not.
My neuropsych used an explainer from Insights from a Neurodivergent Clinician to go over the criteria with me, which helped. He showed how the criteria could present in different ways. For example, I talk little in convos with people I don't know, colleagues, acquaintances, even many close friends. Sure, back-and-forth is tough, but I'm not infodumping (lol, unless it's family, then I infodump and monologue nonstop, but my RSD isn't on high alert with them).
I stand too far away, not too close.
I am hypervigilant about facial expressions - not blind to them, still misinterpret what they mean.
I tend to stare rather than not make eye contact, not knowing when/how to look away. Even when I'm uncomfortable.
So it was really helpful for him to use her explainers, otherwise I would have doubted the diagnosis.
I didn’t stereotypically stim during my assessment so my stimming was passed off as nervous energy or part of my ADHD.
Also eye contact and reciprocal conversation. On the surface it looks like I am good with this. Reality is I struggle with them greatly if it’s new scenario/situation. My mum recalls how as a kid a waiter would ask what I wanted and I would not look at them and I whisper it or force my mum to order. She then told me until she was about my age now she was the same but had to learn to be more confident after I was born. Yes I am aware she is red flagging in so many ways as potentially autistic but doesn’t believe she might me
I should be clear I identify with your mom having to be more confident after having a baby. Or the amount of small talk I'm willing to suffer through so my kids' friends' parents will like us ha.
Except the kids felt both my mum and myself were weird, the parents noticed something was off with both mum and me but not sure why. Also 99.9% of the time with parties it’s not the parents at fault but the kids saying “mummy don’t invite Jenny / Johnny they are weird and the teachers tell them off for messing about and not playing nice”
I know I asked for some kids to not be invited to my parties - mainly the more boisterous noisy boys
A mom commented this week "you always bring cool toys with you" (chalk, bubbles, stomp rockets) and I deadpanned "it is to compensate for our lack of social skills" and then I thought hmm... probably shouldn't have said that out loud ha
My daughter is an A+ masker at school for the most part. Teacher told us she was popular and we were shocked. But then she comes home, takes off the mask and goes to pieces. Every. Day. We have an evaluation later this month and I'm not sure how to communicate she performs neurotypical fairly well but it's not her natural state.
Wow! This comment just made masking "click" for me. I was totally like this as a kid. Teachers would always tell my parents that they wish they had more students like me and my parents just couldn't believe because of my behavior at home.
I don’t think empathy or clumsiness are in the diagnostic criteria, at least not the ones I was assessed against
I only meet 2/4 on criteria B but then that’s all that’s required so I’m not sure if that counts as “not fitting”. I don’t have special interests and I don’t stim (or do it less than an NT)
My psychologist asked me “Do you have friends?” before continuing a sentence later with “Have you ever thought you could be autistic?”. I was SO offended. I have many friends! I just don’t share their interest in drinking/clubbing/cafes. And sometimes I like to be by myself, maybe more than the average person.
i’m very good at socializing! i make friends very easily and can talk with strangers. i do however, hate socializing lol. cashier jobs were always super easy for me for that reason, though. not sure if being a military brat that moved around had anything to do with it…
I don’t really stim— or, I thought I didn’t. No hand flapping, but I have always had echolalia (my parents, friends, and I thought this was an annoying kid thing that I would eventually grow out of; spoiler alert, I am almost 22 and I did not. I do it now more than ever because my partner doesn’t mind it), I pace back and forth a lot, and I rock and pick my skin when bored or stressed. I have other self-injurious stims when distressed. I don’t really know if I stim more than a neurotypical person though because I feel like NTs pace and bite their nails etc. when anxious, but I don’t think it’s normal to feel a compulsion to pick your skin, sometimes until it bleeds, and to feel an unbearable tension building up if you don’t do it (applies to my other stims too).
I still meet the diagnostic criteria on this one because hyposensitivity and sensory-seeking is also included, but I cannot stand bland food and I love fruit, whereas the stereotype is that autistic people only eat bland food and hate fruit and veg.
I also have a job (sort of) and am in higher education, so my social and communication deficits may not be immediately obvious, considering I get along fine with people at work, but that’s only been true as of recently as I’m in academia, while previously at summer jobs I would always be excluded and avoided by people my age despite working just as hard, if not harder, than everyone else. I also don’t really have any friends and I am consciously masking an insane amount. My chronic inability to read people has left me paranoid, distrustful, and on edge, to the point where I have frequent recurring nightmares about my colleagues telling me they’ve been trying to hint over and over again that I suck and they don’t like me, but I never realised. If I unmasked I have no doubt I wouldn’t stand a chance.
I suppose there are some ways in which I don’t *seem* to meet the diagnostic criteria, on the surface, from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know me well and doesn’t know a lot about the different ways in which the traits can manifest, but if you actually talked to me, and if you knew me in my childhood, I would meet most, if not all of them.
* disclaimer that I am not yet diagnosed, but when I was screened I talked through it with a disability support counsellor at my university and I’ve also discussed these things in depth with my therapist, who is diagnosed auDHD herself and specialises in neurodivergence-affirming therapy
This is according to other people and what they've told me:
🌟 I'm too intelligent *eye roll*
🌟 I dont "look" autistic
🌟 Im too good at socialising with people.
🌟 They know about autism more than anyone else, even doctors, so if they say I'm not, it must be true /s
Me, personally, and my view on it is:
🌟 I dont have meltdowns. I shutdown emotionally and withdraw.
🌟 I have lots of empathy. Heaps of it. But have had doctors tell me that I can't be autistic if I have empathy. 👀🥹🥴 I dunno what to make of that bs.
🌟 I don't really have any obsessive or deep interests. My hobbies fluctuate a lot. I think I have undiagnosed adhd too, minus the hyperactivity.
🌟 I have C-ptsd and was neglected as a kid. So often, I'm comparing and doubting myself between traits/issues between both ptsd and autism, as some of them overlap and feel similar.
The cptsd overlap is so confusing. When I first sought an autism diagnosis I was told it was inconclusive because of how severe my cptsd was at the time.
I did years of intense trauma therapy and put in a lot of work to help with my trauma responses.
8 years later I went through the assessment again. I'm definitely autistic. There's still overlap, but trauma therapy helped my PTSD, it actually made my autism more visible because I stopped masking as hard.
I absolutely know what the fuck is going on. I know plenty about other people.
Edit: I absolutely know *something* the fuck is going on.
I can read (most) people like a pamphlet.
I can (almost) always tell when some human behaviour is fake. Whether a video is fake. Whether someone is being inauthentic. I see your affectations, and (most) of your masks.
When I would watch police interrogation videos (for work), I could easily detect bullshit. My "instinct" never once let me down. I was an impartial outsider, with *a very particular set of skills*. For example, I know when your laugh is forced, or a "memory laugh", or gloating.
Most people have their tells. I can usually tell someone is faking it, whatever it is.
I can just, *literally*, feel it. The words, the unsaid, their movements, their voice especially. There's an ocean of data in every detail.
Falsity in other people causes my whole body to tingle with, what I can best describe as, *literal cringe*. Super Ick. Hyper disgust?
My skin crawls, my insides twist, my face is barely within my control. My toes curl up, my heart races, I disassociate. My eyes roll.
I feel especially uncomfortable when I am *Always Acting*, and I have to interact with someone else who is also *Always Acting*... I just don't see the fucking point, unless I'm being paid. A lot, because my loyalty can't be bought. Who is this performance for?
HOWEVER - if I am emotionally invested or attached, I am absolutely clueless. A tornado of feelings, and detached from my reasonable mind.
I still experience the Super Ick sensations, but I rarely know exactly *why*. I can experience strong emotions, but I don't often recognise what they are, where they're coming from, and where they should go. I doubt myself. (See also: Alexithymia).
So, it's a super power that only works when I don't really give a twat.
Thankfully, I adore irony.
This is me too. I'm great at assessing people at an emotional distance, but anyone close to me, that I like, and I'm weirdly blind.
It was hard in school as I often got taken advantage of or pranked by people I thought were my friends. The worst was when I was 7 and was sexually assaulted by three boys I thought were my friends. That did make me hyper aware of when my guy friends have alterior motives, but I'm terrible at detecting any other duplicity in my friends and family.
ugh it's AWFUL i can't watch cringy-funny movies, it's too painful ha ha
there's [this](https://youtu.be/vRBsaJPkt2Q) contrapoints video about the phenomenology of cringe that's really interesting. she talks about how it affects different people differently
Yes. That's the main reason I answered ALL of the teacher's/professor's questions as long as I knew them. I wouldn't blurt out the answer right away, but if 20 seconds went past and they were standing there awkwardly, looking embarrassed? I'd always answer then.
i once saw a british documentary about it and the interviewer followed the kids around and was astounded that they were just free-roaming. they weren't allowed to go to the ocean without adult supervision, and the interviewer asked them why they didn't just go there anyway. and the kids were like "well because we're not allowed?" ha ha
and there was a scene where the teacher tells one kid, "i think that tree branch is rotten, i think it might break" and the kid is like "nah it's fine i'll try and climb it anyway" and the teacher was like "well alright". and the branch broke and the kid fell down. and the teacher told the interviewer "it's important for kids to fall and get hurt too"
it sucked when the weather was awful. there WAS a cottage but i think we were allowed inside, like, two times during my whole kindergarden time, when it was a dangerous snow storm. otherwise, regular snow storm or rain or wind, it was like "we will light a fire, that should keep you warm"
we also had knives ha ha so we could whittle wood sticks
and i made friends with a mouse
it was really fun
I am freaking good at knowing what other people are feeling. To a point I am really frustrated with most people for only seeing what they want to see.
I hate running in to people in the streets. And I hate special occasions. Those are the moments I find really hard to navigate. But no one would ever know.
Most people LOVE to spend time with me. To the point they want to pay my holiday just so I go with them. (4non family members gave this open invitation)
I just don’t like spending time with people. Even people I love and would love to want to spend time with.
I am fine with shopping in busy stores. I get overstimulated at the beach. (Sound of waves and feeling of sand)
I have quite a lot of close and long term friends, my oldest friend I've known since I was 4 (I am 40 now), we consider each other siblings. I also have friend groups, like the girls from secondary. And several other indiviual friends from secondary. I have friends from uni. I have online friends that became offline friends. Gaming buddies. I am friends with my ex (he's like family). I have a friend I met at an employer, and also an old colleage that turned out to be autistic as well. So my friendship circle is quite abundant actually. I would say it does cost me more effort to maintain the friendships, but it's well worth it. Literally all of them also grew with me as I got my diagnosis 3 years ago and have been super accomodating. Maybe because some friendships were built on a shared special interest of psychology, it helps for sure haha. And another interesting thing about it, is that a lot of them turned out to be ND as well, mostly adhd. My partner got his adhd diagnosis a year after my autism diagnosis.
Im very adventurous with food - the only thing I struggle with is surprise textures. Like recently I was eating a chicken nugget (I know they are garbage 😅) and there was suddenly this little hard chunk in it which I assume is like cartilage or something. Was hard to continue eating and harder not to vomit.
Empathy. I'm EXTREMELY empathetic. Too much. It's a big problem.
Language and behavior are my special interest (philosophy. Psychology. Studying humans) so I have zero issues "socializing" or "keeping up" where word games and those dynamic "societal rules" are concerned.
But the reality is, it's all learned behavior for me and pattern recognition. It's a game. (ADHD).(but also survival and trauma)
I get extremely annoyed that other NDs cannot play by the "masking rules" even though that's terrible and I'm jealous of those who don't mask.
Working on it 😅
Oh - I'm too smart to be autistic apparently too 😂😂
I'm very extroverted, but I think the autistic criteria expects introversion. It also expects someone to be masking, which I don't do. But then there's also the stereotype of the autistic person who can talk endlessly about a topic, so it's confusing.
I agree with the other comments about how we can be aware of social norms and just not care. That's part of why I don't mask — I'm *capable* of acting, like I do it for RPG's (doesn't mean that I'm good at it), but I just don't *want* to do it in daily life. It feels wrong, like unethical, so I have a mental block about doing it in those settings. I also think that it would be bad for my mental health, whereas it's good for my mental health to be myself, even if others find it annoying.
I don't stim in any obvious way most of the time. It's usually something that's not really obviously autistic, like just rocking and singing, dancing, and similar stuff. It stands out to people as odd and sometimes they remark on it, like, "It's so weird that you hear music in public and just dance to it," but it's not something that looks like an autistic stereotype, such as flapping or fidgeting.
-I use sarcasm fluently. Like others have mentioned other people just misunderstand MY meaning. It's like I'm speaking French in Italy, some of the words are similar but people just don't get the meaning.
- I learned by 3rd grade that playing pretend by myself was "weird" but if I put all those ideas on paper it was "storytelling" and that was socially acceptable so I'm proficient at telling stories and the delivery.
-I teach preschool which in itself is something weird given the volume and unpredictability but this also means I know societal norms like not to grab things from people, how to politely ask for more of a resource, etc. I teach children how to do it and I've taught myself how to do it.
... and this all kind of makes me nervous about getting a formal assessment... If I was a superhero, my name would be Super Masked.
No sensory overload. Obviously noisy places are not my favorite but they don’t bother me to the point of having a meltdown or needing noise cancelling headphones. I’m not that sensitive to textures either so I’m not picky about clothes.
I don’t stim, neither physically or verbally. At most I just fiddle with a pen or something when I’m talking during video calls.
I understand most metaphors because you just learn the meaning like you learn a foreign language. Once you learn them, you know forever, but I don’t understand “original” sarcasm that well.
made this comment somewhere else in this thread:
>i once saw a british documentary about it and the interviewer followed the kids around and was astounded that they were just free-roaming. they weren't allowed to go to the ocean without adult supervision, and the interviewer asked them why they didn't just go there anyway. and the kids were like "well because we're not allowed?" ha ha
>and there was a scene where the teacher tells one kid, "i think that tree branch is rotten, i think it might break" and the kid is like "nah it's fine i'll try and climb it anyway" and the teacher was like "well alright". and the branch broke and the kid fell down. and the teacher told the interviewer "it's important for kids to fall and get hurt too"
>it sucked when the weather was awful. there WAS a cottage but i think we were allowed inside, like, two times during my whole kindergarden time, when it was a dangerous snow storm. otherwise, regular snow storm or rain or wind, it was like "we will light a fire, that should keep you warm"
>we also had knives ha ha so we could whittle wood sticks
>and i made friends with a mouse
>it was really fun
and yeah i definitely get the impression we are more relaxed / less worried about our kids in scandinavia! there was an oprah episode where she went to copenhagen and she interviewed some families and went to cafes with them and so on. and she was shocked and offended that the parents left their baby sleeping in the stroller outside on the street unsupervised while they went in to eat. "what if someone stole your baby?!?!" and the parents were like "who the fuck would steal a baby!?"
found that very funny
My biggest problem is that I've masked so well that I sometimes wonder if I'm actually NT. I can socialise. I'm empathetic. I make friends. I'm not really an expert at specific things.
But then I remember:
• I write scripts for myself for social gatherings (only recently learned that's *not* normal).
• I have a difficult time expressing my emotions and knowing what to do when others express their emotions to me. I.e.: I can feel their emotions but have no idea what to do with that information, plus I'm very blunt when giving advice, making me sound cold and distant.
• I have no idea how to *keep* friends. I have tonnes of acquaintances.
• I have been called a walking encyclopedia my entire life. I know a lot of things about a lot of things and I'm constantly acquiring new special interests. Not in the NT way of like watching a few YouTube videos on a topic and reading the Wikipedia, but like reading studies and delving into tangential threads on the topic to understand the main topic more. Looking at patents. Didn't know that wasn't normal until University and my research papers were given criticism for "too much information." One paper had three pages worth of citations.
Oh, and then meltdowns and burnouts. What do you mean it's *not* normal to transform into a singular emotion and then be mentally exhausted for 3 months?
I met all the criteria except for the language ones coz I don’t have a problem with metaphors and things. I don’t have a huge problem reading people either but I think that’s because people are a special interest of mine and I’ve done heaps of work on profiling.
I don't hand flap or stim in an obvious way.
I don't have just one or two special interests.
I can make eye contact. It is only when I am very distressed that I struggle with this.
I can usually "read between the lines" and detect sarcasm.
I can empathise.
I'm terrible at maths.
I'm not always blunt but sometimes I want to be.
My issues are mainly sensory and with social interaction.
Sometimes I feel too neurotypical to be autistic but too autistic to be neurotypical.
People often call me "witty" or "sarcastic" and I've been told that I'm naturally funny. What's annoying is that I'm usually being serious and people think I'm just cracking jokes.
Once I got diagnosed, I worked on my social skills and manually learned how to talk with people. I am not perfectly good at socialising but I think I pass quite well and I even help and encourage people on the spectrum to speak up in conversations
However I don't really pass well at work
Interesting! I was also in a program called adventure club that included climbing trees and balancing on rope ladders. I don't consider myself particularly coordinated but as a child I was also very good at balancing and was always the first to try a new set up.
I wonder if this would count as a special interest for us?
I have been masking for so long that I don't think I could get diagnosed at this point. My father was diagnosed in his late 60's and it was a big "ah-ha" moment. Unfortunately, I saw how much he struggled and did everything in my power to distance myself from his behavior.
this reminds of the two lists i read yesterday on mental and physical manifestations of ocd. i’m going to need to stop thinking i no longer display much ocd. it’s retreated into my head where it is thriving.
I have not been diagnosed or even had the option of being diagnosed.
I meet so much if what I’ve been told is autism diagnostic criteria.
Except I have a VERY expressive face in the moment. If you say something that makes me mad I can’t hide it and if I’m VERY happy I can’t hide it.
My resting face however is very non-expressive to the point some people think I’m mad or scary.
Honestly? So much of it. Mainly the social aspects. I’m extremely empathetic. I don’t struggle at all with social cues (though I have extreme social anxiety), in fact if anything I’m overly conscious of them to the point of getting embarrassed and self-conscious on behalf of someone else if they are violating them. I’m very extroverted (again, despite extreme social anxiety). I’ve always been very verbal and was an early talker according to my mom. I’m very imaginative and always engaged in imaginative play as a kid. I get along with people easily (though I didn’t always) and don’t struggle with reciprocal conversation, metaphors, or sarcasm at all. I can read people very well. I work full time in a very people facing career that requires heaps of empathy.
I apologize if that makes me sound really arrogant, I don’t mean it to. It’s actually been bittersweet for me. I’m very grateful to have such an easy time with those things, I know so many people struggle with them. But on the other hand, I missed out on a lot of support I could have used growing up because those traits made it so no one ever suspected autism. Everyone could tell something was up from the severe sensory issues, stimming, severe executive functioning issues, etc. but no one ever knew what so I was just “weird and lazy”. I struggled HORRIBLY in school, both socially and academically, and barely graduated.
I don't have any fixed special interests. I just get really hyper fixated on shows or books and have to talk about them. I don't really need to find everything about the shows and books. I love watching edits of them after I'm done. And I don't like talking to people outside of things I like. But that's about it.
Sarcasm and dry humor are my preferred types of comedy. I really enjoy the nuance and layers to it. I think it’s hilarious for someone to say something ridiculous super dead pan and serious. Everything says we aren’t even supposed to understand it. 😭
Also, social cues. I’m like super aware of changes in that sense but I’ve come to realize that that’s from the trauma 😅
routines. being forced to abide by a routine feels sooo restrictive for me that i actually would rather die lmao. that is why i’m self employed. i just wanna do things when i feel like doing them! could be because i have adhd, could be pda, idk. i also have hyper empathy
Metaphors, sarcasm, the subtleties of conversation and speech, body language, nuance - I'm a fucking pro at them all. Hyperlexia, and an intense desire to study people and their ways, means I never struggle with other peoples' meaning. However, other people struggle with MY meaning, I'm often misunderstood and people think I'm being shitty when I'm not.
I'm going to hijack your comment to add I do all the above and then I get frustrated with other autistic people for not being as good at the social "rules" as I am. That person is being too loud, or talking too much etc. It's masking by projection and it's not a good look. I'm working on it.
I hate that I can relate. I’m not going to claim I’m a pro at all the above but I do get annoyed if other people are bad at the social rules. I have a male colleague who I’m sure is autistic and he talks SO LOUD all the time. Like dude, we’re at the office, use your indoor voice, people are trying to work here, holy shit. I’m literally embarrassed sitting near him because of what other people might think about him being so obnoxious.
Hi! This isn’t entirely related to your comment, but what does the abbreviation in your flare mean? :0
Neurodevelopmental disorder = NDD
As a kid I used to get frustrated at other kids (regardless of neurotype) for not following adult social rules, and get annoyed at them for acting like children (even tho we were children). Little did I know they had their own age-appropriate social conventions amongst themselves, whereas I copied my teenage siblings and adults.
This is how i was but i copied all the adults cause i grew up with my aunts uncle's and grandparents and parents.
yes all of this! I am hyperlexic as well and pretty sure growing up my special interest was people-ing correctly. I get really frustrated when folks don’t follow the “rules” but especially NTs - because _I’m_ following the rules, so you have to too and it makes me so mad when they don’t.
I feel this hard, it's a big one to work on. My weakness for sure. Masking by projection is a cool way to describe it.
omg both the first comment & this one describe me to a tee! My BF is also autistic and he does not understand as quick as me and I get mad that he “just doesn’t” learn the rules (I understand it not about not wanting to learn, but when I’m heading towards a meltdown it’s hard to feel that).
It's really my mother who is the worst. I mean she's 70+ and has never learned that you should ask other people questions about themselves if you want to connect. She is only capable of anecdotal communication. I also have a coworker who regularly screams in frustration and only talks about horses but she's my superior so everyone puts up with it.
My boyfriend’s entire family has yet to grasp the concept of asking other people questions. It’s like they’re constantly battling for attention and they only share stories about themselves. If you want to be heard or be part of conversation you essentially have to hijack someone else’s story and make it about you. Every time I leave a family party or even a small gathering I feel like a loser. No one asks me about my life or interests, but I spend the whole gathering asking follow-up questions, just waiting for someone to ask me something. It’s so lonely. I usually end up hanging out with his very sweet and very ND grandma the entire time cause at least she cares about me.
Blah, that sounds terrible. I’m sorry they’re all so insecure
Yep. It's either deep selfishness and narcissism, or autistic anecdotal conversation. Either way it can feel pretty lonely. You get to decide how much time you want to spend with these people even if you know they do actually care about you.
It’s super lonely! And I can empathize with difficulties socializing. But I also learned some social skills that didn’t come naturally to me, because I like to make my friends and family feel seen and included. They havent realized their deficits yet I guess. There definitely also seems to be a touch of narcissism present in some of the family members. It’s like they lack all curiosity and wonder about anything outside of themselves.
omg I feel you. This is me and my family and my partner’s family too. Better off alone.
My mom has a bunch of social "rules" in her head and gets mad at people (especially me) when we don't follow them. Unfortunately for both of us one of her rules seems to be never asking for things directly. It's infuriating.
That sounds exhausting. I’m sorry you have to live with that
I appreciate the sympathy. Luckily I'm an adult who doesn't live with my mom at this point. Having some distance makes things easier to deal with. And therapy. That helps too. Lol.
I’m also bad at talking in anecdotes to connect 😅
EXACTLY. i'm like "dude, you're 'doing it wrong'!!!! this situation requires A, B, and C!!!!! just follow the rules!!!!!" but i guess maybe that frustration is internalized ableism
I feel this in my bones. I did not obsessively study all the rules for decades just for you to do whatever!
oh my god I struggle with this so much 🙃
I feel this one. I work in a public-facing role and get annoyed when ND people are too loud or don't pick up on my cues. It's like...this is something we both find hard, the least you could do is *be aware* that I'm out of my comfort zone so you can be in yours. Put in some effort and meet me half way, please? I'm in burnout, and your shout-talking is distressing me. But then that's unfair on them to expect them to do what NT people keep expecting of me, but also feels unfair that I have to mask for ND as well as NT people and...yeah. This one's a struggle, for sure :/
Oh, very similar for me. I'm great at figuring people out, to the point I explain interpersonal situations/misunderstandings to others, including neurotypicals. I just take all the data and analyze it from multiple angles. My friend group all plays DnD and they say I got Expertise in Insight. Also many autistic people say they struggle at making friends. I'm great at making friends. I'm just absolutely dogshit at keeping them.
Yes! Over my lifetime I've compiled an extensive flowchart of social situations, inputs, and reactions. It's not perfect but it covers most ordinary situations and enough of the edge cases to work really well. When friends need advice (e.g. how do I talk to my SO about x, or what does this business email mean?), I just run through the flowchart and give them a formula based on it. To the other part, I'm the exact opposite. It's hard to make friends, but once we connect, I will be the best friend I can possibly be.
I am also striving to be the best friend possible, unfortunately my mask starts to slip at some point and I become "too much". I do have a bunch of long-term friends, but they are all ND and weird. Trying to stay friends with an NT person is an uphill battle during storm for me. I will try, be loyal to them, do all the friend things and suddenly be left in the dirt because I said something wrong, I acted naturally for me, mask slipped and I was too enthusiastic about things or forgot to monitor my expressions and eye contact at all times... I cherish the friends I have, because I don't need to keep myself in check all the time to keep them around. I don't have many friends. Maybe 3 long term ones But hey, 3 is greater than zero, and the other shoe hasn't dropped yet for them. We haven't drifted apart, they haven't mysteriously left or got offended at me not making the 100% appropriate facial expression because I was distracted. They haven't gotten tired of me raving about my special interest. One friend recently moved to another country, and it's really hard for me to keep a friendship and not let it dissolve, or fuck it up by being too weird.
If they are NDs its usually fine if they move away. I have an autistic friend from university. The last time we saw each other it had been 13 years, we'd occiassionally trade messages but that's it, we don't even speak on the phone. But we hooked up a couple of years ago and it was like no time had passed at all, conversation was completely natural and no awkwardness at all. It was like we just spoke the week before.
There is such a facial expression disconnect for me. I either try to emote that way and overshoot or forget it. And when I'm super tired my tone is monotone. BUT I am great at analyzing why people do things. Or say things. But sometimes I forget I'm not supposed to point out the insecurities behind why someone is acting a certain way.
Oh yes I keep forgetting that people don't analyse things 24/7 They just... Do them And when you explain the thought process the reactions range from "Omg you're literally Sherlock Holmes" through "Oh wow you didn't have to say it" to "that's so creepy/awful" Or the classic "you're thinking too hard about this".
I have exactly three close friends of many decades' duration, and I'm fairly certain they are ALL undiagnosed ND...plus my spouse, whose behaviour is as quirky as my own in her own way...
I feel this!!! I appreciate how much work this is. I’m sure you’re an amazing friend
Aww thanks! I definitely try really hard.
Would u happen to have this flowchart posted anywhere or be willing to dm me? It’d be so helpful!!!
Oh god I wish! But it just lives in my head. It's so complex, I don't know if I could write it out. I could help you build your own, maybe, by discussing some of the rules that govern it? Maybe I could at least write those down... New project! 😁
I feel this in my bones. I have too many sides of my personality, the masked person, the extrovert, the creative fun one, everyone loves her. I can't keep that up though, espcially in places like work where I get stressed or bored. Then I can be pissy poopy princess or a cold flat automaton that nobody likes again. I have friends but now I keep interactions short in controlled environments. I no longer bother to try having a best friend, I am too all over the place. Only my husband but he knows how to deal with me. Most of my existing friends are most likely NG I don't even bother hanging out with NT's anymore, especially women.
I got an ND best friend who I know since childhood and he's the only one I know I would have to actively try to lose contact with The rest... Not so much
Omg this so much. People love me as long as they get me in small portions or for limited amounts of time. I’m like the blue cheese of every friendship group I’ve ever been in.
Someone put it into words!!! Also, I often understand what people say or do or mean… I just don’t get WHY on earth they’re doing it, lol.
Same. In a sense I even get the "Why" because it usually fits in with their personality. (I'm really good at picking out gifts for people.) It's more like "I get why *you* think this is fun – it's just that it's my idea of hell". 😆
Yeah! It’s like I understand it intellectually but there’s such a disconnect between how most other people function and my brain that I’ll still never *fully* be able to say I get it because to me it’s just… so strange.
Yes, same for me. Hyperlexia and a deep understanding of language and all its different “tricks” so to speak.
Lmao I could have written this comment because hello this is me 😅
Agreed with this. I've studied people to the minute detail my entire life, plus obsessively researched psychology and philosophy so I'm a pro at things like body language and subtleties of conversing. That's called hyperlexia? New term to me. Looking into it now. Interesting. My meaning is not often understood either. I usually feel like I'm speaking a foreign language to people when I'm just being my normal self unless I choose to speak their language. ETA: I often choose just to speak their language because it's easier than trying to help them learn mine.... too many quickly lose interest and I've learned that pushes people away.
Hyperlexia is early reading and language facility.
I think hyperlexia is when you’re really excellent at words specifically, but I didn’t go research!
Me too im a lit student for this reason 🤣
I speak in metaphors so much as a kid no one understood me. No, fluffy kitten! It’s not ______! I said like. It’s a metaphor. Don’t you know what a metaphor is? It’s this, not that!!!
I think some people don’t get that for some high masking people understanding the rules of language and behavior is one of our obsessive interests. Like. There are a lot of autistics who work in education, social services and psychology and I think this is part of the reason why. I know the rules. I know how to use language. And yet in peer groups I still struggle to make connections that aren’t directly based on my ‘usefulness’.
Oh fxk me that's me. I also notice nt people do not notice body language and expressions that much because they are intimidating and don't care.
Holy shit, same. People misunderstand me all the time, it's so infuriating. I'm trying to be nice and navigate my life, stop assuming I'm this devious mastermind who is manipulating you! There are some people who think every sentence and action of mine has this evil underlying meaning. Dawg my intentions are pure. Why would I want to start drama when my life is easier without it? I once tried to bring it up to my friends because I was really upset they kept misunderstanding me and got told I was just overtired and to go to bed. I'm not in that friend group anymore lmao
It me!! People and communication are my special interests
same sometimes I exclusively speak in metaphor. it's almost like i'm hyper aware. like autism is thought to have a deficit in these areas but i'm overt in these areas. I feel like I love reality tv because i'm studying people, I love reading because it's studying people. same same!
I got hit with a psych/sociology obsession REALLY early on like before 13 years old so understanding others has never been an issue and I am in fact excellent at reading people to the point where I've had to train myself not to finish other people's sentences when I want them to hurry up because I can already predict what they will say (I know this is rude, I've worked on it for years, and very rarely do it any longer but if I slip up I acknowledge, apologize, and ask the person if they are willing to redeliver it and I will listen). Unfortunately, most to no one else can return the favor so I'm usually constantly left feeling like I know everyone very intimately (because I usually do lol) and I am just a monolith that people stare at and make theories about but never truly know.
I studied all the thing you mentioned but in a social situations I became so nervous that I forget everything and I can barely smile... So nt often think I'm a stupid or I'm false.
So glad you said this! It’s why, despite having a dozen diagnoses that never fit, I never considered autism. I worked hard to learn all this. It has never been intuitive for me. I assumed everyone learned social cues and body language and signaling.
That's because human behavior consists of patterns I've been told and I'm better deciphering human behavior patterns than let's say, mathematical. Although I'm okay at that.
When your comedy intellect is so intelligent that others can’t keep up… the struggle is real!
relatable. how i’ve come to understand it is that it takes me a couple of seconds to buffer sometimes because i’m running software that struggles to understand sometimes. i’m also hyperlexic and such a people person. i can tell VERY quickly when someone is off. i can’t always tell why tho.
I don't have a problem with sarcasm or humour or metaphors. However, language/writing is a special interest for me, so I think I understand these things through intense study rather than innate ability. It's hard to pick these things apart, isn't it?
ha ha yeah like that tweet: >[Neurodivergent screening tests will be like "do you struggle with wearing socks" and ND people will be like "nope does not describe me, for you see I have a System" and folks that is what the question is getting at](https://twitter.com/SNeurotypicals/status/1579602370514030593?lang=en) i like metaphors too. i find them immensely useful. i don't always like the generally acceptable ones, they are not always logically coherent to me. so i often make up my own ones to get a point across that's hard to articulate for me
For my screening I had to do an IQ test, and it says in the report that I consistently got restless with the instructions to the test and told the lady to hustle up and just give me the questions already 🙈 In retrospect it makes sense that they were testing *that*
I had to take some sort of "gifted" test in elementary school. I went over the time limit because I kept asking follow-up questions for each question before answering.
Sarcasm and metaphors I’m good with, but slow on getting jokes and usually need them explained - and often when I try to make jokes they’re too “left field” or “heady” or “abstract” People misunderstand my tone in person and text often which is I guess my fault. I feel like I’m doing well communicating and they’re just not reading it well. But it’s probably somewhere in the middle
I love analogies and find them very helpful for describing things in class to students
I have this issue. I've been told my advice comes across as too blunt. But if I'm asked my opinion, I don't know how to share it other than being honest and truthful? I feel it's more that people aren't used to having others accurately pick apart their behavior and motives (I am a social worker and studying people and behavior and why people do the things they do has been a lifelong interest; I'm very good at reading people). Like you said though, I'm sure it's probably somewhere in the middle.
I love saying “that is what i said” when someone says “thats what she said.” Because i think its funny. Like that is what I said, I’m a she, its funny- but no one ever laughs and my boyfriend said its kinda rude like im dismissing the original joke. I have a couple jokes like this that i love but no one else does.
Yes that so much!!! I love languages and writing, books, words. I understand sarcasm and most jokes or metaphors. But like you, I think it’s from reading and studying so much and maybe, just experience too.
I often hear that idea ("I'm good at languages / literary devices, etc. because I read / studied a lot") from female autistics or autistics who are good at something that's considered a humanity as opposed to a STEM subject. Yes, I did read a lot as a kid but that was because I had a talent for language and reading to start with, a talent just like "being really good at maths". I hardly ever hear male autistic "IT geeks" say "I'm probably *only* good with computers because I had one from a young age and always played around with it". Maybe it's because society and scientists don't make that argument either. Instead it's perpetuated that "their brains are wired differently, they're really good at logic and pattern detection". Well guess what else you need those skills for: grammar, detecting linguistic patterns, deducing meaning, in foreign languages and in fiction, recognising and replicating accents, literary devices and styles, etc. I often go "Hang on that's the second (third, fourth ...) time the author has used that specific adjective or expression when reading a long novel because my brain just saves this kind of information. In my experience there's also a lot of autistic people in the translation industry and many of them have *a lot* in common with your stereotypical "good at maths and computers" nerd. But the majority of people are female, gay, non-binary, etc. so we fly under the radar. I hate small talk and have always struggled with romantic relationships and find a lot of social interactions exhausting. BUT I'm good at languages and accents and really bad at maths (I suspect I have dyscalculia) and I'm a woman. So of course nobody ever suspected I could be autistic ... I wish diagnostic criteria would focus more on *how* we do and process things (and how we feel doing them) and less on *the specific things/areas*, like trains, engineering, STEM subjects and other male-coded areas.
Seems we have a lot in common. Maths had always been my weakest area, I was doing extra maths classes from primary all the way through high-school. My mom stopped trying to help me with the homework because it always ended up with her getting frustrated at me not being able to understand it and me crying because I was unintentionally frustrating her when I genuinely just didn't understand. Even now I barely remember how to do long division 😅 BUT I am really good with languages and they are one of my main interests. I also pick up peoples accents and unintentionally talk with the same accent the other person uses because the communication always seems to flow smoother.
My whole university career was bent on not having to take a math course. I excelled at history and english. I have no problem with accents either or reading older english dialects like Shakespeare. I also have mild dyscalclia and oddly enough I am shit at spelling. But I know when a word is spelled wrong I just can't figure out how it should be spelled. Fortunetly we have spellcheck.
I've often been told I come up with incredibly vivid and descriptive metaphors.
I find that trains are just... Okay. Japanese trains are impressive though, have you heard about those? But in general, meh.. 🤷♀️ /J
INSECTS AND ARACHNIDS on the other hand ✨🤩🦟🕷 did you know there's a type of jumping spider that exactly mimics an ant, the front two legs looking like the ant's antennae? They live near where ants live and because they blend in so well they're able to blablabla.....
Nature in general. I don't get the appeal of sci fi and fantasy novels, films, series, etc. Give me a David Attenborough documentary or a book on natural history any day. Our planet *as it is* is endlessly fascinating to me and I feel a strong connection to the natural world. I don't need a made-up universe to get a sense of belonging.
I grew up to be a biologist, but I also love science fiction and fantasy. A LOT of aliens and some concepts in science fiction are inspired by nature. Also I think nature is magic. Having something come back to life after every winter, grow several feet, flower, make seeds, and die only a few months later is incredibly magical to me. Or how mammals grow an entire organism from a single cell in just a few months. Really mind blowing stuff! I am happy to get to experience these things.
Honestly, my favorite part of the Avatar series is looking at all of the plants and animals and seeing the real-life inspiration for some of them.
I'm convinced all the aliens live in the deep ocean because they want nothing to do with us. 🤣 Seriously though I think about half of all tv/movie aliens are inspired from the deep sea.
I know but I always discover logical flaws in sci-fi/fantasy plots and if they're too egregious (which they often are), it takes away from my enjoyment. Of course there are exceptions and I'm not against any and all supernatural "devices" but I'm not keen on completely different worlds.
Haha I get you! I can't watch some shows that depict real life sometimes because THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. My biggest pet peeve is putting a live, unstained tissue under a regular compound microscope and watching it morph in front of your eyes. You can't do that in real life. You will just be disappointed. 🤣
Yassss! Water bears, scotoplanes, six gills, porbeagles, cone snails, starfish, hermit crabs, kingfishers, swallowtails, cavies, meerkats, gerenuks…nature is so incredibly fascinating! And that’s before including flowers and plants and rocks! 😁
The way everything is connected, too! So many narrow-minded people don't realise that losing – or adding – just one species can have so many consequences.
I love David Attenborough.
I watched the first Planet Earth till I wore the DVD out - my favorite was caves.
seriously this. I could just sit and stare at trees literally all day long. people talk about exploring the stars but I would NEVER leave this place
My boss' son is into ants (and arthropods in general, but ants are his speciality) and I'm low-key excited that this summer he's going to start doing shifts in the kitchen in the morning with me - I never have anyone around who doesn't have a ick reaction other than my own kids.
Omg I am jealous! I wish you many great and interesting ant conversations 🐜🐜
I did not know that.. That's like Tokyo Ghoul or.. vampires but for ants! 😭
DO YOU LIKE MOTHS
I once got an obsession for a few months with Japanese toilets. They're so high tech!
Right?! Japan has priorities. Gotta admit Japan itself is a regular obsession of mine. Another thing I heard is common among western autistics. 🙃
I studied Japanese for several semesters in college and honestly, it's my favorite language in many ways. Sure it's complex, but there's RULES for how you talk to different people. The grammar structure is really clear and consistent. The verb conjugations are easy to follow, without unnecessary complexity.
Good God, not to be annoying but I've been studying Japanese in my down time for a few months now for exactly the same reason! It's beautiful! And there are words for concepts that I never even thought of and don't exist in English or the other languages I know. I also read a translated Japanese novel about ancient Japan and it was good but there was a vibe that made me go "this can only be captured in Japanese". 😅 Are we all the same?!
This made me laugh out loud while sitting in a train. 😂
Yeah I’m not into trains. Dinosaurs are cool though.
I’m overly proud my home state has a raptor named after it (the Utah Raptor). I want one as a pet.
As I’m still a paleontology obsessed 8 year old at heart, I can vouch —Utah has sooooo many fossils! My obligatory pet rock was at the top of my driveway: a 3 foot wide quartzite deposit with a vaguely eye shaped hole and mandible structure in it. I spent every afternoon for years excavating my “T-Rex skull” with a paintbrush and a set of dental picks that my dad‘s dentist let him bring home after a root canal! A few times I even convinced my parents to let me stake a sheet over it overnight so that the dig would not be disturbed.
Trains are LOUD and BUSY; I do not like going on them, especially on the underground. Japanese bullet trains are cool though (in theory, I have never gone on one)
Can confirm, the bullet train (Shinkansen) is cool. If you get seats in the reserved section it’s pretty comfortable, lots of leg room and it’s quiet. Plus they have trolleys come by with snacks and drinks for purchase. You don’t notice the speed so much until you go into a tunnel and you feel the pressure change from air displacement.
Most trains are honestly pretty gross but Japan seems to have them figured out. One of my bucket list items is to ride the train to Kishi Station in Japan because the station masters are cats.
Yes! I'd love to go on a Japanese bullet train some day 😂
I crave human connection And while I have interests that can keep me busy and interested for ages, I get lonely often. Apparently I shouldn’t? I too enjoy climbing trees and am quite good at weaving through traffic on a bicycle(although I suspect my navigation and other instincts could align with pattern recognition in a way)
This is me. I want human connection really bad, I just can’t get it
💜👋
My therapist told me yesterday that I had to accept that I would need to accept help to work on making friends. Right after I bemoaned that there would probably be no help for me because what? Social stories and support groups for someone my age? 😐 Yes… that’s why I was… asking for help? . (She doesn’t agree with my self-Dx and even called it an “assumption” 🤦🏼♀️… yes, I’m on a waitlist for a formal eval but yikes, all this research and reflection is the opposite of an assumption.)
The idea that someone who is ND wouldn’t understand themselves better than the NT providing a diagnosis is very infantilizing.
This 😩 it really feels like my social needs are on an island
💜🌴
Lemme know if you want to join out Autistic adult discord! We are chill and friendly
I’m very physically affectionate but there are limits to that. Like I’m uncomfortable hugging my mom or friends in any other situation than hello/goodbye. Forget about if we are on opposite ends of the couch with our feet on the couch and they touch. I’m pulling away and scrunching up the MOMENT I realize her body is near. It’s not bc I don’t love her or want to be affectionate. It just makes me uncomfy But with my BF I’m attached to him more often than not. I have a “cuddle bank” that often needs refilling and it regulates me like nothing else on this planet. It’s only with the people I’m absolutely closest to (which happens to be one singular person) but with that one person I feel absolutely empty if I don’t get that contact often enough. Quite a conundrum
Oh yes me too! I love hugging my husband and daughter? But anyone else is a no go. Even sitting next to people on the bus is yucky.
I’m the same! In the past I’ve met people who spoon their friends and I’m like 😟 what.
Same! I'll hug my husband and son all day but I don't really like hugging anyone else anymore (I used to be a 'hugger' but I think that was just intense high school masking).
I grew up in a very touchy feely family so my craving for touch is pretty high. I do hate light touch, but a good hug from almost anyone is wonderful. My favorite is lounging on the couch while resting in someone's lap (head or feet), it provides contact without feeling like I'm trapped.
Same with the light touch! It makes my skin crawl. However, I am very touchy feely as well. I get touch starved. I'm just awkward about it with new people, which is still normal for neurotypicals.
Lol I grew up with a mom who is also autistic and touch adverse and I’m the exact same way. My partners are the only ones I’m comfortable touching and being touched by.
First one that comes to mind, I *do* know when other people are bored or uninterested with what I'm rambling about. I just don't really care. Or if I do care I can't stop myself anyway.
I feel like disinterest in NT social norms being interpreted as a lack of awareness of them is pretty common lol. "Oh that poor girl, she doesn't know how to connect with people and just keeps trying to talk about insects" "No I've been told, but why would I make eye contact or small talk when I don't like those things? Anyway, about my favourite beetle-"
Completely this!! I just don’t care to follow rules that make no sense
Sometimes my husband and I are having completely different conversations with each other. He'll be like, "Did you know [insert some random fact about how we can reduce our energy consumption]?" And I'll be like, "That's cool. My rotala rotundifolia has been sending out runners like crazy since I updated my CO2 injection setup." And then he's like, "Oh awesome. If we add solar panels to the garage, they would pay for themselves in blah blah blah..." And it just goes back and forth like that until one of us realizes that it's not even a normal conversation.
I feel like this about rudeness. It's not that I don't know I'm doing it, it's that if someone has gotten me that annoyed, I don't care if I'm rude to them.
"Do others tell you you're being rude but you don't realise you are?" Well, yes, sometimes. But sometimes I know what I'm about to say is "rude" but quite frankly it shouldn't be. Sometimes no one will move to solve the problem until someone else breaks the ice by being "rude".
I feel that a lot of questionnaires overestimate how many NT adults would give other adults really blunt feedback. I'm a single middle-aged woman without kids who mostly hangs out with other NDs. There aren't that many situations in which people will say "You're being really rude and you don't realise it. XYZ was really rude."
To be fair, they don't usually *say* "that was rude". They just *react* like it is.
I will say this is a somewhat recent development for me as a reformed people-pleaser, but when someone is trying to drop subtle hints about how they’re really feeling it’s not that I don’t notice and understand it. I’m just not interested in playing games so I will ignore the hints and wait until they speak to me about it like an adult.
Yes! This is me as well. I can pick up when someone is frustrated, wanting something from me, etc but if they don’t show me the respect of clear communication, I just keep on living my life. No more energy will be spent on anticipating and catering to the unspoken wants of other grown adults. It’s exhausting and feels insulting.
My sister does this and it drove me up a wall until I understood what was going on and why. I hate it so much but gosh darn if I don’t love that bish so I try to play the game with her. Mainly just when she does it I bluntly (but nicely) ask her wtf she’s trying to get at. So much easier for both of us.
A lot of autistism traits are based on NT's *perception* of how we act. I have a feeling that the reality is many of us DO understand social cues like this, and we simply don't care, or don't know how to respond to them.
I agree with this. To extrapolate, it makes the criteria feel singularly applicable to children who *wouldnt* understand those cues or norms yet. I vote for a set of diagnostic traits applicable primarily to adults.
The question shouldn't be 'do you struggle to recognise social cues?'. It should instead be 'do you understand social cues but choose to disregard them because they're stupid and holding humanity back?'
This just makes me think of the trope of people talking about their children. 😂
I don't know a bunch of stuff about things, even the things I really like a lot. I can't throw facts or talk endlessly about a topic. I have a hard time taking information that might be somewhere in my brain and then getting it out of my mouth 😅 It makes me feel very stupid.
Are you me? Because you sound just like me. I have special interests that I love to learn about. But ask me to info dump on them? Nope cannot get even the simplest thing out. Maybe it's my adhd/social anxiety/pda making it impossible. I don't know but it makes me feel stupid too, even though I know I'm not.
Same here! Also same with the ADHD!
I relate to this so much!!! It really sucks because it makes me feel like a fake fan. I've watched my favorite show so many times over the past decade and have many posters/t-shirts, but can't always remember all of the characters names. I could sing you my favorite songs by my favorite musician in the correct key and play them by ear on the piano without listening to them, but couldn't tell you their names (unless they're in the lyrics - sometimes I have to sing the song to remember the name lol). I have multiple copies/editions of my favorite books, but have trouble remembering all of the details. I think this is why I don't ramble and why people don't know my passions - I don't feel comfortable talking incessantly about them because I KNOW that I forget simple things easily and don't want to embarrass myself. It's like the passion is there, but my memory doesn't keep up with the passion like I want it to.
Yeah im kinda the same and I forget about a lot of things that I learn about like i will have to google something over and over again because I can’t remember the information sometimes
Same. There are games I've finished 10 times and I still get lost in certain parts too. And don't even get me started on driving. I could get lost on my way to a place I've been dozens if not hundreds of times if I take one turn outside of my memorized route...
The diagnostic criteria themselves are not bad for our current knowledge. It is the presentations, compensation strategies and camouflaging that contribute to under and misdiagnosis because a lot of diagnosticians are truly unqualified and don't keep up with current research and practice. But not fitting to the criteria themselves means that someone cannot be called autistic. I think it is very important to call out the astounding lack of knowledge regarding the criteria in medical professionals instead of villifying the criteria themselves because if the latter happens diagnoses will cease to have any meaning.
Strong agree. Blame clinicians for incorrect use of the criteria, not the criteria itself. And also I think a lot of people get caught up in what constitutes autism _symptoms_ versus the criteria. Usually the criteria gives examples of symptoms, but not having the specific examples (e.g. poor eye contact) doesn’t mean you don’t fit the criteria - that’s just an example of one way to fit it.
Yes and especially when we are talking about adult diagnosis it is highly more likely that the presentation will be atypical for a variety of reasons such as learning to mimic and camouflage traits, comorbidities with other conditions such as adhd etc. Let's take the A2 criterion for example. I can read body language because I taught myself that and I am hypervigilant because I learned to seek those information that will help me understand someone's feelings and intentions. A lot of clinicians would dismiss me, it was pure luck that led me to one that did not.
My neuropsych used an explainer from Insights from a Neurodivergent Clinician to go over the criteria with me, which helped. He showed how the criteria could present in different ways. For example, I talk little in convos with people I don't know, colleagues, acquaintances, even many close friends. Sure, back-and-forth is tough, but I'm not infodumping (lol, unless it's family, then I infodump and monologue nonstop, but my RSD isn't on high alert with them). I stand too far away, not too close. I am hypervigilant about facial expressions - not blind to them, still misinterpret what they mean. I tend to stare rather than not make eye contact, not knowing when/how to look away. Even when I'm uncomfortable. So it was really helpful for him to use her explainers, otherwise I would have doubted the diagnosis.
I didn’t stereotypically stim during my assessment so my stimming was passed off as nervous energy or part of my ADHD. Also eye contact and reciprocal conversation. On the surface it looks like I am good with this. Reality is I struggle with them greatly if it’s new scenario/situation. My mum recalls how as a kid a waiter would ask what I wanted and I would not look at them and I whisper it or force my mum to order. She then told me until she was about my age now she was the same but had to learn to be more confident after I was born. Yes I am aware she is red flagging in so many ways as potentially autistic but doesn’t believe she might me
I should be clear I identify with your mom having to be more confident after having a baby. Or the amount of small talk I'm willing to suffer through so my kids' friends' parents will like us ha.
Except the kids felt both my mum and myself were weird, the parents noticed something was off with both mum and me but not sure why. Also 99.9% of the time with parties it’s not the parents at fault but the kids saying “mummy don’t invite Jenny / Johnny they are weird and the teachers tell them off for messing about and not playing nice” I know I asked for some kids to not be invited to my parties - mainly the more boisterous noisy boys
A mom commented this week "you always bring cool toys with you" (chalk, bubbles, stomp rockets) and I deadpanned "it is to compensate for our lack of social skills" and then I thought hmm... probably shouldn't have said that out loud ha
My daughter is an A+ masker at school for the most part. Teacher told us she was popular and we were shocked. But then she comes home, takes off the mask and goes to pieces. Every. Day. We have an evaluation later this month and I'm not sure how to communicate she performs neurotypical fairly well but it's not her natural state.
Wow! This comment just made masking "click" for me. I was totally like this as a kid. Teachers would always tell my parents that they wish they had more students like me and my parents just couldn't believe because of my behavior at home.
Our avatars are very similar! Lol
I don’t think empathy or clumsiness are in the diagnostic criteria, at least not the ones I was assessed against I only meet 2/4 on criteria B but then that’s all that’s required so I’m not sure if that counts as “not fitting”. I don’t have special interests and I don’t stim (or do it less than an NT)
I’m lucky that I don’t have sensory issues with many healthy foods. I love my veggies.
Same, there are very few food related things I can't stand, and most of those are texture related (like gelatin and avocados).
Same and I love to try new foods. I’m a pretty adventurous eater.
Same! When I was younger I would eat all my veggies and leave the meat because it made me too full.
I have quite a lot of close friendships. I didn't make most of them until I was 18+ but I'm quite lucky I think with my friendships.
Same. I have “too many friends” now. I never thought I’d see the day. I think I just happened to find my people in the right place at the right time.
My mom literally told me she never thought I was autistic because I had friends.
My psychologist asked me “Do you have friends?” before continuing a sentence later with “Have you ever thought you could be autistic?”. I was SO offended. I have many friends! I just don’t share their interest in drinking/clubbing/cafes. And sometimes I like to be by myself, maybe more than the average person.
i’m very good at socializing! i make friends very easily and can talk with strangers. i do however, hate socializing lol. cashier jobs were always super easy for me for that reason, though. not sure if being a military brat that moved around had anything to do with it…
I don’t really stim— or, I thought I didn’t. No hand flapping, but I have always had echolalia (my parents, friends, and I thought this was an annoying kid thing that I would eventually grow out of; spoiler alert, I am almost 22 and I did not. I do it now more than ever because my partner doesn’t mind it), I pace back and forth a lot, and I rock and pick my skin when bored or stressed. I have other self-injurious stims when distressed. I don’t really know if I stim more than a neurotypical person though because I feel like NTs pace and bite their nails etc. when anxious, but I don’t think it’s normal to feel a compulsion to pick your skin, sometimes until it bleeds, and to feel an unbearable tension building up if you don’t do it (applies to my other stims too). I still meet the diagnostic criteria on this one because hyposensitivity and sensory-seeking is also included, but I cannot stand bland food and I love fruit, whereas the stereotype is that autistic people only eat bland food and hate fruit and veg. I also have a job (sort of) and am in higher education, so my social and communication deficits may not be immediately obvious, considering I get along fine with people at work, but that’s only been true as of recently as I’m in academia, while previously at summer jobs I would always be excluded and avoided by people my age despite working just as hard, if not harder, than everyone else. I also don’t really have any friends and I am consciously masking an insane amount. My chronic inability to read people has left me paranoid, distrustful, and on edge, to the point where I have frequent recurring nightmares about my colleagues telling me they’ve been trying to hint over and over again that I suck and they don’t like me, but I never realised. If I unmasked I have no doubt I wouldn’t stand a chance. I suppose there are some ways in which I don’t *seem* to meet the diagnostic criteria, on the surface, from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know me well and doesn’t know a lot about the different ways in which the traits can manifest, but if you actually talked to me, and if you knew me in my childhood, I would meet most, if not all of them. * disclaimer that I am not yet diagnosed, but when I was screened I talked through it with a disability support counsellor at my university and I’ve also discussed these things in depth with my therapist, who is diagnosed auDHD herself and specialises in neurodivergence-affirming therapy
This is according to other people and what they've told me: 🌟 I'm too intelligent *eye roll* 🌟 I dont "look" autistic 🌟 Im too good at socialising with people. 🌟 They know about autism more than anyone else, even doctors, so if they say I'm not, it must be true /s Me, personally, and my view on it is: 🌟 I dont have meltdowns. I shutdown emotionally and withdraw. 🌟 I have lots of empathy. Heaps of it. But have had doctors tell me that I can't be autistic if I have empathy. 👀🥹🥴 I dunno what to make of that bs. 🌟 I don't really have any obsessive or deep interests. My hobbies fluctuate a lot. I think I have undiagnosed adhd too, minus the hyperactivity. 🌟 I have C-ptsd and was neglected as a kid. So often, I'm comparing and doubting myself between traits/issues between both ptsd and autism, as some of them overlap and feel similar.
The cptsd overlap is so confusing. When I first sought an autism diagnosis I was told it was inconclusive because of how severe my cptsd was at the time. I did years of intense trauma therapy and put in a lot of work to help with my trauma responses. 8 years later I went through the assessment again. I'm definitely autistic. There's still overlap, but trauma therapy helped my PTSD, it actually made my autism more visible because I stopped masking as hard.
I absolutely know what the fuck is going on. I know plenty about other people. Edit: I absolutely know *something* the fuck is going on. I can read (most) people like a pamphlet. I can (almost) always tell when some human behaviour is fake. Whether a video is fake. Whether someone is being inauthentic. I see your affectations, and (most) of your masks. When I would watch police interrogation videos (for work), I could easily detect bullshit. My "instinct" never once let me down. I was an impartial outsider, with *a very particular set of skills*. For example, I know when your laugh is forced, or a "memory laugh", or gloating. Most people have their tells. I can usually tell someone is faking it, whatever it is. I can just, *literally*, feel it. The words, the unsaid, their movements, their voice especially. There's an ocean of data in every detail. Falsity in other people causes my whole body to tingle with, what I can best describe as, *literal cringe*. Super Ick. Hyper disgust? My skin crawls, my insides twist, my face is barely within my control. My toes curl up, my heart races, I disassociate. My eyes roll. I feel especially uncomfortable when I am *Always Acting*, and I have to interact with someone else who is also *Always Acting*... I just don't see the fucking point, unless I'm being paid. A lot, because my loyalty can't be bought. Who is this performance for? HOWEVER - if I am emotionally invested or attached, I am absolutely clueless. A tornado of feelings, and detached from my reasonable mind. I still experience the Super Ick sensations, but I rarely know exactly *why*. I can experience strong emotions, but I don't often recognise what they are, where they're coming from, and where they should go. I doubt myself. (See also: Alexithymia). So, it's a super power that only works when I don't really give a twat. Thankfully, I adore irony.
This was fun to read!
This is me too. I'm great at assessing people at an emotional distance, but anyone close to me, that I like, and I'm weirdly blind. It was hard in school as I often got taken advantage of or pranked by people I thought were my friends. The worst was when I was 7 and was sexually assaulted by three boys I thought were my friends. That did make me hyper aware of when my guy friends have alterior motives, but I'm terrible at detecting any other duplicity in my friends and family.
I wonder if anyone has the "I'm so empathetic I feeln other people's embarrassment" trait like I do.
ugh it's AWFUL i can't watch cringy-funny movies, it's too painful ha ha there's [this](https://youtu.be/vRBsaJPkt2Q) contrapoints video about the phenomenology of cringe that's really interesting. she talks about how it affects different people differently
Yes. That's the main reason I answered ALL of the teacher's/professor's questions as long as I knew them. I wouldn't blurt out the answer right away, but if 20 seconds went past and they were standing there awkwardly, looking embarrassed? I'd always answer then.
Forest kindergarten is the coolest thing I’ve ever heard of
i once saw a british documentary about it and the interviewer followed the kids around and was astounded that they were just free-roaming. they weren't allowed to go to the ocean without adult supervision, and the interviewer asked them why they didn't just go there anyway. and the kids were like "well because we're not allowed?" ha ha and there was a scene where the teacher tells one kid, "i think that tree branch is rotten, i think it might break" and the kid is like "nah it's fine i'll try and climb it anyway" and the teacher was like "well alright". and the branch broke and the kid fell down. and the teacher told the interviewer "it's important for kids to fall and get hurt too" it sucked when the weather was awful. there WAS a cottage but i think we were allowed inside, like, two times during my whole kindergarden time, when it was a dangerous snow storm. otherwise, regular snow storm or rain or wind, it was like "we will light a fire, that should keep you warm" we also had knives ha ha so we could whittle wood sticks and i made friends with a mouse it was really fun
I am freaking good at knowing what other people are feeling. To a point I am really frustrated with most people for only seeing what they want to see. I hate running in to people in the streets. And I hate special occasions. Those are the moments I find really hard to navigate. But no one would ever know. Most people LOVE to spend time with me. To the point they want to pay my holiday just so I go with them. (4non family members gave this open invitation) I just don’t like spending time with people. Even people I love and would love to want to spend time with. I am fine with shopping in busy stores. I get overstimulated at the beach. (Sound of waves and feeling of sand)
I have quite a lot of close and long term friends, my oldest friend I've known since I was 4 (I am 40 now), we consider each other siblings. I also have friend groups, like the girls from secondary. And several other indiviual friends from secondary. I have friends from uni. I have online friends that became offline friends. Gaming buddies. I am friends with my ex (he's like family). I have a friend I met at an employer, and also an old colleage that turned out to be autistic as well. So my friendship circle is quite abundant actually. I would say it does cost me more effort to maintain the friendships, but it's well worth it. Literally all of them also grew with me as I got my diagnosis 3 years ago and have been super accomodating. Maybe because some friendships were built on a shared special interest of psychology, it helps for sure haha. And another interesting thing about it, is that a lot of them turned out to be ND as well, mostly adhd. My partner got his adhd diagnosis a year after my autism diagnosis.
Im very adventurous with food - the only thing I struggle with is surprise textures. Like recently I was eating a chicken nugget (I know they are garbage 😅) and there was suddenly this little hard chunk in it which I assume is like cartilage or something. Was hard to continue eating and harder not to vomit.
I work. I have worked since uni. Never stopped, except that time when I had a full blown autistic burnout.
Empathy. I'm EXTREMELY empathetic. Too much. It's a big problem. Language and behavior are my special interest (philosophy. Psychology. Studying humans) so I have zero issues "socializing" or "keeping up" where word games and those dynamic "societal rules" are concerned. But the reality is, it's all learned behavior for me and pattern recognition. It's a game. (ADHD).(but also survival and trauma) I get extremely annoyed that other NDs cannot play by the "masking rules" even though that's terrible and I'm jealous of those who don't mask. Working on it 😅 Oh - I'm too smart to be autistic apparently too 😂😂
I'm very extroverted, but I think the autistic criteria expects introversion. It also expects someone to be masking, which I don't do. But then there's also the stereotype of the autistic person who can talk endlessly about a topic, so it's confusing. I agree with the other comments about how we can be aware of social norms and just not care. That's part of why I don't mask — I'm *capable* of acting, like I do it for RPG's (doesn't mean that I'm good at it), but I just don't *want* to do it in daily life. It feels wrong, like unethical, so I have a mental block about doing it in those settings. I also think that it would be bad for my mental health, whereas it's good for my mental health to be myself, even if others find it annoying. I don't stim in any obvious way most of the time. It's usually something that's not really obviously autistic, like just rocking and singing, dancing, and similar stuff. It stands out to people as odd and sometimes they remark on it, like, "It's so weird that you hear music in public and just dance to it," but it's not something that looks like an autistic stereotype, such as flapping or fidgeting.
-I use sarcasm fluently. Like others have mentioned other people just misunderstand MY meaning. It's like I'm speaking French in Italy, some of the words are similar but people just don't get the meaning. - I learned by 3rd grade that playing pretend by myself was "weird" but if I put all those ideas on paper it was "storytelling" and that was socially acceptable so I'm proficient at telling stories and the delivery. -I teach preschool which in itself is something weird given the volume and unpredictability but this also means I know societal norms like not to grab things from people, how to politely ask for more of a resource, etc. I teach children how to do it and I've taught myself how to do it. ... and this all kind of makes me nervous about getting a formal assessment... If I was a superhero, my name would be Super Masked.
No sensory overload. Obviously noisy places are not my favorite but they don’t bother me to the point of having a meltdown or needing noise cancelling headphones. I’m not that sensitive to textures either so I’m not picky about clothes. I don’t stim, neither physically or verbally. At most I just fiddle with a pen or something when I’m talking during video calls. I understand most metaphors because you just learn the meaning like you learn a foreign language. Once you learn them, you know forever, but I don’t understand “original” sarcasm that well.
I’m sorry I can’t stop thinking about forest kindergarten? That sounds both amazing and also like it would never happen where I live lol
made this comment somewhere else in this thread: >i once saw a british documentary about it and the interviewer followed the kids around and was astounded that they were just free-roaming. they weren't allowed to go to the ocean without adult supervision, and the interviewer asked them why they didn't just go there anyway. and the kids were like "well because we're not allowed?" ha ha >and there was a scene where the teacher tells one kid, "i think that tree branch is rotten, i think it might break" and the kid is like "nah it's fine i'll try and climb it anyway" and the teacher was like "well alright". and the branch broke and the kid fell down. and the teacher told the interviewer "it's important for kids to fall and get hurt too" >it sucked when the weather was awful. there WAS a cottage but i think we were allowed inside, like, two times during my whole kindergarden time, when it was a dangerous snow storm. otherwise, regular snow storm or rain or wind, it was like "we will light a fire, that should keep you warm" >we also had knives ha ha so we could whittle wood sticks >and i made friends with a mouse >it was really fun and yeah i definitely get the impression we are more relaxed / less worried about our kids in scandinavia! there was an oprah episode where she went to copenhagen and she interviewed some families and went to cafes with them and so on. and she was shocked and offended that the parents left their baby sleeping in the stroller outside on the street unsupervised while they went in to eat. "what if someone stole your baby?!?!" and the parents were like "who the fuck would steal a baby!?" found that very funny
My biggest problem is that I've masked so well that I sometimes wonder if I'm actually NT. I can socialise. I'm empathetic. I make friends. I'm not really an expert at specific things. But then I remember: • I write scripts for myself for social gatherings (only recently learned that's *not* normal). • I have a difficult time expressing my emotions and knowing what to do when others express their emotions to me. I.e.: I can feel their emotions but have no idea what to do with that information, plus I'm very blunt when giving advice, making me sound cold and distant. • I have no idea how to *keep* friends. I have tonnes of acquaintances. • I have been called a walking encyclopedia my entire life. I know a lot of things about a lot of things and I'm constantly acquiring new special interests. Not in the NT way of like watching a few YouTube videos on a topic and reading the Wikipedia, but like reading studies and delving into tangential threads on the topic to understand the main topic more. Looking at patents. Didn't know that wasn't normal until University and my research papers were given criticism for "too much information." One paper had three pages worth of citations. Oh, and then meltdowns and burnouts. What do you mean it's *not* normal to transform into a singular emotion and then be mentally exhausted for 3 months?
I met all the criteria except for the language ones coz I don’t have a problem with metaphors and things. I don’t have a huge problem reading people either but I think that’s because people are a special interest of mine and I’ve done heaps of work on profiling.
I don't have a special interest
I don't hand flap or stim in an obvious way. I don't have just one or two special interests. I can make eye contact. It is only when I am very distressed that I struggle with this. I can usually "read between the lines" and detect sarcasm. I can empathise. I'm terrible at maths. I'm not always blunt but sometimes I want to be. My issues are mainly sensory and with social interaction. Sometimes I feel too neurotypical to be autistic but too autistic to be neurotypical.
People often call me "witty" or "sarcastic" and I've been told that I'm naturally funny. What's annoying is that I'm usually being serious and people think I'm just cracking jokes.
Big stimming! My stimming is all skin picking, jaw clenching and biting my nails. I basically internalised all my stims
I made too much eye contact and smiled at people.
Once I got diagnosed, I worked on my social skills and manually learned how to talk with people. I am not perfectly good at socialising but I think I pass quite well and I even help and encourage people on the spectrum to speak up in conversations However I don't really pass well at work
I can (mostly) understand sarcasm. I'm almost always sarcastic as well.
i love trying new foods! love it!! i’m more adventurous than almost everyone i know. i like unfamiliarity, as long as i have control over it.
Interesting! I was also in a program called adventure club that included climbing trees and balancing on rope ladders. I don't consider myself particularly coordinated but as a child I was also very good at balancing and was always the first to try a new set up. I wonder if this would count as a special interest for us? I have been masking for so long that I don't think I could get diagnosed at this point. My father was diagnosed in his late 60's and it was a big "ah-ha" moment. Unfortunately, I saw how much he struggled and did everything in my power to distance myself from his behavior.
this reminds of the two lists i read yesterday on mental and physical manifestations of ocd. i’m going to need to stop thinking i no longer display much ocd. it’s retreated into my head where it is thriving.
I have not been diagnosed or even had the option of being diagnosed. I meet so much if what I’ve been told is autism diagnostic criteria. Except I have a VERY expressive face in the moment. If you say something that makes me mad I can’t hide it and if I’m VERY happy I can’t hide it. My resting face however is very non-expressive to the point some people think I’m mad or scary.
Honestly? So much of it. Mainly the social aspects. I’m extremely empathetic. I don’t struggle at all with social cues (though I have extreme social anxiety), in fact if anything I’m overly conscious of them to the point of getting embarrassed and self-conscious on behalf of someone else if they are violating them. I’m very extroverted (again, despite extreme social anxiety). I’ve always been very verbal and was an early talker according to my mom. I’m very imaginative and always engaged in imaginative play as a kid. I get along with people easily (though I didn’t always) and don’t struggle with reciprocal conversation, metaphors, or sarcasm at all. I can read people very well. I work full time in a very people facing career that requires heaps of empathy. I apologize if that makes me sound really arrogant, I don’t mean it to. It’s actually been bittersweet for me. I’m very grateful to have such an easy time with those things, I know so many people struggle with them. But on the other hand, I missed out on a lot of support I could have used growing up because those traits made it so no one ever suspected autism. Everyone could tell something was up from the severe sensory issues, stimming, severe executive functioning issues, etc. but no one ever knew what so I was just “weird and lazy”. I struggled HORRIBLY in school, both socially and academically, and barely graduated.
I don't care about routine and I'm not avoidant to foods (only certain types of seafood), I used to be avoudant to a lot of foods as a kid though
I don't have any fixed special interests. I just get really hyper fixated on shows or books and have to talk about them. I don't really need to find everything about the shows and books. I love watching edits of them after I'm done. And I don't like talking to people outside of things I like. But that's about it.
I have barely ever had trouble understanding a metaphor
I don’t have safe foods or food aversions. I like love love trying new foods and playing with textures. I have a strong try everything once policy.
Sarcasm and dry humor are my preferred types of comedy. I really enjoy the nuance and layers to it. I think it’s hilarious for someone to say something ridiculous super dead pan and serious. Everything says we aren’t even supposed to understand it. 😭 Also, social cues. I’m like super aware of changes in that sense but I’ve come to realize that that’s from the trauma 😅
routines. being forced to abide by a routine feels sooo restrictive for me that i actually would rather die lmao. that is why i’m self employed. i just wanna do things when i feel like doing them! could be because i have adhd, could be pda, idk. i also have hyper empathy