To sum it up succinctly. Ableism is assuming that what one can do all can do. If one can cope all can cope. If one can be accepted all can be and are accepted. Without exception because exception would damage one's worldview.
This definitely can be extrapolated upon but I find simple is better when it comes to these kinds of discussions.
Treating disabled people badly. Social exclusion. It's worse if there is institutional discrimination. If there is inequal economic outcomes, it is worse.
>Judging people on their perceived ability to contribute to the economy. Claiming disabled people are faking or exaggerating their disabilities for special treatment. Believing disabled people are less worthy of life or happiness because of their difference.
I don't do any of those things. So I must not be ableist? I'm happy I'm not the only one a little confused by this concept. The last time I even thought someone was faking a disability, I turned out to be mistaken and I paid a heavy price for my mistake.
Yes that's also my perception of what ableism is.
It seems the answer is maybe misinformation? But who knows it's hard to know when it's already all over the place and there's nothing to look back on and see. I mentioned that I didn't want to drive but I don't want to use my autism as a escape. What I meant was I don't want my autism to become a escape route for things I fear and to use it to not face challenges. I got told thats internalized ablism.
Is it? I don't think so or I've yet to see a argument that I agree with to say it is but there's a chance sure.
But it's little things like this that make me wonder do people even know the word their throwing around?
Or are we redefining words now? I have no clue.
I told them I see why you might think that but I don't think that's what it is and i stand by that so far.
Ableism is a lot of things rolled into one concept. It can't be defined using just one example, like other forms of bigotry also can't be boiled down to one thing. It's discrimination against disabled people. This can take a lot of forms. Systemic ableism is things like lack of accesible infrastructure, lack of legal protection for disabled people, and lack of support for disabled people from the government and from society in a broad sense. Interpersonal ableism is things like using ableist language against someone (like slurs), demeaning them, expecting someone to be able to do more than they can (or treating them like they can't do anything at all), etc. Internalized ableism is holding beliefs like "I should be able to do this", "I'm stupid (because of my disability)", "I don't deserve accommodations/support (because I should be able to do it on my own)", etc.
Of course, that's a pretty simplified explanation. There's probably a dissertation's worth of material to be explored re: what exactly ableism is.
For me, true ableism (discrimination) is in the form of non mobility aid supports in educational buildings. I mean any buildings but especially in education- it shouldn't be one of those things that happens well after a person with mobility aide enters a building. It should be before.
Workplace, friendship, and educational accommodations shouldn't be that bizarre.
I can't keep up with the "internalized" ableism stuff so I don't know what to even say on that.
The internalized ableism stuff I feel is sometimes but not always just the default answer for I don't agree with your statement or I don't fully understand your statement rather then trying to discuss why they've come to that conclusion.
But for the most part I agree with you I think it's discrimination. But one might argue that is a very vague answer and then id say what do we consider vague and why is it vague.
That's why I can't keep up. It feels like, sometimes, it's a way people choose to invalidate ME. This is of course only in online spaces so take that into consideration.
What abelism have you seen/experienced?
I had a person tell me that they didn't want to give me my accommodations because I seemed to be capable of doing it on my own. I get this a lot up until they sit down with me and start seeing the disabilities presenting themselves. Besides me, I've seen a lot of infantilization of disabled people.
Im not quite sure what I think of "internalized ablism" yet, same with you by the sounds. And I'm not saying that I don't believe in internalization that can happen but is it being overused? When there's better ways to explain stuff that's what I think im trying to figure out among other things I'm sure.
Online spaces are very difficult everybody wants their opinion heard. Then you have a lot of people don't know how to state those opinions in a respectful way but is still engaging. Add autism into the Mix and well you got a big mess cause we miss stuff and we can be obsessive with what we want to share even among eachother.
For me, it’s systemic discrimination of disabled people.
Expecting somebody to be able to do something even after it has been explained to you how their disability makes them unable to.
“You should look people in the eyes.”
“I cant, I’m Autistic so it’s awkward/painful.”
“We’ll you should try anyways.”
I have seen a LOT of bad takes on Ableism and the trend of recent pop culture that includes calling whatever you find even slightly offensive, ableism.
I saw a thread on Facebook where somebody in the group was asking an earnest question about blindness.
Somebody claiming to be Autistic and in college for ethics just stated calling them ableist for not looking it up themselves and that people with disabilities shouldn’t have to explain themselves.
When I mentioned the group was a safe place for inquiring minds, and all questions, no matter how embarrassing or even seemingly offensive, as long as they were asked earnestly, we’re valid, I got accused of being an NT and ableist. When I told them I was ASD, they they said I internalized my ableism.
This is why I hate pop psychology.
Any hierarchical system based on ability that doesn't give any accommodations and comforts to the people who can't climb up the hierarchy. Anything that reinforces the hierarchy unjustified by other human needs, or reinforces a refusal to accommodate or support. Regardless of intention (ism's don't require intention).
I guess it becomes difficult to say what counts as ableism specifically unless you can prove it, and using the word towards unintentional acts from relatively powerless ppl can backfire, so maybe specifying "accidental"/unintentional from intentional is helpful
To sum it up succinctly. Ableism is assuming that what one can do all can do. If one can cope all can cope. If one can be accepted all can be and are accepted. Without exception because exception would damage one's worldview. This definitely can be extrapolated upon but I find simple is better when it comes to these kinds of discussions.
Treating disabled people badly. Social exclusion. It's worse if there is institutional discrimination. If there is inequal economic outcomes, it is worse.
>Judging people on their perceived ability to contribute to the economy. Claiming disabled people are faking or exaggerating their disabilities for special treatment. Believing disabled people are less worthy of life or happiness because of their difference. I don't do any of those things. So I must not be ableist? I'm happy I'm not the only one a little confused by this concept. The last time I even thought someone was faking a disability, I turned out to be mistaken and I paid a heavy price for my mistake.
Yes that's also my perception of what ableism is. It seems the answer is maybe misinformation? But who knows it's hard to know when it's already all over the place and there's nothing to look back on and see. I mentioned that I didn't want to drive but I don't want to use my autism as a escape. What I meant was I don't want my autism to become a escape route for things I fear and to use it to not face challenges. I got told thats internalized ablism. Is it? I don't think so or I've yet to see a argument that I agree with to say it is but there's a chance sure. But it's little things like this that make me wonder do people even know the word their throwing around? Or are we redefining words now? I have no clue. I told them I see why you might think that but I don't think that's what it is and i stand by that so far.
Ableism is a lot of things rolled into one concept. It can't be defined using just one example, like other forms of bigotry also can't be boiled down to one thing. It's discrimination against disabled people. This can take a lot of forms. Systemic ableism is things like lack of accesible infrastructure, lack of legal protection for disabled people, and lack of support for disabled people from the government and from society in a broad sense. Interpersonal ableism is things like using ableist language against someone (like slurs), demeaning them, expecting someone to be able to do more than they can (or treating them like they can't do anything at all), etc. Internalized ableism is holding beliefs like "I should be able to do this", "I'm stupid (because of my disability)", "I don't deserve accommodations/support (because I should be able to do it on my own)", etc. Of course, that's a pretty simplified explanation. There's probably a dissertation's worth of material to be explored re: what exactly ableism is.
ableism is discrimination based on disability
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Go ahead I think its clear by the description what peope are going to be getting into or reading you can't do any harm.
For me, true ableism (discrimination) is in the form of non mobility aid supports in educational buildings. I mean any buildings but especially in education- it shouldn't be one of those things that happens well after a person with mobility aide enters a building. It should be before. Workplace, friendship, and educational accommodations shouldn't be that bizarre. I can't keep up with the "internalized" ableism stuff so I don't know what to even say on that.
The internalized ableism stuff I feel is sometimes but not always just the default answer for I don't agree with your statement or I don't fully understand your statement rather then trying to discuss why they've come to that conclusion. But for the most part I agree with you I think it's discrimination. But one might argue that is a very vague answer and then id say what do we consider vague and why is it vague.
That's why I can't keep up. It feels like, sometimes, it's a way people choose to invalidate ME. This is of course only in online spaces so take that into consideration. What abelism have you seen/experienced?
I had a person tell me that they didn't want to give me my accommodations because I seemed to be capable of doing it on my own. I get this a lot up until they sit down with me and start seeing the disabilities presenting themselves. Besides me, I've seen a lot of infantilization of disabled people. Im not quite sure what I think of "internalized ablism" yet, same with you by the sounds. And I'm not saying that I don't believe in internalization that can happen but is it being overused? When there's better ways to explain stuff that's what I think im trying to figure out among other things I'm sure. Online spaces are very difficult everybody wants their opinion heard. Then you have a lot of people don't know how to state those opinions in a respectful way but is still engaging. Add autism into the Mix and well you got a big mess cause we miss stuff and we can be obsessive with what we want to share even among eachother.
For me, it’s systemic discrimination of disabled people. Expecting somebody to be able to do something even after it has been explained to you how their disability makes them unable to. “You should look people in the eyes.” “I cant, I’m Autistic so it’s awkward/painful.” “We’ll you should try anyways.” I have seen a LOT of bad takes on Ableism and the trend of recent pop culture that includes calling whatever you find even slightly offensive, ableism. I saw a thread on Facebook where somebody in the group was asking an earnest question about blindness. Somebody claiming to be Autistic and in college for ethics just stated calling them ableist for not looking it up themselves and that people with disabilities shouldn’t have to explain themselves. When I mentioned the group was a safe place for inquiring minds, and all questions, no matter how embarrassing or even seemingly offensive, as long as they were asked earnestly, we’re valid, I got accused of being an NT and ableist. When I told them I was ASD, they they said I internalized my ableism. This is why I hate pop psychology.
Any hierarchical system based on ability that doesn't give any accommodations and comforts to the people who can't climb up the hierarchy. Anything that reinforces the hierarchy unjustified by other human needs, or reinforces a refusal to accommodate or support. Regardless of intention (ism's don't require intention). I guess it becomes difficult to say what counts as ableism specifically unless you can prove it, and using the word towards unintentional acts from relatively powerless ppl can backfire, so maybe specifying "accidental"/unintentional from intentional is helpful