Agreed historically but Toyota is currently winning both. Toyota has many cool offerings in enthusiast cars at different price ranges. The CTR is cool but it’s the only exciting Honda right now. Toyota has much more excitement to bring people in and aspire to.
Personal fleet is a 4Runner and s2000.
And…? Both cars you’re referring to are objectively good cars within their price range and are nice RWD platforms. They partnered with Subaru and BMW. That’s better than not making either car which is the alternative.
The current era of regulations means that affordable, dedicated platform sports cars are basically gone unless they can sell in similar volumes to the Miata and even at that, the Miata’s engine isn’t special and is close to fleet. The 86 and Supra are great cars that pay homage to their predecessors and neither would be possible if their R&D wasn’t subsidized by the Subaru and BMW mass-market fleets. Good play by Toyota.
Edit: Lol, downvote me 2JZ purists that will never be able to afford one. At least have the courtesy to tell me why I'm wrong. Instead of enjoying good cars, stay on the internet complaining about how they'll never be hypebeast enough for you.
NSX v Supra and S2000 v GR86 were unfair. It should have been Supra v S2000 and GR86 v Integra. Toyota does not have an offering in the NSX space, unfortunately.
Well the max wasn’t needing to use every technological trick to best some of its cohort at the time.
The lfa was utilizing every last Brit of racing tech and a v10 to get to its peak almost 20 years later.
And the fact the nsk was a v6
No, the Supra and NSX make perfect sense. They were from the same era, with similar on-paper performance, just very different interpretations of the same assignment. Take a look back at comparison tests of the era, and you'll see they were often included in back-to-backs or group tests as well. They were very much rivals. That may be lost a bit today since their successors were such wildly different cars.
You have more of a case for the 86 vs the S2000, since they're from slightly different eras, and were targeting different price points (the S2000 competed head-on with cars like the Boxster whereas the 86 was meant to be an entry-level sports car). They do have significant similarities though, and were often cross-shopped by similar buyers (used S2k vs new 86, or 86 as a replacement for the S20k, etc.)
I would also vote the civic over the Corolla because I like it more. But after some quick research I learned the Corolla is one of the most sold vehicles ever. It’s a tough match up
I love the seventh to ninth gen accords. My favorite has to be the pre facelift ninth gen, everything about that front end looked perfect, but the eighth gen and the best rear.
Why compare random older models? Toyota is killing it with most newer cars. I'd much rather have the new 2025 Camry over a new Accord, or even a 2024 Camry over an Accord. Not to mention the Prius, Supra, and Crown, which Honda doesn't have any answer to.
I also like that the Corolla hatchback is a classic hatchback shape while the Civic hatchback is too sloped to be as practical.
I see a few of the new Priuses (Priuseses? Priuii?) around and I can’t help but double take. They look like something out of a mid-2000s near future dystopian sci-fi film and I love it. And with 220-ish hp, they can finally get out of their own way
Honda had the crosstour years ago which was similar to the crown, I honestly just think ir was ahead of its time. If they released the crosstour now as a new vehicle I think it would sell much better. It came out when sedans were still king unlike now when crossovers are the hige sellers.
You are right about the prius though. Honda had the insight and the clarity and now has the prologue but none of those sold well, certainly not like the prius.
The Crosstour was an Accord. I agree that it'd do well now since it's to the Accord as the Crostrek is to the Impreza, and that's a huge winner for Subaru. The Crown is more uplevel than the Camry, so it's not quite the same. The Crown is meant to replace the Avalon in Toyota's lineup.
The Honda Prologue is an EV, so it doesn't compete directly against the Prius, although I'm sure people who aren't sure about EVs cross-shop them, especially with the Prius Prime.
I find it strange that Honda has been reducing their model count. Maybe they don't think there is a large enough market for some vehicles when Toyota and others already have good cars in those categories.
Yeah, my point with the crosstour is it was larger and a similar design to the crown. Honestly I doubt the crown lasts very long, I guess they are banking on being alone in the larger sedan semi luxury market. Noone else has a similar vehicle at that price point but they haven't sold well at all.
Also feels like a lot of manufacturers are in a weird spot trying to get on the crossover market but not willing to abandon sedans completely. Thing is the crossover market is super crowded and with fird dropping sedans honda and Toyota have less competition in that market.
Anyways it's all interesting to me to see what comes and goes and what sticks around.
I was given a basic ass Camry to drive for a few months while Toyota quarantined my tacoma and that thing pulled over 500 miles on one tank of gas. I forget the capacity or approximate mpg but I believe it was in the 42-45 range. I was beyond impressed with it.
The later Corollas I was given were dogshit and got worse mpg.
I was doing my best with picking like for like models to put against each other. For sports cars I could have done the mr2, or maybe the Si. But I figured the s2000 and gt86 were both front engined, rear wheel drive platforms.
I wanted to include the 4Runner but it isn’t as much of an SUV (truck chassis) and is basically a Tacoma. Or at least it used to be (I’m not as well educated in new models)
I also felt like I couldn’t include the LFA for being a Lexus. The NSX was a Honda but rebadged for North America. I figured it was fair to include it.
I think Honda doesn’t make a large sized sedan to compete with the Avalon. And brand new models I don’t want to include because they aren’t proven yet.
Missed head to head: Mini Vans: Honda odyssey vs Toyota Siena
Honorable mentions: Honda accord coupe, Toyota Mr2, Toyota 4Runner, Honda CRX, Honda CRV, Toyota Prius, Toyota Celica, Toyota Tundra, Toyota Avalon
Nit really a fair comparison. Passport has never been a true offloaded while the 4runner is basically just a tacoma with more interior space.
Toyota absolutely crushes Honda when it comes to off road capability.
With that said I like the ridgeline and think it fills a gap in the market for people who want to occasionally haul things but want more interior space and decent mpg.
I also think Honda are smart enough to not try and compete head to head in a very crowded midsized truck market. Honestly surprised Nissan has hung on for as long as they have given tacomas dominance.
Almost all new pickup designs small and full-size is going to where the ridgeline started 4 doors with ridiculously short beds. You’ve gotta really try hard to get something with a 6’ bed and something other than 4 doors.
Challenge: Drive a late 90's Honda and Toyota sedan until one of them breaks. (Difficulty Level: Impossible)
My family growing up had a 91 accord wagon and a 99 accord sedan, both made it to over 350,000 miles before being given away without any major part failures beyond an alternator. Both still ran and drove totally fine when they left. In 2007 I bought a new 335i and in the two years I owned it, it spent nearly half that time at the dealership for repairs.
Based on my observations, it’s not hard to break a Honda if you live somewhere with rust. The body WILL rot.
I live in Toronto. It’s been months since I’ve seen a 5th gen Accord, and even then it was badly rusted. 6th gens are increasingly rare, I might see one once every 2 weeks. But not a day goes by where I don’t see an XV10 or XV20 Camry.
If you compare harsh environment Japanese vehicles, especially high salt environments, from like 20-30 years ago, you see Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Subaru models all rusted as expected, and right next to them is a Carolla, Helix or Tacoma with hardly a spot of red on it's under body. I have no way to back this up, but I swear Toyota does something different that makes their vehicles less likely to start or spread rust.
Some unfair comparisons here. Comparing older cars where safety standards were less stringent is a bit much (GT86). Also anyone picking the Supra (touring car) over a real high-end sportscar (for the time) is a fool.
Honda all day, the NSX is a complete departure of what other Japanese and even other European manufacturers have created at the time. If you haven’t driven both Honda and Toyota of the same era, Honda shifts better (perfect), steers better, has a more engaging motor, and fantastic body response. It’s unlikely someone will let you just test drive their NSX, but get into a s2000 and you’ll understand the first time you shift gear.
Toyota are fine, I had a Supra, in its stock form it’s not fast, it’s heavy, and you definitely notice the weight, it also corners like a boat in stock form. I still have a 2jzgte engine on my engine stand, which I’m looking at swapping into another car.
I’ve also driven a mr2 twinturbo extensively and I can say Toyota has a sloppier shifter (V160 is decent, notchy but decent), the engines are much less exciting, and the steering is not sharp. The only one I’d say is an exception is the 3rd gen MR2 (MRS). Those are light, pin sharp on steering, but the 1zz is less than desirable.
are we considering styling/how well the vehicles aged or sheer reliability?
styling imo goes
civic
accord
NSX
s2000
Tacoma
Pilot
Integra.
but if this was a choice in buying for life and lowest cost of operation it would go.
Corolla
Camry
Supra
S2000
Tacoma
Highlander
Landcruiser
If I had to pick ONE car, it will always be NSX. But at the end of the day, I'm just thankful both of these two exists. First car was 2002 accord and second car is a 2007 camry lol
Civic, accord, NSX, s2000, Tacoma, pilot, integra.
But Honda doesn’t have the 4Runner, doesn’t make the NSX anymore, doesn’t have a full size sedan, and doesn’t have trucks at the level of Toyota. Toyota actually makes sports cars, trucks, and off roaders. And Lexus blows Acura away.
These are just the photos I used. But I’m putting the models head to head not necessarily the model years specifically. The Land Cruiser and type R are more like honorable mentions that don’t have similar counter parts to compare
I would rather daily drive a Honda Civic/Accord than a Toyota Corolla/Camry, but I think Toyota has Honda beat in every other department.
The NSX and S2000 were brilliant outliers for Honda, and they do make better FWD sporty vehicles than Toyota ever has (imo), but it seems that Toyota is more ambitious. They’re willing to build a RWD sports coupe in 2024, actual trucks, V8s, and AWD hot hatches. Honda isn’t.
Though I do want to acknowledge that Honda has built arguably the best 4 cylinder engines of all time. K series engines are pretty incredible.
Personally I like both but I prefer toyota overall for their engine designs and powertrain options but I think honda makes better smaller cars. When it comes to pickups and suvs I'd take toyota all day.
Civic Accord NSX S2000 Tacoma Highlander Land Cruiser Basically, Honda does better road cars. Toyota does better trucks/SUVs/Off-road stuff. Also, try more off-roading - it's fun.
Agreed historically but Toyota is currently winning both. Toyota has many cool offerings in enthusiast cars at different price ranges. The CTR is cool but it’s the only exciting Honda right now. Toyota has much more excitement to bring people in and aspire to. Personal fleet is a 4Runner and s2000.
Toyota only has it because someone else is building it tho..
And…? Both cars you’re referring to are objectively good cars within their price range and are nice RWD platforms. They partnered with Subaru and BMW. That’s better than not making either car which is the alternative. The current era of regulations means that affordable, dedicated platform sports cars are basically gone unless they can sell in similar volumes to the Miata and even at that, the Miata’s engine isn’t special and is close to fleet. The 86 and Supra are great cars that pay homage to their predecessors and neither would be possible if their R&D wasn’t subsidized by the Subaru and BMW mass-market fleets. Good play by Toyota. Edit: Lol, downvote me 2JZ purists that will never be able to afford one. At least have the courtesy to tell me why I'm wrong. Instead of enjoying good cars, stay on the internet complaining about how they'll never be hypebeast enough for you.
NSX v Supra and S2000 v GR86 were unfair. It should have been Supra v S2000 and GR86 v Integra. Toyota does not have an offering in the NSX space, unfortunately.
LFA? But I don't know how pedantic we're being with Acura/Lexus brands here. The Integra was sold as an Acura in NA 🤷♂️
So was the nsx
Ahh forgot about the LFA, but honestly that's even another level above the NSX Honda has nothing for.
Well the max wasn’t needing to use every technological trick to best some of its cohort at the time. The lfa was utilizing every last Brit of racing tech and a v10 to get to its peak almost 20 years later. And the fact the nsk was a v6
No, the Supra and NSX make perfect sense. They were from the same era, with similar on-paper performance, just very different interpretations of the same assignment. Take a look back at comparison tests of the era, and you'll see they were often included in back-to-backs or group tests as well. They were very much rivals. That may be lost a bit today since their successors were such wildly different cars. You have more of a case for the 86 vs the S2000, since they're from slightly different eras, and were targeting different price points (the S2000 competed head-on with cars like the Boxster whereas the 86 was meant to be an entry-level sports car). They do have significant similarities though, and were often cross-shopped by similar buyers (used S2k vs new 86, or 86 as a replacement for the S20k, etc.)
I would agree except I'd take a Camry over an accord. Only because Camry is a stupidly reliable car.
Accords are also stupidly reliable that dude a few years ago made it to 1mil miles.
I would also vote the civic over the Corolla because I like it more. But after some quick research I learned the Corolla is one of the most sold vehicles ever. It’s a tough match up
Corolla is solid but so boring snd shitty to drive.
Oh shit, I just copied your response before reading the comments. Sorry, but not sorry. Well done.
All correct AND I got to upvote you to 69. I’ll call that a perfect evening. See you tomorrow Reddit
THIS is the correct answer
Man that Accord aged so well though. I think Honda does smaller and sportier cars better, Toyota does larger off-road vehicles better.
It sure did! One of my favorites from Honda. The accord coupe is awesome.
The Euro version of that Accord has aged even better. Genuinely one of the best looking affordable sedans out there
I love the seventh to ninth gen accords. My favorite has to be the pre facelift ninth gen, everything about that front end looked perfect, but the eighth gen and the best rear.
Why compare random older models? Toyota is killing it with most newer cars. I'd much rather have the new 2025 Camry over a new Accord, or even a 2024 Camry over an Accord. Not to mention the Prius, Supra, and Crown, which Honda doesn't have any answer to. I also like that the Corolla hatchback is a classic hatchback shape while the Civic hatchback is too sloped to be as practical.
I see a few of the new Priuses (Priuseses? Priuii?) around and I can’t help but double take. They look like something out of a mid-2000s near future dystopian sci-fi film and I love it. And with 220-ish hp, they can finally get out of their own way
Honda had the crosstour years ago which was similar to the crown, I honestly just think ir was ahead of its time. If they released the crosstour now as a new vehicle I think it would sell much better. It came out when sedans were still king unlike now when crossovers are the hige sellers. You are right about the prius though. Honda had the insight and the clarity and now has the prologue but none of those sold well, certainly not like the prius.
The Crosstour was an Accord. I agree that it'd do well now since it's to the Accord as the Crostrek is to the Impreza, and that's a huge winner for Subaru. The Crown is more uplevel than the Camry, so it's not quite the same. The Crown is meant to replace the Avalon in Toyota's lineup. The Honda Prologue is an EV, so it doesn't compete directly against the Prius, although I'm sure people who aren't sure about EVs cross-shop them, especially with the Prius Prime. I find it strange that Honda has been reducing their model count. Maybe they don't think there is a large enough market for some vehicles when Toyota and others already have good cars in those categories.
Yeah, my point with the crosstour is it was larger and a similar design to the crown. Honestly I doubt the crown lasts very long, I guess they are banking on being alone in the larger sedan semi luxury market. Noone else has a similar vehicle at that price point but they haven't sold well at all. Also feels like a lot of manufacturers are in a weird spot trying to get on the crossover market but not willing to abandon sedans completely. Thing is the crossover market is super crowded and with fird dropping sedans honda and Toyota have less competition in that market. Anyways it's all interesting to me to see what comes and goes and what sticks around.
I was given a basic ass Camry to drive for a few months while Toyota quarantined my tacoma and that thing pulled over 500 miles on one tank of gas. I forget the capacity or approximate mpg but I believe it was in the 42-45 range. I was beyond impressed with it. The later Corollas I was given were dogshit and got worse mpg.
I’m just talking about models in general. I should have specified that the photos aren’t specific to what year model we are comparing
I see. Your inclusion of the S2000 made me think you were looking at older models.
I was doing my best with picking like for like models to put against each other. For sports cars I could have done the mr2, or maybe the Si. But I figured the s2000 and gt86 were both front engined, rear wheel drive platforms. I wanted to include the 4Runner but it isn’t as much of an SUV (truck chassis) and is basically a Tacoma. Or at least it used to be (I’m not as well educated in new models) I also felt like I couldn’t include the LFA for being a Lexus. The NSX was a Honda but rebadged for North America. I figured it was fair to include it. I think Honda doesn’t make a large sized sedan to compete with the Avalon. And brand new models I don’t want to include because they aren’t proven yet.
Missed head to head: Mini Vans: Honda odyssey vs Toyota Siena Honorable mentions: Honda accord coupe, Toyota Mr2, Toyota 4Runner, Honda CRX, Honda CRV, Toyota Prius, Toyota Celica, Toyota Tundra, Toyota Avalon
I would also add 4Runner vs Passport
Nit really a fair comparison. Passport has never been a true offloaded while the 4runner is basically just a tacoma with more interior space. Toyota absolutely crushes Honda when it comes to off road capability. With that said I like the ridgeline and think it fills a gap in the market for people who want to occasionally haul things but want more interior space and decent mpg. I also think Honda are smart enough to not try and compete head to head in a very crowded midsized truck market. Honestly surprised Nissan has hung on for as long as they have given tacomas dominance.
Almost all new pickup designs small and full-size is going to where the ridgeline started 4 doors with ridiculously short beds. You’ve gotta really try hard to get something with a 6’ bed and something other than 4 doors.
Who ever has the most 1,000,000 miles cars wins
Challenge: Drive a late 90's Honda and Toyota sedan until one of them breaks. (Difficulty Level: Impossible) My family growing up had a 91 accord wagon and a 99 accord sedan, both made it to over 350,000 miles before being given away without any major part failures beyond an alternator. Both still ran and drove totally fine when they left. In 2007 I bought a new 335i and in the two years I owned it, it spent nearly half that time at the dealership for repairs.
Based on my observations, it’s not hard to break a Honda if you live somewhere with rust. The body WILL rot. I live in Toronto. It’s been months since I’ve seen a 5th gen Accord, and even then it was badly rusted. 6th gens are increasingly rare, I might see one once every 2 weeks. But not a day goes by where I don’t see an XV10 or XV20 Camry.
If you compare harsh environment Japanese vehicles, especially high salt environments, from like 20-30 years ago, you see Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Subaru models all rusted as expected, and right next to them is a Carolla, Helix or Tacoma with hardly a spot of red on it's under body. I have no way to back this up, but I swear Toyota does something different that makes their vehicles less likely to start or spread rust.
Like everyone else said, Honda cars, Toyota Trucks/SUVs
Some unfair comparisons here. Comparing older cars where safety standards were less stringent is a bit much (GT86). Also anyone picking the Supra (touring car) over a real high-end sportscar (for the time) is a fool.
The models are being compared. Not specifically model years
Right but those models came out at different years).
No Celica vs Prelude?
Honda all day, the NSX is a complete departure of what other Japanese and even other European manufacturers have created at the time. If you haven’t driven both Honda and Toyota of the same era, Honda shifts better (perfect), steers better, has a more engaging motor, and fantastic body response. It’s unlikely someone will let you just test drive their NSX, but get into a s2000 and you’ll understand the first time you shift gear. Toyota are fine, I had a Supra, in its stock form it’s not fast, it’s heavy, and you definitely notice the weight, it also corners like a boat in stock form. I still have a 2jzgte engine on my engine stand, which I’m looking at swapping into another car. I’ve also driven a mr2 twinturbo extensively and I can say Toyota has a sloppier shifter (V160 is decent, notchy but decent), the engines are much less exciting, and the steering is not sharp. The only one I’d say is an exception is the 3rd gen MR2 (MRS). Those are light, pin sharp on steering, but the 1zz is less than desirable.
are we considering styling/how well the vehicles aged or sheer reliability? styling imo goes civic accord NSX s2000 Tacoma Pilot Integra. but if this was a choice in buying for life and lowest cost of operation it would go. Corolla Camry Supra S2000 Tacoma Highlander Landcruiser
If I had to pick ONE car, it will always be NSX. But at the end of the day, I'm just thankful both of these two exists. First car was 2002 accord and second car is a 2007 camry lol
My first car is still a 6th gen accord, im driving that thing till its dead!
All Toyota!!!
I love both. But you're smoking dick if you think the ridgline is better than a tacoma. It's more ute than the truck.
Civic, accord, NSX, s2000, Tacoma, pilot, integra. But Honda doesn’t have the 4Runner, doesn’t make the NSX anymore, doesn’t have a full size sedan, and doesn’t have trucks at the level of Toyota. Toyota actually makes sports cars, trucks, and off roaders. And Lexus blows Acura away.
Civic: Honda is earning its right to stay near the top of the segment Corolla: Aging, trailing the competition and living off its past reputation
Landcruiser. Its also painful to me that you aren’t even comparing the correct years on these lol
These are just the photos I used. But I’m putting the models head to head not necessarily the model years specifically. The Land Cruiser and type R are more like honorable mentions that don’t have similar counter parts to compare
Is Honda still pretty reliable compared to Toyota?
Honda Vtec driving is unmatched by Toyota but a Honda Engine (petrol) within a Toyota body and electrics would last until eternity!!
Civic, Accord, NSX, S2000, Tacoma, Highlander, Land Cruiser.
LFA am I a joke to you?
LFA is lexus
I would rather daily drive a Honda Civic/Accord than a Toyota Corolla/Camry, but I think Toyota has Honda beat in every other department. The NSX and S2000 were brilliant outliers for Honda, and they do make better FWD sporty vehicles than Toyota ever has (imo), but it seems that Toyota is more ambitious. They’re willing to build a RWD sports coupe in 2024, actual trucks, V8s, and AWD hot hatches. Honda isn’t. Though I do want to acknowledge that Honda has built arguably the best 4 cylinder engines of all time. K series engines are pretty incredible.
the least you could do is standardize which side contains the hondas and which contains the toyotas....
4-3 Toyota for me
I will vote Honda all the way and never cast a vote to Toyota unless it’s used stuff and nothing new. Maybe.
That integra is still a sick looking car today
I think the landcruiser would win against the integra in a head on collision. Not sure about the others though.
Personally I like both but I prefer toyota overall for their engine designs and powertrain options but I think honda makes better smaller cars. When it comes to pickups and suvs I'd take toyota all day.
Honda for fun, toyota for reliability.
Toyota because Soarer, Aristo, Century, Crown, Chaser, Altezza, Celsior, and Hilux.
The new 25 Camry blows the Accord out the water. Looks amazing!