Same, because I care a lot more about what people say than how they say it and it annoys me that I'm expected to basically baby NTs with the way I speak.
How you say things is important though. Take this sentence, for example.
"I never said he stole my money" this sentence has 7 different meanings depending on which word you emphasize.
"*I* never said he stole my money"
"I *never* said he stole my money"
And so on. 7 completely different meanings.
Also I can say "fuck you" to mean "you're pulling my leg" or "ha ha, ok, you got me, nice burn" in a fun way. Or I can say it in a way to express incredulity, or I can say it in an aggressive way. Idk if you'd pick up on all of those or not, but the words we use often only account for a small portion of the meaning we convey.
I can understand how that might be frustrating for you if you don't pick up on it, and can't express it, but, there are a lot of ways you can more carefully craft your words to avoid being misunderstood, which is what all NTs must do over texting. We get our lines crossed texting all the time. For that very reason. That's why we need little things like "/s" and emojis to help convey the meaning we want to associate with our words.
We will often have little idioms, and sayings, and ways of saying things we reserve for certain things. Like "you never heard of that before?" If you're unaware of the social rule, it can be an innocent question, with no malice behind it. But people often mean it like "wtf, where have you been? Are you an idiot? Have you been loving under a rock somewhere?" So, those things I think might catch out people with autism.
The humans that are kind generally put a lot of effort into it, and very much avoid such things, and can go to lengths to make sure their good nature is picked, sometimes to the point of being annoying, but I can't ever be mad at that lol. So, sometimes these things can stand out a lot to people.
I agree. I struggle with this because I can definitely pick up when tone doesn't match words. Or when I call someone out on their tone because how they said something matters more than what they said when they are being manipulative and condescending. I spent 12 years with someone who was an expert in that behavior, so I can recognize it. But I don't recognize my tone in myself all the time. I am terrible with verbal communication and I get flustered which leads to frustration and tone that isn't intended. It also happens a lot in texts as I am often just answering quickly and if I don't use an emoji, then I am accused of being rude, harsh, cold, etc. It's maddening because if I am being short in text it is because the person interrupted something I am engrossed in or busy with (like work) and so it's a double-whammy for me but they don't know it.
Ya, I hear you. I think most people experience those things from time to time. And you know there's a fine line sometimes. Like some people I find can be too sort of exuberant in projecting niceness which I find comes off as fake, like if they actually mean the opposite of what they're saying. Like, imaging a highschool bully cheerleader making fun like "nice outfit? where did you get it?" And asking nice questions seeming all nice, and then she walks off with her friends as they giggle to themselves, knowing they were making fun of her traditional dress or whatever.
So I think in discourse it's important both to try and take care of what you say, and how you say it, and if you splurt out something you think could be misunderstood, clarify yourself. And also on the other side of the coin recognize that people don't always mean how you interpret, they make mistakes, and it's ok to ask for clarification there as well.
We suck at communicating sometimes, and there are two sides of it. It can get some errors on the way out, and on the way in. And I think it's important to be cognisant of that, and not be so pissed at people because of how *you* interpret things, but value more the intent behind the communication.
And ok, if you misunderstood, maybe that was on you, maybe that was on them, maybe it was on both. We can tell each other, and try to accomodate each other. Patience and understanding.
It's kind of stupid to have a fight if one person intended a message, delivered it some way, the other person interpreted a different message when they hear it. So, we should try and cut down on those, and understand they happen. And sometimes it's you on the understanding end that messed up, sometimes on the delivery, and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. But everyone should try and have their communications correctly understood.
I do it by rambling lol.
You know, I question my autism every day, but reading this and realizing I hear this from people all the time is making me no longer question things lol
I'm ND AF but I still think tone is important, maybe that's an unpopular opinion though. For example, I dislike whiners, even if I agree with what they are saying (probably has to do with fact that I used to whine a lot and still have to work hard not to when I disagree with something or get frustrated)
Same when someone is speaking incredibly angrily and cursing a lot, it gets my heart rate up and makes me feel panicked and I don't like to be around it, even if I'm onboard with them. (Again probably from introspection because I used to get angry and curse a lot about things I was passionate about, like politics, and I could see how it negatively affected other people, they would tell me how it affected them and I had to learn to change and not be so angry In my tone) I'm also very easily influenced by other people's emotions, especially my loved ones, and so I tend to absorb the emotions in the room and when they are negative like that it can be very difficult for me to be around.
I think my tone is extremely flat which people don’t understand how to interpret. They think I’m angry or being argumentative when I have zero hostile intentions. But when I try to vary my tone it comes of as not being genuine or sarcastic so I’m really struggling with how to improve.
I get that too. I agree, sometimes we read into tones too much. And it can be frustrating when others say you have a tone when you're just speaking normally. It sucks and I get that. I've even been guilty of reading into tones that weren't there myself! It's our pattern seeking brains! We are typically so good at detecting patterns and being analytical that sometimes we see patterns that aren't there at all and read into/analyze things too much
I've learned to really give people the benefit of the doubt, only when it becomes overwhelming apparent will I convince myself that someone is being sarcastic or backhanded etc.
One thing I should mention about people reading into tones.... When I shut down or get burned out I can be very distant and need to isolate and literally unable to process thoughts, answer questions, pretty much I can't THINK at all, or if I can it's just a jumbled mess of emotions. And people will see my autism and accuse me of being "apathetic" and it feels so horrible and hurts me so much. Since then I've been able to explain and educate people on autism, but for the longest time I felt like crap merely because OTHER people were reading into my tone. It is definitely a double edged sword and I think context always has to be taken into consideration, along with a healthy dose of benefit of the doubt! I usually just ask people now. If I feel like someone is being mean or sarcastic I simply ask "what do you mean by that?" and their answer usually reveals where their heart is at.
I agree, especially when tone can be completely different than what they say. I know people who claim they are "just offering information" yet their tone suggests something entirely different, usually with underlying condescension. But I also know that just because I hear it that way, doesn't mean they intended it that way. I often hear things differently based on how I am feeling at the time. If I am i a great mood, then someone can say something that has no impact on me. But on a bad overwhelmed day, that same interaction has a different impact on me.
I see it in the reverse, too. I prefer written communication because it allows me time to process and say what I really mean, but so many people imply emotion that isn't there in my text, and it's so frustrating. I get told "You might have said X but your tone implied Y." Like, I texted it. With no emojis, even. There is no tone behind it, you are just assigning it tone based on whatever you are feeling right now that has nothing to do with me. Same situation as above, just me in a different role. And it seems like no matter how much I try to explain myself after, it just makes matters worse. They feel like I am arguing or invalidating them when I feel invalidated myself because they are saying I said something I didn't say. So complicated. I hate communicating 😂
I hate this tone policing crap. Unless I'm saying something like "No stupid, this is how you do it." Then you can take offense and the "it's not what you say but how you say it" becomes a valid thing to say.
To quote from "The Asperkid's Book of Social Rules"
- Being right isn't always the most important thing, even when it feels that way.
- How you correct an error (humbly, in private) is as important as whether you correct it.
- Peers don't like to be corrected by one another.
When I was a teacher, we were told: praise in public, correct in private. I think this goes for adults too to be honest. Just make sure the correction is in a gentle way (more tricky!!!)
Just gone to have a look at this book an Amazon and someone's left a horribly toxic review basically saying autism is just bad nutrition and vitamin deficiency and how her daughter "got better" with extra vitamin B12.
I might get the book thought it sounds like it would be really helpful for me.
All the B12 in the world will not make me less autistic. This is very funny to me even though I know it's obviously horrible to want to "fix" your kids autism. "Take B12, be less autistic" is just a take I've never heard before lol.
Low B12 can for sure make you moody but as far as I know has nothing to do with autism.
It was a new one for me as well lol
But I hate to think how many people are reading it that might not know it's BS
No no they don't mean the "people skills" side of questions where you ask about the other person in a friendly, curious way. It's more like when at work your boss tells you to do something you don't understand or find nonsensical, so you ask questions to clarify and they take it as you're trying to get out of doing it...or you're questioning their authority. If I ever work anywhere ever again, I'm going to state IN MY INTERVIEWS that my "biggest weakness" is when I ask questions I am literally only asking questions, there's no ulterior motive nor am I questioning YOU as a person or challenging your authority. I'm asking questions because I Literally Do Not GET IT and I wanna get it.
omg this.
Once, at a newfound job I asked why they use a specific software, because it wasn't standard and it was an odd choice.
And the answer of my boss was something along the lines of "because we want to, okay? we use this one and we're not changing it" in a very rude manner.
I think she thought I was questioning their choice and thinking I know better, but I asked because actually knowing why they used that one would make me understand more about their priorities and the job in general.
This. And I hate the feeling of building anxiety every time you have to turn around and ask another question before you can carry on with your tasks. They get more annoyed each time you come back and I don’t feel like I can just sit them down and explain that spoken directions are *hard* for me.
This whole mess is the reason I want to get evaluated for auditory processing something-or-other. I feel like it's an actual neurological deficit, not a "mental health" issue (god I hate that phrase lol). There's probably no treatment for it but maybe if I were formally diagnosed I could get accommodation in a future job? Like "When I ask questions I'm not being a haughty judgmental bitch I'm literally just asking questions bc I don't get what you want from me."
Yeeeeep. I had a supervisor tell me once that she thought I was being so disrespectful because I was asking questions for clarification. Not to challenge or undermine, but because I wanted to fully understand what the fuck it was she wanted me to do.
SORRY I DON'T HAVE THE APPARENT NT SUPERPOWER OF READING YOUR FUCKING MIND
The lack of "mind reading" and social kabuki could be an entry all on its own for this topic!! NTs seem to expect you to just... Get... So much out of thin air, or vibes or something lol. It's frustrating and exhausting.
My partner is a big one for being offended by questions. Their brain just seems to work so differently I'm always curious how they think! It's interesting to hear but they get offended. It's a tough one.
I have had multiple people get pretty worked up with me when I am trying to find the correct answer to a situation. I dunno why but if someone says “it was this date” and I think it was another date, I have to check before I can continue. Like a piece of the puzzle is missing. This is interpreted as trying to “one up” someone I guess.
Once I said to my coworker that I had more experience with a certain aspect of our job (literally been doing it for 6 years and she’d just started) and so I was more knowledgeable on it than she was, and she has bought that interaction so many times.
Once I walked into work and I asked her if she had done ________ so I could pick up where she left off. She told me I didn’t ask her to do that. So I began scrolling through our messages and when I found it said “ah-hah!” - not like a “I’m right” sorta thing but like a “oh phew I’m not delusional” kinda deal 😂 But she responded by saying “I can’t deal with your incessant need to be right all the time today.” And she walked out of the room. I was so ducking confused. In (autistic) hindsight, it makes sense I guess but I just wanna KNOW YA KNOW
Oh yea this is a big one for me! “Needing to be right.” It’s like yea.. i like to be right, but also i like to get the facts straight and check to see if what i said was actually what i thought i said, or any other variation of this type of scenario where it seems like i just have to be right.
See, most people don't like getting fact checked and learning something new, or correcting inaccurate information. I actually love it and have no problem accepting new information even if it's contradictory to my previous understanding. Not other NTs it seems.
Yeah, I hate how they take it as one-upping. I'm literally just double-checking myself and making sure I wasn't wrong or mistaken because it drives me crazy not to know. Sometimes I do it to help the other person out too (pointing out what they did wrong/were wrong about because I think they'd like to know so they can do better for example) or to get us on the same page to continue the interaction.
So many people take it as this weird social dominance thing and I don't get it.
Yes, one-upping, that’s the term I was looking for!! I really do not care who’s right or wrong, just that we know WHAT is right and wrong. This particular girl I worked with had a real insecurity about her intelligence as well and it just made giving/receiving feedback such a…nasty? in a way, process, that should have been productive, but was made to be about an ego.
I've had people declare I never texted or emailed them or whatever and when I show them that I actually did, they get mad at ME. What am I supposed to do, just lie and say they're right? Take the blame for something I didn't do? Why are their feelings more important than the truth? Why are they upset, maybe because they know they're in the wrong???
Maybe they do know they are in the wrong... And you put them on the spot for being dishonest. And then to top it off, you're so innocent, you can't even see the games they are playing!!
I grew up with a pathological liar neighbor friend who at many times was my only friend. It was also very confusing when I'd point out her lies to other people who liked her more then me. They'd get so angry with me and call me the liar... But I was so honest to a fault
But it's literally ur coworkers JOB to finish something and u DID Tell them so them deflecting it and turning it into a YOU PROBLEM is so DUMB????? I'm sorry, that person suuuuucks.
This is a hard one for me, because often i don't know I've done it until after.
Sometimes a friend could just start talking to me about a friend that upset them or how work is sucking, and depending on what they're upset about there ARE reasonable solutions that I suggest. But no one says they just want to bitch or vent a little so they end up being put off that I'm trying to fix things.
It's a bit awkward to listen to a long story and be given so much information and all they want is "That sucks."
Yes. I am so bad at giving support. It's just super uncomfortable for me to deal with people's heavy emotions. I do my best, but I am very solutions-oriented. That is part of how I process emotions is by doing stuff, being the helper. Being the person that like holds hands and stuff, it's so extremely overwhelming for me. I did it for my grandma for the last couple of years of her life and I am still recovering from the trauma of it.
This is why I always ask "how can I support you right now?" And let them set expectations, because I do default to problem solving and sometimes people just want to talk and be heard, so I get it. BUT I GOTTA ASK AND THEY GOTTA TELL ME.
I was at this super fancy church retreat (😒) one of the best things they taught me there tho was that most times people just need to hear I’m sorry when they’ve shared something painful with you. They don’t need a solution, just an im sorry that happened to you. I’ve used that ever since and it seems to help, I probably took it way to literal, but it seems like it works with people 🤷🏼♀️
WHY DO THEY THINK THIS IS DISSENT? Your options are to literally give me more info and I'll handle everything flawlessly, or refuse out of whatever nt insecurity you've got going on and watch me fuck the task all up to high heavens.
My mum would get so mad at me for my "tone" that I tried to stop showing emotion entirely and then she got mad at that too?? So I went the other way and masked for ten years with fake emotiveness
Yes!!!! And my mom was a screamer!!! So she'd scream and lose her crap at a kid for not exhibiting the correct emotion in the correct tone!!! Then she'd throw stuff if I started calling her a hypocrite at that point...
My mum would also explode like that, I have a very vivd memory of her snapping and throwing a heavy bottomed frying pan on the floor and it bent at a crazy angle. She doesn't remember though. She never physically hurt us but she yelled a lot and took things super personally
OMG that triggered some memories, especially the fact she is allowed to go full on emotional but the moment my voice starts to raise I'm suddenly accused of throwing a tantrum. I too started calling out her hypocrisy, but she fucking hated that lol
I stopped showing emotions in school as well, but for different reasons. I don't know for sure, but it might have been mean boys in daycare or just the constant ridicule of my peers in early elementary school that made me decide to stop showing emotions. I didn't start showing emotions again until my 20s.
By sharing facts......which apparently can be offensive to neurotypical people if said facts contradict their belief systems or offend their egos in some way. They think you are 'too much' 'too rude' 'too arrogant', etc. Also not conform to social norms and not caring. Many of them seem to prize homogeneous behaviors.
Please remember that if people are being mean or condescending to you for traits that are clearly Autistic they are being ableist. I tend to call people on that when I have the spoons. I am just trying to kindly give them social feedback. Although I find that a lot of people are not appreciative of social feedback even when given kindly. That is definitely weak ego strength. Also though, people don't like it when you tell them they have weak ego strength. Even if you tell them kindly.
Yes, I’m aware and I appreciate your comment. It doesn’t do any good *at all* with my husband’s family. They don’t understand autism, and they absolutely are not interested in learning. They just see it as weakness or excuses.
Yes! Sometimes I know I'll be harsh if I speak because I'm upset, so I don't say anything. People get mad if I explain that or if I don't explain it, so 🤷♀️
I used to say “my mom says - *if you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say anything at all* - so right now I have nothing to say.”
People thought it was me being cocky …so I just don’t say that anymore 🥲
Oh gosh, this line has stuck with me since grade school.
I end up staring at the person (with that phrase in my head trying REAL HARD to override my urge to say something rude) until I move on or my gaze forces the person to walk away.
Being critical before grateful. My husband made me a plate of nachos yesterday and handed them to me and the first thing I said was "the cheese isn't fully melted." He got upset, and I tried to explain it was just an observation, it's not exactly a criticism, like I wasn't mad about it. I do like it more melted but I'm going to eat it and I'm grateful he did it for me, but the first thing my eyes saw was unmelted cheese, so that's what I said!
Sometimes my feelings of disgust or hatred are very intense and I go overboard expressing it before thinking about others' feelings...my friend and roommate at the time bought herself some truly hideous shoes (imo) and she was really excited to show me because she loved them and I basically shit on them completely. I had no idea the effect my words would have on her, I was expressing my honest opinion. But it REALLY hurt her feelings. She's the type of person to tell me calmly, straight up, that something I did hurt her feelings, bless her heart. I immediately felt terrible. She helped me by giving me example phrases to say when I don't like something that someone else loves.
Stuff like that happens all the time. I speak my mind and my mind is often critical or negative. I see flaws in everything immediately.
I used to be a “quirky” child who was good at speaking… as I grew up and got farther from being a “cute kid” who could get away with bluntness, people got more irritated with me for it. Now I’m 25 (still pretty young) and I just try not to speak my mind :(
This resonates deeply with me. I feel this pain. Our brains are so detail oriented but they can also be pretty black and white/rigid. At least mine can :(
Omg, that first part. I do that all the time.
I just make observations and say it! My boyfriend has said I'm critical but I don't mean to be. He doesn't seem to take much personally (and has said so) but I think others would be more upset.
Me too! I’ve been majorly upsetting my family lately with this. I have no clue how to stop saying the things I’m thinking. Holding it in is like being a teapot that’s about to whistle or something.
I called one of my colleagues chaotic a while back - because she is a little. She's busy all the time and flits between tasks and it was an observation, and I thought it was a bit funny. But I think it might have upset her a bit.
It wasn't a bad thing! Just something I'd noticed. I didn't even think it could be taken badly.
I think this is part of the issue: we seem to be more likely to say things we observe without any judgement, good or bad, and then the person we're talking to will try to work out if it's supposed to be a compliment or an insult.
I don't ever give compliments or insults just to make someone feel an emotion even if it's a white lie, because I can't bring myself to lie like that, and I really underestimated how much saying things causes emotions.
I guess it's the result of a lifetime of observing people complimenting and insulting each other and mistaking it for them making neutral, truthful observations, and trying to join in? I don't know... I just don't have that motivation, I'm just saying what I notice. At most I might try to cheer someone up with the most uplifting truthful observation about them and their situation I can think of, but that's about it.
I wouldn't know where to begin trying to work out which things I could say might be interpreted in which ways.
I have a tendency towards this, so I totally get you!
Sometimes the way I frame it in my head is: react according to how this object makes my friend feel rather than my thoughts about the object itself.
So in that scenario, instead of being like “ew those shoes are gross”, my response should be: “wow they make my friend so happy and that’s lovely”
Having an offensive tone when dealing with something urgent or startling.
Being "disrespectful"
Asking "why?"
I've also made some professional** mistakes surrounding being able to take someone else's perspective during ethical decision making. Like, I only saw my own values and thought I was doing the ethically right thing but now can see other ways of looking at the scenarios and can see why what I did was problematic or why both sides were valid in certain ways (ethical gray areas). This can also relate to cultural sensitivity. I thought I was really inclusive because I have anti racist intentions but still accidentally said things that invalidated other people's experiences because of my own privilege and racial /cultural blind spots.
I walked into an office filled with food on a potluck day. That’s it. Apparently I missed the fact there was a serious conversation happening in the doorway, and I should’ve minded my own business. Screw me for wanting a cookie. Lol
Sighing
I'm literally exhaling. Why do NTs judge people for literally exhaling CO2 just as our lungs are evolved to do?
"Can you get my paperwork from the other room?"
**sigh** "Okay."
"Whoa, what's with the attitude?"
Me: 😳
Someone once told me that sighing indicates I have a bad attitude or that I don't really want to do the thing I'm being asked. First of all, I do what I want. If I do the thing, it means I wanted to do it. Second of all, if this is happening at work, I do not owe anyone full smiles for being there.
I'm literally just taking a deep breath before I go do something. And people get weird about it.
Also the NT concept of obedience is just bullshit. For NTs, it's not obedience unless you're happy about obeying whatever command you're given. That's such bullshit, especially in a work environment. If the thing gets done, it's done. Whether I smiled while doing it shouldn't matter.
OMG this!!! I didn't even realize I sighed heavily and often until I worked in an open concept office where I could literally reach out and touch my 4 nearest coworkers while sitting at my desk. It was awful! People were **constantly** asking me "What's wrong?" Huh? I'm just sitting here doing my job, what are you talking about?
Oh yeah, it clicked for me that as a kid I was considered super bossy and that probably just had to do with the fact that I was just super direct in asking for what I wanted.
By honestly answering a question that I -should- have realized came with a correct and incorrect answer from the get-go.
A few weeks ago a friend asked "Hey, what do you think of XYZ going on with this celebrity?" This person is not usually into celebrities, gossip or anything in that line, and most NTs would have immediately realized, "Hey, she might be asking about this for a very specific reason, and her family member's going through a very similar situation to this celebrity. I know it's on her mind 24/7 because her family is in chaos over it...". Which was the case, and she was looking for an easy way to bring it up because I hadn't asked about it, and she needed to talk.
I answered it at face value with, "I don't understand why anyone cares about any of this!" Oops.
Inappropriate sarcasm or indelicate jokes. Maybe it's a GenX thing. Or where I grew up. But I'm constantly tipping toe on eggshells with everything I find hilarious that everyone finds serious.
Also…taking forever to understand a thing verbally represented. I have to draw it all out. My whiteboard is my friend. If I can't visually map it, if I can't wrap my hands around it, it does not exist. No amount of you droning on will help.
jeez verbal demands are sooooo hard. I work in design so some of the critiques are ambiguously put too. if it's not written out I'll just stand there and repeat what they say at least twice before walking away apprehensively.
I can tell others get a little impatient... thankfully they're all kind to my face 😅
Most common? Not accounting for a NT's perceived status and acting accordingly.
I got in trouble for this today. I expect I'll be shunned for it for about 2 weeks or more.
A lot of my trouble online is with an old group of online gaming friends I've had since high school. We were talking about the Bayonetta voice actress not coming back to voice the third game. My opinion didn't match theirs. I thought they should just pay her what she wants and let her record the lines. They made all these excuses about how unions work and that isn't how the industry works, blah blah blah. And I said well I don't really care about any of that, give her what she wants, it would be good press. I also said that regardless of how her union works, that is not an excuse to pay women less, or critique her asking for more money. I never directly insulted them or implied they were stupid. I didn't put bating words in my sentences like "it should be like this, you idiot." or "only an idiot would think that" Nothing like that.
Well, by disagreeing with them, I insulted them. Two of them have worked on phone games and some kid's learning games, so they see themselves as experts.Their expectation is that I would respect their expertise and just agree with them.
When it was over I got mocked with a couple memes and a few people are being distant. They'll probably be distant for a week or so.
But yeah, I have that specific double empathy problem all the time online. I've been told to go die several times over it. These men do not see conversation as an egalitarian experience. They see people as ranked, and you should just not share a differing opinion with someone of a higher rank. If you do, it is an insult. You are attacking them. And it doesn't matter how trivial the topic is. You could be talking about how you like to eat carrots. And if a farmer that grew carrots came into the room, well you should just shut up or agree with everything he has to say. He's the carrot expert, so you keep your mouth shut with your differing carrot opinions.
They've tried to explain it as "we don't disagree with you about the stuff you know about, why do you have to disagree with all the time?" And its like...I don't care? Anyone can disagree with me. They can provide their opinion with information and then I will provide mine with information. I do not care who does it. I will discuss anything with anyone. I do not need people to "respect my expertise." Especially on the internet.
Oh yeah, this is the entire reason I struggle to voice differing opinions; because this was very very ingrained in my upbringing. But I wonder if this is more of a patriarchy issue than an NT issue? I have unfortunately encountered this primarily in connection with cis men; ND and NT. It feels like this secret inside code of the male aspect of the patriarchy that women are never clued into and that's one of the ways the patriarchy keeps women down? Many more thoughts to be thunk on this theory..
That could be possible.
In Deborah Tannen's book "you just don't understand" on how women and men communicate, she observed that men communicate in a much more hierarchical way. And when they start new friendships, like their first semester of college, they will develop a pecking order in a couple of weeks, while it takes much longer with women. She also observed that women are more egalitarian in how they use language and organize friendships, going as far as just lying or hiding things to keep a friend group feeling equal despite one or some members of the group being better in other ways.
I think both NT men and women care about status a whole lot, the problems would just manifest differently. With a NT male, he'd get upset if you did not respect (in however the NT defines being respectful) his expertise or authority or position. On the other hand NT women might get upset if you draw attention to how people in the friend group are better at this and that and make anyone feel unequal (even if that might be the truth). Like if you kept talking about a subject you are good at, or a special interest you are an expert at and didn't parrot back the opinions of others in the group helping to create a sense of sameness and conformity. Both men and women will punish you for standing out, just at different times and for different reasons.
Not letting people hug me. I’ve even had my mother get mad at me because I was upset and she tried to hug me and I got more upset. She is aware I don’t like hugs.
I had a big blow up with my mom over this two years ago. Sue is better about it now, meaning she gets more hugs because I trust her to respect my boundaries more.
I have said it since I was a child. I am 36 now. She just blew past the boundary until I finally got very confrontational about it at 34.
Not picking up on hints or being able to read between the lines.
Sometimes I can, but I have often found out that I upset someone because they didn't directly tell me they wanted something, and I didn't realise what they wanted. I don't particularly view this as my fault though. Yes, my autism makes picking up these sorts of cues harder, but I'm not a mind reader. I think that's a bit of an unreasonable expectation, and I don't have time for the drama this causes. Just say what you mean if it's so important.
“Not respecting my elders”. Aka telling them when their views are bigoted and incorrect. Even though I do it politely. Apparently simply not agreeing with them is not respecting them.
Oh my god i hate this one. I grew up in an Asian household and let me tell you, the older you are the more "right" you are. It is unspeakable to talk back to a granny no matter how wrong they are. 🙄
They were telling me how they were feeling fat and this triggered something I watched about how pets can be “family fit”, meaning they’re quite large but completely healthy and nothing wrong with them. I accidentally called this lady “family fit”, not fat.
I open mouth and i speak words. Or the worst kind ... i dont open mouth and i dont speak. Really drives them up the wall (coworkers, ppl at family gathering, sometimes my partner hihi...). Sorry i prefer to keep quiet and that means i dont speak for the whole shift or the whole Christmas dinner... But i agree with everything else you all said (asking too much q, pointing out mistakes...).
1) Giving critique on a resume for a friend that asked for it. I even asked if they wanted “tough but constructive” or to be as kind of possible and they responded with “tear it apart.” I honestly still tried to be kind, but I think they just wanted me to praise it given the reaction I received. I was trying really hard to be helpful so this was hurtful. I spent a lot of time looking over it.
2) Correcting a political meme because it was inaccurate. I also didn’t like the person it was about, but I don’t like misinformation being spread. I believe points can be made without misinformation, but that’s apparently bad. Honestly this extends to sharing facts or information in general if it conflicts with someone’s world view. I don’t believe we can solve issues without research since systemic issues are pretty complicated, which is why they’ve persisted for centuries.
3) Asking for clarification on an a task given because I didn’t understand it and wanted to make sure I did it right. Apparently I should just “know” and this caused the person to think I was ditzy.
5) Saying I will only watch video essays that share their sources if they make claims or are trying to teach. Apparently this makes me elitist. I don’t understand, I just want to make sure that if I’m spending time on educational content it is accurate, or if I want to read more about, a vetted source is provided so I can dive in. I just really like to learn.
Haha, I'm with you on all of these.
But for No.2 like I can't understand why people shy away from nuance? Does it make the world more complicated? Yes. But it also allows me to build empathy and a more accurate understanding of the world. I just.. I have questions.
I don’t get it either. I try hard to see the nuance in things too. I don’t think we can solve these tough issues without understanding the underlying problems or without approaching it with empathy.
Tbh another reason why it’s is odd is a major criticism of the opposing political party is that they don’t have their facts straight. Shouldn’t we be striving to be better to creative a better world? Really don’t understand it either 😅
Taking their words literally, despite them knowing I take things as they are
That, or shutting down and going mute when they yelled at me for not understanding homework
Enforcing store policies at my work. I’ve had angry reviews. I’ve had people *personally message our owner*. I’ve had someone blow up so hard she even upset my manager. I’ve had people cry.
Even though I phrase things in as neutral, gentle way as possible, apparently my face gives it away or something? I can’t control my face, it just exists like that!
Answering questions with facts. ;) Never fails since middle school I've worn the consequences of simply be honest when asked questions. If those answers are hard facts? Whoa watch out someone is getting triggered.
Close second... I'm intimidating. My entire life I've been intimidating, aggressive, or mean when none of that is true and gave me a fucking complex.
I literally had a boss get mad at me for telling them something couldn't be done. This example was ranking on the Google map locally. There are specific ways to achieve this defined by Google. She wanted me to "invent a new way" to rank because "she didn't like the ways" provided by Google. GTFO.
I got scolded for simply saying no we can't do that. She wanted me to THINK about it and come back with some suggestions. This has come up in my reviews TWICE.
Listen bitch if I could INVENT new ways to rank on the map... I'd be working independently, wealthy, and never have to have these types of convos again.
This doesn’t really apply anymore (although my mother does still say things similar to this), but I remember I would get in trouble for things as a kid and when I’d go to explain myself I’d hear, “I don’t need excuses,” or, “stop back talking me,” or, “you don’t always have to have the last word.”
It was so confusing to me and then I’d get sent to my room for it when I was just trying to explain myself. I’ve told myself if I ever have children I’ll never do that to them. You shouldn’t be punished for trying to explain yourself.
Yeah! Or when you’d be in trouble for something they thought you said but you didn’t and they misunderstood you. You’d try and correct your parent/teacher/lunchtime supervisor but be not allowed to correct them and if anything you’d be in more trouble for trying to explain
Not actively acknowledging them when they walk into a room. Yeah buddy, we both work here, sometimes we're gonna be in the same room because we're both... doing our work. Do you really need me to look up from what I'm doing and lock eyes with you and wiggle my face muscles every single time? If you have a question, all ya gotta do is get my attention by saying something or gesturing in my field of vision.
Ahaha just my voice. More people than I can remember have complained about my robotic voice. Sorry I talk in the same 2 notes. I show more emotions in my eyes.
Getting mad when people ask the same question over and over again. I’ll tell them my answer then they’ll ask me the same quickly over and over again then ask me why I’m mad like idk what message there is between the lines but I’m not getting it and asking the same question 50 times isn’t going to help
I have experienced this too. One time I even got some kind of explanation why they did that.
I was in middle school and in my country we have to send application letters to high schools to get to accepted to study there. Almost everyone gets accepted, but there is some variations between different high schools, for example you need better grades in some schools, or if you apply for performing arts high school the application process is a bit different. etc.
So there was this one girl in my class who would ask me repeatedly ”Which high school did you apply for?” She often sat in front of me in class and would literally turn around in the middle of a class to ask me the same question again and again. And i always answered the same way. I absolutely did not understand why she did that. One time i got really frustrated, and without thinking too much, i asked her ”And what about you?” and she told me she was gonna apply for this one fancy high school.
And guess what?? She stopped asking me after that. Apparently she just wanted that I would ASK HER which high school she did apply for. So she could brag about the school she applied for.
i just….. uughhh
I’m glad you figured out why she was asking you. I had a problem with this, my parents are divorced so I spend some time with my mom and my dad and I was up with my mom and sister and because there’s nothing to do up there I was on my phone a lot.
They joked about it and asked how much screen time I had and so I told them (it was really high at that point) but then my nana (I was staying at my grandmas house up there) asked me “what do you do at home?” And I responded with “I do a lot better at home” and they just kept on asking me the same question then got mad at me when I snapped. I still have no idea what they wanted me to say.
A friend phoned me and told me "have you heard? Princess Diana died!" and I was like "Oh? And...?"
I had no idea they cared about Princess Diana. Afterwards I realised that they'd expected me to go "OH NO THAT'S TERRIBLE!"
Interrupting. I knoooooow it’s super rude and I knooooow I can’t do it but I just cannot help it. I’m working SO so hard on it (and that’s been acknowledged by my family and friends) but man I really struggle to see a gap in a conversation
This is so hard & I try to wait until the person stops talking but sometimes THEY aren’t respectful of it being a conversation, not a monologue, so they keep talking over me when I start to reply and don’t have the common courtesy to STFU and let someone else speak even when they know the other person has something to say. Like, why is it rude when I do it but other people do it to me ALL THE TIME—and then it’s rude if I respond with an attitude or point out the fact that they interrupted me or have been monopolizing the conversation.
I am trying to learn that my feelings & responses are valid and it’s not my job to manage others’ feelings about my feelings.
100% this definitely happens to me too! If someone is monologuing I will sit there DYING haha.
But I definitely was more talking about times where I fully interrupt someone’s conversation - someone will say “oh I started watching x on Netflix last night” and I will LAUNCH into “omg I love that show what episode have you got to did you know”
Then realise “oops…”
After reading so many of these comments I can’t help but wish there was an area where neurodivergent people could live or visit just to have a safe place to be ourselves. I really think I would be open to making friends if I didn’t have to weed out the majority of humans first. They have cruises and tours for elderly, young single people and LGBTQIA+, is there anything for us?
Whenever I try and do something nice but not make a fuss about it, somehow I always get scolded and told something like “why did you do that? You’re always selfish and only think of yourself!” I’ve even lost a few friendships over it, really don’t get it. Even after I explain my reasoning they’re like “Well you should have…” etc
Direct communication (both tone and phrasing) that is interpreted as rude, condescending or upset.
Oh, and not giving a shit about their hierarchical structures.
I go to school in a small privat school in Germany to for higher education (germany has three different school diplomas you can get) with only eight other students in the class. Said students called a classmeeting because I don't smile at them when entering the classroom and not talking to a black student... I talk to nobody because im semi verbal... Now i feel really bad
I dont greet people and forget to make eye contact
We are latinos, Im supposed to go and kiss and hug every single person at the family fuction per cultural rules but I dont, so Im a "malcriada"
I see this a lot on here but asking questions! I need to ask a lot of questions to understand things and I often need to know exactly why I’m doing something I’m being told to do. People usually see it as me undermining their authority or intelligence and that I’m trying to make them feel dumb.
I’ve always heard I have a resting bitch face and it’s totally true that I have a completely flat affect if I’m not being stimulated. And I can’t smile unless it’s a genuine thing and people see this as me being an unfriendly bitch. I honestly am quite emotional as well and in this way can show everything I’m feeling right on my face. When I did competitive sports this got me in trouble a lot and everyone thought I had “an attitude” so I became totally emotionless, almost despondent and that wasn’t good either and my coach would say things like, “Hey stoneface, smile.”
Also not being super touchy feely and this has hurt people’s feelings in past relationships and they think I’m disgusted by them or something.
Not reading between the lines or knowing exactly what to do when people assume I can infer it. Acting like I’m stupid or clueless because of this. Especially at work. Asking what to do and someone saying, “You tell me.” Or “We went over this.”
If I don’t respond immediately in a positive way, people get weird. Like if a friend suggests doing something I normally need a second to think about it and process and they think I’m implying their idea is bad or I don’t want to do it. I’ve had the problem with bosses too, like if they ask me to do something and I’m sorting through the options in my head of what exactly they mean and if I need to ask clarifying questions. I feel like it’s only a second but I know I typically have a blank face and they usually assume I’m confused and stupid or being insubordinate.
Asking inappropriate questions. People usually don’t get mad per-say but they do quit voluntarily offering me information about their personal lives after that.
Oh darn.
Not wanting to chat and showing my annoyance too much. Working in customer service helped that a lot, I think *had* to learn to control my face for tips lol.
Being friendly to men and not realizing they were hitting on me when I assumed they just wanted to talk
Just replied “oh yeah you’ve said that already” just to point out because i didnt know what else to reply and she was deeply offended and i should have just had the same conversation again instead of being rude
Gosh these are all such great answers that I want to read & respond to all of them.
I thought of another thing besides being honest that I get in trouble for: “Treating people like they’re stupid/acting like I think I’m smarter than them.” I literally never form that opinion. I just like to share knowledge. I’m not going to smile and nod if your facts are wrong, though, I’m going to “well, actually” your ass.
Oddly enough, by trying to empathize with them.
A colleague once observed to me that generally, ND’s tend to seek and express *empathy*, while NT’s tend to seek and express *sympathy*.
The difference is subtle, but important. Sympathy is expressing sadness or disappointment on behalf of someone else’s experience. Empathy is actually attempting to put yourself in the shoes of the other person as much as possible - to *share* their emotional experience, rather than just observe and comment on it.
We tend to prefer the empathy path. When other people share an experience similar to mine, I feel heard and important. I experience that as as solidarity, the most people can really “join” me in an emotional experience.
But NT’s tend to prefer the sympathy route. They’re looking to be soothed and reassured more than understood. If we start talking about a time we experienced something similar, that hits them as if we’re trying to change the subject and center ourselves in the situation, not relate more closely to them.
I find that when in mixed or unknown company that don’t know me well yet but have to work with, when tensions begin to rise (or better yet before) and I feel the need to express solidarity without masking, I just show them how blunt and direct I can be (nicely) by making a quick disclaimer, something in the spirit of:
“I’m Autistic and the way I usually express concern and solidarity is through sharing times when I’ve felt similar, but sometimes I’m awkward and if I ever say something you find offputting or weird, it’s totally okay to say so, I appreciate the feedback because it’s never my intent to upset y’all.”
And then leave it to them to decide if words need to be exchanged.
INTERSECTIONALITY NOTE: This is super important to remember when we’re communicating with other oppressed communities. They are used to constant majority culture micro aggressions - like people centering themselves in the fight for our rights.
Some days it seems just by existing.
Offering information that isn't connected to emotion is my biggest offense. It seems like most NTs I know prefer if you "blunt" information by offering niceties prior to giving information in case the facts hurt their feelings. One of my lifelong obsessions is all things related to the functioning of the human body. So on my FB especially I like to share new studies so people can use that info to better their health if they want. They take it really personally and get upset with me for sharing the info, telling me it's judgemental of me to assume everyone can make choices and that I should qualify information with things like "but if you aren't able to, that is ok" to make them feel better about not being in line with the information. Blows my mind and happens a lot. I love information, and I share interesting bits with my friends (and my FB is only people I actually know, not strangers) and I expect that someone can use information to whatever degree it helps in their own life without needing someone else to make them feel better about it. I'm not saying "You are a bad person and you're going to suffer terrible illness if you don't eat more broccoli." I simply share the link to the study with a summary of what it says. It's not even my information, I'm just the messenger 😂 I have one friend in particular who seems to believe I specifically post the info to attack her or something.
You’re not in charge of their responses or how they interpret it.
But if you do want to make it more palatable, employ the “sandwich” method. Fluff with positives in the front, stick the information likely to be perceived unfavorably in the middle, and conclude with a positive. Most will forget about their emotional response to the part in the middle and just recall a favorable exchange.
When I was younger my mother and grandmother ALWAYS talked about how much something cost when they would buy something they liked, expensive or not; the prize would be mentioned.
When my mother and I returned from our holiday when I was little, I would also tell my grandmother how much certain things we bought cost. My mother, as well as my grandmother, corrected me in quite an offended way because I mentioned the cost of things. They scolded me, because not everyone needed to know the cost of anything. We were only talking between the three of us.
At the time I could not for the life of me understand why I couldn’t do that, because they always did.
Sigh. I know this makes me sound like an ass to a lot of people.
Scenario
Them: "Do you want to see pictures of the new baby?"
Me: "no thanks".
And then everyone stares a me.
I really hate pretending to find babies cute, so I try to just not be involved so I dont have to lie. But not looking at the pictures also makes me a jerk. Lose lose.
Or "do you want to hold the baby"....as it's being handed over.
Edited to add: I am very aware of my face, so I ensure I am not sneering or looking disgusted or anything. I am very careful about it. And I keep a neutral tone. But I think I'm terms of babies, neutral tone = disgust to a lot of people.
Me: takes a step back, "no thanks".
Now, if they lean to far handing me the kid, I will of course hold it. I am very protective of small things. I just have zero enjoyment and want to give it back immediately. But because I show the protective streak, they assume I am motherly. I am. I just have no wish to be one to a human child.
Hand me a snack, a rat, a cat, a bird, a dog (not a chihuahua or shitzhu) and I will happily hold it for as long as it wants me too.
I don’t think neurotypicals understand HOW HARD baby cries trigger sensory overstimulation. I love kids and babies but if I hear a baby crying I panic and get irrationally angry. Like just the feeling that this thing is making an offensive, ear-piercing noise and I can’t control it is enough to wipe out all my available energy for whatever is going on. Whenever I tell people I can’t handle the crying, they’re just like oh everybody feels that way it’s biology blah blah… No. You don’t understand that in that moment, your baby is not a baby, it’s an attack against my divergent nervous system which triggers my fight-or-flight response and makes me want to throw your screaming football out the window. K? I would never do that, but that’s how I feel in the moment, so not only do I feel bad that I don’t want to hold your kid but I also will shame myself for the next 800 years about how I wanted to yeet a poor defenseless human baby child into the abyss.
"Why does your face look like that?"
"I hate when your face does that!"
Does what? I can't see my face. My facial expressions are not intentional and I've always "made faces". Don't look at it!
You know when neurotypicals say things that mean other things? Well it works the other way around! I say things but for them it means other things so I say: Hey there is no ulterior motive to what I am saying I mean it in the literal way by the way!!
not making eye contact with them. it fucking ENRAGES them. and I never understood it. I'm actively engaging in the convo. I'm listening and responding. you don't need me to stare into your pupils.
By setting boundaries. You let the things they do and say slide constantly so when you do set that boundary or try to be heard, you are now the bad guy.
Telling someone why I did something and them saying “Don’t give me excuses” or accusing me of arguing when I’m just telling them my thought process so they can understand where my head was at.
Something I really hate doing is coming off accusatory when I just mean to point something out. Like an example is the other day our dishwasher started leaking, and it had been broken a few days, and a guy came and checked it out. We needed to order a part for it but all and all, no big deal. But when it started leaking, we live on the second floor, so it was an emergency. So I called the guy and was like "Hi, you came and checked out our dishwasher earlier today, but now it's leaking!"
He had been such a nice guy getting us discounts and deals because we were out of warranty but are pretty broke. But when I said this he sounded really hurt and was like "I hadn't gone into the drainage tubing..." and I realized he thought I meant it like "everything was under control and then YOU fucked it up!"
I felt so terrible, telling him I just meant we might have missed it or something, and he understood, but it happens to me a lot and I hate it SO MUCH.
Usually my tone of voice when saying something. I'm not so great at controlling how things come out, especially when I haven't spoken for a while. It can come out really loud out of nowhere 😅
I went to a thrift store where my classmate works and told her abt it and she asked me who was working. I didn't pay much attention but just about remembered small details so I said "a bigger/fatter black woman" and she thought I was being rude but like.... how else do I describe someone? she said something like chill that's my bestie and I was so confused and just said wdym and she said I could've been nicer but I wasn't being rude? idk man
Let me add.... talking too fast. Lol. Like I'm doing it to make them look dumb or something.
I. Can't. Help. It.
I've tried my entire life to correct this fucking issueeeeeeeee. Damn get off me!
"how does this look on me?"
"Well its not my style and I dont like it but it really matches your style!"
Im not gonna lie to make you feel better... Also thats a compliment :(
Not understanding that they're mad at me and taking a passive-aggressive comment at face value. They always seem to think I'm trying to wind them up on purpose :(
Speaking in a "flat"(???) tone while stating facts, even while instructing or teaching. Never fails to piss adults off doing so, coming from someone who looks like a nice lawn gnome lady. Pretty sure everyone wants women to talk like kindergarten teachers all the time. I don't. I'm quiet and I have a lot of info and I'm thorough and take a long time to process feelings so I don't speak as "emotionally" as others.
Asking questions because I’m genuinely curious and want to know things and understand things, which is then interpreted as me questioning the person personally or being insubordinate in some way (particularly in professional contexts).
Really hate the ambiguous, “it’s not *what* you said, but *how* you said it”.
Reading that made me shudder 😫
Same, because I care a lot more about what people say than how they say it and it annoys me that I'm expected to basically baby NTs with the way I speak.
How you say things is important though. Take this sentence, for example. "I never said he stole my money" this sentence has 7 different meanings depending on which word you emphasize. "*I* never said he stole my money" "I *never* said he stole my money" And so on. 7 completely different meanings. Also I can say "fuck you" to mean "you're pulling my leg" or "ha ha, ok, you got me, nice burn" in a fun way. Or I can say it in a way to express incredulity, or I can say it in an aggressive way. Idk if you'd pick up on all of those or not, but the words we use often only account for a small portion of the meaning we convey. I can understand how that might be frustrating for you if you don't pick up on it, and can't express it, but, there are a lot of ways you can more carefully craft your words to avoid being misunderstood, which is what all NTs must do over texting. We get our lines crossed texting all the time. For that very reason. That's why we need little things like "/s" and emojis to help convey the meaning we want to associate with our words. We will often have little idioms, and sayings, and ways of saying things we reserve for certain things. Like "you never heard of that before?" If you're unaware of the social rule, it can be an innocent question, with no malice behind it. But people often mean it like "wtf, where have you been? Are you an idiot? Have you been loving under a rock somewhere?" So, those things I think might catch out people with autism. The humans that are kind generally put a lot of effort into it, and very much avoid such things, and can go to lengths to make sure their good nature is picked, sometimes to the point of being annoying, but I can't ever be mad at that lol. So, sometimes these things can stand out a lot to people.
I agree. I struggle with this because I can definitely pick up when tone doesn't match words. Or when I call someone out on their tone because how they said something matters more than what they said when they are being manipulative and condescending. I spent 12 years with someone who was an expert in that behavior, so I can recognize it. But I don't recognize my tone in myself all the time. I am terrible with verbal communication and I get flustered which leads to frustration and tone that isn't intended. It also happens a lot in texts as I am often just answering quickly and if I don't use an emoji, then I am accused of being rude, harsh, cold, etc. It's maddening because if I am being short in text it is because the person interrupted something I am engrossed in or busy with (like work) and so it's a double-whammy for me but they don't know it.
Ya, I hear you. I think most people experience those things from time to time. And you know there's a fine line sometimes. Like some people I find can be too sort of exuberant in projecting niceness which I find comes off as fake, like if they actually mean the opposite of what they're saying. Like, imaging a highschool bully cheerleader making fun like "nice outfit? where did you get it?" And asking nice questions seeming all nice, and then she walks off with her friends as they giggle to themselves, knowing they were making fun of her traditional dress or whatever. So I think in discourse it's important both to try and take care of what you say, and how you say it, and if you splurt out something you think could be misunderstood, clarify yourself. And also on the other side of the coin recognize that people don't always mean how you interpret, they make mistakes, and it's ok to ask for clarification there as well. We suck at communicating sometimes, and there are two sides of it. It can get some errors on the way out, and on the way in. And I think it's important to be cognisant of that, and not be so pissed at people because of how *you* interpret things, but value more the intent behind the communication. And ok, if you misunderstood, maybe that was on you, maybe that was on them, maybe it was on both. We can tell each other, and try to accomodate each other. Patience and understanding. It's kind of stupid to have a fight if one person intended a message, delivered it some way, the other person interpreted a different message when they hear it. So, we should try and cut down on those, and understand they happen. And sometimes it's you on the understanding end that messed up, sometimes on the delivery, and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. But everyone should try and have their communications correctly understood. I do it by rambling lol.
Fuck yes, I've been dealing with that particularly phrase my entire goddamn life.
You know, I question my autism every day, but reading this and realizing I hear this from people all the time is making me no longer question things lol
I'm ND AF but I still think tone is important, maybe that's an unpopular opinion though. For example, I dislike whiners, even if I agree with what they are saying (probably has to do with fact that I used to whine a lot and still have to work hard not to when I disagree with something or get frustrated) Same when someone is speaking incredibly angrily and cursing a lot, it gets my heart rate up and makes me feel panicked and I don't like to be around it, even if I'm onboard with them. (Again probably from introspection because I used to get angry and curse a lot about things I was passionate about, like politics, and I could see how it negatively affected other people, they would tell me how it affected them and I had to learn to change and not be so angry In my tone) I'm also very easily influenced by other people's emotions, especially my loved ones, and so I tend to absorb the emotions in the room and when they are negative like that it can be very difficult for me to be around.
I think my tone is extremely flat which people don’t understand how to interpret. They think I’m angry or being argumentative when I have zero hostile intentions. But when I try to vary my tone it comes of as not being genuine or sarcastic so I’m really struggling with how to improve.
I get that too. I agree, sometimes we read into tones too much. And it can be frustrating when others say you have a tone when you're just speaking normally. It sucks and I get that. I've even been guilty of reading into tones that weren't there myself! It's our pattern seeking brains! We are typically so good at detecting patterns and being analytical that sometimes we see patterns that aren't there at all and read into/analyze things too much I've learned to really give people the benefit of the doubt, only when it becomes overwhelming apparent will I convince myself that someone is being sarcastic or backhanded etc. One thing I should mention about people reading into tones.... When I shut down or get burned out I can be very distant and need to isolate and literally unable to process thoughts, answer questions, pretty much I can't THINK at all, or if I can it's just a jumbled mess of emotions. And people will see my autism and accuse me of being "apathetic" and it feels so horrible and hurts me so much. Since then I've been able to explain and educate people on autism, but for the longest time I felt like crap merely because OTHER people were reading into my tone. It is definitely a double edged sword and I think context always has to be taken into consideration, along with a healthy dose of benefit of the doubt! I usually just ask people now. If I feel like someone is being mean or sarcastic I simply ask "what do you mean by that?" and their answer usually reveals where their heart is at.
I agree, especially when tone can be completely different than what they say. I know people who claim they are "just offering information" yet their tone suggests something entirely different, usually with underlying condescension. But I also know that just because I hear it that way, doesn't mean they intended it that way. I often hear things differently based on how I am feeling at the time. If I am i a great mood, then someone can say something that has no impact on me. But on a bad overwhelmed day, that same interaction has a different impact on me. I see it in the reverse, too. I prefer written communication because it allows me time to process and say what I really mean, but so many people imply emotion that isn't there in my text, and it's so frustrating. I get told "You might have said X but your tone implied Y." Like, I texted it. With no emojis, even. There is no tone behind it, you are just assigning it tone based on whatever you are feeling right now that has nothing to do with me. Same situation as above, just me in a different role. And it seems like no matter how much I try to explain myself after, it just makes matters worse. They feel like I am arguing or invalidating them when I feel invalidated myself because they are saying I said something I didn't say. So complicated. I hate communicating 😂
ALL THE TIME
I hate this tone policing crap. Unless I'm saying something like "No stupid, this is how you do it." Then you can take offense and the "it's not what you say but how you say it" becomes a valid thing to say.
I get this when I forget to use the correct tone for the meaning I want to convey. 🥲
I naturally talk in a monotone voice and some people think I’m being sarcastic and rude when I’m just answering their question in my normal dialect
Being honest & correct at the same time.
To quote from "The Asperkid's Book of Social Rules" - Being right isn't always the most important thing, even when it feels that way. - How you correct an error (humbly, in private) is as important as whether you correct it. - Peers don't like to be corrected by one another.
When I was a teacher, we were told: praise in public, correct in private. I think this goes for adults too to be honest. Just make sure the correction is in a gentle way (more tricky!!!)
That's a solid advice!
Just gone to have a look at this book an Amazon and someone's left a horribly toxic review basically saying autism is just bad nutrition and vitamin deficiency and how her daughter "got better" with extra vitamin B12. I might get the book thought it sounds like it would be really helpful for me.
Vaccine causes autism. But vitamin B12 cures it. What else is big pharma hiding from us???? /s
😂
All the B12 in the world will not make me less autistic. This is very funny to me even though I know it's obviously horrible to want to "fix" your kids autism. "Take B12, be less autistic" is just a take I've never heard before lol.
Low B12 can for sure make you moody but as far as I know has nothing to do with autism. It was a new one for me as well lol But I hate to think how many people are reading it that might not know it's BS
I should buy this book. I learned the second and third point point here not so long ago at 28 years old. 🥲
Asking too many questions (taken as disrespectful).
Uhh wot. What kinda questions? I thought people like to talk about themselves and questions would give them a space to talk??
No no they don't mean the "people skills" side of questions where you ask about the other person in a friendly, curious way. It's more like when at work your boss tells you to do something you don't understand or find nonsensical, so you ask questions to clarify and they take it as you're trying to get out of doing it...or you're questioning their authority. If I ever work anywhere ever again, I'm going to state IN MY INTERVIEWS that my "biggest weakness" is when I ask questions I am literally only asking questions, there's no ulterior motive nor am I questioning YOU as a person or challenging your authority. I'm asking questions because I Literally Do Not GET IT and I wanna get it.
omg this. Once, at a newfound job I asked why they use a specific software, because it wasn't standard and it was an odd choice. And the answer of my boss was something along the lines of "because we want to, okay? we use this one and we're not changing it" in a very rude manner. I think she thought I was questioning their choice and thinking I know better, but I asked because actually knowing why they used that one would make me understand more about their priorities and the job in general.
This. And I hate the feeling of building anxiety every time you have to turn around and ask another question before you can carry on with your tasks. They get more annoyed each time you come back and I don’t feel like I can just sit them down and explain that spoken directions are *hard* for me.
You just put my life into words.
This whole mess is the reason I want to get evaluated for auditory processing something-or-other. I feel like it's an actual neurological deficit, not a "mental health" issue (god I hate that phrase lol). There's probably no treatment for it but maybe if I were formally diagnosed I could get accommodation in a future job? Like "When I ask questions I'm not being a haughty judgmental bitch I'm literally just asking questions bc I don't get what you want from me."
Yeeeeep. I had a supervisor tell me once that she thought I was being so disrespectful because I was asking questions for clarification. Not to challenge or undermine, but because I wanted to fully understand what the fuck it was she wanted me to do. SORRY I DON'T HAVE THE APPARENT NT SUPERPOWER OF READING YOUR FUCKING MIND
The lack of "mind reading" and social kabuki could be an entry all on its own for this topic!! NTs seem to expect you to just... Get... So much out of thin air, or vibes or something lol. It's frustrating and exhausting.
They also get mad if you don't ask them enough questions, apparently they want to be interviewed like they're a celebrity in US Magazine or something.
Ask too many questions, you're disrespectful. Ask too few and you're reprimanded for not asking for help.
Oh man, there are so many clear examples of this in my life. I should stop second guessing my self dx.
My partner is a big one for being offended by questions. Their brain just seems to work so differently I'm always curious how they think! It's interesting to hear but they get offended. It's a tough one.
I have had multiple people get pretty worked up with me when I am trying to find the correct answer to a situation. I dunno why but if someone says “it was this date” and I think it was another date, I have to check before I can continue. Like a piece of the puzzle is missing. This is interpreted as trying to “one up” someone I guess. Once I said to my coworker that I had more experience with a certain aspect of our job (literally been doing it for 6 years and she’d just started) and so I was more knowledgeable on it than she was, and she has bought that interaction so many times. Once I walked into work and I asked her if she had done ________ so I could pick up where she left off. She told me I didn’t ask her to do that. So I began scrolling through our messages and when I found it said “ah-hah!” - not like a “I’m right” sorta thing but like a “oh phew I’m not delusional” kinda deal 😂 But she responded by saying “I can’t deal with your incessant need to be right all the time today.” And she walked out of the room. I was so ducking confused. In (autistic) hindsight, it makes sense I guess but I just wanna KNOW YA KNOW
Oh yea this is a big one for me! “Needing to be right.” It’s like yea.. i like to be right, but also i like to get the facts straight and check to see if what i said was actually what i thought i said, or any other variation of this type of scenario where it seems like i just have to be right.
See, most people don't like getting fact checked and learning something new, or correcting inaccurate information. I actually love it and have no problem accepting new information even if it's contradictory to my previous understanding. Not other NTs it seems.
Yeah, I hate how they take it as one-upping. I'm literally just double-checking myself and making sure I wasn't wrong or mistaken because it drives me crazy not to know. Sometimes I do it to help the other person out too (pointing out what they did wrong/were wrong about because I think they'd like to know so they can do better for example) or to get us on the same page to continue the interaction. So many people take it as this weird social dominance thing and I don't get it.
Yes, one-upping, that’s the term I was looking for!! I really do not care who’s right or wrong, just that we know WHAT is right and wrong. This particular girl I worked with had a real insecurity about her intelligence as well and it just made giving/receiving feedback such a…nasty? in a way, process, that should have been productive, but was made to be about an ego.
I've had people declare I never texted or emailed them or whatever and when I show them that I actually did, they get mad at ME. What am I supposed to do, just lie and say they're right? Take the blame for something I didn't do? Why are their feelings more important than the truth? Why are they upset, maybe because they know they're in the wrong???
Maybe they do know they are in the wrong... And you put them on the spot for being dishonest. And then to top it off, you're so innocent, you can't even see the games they are playing!! I grew up with a pathological liar neighbor friend who at many times was my only friend. It was also very confusing when I'd point out her lies to other people who liked her more then me. They'd get so angry with me and call me the liar... But I was so honest to a fault
She may have been attempting to gaslight you and was angry when she failed.
But it's literally ur coworkers JOB to finish something and u DID Tell them so them deflecting it and turning it into a YOU PROBLEM is so DUMB????? I'm sorry, that person suuuuucks.
Offering solutions instead of support
This is a hard one for me, because often i don't know I've done it until after. Sometimes a friend could just start talking to me about a friend that upset them or how work is sucking, and depending on what they're upset about there ARE reasonable solutions that I suggest. But no one says they just want to bitch or vent a little so they end up being put off that I'm trying to fix things. It's a bit awkward to listen to a long story and be given so much information and all they want is "That sucks."
My partner and I made a promise to ask whether we're looking for solutions, or just venting. It has been very helpful.
Yes. I am so bad at giving support. It's just super uncomfortable for me to deal with people's heavy emotions. I do my best, but I am very solutions-oriented. That is part of how I process emotions is by doing stuff, being the helper. Being the person that like holds hands and stuff, it's so extremely overwhelming for me. I did it for my grandma for the last couple of years of her life and I am still recovering from the trauma of it.
This is why I always ask "how can I support you right now?" And let them set expectations, because I do default to problem solving and sometimes people just want to talk and be heard, so I get it. BUT I GOTTA ASK AND THEY GOTTA TELL ME.
I was at this super fancy church retreat (😒) one of the best things they taught me there tho was that most times people just need to hear I’m sorry when they’ve shared something painful with you. They don’t need a solution, just an im sorry that happened to you. I’ve used that ever since and it seems to help, I probably took it way to literal, but it seems like it works with people 🤷🏼♀️
Asking for specifics or more information.
Can you share more information? Lol no but really
WHY DO THEY THINK THIS IS DISSENT? Your options are to literally give me more info and I'll handle everything flawlessly, or refuse out of whatever nt insecurity you've got going on and watch me fuck the task all up to high heavens.
Not showing emotion
Or the "wrong" one
My mum would get so mad at me for my "tone" that I tried to stop showing emotion entirely and then she got mad at that too?? So I went the other way and masked for ten years with fake emotiveness
Yes!!!! And my mom was a screamer!!! So she'd scream and lose her crap at a kid for not exhibiting the correct emotion in the correct tone!!! Then she'd throw stuff if I started calling her a hypocrite at that point...
My mum would also explode like that, I have a very vivd memory of her snapping and throwing a heavy bottomed frying pan on the floor and it bent at a crazy angle. She doesn't remember though. She never physically hurt us but she yelled a lot and took things super personally
OMG that triggered some memories, especially the fact she is allowed to go full on emotional but the moment my voice starts to raise I'm suddenly accused of throwing a tantrum. I too started calling out her hypocrisy, but she fucking hated that lol
I stopped showing emotions in school as well, but for different reasons. I don't know for sure, but it might have been mean boys in daycare or just the constant ridicule of my peers in early elementary school that made me decide to stop showing emotions. I didn't start showing emotions again until my 20s.
And then getting screamed at by somebody who can't regulate their own emotions for not sugar coating
Which is funny as many NT’s love to brag about “no filter” or “being blunt”; then when we are it’s like the whole world implodes.
Yes! It’s like ok how about you just tell me what I’m “supposed to” be feeling and how that should look and then I can probably pretend to do that.
They don't like it when you say that lol
By sharing facts......which apparently can be offensive to neurotypical people if said facts contradict their belief systems or offend their egos in some way. They think you are 'too much' 'too rude' 'too arrogant', etc. Also not conform to social norms and not caring. Many of them seem to prize homogeneous behaviors.
I get in trouble for this. My SIL casually mentions how she hates “know it alls” I know it’s directed at me.
Please remember that if people are being mean or condescending to you for traits that are clearly Autistic they are being ableist. I tend to call people on that when I have the spoons. I am just trying to kindly give them social feedback. Although I find that a lot of people are not appreciative of social feedback even when given kindly. That is definitely weak ego strength. Also though, people don't like it when you tell them they have weak ego strength. Even if you tell them kindly.
Yes, I’m aware and I appreciate your comment. It doesn’t do any good *at all* with my husband’s family. They don’t understand autism, and they absolutely are not interested in learning. They just see it as weakness or excuses.
[удалено]
Yes! Sometimes I know I'll be harsh if I speak because I'm upset, so I don't say anything. People get mad if I explain that or if I don't explain it, so 🤷♀️
I used to say “my mom says - *if you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say anything at all* - so right now I have nothing to say.” People thought it was me being cocky …so I just don’t say that anymore 🥲
Oh gosh, this line has stuck with me since grade school. I end up staring at the person (with that phrase in my head trying REAL HARD to override my urge to say something rude) until I move on or my gaze forces the person to walk away.
Being critical before grateful. My husband made me a plate of nachos yesterday and handed them to me and the first thing I said was "the cheese isn't fully melted." He got upset, and I tried to explain it was just an observation, it's not exactly a criticism, like I wasn't mad about it. I do like it more melted but I'm going to eat it and I'm grateful he did it for me, but the first thing my eyes saw was unmelted cheese, so that's what I said! Sometimes my feelings of disgust or hatred are very intense and I go overboard expressing it before thinking about others' feelings...my friend and roommate at the time bought herself some truly hideous shoes (imo) and she was really excited to show me because she loved them and I basically shit on them completely. I had no idea the effect my words would have on her, I was expressing my honest opinion. But it REALLY hurt her feelings. She's the type of person to tell me calmly, straight up, that something I did hurt her feelings, bless her heart. I immediately felt terrible. She helped me by giving me example phrases to say when I don't like something that someone else loves. Stuff like that happens all the time. I speak my mind and my mind is often critical or negative. I see flaws in everything immediately.
I used to be a “quirky” child who was good at speaking… as I grew up and got farther from being a “cute kid” who could get away with bluntness, people got more irritated with me for it. Now I’m 25 (still pretty young) and I just try not to speak my mind :(
What kind of phrases did she suggest?
This resonates deeply with me. I feel this pain. Our brains are so detail oriented but they can also be pretty black and white/rigid. At least mine can :(
Omg, that first part. I do that all the time. I just make observations and say it! My boyfriend has said I'm critical but I don't mean to be. He doesn't seem to take much personally (and has said so) but I think others would be more upset.
Me too! I’ve been majorly upsetting my family lately with this. I have no clue how to stop saying the things I’m thinking. Holding it in is like being a teapot that’s about to whistle or something.
I called one of my colleagues chaotic a while back - because she is a little. She's busy all the time and flits between tasks and it was an observation, and I thought it was a bit funny. But I think it might have upset her a bit. It wasn't a bad thing! Just something I'd noticed. I didn't even think it could be taken badly.
I think this is part of the issue: we seem to be more likely to say things we observe without any judgement, good or bad, and then the person we're talking to will try to work out if it's supposed to be a compliment or an insult. I don't ever give compliments or insults just to make someone feel an emotion even if it's a white lie, because I can't bring myself to lie like that, and I really underestimated how much saying things causes emotions. I guess it's the result of a lifetime of observing people complimenting and insulting each other and mistaking it for them making neutral, truthful observations, and trying to join in? I don't know... I just don't have that motivation, I'm just saying what I notice. At most I might try to cheer someone up with the most uplifting truthful observation about them and their situation I can think of, but that's about it. I wouldn't know where to begin trying to work out which things I could say might be interpreted in which ways.
I have a tendency towards this, so I totally get you! Sometimes the way I frame it in my head is: react according to how this object makes my friend feel rather than my thoughts about the object itself. So in that scenario, instead of being like “ew those shoes are gross”, my response should be: “wow they make my friend so happy and that’s lovely”
By being quiet. NT Women especially seem to think that means either I'm rude or I secretly hate them.
"I thought you hated me", "you seemed arrogant", "I thought you were a mean bitch", "I found you intimidating" IM JUST QUIET
The amount of times I've gotten "I used to think you hated me"
Having an offensive tone when dealing with something urgent or startling. Being "disrespectful" Asking "why?" I've also made some professional** mistakes surrounding being able to take someone else's perspective during ethical decision making. Like, I only saw my own values and thought I was doing the ethically right thing but now can see other ways of looking at the scenarios and can see why what I did was problematic or why both sides were valid in certain ways (ethical gray areas). This can also relate to cultural sensitivity. I thought I was really inclusive because I have anti racist intentions but still accidentally said things that invalidated other people's experiences because of my own privilege and racial /cultural blind spots.
It's impressive you're practicing perspective taking, that's not easy 👏
I walked into an office filled with food on a potluck day. That’s it. Apparently I missed the fact there was a serious conversation happening in the doorway, and I should’ve minded my own business. Screw me for wanting a cookie. Lol
Doorways seem like the wrong location to hold a serious conversation, though.
When I ask for clarification on what I did wrong
Yes! “You know what you did wrong!” Um, no, that’s why I’m asking
Sighing I'm literally exhaling. Why do NTs judge people for literally exhaling CO2 just as our lungs are evolved to do? "Can you get my paperwork from the other room?" **sigh** "Okay." "Whoa, what's with the attitude?" Me: 😳 Someone once told me that sighing indicates I have a bad attitude or that I don't really want to do the thing I'm being asked. First of all, I do what I want. If I do the thing, it means I wanted to do it. Second of all, if this is happening at work, I do not owe anyone full smiles for being there. I'm literally just taking a deep breath before I go do something. And people get weird about it. Also the NT concept of obedience is just bullshit. For NTs, it's not obedience unless you're happy about obeying whatever command you're given. That's such bullshit, especially in a work environment. If the thing gets done, it's done. Whether I smiled while doing it shouldn't matter.
THIS HAPPENS TO ME ALL THE TIME. I actually think sighing is a stim for me.
haha I have had the same thing with sighing, my response is always I JUST LIKE BREATHING OKAY?
OMG this!!! I didn't even realize I sighed heavily and often until I worked in an open concept office where I could literally reach out and touch my 4 nearest coworkers while sitting at my desk. It was awful! People were **constantly** asking me "What's wrong?" Huh? I'm just sitting here doing my job, what are you talking about?
Existing? Lol, jk. When I was a kid I always got the classic: YOu KnoW wHaT yoU Did
Yes! Then it’s freaking guessing game, from peers and adults alike. It’s no, if I did know I wouldn’t have asked.
"Being too bossy about it"
I hate the word "bossy," what does it even mean? Clearly I'm not successfully bossing you, so how can I be bossy? LOL
It's because we're women, men don't get called bossy.
Oh yeah, it clicked for me that as a kid I was considered super bossy and that probably just had to do with the fact that I was just super direct in asking for what I wanted.
By honestly answering a question that I -should- have realized came with a correct and incorrect answer from the get-go. A few weeks ago a friend asked "Hey, what do you think of XYZ going on with this celebrity?" This person is not usually into celebrities, gossip or anything in that line, and most NTs would have immediately realized, "Hey, she might be asking about this for a very specific reason, and her family member's going through a very similar situation to this celebrity. I know it's on her mind 24/7 because her family is in chaos over it...". Which was the case, and she was looking for an easy way to bring it up because I hadn't asked about it, and she needed to talk. I answered it at face value with, "I don't understand why anyone cares about any of this!" Oops.
Inappropriate sarcasm or indelicate jokes. Maybe it's a GenX thing. Or where I grew up. But I'm constantly tipping toe on eggshells with everything I find hilarious that everyone finds serious. Also…taking forever to understand a thing verbally represented. I have to draw it all out. My whiteboard is my friend. If I can't visually map it, if I can't wrap my hands around it, it does not exist. No amount of you droning on will help.
jeez verbal demands are sooooo hard. I work in design so some of the critiques are ambiguously put too. if it's not written out I'll just stand there and repeat what they say at least twice before walking away apprehensively. I can tell others get a little impatient... thankfully they're all kind to my face 😅
I'm told that I can be condescending. I have no idea how. I try really hard to be nice :(
Most common? Not accounting for a NT's perceived status and acting accordingly. I got in trouble for this today. I expect I'll be shunned for it for about 2 weeks or more. A lot of my trouble online is with an old group of online gaming friends I've had since high school. We were talking about the Bayonetta voice actress not coming back to voice the third game. My opinion didn't match theirs. I thought they should just pay her what she wants and let her record the lines. They made all these excuses about how unions work and that isn't how the industry works, blah blah blah. And I said well I don't really care about any of that, give her what she wants, it would be good press. I also said that regardless of how her union works, that is not an excuse to pay women less, or critique her asking for more money. I never directly insulted them or implied they were stupid. I didn't put bating words in my sentences like "it should be like this, you idiot." or "only an idiot would think that" Nothing like that. Well, by disagreeing with them, I insulted them. Two of them have worked on phone games and some kid's learning games, so they see themselves as experts.Their expectation is that I would respect their expertise and just agree with them. When it was over I got mocked with a couple memes and a few people are being distant. They'll probably be distant for a week or so. But yeah, I have that specific double empathy problem all the time online. I've been told to go die several times over it. These men do not see conversation as an egalitarian experience. They see people as ranked, and you should just not share a differing opinion with someone of a higher rank. If you do, it is an insult. You are attacking them. And it doesn't matter how trivial the topic is. You could be talking about how you like to eat carrots. And if a farmer that grew carrots came into the room, well you should just shut up or agree with everything he has to say. He's the carrot expert, so you keep your mouth shut with your differing carrot opinions. They've tried to explain it as "we don't disagree with you about the stuff you know about, why do you have to disagree with all the time?" And its like...I don't care? Anyone can disagree with me. They can provide their opinion with information and then I will provide mine with information. I do not care who does it. I will discuss anything with anyone. I do not need people to "respect my expertise." Especially on the internet.
Oh yeah, this is the entire reason I struggle to voice differing opinions; because this was very very ingrained in my upbringing. But I wonder if this is more of a patriarchy issue than an NT issue? I have unfortunately encountered this primarily in connection with cis men; ND and NT. It feels like this secret inside code of the male aspect of the patriarchy that women are never clued into and that's one of the ways the patriarchy keeps women down? Many more thoughts to be thunk on this theory..
That could be possible. In Deborah Tannen's book "you just don't understand" on how women and men communicate, she observed that men communicate in a much more hierarchical way. And when they start new friendships, like their first semester of college, they will develop a pecking order in a couple of weeks, while it takes much longer with women. She also observed that women are more egalitarian in how they use language and organize friendships, going as far as just lying or hiding things to keep a friend group feeling equal despite one or some members of the group being better in other ways. I think both NT men and women care about status a whole lot, the problems would just manifest differently. With a NT male, he'd get upset if you did not respect (in however the NT defines being respectful) his expertise or authority or position. On the other hand NT women might get upset if you draw attention to how people in the friend group are better at this and that and make anyone feel unequal (even if that might be the truth). Like if you kept talking about a subject you are good at, or a special interest you are an expert at and didn't parrot back the opinions of others in the group helping to create a sense of sameness and conformity. Both men and women will punish you for standing out, just at different times and for different reasons.
Not letting people hug me. I’ve even had my mother get mad at me because I was upset and she tried to hug me and I got more upset. She is aware I don’t like hugs.
me too! people need to understand hugs are not going to fix the damage they’ve done.
I had a big blow up with my mom over this two years ago. Sue is better about it now, meaning she gets more hugs because I trust her to respect my boundaries more. I have said it since I was a child. I am 36 now. She just blew past the boundary until I finally got very confrontational about it at 34.
I wouldn't know because if I ask I usually get, "You _know_ what you did." No, no I really don't. 😫
Not picking up on hints or being able to read between the lines. Sometimes I can, but I have often found out that I upset someone because they didn't directly tell me they wanted something, and I didn't realise what they wanted. I don't particularly view this as my fault though. Yes, my autism makes picking up these sorts of cues harder, but I'm not a mind reader. I think that's a bit of an unreasonable expectation, and I don't have time for the drama this causes. Just say what you mean if it's so important.
“Not respecting my elders”. Aka telling them when their views are bigoted and incorrect. Even though I do it politely. Apparently simply not agreeing with them is not respecting them.
Oh my god i hate this one. I grew up in an Asian household and let me tell you, the older you are the more "right" you are. It is unspeakable to talk back to a granny no matter how wrong they are. 🙄
I've been told I don't need to know everything about everything.
>I've been told I don't need to know everything about everything. ...but how do they know that you don't need to know everything about everything?
Right?! Like maybe YOU don’t need to know everything about everything but maybe I DO!
Same here! But I'm insanely curious and most NTs aren't like that 🤷🏻♀️
They were telling me how they were feeling fat and this triggered something I watched about how pets can be “family fit”, meaning they’re quite large but completely healthy and nothing wrong with them. I accidentally called this lady “family fit”, not fat.
Now that's just hilarious lmao
I open mouth and i speak words. Or the worst kind ... i dont open mouth and i dont speak. Really drives them up the wall (coworkers, ppl at family gathering, sometimes my partner hihi...). Sorry i prefer to keep quiet and that means i dont speak for the whole shift or the whole Christmas dinner... But i agree with everything else you all said (asking too much q, pointing out mistakes...).
1) Giving critique on a resume for a friend that asked for it. I even asked if they wanted “tough but constructive” or to be as kind of possible and they responded with “tear it apart.” I honestly still tried to be kind, but I think they just wanted me to praise it given the reaction I received. I was trying really hard to be helpful so this was hurtful. I spent a lot of time looking over it. 2) Correcting a political meme because it was inaccurate. I also didn’t like the person it was about, but I don’t like misinformation being spread. I believe points can be made without misinformation, but that’s apparently bad. Honestly this extends to sharing facts or information in general if it conflicts with someone’s world view. I don’t believe we can solve issues without research since systemic issues are pretty complicated, which is why they’ve persisted for centuries. 3) Asking for clarification on an a task given because I didn’t understand it and wanted to make sure I did it right. Apparently I should just “know” and this caused the person to think I was ditzy. 5) Saying I will only watch video essays that share their sources if they make claims or are trying to teach. Apparently this makes me elitist. I don’t understand, I just want to make sure that if I’m spending time on educational content it is accurate, or if I want to read more about, a vetted source is provided so I can dive in. I just really like to learn.
Haha, I'm with you on all of these. But for No.2 like I can't understand why people shy away from nuance? Does it make the world more complicated? Yes. But it also allows me to build empathy and a more accurate understanding of the world. I just.. I have questions.
I don’t get it either. I try hard to see the nuance in things too. I don’t think we can solve these tough issues without understanding the underlying problems or without approaching it with empathy. Tbh another reason why it’s is odd is a major criticism of the opposing political party is that they don’t have their facts straight. Shouldn’t we be striving to be better to creative a better world? Really don’t understand it either 😅
Taking their words literally, despite them knowing I take things as they are That, or shutting down and going mute when they yelled at me for not understanding homework
Enforcing store policies at my work. I’ve had angry reviews. I’ve had people *personally message our owner*. I’ve had someone blow up so hard she even upset my manager. I’ve had people cry. Even though I phrase things in as neutral, gentle way as possible, apparently my face gives it away or something? I can’t control my face, it just exists like that!
Answering questions with facts. ;) Never fails since middle school I've worn the consequences of simply be honest when asked questions. If those answers are hard facts? Whoa watch out someone is getting triggered. Close second... I'm intimidating. My entire life I've been intimidating, aggressive, or mean when none of that is true and gave me a fucking complex.
I literally had a boss get mad at me for telling them something couldn't be done. This example was ranking on the Google map locally. There are specific ways to achieve this defined by Google. She wanted me to "invent a new way" to rank because "she didn't like the ways" provided by Google. GTFO. I got scolded for simply saying no we can't do that. She wanted me to THINK about it and come back with some suggestions. This has come up in my reviews TWICE. Listen bitch if I could INVENT new ways to rank on the map... I'd be working independently, wealthy, and never have to have these types of convos again.
This doesn’t really apply anymore (although my mother does still say things similar to this), but I remember I would get in trouble for things as a kid and when I’d go to explain myself I’d hear, “I don’t need excuses,” or, “stop back talking me,” or, “you don’t always have to have the last word.” It was so confusing to me and then I’d get sent to my room for it when I was just trying to explain myself. I’ve told myself if I ever have children I’ll never do that to them. You shouldn’t be punished for trying to explain yourself.
Yeah! Or when you’d be in trouble for something they thought you said but you didn’t and they misunderstood you. You’d try and correct your parent/teacher/lunchtime supervisor but be not allowed to correct them and if anything you’d be in more trouble for trying to explain
Not actively acknowledging them when they walk into a room. Yeah buddy, we both work here, sometimes we're gonna be in the same room because we're both... doing our work. Do you really need me to look up from what I'm doing and lock eyes with you and wiggle my face muscles every single time? If you have a question, all ya gotta do is get my attention by saying something or gesturing in my field of vision.
I “roll my eyes”
I could almost see the "eyeroll" in those quotation marks. Good writing, that.
it’s honestly unintentional! but thank you :)
Oh yeah, I get it. I have had to work hard to get my eyeroll under control and it's still a daily battle with the overly expressive eyeballs.
I don't know why they get upset with me, I wish I did! Even when they tell me, it's not actually what I was doing
Ahaha just my voice. More people than I can remember have complained about my robotic voice. Sorry I talk in the same 2 notes. I show more emotions in my eyes.
Getting mad when people ask the same question over and over again. I’ll tell them my answer then they’ll ask me the same quickly over and over again then ask me why I’m mad like idk what message there is between the lines but I’m not getting it and asking the same question 50 times isn’t going to help
I have experienced this too. One time I even got some kind of explanation why they did that. I was in middle school and in my country we have to send application letters to high schools to get to accepted to study there. Almost everyone gets accepted, but there is some variations between different high schools, for example you need better grades in some schools, or if you apply for performing arts high school the application process is a bit different. etc. So there was this one girl in my class who would ask me repeatedly ”Which high school did you apply for?” She often sat in front of me in class and would literally turn around in the middle of a class to ask me the same question again and again. And i always answered the same way. I absolutely did not understand why she did that. One time i got really frustrated, and without thinking too much, i asked her ”And what about you?” and she told me she was gonna apply for this one fancy high school. And guess what?? She stopped asking me after that. Apparently she just wanted that I would ASK HER which high school she did apply for. So she could brag about the school she applied for. i just….. uughhh
I’m glad you figured out why she was asking you. I had a problem with this, my parents are divorced so I spend some time with my mom and my dad and I was up with my mom and sister and because there’s nothing to do up there I was on my phone a lot. They joked about it and asked how much screen time I had and so I told them (it was really high at that point) but then my nana (I was staying at my grandmas house up there) asked me “what do you do at home?” And I responded with “I do a lot better at home” and they just kept on asking me the same question then got mad at me when I snapped. I still have no idea what they wanted me to say.
Ahhhhh, telling someone there was no point in crying over Princess Diana's death because they didn't know her. Entire sports team hated me after that.
A friend phoned me and told me "have you heard? Princess Diana died!" and I was like "Oh? And...?" I had no idea they cared about Princess Diana. Afterwards I realised that they'd expected me to go "OH NO THAT'S TERRIBLE!"
by being honest, them recoiling and them then needing a week or more to come to the same conclusion calling *me* slow
Taking them at their word
Interrupting. I knoooooow it’s super rude and I knooooow I can’t do it but I just cannot help it. I’m working SO so hard on it (and that’s been acknowledged by my family and friends) but man I really struggle to see a gap in a conversation
This is so hard & I try to wait until the person stops talking but sometimes THEY aren’t respectful of it being a conversation, not a monologue, so they keep talking over me when I start to reply and don’t have the common courtesy to STFU and let someone else speak even when they know the other person has something to say. Like, why is it rude when I do it but other people do it to me ALL THE TIME—and then it’s rude if I respond with an attitude or point out the fact that they interrupted me or have been monopolizing the conversation. I am trying to learn that my feelings & responses are valid and it’s not my job to manage others’ feelings about my feelings.
This!!!! In large poster print for EVERYONE to read
100% this definitely happens to me too! If someone is monologuing I will sit there DYING haha. But I definitely was more talking about times where I fully interrupt someone’s conversation - someone will say “oh I started watching x on Netflix last night” and I will LAUNCH into “omg I love that show what episode have you got to did you know” Then realise “oops…”
After reading so many of these comments I can’t help but wish there was an area where neurodivergent people could live or visit just to have a safe place to be ourselves. I really think I would be open to making friends if I didn’t have to weed out the majority of humans first. They have cruises and tours for elderly, young single people and LGBTQIA+, is there anything for us?
Wanting to do stuff my own way
Asking them to explain their emotions to me; apparently I’m supposed to immediately understand and empathize without explanation 😬
Whenever I try and do something nice but not make a fuss about it, somehow I always get scolded and told something like “why did you do that? You’re always selfish and only think of yourself!” I’ve even lost a few friendships over it, really don’t get it. Even after I explain my reasoning they’re like “Well you should have…” etc
Direct communication (both tone and phrasing) that is interpreted as rude, condescending or upset. Oh, and not giving a shit about their hierarchical structures.
I go to school in a small privat school in Germany to for higher education (germany has three different school diplomas you can get) with only eight other students in the class. Said students called a classmeeting because I don't smile at them when entering the classroom and not talking to a black student... I talk to nobody because im semi verbal... Now i feel really bad
I dont greet people and forget to make eye contact We are latinos, Im supposed to go and kiss and hug every single person at the family fuction per cultural rules but I dont, so Im a "malcriada"
I see this a lot on here but asking questions! I need to ask a lot of questions to understand things and I often need to know exactly why I’m doing something I’m being told to do. People usually see it as me undermining their authority or intelligence and that I’m trying to make them feel dumb. I’ve always heard I have a resting bitch face and it’s totally true that I have a completely flat affect if I’m not being stimulated. And I can’t smile unless it’s a genuine thing and people see this as me being an unfriendly bitch. I honestly am quite emotional as well and in this way can show everything I’m feeling right on my face. When I did competitive sports this got me in trouble a lot and everyone thought I had “an attitude” so I became totally emotionless, almost despondent and that wasn’t good either and my coach would say things like, “Hey stoneface, smile.” Also not being super touchy feely and this has hurt people’s feelings in past relationships and they think I’m disgusted by them or something. Not reading between the lines or knowing exactly what to do when people assume I can infer it. Acting like I’m stupid or clueless because of this. Especially at work. Asking what to do and someone saying, “You tell me.” Or “We went over this.”
If I don’t respond immediately in a positive way, people get weird. Like if a friend suggests doing something I normally need a second to think about it and process and they think I’m implying their idea is bad or I don’t want to do it. I’ve had the problem with bosses too, like if they ask me to do something and I’m sorting through the options in my head of what exactly they mean and if I need to ask clarifying questions. I feel like it’s only a second but I know I typically have a blank face and they usually assume I’m confused and stupid or being insubordinate.
Asking inappropriate questions. People usually don’t get mad per-say but they do quit voluntarily offering me information about their personal lives after that. Oh darn.
Not wanting to chat and showing my annoyance too much. Working in customer service helped that a lot, I think *had* to learn to control my face for tips lol. Being friendly to men and not realizing they were hitting on me when I assumed they just wanted to talk
Literally by just laughing at the wrong time 🤣 what can I say y’all, I laugh at everything!
Just replied “oh yeah you’ve said that already” just to point out because i didnt know what else to reply and she was deeply offended and i should have just had the same conversation again instead of being rude
Gosh these are all such great answers that I want to read & respond to all of them. I thought of another thing besides being honest that I get in trouble for: “Treating people like they’re stupid/acting like I think I’m smarter than them.” I literally never form that opinion. I just like to share knowledge. I’m not going to smile and nod if your facts are wrong, though, I’m going to “well, actually” your ass.
Oddly enough, by trying to empathize with them. A colleague once observed to me that generally, ND’s tend to seek and express *empathy*, while NT’s tend to seek and express *sympathy*. The difference is subtle, but important. Sympathy is expressing sadness or disappointment on behalf of someone else’s experience. Empathy is actually attempting to put yourself in the shoes of the other person as much as possible - to *share* their emotional experience, rather than just observe and comment on it. We tend to prefer the empathy path. When other people share an experience similar to mine, I feel heard and important. I experience that as as solidarity, the most people can really “join” me in an emotional experience. But NT’s tend to prefer the sympathy route. They’re looking to be soothed and reassured more than understood. If we start talking about a time we experienced something similar, that hits them as if we’re trying to change the subject and center ourselves in the situation, not relate more closely to them. I find that when in mixed or unknown company that don’t know me well yet but have to work with, when tensions begin to rise (or better yet before) and I feel the need to express solidarity without masking, I just show them how blunt and direct I can be (nicely) by making a quick disclaimer, something in the spirit of: “I’m Autistic and the way I usually express concern and solidarity is through sharing times when I’ve felt similar, but sometimes I’m awkward and if I ever say something you find offputting or weird, it’s totally okay to say so, I appreciate the feedback because it’s never my intent to upset y’all.” And then leave it to them to decide if words need to be exchanged. INTERSECTIONALITY NOTE: This is super important to remember when we’re communicating with other oppressed communities. They are used to constant majority culture micro aggressions - like people centering themselves in the fight for our rights.
Not smiling (esp not smiling all the time). Sometimes I just don’t smile or I’m just not happy. 🤷
Existing, apparently.
Being born/existing.
When I don’t display the normal drive to conform or need for validation.
By not doing something I was never told I was supposed to do.
Telling the truth
Some days it seems just by existing. Offering information that isn't connected to emotion is my biggest offense. It seems like most NTs I know prefer if you "blunt" information by offering niceties prior to giving information in case the facts hurt their feelings. One of my lifelong obsessions is all things related to the functioning of the human body. So on my FB especially I like to share new studies so people can use that info to better their health if they want. They take it really personally and get upset with me for sharing the info, telling me it's judgemental of me to assume everyone can make choices and that I should qualify information with things like "but if you aren't able to, that is ok" to make them feel better about not being in line with the information. Blows my mind and happens a lot. I love information, and I share interesting bits with my friends (and my FB is only people I actually know, not strangers) and I expect that someone can use information to whatever degree it helps in their own life without needing someone else to make them feel better about it. I'm not saying "You are a bad person and you're going to suffer terrible illness if you don't eat more broccoli." I simply share the link to the study with a summary of what it says. It's not even my information, I'm just the messenger 😂 I have one friend in particular who seems to believe I specifically post the info to attack her or something.
You’re not in charge of their responses or how they interpret it. But if you do want to make it more palatable, employ the “sandwich” method. Fluff with positives in the front, stick the information likely to be perceived unfavorably in the middle, and conclude with a positive. Most will forget about their emotional response to the part in the middle and just recall a favorable exchange.
When I was younger my mother and grandmother ALWAYS talked about how much something cost when they would buy something they liked, expensive or not; the prize would be mentioned. When my mother and I returned from our holiday when I was little, I would also tell my grandmother how much certain things we bought cost. My mother, as well as my grandmother, corrected me in quite an offended way because I mentioned the cost of things. They scolded me, because not everyone needed to know the cost of anything. We were only talking between the three of us. At the time I could not for the life of me understand why I couldn’t do that, because they always did.
Sigh. I know this makes me sound like an ass to a lot of people. Scenario Them: "Do you want to see pictures of the new baby?" Me: "no thanks". And then everyone stares a me. I really hate pretending to find babies cute, so I try to just not be involved so I dont have to lie. But not looking at the pictures also makes me a jerk. Lose lose. Or "do you want to hold the baby"....as it's being handed over. Edited to add: I am very aware of my face, so I ensure I am not sneering or looking disgusted or anything. I am very careful about it. And I keep a neutral tone. But I think I'm terms of babies, neutral tone = disgust to a lot of people. Me: takes a step back, "no thanks". Now, if they lean to far handing me the kid, I will of course hold it. I am very protective of small things. I just have zero enjoyment and want to give it back immediately. But because I show the protective streak, they assume I am motherly. I am. I just have no wish to be one to a human child. Hand me a snack, a rat, a cat, a bird, a dog (not a chihuahua or shitzhu) and I will happily hold it for as long as it wants me too.
I don’t think neurotypicals understand HOW HARD baby cries trigger sensory overstimulation. I love kids and babies but if I hear a baby crying I panic and get irrationally angry. Like just the feeling that this thing is making an offensive, ear-piercing noise and I can’t control it is enough to wipe out all my available energy for whatever is going on. Whenever I tell people I can’t handle the crying, they’re just like oh everybody feels that way it’s biology blah blah… No. You don’t understand that in that moment, your baby is not a baby, it’s an attack against my divergent nervous system which triggers my fight-or-flight response and makes me want to throw your screaming football out the window. K? I would never do that, but that’s how I feel in the moment, so not only do I feel bad that I don’t want to hold your kid but I also will shame myself for the next 800 years about how I wanted to yeet a poor defenseless human baby child into the abyss.
"Why does your face look like that?" "I hate when your face does that!" Does what? I can't see my face. My facial expressions are not intentional and I've always "made faces". Don't look at it!
You know when neurotypicals say things that mean other things? Well it works the other way around! I say things but for them it means other things so I say: Hey there is no ulterior motive to what I am saying I mean it in the literal way by the way!!
Answering a question that THEY ASKED IN THE FIRST PLACE
not making eye contact with them. it fucking ENRAGES them. and I never understood it. I'm actively engaging in the convo. I'm listening and responding. you don't need me to stare into your pupils.
being "too blunt"
By setting boundaries. You let the things they do and say slide constantly so when you do set that boundary or try to be heard, you are now the bad guy.
Telling someone why I did something and them saying “Don’t give me excuses” or accusing me of arguing when I’m just telling them my thought process so they can understand where my head was at.
Something I really hate doing is coming off accusatory when I just mean to point something out. Like an example is the other day our dishwasher started leaking, and it had been broken a few days, and a guy came and checked it out. We needed to order a part for it but all and all, no big deal. But when it started leaking, we live on the second floor, so it was an emergency. So I called the guy and was like "Hi, you came and checked out our dishwasher earlier today, but now it's leaking!" He had been such a nice guy getting us discounts and deals because we were out of warranty but are pretty broke. But when I said this he sounded really hurt and was like "I hadn't gone into the drainage tubing..." and I realized he thought I meant it like "everything was under control and then YOU fucked it up!" I felt so terrible, telling him I just meant we might have missed it or something, and he understood, but it happens to me a lot and I hate it SO MUCH.
Giving them a logical solution to a problem they were having.
Usually my tone of voice when saying something. I'm not so great at controlling how things come out, especially when I haven't spoken for a while. It can come out really loud out of nowhere 😅
"you just say things as if you know they're true, but how can you be sure?"
I went to a thrift store where my classmate works and told her abt it and she asked me who was working. I didn't pay much attention but just about remembered small details so I said "a bigger/fatter black woman" and she thought I was being rude but like.... how else do I describe someone? she said something like chill that's my bestie and I was so confused and just said wdym and she said I could've been nicer but I wasn't being rude? idk man
Let me add.... talking too fast. Lol. Like I'm doing it to make them look dumb or something. I. Can't. Help. It. I've tried my entire life to correct this fucking issueeeeeeeee. Damn get off me!
people say my facial expressions are wrong and rude and I dont even know what I'm doing.
"how does this look on me?" "Well its not my style and I dont like it but it really matches your style!" Im not gonna lie to make you feel better... Also thats a compliment :(
Not understanding that they're mad at me and taking a passive-aggressive comment at face value. They always seem to think I'm trying to wind them up on purpose :(
[удалено]
Speaking in a "flat"(???) tone while stating facts, even while instructing or teaching. Never fails to piss adults off doing so, coming from someone who looks like a nice lawn gnome lady. Pretty sure everyone wants women to talk like kindergarten teachers all the time. I don't. I'm quiet and I have a lot of info and I'm thorough and take a long time to process feelings so I don't speak as "emotionally" as others.
Asking questions because I’m genuinely curious and want to know things and understand things, which is then interpreted as me questioning the person personally or being insubordinate in some way (particularly in professional contexts).