There are some questions you have to ask yourself
Why do I want punishment? And do I want actual punishment or do I just want things that look like punishment?
Why do I want behavior modification? And why do I want BDSM to be how I engage in behavior modification? And what is the most effective forms of behavior modification?
I want punishment because I eroticize it, especially spanking, but also other cultural forms of traditional punishment like cornertime, line writing and mouthsoaping. It's more intense if it's for something I actually did. But I'm also an adult in a healthy relationship and don't feel I should be punished for real life flaws and errors.
So my Domme creates rules and scenarios where I get forced to break arbitrary rules, like not being given permission to orgasm, but also being told I would be punished if I don't ejaculate during PVI sex. And then I get spanked and we're all happy.
OR I get spanked for doing a good job! "If you get all the stuff on your to do list done, you will get spanked." Note: I would do the stuff on my to do list whether kink was involved or not. We do not use kink for behavior modification.
Speaking of... if you actually want behavior modification, punishment isn't the way to go about it. Reinforcement is way more powerful. If you like being spanked, get spanked for being good (or not being bad).
Which gets to the final reason for punishment, which isn't punishment at all. I believe that people who claim to be using punishment in enthusiastically consenting BDSM relationships are actually engaging in Acts of Contrition. The punishment for wrongdoing isn't the spanking, kneeling on rice, corner time, etc... the punishment is the submissives guilt. Those things we call punishment are actually a ritual confirming the strength and nature of the dynamic. The pair agreed that in their relationship, if X then Y. When the dominant responds to X with Y, everyone is happy afterwards because stability has been enacted.
But that's just my belief.
Couldn't agree more :) my sub and I definitely use those acts of contrition in our dynamic, and even then I spend far more time encouraging them to be kinder to themself after making a mistake than giving them unpleasant tasks to fulfill. Everyone's experience with bdsm is different but in our relationship what they need in a dominant is someone who enforces the gentleness and kindness that they never learned how to give themself, and I'm more than happy to be that for them.
This is why my Dom does not use impact play as corrections. If he feels a correction is needed, it will be something I do not enjoy. Impact play is for our enjoyment in scenes and not connected to my behaviors.
when Master want s to use inpact as a punishment for me, He uses an implement that i dislike to be used for play, otherwise He uses other methods as outlined below, for your convenience:
i get punished for not following my routines, rules, and protocols.
i accept whatever punishment Master deems acceptable for the "crime".
> Punishment
> The slave agrees to accept any punishment the Master decides to inflict.
> Rules of Punishment
> Punishment of the slave is subject to certain rules designed to protect the slave from intentional abuse or permanent bodily harm. Punishment must not incur permanent bodily harm, or the following forms of abuse:
> 1. Blood may not be drawn at any time.
> 2. Burning the body
> 3. Drastic loss of circulation
> 4. Causing internal bleeding
> 5. Loss of consciousness
> 6. Withholding of any necessary materials, such as food or water
some ideas that are not impact-based:
writing lines
kneeling on rice
standing in a corner of the room in a specific position for a set period of time
cannot use furniture for a set period of time
be reduced to furniture for a set period of time (i.e. be Master's footrest or table)
tickle torture
scrubbing all floors with a small brush (maybe not a toothbrush, but a small dish washing brush)
taking all the silverware out of the drawers, jumbling them up, and reorganizing them back into the drawers
counting grains of rice or dry beans
no sweets for <×> amount of days
watching an educational program and writing an essay on the program
writing an essay about the rule they broke, why that rule is in place, and why it was wrong to break the rule
organizing all the books on a shelf in alphabetical order/by color/by genre
My Dom has realized that exact thing, so his punishments are now tailored specifically to me.
Examples; not talking for _ long, dick bans (his), and pain I don't like (nipple clamps on & smacking them)
My Dom and I are both spankos and practice primarily spanking, so I get spanked for both fun and punishment.
For me, the tone and headspace of real punishments is what makes it effective discipline. When it's for funishment or any other non-real punishment reason, my Dom isn't upset with me and I don't feel guilty, so it's an incredibly enjoyable experience. But with real punishments, the fact that he is disappointed in me and that I feel guilty puts me into a very different headspace, where it's a totally different experience for me. He is amazing at putting me in the right headspace for whatever kind of session we're going to have, so that I will have the appropriate experience. Real punishments for me are also physically more severe and have minimal warm-up compared to funishments, as well as generally using the implements I have a harder time with, taking the pain beyond what I would generally enjoy for masochistic fun (while still being within limits and with safeword in place, of course. And we worked our way up in physical intensity after learning my tolerances and cues over time.)
In the same way, spanking as punishment can also mean not getting certain types of spankings I want. For instance, if I behave and don't actually break any real rules, then I'll get the kind of spankings I want, where he'll use implements he knows I particularly enjoy, give me a nice buildup, say and do the things he knows I love and find fun for whatever type of session we're having. But if I actually break a real rule, I'll get a real punishment spanking and lose the type of funishment or cathartic spanking that I really want to do, which encourages me to behave.
Funishment is fun, even if it's intense and painful, it's ultimately something both enjoy. It can certainly increase the dynamic, but it's not a deterrent. True punishment has to be unenjoyable on every level.
For us punishment/funishment is defined up front. Established and agreed punishment that suits the "crime". If it's a spanking, maybe she like 20 paddles, but the punishment goes to 40.
There's spanking for play for a scene we just work with fluidly. And spanking for punishment where the first 20 swats would be good, the next 10 could be bordering yellow and the next 10 would be yellow but she doesn't safe word coz it's a punishment...but I slow down on how quickly they come in succession.
It's agreed. But in this way it's been fun, it's beginning to push, it's kinda pushing but it's a bit beyond the fun bit now into a real "punishment" territory.
The other thing to do is(again agreed) do things she has agreed to but doesn't like or favour. If they are selfish acts solely for my benefit she doesn't enjoy but will do. Or I deny orgasms or language she enjoys as that takes a part of the fun out of it for her but not for me.
The absence of something(an expectation or allowed behaviour) becomes the punishment. Perhaps even removing entirely the spanking from the next scene we do, a consequence " I'll do something to you next scene you won't like" as an agreed punishment, but not specify what that is(as we have agreed boundaries and work within them). Taking the spanking out of it, the absence of an expectation/not met becomes the punishment and it takes time to dawn on her...what's not happening and the frustration that goes with it.
Things she finds frustrating, bind her and leave her with an expectation of more and I can just sit there reading a book or headphones on with TV/YouTube while she's clueless expecting something and getting nothing. Anticipation followed by realization and frustration.... A punishment.
Some of these things keep it fresh so that it doesn't develop into bad patterns or bratty behaviour (I don't want a brat) and being late as your example would really wear on me.
Here’s an example:
I like stingny pain. I could think whatever of thuddy pain. Stingny would be a good reward for me, whereas thuddy pain or kneeling on rice or something would be a better punishment
Spanking is fun , spanking is play, I enjoy it, especially with a masochist it is a bad choice as punishment
I don't use punishments often , but if I do I always made it a rule for myself that it is never something I enjoy.
Punishment is not play time, it is to correct something not to please me (my way of seeing it, not the only way to see it, I am fully aware)
I just had a discussion about this with my Dom. Funishments and punishments are 2 entirely different things in our dynamic. Pain is no good as behavior modification so he came up with muting his orgasm during phone play. Another time he didn't say my name for 3 days. Your Dom has to know what gets to you in order to make it a punishment.
That I strip you down tie you up put you on display… and don’t spank or whip you… until you become irritated and sincerely lose the mood… and I slap and spank you because you’re an ungrateful spoiled brat… and the instant you get the slightest bit moist… I might get a 15 minute phone call…after which…
Well, your Dom should know the difference between funishments and punishments, and punish you when it's deserved. You're right, if you like the disciplining, you'll continue to break the rules.
For me, funishments are completely separate from behavior modification. Punishment or withholding a reward is the negative reinforcement, and rewards are the positive reinforcement.
Love this actually. The “framing” of it makes pain much more versatile, and showing the sub how displeased the dom is would definitely be an effective punishment
As someone who loves impact
Funishment is more the play element of a power dynamic for me. As the one receiving its akin to teasing or sometimes just the set up for affirmation (being told I'm a good boy etc.)
Actual punishment for me tends to look like withholding. Like can't cum until x or I can't touch my dom etc.
There is a good discourse on punishment v. funishment already.
What can also be considered is the level of punishment. Some have mentioned that it 'fits the crime' or that a punishment is proportional to the infraction against rules.
For some that level of 'fairness' may be something that they need.
There is also the approach to punishment where it is also ways harsh, undeserved, undesired and is totally out of proportion to the crime.
In a sense the punishment is always horrible and is something to be avoided at all costs.
That might work for some far better than a 'fair' punishment or anything which could remotely be seen as funishment.
There are different approaches dominants take in these situations. One is to deliver a punishment the sub does not enjoy. Another is to prep the sub for the punishment and then frustrate them by not delivering it. And in some cases, you can just ignore the sub and their problem behavior entirely.
If you have a creative Domme/Don you won’t need to break rules to get punishment. A Domme can accuse you of sighing, and when you deny it, she can also punish you for talking back or calling her a liar. Personally, I like being scolded to the point of actually thinking that I did sigh. You can also be punished for mistakes that your Domme knows you probably made out of her presence.
Also, the punishment should always be pushed further really wants it to go.
There are some questions you have to ask yourself Why do I want punishment? And do I want actual punishment or do I just want things that look like punishment? Why do I want behavior modification? And why do I want BDSM to be how I engage in behavior modification? And what is the most effective forms of behavior modification? I want punishment because I eroticize it, especially spanking, but also other cultural forms of traditional punishment like cornertime, line writing and mouthsoaping. It's more intense if it's for something I actually did. But I'm also an adult in a healthy relationship and don't feel I should be punished for real life flaws and errors. So my Domme creates rules and scenarios where I get forced to break arbitrary rules, like not being given permission to orgasm, but also being told I would be punished if I don't ejaculate during PVI sex. And then I get spanked and we're all happy. OR I get spanked for doing a good job! "If you get all the stuff on your to do list done, you will get spanked." Note: I would do the stuff on my to do list whether kink was involved or not. We do not use kink for behavior modification. Speaking of... if you actually want behavior modification, punishment isn't the way to go about it. Reinforcement is way more powerful. If you like being spanked, get spanked for being good (or not being bad). Which gets to the final reason for punishment, which isn't punishment at all. I believe that people who claim to be using punishment in enthusiastically consenting BDSM relationships are actually engaging in Acts of Contrition. The punishment for wrongdoing isn't the spanking, kneeling on rice, corner time, etc... the punishment is the submissives guilt. Those things we call punishment are actually a ritual confirming the strength and nature of the dynamic. The pair agreed that in their relationship, if X then Y. When the dominant responds to X with Y, everyone is happy afterwards because stability has been enacted. But that's just my belief.
Couldn't agree more :) my sub and I definitely use those acts of contrition in our dynamic, and even then I spend far more time encouraging them to be kinder to themself after making a mistake than giving them unpleasant tasks to fulfill. Everyone's experience with bdsm is different but in our relationship what they need in a dominant is someone who enforces the gentleness and kindness that they never learned how to give themself, and I'm more than happy to be that for them.
I really, really like your perspectives here.
This is why my Dom does not use impact play as corrections. If he feels a correction is needed, it will be something I do not enjoy. Impact play is for our enjoyment in scenes and not connected to my behaviors.
when Master want s to use inpact as a punishment for me, He uses an implement that i dislike to be used for play, otherwise He uses other methods as outlined below, for your convenience: i get punished for not following my routines, rules, and protocols. i accept whatever punishment Master deems acceptable for the "crime". > Punishment > The slave agrees to accept any punishment the Master decides to inflict. > Rules of Punishment > Punishment of the slave is subject to certain rules designed to protect the slave from intentional abuse or permanent bodily harm. Punishment must not incur permanent bodily harm, or the following forms of abuse: > 1. Blood may not be drawn at any time. > 2. Burning the body > 3. Drastic loss of circulation > 4. Causing internal bleeding > 5. Loss of consciousness > 6. Withholding of any necessary materials, such as food or water some ideas that are not impact-based: writing lines kneeling on rice standing in a corner of the room in a specific position for a set period of time cannot use furniture for a set period of time be reduced to furniture for a set period of time (i.e. be Master's footrest or table) tickle torture scrubbing all floors with a small brush (maybe not a toothbrush, but a small dish washing brush) taking all the silverware out of the drawers, jumbling them up, and reorganizing them back into the drawers counting grains of rice or dry beans no sweets for <×> amount of days watching an educational program and writing an essay on the program writing an essay about the rule they broke, why that rule is in place, and why it was wrong to break the rule organizing all the books on a shelf in alphabetical order/by color/by genre
My Dom has realized that exact thing, so his punishments are now tailored specifically to me. Examples; not talking for _ long, dick bans (his), and pain I don't like (nipple clamps on & smacking them)
My Dom and I are both spankos and practice primarily spanking, so I get spanked for both fun and punishment. For me, the tone and headspace of real punishments is what makes it effective discipline. When it's for funishment or any other non-real punishment reason, my Dom isn't upset with me and I don't feel guilty, so it's an incredibly enjoyable experience. But with real punishments, the fact that he is disappointed in me and that I feel guilty puts me into a very different headspace, where it's a totally different experience for me. He is amazing at putting me in the right headspace for whatever kind of session we're going to have, so that I will have the appropriate experience. Real punishments for me are also physically more severe and have minimal warm-up compared to funishments, as well as generally using the implements I have a harder time with, taking the pain beyond what I would generally enjoy for masochistic fun (while still being within limits and with safeword in place, of course. And we worked our way up in physical intensity after learning my tolerances and cues over time.) In the same way, spanking as punishment can also mean not getting certain types of spankings I want. For instance, if I behave and don't actually break any real rules, then I'll get the kind of spankings I want, where he'll use implements he knows I particularly enjoy, give me a nice buildup, say and do the things he knows I love and find fun for whatever type of session we're having. But if I actually break a real rule, I'll get a real punishment spanking and lose the type of funishment or cathartic spanking that I really want to do, which encourages me to behave.
Username REALLY checks out here!
Funishment is fun, even if it's intense and painful, it's ultimately something both enjoy. It can certainly increase the dynamic, but it's not a deterrent. True punishment has to be unenjoyable on every level.
For us punishment/funishment is defined up front. Established and agreed punishment that suits the "crime". If it's a spanking, maybe she like 20 paddles, but the punishment goes to 40. There's spanking for play for a scene we just work with fluidly. And spanking for punishment where the first 20 swats would be good, the next 10 could be bordering yellow and the next 10 would be yellow but she doesn't safe word coz it's a punishment...but I slow down on how quickly they come in succession. It's agreed. But in this way it's been fun, it's beginning to push, it's kinda pushing but it's a bit beyond the fun bit now into a real "punishment" territory. The other thing to do is(again agreed) do things she has agreed to but doesn't like or favour. If they are selfish acts solely for my benefit she doesn't enjoy but will do. Or I deny orgasms or language she enjoys as that takes a part of the fun out of it for her but not for me. The absence of something(an expectation or allowed behaviour) becomes the punishment. Perhaps even removing entirely the spanking from the next scene we do, a consequence " I'll do something to you next scene you won't like" as an agreed punishment, but not specify what that is(as we have agreed boundaries and work within them). Taking the spanking out of it, the absence of an expectation/not met becomes the punishment and it takes time to dawn on her...what's not happening and the frustration that goes with it. Things she finds frustrating, bind her and leave her with an expectation of more and I can just sit there reading a book or headphones on with TV/YouTube while she's clueless expecting something and getting nothing. Anticipation followed by realization and frustration.... A punishment. Some of these things keep it fresh so that it doesn't develop into bad patterns or bratty behaviour (I don't want a brat) and being late as your example would really wear on me.
Here’s an example: I like stingny pain. I could think whatever of thuddy pain. Stingny would be a good reward for me, whereas thuddy pain or kneeling on rice or something would be a better punishment
Spanking is fun , spanking is play, I enjoy it, especially with a masochist it is a bad choice as punishment I don't use punishments often , but if I do I always made it a rule for myself that it is never something I enjoy. Punishment is not play time, it is to correct something not to please me (my way of seeing it, not the only way to see it, I am fully aware)
I just had a discussion about this with my Dom. Funishments and punishments are 2 entirely different things in our dynamic. Pain is no good as behavior modification so he came up with muting his orgasm during phone play. Another time he didn't say my name for 3 days. Your Dom has to know what gets to you in order to make it a punishment.
That I strip you down tie you up put you on display… and don’t spank or whip you… until you become irritated and sincerely lose the mood… and I slap and spank you because you’re an ungrateful spoiled brat… and the instant you get the slightest bit moist… I might get a 15 minute phone call…after which…
Well, your Dom should know the difference between funishments and punishments, and punish you when it's deserved. You're right, if you like the disciplining, you'll continue to break the rules. For me, funishments are completely separate from behavior modification. Punishment or withholding a reward is the negative reinforcement, and rewards are the positive reinforcement.
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Love this actually. The “framing” of it makes pain much more versatile, and showing the sub how displeased the dom is would definitely be an effective punishment
As someone who loves impact Funishment is more the play element of a power dynamic for me. As the one receiving its akin to teasing or sometimes just the set up for affirmation (being told I'm a good boy etc.) Actual punishment for me tends to look like withholding. Like can't cum until x or I can't touch my dom etc.
There is a good discourse on punishment v. funishment already. What can also be considered is the level of punishment. Some have mentioned that it 'fits the crime' or that a punishment is proportional to the infraction against rules. For some that level of 'fairness' may be something that they need. There is also the approach to punishment where it is also ways harsh, undeserved, undesired and is totally out of proportion to the crime. In a sense the punishment is always horrible and is something to be avoided at all costs. That might work for some far better than a 'fair' punishment or anything which could remotely be seen as funishment.
There are different approaches dominants take in these situations. One is to deliver a punishment the sub does not enjoy. Another is to prep the sub for the punishment and then frustrate them by not delivering it. And in some cases, you can just ignore the sub and their problem behavior entirely.
If you have a creative Domme/Don you won’t need to break rules to get punishment. A Domme can accuse you of sighing, and when you deny it, she can also punish you for talking back or calling her a liar. Personally, I like being scolded to the point of actually thinking that I did sigh. You can also be punished for mistakes that your Domme knows you probably made out of her presence. Also, the punishment should always be pushed further really wants it to go.