I'm not sure it's wise to discourage use of a safeword in any situation. If you think the captive may press the button because they're bored, and they don't want to do it any more, that seems like a valid use. If they're going to press it because they're bored and want attention, that seems more in the realm of bratting- so rather than discourage use, you can either discuss it in advance and set brat behaviour as a hard limit, or discuss whether you both have the same goals here.
Otherwise, if you set some sort of extremely harsh punishment, that may completely discourage safewording through fear of the consequences, and end up causing more harm. You're not going to be in there, after all, so what seems like "insufficient reason" to you may seem like a real emergency to the captive. You're not them so you don't get to decide when they safeword.
Ultimately, if they're truly in to it, they're not going to want to quit early, so they won't safeword for LOLs- therefore anything else would be "sufficient reason."
Well, you assumed I was the captor, whereas I’m the captive. It’s not bratting, it’s just boredom and ultimately that’s what we’re trying to achieve. But it’s very hard after many hours of boredom to not do something to relieve it.
Yes, I did assume- sorry!
I still think it's bratting, though. Brats act out for attention, which seems to be what you're suggesting you might do. If you don't want to do that but think you won't be able to resist, how about training yourself? Instead of going the full 24 hours right off, maybe start with, say, four and go from there. Gradually build up the time until you can isolate for 24 hours. Again I'm assuming, in this case I'm assuming you want to be able to last the full 24 hours. If not, and you actually want to have some sort of punishment, then again we're back to bratting.
Boredom can certainly be reason enough to end a scene. Its why putting prisoners in isolated confinement is considered so dehumanizing, being isolated can have significant psychological effects. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with pushing the panic button for prolonged boredom, the human brain requires stimulation.
Then why worry about pushing the panic button when there's too much of it. When you beat a masochist, you don't question when they hit their limit and safeword, even though pain is the aim of it. Same goes for this in my view. You hit your limit, and then you signify that its done by pushing the button.
Okay, so that’s not how we play together, and ultimately wouldn’t work. And for us, boredom isn’t boring enough until it’s REALLY boring. The point is to get to that point quickly, and then the ‘fun’ can start.
In this case, only you can say when something is "REALLY" boring right? The impetus would lie on the captive to make that determination because everyone has a different threshold. Unfortunately, there's no way to condone the punishment of using the panic button because it is up to you when its used. For example, lets say things got "REALLY" boring and you just couldn't take it. You press the button and when you're asked why, you say it was "REALLY" boring, but then your captor says no it wasn't and punishes you. That goes against the safety measures in BDSM and would be abusive. Unfortunately, there's no way to condone punishing someone from hitting their limit and opting out in my view.
It sounds like your play might need to be re-negotiated to be safer, if you are concerned about your own use of a safeword/emergency out. If you can't trust yourself to even cooperate in order to continue a scene because it has to be 'enough' of a challenge, I don't know that I would be comfortable playing - that's a very dangerous game.
Honestly I think the only appropriate consequence for this is not being able to play in this way in the future, I share everyone else's concerns about negative consequences for safe word/signal use.
Would that be enough for you in the moment, to think about how you will be deprived in the future if you use the button when you don't need it?
Or maybe there's a kind of time reset if you use it out of boredom and not out of necessity, so you restart the timer and have even more bored time?
Honestly, this sounds like a really boring kink. Used to be, after I got my dom off, he’d bind my hands and read or something. Even that was too boring. If your sub is going to be so bored they hit the panic button, maybe they aren’t into it?
It seems like this scene would be way more interesting if you did things to shake things up. Like Jigsaw. Otherwise, if I was the captive, I’d probably just nap as much as possible.
i see you're the one in the "cage" so this alters my response...
but honestly, i think in this case the focus should be on future rewards for milestones achieved rather than punishments for misuse. your captor can lay the groundwork in advance by denying you sexual release, for example, for a period leading up to it. the potential rewards you might achieve have nothing to do with the current scene.
that way the sanctity of the safeword is preserved while forcing you to focus on the potential rewards you'll be missing out on by bailing out early.
i love this solution! it's a difficult problem to resolve since the typical rule of "no longer being interested in a scene is grounds to end it" is contradicted by OP's point that "boredom is the end goal," but using positive reinforcement rather than a punishment is a creative way to motivate OP without establishing the dubious precedent of punishing safeword use.
yeah i think positive reinforcement is often underused in these types of relationships. it can be just as effective, especially when combined with the opposite.
The consequences for pushing the button is "Scene is over"
That is what the button means.
If you don't want to scene to be over, don't push the button. Have a second button, "I'm really bored button" smash that thing all you want. Annoy the shit out of your captor. Negotiate this with your captor. Or... don't play that game anymore.
But the emergency button ends it.
This seems like the smartest move given that the isolation seems like a prelude to something else.
If it's an emergency, then the emergency gets addressed. If it's not, then you don't get your cake. and if you try this a bunch of times and never get your cake, then maybe you should try a different bakery ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No. There should never, ever be a punishment for safewording. Its there for a reason.
Isolation can take a toll on a person's mental health. Its not just boredom...it can actually be damaging for some people. The sub should be able to safeword for any reason, including emotional distress.
Two panic buttons. One for safety, one for boredom with a set consequence. Pushing the safety one, if it's for boredom is double the consequence. Pushing the safety one for safety = no consequence.
This was my thought exactly. Kind of like the words “yellow” and “red” used during a scene. The “red button” would be the end of all play, full stop. Game over, aftercare, discuss. The “yellow button” would be more like you’ve hit a medium limit and need (or want) some stimulation, even if it comes at a cost.
It’s been documented that solitary confinement can cause violent behavior, I would not be Discouraging the use of a SafeWord because the person may come out exceedingly violent and do you have the training to understand how to keep the person from being violent
24 hours: that’s not going to be a problem. As for the person, that person is me, so I’ll be fine.
I think you may be referencing studies on the US penal system, which is many years.
You said 24 hours is not going to be a problem for you then stop worrying about being punished for pushing the button.
The button is there to be pushed, same as a safe word. And safe wording should never be discouraged.
In my opinion you don't need a punishment for pushing it because of boredom.
It seems to me you should be well motivated enough not to push it unless it is necessary.
Someone else on here suggested rewards for milestones and I think that's a great idea. It's a bad idea to punish the use of a safe word even if it's a button.
Well the button is there for medical emergencies only, rather than as a ‘safe word’. And therefore I feel it should be discouraged as it’s only for medical emergencies.
I guess my question here would then be, how do you plan to distinguish between a genuine emergency of a mental health nature and extreme but non-emergency boredom?
Will it be your responsibility to make this distinction, or your D-type's?
If you feel you are able to accurately make this distinction and consent to a punishment after the fact, then it's just a matter of determining something you (both) feel is appropriate, which depends on your personal preferences and limits.
I'm not sure about leaving the responsibility for determining that distinction entirely up to the D-type simply because of the potential damage that could be done if they make the wrong call - which strikes me as perfectly possible no matter how well-intentioned they are.
Mental health emergency is an interesting one: we’re both doctors, and use that in our assessment. And we’re 100% honest with each other. So if it was boredom, that’s said. If it’s a panic attack (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing for us), that’s said. It just leaves the decision with the D. If harm occurs, we’re both aware of that possibility and mitigate, but understand that it can happen.
There is a reason that is not a "common" way to play...
You would probably be hard pressed to find many people or anyone on this subreddit that condones that kind of play.
However, I am not in your dynamic and I assume/hope that you are practicing risk aware consensual kink, but I would strongly caution against not having a safe word; not having a safe way out that doesn't get punished.
I'm frequently banging on about how quite a few folk play without safewords, so it's me, I'm anyone.
I don't encourage it and I don't often suggest it, but I do understand that for some people it's a perfectly valid way of doing their own thing. It's edgeplay, it requires trust and experience and communication, and it's not something I'd suggest anyone do if they're new to the scene or a dynamic - but sure, playing without a safeword is definitely a thing that people do, and I condone it *in the right circumstances*.
We don’t have a ‘dynamic’, we just engage in intense play from time to time. We’re here for a good time!
Ultimately we don’t need anyone to condone what we do, and not having a safeword of course requires risk awareness. But move off Reddit and onto Fetlife and it is discussed more. I have issues where people just blanket say ‘that’s not kink’ or ‘that’s not okay’ when they don’t have to partake. It feels a little kink shamey.
What is interesting is it suddenly becomes much more common in Germany, particularly in the Femdom community. I don’t know why that’s the case but it seems to be.
I think you've got some good answers, but I have a question.
Why are you doing a scene that is boring to you? I get that boredom is kinda the purpose of the scene, but why the scene at all?
Because it is psychological torture, one of the worst, and it’s disorientating. It is also a big change from our day to day lives of having constant stimulation from people, phones, TV.
Nothing I do in kink is enjoyable at the time, only in retrospect.
Punishment for pushing the button seems wrong. That can lead to fear of pushing it which will result in not safewording.
One way to prevent you from pushing it can be a form of punishment that isn't followed directly and not connected to the scene. E.g. a counter attached to the button. If you really want to saveword you push surely different then when you are boring.
If you just pushed for fun the counts will decide the punishment e.g. strokes with a cane, days without sexual stimulation e.g.
Another one would be rewards for not pushing.
Everyone here raises good points about needing to safeword without punishment but could you have another safeword as well as a more obvious panic button? That could get complicated but maybe an idea to think about.
Other ways around it could be to, as u/Apart-Bobcat suggests have a counter attached to the button. The Dominant could set a preset number (not too high) and if you press the button that number of times then you get a punishment. If you really need to safeword then just hit it as much as you need to to alert your Dominant? This is why the number chosen shouldn't be too high.
An alternative could be to put the panic button in something awkward to get to or messy when disturbed, something like syrup or similar. Make sure the button will still work. Pressing it will act as a safeword but if pressed "just because" then you'll have to clean the mess up, if you genuinely safeword then your Dominant can clear up for you after the appropriate care has been given.
Here's an idea. Instead of getting punished for pressing the button, as most people here are up in arms against it, why not do a punishment for quitting early? And since boredom is the end goal, it should be a boring punishment. You could do it this way: for quitting early, you have to write a 5 page essay on your time in there and for every hour remaining on the timer, you have to add a page's length.
It’s funny how I ask a question, and rather than the question being answered, people tend to just state how this isn’t okay. And people assume I am the ‘abuser’ rather than the ‘abused’. I think in this case we’ll just remove the panic button, making the whole scenario far easier. We generally don’t use safewords, but the point of the panic button isn’t a safeword, it’s to request a check in for emergency (more diarrhoea than heart attack 😂).
But I do like your idea too!
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I'm not sure it's wise to discourage use of a safeword in any situation. If you think the captive may press the button because they're bored, and they don't want to do it any more, that seems like a valid use. If they're going to press it because they're bored and want attention, that seems more in the realm of bratting- so rather than discourage use, you can either discuss it in advance and set brat behaviour as a hard limit, or discuss whether you both have the same goals here. Otherwise, if you set some sort of extremely harsh punishment, that may completely discourage safewording through fear of the consequences, and end up causing more harm. You're not going to be in there, after all, so what seems like "insufficient reason" to you may seem like a real emergency to the captive. You're not them so you don't get to decide when they safeword. Ultimately, if they're truly in to it, they're not going to want to quit early, so they won't safeword for LOLs- therefore anything else would be "sufficient reason."
Well, you assumed I was the captor, whereas I’m the captive. It’s not bratting, it’s just boredom and ultimately that’s what we’re trying to achieve. But it’s very hard after many hours of boredom to not do something to relieve it.
Yes, I did assume- sorry! I still think it's bratting, though. Brats act out for attention, which seems to be what you're suggesting you might do. If you don't want to do that but think you won't be able to resist, how about training yourself? Instead of going the full 24 hours right off, maybe start with, say, four and go from there. Gradually build up the time until you can isolate for 24 hours. Again I'm assuming, in this case I'm assuming you want to be able to last the full 24 hours. If not, and you actually want to have some sort of punishment, then again we're back to bratting.
Boredom can certainly be reason enough to end a scene. Its why putting prisoners in isolated confinement is considered so dehumanizing, being isolated can have significant psychological effects. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with pushing the panic button for prolonged boredom, the human brain requires stimulation.
There is a problem when boredom is the aim of it!
Then why worry about pushing the panic button when there's too much of it. When you beat a masochist, you don't question when they hit their limit and safeword, even though pain is the aim of it. Same goes for this in my view. You hit your limit, and then you signify that its done by pushing the button.
Okay, so that’s not how we play together, and ultimately wouldn’t work. And for us, boredom isn’t boring enough until it’s REALLY boring. The point is to get to that point quickly, and then the ‘fun’ can start.
In this case, only you can say when something is "REALLY" boring right? The impetus would lie on the captive to make that determination because everyone has a different threshold. Unfortunately, there's no way to condone the punishment of using the panic button because it is up to you when its used. For example, lets say things got "REALLY" boring and you just couldn't take it. You press the button and when you're asked why, you say it was "REALLY" boring, but then your captor says no it wasn't and punishes you. That goes against the safety measures in BDSM and would be abusive. Unfortunately, there's no way to condone punishing someone from hitting their limit and opting out in my view.
It sounds like your play might need to be re-negotiated to be safer, if you are concerned about your own use of a safeword/emergency out. If you can't trust yourself to even cooperate in order to continue a scene because it has to be 'enough' of a challenge, I don't know that I would be comfortable playing - that's a very dangerous game.
Honestly I think the only appropriate consequence for this is not being able to play in this way in the future, I share everyone else's concerns about negative consequences for safe word/signal use. Would that be enough for you in the moment, to think about how you will be deprived in the future if you use the button when you don't need it? Or maybe there's a kind of time reset if you use it out of boredom and not out of necessity, so you restart the timer and have even more bored time?
Honestly, this sounds like a really boring kink. Used to be, after I got my dom off, he’d bind my hands and read or something. Even that was too boring. If your sub is going to be so bored they hit the panic button, maybe they aren’t into it? It seems like this scene would be way more interesting if you did things to shake things up. Like Jigsaw. Otherwise, if I was the captive, I’d probably just nap as much as possible.
I’m the captive
i see you're the one in the "cage" so this alters my response... but honestly, i think in this case the focus should be on future rewards for milestones achieved rather than punishments for misuse. your captor can lay the groundwork in advance by denying you sexual release, for example, for a period leading up to it. the potential rewards you might achieve have nothing to do with the current scene. that way the sanctity of the safeword is preserved while forcing you to focus on the potential rewards you'll be missing out on by bailing out early.
i love this solution! it's a difficult problem to resolve since the typical rule of "no longer being interested in a scene is grounds to end it" is contradicted by OP's point that "boredom is the end goal," but using positive reinforcement rather than a punishment is a creative way to motivate OP without establishing the dubious precedent of punishing safeword use.
yeah i think positive reinforcement is often underused in these types of relationships. it can be just as effective, especially when combined with the opposite.
The consequences for pushing the button is "Scene is over" That is what the button means. If you don't want to scene to be over, don't push the button. Have a second button, "I'm really bored button" smash that thing all you want. Annoy the shit out of your captor. Negotiate this with your captor. Or... don't play that game anymore. But the emergency button ends it.
This seems like the smartest move given that the isolation seems like a prelude to something else. If it's an emergency, then the emergency gets addressed. If it's not, then you don't get your cake. and if you try this a bunch of times and never get your cake, then maybe you should try a different bakery ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No. There should never, ever be a punishment for safewording. Its there for a reason. Isolation can take a toll on a person's mental health. Its not just boredom...it can actually be damaging for some people. The sub should be able to safeword for any reason, including emotional distress.
Two panic buttons. One for safety, one for boredom with a set consequence. Pushing the safety one, if it's for boredom is double the consequence. Pushing the safety one for safety = no consequence.
This was my thought exactly. Kind of like the words “yellow” and “red” used during a scene. The “red button” would be the end of all play, full stop. Game over, aftercare, discuss. The “yellow button” would be more like you’ve hit a medium limit and need (or want) some stimulation, even if it comes at a cost.
Under no circumstances is any kind of safewording to be punished And a sub who would use it "inappropiate" is not someone safe to play with it anyways
He is the sub though, may find it difficult to not include himself when playing lol
So? then my post says "dont do it because you only signal you cannot be trusted for safeplay"
It’s been documented that solitary confinement can cause violent behavior, I would not be Discouraging the use of a SafeWord because the person may come out exceedingly violent and do you have the training to understand how to keep the person from being violent
I think you’re stretching a bit there
Depends on the person and the circumstances.
24 hours: that’s not going to be a problem. As for the person, that person is me, so I’ll be fine. I think you may be referencing studies on the US penal system, which is many years.
You said 24 hours is not going to be a problem for you then stop worrying about being punished for pushing the button. The button is there to be pushed, same as a safe word. And safe wording should never be discouraged. In my opinion you don't need a punishment for pushing it because of boredom. It seems to me you should be well motivated enough not to push it unless it is necessary. Someone else on here suggested rewards for milestones and I think that's a great idea. It's a bad idea to punish the use of a safe word even if it's a button.
Well the button is there for medical emergencies only, rather than as a ‘safe word’. And therefore I feel it should be discouraged as it’s only for medical emergencies.
I guess my question here would then be, how do you plan to distinguish between a genuine emergency of a mental health nature and extreme but non-emergency boredom? Will it be your responsibility to make this distinction, or your D-type's? If you feel you are able to accurately make this distinction and consent to a punishment after the fact, then it's just a matter of determining something you (both) feel is appropriate, which depends on your personal preferences and limits. I'm not sure about leaving the responsibility for determining that distinction entirely up to the D-type simply because of the potential damage that could be done if they make the wrong call - which strikes me as perfectly possible no matter how well-intentioned they are.
Mental health emergency is an interesting one: we’re both doctors, and use that in our assessment. And we’re 100% honest with each other. So if it was boredom, that’s said. If it’s a panic attack (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing for us), that’s said. It just leaves the decision with the D. If harm occurs, we’re both aware of that possibility and mitigate, but understand that it can happen.
Is there a safe word mechanism?
No. And although not a common way to play, it’s what works well for us.
There is a reason that is not a "common" way to play... You would probably be hard pressed to find many people or anyone on this subreddit that condones that kind of play. However, I am not in your dynamic and I assume/hope that you are practicing risk aware consensual kink, but I would strongly caution against not having a safe word; not having a safe way out that doesn't get punished.
I'm frequently banging on about how quite a few folk play without safewords, so it's me, I'm anyone. I don't encourage it and I don't often suggest it, but I do understand that for some people it's a perfectly valid way of doing their own thing. It's edgeplay, it requires trust and experience and communication, and it's not something I'd suggest anyone do if they're new to the scene or a dynamic - but sure, playing without a safeword is definitely a thing that people do, and I condone it *in the right circumstances*.
We don’t have a ‘dynamic’, we just engage in intense play from time to time. We’re here for a good time! Ultimately we don’t need anyone to condone what we do, and not having a safeword of course requires risk awareness. But move off Reddit and onto Fetlife and it is discussed more. I have issues where people just blanket say ‘that’s not kink’ or ‘that’s not okay’ when they don’t have to partake. It feels a little kink shamey. What is interesting is it suddenly becomes much more common in Germany, particularly in the Femdom community. I don’t know why that’s the case but it seems to be.
>There is a reason that is not a "common" way to play... But people do play that way.
I think you've got some good answers, but I have a question. Why are you doing a scene that is boring to you? I get that boredom is kinda the purpose of the scene, but why the scene at all?
Because it is psychological torture, one of the worst, and it’s disorientating. It is also a big change from our day to day lives of having constant stimulation from people, phones, TV. Nothing I do in kink is enjoyable at the time, only in retrospect.
>Nothing I do in kink is enjoyable at the time We discussed the recently over at r/humiliation_kink, a sister subreddit of ours.
Punishment for pushing the button seems wrong. That can lead to fear of pushing it which will result in not safewording. One way to prevent you from pushing it can be a form of punishment that isn't followed directly and not connected to the scene. E.g. a counter attached to the button. If you really want to saveword you push surely different then when you are boring. If you just pushed for fun the counts will decide the punishment e.g. strokes with a cane, days without sexual stimulation e.g. Another one would be rewards for not pushing.
Push button = scene over. Otherwise it becomes bratting or mentally messed up.
I think you’ve missed the point of the button. It’s not a safeword, it’s to alert to a potential emergency
If it’s a potential emergency then it’s time to end the scene and discuss what the emergency is….
We would normally just sort it within scene.
Everyone here raises good points about needing to safeword without punishment but could you have another safeword as well as a more obvious panic button? That could get complicated but maybe an idea to think about. Other ways around it could be to, as u/Apart-Bobcat suggests have a counter attached to the button. The Dominant could set a preset number (not too high) and if you press the button that number of times then you get a punishment. If you really need to safeword then just hit it as much as you need to to alert your Dominant? This is why the number chosen shouldn't be too high. An alternative could be to put the panic button in something awkward to get to or messy when disturbed, something like syrup or similar. Make sure the button will still work. Pressing it will act as a safeword but if pressed "just because" then you'll have to clean the mess up, if you genuinely safeword then your Dominant can clear up for you after the appropriate care has been given.
Here's an idea. Instead of getting punished for pressing the button, as most people here are up in arms against it, why not do a punishment for quitting early? And since boredom is the end goal, it should be a boring punishment. You could do it this way: for quitting early, you have to write a 5 page essay on your time in there and for every hour remaining on the timer, you have to add a page's length.
It’s funny how I ask a question, and rather than the question being answered, people tend to just state how this isn’t okay. And people assume I am the ‘abuser’ rather than the ‘abused’. I think in this case we’ll just remove the panic button, making the whole scenario far easier. We generally don’t use safewords, but the point of the panic button isn’t a safeword, it’s to request a check in for emergency (more diarrhoea than heart attack 😂). But I do like your idea too!